Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH Day 3: Jury Focusing In On Controversial Drone Video, Provocation Issue
Yesterday’s request by the jury to view controversial drone video suggests they are focusing on provocation issue; if they believe that is proven, then self-defense is arguably off the table for Kyle Rittenhouse
Welcome to our ongoing coverage of the Kyle Rittenhouse trial! This is our VERDICT WATCH post, where we will share any fast-breaking news on verdicts and other events around the jury deliberations which begin today.
For those who missed the closing arguments, or our prior VERDICT WATCH and end-of-day jury deliberation analysis, here is the coverage:
- Rittenhouse Trial Mayhem – Courtroom Fights Over Videos and Mistrial As Jury Deliberates
- Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH Day 2: Defense Files For Mistrial With Prejudice (11/17/21)
- Rittenhouse VERDICT WATCH (11/16/21)
- Rittenhouse Trial: Big Wins for Defense on Jury Instructions, State Leads with Provocation
- LIVE: Rittenhouse Trial Day 10: Closing Arguments
- Rittenhouse Trial: Defense Delivers Disappointingly Weak Closing Argument
(refresh page for updates; most recent on top, all times Central time)
4:09 p.m.: Court adjourned for the day, no verdict, back at 9:00 am tomorrow.
1:07 p.m.: Court broadcast feed just went down, seems all channels.
11:56 a.m.: Preceding court session involved a NBC reporter caught following the jury bus. Judge has thrown NBC generally out of the courthouse.
11:23 a.m.: Parties in court, judge on bench, something is up.
11:21 a.m.: Interesting news story from 2015, man killed by skateboard:
11:10 a.m.: The jury note from yesterday, requesting access to drone video, just brought to my attention:
10:12 a.m.: Occasional glimpses of judge at edge of frame.
10:00 a.m.: Tick-tock, tick-tock.
9:41 a.m.: Judge momentarily on camera.
9:20 a.m.: Well, don’t know, still waiting.
9:11 a.m.: Typed too soon, motion in the courtroom, judge at bench.
9:10 a.m.: Nothing happening yet.
8:00 a.m.: Waiting for jury deliberations to start up for the day at about 9:00 a.m.
I encourage you to bookmark or just leave open in your browser, but you will have to refresh for updates.
Until next time:
You carry a gun so you’re hard to kill.
Know the law so you’re hard to convict.
Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LLC
Nothing in this content constitutes legal advice. Nothing in this content establishes an attorney-client relationship, nor confidentiality. If you are in immediate need of legal advice, retain a licensed, competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction.
Donations tax deductible
to the full extent allowed by law.
In regards to jury requesting slo-mo video Oliver Wendell Holmes in Brown v US wrote:
“that if a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not exceed the bounds of lawful self-defense.”
In writing the opinion, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes stated that “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
Juror(s) are Monday morning quarterbacking what KR did while seated conformfably on their fat butts eating takeout on the state! Despicable!
The Green Bay Sheeple.
In fairness to the jurors, they received a compulsory summons and effectively, were “press ganged” to serve on this jury.
With very few exceptions, the jurors accepted this assignment as a civic duty, and with not a whole lot of enthusiasm.
Of course, as the founders recognized, reluctant citizen jurors still are superior in every way as judges of the facts compared with government stooges, who are just there to do the sovereign’s bidding.
In Stalinist Russia, three party officials — the so-called ‘troikas’ — would decide your fate, including the penalty of death, in a mere matter of minutes.
“reluctant citizen jurors still are superior in every way as judges of the facts compared with government stooges, who are just there to do the sovereign’s bidding.”
That should be true, but we are now seeing that jurors can be – and now routinely are – doxxed. We have to find a way to stop this: the jury box is the 3rd of the 4 boxes. If that goes, you are down to the cartridge box…
Doxxing is a new-fangled version of old-fashioned jury tampering.
It’s a felony.
It subverts the whole justice system.
It needs to be rooted out and punished, severely.
But, it will not be. It does not suit those in power for this to happen. So, they’re pet dogs, the ones in uniform with the badges in the guns, will stand down and just watch what happens. Does anybody like this? Nobody with common sense does, no.
My idea to fix the problem(s): abolish the state.
No victim. No crime.
Tomorrow is a double Sun and Noon Eclipse. Something may happen
Thor shows up with Hammer?
A proper jury instruction in this case and we would have had a not guilty verdict just as soon as the jury had been provided their free lunch. The instructions would have been quite lengthy but all the jury would have had to do was start at the top and run down the list, bam, bam, bam.
Watching you on the Rekieta stream. To conflate commentary on in home self defense and citizens arrest – What are the consequences of chasing burglar out of your house and claim citizens arrest?
4:45 pm . . . WHERE IS THE JURY ?
Calendar will decide this … Thanksgiving coming up soon. 4 business days.
IMO they are in the jury room looking at and playing with ‘The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree” that will acquit Kyle in the end and save him from these immoderate leftist monsters.
5:00 pm . . WHERE IS THE JURY ? ?
4pm in wisconsin.
“working 9 to 4…”
it’s not like it’s important or anything.
Jurors are allowed to take jury instructions home? Really? That seems….odd.
When I was on a jury we were not allowed to take anything out of the deliberation room in the evening that we didn’t bring in with us in the morning.
I had the same exact experience.
The judge should have asked Karen if she wrote notes on her copy of the instructions. If she did she should definitely not have been allowed to take them home.
When I was on a jury the court provided notepads for notes and those notepads could not leave the deliberation room.
That was my immediate thought too.
I’m also confused just how the instructions will help her at home, when she doesn’t have access to any of the evidence and isn’t meant to be looking anything up online.
What do you bet she returns tomorrow armed with new information the other jurors absolutely must listen to, look, it shows she’s been right all along!
I think the argument is “If we don’t let her take the instructions home, she’s going to look them up on the internet anyway, and wind up being possibly exposed to more corrupting opinions.
It’s not a great argument (I think we have to assume that she’s honest, since she’s even asking the question in the first place), but I can see how the Judge might come to that conclusion.
The defense should demand to see those instructions tomorrow. My concern would be that they’re taking the jury instructions home, then writing notes on them after watching CNN and MSNBC.
Karen wants to take the jury instructions home so she can study them.
Are we now seeing the jurors playing “let’s make a deal?” … or “10 Angry Jurors and 2 Karens/”
Does any video show Kyle pointing carbine prior to being chased? If it doesn’t then what could they be looking for?
No, because it never happened
Kyle’s life is in the balance and this judge is over the moon ‘the greatest legal minds in the country’ also find the jury instructions confusing? This guy can’t stop reading his own press…during a trial. It’s unbelievable.
these turds deliberate from 9am to 4pm and go home?
make a decision ! If YOU can’t figure out if someone was being threatened after 3 days of slow motion zoomed in deliberation .. that’s reasonable doubt !!!
Yes, but I don’t think anyone is undecided in there. I think there are 2 entrenched sides trying to get the others to come over.
The two mask Karens on one side. They want at least one guilty verdict on at least one count. They want Kyle in prison.
Everyone else NG on all counts side.
Seems likely to me.
No kidding. My bank has longer hours than this jury. They should be there until they get a verdict. Bring in the cots if they want to spend the night.
This juror is out of her mind! and it has to be a her! A masked Karen who wants to get her Karen friends advice.
Proof she is a total idiot that can not understand rules. They know they must leave it all in the ring I mean jury room.
5:15 pm – JUDGE DISMISSED COURT FOR THE DAY
>> STILL NO VERDICT – OR RULINGS ON MOTIONS TO DISMISS
Calendar will decide this case. Jurors who holdout till Thanksgiving will prevail.
Jesus shut up and stop spamming.
He just made comment on “confusing” jury instructions?! WTF? He gave those “confusing” instructions – that’s on him!
JUROR # 54 SAID, “I KNOW SOME OF THE WITNESSES”
During Voire Dire – Juror #54 said she knows some of those on the witness list but claimed to be able to objective.
WHO ON THE WITNESS LIST DOES JUROR # 54 KNOW ?
> > This was never revealed. Seems highly relevant.
And 54 is the foreKaren…
In my jurisdiction, this is an excuse for cause.
In other words, it’s automatic.
A juror can not be personally familiar with any of the parties or witnesses.
That is absolutely, categorically forbidden.
If true, this is a big-a$$ problem and casts serious doubt on the fundamental fairness of the entire trial.
Prolly a friend of ADA Chumley.
Don’t insult one of the best cartoon characters of my childhood on that lying POS ADA. “But gee Tennessee….”.
Even if there’s cause, one of the sides would have to seek to have her excused. Perhaps Binger thought she would be good for his side, and the defense was clueless on how to pick a jury in a murder trial.
Having picked upwards of 100 juries in my time, and given that it’s an adversarial process, it’s inconceivable to me that you would permit an juror with personal knowledge on the case.
It’s pure poison.
It’s not something that competent counsel on either side would overlook.
That was my one and only experience When picked for jury duty
I grew up next to a farm where the arresting officer grew up.
Ended my jury duty with one question asked of me
For the people who have watched most of the trial, has anyone seen any kangaroos in the courtroom?
Seems like they’d be comfortable there. Very comfortable.
Lots of em/ as we resort to gallows humor. Our CJS is an international laughingstock now.
For more info on JUROR #54 – Look at comments made on this thread at 3:54 pm. And the responses to the comment. There is also a copy of Andrew Branca’s notes from the voire dire in which #54 says she knows some of the witnesses. Wow.
Defense doesn’t have exclusive choice of jurors and there’s limits to how many you can toss as you winnow down from the available pool. Each party should wind up swallowing a few troublesome jurors if it ends up fair.
But if this #54 gives one hint of bias due to knowing one of the witnesses, I can only hope there’s another one there with the cajones to make a stink of it and then ask the bailiff to see the judge.
She’s probably Grosskreutz’ GF. They met at his anarchist’s society meeting, where they locked eyes over doughnuts and weed.
One of the Normies had Big Karen in a figure 4 leg lock but then a SJW Soy Boy jumped off the top rope and broke a chair over his head. That is why they went home early. Plus the janitor needs time to clean the mess up in the ring.
They knocked off early today. 4:09 their time. That suggests they are nowhere near a decision.
So if they don’t get one tomorrow… Saturday or Monday?
Maybe was a move to avoid the mob waiting for the jury bus.
Does the jury know about the following incident last night? In any event, it also wouldn’t be surprising if one or more of the women didn’t feel comfortable driving home (possibly alone) in the dead of night given the crowds and the media attention. If they leave when they did, at least there’s a hint of daylight still left.
They need to get home early because the kids aren’t at school. For some reason.
He ought to make them work Saturday AND Sunday
This is Wisconsin, right. Who works Sat or Sun ?
The judge had both sides working the last weekend writing up instructions.
So, will we see another motion or amended motion to dismissed based on the prosecution’s knowing hiding of the identity of “drop kick man”?
Should have sequestered the jurors and made them deliberate 10-12 hours a day. This is just ridiculous and the judge allowing the blown up video clip into evidence so the prosecution could pull “provocation” against Ziminski out of his hat is infuriating. Little Binger could have had Ziminski testify for but he was a known liar so that nixed that. That is what the Karen juror is clinging to b/c that was all the state had.
This will be done in the next trial.
A verdict seems highly unlikely at this point.
The number of jurors (9 or 10?) inclined to NG verdict are now SO PISSED at the Karen foreperson that there is no way she’s gonna change any of their minds…that’s why they broke early today…they can’t stand to be in the same room with her anymore today
My guess – its Juror #54. See Prior post at 3:53 pm today – notes from Andrew Branca
During voire dire she said that she “knows some of the witnesses” – which ones ? ? How did she slip on to the jury if she knows people involved in the case ?
And she loves it. The powergasms are heaven on Earth.
And tomorrow morning they will be lectured on the finer points of the jury instructions she highlighted in pink last night in her copy.
Judge Norton will give them Turkey day off. It will come down to a staring match between Big Karen and a US Patriot at opposite ends of the jury table while the rest play poker or old maid. This could go on for weeks once they dig in.
The judge shouldn’t let it go on that long.
He should not let the holiday break influence a verdict.
He should declare a hung jury by the end of the day Tuesday, at the latest. Also, he has plenty of other reasons to justify declaring a mistrial.
The judge is called Schroeder. You may be commenting on the wrong case.
Nickname for the judge. Norton as in Ed Norton from The Honeymooners.
With respect, the nickname can be very confusing to at least some of us. Especially all the antiques like me. Just saying…
Just grab her by the…..mask… They just let you, it’s great ..
And for those that don’t know how to put a Karen (AWFUL) in her place:
1. Let he ramble on about how persecuted she is
2. Bring up how every terrible thing done to POC over the last few centuries was by white men for white women
3. When she starts to tear up, grab her by the… mask, and tell her to STFU men are talking
I’m loving that scenario…but for the fact that that long of a delay would be horribly unfair to Kyle
And one (or more) Patriot jurors would hold out for NG verdict just ‘to spit in her eye’, no matter how many jurors she might flip !!
Big Karen ID…she is the daughter of Rosa Klebb ….from Russia with love.
I”d hold out for one of the really bitter cold days, with a nice moist wind chill, and then agree to recommend we cite Kyle for jaywalking, or using the ‘incorrect’ pronoun to address one of the BLM or Antifa scum. That way, protesters could decide if they really feel strongly about their cause, or really just want their blankie and some hot cocoa.
Or ride ’em like a pony until they cough up something to use against them, like they were planted by Flufferboy2004 or the fatty. Then, when it’s over, do a media circus and doxx her/him/it.
What is Foreman Karen going to do when she gets home and sees all the write ups of how everyone knows she is a Karen based on her C U Next Tuesday writing and grammar style?
Terrible sentence sorry 🙂
Don’t you know her blood will boil tonight!!
The other jurors will certainly be paying close attention to see if she says anything tomorrow about going on the Internet to ‘research’ something about the jury instructions…they will get in line to bust her out to the judge for going against his end-of-day instructions!!
I love your sentence ‘structure’!!
So, in this day and age, why do jurors have to be physically present in a courtroom for a trial where everyone knows the left is going to try to threaten and intimidate them into giving a particular verdict?
I suppose there would be difficulties, and it wouldn’t work if a juror wanted to handle a particular piece of evidence, but there would have to be a lot more downside than that to outweigh death threats on the way to the parking lot.
Setting aside whether or not ‘remote jurying’ is a good or bad idea, there’s so much controlling legal precedent about how the jury is to deliberate, it’s highly unlikely the judge could adopt a novel approach like that and have the case survive appellate review.
How will taking home the jury instructions home benefit the forekaren and the jury?
It will just help forekaren emasculate her cuck husband if front of her children, from her previous boyfriend
Mark Richards now thinks it is a 6-6 split after 3 days.
With 7 possible femdoms in there that could be true.
cracker jacks box
I do not know where Mark Richard got the information but that is what he told the reporters in a “I think that the jury is split 6 – 6 way.”
My read on the the judge’s “Day of Reckoning” quote is he let the video in because it didn’t show squat. Now, with the jury definitely deliberating over the video, he knows that if he is found guilty, the prosecution pulled a fast one with the evidence and used the power of suggestion to get the jury to believe his lies.
The reckoning is a mistrial over the video. However, the judge is praying for an acquittal to avoid having to make that decision.
I definitely see your point and think it’s well-reasoned. But after watching this guy for three weeks, I honestly don’t know if he thinks that far ahead. He seems way more curious about what people (talking heads on TV) are saying about decisions he made the day before rather than what the impact of his decisions (or lack thereof) will mean a week or two later. He just doesn’t strike me as a 4D chess guy.
I REALLY hope I’m wrong.
Viva [email protected]
They may have said that, it doesn’t mean it’s true. It might be more their perception of the delay than anything else. I can not believe, for the life of me, that the jury could be anywhere near that split.
the country is as split as I’ve ever seen, so why should we expect a unanimous jury ?
Six idiots, willing to put this kid in jail to be murdered for having the courage to do a job the police defused to do
If you follow the thread, you’ll see more details about who shot when. It was Ziminski that shot first plus an unknown shooter that fired three shots towards Kyle…All before Kyle’s first shot.
Quid pro WUT?
Clearly he has a better lawyer than Dominick Black (“I didn’t make you any offers in exchange for this testimony today, did I?”). Just dismiss the charges before the testimony happens, and you don’t have to even raise the question (Not sure if this is actually true or whether Richards and Chirafisi have the right to know about it even if ‘unrelated’ to their case).
I really do not think that this video carries as much credibility as the witness testimony. I think it is curious that this drone just “happened” to be there at the right time.