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Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH

Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH

Kyle Rittenhouse’s fate now is in the hands of the jury. We will monitor developments.

NEW POST – see here for updated verdict information as of Wednesday —

Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH: Mistrial With Prejudice?

Prior coverage:

Welcome to our ongoing coverage of the Kyle Rittenhouse trial! This is our VERDICT WATCH post, where we will share any fast-breaking news on verdicts and other events around the jury deliberations which begin today.

I encourage you to bookmark or just leave open in your browser, but you will have to refresh for updates.

Live Stream 
I wouldn’t expect much action, but providing it as a courtesy.

For those who missed the closing arguments, here is the coverage:

 

UPDATES

(refresh page for updates; most recent on top, all times Central time)

5:50 p.m.: Jury going home for the night, no verdict yet.

5:08 p.m.:  Interesting:

4:54 p.m.: Interesting:

4:32 p.m.: Interesting:

3:55 p.m.:  Reports jurors asking for more copies of more instructions, but no verdict yet.

1:13 p.m.:  Relevant history from the LA riots:

12:24 p.m.:  Interesting.

WJIC 805 Privilege: Self-Defense: Force Intended or Likely to Cause Death or Great Bodily Harm

10:28 a.m.: Looks like I’ll be doing a guest appearance on Megyn Kelly’s show today at 12:15 p.m. (central time)

9:30 a.m.: This happened about 30 minutes ago, doing a little bit of catch-up.  Six of the jurors have been randomly coosen to be alternates.  These are jurors numbered 9, 11, 14, 45, 52, 58.  These six alternates will remain at the courthouse until needed.  That leaves 12 jurors to engage in deliberations. And with that, jury retires to consider their verdicts.

The judge also asked the lawyers to stay within 10 minutes of the courthouse, in case the jurors send out questions–those would be discussed in court with the judge and the parties present.

Here’s the selection of the alternates:

Here are Judge Schroeder’s final comments to the 12 jurors before sending them into deliberations:

9:10 a.m.: Here’s the entirety of the State rebuttal, delivered by ADA Kraus:

9:08 a.m.: Here’s a highlight from the State rebuttal by ADA Kraus, wrongly suggesting that a defender is required to suffer actual injury before being privileged to act in self-defense, and that, hey, everyone needs to take a beat-down once in a while.

8:58 a.m.: Here’s the defense closing argument by Attorney Mark Richards:

8:54 a.m.: Here’s the entirety of ADA Binger’s closing argument, both before and after lunch yesterday:

Pre-lunch break:

Post-lunch break:

8:36 a.m.: Highlight from yesterday’s closing argument by ADA Binger, making outright false statements of law–that it’s flatly unlawful to shoot an unarmed man, and that you lose self-defense if you’re the one who brought the gun.

7:47 a.m.:  The jury, still consisting of 18 people, is scheduled to arrive at the courthouse to begin deliberations at 9:00 a.m. CT.  The first thing to be done will be the random selection of 6 of those 18 to be identified as alternate jurors, leaving a core group of 12 primary jurors. The alternate jurors will not participate in deliberations, but neither will they be sent home. Instead, they will be kept at the courthouse in case a replacement is needed for anyone among the deliberating jurors.

Until next time:

Remember

You carry a gun so you’re hard to kill.

Know the law so you’re hard to convict.

Stay safe!

–Andrew

Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LLC

Nothing in this content constitutes legal advice. Nothing in this content establishes an attorney-client relationship, nor confidentiality. If you are in immediate need of legal advice, retain a licensed, competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction.

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Comments



 
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lurker9876 | November 16, 2021 at 6:00 pm

Read that the judge will allow the jurors to go home tonight if verdict not reached in time. But the jurors are now worried about the safety of their family members, jobs, family pets, homes, cars, et al.

Unrest increasing and the professional rioters are there. They are just waiting for the crowds to work with.


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to lurker9876. | November 16, 2021 at 6:05 pm

    The judge should clear rooms in the courthouse and bring in beds for them. They should be sequestered, and separated at that to quell any possibility of discussions outside the presence of other jurors.


     
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    JRaeL in reply to lurker9876. | November 16, 2021 at 6:05 pm

    Jurors should be sequestered tonight unless judge does the right thing and declares a mistrial with prejudice. But the jurors should not be exposed to any outside threats.


       
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      amwick in reply to JRaeL. | November 16, 2021 at 6:09 pm

      They have already been exposed to outside threats, so it seems.
      Now what?


       
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      zennyfan in reply to JRaeL. | November 16, 2021 at 10:09 pm

      Why would it be a mistrial with prejudice, absent prosecutorial misconduct related to the “peaceful protesters”/gathering mob?


         
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        henrybowman in reply to zennyfan. | November 17, 2021 at 1:41 am

        Jack Posobiec tweets;

        Two jurors holding decision up, outright citing backlask, per US Marshal in Kenosha
        More: Worried about media leaking their names, what will happen to their families, jobs, etc.
        Including doxxing threats from “anarchist groups”

        Assuming he is telling the truth, that all but states outright that tenare voting for acquittal, but the remaining two aren’t because are terrified for their safety.

        I would presume the right thing for the judge to do here is attempt to verify this, then direct a verdict of acquittal.

        It’s abhorrent that the American justice system is once against vulnerable to the passions of Democrat lynch mobs. Because this is precisely what we are seeing.


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to lurker9876. | November 16, 2021 at 6:06 pm

    Probably not viable. But I see it that important to be assured they don’t get outside ‘help’ coming to a decision.

Riot in the jury room!


 
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lurker9876 | November 16, 2021 at 6:02 pm

Jury tampering and suspicion that the prosecutors and the mayor both want the riots.

I don’t see how the judge can possibly avoid calling a mistrial with prejudice in the face of outright jury intimidation.


     
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    JHogan in reply to JRaeL. | November 16, 2021 at 6:05 pm

    I agree. But I’m not an attorney.

    Would like some attorneys to weigh in.


     
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    LetsGoBrandon in reply to JRaeL. | November 16, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    He is scared too. He has been getting all sorts of threats as well. THBS, he should have the stones to call it and send everyone home. If I were Kyle, I would ask for the sheriffs to take me back to jail for the night – beats beating the rap only to get killed on the courthouse steps on the way out.


     
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    MidnightTreeBandit in reply to JRaeL. | November 16, 2021 at 6:55 pm

    I agree with you. This is the second case of obvious jury intimidation we have seen in these BLM / Antifa cases. It is literally a case of mob rule versus the rule of law.


 
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DelightLaw1 | November 16, 2021 at 6:05 pm

If they get attacked by the mob, and are in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm, they can shoot them and please self- defense.
Oh…wait?

We must look at this in an apolitical prism of wrongful persecutions/aka prosecutions for political motives. This is just killing ny mind.


 
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UserPeabody | November 16, 2021 at 6:09 pm

If you recall, there were reports of jurors being filmed one day before the court convened—the judge even spoke out about it. And subsequent threats made of jurors being doxxed if they failed to convict Rittenhouse.

Where is Merrick Garland in this? Oh, he’s one of the anarchists.

Attorney Branca is back up on Rieketa.


 
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lurker9876 | November 16, 2021 at 6:12 pm

Judge said there would be substantial amount of warning between when a verdict is reached and when it is read, maybe 1 hour.

Is this to quickly move the jurors to safe places?

I’m worried. They must have decided that Kyle couldn’t legally use self defense on at least one charge, or they wouldn’t have needed the rest of the instructions.

There is a very noisy crowd on the steps of the courthouse, both sides represented.


     
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    Elzorro in reply to darwin. | November 16, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    2 leftists holding out on jury.


     
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    lurker9876 in reply to darwin. | November 16, 2021 at 6:19 pm

    Somebody’s opinion:

    Because the jury is still deliberating DOES NOT mean there is a rogue juror. The jury understands the national attention this case is getting. Just because we have not received a verdict yet doesn’t mean there is a rogue juror. They’ve been deliberating about 7 hours. It could go into tomorrow, it could come out in 10 minutes.

    Don’t start speculating and believe everything you read. Although we believe it shouldn’t had ever happened in the first place, these jurors are weighing Kyles future in their hands right now. They could have 1 tough headed juror in there, it’s better they take their time and work on convincing that 1 juror than to tell the judge they’re hung.

    The law is on Rittenhouse’s side.


 
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lurker9876 | November 16, 2021 at 6:25 pm

What is going on in the court room right now?


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:32 pm

Assuming Kyle walks, to where do you think he will relocate?


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:32 pm

Some movement in the court room


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:33 pm

now nothing


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:34 pm

Audio on in court


 
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Chewbacca | November 16, 2021 at 6:37 pm

Judge was doing trivia. Now the sound is off again.


 
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Chewbacca | November 16, 2021 at 6:43 pm

With the crap that is going on immediately outside the courthouse they really should be sequestered at this point.


 
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lurker9876 | November 16, 2021 at 6:45 pm

Rebecca Klopf wrote that the legal experts could deadlock on one charge and says that the judge could declare mistrial only for the counts that the jury cannot agree on. The rest of the verdict would stand.

Is that possible?


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:46 pm

Action in the court


 
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E_Wyggyn | November 16, 2021 at 6:49 pm

Sometimes, just sometimes, courage is needed. Courage doesn’t mean one is not afraid, but THESE JURORS swore they would serve justice to MR. Rittenhouse. Now there is clear evidence they are being influenced by external factors not directly associated with this trial. Unbelievable. DO YOUR JOB Jury. If you are too helpless to secure your own interests, then what the heck are you doing on the jury in the first place. Judge: SHAME ON YOU TOO. Protect these jurors in their solemn duty, NOW. Unless of course you want a thousand 2A proponents on the courthouse steps in the next 48 hours to stare down the armed communists for you. This is going to explode and your city will look like Beirut (been there, not pleasant)


     
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    RandomCrank in reply to E_Wyggyn. | November 16, 2021 at 8:21 pm

    Your comment is exactly why I would declare myself unable to be fair minded if I were called for jury service in a media trial like this one. It would be like drinking at the office Christmas party: all downside risk.


     
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    henrybowman in reply to E_Wyggyn. | November 17, 2021 at 1:57 am

    If this were a Twilight Zone episode, the jurors would vote to acquit, then each one would be given a gun to keep themselves safe on the way home, with the admonition:
    “Remember all you have learned during this trial as you decide whether or not to use this, and when.”

    But a Twilight Zone ending wouldn’t be fair to those honest jurors. We need to come up with a plot twist that enables us to hand those guns to the two DAs instead. That would be great TV.


 
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PhillyWatch | November 16, 2021 at 6:49 pm

Thinking of the jury’s safety concerns post-trial.

They can just do exactly what so many of the Zimmerman jurors did: grant interviews with the media and bemoan the fact they had to find NG because the self defense laws made them. They regretted it but they had no choice (according to them) and would have liked to vote guilty.

Gets them off the hook with the rioters maybe.


     
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    TargaGTS in reply to PhillyWatch. | November 16, 2021 at 7:30 pm

    It seems to be that they’re not only fearful for their lives, but they’re fearful of their livelihoods as well. Zimmerman wasn’t that long ago, but with respect to the velocity and virulence of cancel culture, it might has well have happened a century ago, things are that different now. People are afraid of getting fired or facing some other kind of retaliation. And honestly, it’s hard to say those anxieties are meritless.

    There are a lot of unintended (or absolutely intended) consequence of our verocious, insatiable cancel culture beast. Our criminal justice system clearly isn’t immune to those consequences. It’s something legislatures and courts are going to have find ways to mitigate or the fabric of civil society will begin to unravel in profound ways.


     
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    RandomCrank in reply to PhillyWatch. | November 16, 2021 at 8:23 pm

    If I didn’t manage to get myself excused from that jury, there is no way in hell that I’d even think of giving an interview to the “news” media afterwards.


 
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Close The Fed | November 16, 2021 at 6:50 pm

LIVE right now at 6:50 p.m. Tuesday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whA5p5qmJrc

retiring for evening.


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 16, 2021 at 6:51 pm

So, they are leaving for the night. Any bets on having a couple no shows tomorrow?

Do jurors have to run a gauntlet of protestors to leave the court house?


 
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Blaise MacLean | November 16, 2021 at 6:55 pm

Why isn’t the Jury sequestered?

The jury I was foreman of deliberated for 7 hours on a single murder charge before acquitting. The first vote was 8-3 to acquit (I didn’t reveal my vote). I wanted to make sure that everyone was satisfied that they had a chance to explain their reasoning.

If any of them chooses to send him to jail for life simply because they are scared for their own lives, then they deserve to rot in hell and should not even be anywhere near the jury room.


     
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    UserPeabody in reply to Decee. | November 16, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    You deserve a lot of thumbs up on that one.


     
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    Olinser in reply to Decee. | November 16, 2021 at 7:27 pm

    100%.

    If you’re ‘scared for your life’, then tell the ****ing judge and leave, they have alternate jurors for a reason.

    If you send an innocent kid to jail because you’re a fucking coward then burn in hell.


       
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      henrybowman in reply to Olinser. | November 17, 2021 at 2:03 am

      In the end, nobody can protect you but yourself.
      You are always your own first responder.
      If you are afraid because someone else won’t protect you (assuming you are not a kid), you are an incompetent citizen. Sounds harsh, but so is Darwin.
      Shame (and ironic) that the jury now has to be confronted with exactly the same dilemma as Rittenhouse, but what a teaching moment for everybody else on the globe.
      The Marxists in power are not your friends. The Marxists in power threaten your very lives.

Yanky 🐊 (@Yanky_Pollak) Tweeted:
A woman just got her sign taken away and ripped up in front of the Kenosha courthouse.

Shout out to @RSBNetwork for being there. https://t.co/ndgyZJj7oT


 
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gonzotx | November 16, 2021 at 7:24 pm

The judge in the Rittenhouse trial had to instruct the jury to ignore statements made by the President of the United States about the defendant.

That says a lot about where we are as a country right now


     
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    Olinser in reply to gonzotx. | November 16, 2021 at 7:29 pm

    The judge needs to pick his fucking balls up off the floor and stop telling the jury to ‘ignore’ incident after incident and declare a fucking mistrial with prejudice. This is a JOKE.

    How in the name of Hell is this jury not sequestered?


 
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Arminius | November 16, 2021 at 7:52 pm

“8:36 a.m.: Highlight from yesterday’s closing argument by ADA Binger, making outright false statements of law–that it’s flatly unlawful to shoot an unarmed man, and that you lose self-defense if you’re the one who brought the gun.”

I was just curious, and maybe somebody has already pointed this out, but based on the graphic it seems central to the prosecution’s case that Rittenhouse was the only guy who brought a gun. From the graphic shown at during the prosecution’s closing argument last night:

“He brought the only gun, so he gets to kill?”

Not only is the prosecution lying about the law, they’re lying about the facts. Zminski had a gun. Their own start witness, Gage Grosskreutz, had a gun. Surely the prosecutors must be aware of their own witness’ testimony. And Grosskreutz testified that KR didn’t shoot him until he, Grosskreutz, pointed his gun at KR first.

But since it’s central to the state’s case that KR and KR alone caused the danger then KR must be the only guy with a gun that night. So they just press ahead and pretend GG’s testimony never happened.

How is this not a mistrial with prejudice.


 
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steve_gosney | November 16, 2021 at 8:08 pm

As an appellate criminal lawyer (in Florida) I do not understand why the defense attorney did not object to the many mischaracterizations of the law by the prosecutor. Not only would he get a rebuke from the judge against the prosecutor, but also a chance to re-emphasize the law of self defense, as well as preserving the issue for appeal. Misstatement of the law by a prosecutor can be very damaging if believed by the jury.


 
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carolinaandbaby | November 16, 2021 at 8:32 pm

Bottom line for me if the jury says yes to self defense on any one item…all the other charges are moot.


     
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    Chewbacca in reply to carolinaandbaby. | November 16, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    The most important hurdle is getting self defense for Rosenbaum. That’s the most difficult one to convince a jury of and if they decide that one isn’t SD then none of them are.


       
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      PhillyWatch in reply to Chewbacca. | November 17, 2021 at 9:48 am

      It may be more difficult, but I can see it clearly. Kyle had run into what he perceives a corner where Rosenbaum launched himself at KR and he was in mid-air. After the first shot, KR had no way of knowing his first had disabled Rosenbaum, he had literally milliseconds to put out three more to stop his forward progress where it becomes a struggle for it and he’s going to be killed. Every reason to believe it would happen because Rosenbaum had been promising he’d do it all evening..this is on tape and in testimony.

      The ONLY question to decide is if provocation occurred.


 
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Chewbacca | November 16, 2021 at 8:40 pm

If KR is convicted in this mess would the issues with the jury instructions be enough to get a retrial?

Stupid question time, and apologies if it’s been asked before, but WHY did the judge NOT sequester this jury? Is the jury going to act out of personal fear and convict, or will they have the spine to look at the evidence and render a just verdict.

Second comment, if the jury convicts, will the judge have the spine to set aside the verdict and rule mistrial with prejudice, We live in very difficult times.


     
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    PBM in reply to PoliticalWoman. | November 16, 2021 at 9:16 pm

    My hope is he sent it to the jury knowing the evidence argues against a conviction, but prepared to use the prosecutorial misconduct and threats to the jury to give a directed acquittal with prejudice.


     
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    c_programmer in reply to PoliticalWoman. | November 16, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Almost zero chance. The judge has consistently throughout the trial shown his admiration for the jury (juries in general). He’d rather send decisions to them than make a decision even if he should be making it, ect. So if the jury convicts he will respect that conviction completely and sentence Kyle to life without even slowing down his Jeopardy questions. You have to understand this guy routinely puts his personal opinions aside and decides the fate of peoples lives based on court procedure. All trial judges do. We are just tourists in the world in which he lives.


     
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    TargaGTS in reply to PoliticalWoman. | November 16, 2021 at 9:30 pm

    It’s probably more likely to see Bigfoot riding a unicorn through the streets of Kenosha. While what you’re describing is technically possible, as a practical matter, it never happens. If Kyle is convicted, he’s almost certainly going to have to make his case to an appellate court.


     
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    gonzotx in reply to PoliticalWoman. | November 17, 2021 at 12:24 am

    Answer… No… this judge is almost certainly an idiot and does not have courage


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to PoliticalWoman. | November 17, 2021 at 9:31 am

    He certainly has every reason to with the prosecutions misconducts in the trial. The utter lack of convincing evidence in support of denying privilege for self defense is on clear display. The only evidence in support of provocation (which takes away privilege) is a blowup with computer generated and colored pixels to fill in the blank spots that the expert didn’t even compare to the original. Experts (not in the trial) have said it doesn’t meet forensic standards for admission and should have been tossed.

    IMO, the judge certainly has sufficient grounds to toss a guilty verdict as based on unreasonable conclusions from the facts presented in evidence and in the face of repeated prosecutorial misconducts that probably biased their deliberations. But what do I know. I’m just another layman.


 
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RandomCrank | November 16, 2021 at 9:10 pm

Quite rightly or at least understandably, people here are picking apart the arguments and speculating about the verdict. But we are missing something essential: Kyle has already been convicted. An acquittal will keep him out of prison, but that’s cold comfort. The question now is whether or not he’ll be convicted AGAIN. Don’t forget that “the process is the punishment.”


 
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traderjoe91 | November 16, 2021 at 9:33 pm

Is what Jack Posobiec reported utter BS? I can’t stand such lies. What’s a US Marshall doing in court, and how would a Marshall get that kind of info from a jury? I just don’t buy it.


     
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    thad_the_man in reply to traderjoe91. | November 16, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    Yeah. It unimaginable that a US Marshall would be in a courthouse, especially one that is being locked down.

    And jurors never talk on breaks.


       
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      PBM in reply to thad_the_man. | November 16, 2021 at 10:52 pm

      Unless the Marshalls are there to arrest on Federal charges if he is acquitted.


       
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      traderjoe91 in reply to thad_the_man. | November 16, 2021 at 10:53 pm

      It’s not unimaginable. What is unimaginable is that this report is true and the Judge did not bother to address it.


         
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        luckystars33 in reply to traderjoe91. | November 16, 2021 at 11:04 pm

        The Judge is playing Jeopardy with the jurors.
        Jeopardy meaning:
        Risk of loss or injury; peril or danger. 2. Law A defendant’s risk or danger of conviction when put on trial. American Heritage®…


           
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          luckystars33 in reply to luckystars33. | November 16, 2021 at 11:12 pm

          jeopardy
          n. peril, particularly danger of being charged with or convicted of a particular crime. The U. S. Constitution guarantees in the Fifth Amendment that no one can “be put in jeopardy of life or limb” for the same offense. Thus, once a person as been acquitted, he/she may not be charged again for that crime. However, if there was mistrial, hung jury, or reversal of conviction on appeal (if not declared innocent in the ruling), the defendant may be charged with the crime again and tried again. In a few situations a defendant is not “in jeopardy” of being tried for a violation of a similar (but different) federal criminal (penal) statute based on some of the same circumstances as a state prosecution, such as violation of a murder victim’s civil rights, as was done in the case against the killer of civil rights leader Medgar Evers. (See: double jeopardy)


         
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        zillow24 in reply to traderjoe91. | November 16, 2021 at 11:21 pm

        Why don’t they arrest the guy who pointed his gun at KR for attempted murder?


     
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    traderjoe91 in reply to traderjoe91. | November 16, 2021 at 11:10 pm

    Why am I getting downvoted? Because I am critical of information we receive?

    What Posobiec reported is grounds for a mistrial. And yet the judge does not address it, and Posobiec does not substantiate the claim.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the jurors are in fact fearful—I am sure they are. But such a bombshell by Posobiec needs some backing up.


     
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    TargaGTS in reply to traderjoe91. | November 17, 2021 at 8:20 am

    I agree on its face, it’s hard to understand why a US Marshal was at a local courthouse; although at any given moment, US Marshals can be at local courthouse escorting prisoners in federal custody to participate in state cases. It happens all the time.

    With respect to how they would find out, they would find out they way anybody finds out anything about what’s happening in jury: The bailiffs. The bailiffs can often overhear a lot. Jury rooms generally aren’t hermetically sealed, sound-proof chambers.

    With respect to Posobiec bona fides, I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve read tweets of his and thought to myself, ‘There’s no way that’s true,’ and yet, days or even weeks later, his exclusive reporting is largely validating by mainstream reporting. For instance, more than two-months ago, he tweeted about the profound White House dysfunction surrounding Kamala Harris’ relationship with Biden and his staff. Last week, Politico wrote a lengthy piece about Kamala Harris’ dysfunctional relationship with Biden and his staff.


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to traderjoe91. | November 17, 2021 at 8:52 am

    ACTUALLY…it does raise a question. US Marshals are at US Federal courts and are, I believe, used to escort defendants through the court…like sherrif and/or state police do in state courts. So let’s ask the question why a US Federal court would want to have a Marshal there.

    Is there a possibility of federal charges being filed should KR walk on this?


 
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luckystars33 | November 16, 2021 at 11:00 pm

God bless us all who find the energy to fight this along with all the other incoming fire we are fighting at the same time.
Lord please grant us strength please.

Here is my prediction. The judge will be told that some jurors are not deciding based solely on the evidence presented in court. but by what may happen to themselves and their families. They will be removed and replaced by alternates. If enough are removed and/or alternates say they can’t decide only with the evidence, the judge will declare a mistrial or decide it himself


     
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    f2000 in reply to darwin. | November 17, 2021 at 4:01 am

    I don’t understand why they’d want pages 7-36 of the jury instructions if they were looking to acquit on all charges. That only makes sense to me if they have decided against self-defense and are discussing which charges to find him guilty of.


       
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      TargaGTS in reply to f2000. | November 17, 2021 at 7:44 am

      You’re not wrong. There’s some chance that they simply didn’t understand the instructions. And frankly, considering the judge got confused as he gave them, it would be understandable. But you’re right; if they found self-defense applies to Rosenbaum, everything else is moot. There’s absolutely no need to go on.

      It’s really a shame the defense didn’t DRIVE that point home during closing, repeatedly. You can add that to the growing list of defense failures.


         
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        f2000 in reply to TargaGTS. | November 17, 2021 at 8:19 am

        Having said that, I also can’t imagine finding 12 people that would actually believe the prosecution’s case.


           
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          PhillyWatch in reply to f2000. | November 17, 2021 at 8:31 am

          Finding 12 reasonable people is pretty hard in this era of social media, biased main stream media reporting and elected government that believes critical race theory isn’t racism at it worst.


           
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          TargaGTS in reply to f2000. | November 17, 2021 at 8:42 am

          30-years ago, I couldn’t imagine they could find 12 people who would actually believe OJ wasn’t guilty AF. And yet, here we are. Mencken offered some insight about the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.

          (I hope the good people of Kenosha prove Mencken…and me…wrong.)

Now Binger is exposed for holding the best evidence from the court.


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to Elzorro. | November 17, 2021 at 8:23 am

    I don’t think that’s true. The mere fact that prosecution withheld the evidence can be used to raise doubt in the jurors’ minds: WHY was the phone NOT unlocked? WHY was Jump Kick Man never identified and pursued? WHY were the Ziminskis never called to testify?

    Obvious answer that raises doubt: they’d tell a story of innocence, not guilt. Defense raised those points, and Kraus whining about it in rebuttal only hurt them more.


       
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      Elzorro in reply to PhillyWatch. | November 17, 2021 at 8:54 am

      The only way Binger can get out of this is if it was disclosed to the defense earlier. I think it is a Brady violation and could be exculpatory and a violation of due process.

It is apparent that things really are what they appear to be.

Kyle is screwed and this judge will not dismiss anything with or without prejudice


 
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lurker9876 | November 17, 2021 at 7:47 am

Reports of “mystery bricks” showing up everywhere in Kenosha.


     
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    B__2 in reply to lurker9876. | November 17, 2021 at 9:31 pm

    You’ll know it’s a fix when pre-arranged clustered pre-stacked pallets of boots, skateboards, and Glock pistols turn up all over Kenosha on the evening of the verdict being delivered.


 
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lurker9876 | November 17, 2021 at 7:51 am

Live channels for Kenosha and surrounding areas for sheriff, rescue, fire dispatch, BUT

Police dispatch, fire incident, police and fire, pleasant prairie police dispatch – all offline. Overnight offline?

Today is going to be interesting.

Didn’t BLAMTIFA tell us that if Biden wins, they will stop the riots, looting, and arson? Oh wait…


 
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TargaGTS | November 17, 2021 at 8:03 am

If the report out of local radio in Milwaukee is accurate, there is absolutely NO WAY the state didn’t know exactly who ‘jump kick man’ was. The man has multiple recent criminal convictions that were prosecuted by Binger. Heck, they might have been prosecuted by Binger or Krause themselves.

https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2021-11-16-the-disturbing-story-of-the-rittenhouse-cases-mysterious-jump-kick-man/


     
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    Elzorro in reply to TargaGTS. | November 17, 2021 at 8:11 am

    Yellow Pants too.


     
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    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to TargaGTS. | November 17, 2021 at 8:38 am

    The paragraph that stood out to me is “Sources indicate that he contacted prosecutors and offered to testify, but in exchange requested immunity from an ongoing drunk driving and domestic abuse case with which he was charged in June. Prosecutors declined his offer and chose not to call him as a witness in the Rittenhouse case.”

    If that’s true then there’s no way any conviction can stand unless the prosecution did in fact provide the name to the defence. I can’t imagine they did, the defence would’ve had him testify.

Definitely more pessimistic today, as hard as that is to believe… even for me


     
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    PhillyWatch in reply to lurker9876. | November 17, 2021 at 8:38 am

    If this is true…I’d want a mistrial. In view of all the other prosecutorial misconduct on display here, without prejudice.

    It puts the judge in a tough spot to decide on such an emotional case in this fashion, but it’s the only fair way to decide it in the face of such overwhelming lack of evidence against self defense.

    I’d also say start disbarment proceedings for Binger and Kraus. There has to be a penalty for this kind of injustice.


     
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    Elzorro in reply to lurker9876. | November 17, 2021 at 8:41 am

    This can not stand it is intentional and malicious both prosecutors should be arrested and clapped in jail today.


 
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SuddenlyHappyToBeHere | November 17, 2021 at 8:37 am

Why are folks assuming the veracity of Posobiec’s claim that “two jurors” are holding up a verdict? Or that they are afraid of backlash? Merely writing that it is “per US Marshalls” is just nonsense for such a dramatic claim.

Why is the defense not filing a Brady violation dismissal appeal for the “jump-kick-guy”? There is no way the prosecution didn’t know who it was. Withholding that information from the defense is a glaring violation.


     
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    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to Terr. | November 17, 2021 at 8:57 am

    The news only came out overnight and the defence haven’t spoken to the judge yet today. I suspect they’ll want to raise the issue in court to establish facts prior to filing motions.


       
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      Elzorro in reply to AnAdultInDiapers. | November 17, 2021 at 9:11 am

      This surely undermines confidence in the outcome of the trial and verdict. It would mean Binger was calling these principals fake names like yellow pants and drop kick. That leads me to think he must have informed the defense and they agreed to it? Even Binger could not have been this stupid.


         
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        LetsGoBrandon in reply to Elzorro. | November 17, 2021 at 9:27 am

        Unfortunately, yeah, Binger could be that stupid.

        Alternatively, let’s say the DA told Binger to prosecute and (not likely) Binger told the DA, there is no case. The DA said to prosecute anyway. Binger has been doing a bang up job of presenting no evidence that a reasonable person could use to go against self defense. Could he be sabotaging his own case intentionally? Doubtful, but possible.


     
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    Elzorro in reply to Terr. | November 17, 2021 at 8:59 am

    Dunno. Looking fwd to finding out.


     
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    Elzorro in reply to Terr. | November 17, 2021 at 9:04 am

    Further, in cases subsequent to Brady, the Supreme Court has eliminated the requirement for a defendant to have requested a favorable information, stating that the Prosecution has a constitutional duty to disclose, that is triggered by the potential impact of favorable but undisclosed evidence See Kyles v. Whitley 514 U.S. 419, 434 (1955); United States. v. Bagley, 473 U.S. 667 (1985).


     
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    jagibbons in reply to Terr. | November 17, 2021 at 10:19 am

    This case reeks of prosecutorial misconduct. Binger should be the one on trial next.

Judge: I have received the defense motion for mistrial with prejudice for the prosecution withholding high resolution images that were the cornerstone of its claimed evidence in the case. Mr. Binger, will you please remain in the Courtroom? Bailiff, can you bring me that skateboard…?


 
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pmpalmiero | November 17, 2021 at 10:48 am

Why doesn’t the judge order the police to establish a perimeter of lets say 2 blocks around the courthouse to protect the jurors and to keep the threats out of the ears of jurors?


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 17, 2021 at 12:07 pm

Jury wants to see videos – not a good sign


 
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LetsGoBrandon | November 17, 2021 at 12:16 pm

Why don’t the defense lawyers have their computers with them???


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