Pro-Palestinian Berlin mob: “Jew, Cowardly Pig, Come On Out And Fight” (Video)
Stop pretending that in modern political reality there is any difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
I tweeted about this yesterday:
Just your typical pro-Pal riot: “Jew, Jew, cowardly swine, come out and fight on your own!” http://t.co/ci8ciMjdQS via @timesofisrael
— Legal Insurrection (@LegInsurrection) July 21, 2014
Now Yair Rosenberg of Tablet Magazine has the video:
This is part of a worldwide phenomenon, and puts the lie to the claim that in modern political reality there is any difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
And remember, a prominent American anti-Israel boycott professor blames these anti-Semitic outbursts on Zionism. That’s what we’re up against on campuses.
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Comments
I’m somewhat new to this topic. Someone I know stated the following and I wasn’t quite sure how to reply.
Basically that even if Hamas hides their weapons in civilian buildings, that….
1) Hamas hide their weapons amongst the citizenry (as if the civilians have a choice in this matter).
2) IDF know where the weapons are.
3) IDF know there are civilians there.
4) IDF warn civilians to get out (let’s assume they do this to one degree or another).
5) Civilians don’t get out.
6) IDF bomb the targets and the civilians anyway.
The bottom line is that 28 Israelis have died from Hamas “rockets” since 2001. In the last week alone 500+ Palestinians (many civilians) have been killed.
How many Palestinian teenagers have died at the hands of IDF? The reality is that over the last 13 years, on average, one Palestinian child has been killed by Israel every 3 days. Since the outbreak of the second Intifada in September 2000, 1,523 Palestinian children have been killed by Israel’s occupation forces. Over the same time period, 129 Israeli children have been killed. Thus, the ratio of Palestinian children to Israeli children killed is more than ten to one.
Any thoughts? Thanks
Why are “rockets” in scare quotes?
Which Palestinians are NOT “civilians”? Is there a Hamas formation that is identifiable as a regular military?
In your item (4), do you have any evidence to show that the IDF does NOT use unprecedented means to avoid killing innocents? When has Pres. ScamWOW shown any such concern with his drone war?
When does a teen stop being a “child”? How many times in recent history have terrorists employed child-soldiers?
How morally bankrupt are you?
The old “someone I know” schtick, is it?
If you’re telling the truth, then that ‘someone’ knows Hamas is using human shields in civilian structures. Why wouldn’t you confront that ‘someone’ with the inhumanity and war-crime of that practice?
Interesting too how you attribute the enumerated points to that ‘someone’, but in your last 2 paragraphs, make emphatic 1st person declarations of “the bottom line” and “the reality is” …
Me thinks you’re just a spineless anti-Semite troll, hiding behind the old “someone I know” shtick.
OK, again for the record, I apologize for the confusion. I should have put everything beyond my first sentence in quotes. Everything after the first sentence was a position that someone else took and I was trying to frame a good response. I’ve received some good information here.
I apologize for offending anyone. Looking back at my original post I can see where someone would attribute some of the sentences to my own viewpoint. They weren’t. I’m not trolling. Was truly looking to get a good reply. Thanks.
Newbie doesn’t deserve to be attacked, these are legitimate questions. I am not going to take the time to answer all of them, but have these two observations/comments:
1) From where are the numbers coming? I don’t disbelieve them, I would juat like to see the source. Regarding the “children” designation, how many of the children are 16/17 year old males vs. young kids. I don’t believe that the people putting out these stats are making a distinction.
2) I don’t believe the proportion of Israeli to Palestinian deaths damns Israel. There are a number of reasons for this:
a) Israel’s superior firepower. It is not a “fault” and they don’t have to apologize for having it if they are using it to defend against rocket attacks (or terror attacks, in the case of the intifada) on their civilian population.
b) Hamas’ incompetence (so to speak). Just because Hamas can’t kill hundreds of Israeli children, despite trying, doesn’t mean Israel is to blame.
c) Preparation. Israel has devoted millions to creating shelters and when the sirens sounds people try to get to them. There is no warning from Hamas when they fire at Israeli civilians. Conversely, Hamas has devoted the same effort to creating bunkers to *attack* Israel and hide their weaponry and leaders. If this trend were reversed, you would surely see that ratio come closer to 1:1.
d) Not only does Hamas not prepare protective shelters for their people, we see they are forbidding them from leaving areas they are warned will see heavy combat. They also tried to forbid UNRWA from opening temporary areas for fleeing civilians (UNRWA didn’t comply).
Bottom line, if Hamas put as much effort into protecting their civilians as Israel did into protecting theirs, you would see that ratio a whole lot closer to 1:1. I don’t believe it would get to 1:1, but it would not be as lopsided.
Case in point, re: my point 1) above.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/16-year-old-gaza-terrorist-treated-in-israeli-hospital/
“A 16-year-old Palestinian terrorist is being treated in an Israeli hospital after being captured during a pre-dawn Monday terror attack on southern Israel when emerging from one of Hamas’s cross-border tunnels…”
Undoubtedly he will be counted as a “children” casualty.
David, thank you very much for the replies, they were very helpful for me.
And, how many Arab children are killed by Hamas and the other terrorist organizations accidentally and then blamed on Israel.
Newbie,
Read this:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgespa125179.html
Making more sense now?
The explicit goal of Hamas is to expel all Jews out of their historic homeland — as a first step in exterminating all Jews everywhere. Do you believe that Hamas should be permitted to continue its campaign to wipe out the state of Israel simply because Hamas is willing to turn large numbers of its own civilians into human sacrifices for propaganda purposes, while Israel goes to great lengths to protect its own civilians?
That’s exactly the kind of thinking that Hamas is counting on. Hamas aims to put Israelis in a position where the rest of the world condemns them for anything they do to protect themselves — including the security barrier that has been effective at preventing suicide bombings aimed at Israeli children.
Muslims have said many times that they will defeat the “infidels” because infidels (especially Jews) love life while Muslims love death. “Palestinian” children are taught from earliest childhood that their highest aspiration should be to die in the process of killing Jews. Their mothers celebrate when that happens.
Israelis do not deliberately target children. “Palestinians” do.
Hi NewbieToLegal,
You ask an important question that is a huge locus of misinformation. Allow me to address a few of the issues you raise:
1. A minimum 20% of the Hamas rockets fall short of the intended target and strike Gaza, plus misfirings are not infrequent. In the first six months of 2014 alone, 30 Gazans were killed by rockets that misfired or fell short, or in accidents such as a missile production factory explosion (the factory was located on the ground floor of a family dwelling, consequently the explosion kills civilians). You can be sure that these casualty figures are attributed to Israel. even though these are the result of Hamas military activities. This Gazan casualty number of 30 from Jan-June 2014 is from when approx 10-65 rockets were fired and reached Israel each month. In the current escalation of the conflict, it is thought that as many as 800 Hamas rockets may have fallen on Gazans in the month of July. All casualties will be attributed in the Palestinian press releases as the result of Israeli action, an Orwellian manipulation of the truth.
2. “IDF bomb the targets and the civilians anyway”. Not remotely true. Watch this video.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=804208936279889
If a civilian runs into the line of fire up to 10s before the pilot releases the bomb, the pilot receives orders not to release. There is no other army that goes to such lengths to avoid civilian casualties. The IDF does not target innocent civilians.
3. A deliberate part of Hamas’ strategy is to inflate civilian casualties as a media propaganda war especially aimed at gaining the sympathy of the Western world and inciting the Arab world. There are numerous reports documenting this approach, for example here is a link to the social media instructions, casualties are to be always referred to as “innocent civilians”.
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htm
This strategy is incredibly effective and the photos of dead people are horrifying. The journalists do not have the ability to tell who died at the hands of Hamas and no context iss provided. This is the reason that the previous Israeli ambassador to the US has called the international media complicit in prolonging the conflict:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=38&x_article=2349
This makes it very difficult especially while the conflict is taking place, to determine true civilian casualty figures as discussed here:
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-real-statistics-of-those-killed-in.html#.U8579o1dUTE
4. If Hamas stores bombs in a residential neighbourhood (and there are very many other locations available in Gaza), and this munitions stockpile is destroyed by the IDF, nearby homes will be affected as a result of secondary explosions. The IDF has no way of knowing how big the munitions stockpile is and the secondary explosions are often the most lethal in terms of civilian casualties. Whose responsibility is this?
5. Read the Hamas charter. Israel is engaged in a war with an enemy that seeks the annihilation of Israel and all the Jews worldwide. Hamas and its allies are not interested in negotiation of borders etc., it is a movement steeped in theological Islamic Jew hatred. This is very very uncomfortable for us westerners to comprehend as it is so hateful, ideological and fanatical. Yet it is very real and very murderous and the threat of Hamas needs to be taken seriously.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1075
RuthC, thanks very much. I wasn’t aware of the 20% information on rockets falling short. Your reply was very helpful.
Hi RuthC. Appreciate your post. I need to inform a friend that is caught up in the media BS, can you please provide your source details for the rockets falling short. Thanks
http://thisongoingwar.blogspot.co.il/2014/04/5-apr-14-home-made-rockets-what-damage.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YxGkOTEqRs
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182127#.U9AlJoBdUTF
Google the topic and you will find more information. The Hamas “home made” rockets are packed with material designed to cause maximum human casualties on impact and are devastating where ever they fall. Rockets falling short are not really reported, Hamas maintains tight control over journalists and information in Gaza.
Obviously if it is your child or family member, you don’t care who is responsible and naturally you will blame the other side. The issue of responsibility is important to resolve from a policy perspective of understanding the conflict.
The Israelis pulled out of Gaza completely in 2005 with the idea that the “Palestinians” would be happy with their judenrein home. Israel continued to send basic goods, including water and electricity, into Gaza, and to treat Gaza residents in Israeli hospitals.
The “Palestinian” response was to turn Gaza into a military base from which to launch missiles and dig tunnels into Israel. They doubled down on the genocidal propaganda fed to their young children.
The residents of Gaza have cultivated a violently hateful culture whose primary purpose is attacking Jews, even if those Jews are actually helping them.
Do you (or the “someone” who purportedly made the Hamas case to you) believe that Israel should let itself be devoured just because the “Palestinians” are willing to put their own children on the front lines?
A Palestinian child is not necessarily a civilian, but rather a terrorist in training.
School books in Gaza teach children to hate and aspire to die killing Jews.
Islam is a racist, misogynist, aggressively violent ideology.
The Palis always say they’re justified in targeting Israeli children because they’ll serve in the IDF when they’re older. But they shriek in outrage if Pali children are harmed after being groomed as warriors against Jews from the time they took their first steps, or after being deliberately put in the line of fire. The Palis know they will never be held to the same moral standards as Israelis.
Uhhhh… somebody has been listening to his leftist Poly-Sci professor!!
You say you want to learn?
Check out these two links from this website! Both contain compelling, scholarly research.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/05/the-historical-fiction-of-israels-occupation/
https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/02/the-legal-case-for-israel/
Based on FACT and EVIDENCE, the whole raison d’être for Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah and the militancy of the west ceases to exist.
Welcome to my world. I live in a world where people ask questions like that. Or worse, assume the mainstream media and NYT is accurate and don’t even ask questions.
In my world (a small college town), it is not uncommon to go to a gathering and hear somebody say that Republicans are bigoted and racist who don’t care about kids getting shot by guns. My last social occasion was a dinner party last week where I got into an argument with somebody who thought that Angela Davis had valuable things to say and justified being invited to speak on campus in a distinguished lecture series with a speaking fee of approx $20k. I don’t know if I’ll be invited back! I lost a friendship of many years standing just for saying “I think Ted Cruz could make a good president”.
There is hardly no illogical, ill informed politically leftwing statement I haven’t heard or had to respond to. A couple of recent favorite examples?
“Obama has been disappointing because the Republicans won’t let him succeed”.
“I’m so proud of my 5 year old; she is so intelligent she has realized already that God doesn’t exist”.
You can’t make this stuff up, it makes me laugh even to think about all the crazy stuff that academics say and think.
Like NewbieToLegal, this site helps greatly, providing information and, in my case moral support, so I know that I am not alone!
Taking you at your word here are some thoughts
1. Disparity in number of deaths – if the Hamas rockets that were intercepted by Iron Dome were not and hit their targets what would the number of deaths on the Israeli side be?
2. If the number of Israeli deaths would be in excess of 2,000 how would that affect how you frame your questions.
3. With regards to what the IDF knows. Do they? Its one thing to know there are missiles and tunnels, it is another to really know their numbers and their exact location.
4. To put number 3 another way – are we sure the Israeli invasion to find and destroy tunnels excessive or is it necessary? If necessary how would that frame how you ask your questions.
5. With regards to The Israeli bomb it anyway – they don’t.
Looking forward to your answers.
I dunno…
seems to me that “cowardly pig” nicely describes guys who tunnel toward civilians, and pop out wearing the uniforms of the armed services of their victims, hoping to kill and abduct as many of them as they can.
Fitting they lionize a “cowardly pig” like Yassir, That’s My Baby, Arafat.
Arafat, who named his terror organization, Black September, after the righteous and total ass-beating the Paleos took at the hands of Jordanian King Hussein’s Arab Legion in September 1970. Ran ’em right out of Jordan into Lebanon, which they immediately destabilized and ruined.
Lefties think B.S. was named for something the Joooooooos did! They don’t realize that no one else in the region can stand the Paleos either and never gave a damn about them until it was discovered they could be used to harass Israel.
These are truly disappointing and sad times we live in.
OK, just to clarify, none of what I typed was my position. I know some of the history of Israel and the Palestinians and I know that the PLO historically hasn’t accepted a context of non-aggression, but in some of the more detailed points I don’t have access to as much information as some of the other members do here. This is a great site and I learn a great deal here. I am merely asking questions to learn more – please don’t refer to me as morally bankrupt. Thanks.
“I am merely asking questions to learn more”
You post is not a series of questions. Is it?
“How morally bankrupt are you?” is a question. Isn’t it?
Care to answer?
It “was” a series of questions. I indicated in my first sentence that someone raised the questions to me and I didn’t have specific answers. But I am sorry for the confusion.
RuthC and David in DC, thanks VERY MUCH for your replies. I discovered this site about a year ago and found that it provided meaningful information I couldn’t find elsewhere. I’ve learned more about topics like Stand Your Ground here (and the legal framework for it) than all other sites combined. This is a great site. Thanks.
“But I am sorry for the confusion.”
I don’t think I was confused, because I read your syntax.
You are not stating a neutral proposition when you use “rockets” and “children” in the ways you did, or couch your language in “let’s assume they do this to one degree or another”.
But you did ask for a reaction, and you have mine.
You raise an important point. I am also learning that websites like LegalInsurrection are a more reliable and informative news source than traditional media outlets such as the NYT and WaPo.
Many thanks to Prof. Jacobson, David Gerstman and all the LegalInsurrection team for the tremendous blend of information and context they provide on a wide range of issues and events.
Rags: down boy.
Newbie is explaining himself. If he is indeed a troll after all this we’ll figure it out. Right now I’m willing to read him as he says.
One useful thing from this are the excellent posts in response to his original question.
Steve, thanks. Again, I’m not trolling. I swear. Was looking for some general ammunition against some of the knee-jerk reactions in the media on the ratios. I got some great information here.
My only sin (aside from not keeping myself more informed on the issue) was that I didn’t make it clear in the beginning that I was looking for some good intellectual ammunition against what I suspected were bogus claims. Again, I truly apologize for making it seem anything other than that.
Dennis Prager sums up the conflict in five minutes – he has many other teaching videos at Dennis Prager University.
http://www.prageruniversity.com/Political-Science/Middle-East-Problem.html#.U86dbFbYspw
Well, Rags, he did say this:
Someone I know stated the following and I wasn’t quite sure how to reply.
The outrageously leading question is what is morally bankrupt. I would reply with,
“So you approve of Hamas using children as human shields? You must, because if you admit that Hamas hides their weapons among civilians, and when the civilians are killed in the process of destroying those weapons, the Israelis are the ones who are reprehensible, and only the Israelis. The fact that only 28 Israeli civilians have been killed in Hamas rocket attacks is because they built bomb shelters, while Hamas built weapons bunkers and smuggling tunnels. The difference between casualty rates is not some moral failing of Israel’s, but one of Hamas.”
Well, we can get more elemental than that, too.
Were people in Gaza to NOT attempt to kill Israelis, how many Gazan people of any age would be killed by the IDF?
Even the Egyptians get it.
If the people of Gaza did not down to the last one live to kills Jews they wouldn’t be people from Gaza. Its on their birth certificates under Trade or Occupation – “Lives to Kill Jews”.
Your last (full) paragraph of the first post of this thread had a statement, the sort that people thought Lois Lerner should’ve lost her 5th amendment right to not self-incriminate over. I’ll just ask you one question for perspective…
How many of those Israeli children were killed while they were throwing rocks at Palestinian police?
Always remember to staple your protest signs to wooden baseball bats.
Maybe in theory there’s a difference, but right now, in practice, well, what we see is what we get.
And were it not for a much maligned, “Star Wars” pie in the sky anti-missile defense no one thought would work, called, in a moment of hysteric grandstanding, “Iron Dome”… the story would be about how mighty Hamas had the power to kill Israelis far beyond the previous range of their rockets in a show of technical and military prowess, forcing Israel to kneel before it.
Now you have a truly grateful population of moderates and leftists who had chosen to live too far north for previous Gaza rockets cheering on the army to root out Hamas once and for all.
All of Europe, except for Denmark, was complicit in the Holocaust. That’s why they have worn the metaphorical hair shirt all these years. However, after a proper period or mourning (aka, hiding their complicity), the Euro-trash have declared that they’ve repented enough and can now get back to their hard-wired, DNA-infused Antisemitism.
Germany: “Okay, whose turn is it? I went last.”
A pox on them all.
I’m looking at the photos of these protesters, and they don’t look very Teutonic to me. All across Europe are large groups of Muslim immigrants who want nothing to do with their host countries and cultures. France has banned these pro-Palestinian gatherings because of their violence against French Jews.
True. But there are lots of Europeans who still seem to find the “Palestinians” more sympathetic than Israelis. Maybe seeing the character of the pro-Pali Muslim mobs will change a few minds.
Clearly all, or mostly all are of the “Durka! Durka!” variety. The ethnic krauts are all working today to fund the massive welfare state for these “immigrants”.
Question for “Professor” Salaita:
If Zionists are responsible for anti-Semitism …
then what are people like Max Blumenthal and his ilk responsible for?
Newbie,
The various answers you have received thus far are secular in nature, but Hamas purports to justify its actions on a religious basis. It is illuminating to compare their religious position to that of Islam as taught by all eight legitimate schools.
Hamas purports to commit heinous sins, namely all the sins involved in genocide against its neighbors, as part of its worship of Allah. http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b.htm They say in their introduction that they plan to “to sacrifice our souls and dearest [possessions] in the path of Allah.” Their big plan is to murder every Jew on the face of the earth, and reconquer every square inch of land ever held by a Muslim regime. To do this, they contract to engage in an advertising campaign to convince Muslims that they have an individual religious duty to kill their neighbors, and engage in eternal warfare.
Islam, however, is one of the Abrahamic (that is, Jewish-origin) religions which have at their core two requirements: “Love God,” and “Love your neighbor.” http://www.acommonword.com The Hamas Covenant is therefore in direct contradiction to the teachings of Islam. The Christian term for this is “blasphemy,” or “attribute to God that which does not belong to Him, or deny Him that which is His”. I am Catholic. I was taught that the consequence of true blasphemy (not just cussing) is damnation.
Curiously, the behavior of Hamas has resulted in the deaths of many, many more Muslims that Jews, and may of those Muslims have been killed directly by Hamas. Further, the people for whom Hamas purports to fight have been impoverished by Hamas’s antics, both because the Israelis and the Egyptians have had to control their travel, and also because the copious aid from other countries has been spent on bombs, rockets, and tunnels instead of infrastructure. Hamas is only one Islamist offspring of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt, none of which appear capable of governing even a small bit of territory without murdering and impoverishing a lot of Muslims.
To a secular person, the actions of Hamas appear to be irrational. To a religious person, Hamas appears to be deprived of, not only moral, but even tactical, reasoning. A religious person can look at the actions of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan and Turkey, ISIS in Iraq and Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories, and wonder if the chaos in the Middle East is not practical evidence of damnation.
Just a follow-up, I read this morning (on the AmericanThinker blog) about Hamas using BABIES as shields. Basically approaching with an infant in one hand and a weapon in the other. Also heard last night on the radio about attacks being launched by Hamas from hospitals.