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“We” never believed them, only “you” did

“We” never believed them, only “you” did

Joel Brinkley, currently a Professor at Stanford who spent most of his career as a foreign correspondent for The New York Times, has a column in the San Francisco Chronicle titled Islamists in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia not democratic.

The thesis of the column is that Westerners who took Islamists at their word that they would promote democracy and freedom as part of the Arab Spring were fooled.  Brinkley counts himself among those fooled:

Ever since Islamists took office in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, they have been  trying to convince us that they are advocates of moderation, democracy, women’s  rights and individual freedoms. And most people in the West, after jubilantly  watching the Arab Spring’s amazing revolutions last year, wanted to believe  them.

But now we can see that these Islamic groups are taking us for fools…

We should never have believed them.

We” never believed them and “we” were not fooled.  Only “you” and the cheerleaders at The NY Times like Roger Cohen believed them:

Already we hear the predictable warnings from Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu: This could be Iran 1979, a revolution for freedom that installs the Islamists. But this is not 1979, and Egypt’s Facebook-adept youth are not lining up behind the Muslim Brotherhood, itself scarcely a band of fanatics.

We” never believed that — absent an orderly transition — the Google Guy and other Western-oriented relative-secularists had any chance of survival.

“Your” former colleagues at The NY Times deceived their readers:

Sheik Qaradawi, a popular television cleric whose program reaches an audience of tens of millions worldwide, addressed a rapt audience of more than a million Egyptians gathered in Tahrir Square to celebrate the uprising and honor those who died….

On Friday, he struck themes of democracy and pluralism, long hallmarks of his writing and preaching….

Scholars who have studied his work say Sheik Qaradawi has long argued that Islamic law supports the idea of a pluralistic, multiparty, civil democracy.

“You” were surprised.  “We” are not.

“We” have nothing for which to apologize.  “You” do.

Not that it will make any difference at this point.

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Comments

There are recorded fatwas AGAINST democracy as evil and anti-Islamic.

Why do these guys just chose to ignore the record?

Actually, I think the Islamists really do support democracy…for exactly one election, or as many as it takes for them to consolidate power.

    Browndog in reply to Ragspierre. | April 14, 2012 at 11:48 am

    I’ll quibble with you a bit-

    A certain islamist faction, created to fight the westernization of their country by another western colonial power, created a “100 year plan”.

    Such a threat to power was this faction, that they were deemed illegal, and summarily imprisoned. It was in prison that the “100 year plan” was hatched.

    “No Western democracy has yet to repel the infiltration of Islam-facsism into their society. Instead, it has flourished.”

    Actually, I think the Islamists really do support democracy…for exactly one election

    You might be on to something there-

      Ragspierre in reply to Browndog. | April 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      You recall the “purple finger” of defiance, right?

      The poor, oppressed people of Iraq and Afghanistan really did face death or serious injury to vote in a free election when they had the chance, and a lot of them took that chance.

      And the thugs that were threatening them really DID have religious decrees backing them. I agree that the decrees against democracy were from more radical clerics, but those are the guys we are fighting.

      It is also worth noting that MANY Islamic regimes are “socialist people’s whatever”. Some strains of Islam are quite friendly to the Collective…and visa versa.

    Doug Wright in reply to Ragspierre. | April 14, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Actually my quibble is more like a question! Does our Novmber ’08 election count as that perhaps that one election?

    Or, is it instead, the first of however many such it shall take? That’s really my take!

    Uncle Samuel in reply to Uncle Samuel. | April 14, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Reminder: Obama tells Palestine – sit tight until after the elections – http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2012/03/obama-tells-palestinians-to-sit-tight.html

      DINORightMarie in reply to Uncle Samuel. | April 14, 2012 at 12:32 pm

      Between what Hillary said in Tunisia and your link of Obama – combined with his hot-mic “flexibility” comment for Vladimir Putin (Medvedev is such a great go-between)……. Truly frightening!

      I know the Senate will NEVER do it, but what is now the “threshold” for “high crimes and misdemeanors”, now that we have all these Obama precedents? Will anyone else be able to be impeached, given all the unconstitutional acts, the deceit, the ignoring of subpoenas, etc.?

      More clear than ever: it is a matter of IMPERATIVE national security, as well as international security, for Obama and his minions to be voted out in November.

1. But now we can see that these Islamic groups are taking us for fools.

Gosh, Joel, why would they do that? Can you think of a reason?

No, it’s not because you’re inadequately accommodating toward their culture. Take another guess.

2. Your assignment—your remedial assignment—your extremely remedial assignment—is to type out Kipling’s The Gods of the Copybook Headings one hundred times.

I’ve been trying to get people to read the Hamas Covenant http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp for quite some time, now, as well as “A common word between us” http://www.acommonword.com/

because these two documents are tools that can help us distinguish between Muslims who are our friends, and Islamists who are our enemies.

Muslim scholars know that they get their religion from the Jews, and that Jesus Christ was quoting the Torah when he made his remarks about the two greatest Commandments, namely “Love God,” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Barack Obama could have been a hero, had he the knowledge and the courage to distinguish between Jihad and Hirabah as an educated Muslim would.

    Ragspierre in reply to Valerie. | April 14, 2012 at 11:53 am

    “Barack Obama could have been a hero…”

    Or just a middling president if he’d just refrained from any comment on the Poor Trayvon(tm) flap…

    or said ANYTHING in support of the Iranian Green Revolution…

    or etc…

    …distinguish between Muslims who are our friends, and Islamists who are our enemies.

    And Muslims who are trying to figure out which horse is the strong horse.

    Uncle Samuel in reply to Valerie. | April 14, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    The ‘common ground’ rhetoric and the Catholic teaching (Catholic Church Catechism #841) that affirms Islam as a valid religion and a way/heir to Christ’s salvation – are irrational denial of truth, evidence, history, fact and grave spiritual blindness and theological error.

    There is no spiritual common ground between Judeo-Christianity and Islam – though many are desperately deceived and trying to make it so.

    Mohammed rejected Judaism and Christianity. He designed Islam to conquer, subsume, subject, control, coerce to conversion or destroy Judaism and Christianity under his own self-concocted system of law and spiritual practice.

    The fruit of Islam is the opposite of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit and the Character of God, of the fruit of the Commandments and Torah.

    Islam condones and produces oppression, injustice, misogyny, bestiality, pedophilia, racism, hatred, intolerance, lies, lust, barbarism, torture, vengeance, bloody conquest, perpetual aggression, wars, conflicts, tribalism, genocides, totalitarianism…it always has and always will.

    There is no peace, there can be no peace in Islam. It is based on Mohammed’s journal recording his spiritual journey and his degeneration from a peaceful respectful person to a man full of anger, vengeance, blood-thirsty violence and hatred for Jews and Christians, and his inner conflicts regarding women. The result is a dangerously flawed philosophical system that contains completely dichotomous, contradictions and directives…there is no rational consistency…which leaves the minds of muslims in a state of unrest, chaos, conflictedness and war within themselves and with each other…and constantly violating and disrespecting human rights.

    The Charter of Hamas quotes Mohammed’s books directly. It is not an expression of a sect of radical Islamists, it is simply reveals Islam as it is.

It’s called “taqiyya”, Mr. Brinkley.

My God, the left is terminally stupid.
Do college professors read ANYTHING beyond Howard Zinn?
What naive morons.

    DINORightMarie in reply to Tamminator. | April 14, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    We know Professor Jacobson does. 😉

    But I know what you mean – the leftist professors of the university world.

      Tamminator in reply to DINORightMarie. | April 14, 2012 at 4:12 pm

      I wonder how Professor Jacobson can stand to be around those libs.
      I would be permanently nauseous if I had to deal with those people every day.

Why are our supposed leaders unfazed by the fact that islamists believe that lying to infidels is completely appropriate? Why are they surprised when things islamists tell them turn out not to be true? How do we know that they really are surprised?
The Prof’s point is correct in that we knew. The Prof may not be correct with his implication that others did not know, as opposed to others in fact knowing and not caring, or knowing and being fine with the outcome.
I still have not heard a logical explanation for Obama’s 2008 “my muslim religion” comment, other than Obama being a muslim.

    Anchovy in reply to Rick. | April 14, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “Why are our supposed leaders unfazed by the fact that islamists believe that lying to infidels is completely appropriate?”

    Because they identify with this?

Islamists abhor a power vacuum … just like the media love the power suction of an airline-toilet strength memory hole.

“We.” Hah. The same “We” who fell for the “hope and change” tripe?

“Barack Obama could have been a hero”

Well, could have been, but he was only installed as the “puppet.”

Facebook-adept youth vs. men with guns = democracy wins! Ummm,OK.

Muslim demographics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=player_embedded#

(7 min. video)

It might shock you

[…] Prof. William A. Jacobson warns Prof. Joel Brinkley, and others, to be very careful when applying the "We" word in this matter… […]

Uncle Samuel | April 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm

“Obama could have been a hero”

He is hero to his people – Black Muslims, socialist, fascists, Islamists, Muslim Brotherhood – that is what he was put into place to be.

Connect the dots:

OBAMA marched with the New Black Panthers in 2007 – http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/shock-photos-barack-obama-marched-with-new-black-panthers-at-2007-selma-rally/
The New Black Panthers are tied to Hezbollah – http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/04/probe-reveals-new-black-panther-ties-to-hezbollah.html
Mexico drug cartels tied to Hezbollah.
Obama administration sues states to keep borders open.
Beheaded bodies found in US, mimic Mexican/Hezbollah drug cartel killings:
http://www.krgv.com/news/expert-says-beheadings-in-u-s-look-like-work-of-cartels/
http://www.allgov.com/ViewNews/Mexican_Cartels_Italian_Mafia_Move_Drugs_Through_US_and_Into_Europe_90427

LukeHandCool | April 14, 2012 at 2:10 pm

To misquote Roy Scheider in “Jaws”:

“You’re gonna need a bigger reset button.”

The reason they were “fooled” was because, in the 10+ years since we really engaged full-on with Islam, the left has refused to look at all at Islam.

All criticism, all give, all expectations are of the West, the U.S. in particular. It is against leftism to look at anyone but the West when considering problems between cultures.

However, conservatives and Jews have long since taken a critical look at Islam, and surprise, it is found quite wanting.

It has always been fundamentally hostile to Western democracy, secularism, and basically anything that is not written in the Koran. Islam will not tolerate it, yet to see that the left would need to approach Islam, the Koran and supporting texts critically.

Something the left will never do. They will search for the solution somewhere in the West, and will continue to be “surprised” when Islam marches forward, trampling over Democracy.

    Ragspierre in reply to SeanInLI. | April 14, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    The reason they were “fooled” was because, in the 10+ years since we really engaged full-on with Islam, the left has refused to look at all at REALITY.

    Got to keep in mind, the Collective HAS to live in delusion.

    It is the only way they can make it through any given day.

      Uncle Samuel in reply to Ragspierre. | April 14, 2012 at 4:03 pm

      Don’t forget GW Bush on 9/11 hastened to tell the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.

        SeanInLI in reply to Uncle Samuel. | April 15, 2012 at 12:11 pm

        With this, Bush taught me to trust no politician, even if he claims to agree with you, and even if you voted and campaigned for him. Always do your own research.

Islam is an imperial religion realized in various left-wing ideologies.

BannedbytheGuardian | April 14, 2012 at 4:53 pm

Bring back Winnie!

He hated Arabs Indians Russians Germans Ottomans & Tories. Not too keen on the French either .

[…] Prof. William A. Jacobson warns Prof. Joel Brinkley, and others, to be very careful when applying the “We” word in this matter… […]

[…] Told. You. So. Posted on April 14, 2012 5:56 pm by Bill Quick » “We” never believed them, only “you” did – Le·gal In&mi… Joel Brinkley, currently a Professor at Stanford who spent most of his career as a […]

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