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Alternative Suggestions Roll in for Privileged Politicians, Celebrities Who Want to ‘Defund the Police’

Alternative Suggestions Roll in for Privileged Politicians, Celebrities Who Want to ‘Defund the Police’

“Why don’t you folks simply ‘opt out’ from police protection? You could all send notarized letters to your local departments that you no longer wish to participate,” tweeted conservative actor James Woods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9MswDmSWpY

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey (D) found out Saturday what it’s like to be canceled when you don’t completely bow to the demands of militant far left activist groups on issues like defunding the police.

But it’s not just radical left-wing movements like Black Lives Matter who are calling for defunding the police.

Privileged “progressive” celebrities like John Legend and Natalie Portman and some Democratic politicians are on board the with the idea, including “Squad” Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI). Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) has called for “fully dismantl[ing] these systems of oppression,” which is the equivalent of calling for abolishing police departments.

As the usual suspects demand such radical actions be taken, those who support law enforcement are proposing alternative suggestions to defunding the police, like actor James Woods, a Trump supporter who is known for not mincing words. Here’s what Woods suggested after Brian Fallon, a former spokesman for Hillary Clinton’s failed 2016 presidential campaign, tweeted “defund the police”:

Prior to his work for Hillary Clinton’s campaign, Fallon was the Dept. of Justice’s director of public affairs under President Obama’s U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, and before that he was the chief spokesman for Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY)

Woods also didn’t spare AOC from criticism:

Conservative radio talk show host Mark Levin went even further, reminding people who may be on the fence about defunding the police of what this will look like in reality if radical activists get their way:

Fox News’s Greg Gutfeld said celebrities who signed on to the letter calling for police to be defunded should have their calls to 911 blocked and for their security details to not be allowed to purchase firearms, so they would be in the same position as everyone else who could no longer call the police and who otherwise may not be able to afford firearms for personal protection:

“If you want to defund the police, go for it,” he said. “[For] any celebrity who endorses it, 911 should block their number. And every gun dealer should never sell a gun to someone who wants to defund the police because what they are doing when purchasing a weapon is getting security for themselves — while denying it from you.”

[…]

Gutfeld noted that many liberals are against police until they need them, and pointed to former ESPN reporter Chris Palmer, who had tweeted “burn it all down” as a caption to an image of a blaze during violence in Minneapolis, but later expressed outrage when violence erupted near his California community.

“See the shift? Everybody can talk about and wax romantic about the ‘movement’ and how we need ‘systemic change’, because it means nothing until they get to your door — and then it all goes out the window,” Gutfeld said.

Actor Dean Cain amplified the point about celebrity hypocrisy on Fox News Saturday:

“Of course, they’re hiring former officers as their security because that’s it. Because they want to be safe. ‘These rules apply to me, not to you.’ They can afford it and most of the people out there can’t,” he remarked.

Though the movement to defund the police is gaining traction on the far left in the aftermath of the death of George Floyd, there appears to be disagreement on the issue even in the Congressional Black Caucus. Chairwoman Karen Bass (D-CA) has stopped short of a nationwide call to defund the police, though a package of “reform bills” related to police accountability are in the works and could be passed in the Democratic House later this month.

— Stacey Matthews has also written under the pseudonym “Sister Toldjah” and can be reached via Twitter. —

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Comments

2smartforlibs | June 7, 2020 at 4:11 pm

4 minority women in powerful position Bitching about White Privilege. Might want0o check with he guy that didn’t get into college on Affirmative action or quotas and had to take a job doing whatever he could to feed his family. IF your talking Privalge supremacy whatever the word of the day is and the DNC isn’t in that conversation you’re too low IQ to speak.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to 2smartforlibs. | June 7, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    Mark Higgie
    @MarkHiggie1

    The ‘panoply of untruths and half-truths that have been pumped through our society all but unopposed to persuade people to believe that the least racist societies on earth are in fact the most racist.’ –
    @douglaskmurray

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHiggie1/status/1269530416186343425

    Amazing that these 4 ignoramuses are where they are, and are so proiminent in American politics.

    But then America as we knew it, is no more. We need to wake up to that fact.

    Soros and the ChiComms own America, and are passing it along to other billionaires and foreign fascists who have zero allegiance to us as Americans.

    There are things we can do about it, but nothing less than either civil war or breaking the country up. I opt for the latter, before it’s too late.

    ConradCA in reply to 2smartforlibs. | June 8, 2020 at 12:27 am

    Simple change that will end police brutality against blacks would be for them to reject the ghetto gangster culture and become productive members of society.

    Blacks would have to value their children and families. They would have to value education. They would have to value work over welfare. They would have to value integrity, honesty and respect for the law.

    Honest people generally don’t have problems with the police and this would generally end police brutality.

amatuerwrangler | June 7, 2020 at 4:33 pm

It’s time to dust off those 1960s bumper stickers: “If you don’t like the police, the next time you’re mugged, call a hippie.”

    Merely hypothetical, and just for fun, here’s a scenario: I live in a rural county. If the local and county police are curtailed or eliminated, folks will become VERY polite. Who will the lefties call to report crimes? The 911 folks will tell them, “fire and medical only.” Who will investigate missing criminals who have disappeared after crossing my property line? The DA’s office will have nobody to dispatch or prosecute. Everyone (in Oregon) has the legal right to defend their property, family and others who are in danger of life-threatening force. There will be no legal recourse for criminals, or any sjw’s seeking “justice.”
    I, for one, desperately desire that the lefties force this scenario on an armed and pissed off citizenry. Criminals, and therefore, crime will suddenly cease to exist.
    The lefty cities will devolve into chaos, mayhem and Darwinian stupidity. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to amatuerwrangler. | June 7, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    Hippies don’t arrest people for windsurfing. They don’t arrest bsrbers for making a living.

      Interesting that you say that. We’ve very recently watched as police enforced unconstitutional government edicts during the (now obviously political) Wuhan flu shut down. The majority of the police are not our friends or allies. They have tarnished their brand as selfless defenders of the innocent and enforcers of law.

      And now they need our support.

      They can go pound sand. Where was there support for the Constitution and the constitutions of their states? (You know, the “law” they’re actually sworn to support.) Where was their support for the right of citizens to do nothing more than earn a living for the sustenance of their lives and the lives of their families? Where was the resistance to the harassment and arrest of people who committed no crimes? I can count on one hand the number of cops who actually spoke out against government overreach and the corruption of police into tools of petty tyrants. Want to know if police will confiscate firearms when ordered to do so? Now we know. Are the capable of worse? Almost certainly. (Do we want to find out?) Cops did this to themselves just before, unbeknownst to them, a time when they could most use our support.

      Nuts to that. Decades of good will built up with law-abiding citizens down the drain. For what? It doesn’t matter. They have revealed themselves as traitors to America, even those whose only fault was the failure to speak up, or to walk away. They aren’t our friends, they cannot be trusted. At best they are temporary allies, on our side today and feckless tomorrow. They’ve demonstrated that. Let’s not forget.

        Mac45 in reply to DaveGinOly. | June 8, 2020 at 12:49 pm

        Well, Dave, most jurisdictions actually have the legal power to place certain restrictions upon the use of public spaces and on certain business practices during bono fide crisis. And, the police do have an obligation to enforce the laws which apply in those situations. When those restrictions seem to be illogical and capricious, then most LEOs attempt to find a work around. They often ask for voluntary compliance. They may inform their superiors that they do not believe that a violation exists and refuse to cite or arrest. But, if the political leadership wants to pursue the matter, then some LEO, somewhere, can be found to follow the politician’s bidding. Technically, a LEO does not have the authority to refuse to enforce a constitutional law, even if he does not like it or agree with it. He can resign or refuse and be terminated. But, he can not simply decide, on his own, which laws he will and will not enforce.

The MSM/DNC axis doesn’t want to defund the police. They want to change the personnel to Antifa/BLM types and alter the mission. This new police force would be primarily concern with rooting out and punishing “racism” (read: political crimes).

The same Antifa and BLM brownshirts who have been raping, murdering and looting may very soon have badges and the full backing of the State.

They all have security details that carry firearms (OMG). Is it time for them to go>

Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) – Just married one of her staff, he is white and not her brother. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) – Has a white live-in boyfriend. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) – divorced from Fayez Tlaib 5 years ago. Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) – married to convicted felon Conan Harris.

Amazing what these “strong” women of color prefer in their personal life.

    DaveGinOly in reply to Tsquared. | June 8, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Someone in CA should start an initiative that would prohibit the hiring and/or use of armed security by individuals and communities, and that would criminalize the carrying of firearms by any security personnel detailed to the protection of private citizens or communities (to prevent the rich from incorporating and hiring “corporate” bodyguards). (This will leave intact the right of individuals, such as it still exists in CA, to bear arms for their own protection and the protection of their families.)

    I’m sure you get the idea. I’ll leave it to attorneys to figure it out the specific language.

      DaveGinOly in reply to DaveGinOly. | June 8, 2020 at 11:54 am

      Better yet, have some constituents write to a progressive state rep and convince him or her that armed private security is racist. (And how difficult would that be?) There will be a bill up for consideration in days. It will sail through the process and be signed by Newsom with great ceremony.

Dantzig93101 | June 7, 2020 at 4:55 pm

And all the wealthy leftists should defund their private security. Then they can throw open the gates of their gated communities.

And then, as they say in Hollywood, “that’s entertainment!” I would gladly pay $15 a ticket to watch the festivities. No CGI required.

How will the upper elite classes prevail unless the prols are constantly in fear and insecure?

Crime Reduction:
1) Reduce police force so less crimes are investigated
2) Redefine crimes to lesser levels for those arrested
3) Reduce penalties for criminals found guilty

This is how crime will be reduced. Pretty soon, no one reports the crime because nothing happens. Unreported crimes “never happened”.

As an aside, those who watch Chef John with Food Wishes knows he was demanded to make a statement about BLM. Taking a knee is now mandatory rather than voluntary. Which is how the Left likes it. It’s now a pledge of allegiance to the State…. demanding that we touch the Blutfahne as we kneel.

Look at the lineup in that photo.

19th Amendment. Beginning of the end.

I don’t say this to be annoying (well, not solely to be annoying). It was probably America’s greatest disaster, perhaps—in some divine plan—to make up for the fact that the country has few really big and badly-behaved volcanos.

I just had trouble driving through downtown because of some stupid Support BLM march. Mine is usually a nice dull town, and damn, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen so many brainless women in one place. Most with signs, of course, in case anybody had trouble identifying the dumbest of them.

    It’s not women who are the problem, but crazy women.
    And it’s not men who are the problem, but beta men.

    The corruption of our schools gave rise to brainwashing of women – usually by crazy fat lesbians – into becoming crazy.

    We need a 28th Amendment which governs our schools, and forbids any advocacy of socialism or communism or the like. Of course it’ll never happen, but maybe we need nation split off from the hell-hole the UnUnited States has become, which if we all go to it and get a leadership like Trumps – and a Consitution updated to close the ridiculous holes in it – we can go on with an American way of life.

    randian in reply to tom_swift. | June 7, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    17th Amendment (direct election of Senators) was arguably as bad.

      gospace in reply to randian. | June 8, 2020 at 3:22 am

      Baker vs Carr was at least as bad.

      tom_swift in reply to randian. | June 8, 2020 at 10:00 am

      The original, Constitutional way to pick Senators wasn’t all that hot, either. Even before the Amendment, southern states still managed to send reliably pro-slavery Senators to Washington, and we all know how well that worked out.

        DaveGinOly in reply to tom_swift. | June 8, 2020 at 11:46 am

        The 17th Amendment was the death knell of the Republic. Half of our federal regulatory and administrative state wouldn’t exist if senators were still appointed as representatives of the States (as nominally sovereign geopolitical entities) in Congress. A popularly-elected Senate negates the usefulness of a bicameral legislature – both houses are representing the same constituents and identical interests. The entire point of a bicameral Congress was to split its interests between the (democratic) popular will and (republican) sentiment of restraint. That “restraint” is now largely missing, and the bicameral Congress we now have only sometimes has usefulness – when its houses are controlled by opposing parties. The old Senate was always controlled by an opposing party, the party standing for states’ rights.

        As for your particular comment about slavery – Do you really think that anti-slavery senators could have been elected in the Old South? How anti-slavery were the Old South’s congressional representatives? Not to, I’d imagine.

Better still, these celebrities who wish to do away with police protection could post on their front lawns, or on the gates to their walled mansions, signs indicating that their property is a “POLICE FREE ZONE”.

    Never happen. They’re too useful to the swamp/left/islamic axis.

    On the other hand, when all hell breaks loose, we can visit the homes of these people personally, and thank them in our own special way.

    fscarn in reply to JohnG. | June 7, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    Other signs,

    “Hassle-free looting”

    “Gun-free zone”

    “Safe space”

If there’s somethin’ strange in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!) Cue intercept operator:doo-doo-doo. We are sorry. You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number and try your call again

Sound clip 😉

    Katy L. Stamper in reply to MrE. | June 7, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    Thanks for the site reference! Might be useful!

    tom_swift in reply to MrE. | June 8, 2020 at 10:02 am

    For heightened realism, you need some Spanish in there before the recording gets to the useful stuff.

      henrybowman in reply to tom_swift. | June 8, 2020 at 9:45 pm

      I have called 911 once in my life. It was to report that a rental property of mine was on fire.

      I was subjected to an overlong recorded tirade concerning under what circumstances I should and should not dial 911. I waited it out.

      Then I was subjected to the same overly long diatribe, but in Spanish.

      After that, I was subjected to the same overly long harangue, but in TTY tones for the deaf.

      Then I was put on hold.

      I was able to drive myself to the FD substation and report the fire in person just prior to a 911 operator finally picking up my call.

Defunding the police is not going to happen. Not in more than one initial and predictable failed attempt anyway.

There are reforms that should be made, here are a few.

1. Limit qualified immunity for LEO to those LEO acting in accordance with their agencies training and policy.

2. Create and empower precinct level civilian review boards.

3. Civil service protection limited to no retaliatory or politically motivated firings; new chief or mayor can’t fire without cause. Can fire with cause.

4. Union bargaining and representation limited to pay rates, vacation days, sick days or military service days. Nothing else.

5. Complete transparency of all disciplinary proceedings and records. Proven disciplinary action maintained in a publicly accessible national database.

6. End the use of any neck restraint. Increase training in use of baton for compliance strikes. Educate public on this use.

7. Budget review. How much overtime is too much? More dual car patrols, perhaps all. Right size the PD to the level required to meet the needs and expectations of the community.

Not a complete list by any stretch. Just my opinion.

    cktheman in reply to CommoChief. | June 7, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    8. No perverse incentives. Eliminate civil asset forfeiture proceeds going to the police department (actually, it needs to be eliminated altogether without a criminal conviction, but that’s another topic).

      LibraryGryffon in reply to cktheman. | June 7, 2020 at 6:01 pm

      9. Eliminate no-knock warrants.

        healthguyfsu in reply to LibraryGryffon. | June 7, 2020 at 11:17 pm

        It seems to me that No-knock warrants have plenty of purpose against high risk targets.

          Barry in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 8, 2020 at 8:04 am

          It seems to me there are almost always alternatives to no knock warrants.

          henrybowman in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 8, 2020 at 9:50 pm

          Darryl Gates promised us this when he invented SWAT. Now it’s used for 4AM raids on suspected drug homes, only it’s routinely the wrong address, the police are in plainclothes, and they get shot at by innocent homeowners before they ice them all.

          No. You lied to us, now you lose your new toys.

      randian in reply to cktheman. | June 7, 2020 at 9:00 pm

      Eliminate another perverse incentive: applying the felony murder rule to the target when a cop fires their gun and hits the wrong person. If a civilian does that they get a manslaughter charge. There’s a reason why you often see ridiculous shot counts in officer involved shootings: you don’t need to be careful if the person you’re shooting at takes the penalty for your errors.

    Where some of the concern for a cuffed prisoner is they might run, why can’t they be ankle-cuffed as well? Or cuffs be tethered to the police vehicle or some other immovable object? Once cuffed and tethered, back off and let them struggle – if they hurt themselves, that’s the price SJW types have cost the prisoner.

      CommoChief in reply to MrE. | June 7, 2020 at 6:44 pm

      Maybe the LEO could simply apply pressure to the prisoners crossed ankles and bent knees with the prisoner in the prone? Call for additional LEO to assist? In the case of MR Floyd, four sworn LEO are unable to achieve compliance without the man dying, the training and tactics are in question.

      Look, when the LEO tells someone they are under arrest, that person is going to jail, period. However, there are limits to the use of force to achieve compliance. Since neck restraint is no longer tolerable then compliance strikes, tasers, mace and come along holds are what is left. All have their downside. The goal is the application of the least use of force to effect the arrest. Not to directly or indirectly injure someone. The days of LEO ‘playing catch up’ are over.

        drednicolson in reply to CommoChief. | June 7, 2020 at 7:43 pm

        You underestimate the effects of the drugs in Floyd’s system. Nearly impervious to pain from fentanyl intoxication and overstimulated muscles from methamphetamine. Those four officers were barely restraining a suspect with superhuman strength and pain tolerance.

          CommoChief in reply to drednicolson. | June 7, 2020 at 9:00 pm

          drednicolson,

          Oh ok. Please list the injuries sustained by the four LEO in the encounter with MR Floyd, who died. Your statement implies there was some violent confrontation in which four LEO almost got their ass kicked. I haven’t seen that.

          I don’t believe those four intended to kill Floyd, they did continue to utilize a method of neck restraint for nearly nine minutes. At the conclusion of which Floyd died.

    Chaos will reign.

    It’ll be New York City during the 70s, which inspired such movies as “Death Wish”.

If they had just followed through on their claim that they were moving out of the country after Trump was elected they would have nothing to worry about.

Conservative Beaner | June 7, 2020 at 6:21 pm

Why stop with defunding the police.

Defund jails. Simply start vigilante justice and there will be no need for jails or prisons.

No Cops, no jails means we have no need for judges. Vigilante justice will act as judge, jury and executioner. Civil trials will be decided by combat.

Since there is vigilante law, defund local and state governments. Hell eliminate all government.

/sarc

Minneapolis will show Chicago and Baltimore how to run up the statistics.

Not to worry. Utopia will emerge from the ashes. Right?

Elections do matter.

    More likely the statistics will be fudged to show that crime decreased, like the Soviets’ Five Year Plans always succeed while millions lived in squalor or died of hunger. If a crime is not recorded then it never happened, or so the communists believe.

    henrybowman in reply to TX-rifraph. | June 8, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    Explain to me how these elections mattered:

    The current Mayor of Minneapolis is Jacob Frey. He won the office in 2017 in a free for all among 17 candidates, of whom 10 were from the Democrat-Farmer-Labor Party and not one was a Republican. The candidates competed as to who was the farthest left. Frey out-lefted them all. His big issues were “climate change,” affordable housing, and, yes, reforming the police.

    The last Republican Mayor of Minneapolis was Richard Erdall, who served for one day in 1973. Prior to Erdall, the previous Republican Mayor was Kenneth Peterson, who left office in 1961.

    The City Council consists of 13 members, of whom 12 are members of the DFL (Democratic) Party, and one is a member of the Green Party. There are no Republicans.

    The federal Congressperson is Ilhan Omar: far-left Democrat, Muslim, immigrant from Somalia, and member of “the squad.” Omar won her seat in 2018 by a margin of 78-22 over her Republican opponent.

    The Governor (Tim Walz) and both U.S. Senators (Amy Klobuchar and Tina Smith) are all Democrats.

    Minnesota’s chief law enforcement officer is Attorney General Keith Ellison, a Democrat of the radical left variety, an African American and a Muslim, who previously held Omar’s Minneapolis Congressional seat for 12 years, and who has recently been Deputy Chair of the Democratic National Committee.

    The police commissioner in Minneapolis is a mayoral appointee. The current commissioner, Medaria Arradondo, an African American, has been in office since 2017.

    (Excerpted from manhattancontrarian.com, June 2.)

    One problem with that theory. What do the denizens of deep blue hellholes like NYC and Minneapolis hate more: Trump or having their loved ones raped, robbed or murdered? Methinks the former is the most hated, and the latter is somehow miraculously the fault of “white nationalist MAGA goons”.

Mayor/City Council: “So let me get this straight; to persuade me to disband the police department and prove you can live together peaceably under your own recognizance, you have resorted to incitement, insurrection, rioting, assault and battery, vandalism, destruction of property, arson, robbery, theft, looting, and murder?”

Protesters: Fo’ shizzle!

We all know who will be harmed by urban centers defunding police. At this point who f.cking cares.

Look, these people do not want to defund police. They simply want to replace the existing LEAs with their own sycophantic organizations. Anyone remember Robocop 3?

Obama wanted his private Civilian National Security Force? Remember that? Why would a leader want that, rather than the existing police forces? Because by and large, existing LEAs and LEOs do a pretty good job of enforcing the law in a neutral fashion. But, some of our leaders do not want that. They want a force that will enforce laws in any arbitrary and capricious manner that the leaders wish. Look at the actions of the FBI re: Trump? How about the debacle surrounding the Zimmerman case and the Chauvin case, with hand picked prosecutors who file charges without decent evidence; or despite evidence of innocence?

No, defunding the police will not eliminate law enforcement. It will simply replace the current LEAs with something else. This is how the Geheime Staatspolizei [Gestapo] got its start.

    Barry in reply to Mac45. | June 7, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    Exactly. What they desire is to arrest their political opponents and reward their law breaking supporters.

The police do not exist to protect me. They exist to protect the criminals from me.

No police force just means we do the job ourselves, judge – jury – executioner.

But that’s not what they want, they want a “new” police force that responds only to their political power brokerage.

There were no police in the early days of this country. The citizens took care of it all, two legged or four. here in the Carolina’s we used to have a predator called a panther – big nasty mean cat. They are all gone now because we killed every damn one of them.

    Mac45 in reply to Barry. | June 8, 2020 at 12:09 am

    There us a reason why societies establish bodies to daft and pass laws, agencies to enforce these laws, equally and fairly, and courts to decide guilt and innocence. It is to lessen the chances of an innocent person being punished for a crime he did not commit.

    Use of force in self defense or defense of another from unlawful or unwarranted physical attack is a long standing and very good tradition in common law. Vigilante justice is not. It is frowned upon. It is exactly what the rioters and looters are doing.

      tom_swift in reply to Mac45. | June 8, 2020 at 10:09 am

      Societies also realize that rough justice is better than no justice at all.

      When government fails—for whatever reason—something else will fill the vacuum.

        Mac45 in reply to tom_swift. | June 8, 2020 at 11:53 am

        That is correct. The first thing that any society does is institute the three things which I listed in the above post. The term “rough justice” is vacant of any true meaning. When individuals and minority groups get to make up their own laws, enforce them and punish people for violating them, without the consent of a majority of the people in the society, everything breaks down. You end up with violent warfare designed to eliminate this problem and institute an overarching system of justice.

        What you are advocating is revolution. That is fine. But, revolution is not necessarily justice. What we are seeing is very interesting. Those currently in power are using those who want to increase their power against society in order to maintain the level of power currently enjoyed by those currently in power. The demonstrators are being used to eliminate the current power structure’s rival, populism. The revolution started in 2014, with populism making inroads with the general population. And, it was international in scope. Trumps was not a Republican President, but a populist one. And, being wealthy and not a politician, he was hugely successful.Since before he was elected, he has been the target of every member of the Global Elite and all of their lackeys. He has no supporters in government. His only support comes from the populace. If he is reelected, the Elite Establishment fears that they will lose their control of society to the populace. As all efforts to unseat Trump, using the normal weapons of society, have failed, they are now attacking Trump’s base, the populace using violence. And, this is not restricted to the US. This is an international operation, just like the draconian response to COVID. This is not a mass of people upset over the death of a convicted felon, in police custody for another felony, who was a literal walking illicit pharmacy. It is all about power; maintaining it or gaining it. Justice does not enter into it.

      DaveGinOly in reply to Mac45. | June 8, 2020 at 12:16 pm

      “daft” laws
      You got that right!

healthguyfsu | June 7, 2020 at 11:58 pm

Anyone ever see the movie Doomsday in 2008?

The quarantine zone from that movie is my suggestion.

Give all of the people that want to police themselves and live in a law-free zone their own zone of the country. They can do whatever the eff they want and never worry about police brutality. I don’t think any lives would matter too much in this hypothetical quarantine zone, though.

Ending police brutality against blacks is easy for the to achieve. All they have to do is stop being criminals. Start respecting the law and help the police solve and prevent crimes.

The whole “defund the police” meme has guaranteed that nothing will come of this.
They might as well just demanded that the letter “M” be stricken from the English language.

Hostages — Steve Martin
I feel good tonight. I finally got something I always wanted and that’s important. It really is.

I finally got some hostages.

Well, you see so many people with hostages nowadays and you say “Hey, I’d like some, too!” So I’ve got three of ’em, they’re really nice people. We get along great, they’re tied in a sack outside at the top of the flagpole. And I’m gonna blow ’em up at midnight, too.

Unless, of course, I get my three demands.
A hundred thousand in cash,
getaway car
and I want the letter M stricken from the English language.

See, you have to make one crazy demand, that way, if you get caught, you can plead insanity.

Ha…. Getaway car.

    DSHornet in reply to Neo. | June 8, 2020 at 9:53 am

    Make the getaway car a thirty year old clunker that leaves a trail of blue oil smoke and maybe an iffy fuel pump.
    .

texansamurai | June 8, 2020 at 8:55 am

brown and floyd would more than likely be alive today if they had simply complied with the respective police officer’s commands

each of them resisted arrest(and in both cases forcefully)and each of them resorted to violence/attempted assaults against the respective officers

violent resistance to arrest/capture is at the core of nearly all alleged ” police brutality ” incidents

cops(like most other humans)have visceral instincts for self-preservation

would be instructive(and imo should be mandatory)that all of these ” crime reporters ” and ” activists ” complete say 20 ride-alongs with the police and experience the real world of the job

Let’s take a look at your suggestions.

“1. Limit qualified immunity for LEO to those LEO acting in accordance with their agencies training and policy.”

This is essentially the way it is today. A LEO loses the claim of qualified immunity if he knowingly acts in a manner contrary to his department’s P&P or existing law and often if he should have known, through training, that his actions were a violation. So, no real change there.

“2. Create and empower precinct level civilian review boards.”

This might be a good idea, except for the problem with staffing these boards with knowledgeable individuals. Most people have absolutely NO idea what LE entails. This would be tantamount to having civilian review boards for doctors, lawyers, the building trades and every other profession. Not really a good idea. In fact, the longer the members serve on these boards, the less likely they are to rule against an officer’s routine use of force. When that happens the board membership comes under attack for it. It is a no win situation, in the long run.

“3. Civil service protection limited to no retaliatory or politically motivated firings; new chief or mayor can’t fire without cause. Can fire with cause.”

Again, this is the situation today. The problems with retention crop up when administrators and elected politicians fail to follow the law, rules, or contractual agreements. Anyone can be fired for just cause, if that is the penalty which most employees face for the same violation.

:4. Union bargaining and representation limited to pay rates, vacation days, sick days or military service days. Nothing else.”

This is simply stupid. The union should be able to represent their membership in all cases with regard benefits and job actions. Now, what people seem to be oblivious to is the fact that unions can only force an issue once they have secured a favorable ruling from a court, based upon existing labor laws or contracts. These exist to protect workers and were passed by the elected representative of the people. Don’t like them? Have your elected representative repeal the laws.

“5. Complete transparency of all disciplinary proceedings and records. Proven disciplinary action maintained in a publicly accessible national database.”

Actually all disciplinary proceedings fall under public records laws. Most states require that all substantiated complaints of violations, which resulted in any suspension or greater penalty be maintained in the employee’s permanent record and any resulting in written or verbal reprimand be maintained, as public record, for 1-5 years, depending upon the jurisdiction. Investigative records may require an administrative or court order for release. As to a publicly accessible national data base with such information, we do not even have that for convicted felons. So why should we have one for LEOs?

“6. End the use of any neck restraint. Increase training in use of baton for compliance strikes. Educate public on this use.”

While I agree that neck restraints are dangerous and sometimes improperly taught, practice and used, there is only an infinitesimal number of fatalities from such holds. Also, in most jurisdictions, neck restraints which curtail breathing or blood flow, have been designated as deadly force, under case law and statutory law. This is also true of baton strikes to the neck and head. And, if a LEO is forced to attempt to hold a belligerent subject around the shoulders, because that is the only area he can reach, this hold can slip up onto the neck or be perceived to be a “choke hold”. This is amply demonstrated by the Garner case. The problem with batons, is that almost all swinging strikes, with a baton, are a PR nightmare, no matter what part of the body is struck. So, most baton use is limited to jabs and leverage moves using the baton. And, if such use leads to internal organ damage or broken bones and dislocated joints, use of force problems still exist.

“7. Budget review. How much overtime is too much? More dual car patrols, perhaps all. Right size the PD to the level required to meet the needs and expectations of the community.”

First of all, police administrators and elected politicians hate overtime. The reason is because they have to justify it to the people. OT is mostly used to fill out understaffed agencies [which are most agencies today] and to cover extra calls for police service; such as sporting events, parades, etc. The problem with two-man patrol units is three fold. First, is the manpower issue. There just are not enough LEOs to do this. The second problem is the flexibility issue. Your two-man patrol team is tied together. This means that two men are always tied up, even on calls where one is sufficient. The third is a situational awareness issue. Not only is having a partner beside you in the car a distraction, but it can lead to a false sense of security which can cause a two-man unit to miss threats and suspicious behavior that a single LEO would more likely notice. There have been several studies supporting this, by the way.

There seems to be some overwhelming need to fix something which is not broken; routine law enforcement.

    CommoChief in reply to Mac45. | June 9, 2020 at 1:11 pm

    Mac45,

    Qualified immunity for LEO is a judicial construction that requires a plaintiff to find a precedent for the same circumstances of their claim. That is too high a hurdle. My proposal eliminates that and allows plaintiffs to proceed only where LEO violate policy/training.

    Review boards should be empowered to make recommendations to the city review board. Basically the precinct boards are analogous to a grand jury. I agree that the members should be screened for those with anti police bias. I would also require an initial 50 hours of ride along time and 20 hours per quarter thereafter to provide context.

    Civil service should be firing if a LEO acts outside of policy or training. I don’t believe that is what happens today. What I am proposing is following an incident/allegations the LEO is suspended with pay for up to 30 days to complete the investigation. If confirmed the LEO is fired. If not confirmed the LEO is not fired.

    Unions. Public sector unions are a very bad idea. I am simply calling for their bargaining ability to be limited not their elimination.

    Neck restraint. Gotta go. Batons PR nightmare agreed. This the call to educate on the use. All non lethal force measures have issues. Tasers can cause heartbeat issues, batons look bad, PR wise but aren’t in fact, neck restraint if properly trained and used is the most effective but used improperly is the most dangerous. LEO have to use something for nonlethal force, let the community make an educated decision on which.

    Budget. Hey man you don’t want 2 man car’s fine with me. However, I would simply point out that smaller less physically imposing LEO are likely to be challenged more often.
    Costs. Less overtime and more LEO is preferable to me. Being a LEO is stressful, they need sleep and downtime just like everyone else. Limiting overtime by hiring will add costs. Training standards for initial training and quality ongoing training and testing will also be costly. If we want quality in training we have to pay for it.

    Simply wishing LEO were all 6’2, 225 lbs college athletes with dual psychology and CJ majors who graduated from a 9 month academy, underwent a one-year probation period, who recertified all physical academy events annually and who were all able to remain well grounded, professionals who never becomes cynical and jaded isn’t realistic without funding. Even with funding those goals are debatable.

    My bottom line is we have to be willing to find and pay for the LEO we want. Professionals cost money. If we are Ok with less quality applicants and sworn LEO that is what our communities will get.

    Everything has a cost and all our ideas and reforms and recommendations will have a price. Our communities need to understand that and be willing to pay or shut up. Either way there will be a price.

“I don’t think it would be good public policy to take the discretion from elected district attorneys,” Harris, formerly San Francisco’s district attorney, said in an interview. “I don’t think there’s an inherent conflict. … Where there are abuses, we have designed the system to address them.”

Harris said the system has built-in safeguards: Locally elected prosecutors are accountable to their communities, and when a district attorney is not following the law or has a conflict of interest, the attorney general has the power to come in and take over the case.
******
Someone needs to investigate her record and all of her comments. Pin her position down on defunding police.

henrybowman | June 8, 2020 at 10:12 pm

“This is essentially the way it is today. A LEO loses the claim of qualified immunity if he knowingly acts in a manner contrary to his department’s P&P or existing law and often if he should have known, through training, that his actions were a violation. So, no real change there.”

Not even close.

https://ij.org/press-release/beyond-george-floyd-how-qualified-immunity-enables-bad-policing/

Excerpt:

“Officers were recently granted qualified immunity when they let their police dog attack a suspect who was seated with his hands raised because the court found that an earlier case in which police let loose their dog on a suspect who was lying down wasn’t a close enough match.”

“an Idaho mom handed her keys to local police so they could search for a suspect. Rather than using the keys, officers spent the better part of a day firing tear-gas grenades and other projectiles into the empty home, destroying it and almost everything inside it. (The suspect was not there.) When the mom sued for the warrantless destruction of her home, the government defended itself by saying that no warrant was needed: When she gave the police her consent to get inside the home, that included her consent to destroy it with grenades from outside.”

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