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More evidence debunking Elizabeth Warren’s “elopement” story

More evidence debunking Elizabeth Warren’s “elopement” story

I previously wrote about how Elizabeth Warren elopement story falls apart.  That “story” is Warren’s claim that she always believed she was Native American because her parents said they had to elope because her father’s white family would not accept her mother because her mother was part Cherokee and part Delaware.

The is no evidence of Warren telling that elopement story in public, even when she discussed her childhood in great detail, prior to being caught reporting herself as Native American for various law professor employment-related purposes.

The elopement story has become the central story told by Warren to justify checking the box.

The elopement story even is part of Warren’s campaign advertising:

And came up at the debates:

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There is no evidence, of course, that Warren’s mother had any Cherokee or Delaware ancestry, and plenty of evidence her family and ancestors always identified as white.

As detailed in the prior post, the few contemporaneous records which exist as to her parent’s marriage strongly suggest no elopement due to Native American ancestry.

Yesterday another piece of evidence was revealed, a 1906 newspaper clipping in which Warren’s maternal great grandfather was identified in the local newspaper as white, Elizabeth Warren’s white great grandfather shot an Indian.

Now Twila Barnes, the real Cherokee genealogist, has found additional evidence set forth in her post, Dissecting a Family Myth – Elizabeth Warren.  Barnes takes an interview with Warren in which Warren elaborated on the elopement story, and then shows why each of the statements by Warren is contradicted by all known evidence.

It turns out that in the “white” Crawford family ancestors on Warren’s mother’s side lived just a few doors away from the white Herring family ancestors on Warren’s father’s side just a few years after the newspaper report identifying Warren’s maternal great grandfather John H. Crawford as white.  (They may have lived there at the time of the article in 1906, but the census record is from 1910.)

Why is this important? As Barnes explains, since the Crawfords always and consistently identified as white, and were identified as white in the local newspaper, it is implausible that the white Herring family would have thought the white Crawford family was Native American.

Warren  says her father’s family (Herrings) knew enough about her mother’s family  (Crawfords/Reeds) to know they were Indians, so they opposed the marriage. This  is the entire basis for her claim of Cherokee and Delaware  ancestry.

The  problem with this is, the  only family the Herrings had a generational history with was the Crawford  family. Harry Gunn Reed’s parents never lived in  Wetumka and were long dead  before he moved there. The Herrings would have known nothing about his family.

Because John H. Crawford  is found on the 1910 US Census living only four households away from the  Herrings, they would have known him. John H. Crawford was a white man and was considered white by  the community. The Herrings, part of the community, would have considered him  white.

Warren’s  story has fallen apart. If it wasn’t apparent before, it should be now. The  woman is not an Indian and has no Indian ancestry. For her to continue to claim  she has Native American ancestry is not only an insult to real Natives, it is  also an insult to the intelligence of the people of Massachusetts and of the  American public. Elizabeth Warren said,  “Character is how you live your  life.” If she really believes that, then it is time for her to stop the lies and  apologize.

The events took place long ago, and the stories told by Warren about the elopement are very recent.  All the contemporaneous recoverable evidence points to Warren’s story being false.  But it’s her story, and she’s sticking to it.

Why keep focusing on evidence rather than just accepting Warren’s word for it?

Warren says no kid asks for evidence.  But Warren was 38 before she starting reporting herself as Native American.  She wasn’t a child, and neither are the voters.

The voters are entitled to know not only if they have a candidate who has exaggerated her family lore, but also whether that candidate is incapable of admitting she is wrong.

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Comments

“Character is how you live your life.”

That is true. And Warren has none.

Not. At. All.

So we get repeated confirmation that Warren is a lying, cheating, hypocritical, liberal plunderer. I want to be optimistic about Mass. voters, but I’m not.

“For her to continue to claim she has Native American ancestry is not only an insult to real Natives, it is also an insult to the intelligence of the people of Massachusetts and of the American public.”

And it’s also a blatant lie/coverup.

Do Massacheusett’s voters LIKE having politicians in office who lie to them and who will lie to cover up their misdeeds?

This goes to Ms. Warren’s integrity and so far she has shown very little.

Henry Hawkins | October 5, 2012 at 12:21 pm

Drip, drip, drip… Keep it up. It’s working.

Why hasn’t Warren shown the slightest interest in this research into her family history that has recently been uncovered?

Why isn’t she interested in documentation (or lack thereof?)

Probably the only connection between Warren and elopement is your wallet and your vote.

Nothing exists to recommend this woman. You would think that the MA democrats could have come up with someone better.

A waste of human flesh to equal that of Fwank ‘n Kerry…

Warren’s dogged attachment to the story in the face of all evidence calls her sanity into question. It is probably best that Brown not say it but a independent expenditure group should make the point.

    george in reply to scrubjay. | October 5, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Why can’t she believe family lore? Maybe there are no documents proving r disproving the family lore? Can anyone prove the family lore false? Everybody on here side is lying?

      george in reply to george. | October 5, 2012 at 9:25 pm

      There is no known documentary evidence but there is a fair amount of oral testimony. Sally Jacobs of the Globe detailed accounts by numerous Warren family members and old high school friends of Warren, and it seems pretty clear that many recall Herring family talk of Indian heritage. Is there any reason to believe that all these memories are not worthy of belief?

      Next, if you accept that some of the oral testimony is correct – there is Herring family lore about Indian heritage — the question is whether there MUST be documentary evidence for a claim of Indian heritage to be made/believed? . Why can’t the abundant oral testimony be accepted as some evidence that Warren has or believes she has Indian heritage? Apparently some are saying that there will not necessarily be records of Indian blood still extant. So. How can you say the family history is wrong or not worthy of belief.?

        george in reply to george. | October 5, 2012 at 9:25 pm

        Likewise, just because the Crawford/reed/Herring families lived a few doors away from each other does not mean they knew each other to be white and only white . There is a huge logical leap there.

        As for Globe Sally Jacobs piece, there is some reason to doubt here bona fides. See this great piece my an EW schoolmate whons an indian. He feels Jacobs misreported his information. http://www.badeagle.com/2012/09/27/warren-yeagley-and-the-boston-globe/

        Henry Hawkins in reply to george. | October 5, 2012 at 10:10 pm

        George, the Cherokee Nation decides who gets to officially call themselves Cherokee, by long established methods, none of which are satisfied by Warren. Google “Dawes Rolls”. Wherein institutions like Harvard, the federal government, and many others hire and award contracts based on minority status, it will not do to have people qualified as any minority simply because they say so. Some folks are deeply dishonest and will lie to gain assets they are not otherwise entitled to. Google “Elizabeth Warren” on that one.

        Thanks for sharing your concerns and say hello to Liz when you see her.

          Henry. – my concern is not the federal standard. My concern is the repeated statement that there is no evidence she has Indian ancestors. Seems like there is evidence in the form of oral testimony. Is that oral testimony all wrong? I doubt that. And. As to your snark, I am by no means a warren supporter. I’ll be voting for Brown.

          blcartwright in reply to Henry Hawkins. | October 6, 2012 at 12:23 am

          George, what I have found in 15+ years of doing genealogy is that a claim can be made by one person, even a hundred years ago, and that is repeated through the generations. It doesn’t matter how many people today repeat the same story, if there is (for example) a single source, how accurate was that source?

          In my family in western Pa, the big tradition is that our Custers (COOSter) were cousins of General George Custer. His line did pass through western Maryland, just to our south. There is still no proof of whether John Custer was from the Philadelphia or Lancaster lines, but there were claims to kinship of the General published in the county history a hundred years ago.

          Also, my father told me about his great-grandfather who fought at Gettysburg. My father attended the 75th anniversary speech by FDR with his grandfather, the soldier’s son. In recent years I have searched the records only to find that the Jacob Stevens who fought at Gettysburg living in Pittsburgh in the late 1800’s, with my ancestor 80 miles away.

          Amelia Earhart was said to be a cousin. I found a Stevens cousin who married an Earhart in our county in the late 1800’s, but no connection to Amelia.

          Thaddeus Stevens, the Civil War Speaker of the House was also said to be a relative. I found a cousin Thaddeus who lived in our town a hundred years ago, but “Old Thad” wasn’t the Speaker.

          So just because Grandma or Grandpa believed something and told all their grandkids the story doesn’t make it true.

          William A. Jacobson in reply to Henry Hawkins. | October 6, 2012 at 9:38 am

          RE george | October 5, 2012 at 11:15 pm — my position always has been there was some rumor about it (her nephew’s term in 2002) but that Warren grossly exaggerated it when she was caught in late April 2012 and since then.

        William A. Jacobson in reply to george. | October 5, 2012 at 10:38 pm

        Globe story actually ended up disproving most of Warren’s family lore claim, https://legalinsurrection.com/2012/09/boston-globe-unintentionally-proves-elizabeth-warrens-ethnic-fraud/

          But I hope u can admit that there is evidence that EW believes she has Indian heritage? You really should stop saying there is no evidence. There is some evidence of her Indian heritage. Did the Globe make it all up? No. People other than EW recall family stories. Are family stories bogus? Maybe there is never going to be documentary proof.

          Back in April, I was a Warren sympathizer. No really. I was. I believe in good faith she was told she had a distant Native American ancestor. No one is questioning that, a lot of people are told many things as a child.

          But even if she was 1/32 or 1/16 Native American does one list themselves in a Law Faculty Directory as a minority, when in the past she never had?

          How did Harvard use this to their own advantage to create an image of diversity?

          http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/05/10/records-shed-more-light-elizabeth-warren-minority-status/0frnjL8PwVQe2dmUAJC3vM/story.html

          “The emergence of the University of Texas form does not explain why Warren listed herself as a minority in a widely used Association of American law Schools directory from 1986 through 1995.

          Warren has said she was proud of her Native American heritage and that she was hoping to connect with “people like me.” The directory, however, did not list her as someone with Native American heritage. It simply said “minority.” Harvard Law School also touted Warren as a Native American in the Harvard Crimson when it was under fire for a lack of diversity on its faculty.

          Leonard P. Strickman, founding dean at Florida International University, one of the nation’s most diverse law schools, said deans often consult the Association of American Law Schools directory when seeking out minority applicants, but look more rigorously at scholarship before making hires.”

          When presented with the truth, rather then acknowledge she was mistaken, Warren supporters attack Twila Barnes as a liar and deny that her minority designation played any role in her hire at Harvard.

          blcartwright in reply to William A. Jacobson. | October 6, 2012 at 12:06 am

          The one supporting document is on the Crawford side, the great-uncle in the 1880’s who said his mother was an Indian.

          The evidence is much weaker on the Reed side. In the 1910-1940 census Harry G. Reed was listed as being born in Illinois. The birthplace of the parents was not asked in 1940, but in the three prior census, the respondent says Harry’s father was born in Ohio, while being less sure on the mother, listing unknown, United States, and United States with Illinois written above.

          The Reed tree by Mapes (Warren’s nephew) on Ancestry led me to the 1880 census. I was able to quickly find them in St Clair Co. Here Joseph is said to be born in Ohio, agreeing with Harry’s later census listings, and that Joseph’s parents were both born in New Jersey. Charity was listed as born in Illinois, with both of ehr parents born in Missouri. Charity Gorman is found with her parents Ezekiel & Matilda in the 1850 census of Washington Co, Illinois, with both parents born in Missouri.

          There are many Indian descendants in Oklahoma, making it one of the easier places to claim to be one. However, all of Warren’s claims turn out to be from outside of Oklahoma. The Reed line goes to New Jersey, where it seems to me to be a dead-end. The Crawfords and Gormans are in Missouri in the early to middle 1800’s. I’m not very familiar with the early history of Missouri, but there was an Indian in “Tom Sawyer”, so there is a possibility.

          Bl. Any citation for this: The one supporting document is on the Crawford side, the great-uncle in the 1880′s who said his mother was an Indian.”” where can I find that.

          William A. Jacobson in reply to William A. Jacobson. | October 6, 2012 at 9:41 am

          Re blcartwright | October 6, 2012 at 12:06 am — no such document exists. That supposed document was the basis for the original 1/32 claim, but the NE Historic Genealogical Society withdrew the claim.

          Henry Hawkins in reply to William A. Jacobson. | October 6, 2012 at 10:39 am

          George, I have often claimed to be the best looking man in North Carolina although there is no empirical evidence for this. By your standard, my merely claiming it stands as empirical evidence for it.

          Why would anyone, let alone someone claiming to be a Brown supporter, be so desperate to assist Warren’s comically bogus claim?

Henry Hawkins | October 5, 2012 at 1:38 pm

The Democrat Party loves Warren based on superficialities, the way she checks off their three major magisteria: race (she’s Cherokee), class (she’s For The Little Guy), and gender (she’s not a white male), but it’s all artifice currently being exposed, most notably by our own LI host, who’s doling out a months’ long journalistic Chinese water torture.

Boy, don’t the Dems see the problem? I mean, gosh, what if they fell for such a cellophane thin empty shirt at the presidential level? That could turn out to be a catastrophe.

Professor, you went to Harvard Law, didn’t you? Is there any way for you as a alum to formally petition the Law School to investigate Warren’s false heritage claims? How can Harvard Law School continue this woman’s employment? What about some of Harvard’s donors (if there are any who would be willing to make a public announcement of withdrawing funds)?

Sir Bulldog Bill: Here is the contact info for the Native American Bar Asssociation, I understand there are 1250 card carrying authentic Indin licensed attorneys.
They may be interested in all this information about Lieawatha and hey, they would be eligible to apply for Lieawatha’s tenured professorial job at Harvard. Hey, all of them have the card authenicating their Native American status as well as having a real law license to practice. Helping your alma mater out of the mess!
Northwest Indian Bar Association (NIBA)

The Northwest Indian Bar Association (NIBA) is an organization of Indian attorneys and judges in Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia and the Yukon Territory, which aspires to improve the legal and political landscape for the Pacific Northwest Indian community. For more information, or to join NIBA, please contact:

Millie Kennedy, President (10/2011 – 9/2012)
Native American Advocacy Coordinator
Northwest Justice Project
401 Second Avenue S., Ste. 407
Seattle, WA 98104
206-464-1519, ext. 617

Elizabeth “Betty” Fry, President-elect
Elizabeth Fry Law Office
P.O. Box 949
Omak, WA 98841
509-826-6821

From a neighbor I saw on Facebook…. she has her own progressive blog. And well I haven’t been happy with the personal choice words she has had for me.

“Warren peeps, need some feedback: I want to start a “Truth Bank” for *******. We all pledge hour(s) to working phones/streets/viz/SOMEthing at the Warren campaign, and for every lying mistruthful winger comment about asbestos, heritage, etc on ************, someone who’s pledged hours goes and signs up for that hour (or more) at the campaign HQ of your choice. This has to be hours you might not have done otherwise.
I will start by pledging four hours above and beyond what I am already signed up to do. Come on, help me out! I wanna make these liars pay for every single lie they tell.”

We’re all liars…. got it.

    TrooperJohnSmith in reply to ReneeA. | October 5, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Yep. Once we wrote up all those Warren lies, we wrote Romney’s debate lies. I already had a whole stash for Ryan. Anyone want to start on the lies for the debate on the 16th?

    Elemental Democratic Truth #57: Conservatives and/or Republicans are capable only of lying. Anything they say, is untrue.

    If one of our people err, it is not intentional, and therefore, not a lie. That is because anyone with superior moral positions and unequaled intellectual faculties who happens to overstate or incorrectly state something, has done so for the common good. Therefore, lying, which is a self-promoting act, does not apply.

For me, the pertinent question is, “Ms. Lizzie Cherokee Warren, when are you going to open your Casino?”

The 2nd pertinent question is, “Are you going to hire any American Indians to work in it, or will they all be Palefaces?”

The 3rd pertinent question is, “Will you donate any of your casino profits to your fellow American Cherokee and Delaware Indian organizations? Or will you just add it to your Top 1% income you’re earning from your unlicensed Harvard Law office practice?”

Just asking.

Per Breitbart (image included) 1932 Marriage license of Don Herring & Pauline Reed was in a church in same county as their listed hometown of Wetumka. Race and parents names/permission not on form (ate age 19 in my home state of Pa parents permission required, so many underage went to Maryland).

1893 Ft Smith, Arkansas marriage license of Harry G. Reed & Hannie Crawford (from FamilySearch.org) also does not list race or parents. She was 17, said born in Indian Territory. In the 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940 census for Harry & Hannie (from Ancestry.com), on every one she is said to be white and born in Missouri. There are other households on the same or adjacent pages with people listed as “Black” or “Indian”. I have yet to find them married in the 1900 census, or Hannie with her parents in the 1880 census.

I have a brother-in-law from San Antonio who has ancestors who lived in the Indian Territory in the 1880’s, but they were from Spain, by way of Texas, then returned to Texas.

    blcartwright in reply to blcartwright. | October 5, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    a correction, the 1893 marriage license of Harry & Hannie said she was a resident of the Indian Territory, not that she was born there, so there is no contradiction with the later census data – but how does 40+ years of saying born in Missouri reconcile with claim of Native ancestry?

“The voters are entitled to know not only if they have a candidate who has exaggerated her family lore, but also whether that candidate is incapable of admitting she is wrong.”

Professor, I believe the voters already have an answer to that question.

Likewise, just because the Crawford/reed/Herring families lived a few doors away from each other does not mean they knew each other to be white and only white . There is a huge logical leap there. Because they lived so close, one family may have known family secrets of Indian blood held by the other family. How is close proximity proof of knowledge of whiteness???

Had they lived far apart, maybe they would know less about each other

(ps. I am having all sorts of trouble posting tonight… I have some link from bad eagle that seems to be causing trouble. So sorry in advance if multiple similar posts by me pop up)

the Crawford/reed/Herring families lived a few doors away from each other. Ok. How does thatb mean they knew each other to be white and only white . There is a huge logical leap there. Because they lived so close, one family may have known family secrets of Indian blood held by the other family. How is close proximity proof of knowledge of whiteness???

Had they lived far apart, maybe they would know less about each other

(ps. I am having all sorts of trouble posting tonight… So sorry in advance if multiple similar posts by me pop up)

byondpolitics | October 5, 2012 at 10:00 pm

WOOT WOOT Thank you for this article. A huge thank you to Ms. Barnes for her diligence. I have so much respect for her integrity regarding the identity of her people: this is a profoundly serious issue. The only way we can have a truly vibrant world where all are able to succeed is if we are honest & respectful towards each other.

Perhaps that goal (all *able* to succeed) isn’t important to everyone; if so, that is clearly their loss and differs from what our Founding Fathers envisioned.

There are still countless other reasons to be honest. It’s so basic to civilization.

TrooperJohnSmith | October 5, 2012 at 10:17 pm

In Oklahoma, the only real reason to elope is due to a mixed marriage that is frowned upon in all quarters. One went to OU and the other to OSU.

“Y’all best run over to Arkansas and git married! Ain’t no preacher or JP gonna commit that sort ‘a sacrilege over here ta’ Oklahoma!”

Lizzie Warren, plain JD,
Checked the box marked “Cherokee.”
Though pale of face and blonde of hair,
She got the Leo Gottlieb chair!

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