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“First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people”

“First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people”

A phrase I read for the first time today, but which explains how the fates of Jews and Christians are intertwined. (Repost from 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7WAoczRV_k

In light of what is happening now in Israel, I’ve decided to repost “First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people” which I first ran on January 2, 2016.

I’m running it again because I’ve seen a number of comments here and elsewhere, that boil down to: “it’s not our problem.” I disagree. What happens in the Middle East, or Europe, or elsewhere with our close allies is our problem – what we do about it is a different matter. Something being our problem doesn’t mean we have to invade and occupy another country, we could decide to do nothing or something less than going to war. But pretending “it’s not our problem” is just pretending. The war against the Jews is also the war against the Christians – the U.S. is the “Great Satan” to the Islamists, and Israel is the Little Satan.

Anyway, here’s the post, again:

————

I’m surprised I had not heard the phrase in the title of this post before today.

Though I’m certainly familiar with the concept, it’s one we’ve explored here many times when discussing (i) that the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the inability of Muslims to accept any non-Muslim entity in the Middle East, but particularly not a Jewish national entity; (b) the plight of Christians in the Middle East who are on the receiving end of what would happen to the Jews in Israel if Israel ever lost a war; and (c) the Islamist-Leftist anti-Israel coalition, in which useful Western leftists are oblivous (at best, giving them the benefit of the doubt) to the threat they would be under if forced to live under the rule of their coalition partners as they demand of Israeli Jews.

I got to the phrase in a round-about way. First, I saw Martin Kramer’s Tweet linking to his Facebook post:

Exactly 40 years ago, Commentary published Bernard Lewis’s landmark article, “The Return of Islam.” Remember, in January 1976, the Shah was still firmly on his throne, the Muslim Brothers were nowhere to be seen, and there was no Hamas, Hezbollah, or Al Qaeda. So how did Lewis discern the “return”? He saw that regimes, including secular ones, were beginning to invoke Islam. This, he surmised, must be a reaction to a more profound trend. Perhaps the most prescient article ever written about the Middle East.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-return-of-islam/

Then I read through (skimmed parts) of Lewis’ Commentary article, The Return of Islam (Jan. 1, 1976), which is quite long.

The central thesis of the article is that the West completely misunderstands the nature of the conflict, seeking to put it in the types of “left” and “right” disputes that dominate Western politics:

“…. one finds special correspondents of the New York Times and of other lesser newspapers describing the current conflicts in Lebanon in terms of right-wing and left-wing factions. As medieval Christian man could only conceive of religion in terms of a trinity, so his modern descendant can only conceive of politics in terms of a theology or, as we now say, ideology, of left-wing and right-wing forces and factions.

This recurring unwillingness to recognize the nature of Islam or even the fact of Islam as an independent, different, and autonomous religious phenomenon persists and recurs from medieval to modern times….Modern Western man, being unable for the most part to assign a dominant and central place to religion in his own affairs, found himself unable to conceive that any other peoples in any other place could have done so, and was therefore impelled to devise other explanations of what seemed to him only superficially religious phenomena….

To the modern Western mind, it is not conceivable that men would fight and die in such numbers over mere differences of religion; there have to be some other “genuine” reasons underneath the religious veil….This is reflected in the present inability, political, journalistic, and scholarly alike, to recognize the importance of the factor of religion in the current affairs of the Muslim world and in the consequent recourse to the language of left-wing and right-wing, progressive and conservative, and the rest of the Western terminology…. “

I’m not going to try to summarize the rest of the article. Read it.

The article seems relevant to the ideological war on Israel by Western leftists who view “the occupation” as the sole and overarching reason for the conflict; they can’t admit what historian Benny Morris finally acknowledged about the Arab refusal to accept Israel’s independence — it was primarily a religious war against the Jews, not a territorial war (emphasis added):

“What I discovered in the documentation relating to the war, at least from the Arab side, was that the war had a religious character, that the central element in the war was an imperative to launch jihad. There were other imperatives of course, political and others—but the most important from the enemy’s perspective was the element of the infidels who had the nerve to take control over sacred Muslim lands and the need to uproot them from there. The decisive majority in the Arab world saw the war first and foremost as a holy war, but until today historians have not examined the documentation that proves this. In my view, they have also ignored Arab rhetoric of the day, which universally included religious hatred against the Jews, because they thought the Arabs adopted this as normal speech that did not emanate from deep mental resources. They thought this was something superficial, that everyone talked like this. But I am positive the Arab spokesmen in 1948 did go beyond this and clearly and explicitly talked about jihad.”

And it remains so today. David Collier has a brilliant take-down of the leftist Jewish “theoretical Zionist.” Read the whole thing, here is an excerpt:

It cannot be said often enough or strongly enough that Israel is at war. Not a theoretical ‘cold war’ but a real battle, a battle that they cannot afford to lose. Israel is only there today because the IDF is strong. Can you imagine if Israel was protected by extreme left wing ‘Zionists’? This is why Israel has lost campus, because its international diplomatic corp – the Zionists- have been duped into giving platforms and status to people who do not like the Zionist state. How do you defend something you don’t like very much? When someone from one of these left wing groups argues against BDS, how can they win? The position they put forward doesn’t even exist beyond a dreamlike theory of a Middle East that is disintegrating before Islamic radicalism as I write. Remember, almost every one of these people would have wanted Israel to give up the Golan in the 1990’s. Today, had they been given their wish, ISIS would be on the shores of the Kinneret.

But it was the opening sentence of the final paragraph of Lewis’ article that caught my eye and gave rise to this post (emphasis added):

In the period immediately preceding the outbreak of the Six-Day War in 1967, an ominous phrase was sometimes heard, “First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people.” The Saturday people have proved unexpectedly recalcitrant, and recent events in Lebanon indicate that the priorities may have been reversed. Fundamentally, the same issue arises in both Palestine and Lebanon, though the circumstances that complicate the two situations are very different. The basic question is this: Is a resurgent Islam prepared to tolerate a non-Islamic enclave, whether Jewish in Israel or Christian in Lebanon, in the heart of the Islamic world? The current fascination among Muslims with the history of the Crusades, the vast literature on the subject, both academic and popular, and the repeated inferences drawn from the final extinction of the Crusading principalities throw some light on attitudes in this matter. Islam from its inception is a religion of power, and in the Muslim world view it is right and proper that power should be wielded by Muslims and Muslims alone. Others may receive the tolerance, even the benevolence, of the Muslim state, provided that they clearly recognize Muslim supremacy. That Muslims should rule over non-Muslims is right and normal.9 That non-Muslims should rule over Muslims is an offense against the laws of God and nature, and this is true whether in Kashmir, Palestine, Lebanon, or Cyprus. Here again, it must be recalled that Islam is not conceived as a religion in the limited Western sense but as a community, a loyalty, and a way of life—and that the Islamic community is still recovering from the traumatic era when Muslim governments and empires were overthrown and Muslim peoples forcibly subjected to alien, infidel rule. Both the Saturday people and the Sunday people are now suffering the consequences.

I’ve never expressed an opinion or view of Islam as a religion, for the same reason I’ve never expressed an opinion or view on Christianity or Hinduism or other religions as religions — I don’t claim any expertise and casual conceptions of any religion can be wrong.

But you don’t need to be an expert on Islam to understand how Islam is practiced as a political matter in many parts of the world, and particularly in the Middle East. You only need to be able to read the news and to listen to what the Islamists tell us they want and intend on doing.

I believe Hamas when it says, in its charter, that it wants to slaughter all the Jews, quoting a passage from the Hadith:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one link in the chain of jihad in confronting the Zionist invasion. It is connected and linked to the [courageous] uprising of the martyr ‘Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam and his brethren the jihad fighters of the Muslim Brotherhood in the year 1936. It is further related and connected to another link, [namely] the jihad of the Palestinians, the efforts and jihad of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war, and the jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and afterwards. Although these links are far apart, and although the continuity of jihad was interrupted by obstacles placed in the path of the jihad fighters by those who circle in the orbit of Zionism, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to realize the promise of Allah, no matter how long it takes. The Prophet, Allah’s prayer and peace be upon him, says: “The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,’ except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (Recorded in the Hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim).

[Click image for video – opens in new window]

Getting back to how I could have missed the phrase, I must be nearly alone. Kirsten Powers has mentioned it on Fox News:

It’s been the subject of posts at The Weekly Standard (Saturday People, Sunday People) and elsewhere.

But I’m glad I found the phrase. It explains a lot.

About how the fates of Jews and Christians are intertwined, and not just in the Middle East.

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Comments

It already happened to Sunday people. It happened on 9/11. And as I recall the Palestinians of Gaza danced in the streets with joy. But that has all been forgotten and now many Americans are supporting the very people who cheered our destruction. And the ones who are living here will kill the very people who are protesting with them and supporting them when the time comes,

    txvet2 in reply to Peabody. | October 14, 2023 at 6:50 pm

    They killed more than a few at that rave in Israel.

      Peabody in reply to txvet2. | October 14, 2023 at 7:39 pm

      They sure did. So many were killed that Israel had no choice but to declare war. Then immediately the Pro-Palestinian sympathizers began crying out and protesting.

      Next time we have another 9/11 we’ll be in the same boat.

    Lucifer Morningstar in reply to Peabody. | October 14, 2023 at 7:58 pm

    >>It already happened to Sunday people.<<

    And continues to happen to Sunday people. Just remember how many Christian churches have burned in the last couple of decades. It's not coincidence that it's just Christian churches that are burning and not islamic mosques. It's all part and parcel with islam's goal of bringing everyone into submission.

      It’s not coincidence that it’s just Christian churches that are burning and not islamic mosques.

      I wouldn’t bet on that.

      Your claim sounds very like the one I read from A. M. Rosenthal back in the mid-90s, when the news industry set out to convince everyone that there was a spate of arson of black churches. Rosenthal, who was a very reasonable person, was taken in by this campaign, and wrote that if this wasn’t a sign of some sort of racist terrorist campaign, why was it that only black churches were burning and not white ones? A reasonable question, but it turned out to be wrong. It was soon revealed that white churches were burning too, and of the few black church arsons that were solved they all turned out not to have been racially motivated.

      So now I’m skeptical of any argument of that form. If we’re talking about the USA, I haven’t heard of any church arsons that were done by Moslems. It stands to reason that more churches than mosques would burn, simply because there are more churches than mosques. Especially in rural areas, which is where church arson is more prevalent, for reasons that have nothing to do with race or religion.

      Even in Canada where many cases of church arson can be definitively attributed to anti-Christian hatred, it’s not coming from Moslems but from radical leftists.

        caseoftheblues in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2023 at 6:04 am

        You spent more time typing that to prove how you are some kind of righteous intellectual skeptic than it would have taken to do an internet search to see that WITHOUT A DOUBT Christians and their churches have been under attack and destroyed at an extremely disproportionate number to mosques in the Middle East. But it’s you so color me not shocked

        pst314 in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2023 at 9:58 am

        If any mosques had been burned or bombed, it would have been on the front page of the New York Times.
        Synagogues and Jewish schools in Europe are closed for their own safety, but mosques and madrassas remain open. Jews are refraining from wearing Jewish clothing and jewelry, but Muslims are not changing what they wear.

        Concise in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2023 at 10:27 am

        Maybe one your studies can soon reveal those mosques and lslam adherents equally vandalized and attacked in France alongside all those churches burned down and priests violently murdered? Maybe the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a self-defensive action?

    Gosport in reply to Peabody. | October 14, 2023 at 10:19 pm

    Consider that the morons in college and university who are eating the palestinian propaganda with a spoon probably hadn’t even been born before 9/11.

    We have done poorly by allowing that propaganda to continue to be spread in order to keep from offending “allies” and will now pay dearly for it.

    pst314 in reply to Peabody. | October 15, 2023 at 10:07 am

    Indeed, it’s been happening to the Sunday people for 1400 years. And to the Saturday people. And to followers of every other religion.

The Sunday people are being attacked, look up church fire bombing in Europe.
Leftists don’t think of dying for a religion yet will go to the grave fighting for Leftism Religion.

2smartforlibs | October 14, 2023 at 4:02 pm

It’s been a while since I heard that phrase.

Islam is a religion of peace like Nazism is a benign political theory of government.

Expand your search for the enemies of Western Civilization, don’t stop at the first convenient clues. The neo Marxist ideology of oppressors/oppressed, stolen lands, occupation, virtuous victims and all the rest of that crap run deep and broad in some quarters. We see it in BLM, Antifa, eco extremists and trans ideology activists. We see elements adopted by mainstream political figures, legacy media and govt bureaucracy. It is rampant in academia and has been increasingly present in K-12 as well as our corporations. Every time a meeting begins with folks listing pronouns and apologizing for ‘occupying indigenous lands’ that same ideology is present. Don’t just look to Muslims to apply scrutiny, don’t ignore them either but damn sure don’t become myopic about them and then fail to recognize the much broader deeper list of potential adversaries.

    txvet2 in reply to CommoChief. | October 14, 2023 at 6:53 pm

    All true, but it’s also true that Islam has been our deadliest enemy for a millenium before anybody heard of Karl Marx.

    Gosport in reply to CommoChief. | October 14, 2023 at 10:24 pm

    What those organizations and modern militant islam have in common is their marxist/progressive roots, organization, agendas, techniques and operating procedures. All taught to them by agents of the former Soviet Union.

      Milhouse in reply to Gosport. | October 15, 2023 at 1:07 am

      Modern militant Islam has some roots in marxism/progressivism and the USSR, but not all. The Moslem Brotherhood, of which Hamas is part, has its roots in the German National Socialist Workers Party, which was socialist and Progressive but decidedly non-Marxist.

        pst314 in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2023 at 9:55 am

        That is correct: Strong Nazi ties going back to the beginning of European fascism.

        Concise in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2023 at 12:34 pm

        Granted some branches of the cult of Islam are more violent then others, but in no manifestation is it, at its core, a peaceful or tolerant religion.

          Milhouse in reply to Concise. | October 16, 2023 at 1:01 am

          Granted some branches of the cult of Islam are more violent then others, but in no manifestation is it, at its core, a peaceful or tolerant religion.

          That is just not true. There are several peaceful and tolerant branches of Islam. Here we are discussing militant Islam, which by definition cannot be peaceful or tolerant.

“Something being our problem doesn’t mean we have to invade and occupy another country, we could decide to do nothing or something less than going to war.”
What would be excellent is if the “something” we decide to do cleans up our own house, not some foreign land. We don’t need the agita any more than anybody else does, and how can the USA — which has been a storied sanctuary for the honorable politically oppressed for centuries — promise anyone sanctuary if we are not clear of the threat ourselves?

    The end of our story will be that our enemies used our laws, culture and open society against us.

    Nathan Shiba in reply to henrybowman. | October 14, 2023 at 7:27 pm

    Be specific, Henry. Define what “clean(ing) up our own house” means, please.

      JohnSmith100 in reply to Nathan Shiba. | October 14, 2023 at 7:42 pm

      Use you imagination.

      henrybowman in reply to Nathan Shiba. | October 14, 2023 at 8:11 pm

      Re-establish a government that respects constitutional rights and norms; an educational system that teaches facts and skills, not bias and leftist activism; a media that reports objectively and corrects its own errors promptly; and an economic system that rewards the productive and sidelines the parasite.

      You happy now? What did you think I was talking about, glowy?

      I’m talking about all the stuff the left denigrates as “whiteness;” the stuff that appeared on the Smithsonian’s hilarious “white culture” poster; and the stuff that, in absolute fucking fact, made America great in the first place.

      If that makes me a “white supremacist,” then sign me up for freedom, motherhood, and apple pie.

      Mmmmmmm, apple pie.

    I strongly suspect that when jihad comes to the US in strength, our house will clean itself. Wokeness is possible only in times of peace and prosperity.

Lucifer Morningstar | October 14, 2023 at 8:05 pm

Posted:

“And continues to happen to Sunday people. Just remember how many Christian churches have burned in the last couple of decades. It’s not coincidence that it’s just Christian churches that are burning and not islamic mosques. It’s all part and parcel with islam’s goal of bringing everyone into submission.”

https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/first-the-saturday-people-then-the-sunday-people-2/comment-page-1/?unapproved=1454914&moderation-hash=46c24c1c0372024264327d939465ea53#comment-1454914

And since my comments no matter how innocuous are automatically going into moderation I’ll just say farewell and not post any longer.

Farewell, don’t know what I really did wrong but it was fun while it lasted.

    Check and make sure you didn’t get some kind of ban or something by mistake. I once got banned because my email address looked suspiciously like a health-based spammer. It was a total accident and apparently they have to block a lot of them.

    The comment seems innocuous to me and I have no idea why it was disapproved”, although the fact that it was posted this time would indicate that there was something a lot more to it that you’re not revealing. I’d suggest that you persevere.

      henrybowman in reply to txvet2. | October 17, 2023 at 11:54 pm

      I’m pretty sure that URL goes directly to his unapproved, moderated post, so if you read it, you read exactly what he submitted.
      IT’S NOT LIKE HE COULD HAVE EDITED IT AFTERWARD.
      Oops, sorry for shouting. I’m a little sore on that side today.

“Islam from its inception is a religion of power”

So also is the religion of leftism.

I am neither a Saturday nor Sunday person but I do believe strongly in what I think is right.

Part of me wants to drop everything and head to Israel right now to help with their fight In any way I can. It’s a fantasy I know for many reasons, including my lack of combat training, but if it weren’t a fool’s errand, I’d be ready to risk my life for those people right now. That’s how strongly I feel about it.

George W. Bush once said that the US is not in a “holy war” against Islam. Upon hearing that, I wrote somewhere (here?), “If your enemy thinks he’s fighting a holy war against you, you’re in a holy war. What you believe about the nature of the war is irrelevant.”

“Here again, it must be recalled that Islam is not conceived as a religion in the limited Western sense …”
Exactly. Islam is three-pronged…theology, legal, and governmental.
It is also, seemingly, not a religion of peace.

    CommoChief in reply to herm2416. | October 15, 2023 at 9:00 am

    There are a great many parallels between what you describe about Islam being in many ways a system of theology, legal and governmental system and the first 1500 ish years of Christianity.

    IMO the difference is the passage of Christianity itself through the reformation and Western Civilization/culture passing through the enlightenment. Both processes caused a rethinking and refinement of the limits of religion and gradually removing its primacy from govt and legal systems. The culture of the West is still heavily influenced by Christianity and the Judaic origin/influence. Today our modern culture and institutions remain informed and influenced by our religious beliefs but we don’t go to war over them at the Nation State level.

    Islam hasn’t had a full on reformation as in the west nor truly passed through an enlightenment period. Individual Muslims have done so. A few more heavily western influenced Muslim Nations have done so to differing degrees. But not an overarching period we can point to which encompasses Islam as whole. That’s the key difference between the two IMO.

Something I saw mentioned in the wake of 9/11 after all the calls of “not all Muslims” was that the peaceful Muslims were only peaceful because they were bad Muslims. They were ignoring the calls for the jihad that is called for by their religion.

When Christians do terrible things in the name of Christianity there is always a strong pushback. The Bible and the words of Christ prove a powerful counter-argument to the arguments of the fanatics. But there is no such thing in Islam. The words of the Prophet and the Quran are clear, that non-Muslims need to be forcibly converted or killed. Young Muslims are particularly vulnerable to such messages, and when they commit terrorist acts they are following the true teachings of their faith. And it’s not like Islam is going to have a reformation, either. The faith is carefully designed to punish apostacy, heresy, and new movements. Gotta give props to the vile Muhammad and his cultists… they created a faith built for conquest that couldn’t ever be anything else.

    Paddy M in reply to Evil Otto. | October 15, 2023 at 10:13 am

    Islam just gives divine approval to man’s worst instincts. After all, their “prophet” banged a 9 year old.

    DSHornet in reply to Evil Otto. | October 15, 2023 at 11:07 am

    When I hear Christians being criticized for their short comings, I reply, “These are individuals and we know people do whatever they want. What are the ideals of the faith?” That’s how we can discern the threat: The ideals of the faith.

    Equating “Love your enemy” with “Kill the infidel” is just dishonest, but paying attention to who says what will tell us where we need to put our defenses.
    .

    DaveGinOly in reply to Evil Otto. | October 16, 2023 at 1:13 am

    Enduring enmity and constant warfare is not called for in the Bible, not even in the Old Testament. In the OT, God told the Israelites “kill those people,” “make war with those people,” but when the actions were over, that was the end of it.

I disagree. Israel became a nation in 1948 and immediately became involved in ending war against it’s neighboring states as well as the Palestinian people who had occupied the land since the end of Judea around 70 AD. The Eisenhower Administration (wisely) assumed a state of neutrality and refused to supply Israel with arms – they got them from France. JFK started selling them arms then LBJ made it a major project. Since then, Israel has been the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It’s only “our problem” because we made it one. As for attempting to make this a war of Christians and Jews against Muslims, remember that the occupants of Palestine after 70 AD were largely Christian,

Incidentally, this conflict is between cousins, the descendants of Abraham through his sons Issac and Ishmael and the other six he had with his wife after Sarah. It’s a family feud.

    healthguyfsu in reply to SamC130. | October 15, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    Israel was a nation long before that. That’s when the UN, which didn’t exist until 1945 recognized it as a nation.

    Milhouse in reply to SamC130. | October 16, 2023 at 1:10 am

    Israel became a nation in 1948 and immediately became involved in ending war against it’s neighboring states

    You mean the neighboring states immediately invaded Israel with the explicit, declared goal of finishing the job their German allies had left unfinished.

    the Palestinian people who had occupied the land since the end of Judea around 70 AD.

    Outright lie. There was no such thing as a “Palestinian people” until at least the 1960s.

    And most Arab inhabitants of what is now Israel were recent immigrants. That’s why the normal definition of “refugee”, which requires someone to have lived at least two years in the country they have fled, was dropped in this one unique case. Even of those who had been there for at least two years, the vast majority arrived in the 20th century, after Jews had started returning home in large numbers and had created industry and jobs for them. Before that, most of the Holy Land was uninhabited.

“There are several peaceful and tolerant branches of Islam.”

Name one, Milhouse. You say there are several, like most apologists for Islam. It should be easy. I’ve been showing my work when I’ve been demonstrating that there are no threads within Islam that preaches Muslims should live in peace and EQUALITY with non-Muslims.

Maybe I missed it. In four decades of studying the Quran and the canonical hadith collections I must have missed the peaceful verse. The several peaceful verses you say. Or at least the several peaceful ahadith in which Muhammad told his followers to chill and be nice to the Jews and Christians, and maybe even the mushrikun.

Please cite your source.

I’m going to laugh my a** off if you say the Ahmadis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-29415121

“Abdus Salam may be Pakistan’s first and only Nobel prize winner for his work in theoretical physics, but he was an Ahmadi and his gravestone has been defaced to remove the word Muslim.

The Ahmadi movement identifies itself as Muslim and follows the teachings of the Koran, but it is regarded by orthodox Muslims as heretical – because of its interpretation of certain Koranic writings.”

But you say there are several peaceful branches of Islam so pick one of the others.

    Milhouse in reply to Arminius. | October 16, 2023 at 7:53 pm

    I was going to say them as one example of many, because they are. That mainstream Moslems don’t approve of them doesn’t make them not exist, or not be Moslems. They are exactly what you asked for: a branch of Islam that disagrees with the mainstream.

    But there are more. Sufis in general are perfectly orthodox, and yet have a history of being peaceful and tolerant.

    So do Kurds in general, and they’re mainstream Sunni; not so much peaceful, since they can be fierce warriors, but they don’t believe in beating people up without provocation. If you leave them alone they leave you alone, and they have no history of persecuting religious minorities under their rule just because they can.

    Then there’s the self-styled “Global Council of Imams” and “International Fatwa Council”; sure, they’re fringe movements, but they exist and they’re orthodox Moslems.

    Then there are those Moslems in West Africa who follow the teachings of Sheikh Suwari (yeah, I got that one from Wikipedia), about how Moslems should behave themselves in countries where they are a minority.

    there are no threads within Islam that preaches Muslims should live in peace and EQUALITY with non-Muslims.

    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Equality is not a valid criterion. Almost no religion thinks that others are just as valid, and thus that other religions’ followers are equal to their own.

      pst314 in reply to Milhouse. | October 17, 2023 at 6:49 am

      Then there are those Moslems in West Africa who follow the teachings of Sheikh Suwari (yeah, I got that one from Wikipedia), about how Moslems should behave themselves in countries where they are a minority.
      How do they think Muslims should behave when they are no longer a minority?
      The answer affects whether they should be allowed to immigrate to the West. Right?