Trump May Have Handed The Feds What They’ve Spent Seven Years Seeking – A Prosecutable Charge
My interview on the Tony Katz Show about two things that can be true at the same time: The 7-year prosecutorial hunt to prosecute Trump is despicable, corrupt, and dangerous, while at the same time Trump may have handed the hunters just what they were looking for.
I appeared this morning on the Tony Katz Show to talk about the reported indictment of Donald Trump related to the documents he had at Mar-a-Lago. I will generate a transcript when I can, but here’s the short version.
Two things can be true at the same time: Prosecutors at the federal and state level have been on a 7-year hunt to find something on which to successfully prosecute Trump. It’s corrupt, it’s disgusting, and it’s dangerous to our society. The second thing that can be true at the same time, depending on what the evidence shows, is that Trump may have given the prosecutors just what they were looking for as to what Trump did with the documents in question once he knew that the feds were seeking the return of the documents.
I know people don’t want to hear that. They want only to focus on the justifiable anger at the targeting of Trump. But in the real world, we assess things as they are, not as we want them to be.
Trump is at great legal risk, something I have posted about repeatedly, including last March, Alvin Bragg Is Trump’s Legal Sideshow, The Main Ring Is The Mar-a-Lago Classified Documents Case:
The legal circus that will grow in the next year, however, does have a main ring. And that main ring is no joke. It’s the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Not so much that Trump had them, but whether he directed his lawyers to lie to the feds, obstructing justice. Unlike all the other legal drama, if proven, that’s a simple legal theory of criminal liability, unlike all the attenuated and legally-stretched theories in the other cases….
Keep an eye on the Mar-a-Lago documents case.
[If video does not load, click here to listen]
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Comments
It wouldn’t have mattered what he did or did not do. This is a bogus indictment, generated by corrupt, sleazy criminals.
No. When you are a hunted target what you do and say matters even more because you are under a spotlight while being dissected through a microscope. Trump gave heaps of dirt to bury himself under.
Just or unjust, that much is universally true.
Over a dozen inquisitions House and Senate, Mueller and Durham and you saying there is a BS tape. Give me a break.
Trump, or none of us are not obligated to assist in our prosecution but now the corrupt DOJ is turning that into a crime?
I am not being snarky. I really want to know just why a lawyer is obligated to cooperate with the prosecution when such cooperation may be to the detriment of his client? And just how would justice be obstructed if the prosecution had to rely on other sources in the investigation?
Simple: lawyers are not allowed to lie on behalf of their clients. Be it to an investigator, prosecutor, or judge, a lawyer cannot lie. A lawyer can refuse to answer. A client may lie but if the lawyer knows for certain that the client is lying then the lawyer is duty-bound to reveal that.
This is both law and legal ethics, and for the same reason: our system is predicated on the belief that, when a person is under oath, what they are testifying to is true. That’s why we have substantial penalties in the law for perjury and its several variants. Lawyers, due to their oath and bar ethics, are implicitly under oath when talking with investigators, prosecutors, etc. So they’re bound to tell the truth.
Prosecutors and investigators, in particular, hate being lied to (an FBI agent may lie, but he hates being lied to, go figure). It causes them to waste their limited time and resources and boy howdy does that set them off. So if they catch you lying they are going to charge you and go after you in court.
I get where Prof. Jacobson is taking this. Remember the mantra of Watergate — “it wasn’t the crime, it was the conspiracy afterwards”. Same idea here — holding a document that perhaps Mr. Trump wasn’t entitled to hold is a small thing. Ask Sandy Berger. But lying about it? Oh yeah, they’re coming after him.
My remark was in reference to when a lawyer’s client is being investigated and the lawyer is approached for information. I was under the impression that in such circumstances the lawyer can decline to cooperate if it would mean violating attorney-client privilege or cause harm to his client.
However in the case referenced in the article the lawyer was compelled by a judge to testify before the grand jury because she ruled an exception to the attorney client privilege known as the crime-fraud exception existed. I would agree a lawyer under oath is prohibited from lying.
PS. Notice I did not ask why an attorney was not allowed to lie. Lying bad. Declining full cooperation to preserve attorney-client privilege is not the same thing as lying.
One would think having a judge claim crime-fraud exemption to the attorney-client privilege and then forcing the attorney onto the stand would result in him/her taking the 5th repeatedly unless given immunity, which I don’t believe (I could be wrong) happened in this case.
If you want to assess things as they are, know that Hillary Clinton is back selling merch and openly bragging about how she evaded justice. Nobody has time for this kind of talk. You ask people to sit and watch the fall of the republic because Trump made a boo-boo.
Making what is tantamount to an admission of guilt on tape and potentially in front of a cooperating witness in Mark Meadows isn’t a ‘boo boo’ it is a flipping disaster.
If as is being reported the Feds have him on tape telling folks he took classified docs that he then says he Did Not declassify and then invites someone in the room to look at them….that’s a serious problem for his defense counsel.
Very Big IF, if this is as is being reported Trump may have cooked his own goose. Again Big IF. It wouldn’t be the first time the media tried to oversell or sensationalized a mole hill into a mountain so this story could be complete BS.
Thanks Prof. Jacobson for the interview. I really don’t think Trump handed them anything. I agree it has been a 7 year witch and as always, it has been a process crime that they have pushed.
I really don’t like the Biden distraction. It is interesting that the push for the Biden document came out the same day as the indictment.
I think this is bigger than this squirrel moment and what Biden did. We are missing something here and it mush be huge because the cover up is so large.
There are some questions that are not being asked that I think people need to look at and ponder…
All previous presidents’ records were sent to a location near the president’s home residence that was controlled by NARA
As soon as every president since Reagan left office, as required by the Presidential Records Act were moved by NARA (National Archives and Records Administration) and the GSA (General Services Administration), and it was NARA and the GSA, not those presidents, that moved those documents out of the nation’s capital to NARA-managed temporary archival facilities near where their permanent presidential libraries would be built. The NARA-managed facility where records from the George H.W. Bush administration were stored was indeed a former restaurant and bowling alley, but it had been turned into a full-fledged archival facility, and professionally secured in various ways, by the time the documents were moved in. When Obama left office his records went to a NARA controlled property in Chicago, in fact it was a closed up furniture store.
Why was Trumps records sent to Mar A Lago. Why didn’t the GSA and NARA move them to a NARA controlled site in the first place? Trump did not move himself the GSA did…..
Did NARA set president Trump up? Why am I the only one asking this question?
Interesting. I had not heard that before. I had assumed others had packed everything up, It’s absurd to think President Trump was filling boxes like a homeowner making a move but I really don’t know the standard practice regarding temporary storage.
Everything about the transition from one administration to another, the move, packing and unpacking and just about everything else is all handled by the GSA. The president and his staff didn’t have to move anything but themselves.
However I want to split this news the fact remains that the only time I learned anything about the contents of the “classified documents” was leaked by the FBI after they removed them from Trump’s possession.
We’re talking presidential documents and, if anything, a dispute between the National Archives and President Trump on the disposition of those documents. Whatever the merits of the position of the National Archives, this is not a case of espionage or a criminal matter. Therein lies the problem and why this is nonsense. Even if the National Archives has the better argument, the Biden administration prosecutors are perverting the law to make this into a criminal matter to punish a political rival and probably with the intent to distract from Biden’s real crimes.
That is my take on it as well. I am of the opinion that Trump is being charged under the Espionage act because of the prison term violations of that act carry. I honestly searched for what penalties apply for violating the Presidential Records Act and could not find any. Even doing cross references did not enlighten me.
That’s because there are none. There is no criminal enforcement mechanism in this context.
I think it is cute when conservatives pretend that this has anything to do with proof, evidence, the law, justice, or the legal system…..this is a naked use of power to attack a republican enemy…and that they do it to Trump shows they are now ready to deploy it against anyone who gets in their way. Can we please stop pretending this is anything but the democrats taking the mask off completely? That the days of playing the election game are over?
And as a lawyer yourself, if your client asks you to lie to the feds you would say okey dokey since you pay me?
Been some time, last year probably, that Barky has a warehouse full of documents, unsecured waiting for his Presidential Library that won’t be built anytime soon. But no one is looking into that now.
Since everything was being leaked by the FBI, Democrats, CIA, etc. while Trump was in office, is there any proof that these documents weren’t already in the public realm.
Regardless of the merits of the case, can anyone tell me why we should be interested in someone who had ample evidence for many years that they were out to get him and apparently did not immediately turn over everything asked for, classified or not (in his opinion).
Trump has repeatedly shown poor judgment – in selecting officials, Sessions, Rosenstein, Wray, etc; catastrophically giving Fauci such prominence and listening to him; and responding as he did in this obviously risky documents situation. He not only did not drain the swamp while in office, he enhanced it, to his own detriment.
If he had turned it over, immediately, they would have just dug somewhere else.
When the Government wants to prosecute you, they will succeed.
Lavrenty Beria is smiling.
This is from Tom Fitton
I’ve carefully reviewed the indictment of Trump by his political opponents at the Biden Justice Department. (.@JudicialWatch
has nearly 30 years of experience litigating federal and presidential records issues, including the famous “Clinton sock drawer” case.) The document dishonestly ignores the U.S. Constitution, the Presidential Records Act, legal precedent, and the DOJ’s/Archives’ previous position that WH records a president takes with him when he leaves the White House are presumptively personal and not subject to review by partisan Biden appointees at DOJ or Archives. Under the Constitution, federal law and precedent, none of the documents are currently “classified” or “national defense information” that restricts Trump’s handing of them. They are ALL his personal records and, frankly, should be returned to him. If justice prevails, this indictment won’t survive scrutiny by honest, constitutionalist judges and will be thrown out.
On a strictly emotional level, I hope he is right and William is wrong.
https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1667241826196004868
He’s not right because he is focused, incorrectly, on the documents themselves. That is not what is going to “get Trump.” The professor is correct (he pretty much always is, as you should know by now).
At least that’s my view. We will find out soon enough as this case moves forward. Just please be prepared for a conviction on obstruction and/or lying to the feds after he left office (and even a possible prison sentence, though that is unlikely).
Trump’s seeming lack of respect for the Office of president certainly complicates things. Apparently, he was waving classified documents at Kid freaking Rock. Not kidding. Watch. Seriously, Kid Rock. Who knew that he shouldn’t be able to see whatever Trump was showing him, but Trump apparently didn’t. At this point, it really looks like Trump was making mockery of our country and of his office. Gee, if I want to show some random rock star classified documents, I can . . . because I’m president. But no. No, he can’t. This is ungood.
Interesting notion of “respect” and “mockery.” not to mention the complete mischaracterization about Kid Rock. He did not say Trump waved anything, and it is pure speculation anything was classified.
I am reminded of the contractors Trump reportedly stiffed on Atlantic City casino construction – not because it was right but because he could get away with it. We shall see here.
I strongly agree with Fuzzy’s view that this dual view of justice is horrible for the country. Charging Trump is fine if you have evidence of wrongdoing, but IMO Hillary and the Biden family should have been charged long ago. Not doing so in visibly far worse circumstances causes people to totally discount the Trump charges, which is also not good. If Trump is actually guilty of some charges, he should not be a martyr and not be the Republican candidate, whether or not Hillary and the Biden family should have been charged.
Trump made the decision NOT to fulfill his campaign promise to prosecute Hillary. The heck with the rule of law, Trump wanted her to “heal.” On the one hand, he didn’t sink us into banana republic land as the corrupt Biden admin and its corrupt DOJ have, but on the other hand, for God’s sake, if anyone needs to be prosecuted, it’s her. Trump should have followed through . . . none of this would be happening if he had.
relevance?
None. Good time to get in shots.
?
Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.
The comments today remind me of a sports site where everyone is talking about upcoming game and who or why their team is going to win. It’s hot air. Until we see and hear the charges instead of just the initial indictment, we won’t know how serious they are. If it can be shown that he asked others to lie or conceal items, that is a serious charge. Like the old DC mantra, “The coverup is worse than the crime” may be the thing to worry about. There is no doubt that Trump is one of a kind, maybe a little like Andrew Jackson but not like any other pol in my lifetime. This may be his toughest hurdle yet.
Read the headline again. This is the problem with the out of control corrupt Deep State. They spent 7 yrs digging into someone’s every move to try and get something on him. That is not how it’s supposed to work.
Someone take a look at what Barky has laying around