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Fake Outrage Over DeSantis “Listless Vessels” Comment

Fake Outrage Over DeSantis “Listless Vessels” Comment

Trump campaign and influencers, who have called DeSantis and his supporters every vile term imaginable, are trying to stoke anger over this: “The movement has… gotta be based in principle. Because if you’re not rooted in principle, if all we are is listless vessels that [are] just supposed to follow whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that’s not going to be a durable movement.”

It’s a day that ends in “y,” so it’s another day for the Outrage Machines to do their thing, and that is exactly what happened after a Florida Standard interview clip with Gov. Ron DeSantis set off the Trump campaign and the MAGA faithful, with the mainstream media also pouncing and seizing.

During the interview, DeSantis was asked about allegations from some of his critics—former President Donald Trump and his surrogates—that DeSantis was essentially an establishment “RINO” because, among other things, he’s supposedly “being controlled by the Bushes and the Cheneys.”

DeSantis’ response was to list his conservative achievements as both a former Congressman and a current Governor, noting that you wouldn’t see an “establishment Republican” do some of the things he’s done, like “ban transgender surgeries for minors,” “send troops to the southern border,” “eliminate critical race theory” from the public school system, and consistently demonstrate commitment to pro-life causes and upholding the Second Amendment.

When DeSantis was asked if he believed the Trump surrogates making those claims really thought he was a RINO, here’s what he had to say (transcribed from the below video):

“I don’t think they think it. I think that we have a strand in our party that views supporting Trump as whether you are a RINO or not. And so you can be the most conservative person since sliced bread, unless you’re kissing his rear end they will somehow call you a RINO. So it’s been totally detached from principle and what you actually believe and results, and it’s more about, you know, just what faction you happen to do.

So there will be people who are huge Trump supporters like in Congress who have like incredibly liberal, left-wing records that’s really just atrocious, and yet they’re viewed by some of these folks as like really, really good. Then you have other people like Congressman Chip Roy, who has endorsed me, Congressman Thomas Massie. These guys have records of principle fighting the swamp that are second to none, and yet they will be attacked by some of these people and called RINOs.

So it’s just been totally detached from any type of substance. And ultimately, a movement can’t be about the personality of one individual. The movement has gotta be about what are you trying to achieve on behalf of the American people, and that’s gotta be based in principle. Because if you’re not rooted in principle, if all we are is listless vessels that [are] just supposed to follow whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that’s not going to be a durable movement.”


I mean the gist of what DeSantis was saying was that the conservative movement had to be about principles, and not 100 percent revolve around one personality and simply waking up and getting marching orders from Truth Social. Which, in my opinion, makes perfect sense.

Naturally, the Trump campaign took it personally and accused DeSantis of referring to Trump’s supporters as “listless vessels.” They compared it to Hillary Clinton’s infamous “basket of deplorables” comments from 2016, and demanded an apology for the “disgraceful insult”:

But it doesn’t sound like Team DeSantis is going to be doing any apologizing.

DeSantis’ press secretary Bryan Griffin responded to Politico’s spin on what DeSantis said by suggesting DeSantis was talking about Trump and his surrogates with the “listless vessels” jab:

The dishonest media refuses to report the facts—Donald Trump and some congressional endorsers are “listless vessels.” Why? Because Trump and DC insiders feel he is entitled to your vote. @RonDeSantis believes your trust should be earned and has the vision, plan, and record to beat Joe Biden and reverse the decline of our country.

That’s why Ron DeSantis will be showing up on Wednesday night to debate, and Donald Trump will not.

“Listless vessels,” it should be noted, is a term both Gov. DeSantis and his wife Casey have used before:

The MAGA community’s outrage over the controversy surrounding DeSantis’ remarks caused some conservative influencers to do some quipping and flashing back while also making the observation that maybe some of their reactions proved the point:

Fair points or not? I’ll leave it to readers to debate.

For anyone interested, the full interview can be watched below:

— Stacey Matthews has also written under the pseudonym “Sister Toldjah” and can be reached via Twitter. —


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Fake my a$$

    Danny in reply to gonzotx. | August 20, 2023 at 8:42 pm

    The amount of spamming you have done including dehumanizing wonderful people has eliminated your right to take offense at anything.

    You are a listless vessel.

      gonzotx in reply to Danny. | August 20, 2023 at 8:49 pm

      Lol oh Danny boy you are special

      Keep riding that short bus Danny boy

        Danny in reply to gonzotx. | August 20, 2023 at 8:58 pm

        So all of those lists identical to other posts you made that could be found on other websites you spammed aren’t spam?

        By the way you have called me much worst than listless and did it many times.

        You are the last person with a right to take offense, it is as fake as your principles and yes you have worked on dehumanizing rich people who dedicated their wealth to fighting CRT on grounds that they are rich which means you have none.

      gonzotx in reply to Danny. | August 20, 2023 at 10:18 pm

      You are so
      Clever Danny boy

    GravityOpera in reply to gonzotx. | August 21, 2023 at 1:57 am

    Oh, the outrage itself is real. It’s the excuse behind the outrage that isn’t based in reality.

      MattMusson in reply to GravityOpera. | August 21, 2023 at 6:56 am

      More than outrage, this comment is significant because Governor DeSantis has made a choice against the Trump supporters. Of course, he wasn’t going to get their votes anyway. But, this means he will never get their votes. Even after Trump retires from politics DeSantis will never be his successor. A Rubicon has been crossed.

        CommoChief in reply to MattMusson. | August 21, 2023 at 8:27 am

        DeSantis is telling voters that a cult of personality isn’t enduring and that they should evaluate the substance not the sizzle in the primary.

        Seems like very good advice. The reaction to it by diehard Trump supporters is way out of proportion but the reaction does, ironically, seem to reinforce the need for the advice.

          SophieA in reply to CommoChief. | August 24, 2023 at 10:43 pm

          Finally, a sensible comment on topic. But will Trump’s people take that advice?

          Everyone here reads and writes in Standard American English so it can be assumed that people who are familiar with both HRC’’s comment and DeSantis’s comment should employ English grammar to both.

          HRC said that we ARE a basket of deplorables. Very insulting as intended.

          DeSantis said that IF we are. Way different.

          Those Only Trump people insist both comments are insulting are either disingenuous liars or they don’t understand the fundamental difference between “are” and “if.”

          I am disgusted with the dishonesty that surrounds this fake outrage. We’ve already lost in 2024 if this sort of childish behavior continues.

          I pray better angels will prevail eventually.

        kelly_3406 in reply to MattMusson. | August 21, 2023 at 10:42 am

        DeSantis is undoubtedly correct that the MAGA movement must be free of the cult of personality.

        But what DeSantis does not get is that he lacks the moral authority with Trump voters to make that point …. especially when he is trying to replace Trump.

        If he really understood the electorate, he would have explained that he understands the skepticism of the electorate, given the multiple Republican disappointments as supposed conservatives went native in DC (like Liz Cheney). He could state that he knows he has to earn the trust of voters and then explain how he intends to do that.

        An answer like that would be a positive message that he seems unable to give. Instead, he projects irritation that voters do not automatically support his contention that he alone can win the general election.

          he lacks the moral authority with Trump voters to make that point
          No, he lacks that “authority” with Trump *worshippers*. Which makes his point precisely.

          He already has earned the trust of voters.

          kelly_3406 in reply to kelly_3406. | August 21, 2023 at 3:34 pm

          GWB: DeSantis is polling around 16%. That means that 84% of the Republican electorate currently does NOT support him. Maybe I am misreading the mood of voters, but my interpretation of these numbers is that DeSantis lacks moral authority with the vast majority of Republicans.

          DeSantis supporters (most of whom seem to be on this blog) seem quite fervent about his candidacy.

          Despite his clear weaknesses, DeSantis may still right be able to right the ship (a listless vessel, as it were). But his prime objective should be to stop sticking his foot in his mouth.

          inspectorudy in reply to kelly_3406. | August 21, 2023 at 4:02 pm

          “Moral” authority? Are we talking about three-time marriage and multiple affairs Trump? Selling cheap wine and bad steaks as the best along with phony online college courses. Is that the moral giant that you are talking about? The guy who caused J6 but hasn’t offered to help one of them? Yeah, you are right, DeSantis is not in his moral league!

          GravityOpera in reply to kelly_3406. | August 21, 2023 at 5:19 pm

          Zero moral authority is required to make DeSantis’ point about principle instead of cult of personality. It would be just as true if Hillary said it. Truth is not dependent on popularity of the speaker.

          Per Merriam-Webster List is “a deviation from the vertical” as in “The ship had a heavy list to starboard.”

        GravityOpera in reply to MattMusson. | August 21, 2023 at 5:10 pm

        Thank you for proving the second half of my post.

    amwick in reply to gonzotx. | August 21, 2023 at 6:10 am

    Every blog needs with a comment sections needs a gonzo and a Danny.. You both lead with your hearts, and I admire your dedication… It was much worse before, I was actually afraid to comment because of the ad hominem attacks from one character.

    Opinions are just that, opinions,, for the most part neither right or wrong.. The exception is the people who are lawyers, like Millhouse, who comment on the legality of stuff. I have no way of knowing about that…

    inspectorudy in reply to gonzotx. | August 21, 2023 at 11:18 am

    I think you misspelled the word “Fake”. I believe it has a “U” in it somewhere.

DeSantis’ belief that he could replace Trump was chutzpah that backfired like chutzpah usually does.

DeSantis’ base is now the GOPe trash that helped him believe what is now a delusion. What DeSantis is going to find out is what treasonous ‘friends’ GOPe trash is when they dump him by the side of the road.

    JohnSmith100 in reply to | August 20, 2023 at 9:20 pm

    DeSantis had a great opportunity for 2028, which is probably now gone.

    GravityOpera in reply to | August 21, 2023 at 5:29 pm

    Replace Trump as Captain of the vessel? No. We are moving back to the good ship SS Constitutional-Conservative Principle and sinking the derelict wreck SS Cult of Personality, Populism, and Trumpism.

    Yes, follow that line of thinking right into another Biden Administration in 2024. Polls don’t lie. Trump is a known commodity and as the comments here have shown, people on both sides have solidified their opinions of him. He lost last time with his base (stolen election if you will) and it has only gotten more stratified this time. Trump is a lose/lose proposition. The media and out of control Dems have done their job too well.

I bet he was just dying to call President Trump’s supporters a basket of deplorables but somebody beat him to it.

    Danny in reply to Concise. | August 20, 2023 at 8:59 pm

    Fake outrage how Democrat sounding of you.

      Concise in reply to Danny. | August 20, 2023 at 9:08 pm

      I know you’re trying to be clever but it’s just not working. Kind of like the Desantis.

        inspectorudy in reply to Concise. | August 21, 2023 at 11:25 am

        You magas are so narrow minded that you do not realize that you are doing to DeSantis what the left has been doing to Trump for 6 years. You take a statement out of context and then run with it. Sarah Palin saw this same tactic used against her. What you don’t realize is that the more we see of the maga mentality, the less we like it and what Trump stands for. You and he basically are saying to hell with the Republicans and if any of you who are good conservatives don’t kiss Trump’s a$$ then you will be treated like this too. You and your ilk are blurring the lines between the left and maga.

          Concise in reply to inspectorudy. | August 21, 2023 at 5:44 pm

          And you appear unable to carry on a discussion without attaching labels and insults. Rather like a liberal pretending to be a republican. Try being honest for a change. Who knows, you might start to like it.

          They realize it and are fine with it. Their only objection to how the left operates is the target.

          They are doing it to DeSantis now but they started with Brian Kemp who ran and governed as the ultimate Republican stalwart.

          While they aren’t spamming over how perfect Trump was they are pretending Brian Kemp was a horrible governor and going after him in the same way a Christian Priest goes after Satan.

          inspectorudy in reply to inspectorudy. | August 23, 2023 at 2:50 pm

          I can’t directly respond to concise so I am responding to it now. There is a tendency on this forum to make stupid statements as if they know someone and what they are like or their personality. I talk tough but do not call people names. I may say your statement is stupid or you are lying but I don’t call names. I have been a conservative all of my life. I served my country in Vietnam, I have voted in every election that I was able to and have never had a liberal thought in my life. Just because I do not like Trump’s childish ways and the way he acts toward anyone who does not agree with him, people like concise make up their own version of my life. I am responding so that anyone who disagrees with me knows that it is policy and not politics. The one thing all mags have in common is their inability to discuss issues with facts and not make them personal. If I point out that he cannot work with Congress they either do not respond or say “Look at what he did in office”. None of it is still there! That’s the whole point, he can’t get anything done into law.

      Azathoth in reply to Danny. | August 21, 2023 at 2:18 pm

      Well, Danny, you would know.

Fake outrage is the norm. It’s the junkies talking among themselves that get the most incensed. It’s sad, yet sometimes entertaining, to see the reactions of partisans.

He made the connection and singled out Truth Social, however. To point it out is not fake outrage. Has he been asked why? We’re not talking about Biden whispering into the mic. It was perhaps not the best choice of words. He will have to explain at the debate.

For such a vaunted politico, he sure has stumbled a lot. He arguably has more riding on this debate than anyone.

    You are someone who wishes him ill who is begging him to do something incredibly stupid (continue courting your primary vote which is stupid you aren’t changing your religion from Trumpism).

    If he has any wisdom he will not answer anything you have to say and will instead go for the center as he should have from the start, and no the center does not like following Trump as a god king.

      Speak for what you are about, rather than tell others what they are about and think. Of course, you can always comment and respond to yourself.

        inspectorudy in reply to oldschooltwentysix. | August 21, 2023 at 11:27 am

        Aren’t you the one who continues to respond to his own comments?

        Anyone who sees anything you wrote ever on this election cycle sees you are just a regurgitator of whatever Trump has to say who loves who Trump orders you to love and hates who Trump orders you to hate, you have openly decided you don’t care about DeSantis’ Florida miracle and that you will lie to people and put it down informing them how the loss of senate and house seats by Republicans in Florida in 2018 was a super majority……yes you wish DeSantis ill in this election and he would be an utter and complete moron to keep trying to court your vote instead of pivoting to the center.

        Your only choice for the election cycle has no chance of winning the general election so I hope you lose.

        Unlike you I have never lied to people by pretending to be neutral.

        Your neutrality is as fake as your outrage.

      He will be asked about it. Don’t really care what he says one way or the other. But it’s predictable what you will say, and too often personal and accusatory. You would never get away with it in a setting of serious people.

    He’s not a saucey meatball, he left out the spice

    He actually is very uncomfortable around people. He was serving some
    Food at the Iowa fair and he literally never spoke to one customer, and they didn’t seem to know who he was. There’s a video out there and it’s hilarious

    He thinks he can win President Trumps supporters by dissing them

    Good plan dick

      amwick in reply to gonzotx. | August 21, 2023 at 6:12 am

      Fair point.. I always wondered if he really wore shoes with lifts in them.. That seems to be a kinda standing joke.

    healthguyfsu in reply to oldschooltwentysix. | August 21, 2023 at 12:43 pm

    Do you think Truth Social is good? Yes or no?


Are you
Dick’s bf?

Just curious

Father S.J.Brown (The World of Imagery) says you should root out your faults one by one. This idea involves faults, the real subject; and weeds, unexpressed but implied by the metaphor.

I’m having trouble with rooted in principle though. It seems not very well thought through. That would not be a good sign.

It seems to me he doesn’t know enough to have any judgment at all. He’s working off bits of script, unaware how the words work.

Trump is all about the performance of words.


    Read these:

    A Very Long List of Pres. Trump’s Accomplishments:

      I copied the whole page and saved it.

      Everything Biden made a show of cancelling on his first day would be a good list itself.

      Trump’s most impressive, and uniquely Trump, was making friends with NK. The deal was going along nicely until China read Kim the riot act.

      Trump finds a way to make a deal that both sides benefit from, is the recurring Trump theme.

        inspectorudy in reply to rhhardin. | August 21, 2023 at 4:10 pm

        “Trump finds a way to make a deal that both sides benefit from, is the recurring Trump theme.”

        How was it possible for Biden to CANCEL all of Trump’s wonderful programs on his first day? Because Trump cannot work with Congress to get anything passed. He FAILED at his job. He NEVER made a deal with anyone that’s why he is a failure at being POTUS. He may be a good businessman but was a terrible POTUS and probably will be again if he gets elected.

          deadrody69 in reply to inspectorudy. | August 22, 2023 at 4:54 am

          Trump can’t work with Congress ? For two years it was HIS OWN PARTY. It had nothing to do with Trump’s ability and everything to do with Congress, including Republicans not wanting to give anything to Trump except tax cuts, which is the ONLY thing anyone in the GOPe cares about

        Danny in reply to rhhardin. | August 21, 2023 at 9:44 pm

        How about his icy relationship with Germany and France, Russia and Canada?

        With Russia he most definitely alienated them and made our relationship with them when he murdered Russian soldiers unprovoked and without a declaration of war.

        The result of that was Vladimir Putin bided his time to see if the next president would reverse anti-Russian policies and when Biden announced “I don’t do red lines”…..enter the invasion.

        Stop trying to mythologize his presidency. He had successes (like the Abraham Accords) and failures (like his relationships with Russia, Canada, Germany, France, and the EU). If you want to discuss foreign policy Trump you need the failures with the successes.

    inspectorudy in reply to rhhardin. | August 21, 2023 at 11:33 am

    Exactly Hardon, Trump is all about words and nothing more. He will get nothing done if elected but a lot of words about how everyone hates him and all of his appointments are disappointing. Instead of fighting like a man and showing how tough he is, he is hiding and will not debate ever. Forget the American public’s right to see him debate all of the other candidates, it’s his ego that is at stake. Some day, you magas will realize that you have been used and when the party is over you will be thrown aside like used toothpicks.

      deadrody69 in reply to inspectorudy. | August 22, 2023 at 4:54 am

      Apparently you missed the 4 years he was already President

        inspectorudy in reply to deadrody69. | August 23, 2023 at 2:54 pm

        Did you even read what I said? I said he got nothing done permanently! When you go into a baseball game you learn to work with the refs you get. What Trump did was to say they don’t like me so I will do it without them. He did for four years and then it was all over. What part of not permanent is over your head?

Not outraged here, but a bit baffled.

What in the Hell is a “listless vessel”, anyway?

If I ever figure it out, maybe then I’ll be outraged.

    Being an ex-Navy guy, he should have said, “listing vessels”.

    Taking talking points from GOPe scum never works too well.

    gonzotx in reply to novaculus. | August 20, 2023 at 9:49 pm

    It’s a navy term apparently means a hollow container

    Hey Ronnie/dick

    Never go full hillary

    Milhouse in reply to novaculus. | August 20, 2023 at 9:55 pm

    Which word are you having trouble with? Both are completely normal words that any literate person has in his working vocabulary. Maybe Trump doesn’t.

    A vessel lists to one side or other. A listless vessel would be upright – keeping it on the level – unwavering. So, I guess it’s a compliment.

    Milhouse in reply to novaculus. | August 20, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    listless, adjective
    having or showing little or no interest in anything; languid; spiritless; indifferent:

    First recorded in 1400–50, listless is from the late Middle English word lystles. See list (4), -less

    list (4), verb)
    to like; wish; choose.

    First recorded before 900; […] cognate with German gelüsten

      henrybowman in reply to Milhouse. | August 20, 2023 at 11:20 pm

      Yeah, that’s all well and good until you add the context of vessel, then a whole new meaning applies which makes no sense at all.

        novaculus in reply to henrybowman. | August 21, 2023 at 12:10 am


        Listlessness is a state of mind. Inanimate objects cannot be listless.

        In any case, if I had to choose 1,000 adjectives to apply to Trump’s supporters, “listless” would not make the cut.

          henrybowman in reply to novaculus. | August 21, 2023 at 2:34 pm

          I strongly suspect DeSantis was reaching for “rudderless” and his mind just couldn’t find it. I’m getting more and more of that as I age.

          Plus, the sentiment makes sense: if you act out of personality instead of principle, you are rudderless… like the Code Pink NPCs we discussed recently who all changed their opinion when their cult leader did.

        Disagree. “Vessel” can also be something like a cup or bowl.
        A “listless vessel” would then be an empty vessel without direction.

        Either way it is mixing or busting metaphors a bit.

    GravityOpera in reply to novaculus. | August 21, 2023 at 2:05 am

    “Listless vessel” refers to a sailing ship that is sitting still and upright in the water, without the characteristic list taken when the ship is driven forward by the wind. It has no rudder control and cannot make way towards a destination but is simply carried whichever way the currents flow.

“DeSantis’ response was to list his conservative achievements as both a former Congressman and a current Governor, noting that you wouldn’t see an “establishment Republican” do some of the things he’s done,…”

You voted for TPP, just like other GOPe.
As a small business owner in a major American industry, I will NEVER vote for you, based on this legislation alone.

MA and small business owners GA!

    Danny in reply to herm2416. | August 20, 2023 at 9:19 pm

    I know your immune to reality but if someone is reading these comments they may actually lick on the link and see the actual political positions of DeSantis instead of meaningless terms like “MUH GOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

      herm2416 in reply to Danny. | August 20, 2023 at 10:38 pm

      You don’t know jacksh*t.

        Says the person who just said that DeSantis voting for a bill that never even made it to the House floor FOR a vote is a deal breaker.

        Much like that other deal breaker of yours herm, right? When you lied about DeSantis saying he wouldn’t pardon the J6 political prisoners. If all of these deal breakers you so firmly believe aren’t true, what do you have left? Ah, right, just blind Trump idolatry.

      Tel in reply to Danny. | August 20, 2023 at 10:38 pm

      Danny, honey, that’s not what herm2416 said.

      He said that DeSantis voted for TPP, which is true. DeSantis actually voted to fast track TPP:

      If you are a small business that was wiped out by a trade deal that hurt many Americans, you might not want to vote for DeSantis either.

        And what that “fast track” means, Tel, honey, is DeSantis voted for the TPA (NOT the TPP). And all that means is that TPP would have gotten a straight up or down vote AS IT WAS when eventually proposed to each House of Congress. Which means it could never pass both Houses at that time. Which is exactly what happened. The whole thing collapsed; in fact, the TPP never even came up for a vote at all in either House. And we are all grateful for that.

        Here’s a primer for everyone since it’s been a while since all the TPA, TAA, and TPP was going on, and it seems people might be mistaken about what parts did what (and it really is confusing, not the least because of the maneuverings that went on in order to kill TPP–as eventually happened, of course.).

        Trade Promotion Authority, or TPA, would “fast-track” the TPP and TTIP once they are finalized. This means that Congress will consider the deals without the opportunity for senators to filibuster or for members of either chamber to propose an amendment. It will be an up-or-down vote.

        . . . . what Congress voted on last week [June 2015] was whether to fast-track its consideration of the deals once they are finalized.

      deadrody69 in reply to Danny. | August 21, 2023 at 4:29 am

      Wikipedia ? Are you nuts ?

        As a former educator, I have to agree. Wikipedia can be an absolute joke if you don’t know how to use it. The key, of course, is to check the sources and then go to those sources and from them to the original source to determine what is real and what is Democrat spin.

        Unfortunately, people are not that motivated to do their own research (no matter how much they suggest others–often others far more knowledgeable then they–do so). This was a problem when I taught college freshmen (and, frankly, even seniors), and it’s apparently still a problem with random commenters on the internet.

      inspectorudy in reply to Danny. | August 21, 2023 at 11:41 am

      Magas like Trump, do not use facts. They call names and state nonsense as facts. Instead of touting their man for POTUS and letting others tout their choices, magas have to do what their God does and that is ridicule and insult the other candidates. Think about what DeSantis has done in purple FL! He has almost unanimous consent of the residents there. But somehow the maga crowd has turned him into Biden II. This is exactly what Trump does with anyone who is not loyal to him, not the country or Constitution. If DeSantis is such a loser, why even bother to discuss him? Because in your hearts you know he will get the job done if elected so you mimick your God and insult him and his accomplishments.

        I largely agree with you but with a little caveat that to them it goes much deeper.

        If DeSantis or anyone else defeats Biden in 2024 the Trump legend is over forever.

        If Biden loses to the first non-Trump challenge he faces……that really would crush everything and they know it.

        The dissonance that “MUH 2020 VOTAH FRAUD” with “MUH TRUMP ILL WIN 2024!”-They can not both be true.

        If Biden loses 2024 that is it for Trump’s attempt at forging a legend for himself, and for whatever emotional investment was made into Donald Trump. It is just less painful to accept another 4 years of Biden for them.

        deadrody69 in reply to inspectorudy. | August 22, 2023 at 4:56 am

        Sure. Keep following Ron’s lead and insulting people. That’ll sure work out great

          Wait, so you think insulting people is not a good thing and/or is bad political strategy? And you support Trump?! LMAO

          inspectorudy in reply to deadrody69. | August 23, 2023 at 3:00 pm

          Insulting people is Trump. That worked for him in 2016 but not anymore. People have tired of his nicknaming people he doesn’t want to debate the issues with or who pose a threat to his campaign. I voted for him twice and had hopes he would have matured just a wee bit, but no, he is worse than ever. The very few times DeSantis has mentioned Trump by name it is to point out his failures as POTUS and not ad hominin attacks.

George_Kaplan | August 20, 2023 at 9:24 pm

So DeSantis is a Trump supporter now?!?!?

He said “… if all we are is listless vessels …” which means he’s included himself in the group for consideration. And the Trump campaign and fringe supporters spun it as an insult directed at Trump supporters.

It’s an interesting metaphor | descriptor though, unlike Deplorable which is purely insulting.

    Milhouse in reply to George_Kaplan. | August 20, 2023 at 9:53 pm

    No, he’s a Republican. He said that we Republicans have to have principles, because if all we are is listless vessels that go wherever Trump tells us then we have no future, so we can’t be that. Listless vessels is exactly what gonzo et cie are.

    Exactly like the communists ca 1940: First Hitler was evil, then as soon as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed they became peace activists and when the war started they did everything they could to sabotage it, then when Hitler attacked Russia they turned on a dime and went all in on the jihad against him. Pete Seeger released an anti-war album in 1940 or thereabouts, and then when Russia joined the war he tried to retrieve and pulp every copy he could find because he was suddenly anti-peace.

      Milhouse, you need to be writing DeSantis’ copy.

      One thing that DeSantis needs to remember: when you come up with a colorful term, it can be turned against you. Trump, by the way, is the master of that. The term “fake news” began with the Democrats who were concerned about the preeminence of websites (like this one) over the mainstream outlets. Trump turned the term around and now owns it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the word “listless” applied to DeSantis himself at some point.

        Milhouse in reply to Tel. | August 20, 2023 at 11:19 pm

        “Fake news” as Hillary Clinton used it meant actual fake news sites, such as The Onion and The Babylon Bee, which openly make up what appear on the surface to be news stories, but are so implausible that readers are expected to understand that they’re fake. She was concerned about people mistaking these for genuine news.

        Trump changed its meaning, in part by pointing out that stories in what are laughingly called the “mainstream” news outlets are often no less plausible and no more true than those on the avowedly fake sites.

        Azathoth in reply to Tel. | August 21, 2023 at 2:56 pm

        Millhouse, or people like him ARE writing DeSantis copy.

        It’s why Christie hit the number two spot in NH, why Vivek keeps getting ahead of him.

        They’re trying to declaw him.

        The nevertrumpers are trying to make DeSantis into another JEB!

        And they’re doing it.

          CommoChief in reply to Azathoth. | August 21, 2023 at 5:22 pm

          You do realize that the professional Never Trumpers like the weirdos at Lincoln project and the cruise ship refugees from NR have been working overtime to slime DeSantis by using the same d/prog lies and talking points.

          It should also be pointed out that Trump and his surrogates have had no qualms in picking up d/prog talking points and using them against DeSantis themselves.

          The ‘outrage’ over the empty vessels waiting for instructions from Truth Social is thin skinned BS. Especially when right on cue instructions came down from Truth Social telling MAGADONIANS to be upset.

          deadrody69 in reply to Azathoth. | August 22, 2023 at 4:58 am

          So let me get this straight. You think NeverTrump is trying to damage DeSantis, the guys who was actually trending a tiny bit toward challenging Trump, the one they hate ?


          Azathoth in reply to Azathoth. | August 23, 2023 at 11:05 am

          “So let me get this straight. You think NeverTrump is trying to damage DeSantis, the guys who was actually trending a tiny bit toward challenging Trump, the one they hate ?”


          I think the uniparty or the deep state or whatever you want to call it needs both Trump and DeSantis destroyed and they are using, among other things, nevertrumpers to do it.

      deadrody69 in reply to Milhouse. | August 21, 2023 at 4:29 am

      So you think repeating what he said makes it better ?

      inspectorudy in reply to Milhouse. | August 21, 2023 at 11:43 am

      You’re wasting your time Millhouse. They all know what was said but like the left, they continue to misquote and twist his meaning. Reading the comments here is like watching msnbc and their truthful squad.

Just like Pavlov’s dog, the bell rings and the Trumpbots salivate.

    rhhardin in reply to txvet2. | August 20, 2023 at 9:35 pm

    John B Watson showed that if you showed an infant a white rat and simultaneously struck an iron bar, you could later induce fear showing the infant any soft item. That’s a step up from Pavlov.

    We have to work out the correspondences here. Maybe the iron bar is a mean tweet.

    No offense, but that sound a lot like fake outrage. It’s not just “Trumpbots” that are conditioned.

      Just the truth, and the fact that you strain so hard to find outrage in it proves that you’re so conditioned, you’re not even fun anymore. (When you say “No offense”, your next comment is intended to generate outrage. Didn’t work. I think you people would be hilarious, if the situation weren’t so serious.)

        Truth? So is the converse. You people? Misdirected hostility. You and too many others are too bent over EVERYTHING!

          But of course, that’s just projection. You Trumpbots are the ones who are wildly indignant over any criticism (or even anything you can wildly construe as criticism) of your Messiah.

          Not really. Needless namecalling, unprovoked, seems to be your calling. You never addressed what DeSantis said, only Trumpbots. Says a lot about projection. Not to mention your disparagement is fake outrage. Too bad you can’t see that. Better attack the Trumpbots!

          DeSantis’s comments are about as mild and inoffensive as you can get, and all the “outrage” is manufactured. Including yours. I’m only amused, and the more hysterical you get, the more amused I get.

          Maybe not so mild to people to whom the comments were directed, Doubt they were “outraged,” but they heard the words, too. Social media outrage, however, is fake. It always is. And jumping on “Trumpbots” because DeSantis insulted them is fake, too.

          Hysterical? You must be joking. You’re the one bent here.

          And yet I’m not. I’m only laughing at you. I’ve tried to tell you idiots before, and I’ll tell you again. I’m only reacting to you. I have no candidate in this race, and I won’t until at least February, because the Texas primary isn’t until March and you’re an idiot and a fool to get invested in a candidate who might not (and probably will not) be there when we vote.

    No, we “Trumpbots” just want our country back.

      It isn’t “your” country.

        deadrody69 in reply to txvet2. | August 21, 2023 at 4:31 am

        What is this trash ? Yeah, it absolutely is “OUR” country. Its yours too, FYI.

        Good to see the comments at LI full of GOPe stooges.

          txvet2 in reply to deadrody69. | August 21, 2023 at 12:39 pm

          Of course it’s mine too, which is of course the point when some Trumpbot claims it belongs to them. I didn’t know that you were GOPe stooges, but I’ll take your word for it.

          Good to see the comments at LI full of GOPe stooges.
          And this is what has turned so many people off. And it’s incredibly indicative of a cult of personality. You people need to stop drinking the kool-aid so you can marshal actual arguments.

          And mind you, this criticism is coming from the guy who thinks we should just invite the British of 1812 back to D.C. and rebuild from there.

        amwick in reply to txvet2. | August 21, 2023 at 6:28 am

        It used to be.

      inspectorudy in reply to | August 21, 2023 at 11:49 am

      You are lying! That is not your goal or you wouldn’t trash anyone else who wants that as their goal. That’s all any of you do and to say the country is first is just a lie. It’s Trump that is first and nothing else matters to any of you. If Eisenhower had said that it was only Patton who could win the war, Bradley would have never gotten to do his work. That’s where you magas are with Trump. We need all of our fighters to win this war and not just one man.

Does anyone really think DeSantis is electable if he says stupid stuff like this?

At this point I he is unelectable.

I think a little about Vivek, but I want to know what he did at the BioTech company. If I don’t like it and Trump is running behind when my state comes along, I’ll cross over and vote for RFKJr.

If somehow DeSantis is the candidate.For the first time in 40+ years I will cross over and vote for RFKJr if he’s on the Dem nominee. Otherwise I will write in “None of the Above”. I can’t hold my nose hard enough to avoid the stench of that piece of rotted piece of shit DeSantis.

At this point anyone who thinks that other Trump supporters will act much differently is frankl.y, stupid.

    You may be the most honest Trumpbot on the board. Most of the Perotistas like to pretend they’re actually independent. You are almost unique in that you admit that you’re actually a Democrat, as was Perot.

      thad_the_man in reply to txvet2. | August 20, 2023 at 11:35 pm

      Yeah. A person who has consistently voted Republican for 40+ years, the only exception being for Chicago elections, because the only candidates are Democrats, is a Democrat. This shows the lack of intelligence of the average DeSantis voter.

        Obviously, I’ve never voted for DeSantis, since I live in Texas. However your lie about voting Republican is unprovable either way, except for your own promise to vote for a Democrat.

    I think a little about Vivek, but I want to know what he did at the BioTech company. If I don’t like it and Trump is running behind when my state comes along, I’ll cross over and vote for RFK Jr.””

    RFK Jr. : NYT archives 2009.

    Do your homework.


    I think a little about Vivek, but I want to know what he did at the BioTech company.””

    Do your homework.

    RFK Jr. is fetid pond scum. Search on New York Times archive BrightSource; Mojave; Feinstein

    TY Thad for being so honest. My issue is that if all this lawfare is successful, and 45 is not the nominee,, I am not sure what I will do. If the charges all got magically dismissed, and there was another R candidate (45 does not fairly win the primary) , I would then have to support them. But that just seems so unlikely at this point.
    This Trumpbot empty vessel will have some hard thinking to do..because I will vote, I consider is a solemn duty.

      thad_the_man in reply to amwick. | August 21, 2023 at 12:40 pm

      The top problem in the US is the Deep State. The Deep State is almost as scared of RFKJr as they are of Trump. So the choice is easy.

        GravityOpera in reply to thad_the_man. | August 21, 2023 at 5:39 pm

        The Deep State is scared of DeSantis. That’s why the MSM is keeping Trump in the news and the Dem prosecutors are setting up a martyr trap while bots run around claiming that the Dem cheat machine is unbeatable so don’t bother voting.

    inspectorudy in reply to thad_the_man. | August 21, 2023 at 11:51 am

    “Does anyone really think DeSantis is electable if he says stupid stuff like this?”

    There is an old saying, “To be thought a fool is one thing, to open your mouth and prove it is another”. If you can read what he said and come away with any sort of insult then you my friend are a fool.

Every time DeSantis and his supporters try and conflate the GOPe conservervatives with the America First Trump movement the more they show themselves to be Karl Rove / Bush neocons.

Desantis supporters here just can’t admit that his slide in the polls is entirely his own doing.

    Karl Rove / Bush neocons are the reason Obama was elected, which gave us VP Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the like. They’re pure poison.

      Who the hell are you talking to?

      Karl Rove has been irrelevant in politics longer than millions of American voters have been alive you aren’t going to make him a boogeyman for them, and if you did what they would hear is “vote Democrat”.

      You are trying to make an irrelevant has been relevant as your imaginary boogeyman.

      You may think you aren’t disgusting but that is one of the stereotype disgusting things in politics that turns people off.

    Danny in reply to garybritt. | August 20, 2023 at 9:53 pm

    Yes we never saw tax cuts, and higher military spending before the Trump era, and why tariffs the last time prior to Trump we saw that was Bush, and trade deals with China, why I can’t remember how long it was since Obama, Bush, and Clinton pursued exactly the same policy….

    The slide in the polls is the indictments which is actually shown in the polls themselves.

    You have the same agenda in terms of who to nominate as the Democrats.

      txvet2 in reply to Danny. | August 21, 2023 at 12:14 am

      Well, not to get in the middle of a good fight, but you do have to keep in mind that you’re arguing with Perotistas, who’ve made it a project for over 30 years to elect Democrats.

        Danny in reply to txvet2. | August 21, 2023 at 11:13 pm

        To be fair 30 years ago the difference between Democrat and Republican was a lot less than it is today but I am inclined to agree.

A) DeSantis calls MAGA supporters in Congress ‘listless vessels,’ says Trump didn’t drain swamp

B) DeSantis At NH Town Hall: Trump “running in 2024 on the things that he promised to do in 2016 and didn’t do”

C) DeSantis: ‘Of course’ Trump lost in 2020

• The key question is not: Are the DeSantis headlines fair, fake outrage, etc.?

• And the key question is not: Is DeSantis getting the headlines he wants?

• The key question is: Why does DeSantis want these headlines?

    “Why does DeSantis want these headlines?….”

    He’s probably asking himself that himself. He fell in with a bad crowd: the GOPe, and they’re using him, and they’ll spit him out first chance.

    I predict he’ll have a Come to Jesus moment, much like Megan Kelly did.

    deadrody69 in reply to luckydog. | August 21, 2023 at 4:34 am

    And GOPe Ron DeSantis won’t even try.

      I really don’t understand how you can imagine DeSantis is an establishment Republican. Practically every single thing he’s done has been anti-establishment, from co-founding the Freedom Caucus while he was in the House to every single piece of legislation he has pushed and then signed into law as governor.

      It seems that anyone who is not Trump or supporting him is “GOPe” to you guys. That doesn’t make any sense at all and renders “GOPe” an empty term. This is what the left does with language; they use it randomly until it is meaningless (think “RAAAACIST!!!”).

      There is nothing establishment about DeSantis’ policies or agenda, and there is nothing establishment about pretty much anyone here. Most of us are far to the right of Trump (including DeSantis himself, actually) and far to the right of the entire GOP establishment (and most members of Congress), so this is just . . . silly.

        IMO, it isn’t the candidate so much as the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Trumpbots, such as myself, wonder about Ron’s donors. The impression I have is that the elites have supported him.. Until they didn’t.

        45 has the hearts of many blue collar people now. Ron? I don’t think so. You can skillfully (and rightfully point ) to his policies and prior voting, but politics is, after all, a popularity game. Call it a cult,, doesn’t matter, That is the crux of it.

          I have no problem with anyone supporting Trump, but I do wish you guys would stop lying (actually, I don’t think you intend to lie, but dropping that same story here is odd unless you are trying to misrepresent what actually was reported).

          The donor the article you linked is talking about is Robert Bigelow, and I don’t know what is wrong with his donating $20 million to DeSantis (or the $10 million to his gubernatorial bid in ’22).

          Particularly when you find out the actual facts (which are all right here. In the article.):

          –Bigelow donated the $20 million in March
          –Bigelow told DeSantis’ campaign to “moderate,” particularly on the six-week abortion law
          –DeSantis signed the abortion law the very next month . . . DESPITE this huge donation

          That’s problematic and “establishment” how? That shows he’s “bought” how?

 (archive link of the original Reuters story all these other sites are reporting on)

          “He does need to shift to get to moderates. He’ll lose if he doesn’t … Extremism isn’t going to get you elected,” Bigelow said in an interview, adding that he had communicated these concerns to DeSantis’ campaign.

          When asked which specific policies Bigelow did not support, Bigelow cited only DeSantis signing in April a bill passed by the Florida legislature banning abortions after six weeks, a move that came after Bigelow had donated the $20 million. [my emphasis]

          So, let’s review: Huge donation comes in. Donor tells DeSantis’s people (apparently hasn’t even spoken to DeSantis himself!) to “moderate” and not be so “extreme.” DeSantis keeps doing what he thinks is right. The donor expresses that he does not think DeSantis should sign a six-week abortion bill into law. DeSantis keeps doing what he thinks is right and signs the bill into law. Donor gets huffy and says he won’t donate anything more. DeSantis keeps doing what he thinks is right.

          That seems like a pretty good chain of events to me. What part of this chain of events doesn’t work for you?

          That makes me like him even more.
          I’ve long said that if I ran for office, I would accept campaign donations from anyone. Then I would continue on with acting on my principles as stated, regardless of the donation.

Great job, Ron. You’re cooked. Time to bow out gracefully

Schlichter got it wrong in his tweet. Trump does indeed call Ron “MEATBALL DESANCTUS”, but has never disparaged Republican voters as far as I am aware.

DeSantis reveals his candidacy is still in amateur hour. Whether he said it directly or not, DeSantis strongly implied that Trump supporters are listless vessels. Not exactly a winning strategy to attract new supporters.

MoeHowardwasright | August 21, 2023 at 6:58 am

Listless vessels, dead heads, cultists…they are all descriptions of the fanatic Trump supporters. He can do no wrong, they hang on every word, they cheer at every indictment. They truly believe without any rational look at the failure to have competent people in place previously or now. Trump is his own worst enemy. If you can’t see it, your vessel is sunk. As sure as the Titanic is at the bottom of the Atlantic.

The most interesting (and entertaining) part of this dust up is the response by the ‘Trump War Room’; ‘The truth is Trump Supporters are Patriots’. We will find out exactly how enduring that ‘patriotism’ is should Trump not become the GoP nominee.

Numerous Trump supporters here and elsewhere have made a habit of telling everyone they won’t vote for anyone but Trump and he isn’t the GoP nominee they will stay home in Nov ’24. Seems that the ‘MAGADONIANS’ have severe case of sunshine Patriotism and will stay summer Soldiers.

The response on Truth Social was bizarre. Almost cult like in attempting to deflect any impulse to question what info was coming down from on high. I do appreciate being handed the the term ‘MAGADONIANS’ though.

I’m going to agree with DeSantis here in this regard: The entire political scene is filled with ‘listless vessels’ or more appropriately might be called ‘mindless parrots.’
–The Media will happily repeat everything the DNC says, even if it is completely different than yesterday or goes straight against known fact.
–Many Dem commentators (on Twitter particularly) take a knee-jerk reaction to anything a (R) says. (think of them as anti-parrots)
–Some Trump followers (and DeSantis followers and whoever else followers) have little social media presence other than what a bot would display. Yea, yea, rah, rah, click.

One thing I appreciate about LI is the commenter’s thought that goes into refuting or agreeing with political points.

The Only-Trumpers are willing to turn the country and the world over to the fascists by blindly following the juvenile ignoramus into the bowels of history. Ignore them. Hitting Trump from the right is easy and effective. Every insult should be returned with: “Tell me Lockdown Don, other than childish insults, what’s your plan for not collapsing the economy and losing the House, Senate, and Presidency again?”

    MarkSmith in reply to Joe C.. | August 21, 2023 at 1:54 pm

    BS. It is you that is not willing to fight for fair election. Until the problems are fixed it will not matter who the person running.

Probably a little late to weigh in on this one – and I knew this would fire up the commentators – but my view is simple.

It’s an unforced error by DeSantis. You don’t potentially insult the voters of the person you need to woo votes from.

Trump aims his fire primarily on DeSantis. You know the MSM will use this to divide the party further.

I agree some of Trump’s influencers on social media are a huge turn off. I don’t like them. The worst of them are repulsive. But you don’t hand them easy ammunition.

Attack on policy and differences and stick to it. Over and over. Nuanced arguments about what the movement is about – meh.

Complaining that the other guy has a devoted following is stupid. Give them a reason to be devoted to you.
Tell me what you are going to do to fix things.

In business, when customers are loyal to a competitor beyond reason – price, value and service you are better – but they are loyal to the brand … then You have to earn their brand loyalty. And saying customers are stupid for sticking with a choice past its expiration is a dangerous game – it can be done, but it has to be done with a certain style.

What I see in DeSantis is a failure to understand how to market and persuade people outside of his very lawyerly like mindset. Which is persuasive to other lawyers I am sure.

But there aren’t enough lawyers to persuade in the primaries.

I would like to see him do much much better than he is, but he has more work to do to get his campaign together. He’s one of my favorite governors and has a chance of actually understanding how to drain the swamp and execute on it.

But he will never get there without understanding how to connect with voters.

    I agree with this assessment. This is one of those things that I knew what he was saying, but that he got off into the weeds with it and made an unforced error, as you say. But we have to ask, so what? How many times do Biden and Kamala and Trump say the absolute dumbest things, and it gets brushed aside, played down, ignored, and etc. Heck, I spent four years typing up post after post “explaining” what Trump “really” meant and bashing the NeverTrumpers and the Democrats for purposefully misreading him.

    And I think that’s what’s happened here; there’s a pile on of deliberate destruction based on something that these same people would bend over backwards to excuse as 87th degree chess or just a father’s love, or whatever. People who HATED when this was done to Trump are gleefully doing the exact same thing to DeSantis. It’s disgusting.

    The problem for DeSantis, I think, is not that he needs to watch every word he says but that he needs to do the opposite. He’s my governor, and I think he’s the best governor not just that I’ve seen in Florida in my lifetime (well, adult lifetime) but that he is quite literally the best governor in America. When he’s “on,” as he was during the covid plandemic, he was ON. He was doing his thing, brushing off criticism from the left and the right, up to and including from then-president Trump, and he was great. I watched a great number (certainly not all) of his press conferences, and he was great. Loose, charming, funny, on point, articulate, and fearless. And he was the same when he was dealing with Hurricane Ian, sans the funny part, of course, given the seriousness of the situation. He got it done, and he did it flawlessly (so flawlessly that the Democrat hacktivists were reduced to complaining that his boots were too clean and white!).

    THAT is the DeSantis I wish America could see. Not this guarded, trying-too-hard DeSantis. He wants to be president (and he would be a GREAT president, I have no doubt), and he’s lost the plot a bit. He has time to turn it around, and I sincerely hope that he does.

      PrincetonAl in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | August 21, 2023 at 12:59 pm

      I was in Florida earlier in my life and during the pandemic, so yeah I agree he is the best Governor FL has had. I enjoy what he does. Rufo to New College is awesome. COVID handling was great.

      But even then I rarely enjoyed hearing him speak. That’s the issue. Would I vote for him for President? Yes. Trump? Yes. Both in a heartbeat.

      I even think DeSantis would be the better tactician in office when it comes to dismantling the deep state.

      But he has to be able to campaign. My take was he won in a landslide for reelection because of what he did, not how he campaigned. Rare in a sense, but the Democrats who voted for him that I know never liked him, they just voted for him because he did a good job and they knew it. It was a pragmatic vote. It would make him a shoo-in for re-election if he makes it to the White House … but that’s a huge if.

      As for how he gets out of the guarded state he projects and be authentic – I don’t think he can. He’s never been a great campaigner.

      That was my issue from the earliest discussions of DeSantis for President – how is he going to connect with some of the blue collar vote nationally that Trump pulled in. I never saw it. Still don’t.

      The influencers and the nasty things Trump’s campaign arm says are not responsible for that – and may not even be helping him. They don’t impress me.

      My assessment is the same as it was before this started. Let’s see how it plays out – we will know in the first two or three primaries.

        inspectorudy in reply to PrincetonAl. | August 21, 2023 at 4:23 pm

        I am amazed at what you just said. DeSantis is probably the best man to run the country but he can’t campaign very well. That tells me that voters are looking for a TV personality, not ability and that the more outlandish a candidate is the better chance he has to win. F the country, let’s have a good time!

          PrincetonAl in reply to inspectorudy. | August 21, 2023 at 7:58 pm

          I am just calling it as I see it – not saying life is great or fair. But yeah sometimes lousy but telegenic and smart campaigning candidates win. Sometimes the party bosses try to rig the primaries. Sometimes both.

          I live in a late primary blue state. I have no impact on the outcome it will be decided by the time it comes to me.

          I just want to win in November with either. Both would be better for the country than any ‘D’.

          My greatest concern is vote integrity. Neither can win unless it’s a landslide or vote integrity is addressed.

    Attack on policy and differences and stick to it.
    But this is the whole point of what DeSantis said.
    I don’t think you can run on what needs to happen and NOT make this statement and, thereby, piss off those voters. That’s why “voting harder” is not a real solution.

My problem with DeSantis (and of course, whether it be Trump or RDS or Vivek, I will vote for them) is that he genuinely does not seem to understand the threat.

These Trump indictments are not really meant to just keep Trump out of office. It is a precedent to keep ALL Republicans out of the White House.

Does he not think this would be used against him?

If he were to win the nomination, does he not realize that our Stasi (aka The FBI) would run this garbage against him?

The DC indictment precedent will ultimately be used against ANY Republican that gets uppity.

Only Vivek seems to get it (or at least admits to doing so).

    PrincetonAl in reply to Eric R.. | August 21, 2023 at 1:03 pm

    I agree. He comes across as if this is uniquely arrayed against Trump. It’s not. It will be the playbook against everyone going forward.

    Folks who lean the other direction like Asa Hutchinson make me want to vomit. Actually denying there is an issue with the deep state and pinning it all on Trump.

    Voters see it and feel it in their everyday life with cancel culture. DeSantis guardedness and lack of empathy on this issue is a mistake.

    I think deep down he actually does get it. Why he thinks the need to hold back and distance himself is indicative of someone who is campaigning by committee … and trying to please a bunch of different strategists and theories about how he should campaign and speak.

    Usually a losing strategy when behind.

    GravityOpera in reply to Eric R.. | August 21, 2023 at 5:52 pm

    DeSantis is already facing the same threats. This is just the latest variant in decades of Democrats using the same tactics. To accuse him of not understanding is absurd.

    Texas sheriff files criminal case over DeSantis flights to Martha’s Vineyard
    Sheriff recommends charges over flights arranged by Florida governor to deport 49 South American migrants to wealthy island

    Newsom threatens DeSantis with kidnapping charges after migrants dumped twice in four days
    This article is more than 2 months old
    After 16 South Americans were abandoned outside a church on Friday, another flight of 20 migrants arrived on Monday morning

    inspectorudy in reply to Eric R.. | August 25, 2023 at 6:38 pm

    Vivek is a con man that makes Trump look like a schoolboy. He has been cheating and lying about how he made his money and he is as bad as Biden but from a different angle. He and his buddies bought a failed drug from a big pharma company, renamed it, touted how great it was going to be, and then took two years to run “Tests” on it but once again it failed. But he and his buddies made a fortune from a failed drug by hyping it under a new name. The hair on my neck jumps up when he speaks.

      I cannot stand Vivek. He’s everything you say and worse. He apparently tried to sell the U.S. government on some program that would make all Americans’ personal medical information available to pretty much everyone, everywhere. He’s a complete snake, and he’s clearly clueless about the most basic American concepts.

      He has no idea how our government works or that we have three co-equal branches. He makes promises that he can’t possibly keep. Eliminate the Department of Education on “Day One”? Oh really? How’s he going to do that since it was established by an act of Congress and will take an Act of Congress to abolish? And no, this is not a case where he thinks YOU are stupid. He’s the stupid one.

      When he talks about America, and I’m not even kidding, he is reading memes from Twitter and Facebook. There is not a genuine, authentic bone in his body. He has no clue what America is or what it means, and whatever “America” he loves is just like that future “America” Obama wanted to fundamentally transform us into. It’s not real, it’s not Constitutional, and it’s not even identifiable as America. Ditch Israel? WTAF?! His foreign policy is centered not on the U.S. but on India. He’s not running for president of India, nor are the best policies for India’s immigration and import the best for America. But listen to him. When he’s not reading memes from Twitter and Facebook; he’s utterly clueless about our country, the economy, foreign policy, ANYTHING. He’s a sponge who absorbs and oozes out memes as ‘policy.’

So much pretzel logic here. Just can wait to see him serving Meatballs photo op. Bee where are u?

    See whom serving what?

      MarkSmith in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | August 21, 2023 at 3:06 pm

      Desantis serving a plate of meatballs

        I still don’t get it. 🙁

        (Yes, I know that some Only Trumpers think it’s funny or cute or demeaning or biting or clever or whatever to use the slur against Italians “meatball” when referring to DeSantis, but I don’t get your joke. Or insult. Or whatever you were going for here.).

          MarkSmith in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | August 22, 2023 at 7:52 am

          Interesting. Trump to such comments like Orange Man Bad and used it to his advantage. I think u are too heavy engaged in the person than the political. Trump does represent attack against abuse of government policy. This is the beliefs behind tea party and most conservatives. Desantis is weak on his positions. Calling him meatball makes people cry. The vessel thing is so far off base as identifying Trump supports it bring in to question another topic. Team Desantis is out of touch. This thread just tries to put lipstick on a pig. Trying to justify what Desantis said just makes him look worst. Why did he even say it?

    inspectorudy in reply to MarkSmith. | August 21, 2023 at 12:02 pm


If it’s a fake outrage why are you DeSantis supporters so been out of shape about it?

For such an experienced politician DeSantis sure does suck at politics.

    Because it’s the exact same thing that used to incense YOU. Remember when the media couldn’t wait to jump on Trump for saying Nazis are “very good people” or for saying that all Mexicans are rapists and murderers or when he told people to shoot up bleach to cure covid? All utterly wrong and untrue and used ONLY to smear Trump, to drag him down with deceit and lies. Did that bend you out of shape? (Careful, I’m pretty sure I can quite easily find your prior comments and post them for everyone to reflect upon.) It sure bent ME out of shape. I wrote about the vile and disgusting sorts of people who think that is fair or acceptable very (very) often over the four years of Trump’s presidency.

    Are you suggesting that this behavior is perfectly fine in every single case that does NOT involve Trump, that it’s only worth getting bent of shape when it’s Trump being smeared and wrongly accused of saying and meaning something he didn’t? Or is it . . . you know, maybe a little . . . okay to be equally upset when it’s done to someone other than Trump?

    Or do we hold Trump in higher regard than everyone and everything else, maybe on a pedestal? As a near-god? We have no principles or basic human decency in any way, shape, or form unless Trump is involved, then we suddenly care? Because Trump? Otherwise, being—living, breathing, eating, drinking, and exuding—the thing we hate is totes fine? Because we don’t actually hate the behavior or spirit behind it at all; it’s okay to lie and smear and be walking soulless evil . . . if it’s in the defense of or to protect Trump?

      chrisboltssr in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | August 21, 2023 at 11:23 am

      Nope. I don’t let namecalling bother me. And if its namecalling based on a lie it bothers me even less.

      Here’s a question for you though: If you knew all of the stuff said about Trump was a lie why do you hate Trump so much and don’t want to support him? 2024 should have been very easy, but some of you sorry conservatives and libertarians don’t realize how conditioned you have been made by Leftist messaging yourselves.

      But it’s “listless vessels” that’s got you bent all out of shape and you “true conservatives” for DeSantis get all butt hurt. That was the point of my post: If it’s fake outrage, why are you guys mad? Truthfully, the person you should be mad at is DeSantis, who is turning out to be an absolutely inept politician.

        CommoChief in reply to chrisboltssr. | August 21, 2023 at 11:56 am

        Inept politician? The first test of a politician is getting elected. DeSantis won three HoR races and two Gov Races for a 100% batting average.

        Trump won in ’16 and whatever else occurred in ’20 (and a lot of shenanigans did occur) he wasn’t successful in ’20. So Trump has .500 batting average which would be above elite HoF level if it was baseball but this ain’t baseball.

        Instead it is politics where you are only as good as your last election. Even including the ’22 midterms the candidates handpicked by Trump for major Statewide offices, Gov, US Senator, were not successful. PA, AZ, GA, all swing States that Trump must win to be elected were captured by d/prog.

          chrisboltssr in reply to CommoChief. | August 21, 2023 at 12:28 pm

          Yes, inept politician. There is more to politics than just winning races, yeah?

          And I am one of those people that don’t accept 2020 results. Trump won that election and it was stolen from him. And the theft didn’t occur in 2020. It began in 2016. And even still, Trump won the biggest office in the land without EVER being a politician. Tell me what other man did such a thing? If this were a truly sane country we would be talking about that historical achievement, instead we get caught up in Trump hatred because the Leftists, NeverTrumpers and SomewhatTrumpers are consumed with Trump hatred.

          So yeah, I don’t care what offices DeSantis won prior to his presidential run. Winning a Congressional seat in a safe district is not that much of a feat. Winning office in a state that was already trending red is not that much of a feat. Trying to win the votes of the entire country, however, is. And you shouldn’t be saying things your intended audience might have a different interpretation of, no matter how anodyne you intended it. That’s what makes him an inept politician.

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | August 21, 2023 at 5:36 pm

          There’s lots more to being a successful politician than getting sworn into office that’s very true but none of those happen if you are not sworn into office.

          The single most important of those other things is fulfilling your central campaign promises. So where a candidate promised to ‘build a big beautiful wall’ then didn’t deliver once in office, voters notice that.

          ’20 had shenanigans on a grand scale that, IMO, threw the election to Biden. I can’t prove it, nor can anyone else, b/c we.can’t ID specific ballots that shouldn’t have been counted once they were mixed in with legit ballots. Sucks but there isn’t a way to remediate ’20 and continuing to invoke ‘I wuz robbed’ comes across like cry baby whining after a certain point. Especially when the person most impacted, Teump, didn’t choose to devote the time since Biden inaugural in tightening up election security and ballot integrity.

          I get what you are saying about anodyne statements being purposefully misread but in comparison to the statements Trump has made? Not even close to comparison in terms of PO voters.

        inspectorudy in reply to chrisboltssr. | August 21, 2023 at 12:10 pm

        This is one of the dumbest comments yet! You simply don’t get it. It is you who is bent out of shape over “Listless Vessels” not us. It is you who can’t take one word of negativity against Trump without name calling. It is you who raged against the msm doing this to Trump on so many issues yet you and the magas resort to it like pros. I used to think only the left was hypocrites but now I see it is much broader.

          chrisboltssr in reply to inspectorudy. | August 21, 2023 at 12:30 pm

          I’m not bent out of shape over any comment. I’m laughing at you DeSantis supporters. Why you so mad? I didn’t even know about this “fauxtroversy” until you people started bitching about it. Maybe you should have just ignored it.

        healthguyfsu in reply to chrisboltssr. | August 21, 2023 at 12:42 pm

        “Nope. I don’t let namecalling bother me. And if its namecalling based on a lie it bothers me even less. ”

        bahahahaha bullshit

          chrisboltssr in reply to healthguyfsu. | August 21, 2023 at 1:37 pm

          LOL, you’re talking to a black man that’s been called a Nazi, a white supremacist, an Uncle Tom, an Uncle Ruckus, a coon, a sellout, a n!gg@r, and all kinds of other words. I just laugh and wait for people to call me something original.

          Don’t you ever get on here and accuse me of lying. I don’t have anything to gain from giving you sorry DeSantis supporters bullshit. You’re all making clowns of yourselves.

        1. I don’t believe you for a single second. You are outraged at DeSantis over something fake right now, so no I don’t believe you had thick skin when Trump was under attack.

        2. Your interpretting opposition to Trump as hating him shows you do not have thick skin concerning Trump so again back to 1 I don’t believe you.

        3. 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023, he spend months inciting people to anger and then brought those very angry people to a situation without security where rioting could look good due to anger knowing that the book would be thrown at them if something went wrong out of egotistical narcissism, he has engaged in sheer hubristic stupidity with documents he illegally retained causing a special counsel………..his record as president is to say the least mixed.

        I could go on.

        However Fuzzy can express why she opposes Trump being nominated herself.

        What I can express is I don’t believe you and you contradicted yourself by displaying thin skin in the very post you claim to have thick skin.

        By the way if to you defending a politician means you are buthurt that means YOU have been buthurt for two years because I have seen you defending Trump like he was the messiah for two years.

    inspectorudy in reply to chrisboltssr. | August 21, 2023 at 12:03 pm

    “For such an experienced politician DeSantis sure does suck at politics.”

    But he gets the job done! Maybe a little less showmanship and a little more leadership might help Trump win.

RdS made the comment purposefully and intentionally, with the hope that the response will put him in the news cycle for an extended period, thereby increasing his exposure and separating himself from the other candidates as the one Trump is “worried about”..

It’s the sign of a failing campaign.

RdS’s best move has always been to EMBRACE Trump and promise to reinstate all of Trump’s energy, economic and foreign policy once in office. But that is the problem: Nobody in DC or Wall Street wants that; they want a listless vessel of a President (like Biden) who will continue to protect their interests. And if those interests impoverish the American Middle Class, so be it.

    GravityOpera in reply to George S. | August 21, 2023 at 6:05 pm

    Sliming himself by embracing Trump wouldn’t help. If he did so he would be abandoning the conservative principles and effectiveness he’s shown as Governor and we would abandon him in return.

DeSantis: “Because if you’re not rooted in principle, if all we are is listless vessels that [are] just supposed to follow whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that’s not going to be a durable movement.”

Only Trumpers: “He called us listless vessels (whatever that means)! Let’s sink HIS vessel and drown him!”

If they heard what he said about kissing Trump’s butt, that was another red flag (the kind you shouldn’t wave at a bull).

Here’s the thing: if you don’t agree that we need to operate on principles – such as the ones that founded our country – then you’re not really a “conservative”, you’re simply after power. And power without principle is simply authoritarianism. And it won’t accomplish anything meaningful.

And some Trump advocates have again and again made the point that they are simply followers of Trump. They do not adhere to much in the way of principles (I’ve been attacked for simply saying that Trump is not much of a conservative, except compared to the extreme Progressives driving the Democrats) except regaining the Presidency for “Republicans.”

But who cares if it’s a Republican in the White House (for a single term, mind you) if he doesn’t do much to actually advance those principles I keep ranting about? All you’re doing is, at best, postponing the Democrat Progressive agenda for four years. “Listless vessels” indeed.

This was why the parties used to actually campaign on their platforms. They were the things they claimed as the principles upon which they would make decisions and what they would work toward. We know those have been mostly lies for the last couple of decades. But they’re still important – we just need to make sure they actually mean something.

Trump supporters: please look at what is actually happening to him, not just externalities, but his own actions and statements.
DeSantis supporters: please keep a weather eye on his campaigning – also known as marketing – and see what you can do about getting that fire to show better.
Everyone: please get a good understanding of what your own principles are, and hold all of these candidates up against that measure. Otherwise you’re just screaming about who should win Mr America, not the chief executive position of the greatest country on earth.

If you needed DeSantis comment explained you probably shouldn’t be commenting on it pro or con.

It makes sense. We should not be simply drifting waiting for the next thing to pull us along. That’s a valid point.

The trouble with it is that we’re not. doing that. And we’re ESPECIALLY not doing it by paying attention to the candidates during campaign season.

People reading what Trump says on truth social aren’t listlessly drifting–they’re actively seeking information. As are those that read up on DeSantis or Christie, Pence or even Hutchinson.

Most, in fact are seeking info on all of those and more.

But the statement makes an admission that perhaps wasn’t meant to be acknowledged.

The current is Trump.

The direction motion goes in when one is not doing anything is towards Trump.

Not DeSantis.

For the left to win Trump AND DeSantis need to be destroyed.

Don’t help them.


Is there any possibility this is a transcription error – and what RdS really said is “listless vassals” ? Or RdS is mispronouncing vassal as vessel?

Merriam Webster says:

vas·​sal ˈva-səl
: a person under the protection of a feudal lord to whom he has vowed homage and fealty : a feudal tenant
: one in a subservient or subordinate position
vassal adjective

Wordnik says:

A person who held land from a feudal lord and received protection in return for homage and allegiance.
A bondman; a slave.
A subordinate or dependent.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
More at Wordnik

    GravityOpera in reply to MrE. | August 21, 2023 at 7:44 pm

    I posted this earlier, but it’s kind of buried:
    “Listless vessel” refers to a sailing ship that is sitting still and upright in the water, without the characteristic list taken when the ship is driven forward by the wind. It has no rudder control and cannot make way towards a destination but is simply carried whichever way the currents flow.

      I posted similar …

      “Vassals” is a better fit in the overall context of his statement than “vessels”. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard someone conflate and then mispronounce similar sounding words. I did listen to the clip – he clearly enunciated “vessels”. Don’t imagine anyone has the stones to ask him if he meant “vassals”.

    I don’t think so, MrE, simply because this is a term that he uses on occasion, and as Stacey points out in her post, it’s also a term that his wife has used before. I think it’s one of those verbal ticks that people pick up and then use in conversation as a matter of course. Sort of like that time Trump got (falsely) accused of mocking a handicapped reporter, but then all these clips came out of that just being how he mocked anyone he thought was stupid or subservient of in some way beneath him. That means he wasn’t mocking the handicap but the reporter’s stupidity, etc. as seen by Trump. Interestingly, since that whole dust-up, I can’t recall Trump doing that imitation again. So maybe this phrase will drop from DeSantis’ lexicon, as well? Not that it really matters (in either man’s case).

      “Verbal ticks that people pick up” is what I was getting at. On rare occasion I find myself correcting the pronunciation and spelling of words people use when speaking or writing to me. My dear wife loves the word “rendering” which she learned by hearing and repeating when in fact the word is “rending” or “tendered”. I’ll tease her and ask how best to serve her “rendered heart”. 😉 My nephew used the word “spicket” several times recently when he meant “spigot”. It’s that put me to considering how we learn, some by hearing, others by reading and going to the source. Where I read and write most of the day, I tend to be a bit of both. When I hear an unfamiliar term, I go to the dictionary – a habit I learned in middle school.

      There’s no way of knowing what RdS intended short of asking him, and with the more negative connotation of “vassal” over “vessel”, I can’t imagine he’d admit to word conflation and mispronunciation. Nevertheless, I’m struck by the mindless and slave like connotation of vassal and don’t disagree with that word choice as better to describe some of the Trump faithful. Mostly, I’ll just grin in amusement and wonder what he really meant.

        Heh, some of that can also be attributed to one’s region. For example, my dad still says “ruf” instead of “roof,” and I noticed while listening to Oliver Anthony’s song (over and over) that he adds an “h” to the front of words that start with vowels (hain’t, heat for “eat,” etc.), which I think must be a native “verbal tick” from the Appalachians as it is something I have heard before.

        But it reminds me, too, of an episode of Forensic Files in which a truly horrible woman murdered her two husbands and then attempted to murder her own daughter and pin the murders on her. She got caught out, in part, because she kept calling antifreeze, “antifree,” including in the typed “suicide” note she wrote for her daughter (who survived, but what a life she must be having knowing her own mother tried to kill her).

        I kind of doubt that DeSantis doesn’t know how to pronounce vassal, though. He’s a pretty well-educated, articulate guy. But who knows, he is from Florida, and we do sort of drag out our vowels down here, so maybe that is some kind of inside joke between him and his wife? Like you said, we’ll never know. 🙂