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Chauvin Trial Going to Jury – Legal Insurrection Will Hold Post-Verdict Online Event (Date TBA)

Chauvin Trial Going to Jury – Legal Insurrection Will Hold Post-Verdict Online Event (Date TBA)

We don’t know when the verdict will be rendered, or what it will be. But regardless of outcome, Andrew Branca and I will hold an online event, date TBA. There will be an opportunity for Q&A.

https://youtu.be/lirHz93qJ50

On Monday, April 19, 2021, closing arguments will be held in the prosecution of Derek Chauvin for the in-custody death of George Floyd, and the case then will go to the jury. This is a heads up that after the verdict, Legal Insurrection will hold a post-verdict webinar assessing the outcome and how the case was handled. Andrew Branca and I will be panelists, it’s not clear yet if we will add others. There will be an opportunity for Q&A.

We don’t know when the webinar will be held because we don’t know when the verdict will come down. Once the verdict comes down, no matter what it is, the news and political cycle is going to be furious, but it’s our intention to hold the webinar fairly soon after the verdict.

My thoughts on where the case stands were set forth in two posts:

Andrew may have a post on Sunday as to his thoughts as we head to closings.

For those of you who haven’t been following closely, all of our case posts are at the tag

Here are some of our key posts since the trial started on March 29:

So what do you predict the verdict will be (not what do you want the outcome to be)?

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Comments

This whole thing is sad…there is no good outcome and the actual truth will be devastating…

    judgenot in reply to PaulB. | April 18, 2021 at 6:07 am

    Sad. Sad. Sad. I thought a conviction was the most likely outcome until the last day of testimony. When the prosecution got the good doctor to say GF had a normal blood oxygen level (98%), the whole case for death by smothering was destroyed. Now the most likely verdict, I believe, is a hung jury.

“I ate too many drugs!”

Eggshell Skull | April 17, 2021 at 9:38 pm

Acy don’t you do a pre-verdict assessment?

All will be blathering about how they knew that the jury was going to find that precise verdict.
They will have the excact moments in testimony to prove they knew the verdict all along.

I would be surprised if he gets full acquittal. My odds of a verdict prediction is shaky

But my prediction of what will happen post verdict is high regardless of outcome. Riots and more riots.

Hope for justice and hope for the best, but it looks like Chauvin’s best chance lies years down the road on appeal.

    Subotai Bahadur in reply to maxmillion. | April 17, 2021 at 10:35 pm

    You do realize that if convicted and put into the system pending appeal that he will not live long enough to file any appeals? And that the government of Minneapolis will declare a holiday when he dies.

    I still think that every cop in Minneapolis who can, should quit. There has been plenty of time to look for a job with another agency.

    Subotai Bahadur

      The Friendly Grizzly in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 17, 2021 at 11:39 pm

      I’d not be at all surprised to see him end up in gen-pop, either at the order of the judge, or, more likely, an “oversight”.

      Eggshell Skull in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 18, 2021 at 10:22 am

      Agree. What the cops will do is what every other human does- follow the path of least resistance and target Whites.

      All they are going to do is mumble something about a lawyer.

      Thugs will call them names, fight or even shoot them. Supervisor will ask all kinds of questions, but with Whites they won’t say a thing.

      Even the dimmest cop will realize this sooner or later.

I won’t be surprised by a guilty verdict on some count or other. Not because of the threat of the mob, but because the trial comes down to a battle of experts with theoretical arguments about why Floyd died. While I don’t think the prosecution provided a single, coherent cause of death, I think that a juror may plausibly choose to believe their experts over the defenses’. I don’t know that all 12 will. But I am sure that some will.

    Back when they used to torture people by crushing they could easily survive 400 lbs being put on them in the manner most likely to cause suffocation. Often they would have to call on the crowd to come sit on top of the weights to cause death. One woman survived for 15 minutes with 700 lbs on her. Chauvin did not kill Floyd exerting a few tens of pounds of force with his bony knees. As an engineer I can safely say that Tobin is a delusional lunatic to argue otherwise. There is no way he could come up with anything other than a worst case amount of force which could have been applied. That would be way overestimated more than the actual amount applied. And no one is killed by an “averaged” force anyway as he was implying.

    It is just common sense. If it only took one person’s body weight to positionally asphyxiate someone then sex would have a higher death toll than fentanyl and NFL rosters would turn over several times a season.

i haven’t seen it reported anywhere, but is there a time limit posted anywhere as to how much each side gets for their closing arguments?
I know the judge will spend a considerable amount of time on his instructions.

Minneapolis Public Schools @MPS_News
Derek Chauvin trial will impact MPS operations next week. Distance learning for all Wed-Fri, April 21-23.
https://twitter.com/MPS_News/status/1383143032481005570

Subotai Bahadur | April 17, 2021 at 10:43 pm

Just as a sign of what is coming, I saw this on the 5:00 news. Minneapolis went back to classroom instruction a short time ago. They announced that they are returning to “remote instruction” from Wednesday through Friday, with an option to extend it. In theory it is to protect the kids from being out during riots. Which means they are expecting an early verdict.

This being Leftist Minneapolis, the odds are the real reason is that the teachers intend to participate in the riots and want the kids to be able to join in.

Subotai Bahadur

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 17, 2021 at 11:43 pm

    Want the kids to join in? Or, as an assignment under threat of a failing grade?

    kimd09876 in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 18, 2021 at 9:57 am

    I actually think this is a good idea. I 100% believe there will be riots-either in celebration or anger but we are getting more riots. I wouldn’t want my kid at school or traveling from school to home in this.

    What a sad commentary on the local community. Imagine, local leadership is in effect saying, “look, we can’t handle our emotions and will act out if we don’t get what we want so every one stay home”.

    ConradCA in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 19, 2021 at 6:37 pm

    What do you think would happen if a dozen or so citizens defended themselves and their homes with ARs and 30 round mags. 50 dead and 100 wounded rioters?

He will not be exonerated on all counts. The lynch mob carnival atmosphere, the makeup of the biased jury, and the desire of the unbiased jurors to be able to go back home that night without finding their pets dead and their homes in ashes pretty much guarantees that. The absolute best Chauvin can hope for is a hung jury. I just don’t think he’s going to get it.

The Friendly Grizzly | April 17, 2021 at 11:17 pm

For any of tou who reside in big cities: stock up on food, bottled water, and ammo if you can find it.

Branca’s commentary was so enthralling I donated $100 to LI twice in those two weeks.

I did note that PL commentary on the trial seemed to fade early, presumably because LI was much better by far.

My opinion on the quality of the prosecution is not as generous as that of Professor Jacobson.

I think you guys are too pessimistic. I think he’s either getting acquitted on 2nd degree murder and getting convicted on manslaughter or hung jury on all counts.

If I was a jury member, I would vote not guilty since the defense has offered reasonable doubt on all three charges. But, of course, this is a special case where reason and evidence are not of primary consideration, and exploring one’s political biases and being scared of punks are of higher consideration.

    oogabooga in reply to oogabooga. | April 18, 2021 at 12:18 am

    *exploiting

      elliesmom in reply to oogabooga. | April 18, 2021 at 7:25 am

      After the Zimmerman trial I have a little more faith in juries. I’m not sure all 12 of the jurors will be brave enough to do the right thing, but I think some of them are. Acquittal or hung jury.

    kimd09876 in reply to oogabooga. | April 18, 2021 at 10:02 am

    I tend to agree. Too much doubt introduced for the 2nd degree murder, but I think the jury may split the baby and go for manslaughter in hopes of avoiding the riots and doxing (no way those two things aren’t in the backs of their minds).

    Reading the commentary here-if I’m an honest juror I don’t think the state proved its case to a reasonable doubt on any of the charges. I think the state may have proved the manslaughter had they only sought that charge but I feel like not one bit of evidence was introduced to prove this one.

The progressives must have their show trials. Excuses must be defended for certain minorities ….soft bigotry and to reinforce the “care” of the Party.. The officer wasn’t big enough to stop Floyd’s breathing….it would take several hundreds of more pounds of weight. Floyd tried the same ingestion trick but overdosed. The Left MUST justify the 2020 violence. Cops must be made to fear the State and its mobs. …just like so many others now. So sad for the cop…and the Nation.

Maxine Waters came to town demanding people take to the streets if Chauvin is found not guilty.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1383635117147451417

Nutty Maxine even called for the abolition of law enforcement.

https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1383626850312757261/photo/1

    WillS68 in reply to paralegal. | April 18, 2021 at 10:22 am

    I believe Officer Chauvin will be convicted on one of the charges. I don’t believe the jury can withstand the political and social pressure. I don’t believe Officer Chauvin is responsible for Mr. Floyd’s death but I don’t think the truth matters.

      They will get him on the lowest charge, and then there is a good chance that will be thrown out due to the Supreme Court in MN restoring that particular law to its previous interpretation.

smalltownoklahoman | April 18, 2021 at 7:32 am

I’m hoping for an acquittal but I don’t know. Like others have pointed out the city is likely going to explode either way but it will be worse if they don’t get at least something to stick. I just hope that the members of the jury who vote not guilty are able to get to somewhere safe for a while after the trial!

In that photo, it doesn’t look like Chauvin’s knee is fitting into that space between the bottom of Floyd’s head and the top his shoulders. It looks like Floyd’s shoulders are too scrunched up to let that knee crush him.

I’m sure the jurors are all acutely aware of the mob waiting outside the door to punish them for the wrong verdict. It is unconscionable the judge allowed this trial to go forward in this jurisdiction.

Deliberate like nobody’s watching.

George Floyd is just one “rally point” in a never ending succession of names to keep the protest cycle going. Derek Chauvin has just about out-lived his usefulness and the catalyst for protests will soon be ebbing and waning and it will be time for a fresh stimulus of “police violence against blacks” to keep the cycle moving forward.

I have no idea what the jury will do, but from where I’ve been watching, the Cause of Death was never determined with definitive proof by anyone. It’s only been postulated by medical experts, only one of which physically examined the body of GF, and his medical opinion was death was caused by a combination of factors.

The instructions to the jury will be key, no doubt about it. In my view, the two murder charges should require the jury to find DC’s actions being the primary cause of death; if they cannot so find, then only the manslaughter charge would be in play.

Unfortunately, I think there will be enough jurors arguing they must convict on at least one of the charges to satisfy their obligations as jurors. Not that the evidence warrants conviction but that political pressure demands it. Unless there are several jurors willing to base their decision on the evidence alone, a conviction on at least one charge will be returned, not as genuine justice but a political compromise.

Nice left wing narrative perpetuating pic !!

I think this one is hard to predict because of the political influence. Every juror knows two things. There might be riots and if they give the wrong verdict the left will likely fix them. Even Maxine Waters has advocated this. I think these two things may make a fair jury impossible.

As for the case-I think the defense used the states own witnesses to introduce doubt for the murder charges. There just isn’t enough evidence to a degree of beyond reasonable doubt to get an honest conviction.

Manslaughter is possible, but I didn’t see the prosecution introduce much evidence for this charge. I assume the charging instructions will cover this issue.

I think manslaughter is the baby splitting conviction, but I think this one still gets riots (I actually think there will be riots no matter what).

I think they vote Manslaughter or get hung, but in this climate anything is possible.

Also, thank you Andrew Branca for taking your own time to cover this trial with such detail. I really appreciate it.

This is a communist takeover, they need chaos and violence to cover for it.

I think people are selling the intelligent jurors short.

the low IQ jurors who just want a pound of flesh have been lost as soon they were impaneled.

however, the other jurors may think about what kinda police force they will end up with for sacrificing an obviously innocent officer for a some temporary peace

LongTimeReader | April 18, 2021 at 10:55 am

I am sure Blackwell will do the closing and I am going to mentally drink every time I hear “subdual, restraint and compression”.

This trial should have been moved. I agree with Cahill’s reasoning that you wouldn’t be able to find anywhere that hasn’t heard of it but I think moving it to somewhere that hasn’t been gutted by riots would have been more appropriate. How many jurors have been effected in some personal way by the damage already? A new wave of riots may cost one of their relatives/neigbors/friends their life or livleyhood. There is no way to put that out of your mind in this case.

    alohahola in reply to LongTimeReader. | April 18, 2021 at 11:13 am

    Sounds like mob’s ruling no matter how you slice it.

    kimd09876 in reply to LongTimeReader. | April 18, 2021 at 12:42 pm

    Good point and I agree. Sure finding a jury without knowledge would be impossible, but everyone of them knows in the back of their head that their community may get destroyed even more if they choose wrongly. That shouldn’t be a concern but it will.

    Jay Guevara in reply to LongTimeReader. | April 18, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    On its face, denying a change of venue was unconsionable.

    I suspect that the state (in the person of Keith Ellison, and perhaps Cahill too) wanted the trial in Minneapolis because (at least in 2016) geographically most of Minnesota voted Republican, so moving the trial outside of Minneapolis might make it especially difficult to convict Chauvin.

    http://www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/senmap.png

the state is the picador while the US DOJ will play the part of the matador

Ill be there boss!

I don’t think the prosecution has proved murder beyond reasonable doubt, but does that really matter? I wonder if it will come down to whether the jurors blame Chauvin for the 9 minutes or whether they blame GF for taking drugs/resisting arrest because they have been given scenarios for either as cause of death. Nelson wanted to introduce as much context as possible to shift the focus onto GF’s actions prior to. Which type of juror would be susceptible to that type of argument? Does Nelson have to make the case that the officers were actually trying to help Floyd by calling paramedics and restraining him until they got there? So many have read so much about Chauvin’s evil nature into the video and his not testifying leaves those ideas intact, but could anything he said overcome that mindset if that was what jurors already believed?

    stogiefan1953 in reply to Samantha. | April 18, 2021 at 12:41 pm

    I don’t believe it would’ve mattered if Chauvin testified or not; the poisoned atmosphere of the city and real threats of violence against jurors make it impossible for an acquittal or a hung jury.

    Merkify in reply to Samantha. | April 18, 2021 at 2:52 pm

    Too much reasonable doubt, If the knee dont fit, you must acquit.

the judge coulda had the closing arguments on Friday and then sequestered the jury over the weekend

but Cahill wanted the jury to get a good dose of BLM reprisals

The tank inventors had Cahill in mind when they were inventing the tank

After Maxine pulled her stunt, a mistrial should be called and she should be indicted for jury tampering. It probably would be denied, but I would put in a motion for mistrial before doing anything else.

    buck61 in reply to lhw. | April 18, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    the state would love a mistrial, Nelson poked so many holes in their case that the extra time would give them plenty of time to address them. The state is going to spend as much money as it takes to convict Chauvin.

Maxine Waters tells Minnesota BLM protesters ‘to get more confrontational’ one day after violent anti-police clashes erupted across US

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9483471/Fury-Maxine-Waters-tells-Minnesota-BLM-protesters-weve-got-confrontational.html

Someone did a drive by shooting on National Guard troops shortly after Maxine Water’s incitement.

https://twitter.com/MNNationalGuard/status/1383808422190059541

Don’t you think it’s odd that the two Presidents in the WH are law and order people.
94 Crime Bill Biden
AG Harris who locked blacks up for smoking pot, put them in Diane Feinstein for profit prisons and kept them in beyond their sentences
Because when the Marxist military boot comes down the useful idiots who helped them (liberals) are the first to turn against the system once they find out what it really is.
Then the boot on the neck, as it always is and they are to ignorant to look at history. No dissention is allowed whatsoever in that system.

Watching much of the trial tells me it should be acquittal or hung jury.

My head tells me the pressure will be enormous for guilty and they settle on the manslaughter charge.

I can see that being overturned on appeal.

The said part is that the appeasement of a manslaughter conviction won’t work. The mob will still riot.

I suspect like oJ facts are going to have no bearing on outcome.
Sadly I am expecting the city will get it’s pound of flesh.

    stogiefan1953 in reply to Skip. | April 18, 2021 at 9:04 pm

    Yes, that pound of flesh will come with burned-down businesses and innocent civilians assaulted and murdered in their own homes.

stogiefan1953 | April 18, 2021 at 9:06 pm

As usual, the main stream media has shown it’s total and consummate ignorance in reporting events during this trial. Fair and balanced reporting are an impossibility with them. The likes of Walter Cronkite and Tim Russert must be spinning in their graves.

The public cannot even expect the bare minimum of ‘balanced reporting’ anymore.

He shouldn’t have even been charged. NONE of the charges apply to him.

It wasn’t a drive-by shooting,
Chauvin didn’t have a protective order against him.
It didn’t happen during the commission of a felony.
Chauvin wasn’t the one that sold him the drugs that killed him.
Floyd wasn’t a minor.
Chauvin wasn’t “perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life”.
Chauvin didn’t shoot him thinking he was a deer, set a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device.
He didn’t use a violent animal to kill Floyd.
Floyd didn’t die from child neglect.

That covers everything except third degree assault. That law states “Subdivision 1. Substantial bodily harm. — Whoever assaults another and inflicts substantial bodily harm may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $ 10,000, or both.”

Did Chauvin “assault” Floyd in the legal sense of the word?

Nope, nope, nope

I didn’t see the defense play the drug overdose, 3x fatal dose, caused the respiratory system to shut down and the hat was what killed GF as a defense.

I think it’ll be a hung jury.

Those who vote to aquit will refuse to be intimidated into convicting an innocent man, and those who vote guilty will do so because they truly consider Chauvin guilty.

I don’t think the intimidation will really have an effect, assuming the jurors are even aware of it.

There is a verdict. I’m guessing guilty if it was this quick.

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