Interactions Between Orbits of Mars and Earth Drive Climate Change Patterns
Mars-caused changes in Earth’s orbit impacts ocean currents and temperatures every 2.4 million years and is known as an “astronomical grand cycle.”
Anyone with an inkling of knowledge of geologic history appreciates Earth’s climate is constantly changing.
This change has many reasons, including solar cycles, volcanic activity, and asteroids.
New research shows another potentially significant player in Earth’s climate change cycles: Mars, our neighboring planet.
Geological evidence tracing back more than 65 million years and taken from hundreds of sites across the world suggests that deep-sea currents have repeatedly gone through periods of being either stronger or weaker. This happens every 2.4 million years and is known as an “astronomical grand cycle.”
The stronger currents, known as “giant whirlpools” or eddies, may reach the seafloor at the deepest parts of the ocean, known as the abyss. These powerful currents then erode away at the large pieces of sediment that accumulate during calmer periods in the cycle, according to research published Tuesday (March 12) in the journal Nature Communications.
These cycles happen to coincide with the timing of known gravitational interactions between Earth and Mars as the two planets orbit the sun, the study found.
“The gravity fields of the planets in the solar system interfere with each other and this interaction, called a resonance, changes planetary eccentricity, a measure of how close to circular their orbits are,” study co-author Dietmar Müller, a professor of geophysics at the University of Sydney, said in a statement.
Researchers have only recently been able to gather the data from deep sea sediments, thereby discovering the climate pattern related to the orbital interaction between the two planets. Müller explained how the orbits of Earth and Mars can cause shifts in the oceans.
“The gravity fields of the planets in the solar system interfere with each other, and this interaction, called a resonance, changes planetary eccentricity, a measure of how close to circular their orbits are,” he said.
On Earth, this has resulted in periods during which our planet received more radiation from the sun, thus creating warmer climates. The 2.4-million-year cycles contained “breaks” in the deep-sea record, and these breaks indicate periods of more vigorous ocean circulation.
The team’s findings indicate that the circular movement of water causing small whirlpools, or “eddies,” in the oceans’ depths was an important factor in the warming seas.
These eddies may have helped offset ocean stagnation, which many scientists predict would follow the slowing of Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC). AMOC is a vast system of ocean currents that carries warm water from the tropics to the North Atlantic Ocean. It is responsible for driving the Gulf Stream and maintaining warm climates in Europe.
Changes in the strength or stability of the AMOC have the potential to significantly impact global climate patterns.
For example, a weakening or collapse of the AMOC could lead to cooler temperatures in parts of Europe and altered weather patterns around the world. Scientists study the AMOC closely to better understand its dynamics and how it might respond to factors such as climate change.
“The freezing and melting of sea ice is not the only mechanism influencing deep ocean circulation. Deep-ocean eddies are predicted to intensify in a warming, more energetic climate system as major storms become more frequent,” Müller said.
The researchers suggest that these astronomically-driven cycles may also help to keep the ocean currents ticking, even in the face of climate change.
“Our deep-sea data spanning 65 million years suggest that warmer oceans have more vigorous deep circulation,” Dutkiewicz said. “This will potentially keep the ocean from becoming stagnant even if Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation slows or stops altogether.”
No climate model properly captures the complexities of Earth’s climate. Perhaps it is unwise to force unrealistic and expensive solutions on humanity based on the flawed data they generate.
For example, there was once an ice-free Arctic without a single SUV in sight!
The Arctic was much warmer and may have been ice-free 6,000 years ago. #ClimateScam https://t.co/MDM4ZhNK1jhttps://t.co/ITKJJAv5zi https://t.co/jowPxUvt0G pic.twitter.com/RGdu3y57Ju
— Tony Heller (@TonyClimate) March 14, 2024
Here’s a bit more on Mars:
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Comments
Mars is a white European warrior male, so we can DEI your “science”
No — it’s “global warring.”
Born of Zeus and Hera and despised by his parents. He is a B===D.
“New research shows”
Maybe. Perhaps. Possibly.
“Nevertheless, although speculative at this stage, the findings suggest that this cycle may help periodically maintain some of the ocean’s deep currents in the event that global warming decreases them, the authors say.
Oh. Right. Speculation.
C’mon man. Mars is like a thousand miles away. No way it has any impact on the Earth.
Oh yeah? Then explain how astrology works, smartarse.
<stage-whisper> What do you mean, it doesn’t? That’s astronomy you’re thinking of. Don’t you know anything? </stage-whisper>
Astrology attunes you to complexity, something you have have overlooked in your original analysis. Thusly (Thurber’s eye was shot with a bow and arrow in play, Vicki Hearne, Animal Happiness)
“Thurber’s biographers like to say astounding things such as that the loss of an eye in childhood was what accounted for his genius. For instance, according to Charles S. Holmes in _The Clocks of Columbus_, “The psychological impact of the injury was more significant than the physical … In compensation he cultivated his already crowded fantasy life … Some of the intense competitiveness which marked his character throughout his life obviously derived from this childhood injury and his natural desire to make up for it.” Holmes is not the only one who talks this way, and it is a very strange way indeed to talk. It is not unusual, of course, being just a new version of the theory of the writer as a human being manque. Or, as in this case, the writer as a baseball player manque. I suppose that Thurber’s brothers would also have been geniuses if only they had been in some way maimed early on. My suspicion is that if Thurber’s eye troubles can be said to account for anything about his life and career, they probably account for the difficulty he had seeing, for his having submitted to five eye operations, and maybe for his habit of writing short pieces, which are less physically (not psychologically) demanding than long pieces are.
“Astrology serves as a much better candidate for the Explanation of Thurber than psychology does. Thurber was born under the sign of Sagittarius, which rules, among other things, archery. The placement of the sun is what rules a man’s health, so a man born with any afflictions to the sun in Sagittarius is going to be vulnerable to health problems associated with archery. I don’t have an ephemeris handy for December 8, 1894, the date of his birth, but I bet there is either an affliction of the sun to Mercury, the planet of the eyes and of sense perception in general, or else an affliction from his sun to some planet in Gemini, Pisces, or Virgo. An affliction to Virgo, however, is made fairly unlikely by the enormous intellectual and domestic pleasure Thurber got from dogs – Virgo rules animal training. But Gemini rules dogs, so that lets Gemini as a source of affliction out. It was therefore probably an opposition to Mars in Pisces, which would also account for Thurber’s excessive dreaminess and his problems with alcohol, as well as the tenderer and more romantic spheres of experience, as Pisces rules love and all other intoxicants. I would also expect to find Uranus, the planet of the inexplicable and especially the planet of misunderstood geniuses, in the constellation Scorpio, which rules erotic thought, since his brilliant visions of the wars and comedies of the sexes are so persistently misunderstood.”
That’s way too long to be a good joke.
Comment of the day left wing lock
sorta reminds me of some folk song I heard back in ’60s
When asked about the new geophysical research that shows Mars is another potentially significant player in Earth’s climate change cycles, VP Harris retorted, “Well, see, Mars is doing it again. Let me be clear: they are going to have to pay their fair share.” Harris continued, “First Mars shrunk-inflated Snickers bars, and now they causing environmentally disfriendly, and deliberate climate change, which is a threat to our democracy.”
“this interaction, called a resonance, changes planetary eccentricity”. I’ve noticed quite an uptick in planet eccentricity even over my lifetime.
“Researchers have only recently been able to gather the data from deep sea sentiments, thereby discovering the climate pattern related…”
I guess that Poseidon was a sentimental old fool.
Leslie, the lines “No climate model properly captures the complexities of Earth’s climate. Perhaps it is wise to force unrealistic and expensive solutions on humanity based on the flawed data they generate.” seem to support the intended use of the word “unwise” vs “wise” in the second sentence.
Fixed. Thanks for the catch.
Biden administration to issue order banning oil and gas exploration on Mars in 3, 2, 1…
Since John Carter was a WASP man, can we blame it on him? Fans of century old science fiction/fantasy will understand. (Hat tip to Edgar Rice Burroughs.)
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How dare you, suh.
Captsin John Carter was a fighting man of VIRGINIA, not one of your WASPY yankee gadabouts.
What will those crazy climate scientists come up with next?!
Earth’s orbit is inherently chaotic. Shorter orbital astronomical cycles of 23, 41, 100, and 405 kyr have been established, confirming Milutin Milanković’s theory that Earth’s orbital variations modulate its climate. Longer, “grand” cycles are also predicted from astronomical mechanics. This study provides empirical evidence of the climatic effect of the Earth-Mars orbital resonance.
This cycle is not directly linked to the current rapid global warming, but the authors note that over long timescales, “how the Earth-Mars astronomical influence will interact with shorter Milankovitch cycles and current human-driven global warming will largely depend on the future trajectory of our greenhouse gas emissions.”
The interaction of orbits may end up sending Earth shooting outside the solar system, which is surely a climate downside, but would save it from the sun’s engulfing it as it dies.
rhhardin: The interaction of orbits may end up sending Earth shooting outside the solar system, which is surely a climate downside, but would save it from the sun’s engulfing it as it dies.
While the orbital mechanics of the Solar System are chaotic, it’s unlikely (99%) any of the planets will collide or be ejected over the next billion of years or so (absent an interfering event). See Laskar & Gastineau, Existence of collisional trajectories of Mercury, Mars and Venus with the Earth, Nature 2009. Mercury is the most likely source of instability, and there is a non-vanishing chance that eccentricies in its orbit could send Mars crossing into Earth’s orbit.
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does this include the well-thought-out proposals by Bill Gates and his sycophants
paracelsus: does this include the well-thought-out proposals by Bill Gates and his sycophants
Have no idea what proposals would affect Earth’s orbital dynamics. As for the Earth’s climate, orbital dynamics are much too slow and of the wrong sign to explain the current warming trend.
Note, a Z has set up residence. The Z people are a group of adolescents who are in a debate club. They are mining you for responses. Basically they have little understanding of their grand pronouncements. I ignore them as no matter what you say, they can not process. The kep phrase they desire help with in this series of comments is rapid warming. That has been shown to be misleading and not supported but would show up in a debate. If you desire to help children with home work, go for it.
Its funny that you claim they don’t have any understanding when they demonstrate the opposite and you demonstrate literally no understanding of anything at all.
Who knew the deep seas were so sentimental?
Those darn Martians and their SUVs! I’ll bet the bastards use gas stoves and incandescent light bulbs too! And cook their pizzas in wood-fired ovens!
Bullcarp! We all know the Martians don’t have SUVs. There is no possible way they have contributed to our greenhouse gases!
And their light bulbs are radium. Pfft. Shows how much you know.
Climate factors beyond the atmosphere, who knew LOL Of course there was a temperate period where there was no ice at the North Pole. Why do you think there is oil there. All that plant matter falling to the ground. It’s why the find all the Wooly Mammoths in Siberia and Alaska. Our planet goes through cycles from cold to warm. They’ve been teaching and researching that for decades. FJB
MoeHowardwasright: Climate factors beyond the atmosphere, who knew
Climate scientists.
Including those who think AGW is hogwash. Climate scientists are climate scientists. They have differing opinions. But not one of them as demonstrated that AGW is responsible for any warming, rapid or otherwise (while many would disagree that warming is even occurring, it depends on when you start the trend line). AGW is a theory. The models demonstrate (and do not prove) how the theory might operate in the real world. Nobody has proven that it is a reality, and there are competing theories. Science is not done by “consensus,” not matter how large the consensus may be.
DaveGinOly: Climate scientists are climate scientists. They have differing opinions.
Sure, but the vast majority who are actually publishing scientific studies strongly support anthropogenic global warming, including the authors of the study being discussed. Indeed, accounting for greenhouse gases is important for understanding Earth’s climate history even before humans existed. Consequently, climate science doesn’t exist without understanding the greenhouse effect.
DaveGinOly: But not one of them as demonstrated that AGW is responsible for any warming, rapid or otherwise
That is incorrect. Not only does the evidence show that the Earth’s surface is warming, the evidence is that it is a direct consequence of the increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases. You could start with the basics of the greenhouse effect, without which the Earth would be a frozen wasteland, rather than the balmy world that it is.
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Which climate models incorporate this factor?
AGW is a hypothesis. In fact it is just bull as it can not even support a hypothesis. Lots of scientist have made money getting our tax dollars for nothing. Turns out temp and carbon do have a relationship. As heat goes up, carbon follows.
david7134: AGW is a hypothesis. In fact it is just bull as it can not even support a hypothesis.
Anthropogenic global warming is certainly a viable hypothesis, and it makes specific empirical predictions, both in terms of particulars (e.g. direct observation of CO2’s increasing greenhouse effect), and in terms of the rate of global warming.
Ok here is a question for you can you explain the temperature trend being experienced. If it isn’t man made effects what is the explanation? Bearing in mind that the climate models have under estimated last years rapid temperature increase.
Paul: Which climate models incorporate this factor?
Among others, the study which is the topic of the discussion.
So, again, it’s something out of our hands. But, that won’t stop the hubris of people who think they know better to try and change it.
Greta says that more wind turbines would change the rotation of earth’s axis, and stop volcanos from spewing green house gases, and stop lightning from sparking wildfires etc. Don’t you believe in sCieNce?
Greta needs to watch “Climate the Movie”, 80 minutes, available on YouTube. It points out that in the history of the Earth CO2 is at quite a low level and we could benefit from more plant food – and that we would all be dead at not that much lower level.
the poor thing is severely mentally challenged – be kind.
Should she ever gain more IQ if/when she matures, she’ll wind up suing her parents for child abuse.
I read about this last week and found the idea that this alignment raising the ocean floor by a few feet interesting.
The two moons of Mars are mentioned in Gulliver’s travels long before science discovered them. That may come from Kepler’s mistranslation of an anagram from Galileo. OR the memory of when Mars came much closer to the Earth than usual.
What a load of crap… If what these “researchers” are saying can be believed, I’d like to know what influence, if any, Venus has on our planet’s climate… As far as I’m concerned, they can stuff it.
If Men Are From Mars, and Women Are From Venus . . .
. . . Are trannies from Uranus?
Venus impacts earth’s orbit once every 405,000 years. In that it is much larger than Mars I would expect the impact to be significantly more pronounced than Mars.
Venus effect is a bit higher than Mars, and both are tiny with respect to the earth.
Can we change the language from climate change to communism and make it stick?