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Democrats and media blew up all norms to get Trump, and shouldn’t lecture about election contests

Democrats and media blew up all norms to get Trump, and shouldn’t lecture about election contests

“You maniacs, you blew it up.” There are no norms left. Democrats and the media burned them all to the ground in the scorched earth attack on Trump that started before the 2016 election and continued without interruption through Election Day 2020.

The Trump campaign and various allied Republicans are contesting the results of the presidential election in several key swing states, particularly Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona. Some court cases have been filed, but the promise of more substantial legal efforts are in the offing.

On November 5, I urged Republicans to Stay the course on election contests and litigation – Almost 70 million Trump voters deserve the effort, but cautioned:

At the end of the day, which could be just days or weeks away, we’ll know if Trump and his team have the goods. Almost 70 million Trump voters deserve the effort.

I also pointed out on November 7 that people should be realistic about the high hurdles to success whether in recounts or litigation, You are not alone, you have over 70 million friends:

So it’s not over, but we have to be honest with ourselves that it remains a longshot. Trump needs hard evidence of major fraud, miscount, or computer malfunction to prevail in court. A specific category of ballot that was not legally cast is going to have to be identified, and it’s going to have to be in a sufficient quantity to make a difference.

Again on November 9, I emphasized to Stay focused on the prize:

Folks, stay focused. Trump needs to find votes through recount or other vote count irregularity, or find a court to rule that specific categories of ballots were unlawfully cast, whether through fraud or contrary to election law. That’s the prize. Focus on the prize.

All that background and caution brings us to today.

Today Rudy Guliani and Sidney Powell held a news conference. Rudy laid out what he says affidavits and other evidence gathered shows about specific allegations of voter fraud, potentially involving tens or hundreds of thousands of votes. Those affidavits are not all public, with the understandable claim that the people involved fear retribution from the same Democrat supporters who have been attacking people physically and via online campaigns. That evidence is going to have to be submitted to a court soon, the clock is ticking.

The problem with the voter fraud as related by Rudy is that, by his own account, the illegal votes have become merged with the legal votes because numerous safeguards were eliminated or not followed. What Rudy appears to be left with is possible proof of widespread fraud, but no clear remedy. No judge or panel of judges is going to throw out several hundred thousand votes in the City of Philadelphia just because some of the votes were fraudulent. If the election was stolen, it was stolen in pre-election procedure and election night process, and there may be no lawful remedy other than the ballot box in 2022 and 2024.

Unlike Rudy, Sidney Powell offered few specifics. She has a unified theory of election software and hardware fraud that spans numerous countries, possibly “three-letter agencies,” and an election night execution of a preexisting plan across several jurisdictions. But something being possible is not the same thing as proof that it did happen. Powell says she has proof it happened, but she offered no details today. It would shake our system to the core if such evidence exists and is provable, but I don’t think people should get their hopes up. Prove me wrong, please, I’m practically begging her to do so, but in the end, she is going to need proof, not conjecture.

The Democrat and media reaction is to dismiss this effort as insane conspiracy theories not worthy of consideration. Challenging the election and refusing to “concede” is called a breach of all norms.

Excuse me, but there are no norms left. Democrats and the media burned them all to the ground in the scorched earth attack on Trump that started before the 2016 election and continued without interruption through Election Day 2020.

Remember when The Resistance doxxed electoral college electors after the 2016 election in an effort to coerce them into changing their votes, when Democrat politician declared the election stolen because the Russians took out Facebook ads, when many Democrats boycotted the inauguration and the first State of the Union Address? Or when Democrats rioted in D.C. during the inauguration? And how Democrat politicians have justified and in some cases encouraged attacks on Trump supporters, who in many big cities are now hunted for sport. I remember.

I’m so old, I remember when Democrats hired a foreign ex-intelligence agent to collude with the Russians to produce a phony dossier asserting, among other false things, Trump paid hookers to pee on a bed in Moscow because Obama once slept on it, then leaked those details to the media in collusion with the Director of the FBI, who himself went to the White House to meet the newly elected president Trump in order to set him up and create a pretext for leaking the dossier. Even before the election, Democrats and the media claimed unsavory ties between Trump and the Russians, and the Russia collusion assertion led to several years of efforts to paralyze the Trump administration, with once reputable law professors and political pundits throwing around accusations of treason that earned them reliable bookings on MSNBC and CNN, book deals, and hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers.

I’m even so old that I remember how almost weekly major newspapers like the NY Times and Washington Post would roll out serial “bombshells” showing Trump illegal or unethical conduct in office based on anonymous supposed intelligence and “senior administration sources familiar the matter” — yet time and again the bombshell turned out to be a dud, to be followed by a new bombshell as the prior one faded. This created a continuous crisis news cycle. I don’t believe these sources existed, or if they did, they were not as described, like the supposedly “senior” administration official who wrote an anonymous op-ed in the NY Times, only to reveal himself recently as a not so senior DHS official who didn’t even serve in the White House or in a position to be close to Trump. The NY Times used his anonymity to create the false narrative of a senior official close to Trump ready to spill the beans — if the Times deceived the public about that, nothing it says about anonymous sources close to Trump should be believed.

I’m also old enough to remember how Obama holdovers in the permanent bureaucracy leaked transcripts of diplomatic conversations between Trump and foreign leaders early in the administration, causing a serious breach of the president’s ability to conduct the nation’s business. Those same permanent bureaucrats continued to leak and conspire for years.

Believe it or not, I’m also old enough to remember when Democrats and the media told us Trump was sending his unmarked stormtroopers to scoop “mostly peaceful” protesters off city streets, but none of that was true. Or when we had a multi-week Democrat and media frenzy about how Trump’s goons supposedly were eliminating postal boxes throughout the country to prevent people from mailing in ballots, when it turned out that the images were of routine rotation of mail drop boxes.

And how big tech giants and mainstream media openly silenced important information about Biden family influence peddling.

I could go on and on and on. Read through our Trump Derangement Syndrome Tag for hundreds of examples. And almost all of it was aided and abetted by Never Trump Republicans.

So don’t lecture me about how Trump and his supporters are violating all norms of behavior expected of presidential administrations.

Democrat and media maniacs blew up all norms.

So I’m going to sit back and watch the election contests that are going on right now. Stay the course. If the evidence is there, it’s there. If it’s not, it’s not. We’ll abide by court decisions, but until those legal efforts are exhausted, there is no reason to listen to the people who defiled and destroyed everything they touched in their scorched earth effort to get Trump.

[Featured Image: Closing scene from Planet of the Apes]


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A pox on both their houses.
Glad I’m an independent.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to BAB. | November 19, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Giuliani Highlights Vote Fraud as Well as Corporate Media Corruption in Fiery Press Conference
    This is a coup.

    This is no longer America.

    During a press conference Thursday, President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani scorched the corporate media for refusing to cover what he called “a massive attack on the integrity of the voting system” in the United States.
    The Trump Campaign hosted the presser at RNC headquarters in Washington, D.C. with Giuliani, Trump Campaign Legal Advisor Jenna Ellis, and Trump lawyer Sidney Powell.

    Throughout the news conference, Giuliani blasted the MSM for going along with the ruse that Democrat Joe Biden won the 2020 election fair and square amid mounting evidence of massive election fraud. He also chastised them for refusing to cover or condemn threats and harassment against witnesses of the fraud and lawyers on Trump�s legal team. “It’s tolerated because YOU condone it in the press and you don’t cover it and you don’t condemn it,” he charged.

    Giuliani said that that the only reason Democrat Joe Biden got more votes than President Trump is because thousands of illegal ballots were produced and allowed to be used after the election was over. “Give us an opportunity to prove it in court, and we will,” Giuliani promised.

    The former New York Mayor informed reporters that his team has gathered a vast amount of evidence that points to a conspiracy involving multiple states that was executed from a centralized location.

    “This was not a singular [case] of voter fraud in just one state,” Giuliani said. “This pattern repeats itself in a number of states. Almost exactly the same pattern which any experienced investigator, prosecutor would suggest that there was a plan from a centralized place to execute these various acts of voter fraud specifically focused on big cities and specifically focused on, as you can imagine, big cities controlled by Democrats, and particularly focused on big cities that have a long history of corruption.” He noted that the number of voter fraud cases in Philadelphia alone “could fill a library.”

    In Pennsylvania, Giuliani pointed out, the margin of “victory” for Biden was 69,140 votes, but there were 682,770 mail-in ballots that the Democrat machines in Pittsburgh and Philly did not allow to be inspected before they were entered into the vote.

    “Mail ballots are particularly prone to fraud,” Giuliani said, going on to note that the absent-minded Biden actually admitted a few days before the election “that he had the best voter fraud team in the world.”

      Dream on. Giuliani can’t prove it in court with admissible evidence. It’s too late.

        Well, if it is all about “the good of the country,” he will and should be allowed to. If not, then evil wins.

        Citing that the “Resistance” “doxxed electoral college electors after the 2016 election in an effort to coerce them” is a good point.

        But they were making a point about popular votes being paramount over the obsolete and archaic EC (installed in 1883 to placate slave holding states). Additionally Michael Moore is a comedian/pundit, not the president of the US.

        And “Democrats rioting”? That was a small group of Antifa thugs who would be hard pressed to call themselves “Democrats”.

        The “unsavory ties between Trump and the Russians, and the Russia” were well documented in the Trump tower meeting. That no other glaring smoking gun was produced didn’t mean it wasn’t true, with ample circumstantial evidence….and proof of obstruction by the president and the Republican congress.

        Mailboxes were indeed removed (and some rotated) – supposedly because “for efficiency and lower mail volume” related to the COVID-19 pandemic.”

        Regarding Giuliani’s affidavits – non as of yet have yielded any evidence. All have been petty complaints (too noisy, mean looks) or hearsay (they heard that someone saw something suspicious). None are serious enough to engender perjury, so they have no weight whatsoever.

    Colonel Travis in reply to BAB. | November 20, 2020 at 12:41 am

    You realize that while one house is stupid, the other house is dangerous? And that there is no other house available to stop the dangerous one?

    kjon in reply to BAB. | November 20, 2020 at 8:43 am

    I’m not sure what being independent does for anyone. An independent gets the same choices as non-independents and suffer the same consequences.

      Bisley in reply to kjon. | November 20, 2020 at 10:02 am

      Amen to that. With a few exceptions, I despise the stupid, lying, corrupt and cowardly Republicans — but I fear the stupid, lying, corrupt and Marxist Democrats.

      Trump is all that stands between us and perpetual socialist rule (if they get by with stealing this election, they will position themselves to steal all future ones). I pray that his lawyers draw judges non-political enough to hear their cases, and grant discovery to develop incontrovertible proof of the industrial-scale fraud. Trump won this election, but the courts may, or may not, allow him to prove it.

    D38999 in reply to BAB. | November 21, 2020 at 1:46 pm

    A smallpox/Ebola chimera…

Honestly, if a vote count is corrupt, it should be thrown out, if only to give the constituents an incentive to see that their processes are fixed for next time.

Otherwise we will continue to have tainted tally after tainted tally.

We had our house in order. Time for then to grow up.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Voyager. | November 19, 2020 at 10:40 pm


    The Biden-Harris Nationwide Election Fraud Scheme to Steal the Ballot State by State Prohibits Them from Winning the Race


    When wholesale fraud and corruption and criminality are employed to steal the quadrennial POTUS election by one of the two major party candidates, the victor automatically becomes the other presidential nominee with the greatest number of electoral votes.


      There is the minor technicality of properly proving it in court. Regardless of the truth, the President at this late date can’t translate what happened into admissible evidence, so…it’s all over. The Republicans should have started aggressively defending the voting system years ago, but they didn’t have the brains and guts to do so. (They talked about it though.)

        Your argument is that you have to prove a murder before the murder??? Trump had to wait until the wholesale fraud happened before trying to reverse it in court.

        henrybowman in reply to Connivin Caniff. | November 22, 2020 at 12:30 am

        “the President at this late date can’t translate what happened into admissible evidence”

        Sez you. According to Gore precedent, he has three whole weeks more to line his ducks up in front of the blackrobes. I’m waitin’ for the fun to start.

Subotai Bahadur | November 19, 2020 at 9:13 pm

The biggest cost is that from now on NO election can be assumed to be legitimate. And both sides will act accordingly.

Subotai Bahadur

    There are several parts of the bureaucracy that are tainted. The DOJ (for not prosecuting Hilary, not even having her testify under oath), FBI (an unwarranted presidential investigation, FISA warrant abuse, the courts (Michael Flynn (crossing the line from judge to prosecutor, and an appellant court backing it up), Obama care(instituting a tax when the word is never mentioned in the bill), and giving the general impression that the court is political by finding new constitutional rights not mentioned in the constitution and better left to the legislators. There is much to repair and it will be a hard road to do so.

    All governments are held together by TRUST. When the citizens no longer trust their government then chaos reigns (also known as anarchy) which leads to revolution (read Crane Brinton’s “Anatomy of a Revolution”). What is made worse is citizens no longer trust the medical professionals, science, education, media, law, etc..

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Ronbert. | November 20, 2020 at 3:43 pm

      “All governments are held together by TRUST.”

      I disagree. Many are held together by fear. I hope my assertion is never proven in America.

A certain amount of rodent feces and hair are found and allowable in food production.

Elections are no different.
Some level of fraud is to be expected. There isn’t enough in this election to change the result.

If Trump is looking for the reason he lost, he just has to look in a mirror.

    Big Red Dog in reply to BAB. | November 19, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    And that is just what they want you to believe…

    Just like when they wanted you to believe there wasn’t any spying on Trump…

    Paul in reply to BAB. | November 19, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Fuck off troll. You’re full of shit, spouting nonsense as if it is truth. Hide behind your keyboard, punk. Hide.

    UserP in reply to BAB. | November 20, 2020 at 12:38 am

    A certain amount of rodent feces and hair are found and allowable in posts on this blog otherwise your post would be deleted.

    kjon in reply to BAB. | November 20, 2020 at 9:00 am

    That will be up to the courts to decide but just like 2016 there will be many who do not accept the decision no matter what. The question is how will the losers react?

    olhardhead in reply to BAB. | November 21, 2020 at 10:03 am

    So, finding a dead elephant in your can of beans is ok with you…Right?

    henrybowman in reply to BAB. | November 22, 2020 at 12:32 am

    I hope the dumps rodents take in your personal food are proportional to the dumps of phony Biden votes that polluted this election.

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | November 19, 2020 at 9:35 pm

Tucker Carlson blasting the social media monopolies forming a Censorship Cartel, and basically making the case for ……

an uprising against the ruling class, is great.

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | November 19, 2020 at 9:37 pm

Proof is in.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WON in a 50 STATE landslide.

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | November 19, 2020 at 9:45 pm

Feel RL’s comment from an earlier thread belongs here also.

Recovering Lutheran | November 19, 2020 at 7:23 pm

“Senate Republicans are racing ahead with post-election judicial confirmations, breaking a 123-year tradition against voting on judicial nominees of an outgoing president of the defeated party during a lame duck session.”

Joe Biden did not win the election. He and his Party may seize power in January, but he is illegitimate from the start.

And it is weird when the Joseph Goebbels media – which refused to concede the 2016 presidential election, openly calls for mass arrests and even violence against Trump supporters, encourages unelected bureaucrats and high ranking military officers to ignore the legal commands of elected officials, calls raping, rioting, burning and looting by leftist mobs “mostly peaceful protests” – is suddenly worried about preserving traditions.

Perhaps if the media stopped trying to get anyone who disagrees with them killed they would receive more of a sympathetic hearing….,,

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | November 19, 2020 at 10:18 pm

Democratic state politician told a female Republican election official to “think about your kids”………

….. and named their likely school,

amid a tense stand-off on Tuesday night that briefly saw vote totals in Michigan….

“Challenging the election and refusing to “concede” is called a breach of all norms.”

Heres a norm: Al Gore didn’t concede the election until December 16.

We’ve got three more weeks of norm, and then some.

The Trump strategy with his legal team is to #StopTheSteal using the law, our courts, and his civilian attorneys. Bringing the DoJ/fbi in too early would draw howling from the left about “weaponized government agencies” and “political persecution.” That amount of irony could prove to be more than most sane people could bear. After the fraud is exposed and the election is secured, the indictments, arrests and prosecutions will commence. I expect a lot of the low and mid-level actors will roll on the upper level criminals, if for no other reason than an attempt to escape infamy.

“The problem with the voter fraud as related by Rudy is that, by his own account, the illegal votes have become merged with the legal votes because numerous safeguards were eliminated or not followed. What Rudy appears to be left with is possible proof of widespread fraud, but no clear remedy. No judge or panel of judges is going to throw out several hundred thousand votes in the City of Philadelphia just because some of the votes were fraudulent. If the election was stolen, it was stolen in pre-election procedure and election night process, and there may be no lawful remedy other than the ballot box in 2022 and 2024.”

First, there are all kinds of “legal” remedies to a tainted vote pool. And, many more can be introduced by a court. The problem with waiting for two or four years, is that the Republic will not survive. At least in any recognizable form.

Now, as we honor the rule of law, upon which this nation was founded, we will go the legal route and present the case to the courts. The problem is not a lack of evidence. There is a plethora of documented evidence of actual election law violations. And, there is a mound of circumstantial evidence that vote fraud actually occurred AND in amounts which very likely swung the election from Trump to Biden. The problem is that the courts can not be trusted to be impartial arbiters of the law. What the last decade has proven is that none of our government institutions can be trusted. So, there is a good chance that political considerations will result in the courts dismissing all the evidence of fraud and refusing to render justice in this case. There is also a time problem. It takes time to do an effective investigation and there is simply not enough time to do a comprehensive investigation of the extent of the fraud which occurred here. And this leads us to the real problem. If the system refuses to render justice, where will the population which supported Trump go for that justice?

The same place that the Liberal Progressives and Dems have already gone, outside the law. And, we have a template which sets out the procedure and justification for such action; The Declaration of Independence. B y their extra-legal actions, the Establishment has released the Kraken. Not Sydney Powell, but the Dems themselves. Trump was elected in 2016, because half the population ws fed up with being ignored or, worse, repressed by their elected officials. After four years of having their politicians, their government and the Establishment attack them, the populace reelected Trump by a landslide which shocked the Dems and their allies. The “insurance policy” run through the counting software, was insufficient to offset Trump’s lead. So, old school fraud was employed. For the second time where Trump is concerned, the Establishment panicked. They ran an operation which was both transparent and had their fingerprints all over it AND is criminal. Those responsible can not afford to lose.

So, we are at the point where violent civil war is almost unavoidable. The Establishment can not afford to lose. If they do, they will step up the violence and civil unrest. And, the rest of us probably can not afford to lose either. If we do, there will never be another fair, legal election again. The Establishment will place increasing onerous restrictions of the citizenry. They will push the citizenry to the point where rebellion will become necessary. I do not see how violence can not be avoided, at this point. But, if the current election results are allowed to stand, in the face of overwhelming evidence of election fraud, it will only make it that much more difficult for the populace.

The Progressive Establishment and the Dems created this situation by changing the rules. They can stop it. But, they probably won’t. Too bad.

    randian in reply to Mac45. | November 20, 2020 at 4:19 am

    I think the problem is the evidentiary standard courts demand in election fraud cases. They basically want you to prove each and every suspicious ballot is fraudulent, individually, and only and exactly those ballots will be the ones that are tossed. That’s an impossible standard, and basically means large scale election fraud can’t be stopped.

    It’s obvious to any honest observer that hundreds of thousands of magically appearing ballots, all of which voted for Biden and nobody else on the ballot, are fraudulent. It’s almost impossible to prove that any of them, individually, are fraudulent, because the election safeguards that would allow you to prove it were themselves violated by the scheme to defraud the election.

    One point of attack is the process itself, not the ballots. Throw out all ballots counted while election observers were not present, in violation of the law. That would give all the contested states to Trump. The problem is getting a judge to buy throwing out all those ballots even if the process is corrupt on its face. The fraudsters will disingenuously argue that the observers left voluntarily.

      Mac45 in reply to randian. | November 20, 2020 at 11:59 am

      The problems with the courts is just another sign of the decline of the United States of America. Why should the standards for admissible evidence be any different for election cases than for dog bite cases? It shouldn’t.

      In the case of the five major jurisdictions which put Biden over the top in this election, all have documented, demonstrable violations of election laws. All of the violations would facilitate the occurrence of vote fraud. There is, at worst, a mountain of circumstantial evidence that vote fraud did occur. And, there is no standard that demands that it be proven that the level of vote fraud was sufficient to change the predictable course of the election or race. All that has to be proven is that it can be reasonably assumed that such a level of vote fraud existed. And, in this case, it appears that this can be shown through existing evidence.

      The courts are the first line of defense against a righteous revolution. So far, the governmental system of the US has failed a significant plurality, if not majority, of the citizens of this nation, by allowing or encouraging massive election fraud to occur. If the courts do not act impartially and in good faith in adjudicating the remedies for that fraud, then we are one step closer to armed insurrection. If the Legislatures in the states directly affected by this probable fraud fail to address it, if the courts refuse, we move even closer to armed conflict among the citizenry. The government exists, in the main, to redress the grievances of the citizenry. If it fails to do that, then the citizenry has to use extra-legal means to seek to have those grievances addressed. That is the point we are at now.

      Only about 60% of the population of the Colonies supported the Revolutionary War. Far less than that actually participated in it. The population of the US and the Confederacy, during the US Civil War was approximately 30 million people. Only about 3 million were active participants in that war. So, it does not take a massive number of participants to actually throw a nation into chaos through civil war. And, we know that the liberal left will use violence to achieve their ends. And, they are rapidly forcing the law abiding portion of the citizenry to do the same. I’m afraid that nothing can be done to stop violence in the streets. But, it is far more likely that the Dems would throw the full might of government in support of the lawless liberal fringe than that the Republicans, in the person of DJ Trump, would throw the forces of government behind an uprising by the far more law abiding center and conservative citizenry. People put their heads in the sand and failed to:

      1) See the direction in which this country was going,
      2) Take legal action to prevent it and
      3) Failed to draw a line in the sand against the oppressive actions of the Progressive Liberal Establishment until it reached the point where any push-back is going to be very, very painful for all.

      So, now the pain begins in earnest and no one will escape it. The Grand Experiment may well be over.

        bradly in reply to Mac45. | November 22, 2020 at 4:10 pm

        Remember the same thing happened (questioning the vote regarding the statistical variances by that Williams professor ) with the Democrats who had equally weak arguments – but with far less vigor, and without lies from the apparent loser in 2005 and 2016. We don’t know what evidence Powell and Giuliani have. However as stated above, regarding the Dominion voting machines “Georgia just conducted a hand recount of all the paper ballots in the entire state. That is, with bipartisan observers, human beings looked at each paper ballot and tallied them all up. If there were problems with vote-counting machines, Georgia’s hand recount would have found them.” Regarding the affidavits, we will see. But all affidavits that have been presented so far have been either hearsay or petty… and dismissible.…/how-can-the-dominion…/

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to randian. | November 20, 2020 at 3:21 pm

      It is possible all the Biden ballots are genuine, but that Trump ballots were stripped and tossed in the trash can, then shredded, then burned. The legal system will have a hard time invalidating ballots without cause. Just think if you were on the other side of this, and the Democrats were challenging the results. You would want solid proof and evidence before you started you allowed Republican votes to be discounted of erased. Just keeping it real, guys. Any court is in a tough spot on this. It might be both obvious the election was stolen and impossible to prove in court in such a manner that the results can be overturned, especially as the clock continues to count down. That is, after all, part of the plan.

        We have seen the court reverse election to a Democrat, where a Republican won initilly, by disallowing votes which were likely to be tainted by election or vote fraud. Sometimes on very little actual evidence.

        Now, in this case, we have documented violations of election laws in PA, MI, WI, GA and NV. All of which would be most useful to facilitate vote fraud. And, these locations are the “swing states” which swung the Trump lead to Biden. We have witness evidence of actual vote fraud, in these locations. Further detailed investigation will most likely increase the number of suspicious ballots and election practices, in these locations. This is the old “where there is smoke there is fire” scenario. Now, we have two problems. One is the time factor. Unless the courts suspend the certification deadlines, pending a complete investigation of these claims, no redress will be possible. The second is identifying specific illegal or improper votes. If the latter was easy to do, then this could all be cleared up in about a week and the vote tallies adjusted to reflect only those votes cast and counted lawfully.

        But, the big problem is why people voted for Trump. It was laegely because Trump was both more responsive to their needs and desires and because he was far less likely to cause them harm. If he loses, through obvious fraud, and this is allowed to stand by the government, then where do the people go for justice? They have seen the Establishment bureaucracy ignore the rule of law and act to support Establishment interests. They have seen the same from many courts. They have seen the courts do the same thing. And, they cam out in record numbers to vote for Trump again. What do they do? Do they roll over and accept the obvious fraud? Or, do they demand that the government{s} address the issue and use force to back up their demands? We have seen this happen all summer long, on the left. Is not what is good for the goose, also good for the gander?

          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Mac45. | November 20, 2020 at 7:57 pm

          This is a horrible outcome for social stability. I do not see this ending well.

          Mac45 in reply to Mac45. | November 20, 2020 at 9:06 pm

          “This is a horrible outcome for social stability. I do not see this ending well.”

          No kidding. Now we have people wringing their hands and saying that if the Biden win was overturned, there would be burning cities and blood in the streets. Because traditionally the left has taken to the streets to loot, burn and kill, to gain their ends. Then they assume that people on the right, conservatives and moderates, will not do this. Because traditionally these groups are essentially law abiding and have not done this in the past. What they fail to realize is that tradition is meaningless, today. The political landscape has changed drastically.

          In 2012, conservatives and moderates came together changed control of the Congress from Democrat to Republican. They did this largely based upon GOP promises to repeal Obamacare. By 2015, nothing had been done and Obama was still enacting onerous restrictions and programs via EOs. So, no longer trusting the the political class, they voted in DJ Trump. They were sending a clear message that they wanted their elected officials to be responsive to their wants, needs and desires. The response was for the Congress to continue to fail to repeal Obamacare and to work to obstruct the Trump agenda. There was a mass exodus of GOP Congressmen prior to 2018. The Trump supporters then stayed home in 2018 and the Dems took back the House. Again a message was sent, to be responsive to the electorate. Now we come to 2020. The Trump voters came out en mass. They increased the number of GOP House members and probably maintained GOP control of the Senate. Because of them Trump was able to equal every single traditional indicator of Presidential election success. Biden met exactly NONE of these benchmarks. Still, after being significantly behind on election day and the night following, Joe Biden manages to pick-up an unbelievable number of votes in five large, Democrat controlled urban areas. This put him in the lead. Coupled with this were a raft of suspicious election irregularities in these areas.

          Now the question becomes, what avenues are left to the conservative and moderate Trump supporters to convince the governmental establishment to take them seriously? They went to the ballot boxes four times and were ignored or rebuffed. They have shouted from the hills and been ignored. What is left for them when their government ignores half the population. Especially if the last election appears to have been stolen through vote and election fraud. What choices do they have? We are about to find out. And, you are right, it will not be pretty. In fact, it might very well destroy this nation, as we know it.

          It could all have been avoided if our elected officials had simply done their jobs four the last 8 years. Now, it might be too late.

        I am repeating a comment above. The same thing happened (questioning the vote regarding the statistical variances by that Williams professor ) with the Democrats who had equally weak arguments – but with far less vigor (and without multiple daily lies from the apparent loser, who has a record of lying daily) in 2005 and 2016.

        We don’t know what evidence Powell and Giuliani have. However regarding the Dominion voting machines “Georgia just conducted a hand recount of all the paper ballots in the entire state. That is, with bipartisan observers, human beings looked at each paper ballot and tallied them all up. If there were problems with vote-counting machines, Georgia’s hand recount would have found them.”

        Regarding the affidavits, we will see. But all affidavits that have been presented so far have been either hearsay or petty… and dismissible.…/how-can-the-dominion…/

Democrats name themselves after democracy, but they aren’t really interested in democracy, other than ways to rig it so they win and are in charge.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to maxmillion. | November 20, 2020 at 3:30 pm

    ANTIFA also say they are “Anti-Fascist,” but is one of the most Fascistic organizations I have seen. I am afraid we are seeing the rise of American Fascism, and it’s certainly rising from the Democrats and most large American institutions. Frightening times, indeed. As Biden said, America is entering a long-dark winter, and he’s just the man to lead us there. 10’s of millions will follow. It’s the fourth turning. Are you ready?

      I talked to an antifa person who gave a tour in Barcelona (marking the anarchist-libertarian revolution in 1936). She identified as left libertarian (as did a large swath of Spain in 1936). She was British antifa and had been working with others in Greece. She said some were pretty ruthless and violent. Others were quite kind and pacifist. It is the same with many right wing militia.

      I am quite sure that the anitfa have little patience for Biden and centrist Democrats.

      The “left” has for the most part I understand chosen a more pacifist route in case of a Trump coup…. General Strikes, etc. but I imagine that they too are likely prepared to “stand by”. Nobody wants violence.

believe that trump is smart–no sense showing your cards until necessary–the clock is ticking, yes, and while it may allow the dems an interval to cover their tracks, it will also allow PDJT and his numerous allies to gather the evidence necessary to expose the deliberate, organized, orchestrated fraud being attempted on a massive scale by the dems and their cohorts–it is inspiring to see ordinary citizens(with extraordinary bravery)coming forward to testify to the criminal actions of the dems–election officials, IT guys, foreign citizens familiar with dominion software/systems, postal workers, ups deliverymen/women, election observers, AGs from several states, governors, attorneys from both sides of the political spectrum, courageous reporters/journalists(O’Keefe, et al)even individual voters in several of the fraud-afflicted states

the evidence and courageous testimony of a large array of citizens is growing and will continue to do so–it will be overwhelming when finally revealed in full–and i believe it will be successful–trump knows(as he has demonstrated repeatedly over the last four years)this process isn’t just about him and his administration, it’s about all of us

I want to give a shout out to the Governor of Georgia and the Secretary of State, both Republicans, for their tireless support and running interference for the Biden/Harris campaign. The SoS was downright pleased as punch to gloat over Trump coming up short by under 29000 votes. That little matter of 100000 ballots with only Biden and many mail in ballots with no creases, folds and perfectly marked ovals are beyond reproach. Democrats know how to steal elections while establishment Republicans don’t know how to win them.

In in the other camp on this about tainted voter pools.

If you cannot guarantee illegal votes haven’t been hidden in the wider vote pool then every vote must be rejected…that really is the only remedy available and the only deterrent worthy of a deliberate action to hide illegal votes.

If you cannot pull illegal votes out because Democrats have purposely made it so then burn everything to the ground.

It is the only way…well, there is another way that would involve hanging decorations from lamp posts but let’s just leave that one up our sleeves for now.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to mailman. | November 20, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    Yes. Throw that state’s electors out,
    but also deny seating of DEMS who “won” that state’s elective offices – because they probably really didn’t.

The set up in Pennsylvania I am getting convinced was Act 77 calling for paper ballots and with it came the Dominion software. If the election rules and system doesn’t get righted with the biggest Trump vote now it won’t anytime soon.
The Democrats have produced every rule that makes fraud possible and they have not 1 reason to fix it so it doesn’t happen.

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | November 20, 2020 at 4:59 am

Don’t know if the dictatorship Democrat Party and their slave owned media So Much blew up The Norms as they let all their Fake Face Masks drop.

The Democrat Party and their MSM have been pulling this crime against humanity for decades and decades.

Think of all the needless Wars they perpetuated since Korea…..

I will remain hopeful that good men and women will do the right thing in this country. I did my duty and voted. Now I wait for law enforcement, judges and politicians to do their jobs. I hope they don’t all fail me.

MaggotAtBroadAndWall | November 20, 2020 at 8:04 am

I believe the one statistic that tells the whole story is the rejection rate on mail in ballots.

It was 1.2% in 2016 and over 2.0% in the 2018 midterms. This year it is running between 0.3% and 0.4%.

Mail in ballots totaled 33 million in 2016. Volume estimates for 2020 range between 65 million to 80 million. Despite volume at least doubling, the rejection rate for defective ballots somehow declined by around 70%. That volume more than doubles leads to a drastically lower rejection rate defies logic.

If the rejection rate were what it was just two years ago at over 2%, and assuming the volume of mail in ballots is 80 million, then well over 1.3 million more votes would have been rejected.

Democrats know their voters like to vote by mail, so they made a concerted effort to lower the standards so fewer ballots are rejected as defective (unsigned, unverifiable signature, arrive late, etc.)

Yes, Democrats rigged it. They rigged it anticipating an enormous Democrat landslide based on pre-election polling. They believed they rigged it in a way that would deliver a “blue tidal wave” across the House, Senate, presidency and especially the state houses so they could control redistricting. But the pre-election polls were disastrously wrong. They did not anticipate Republican/Trump voters would turn out in massive numbers.

Consider: Obama won his re-election after getting 2.5 million FEWER votes in 2012 than he got in 2008. Trump is on track to get around 12 million MORE votes than he got in 2016 and somehow still lost. I don’t have the data, but I’m pretty sure no president vying for re-election has lost after getting 12 million more votes in his re-election bid. It’s likely unprecedented. But no matter how often the New York Times and WaPoo like writing about “unprecedented” things, I would not hold my breath waiting for them to write a story about how unprecedented it is to lose an election after expanding your vote count by such a huge margin.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to MaggotAtBroadAndWall. | November 20, 2020 at 3:35 pm

    “I don’t have the data, but I’m pretty sure no president vying for re-election has lost after getting 12 million more votes in his re-election bid. It’s likely unprecedented.”

    This is really one of the most telling arguments. And Biden generated no enthusiasm.

      Trump received more votes than in 2016 simply because many more people came out to vote. The MSM still claims that Trump lost by over 5 million votes in the popular vote. That is disputed statistically…the same way that the 2005 election was disputed statically by the Dems.

      Biden certainly generated no enthusiasm, but people on the other side were voting against Trump.

The opening statement of the article is reason enough to NOT show our cards until the right moment. On a national news show, even Tucker, is not the place, not on this one. Giving in to the democrat media machine’s calls for evidence is giving in to the very same people that blew up all the norms and civility. It allows the media to control the information flow, to be dismissive, and develop a counter narrative. Let Trump, Powell, Giuliani, and Wood run their course and do everything possible to support them.

Oh, one more thing. If the courts refuse to act on the evidence of massive election fraud, which most probably changed the outcome of the Presidential election, then the rule of law is dead. Attorneys had better have another skill set, because they will have become superfluous. Perhaps barristers can become baristas, if the governments allow coffee shops to reopen.

ottovongrubner | November 20, 2020 at 1:13 pm

There is a remedy to ask for in these cases. It is to have an open, transparent and fair audit of the ballots in the disputed counties and to match them up to voters on the voter registration list and confirm the vote with the voter. It is a huge task, but it can be done.

Just recounting ballots accomplishes nothing if the ballots were fraudulent in the first place.

What has not been mentioned on media or elsewhere is how Joe Biden did very, very little campaigning, no door to door effort, no reaching out to voters and defeated a candidate that had people standing in line 6-8 hours to see that candidate. Hillary lost Wisconsin because she didn’t campaign there. Donald Trump was a hero for us and this country is going to miss him. Moved scientists to develop a vaccine in record time and got no recognition. Picked up 3 Nobel prize nominations and no recognition. Kamala is our next president. God help us.

In the immortal words of Comrade Hillary and the rest of Animal Farm, “RESIST”!

Seen a few bloggers in different states digging into the minutes data of votes, many states were done the same way.
Trump was up 5% or more as in Pennsylvania, at 2300hr or there abouts 5 states called a recess in calling out vote counts, many cities went under wraps and had boxes of votes, many in the tens of thousands only for Sundowner and no under card races and tacked on the totals. A time lapse of no more than 10 minutes in at least 3 states maybe all, Trump went from a lead to behind. Now here is were it’s easily found if you have the logs as a few bloggers have looked at. The algorithm took over the vote totals, keeping maximum votes for Trump and tranfering the above that to Sundowner. Some places in Philadelphia the algorithm was in play from the morning constantly keeping Trump with very few votes and tacking on Sundowner votes.
From watch and see

The point of the SCOTUS case in reference to Pennsylvania was that the Secretary of State/Board of Elections had modified the absentee/mail-in rules and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court had ruled that those modifications were OK with them (court is 5-2 D-R).

The SCOTUS had taken it up and ruled 4-4.

The issue is that the Secretary of State/Board of Elections (the Executive) and the SCOPA (Judiciary) had usurped the powers of the “Legislature” as defined in the US Constitution.

“The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations” (Article I, section 4).