Trump Indicted In Mar-a-Lago Case
Trump on Truth Social: “The corrupt Biden Administration has informed my attorneys that I have been Indicted… I have been summoned to appear at the Federal Courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, at 3 PM.”
Donald Trump has been indicted in federal court in Miami according to numerous reports.
From ABC News:
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted for a second time, this time on federal charges in relation to his handling of classified information while out of office, sources familiar confirm to ABC News.
He has been issued a summons to appear in federal court in Miami on Tuesday at 3 p.m. ET, sources said.
“We’re learning from our sources that there appears to be at least seven counts here. This ranges from everything from the willful retention of national defense information to conspiracy to a scheme to conceal to false statements and representations,” ABC News’ Katherine Faulders reported on during a special report on the network.
The indictment appears to have been announced by Trump himself on Truth Social rather than by the feds:
Page 1: The corrupt Biden Administration has informed my attorneys that I have been Indicted, seemingly over the Boxes Hoax, even though Joe Biden has 1850 Boxes at the University of Delaware, additional Boxes in Chinatown, D.C., with even more Boxes at the University of Pennsylvania, and documents strewn all over his garage floor where he parks his Corvette, and which is “secured” by only a garage door that is paper thin, and open much of the time.
Page 2: I have been summoned to appear at the Federal Courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, at 3 PM. I never thought it possible that such a thing could happen to a former President of the United States, who received far more votes than any sitting President in the History of our Country, and is currently leading, by far, all Candidates, both Democrat and Republican, in Polls of the 2024 Presidential Election. I AM AN INNOCENT MAN!
Page 3: This is indeed a DARK DAY for the United States of America. We are a Country in serious and rapid Decline, but together we will Make America Great Again!
Simultaneously with the posting on TruthSocial, the Trump campaign had a fundraising email sent out based on the indictment:
As of 8:20 p.m., I still haven’t been able to find a copy of the Indictment. The PACER electronic docket for the Southern District of Florida has crashed.
WATCH: President Trump responds to the corrupt scheme from Biden's politicized DOJ to interfere in the 2024 election. pic.twitter.com/oFXqM6YBvC
— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) June 9, 2023
Update 8:50 p.m.
It’s not even clear if the indictment has been unsealed. There are plenty of hot takes by people who have not seen the indictment. Here are some reactions. Keep in mind, none of these people have seen the indictment.
My Statement on the Unprecedented and Sham Indictment of President Donald Trump by Biden’s Department of Justice. pic.twitter.com/0abpRqrwen
— Elise Stefanik (@EliseStefanik) June 9, 2023
This outrageous indictment is nothing more than another swamp attempt to sideline President Trump on the day we read about Biden Family corruption and bribery.
Impeach Garland
— Matt Schlapp (@mschlapp) June 9, 2023
We can’t have two tiers of justice: one for Trump, another for Biden. One for Assange, another for Manning. One for BLM/Antifa, another for peaceful protesters on Jan 6.
I never thought we’d see the day when the U.S. President deputizes the DOJ to arrest his lead rival in the…
— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) June 9, 2023
The phony Boxes Hoax indictment is an attempt to distract the American public from the millions of dollars in bribes that the Biden Crime Family received from foreign nationals.
This scheme won't succeed. President Donald Trump will be back in the White House and Joe Biden will…
— Rep. Matt Gaetz (@RepMattGaetz) June 9, 2023
Reminder of what I wrote on March 24, 2023, Alvin Bragg Is Trump’s Legal Sideshow, The Main Ring Is The Mar-a-Lago Classified Documents Case:
The legal circus that will grow in the next year, however, does have a main ring. And that main ring is no joke. It’s the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Not so much that Trump had them, but whether he directed his lawyers to lie to the feds, obstructing justice. Unlike all the other legal drama, if proven, that’s a simple legal theory of criminal liability, unlike all the attenuated and legally-stretched theories in the other cases….
Keep an eye on the Mar-a-Lago documents case.
President Trump has been INDICTED in Special Counsel Probe.
Jonathan Turley tells us what we need to know #FoxNews pic.twitter.com/3l7Vq36oEo
— Jesse Watters (@JesseBWatters) June 9, 2023
In other news, a congressional committee says it has evidence our current president is a crook, but the news for the foreseeable future will revolve around the crook’s likely (not certain) political opponent:
Democrat sources are lying again.
The foreign national made it clear $5 million was intended for Joe Biden, but payments were not made directly to the “Big Guy.” Instead, the foreign national used bank accounts that would take investigators years to figure out.
This follows… https://t.co/Qjf7R70mZ8
— Oversight Committee (@GOPoversight) June 9, 2023
Sitting president indicts leading challenger. Totally normal. pic.twitter.com/vzioLzGlKc
— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) June 9, 2023
UPDATE 9:50 PM
We don’t get our news from Trump’s Truth Social account. Let’s see what the facts are when any possible indictment is released. As I have said before, no one is above the law, no matter how much they wish they were. We will have more to say when the facts are revealed.
— Chris Christie (@GovChristie) June 9, 2023
The weaponization of federal law enforcement represents a mortal threat to a free society.
We have for years witnessed an uneven application of the law depending upon political affiliation.
Why so zealous in pursuing Trump yet so passive about Hillary or Hunter?
The DeSantis…
— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) June 9, 2023
UPDATE 11 PM
Trump attorney Jim Trusty joins for his first interview since Trump was indicted. There is:
— An Espionage Act charge
— Several obstruction-based charges
— False statement charges
— Is there a conspiracy charge in here? “I believe so, I don't have it in front of me right now.” pic.twitter.com/8zOCynIygB— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) June 9, 2023
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Comments
This will be a 🤡💩 show. What a disgrace by the Democrats. God help us all, we will need it.
Looks like just another commie “show trial” brought to us by the democrat party as an attack on a political rival. This is a farce beyond words to describe. It is a deliberate attempt by one political party to totally destroy the justice system in America while making it a handy weapon to use in conducting politics. If James Madison and Co are where they can look down and see all of this happening in the wonderful nation they built, they must be wondering if enough Americans today have the guts to stand up and fight this tyranny from Washington, DC or are we just going to get on our knees and kiss their jack boots?
If we are going to save America we are not going to get it done with lawyers and courts, as the left controls many of them, but rather are going to have to use the tactics that destroyed communism in eastern Europe in the late 1980’s.
Did you read the article?
The trial will be in Miami not D.C.
This is designed to give Biden a second term by helping Trump secure the nomination.
It’s all politics, Danny. That’s the stuff! The country is coming apart at the seams, but your TDS fix is all that matters. Keep cucking for your D palz. I’m sure they’ll eat you last, loser.
Is the DoJ not a clown show in Miami, Danny? I know you’re a simpleton, but it’s not hard to understand that every US attorney reports to the corrupt AG.
IDK. I was already going to vote for someone else in the Primaries and this doesn’t change my opinion of Trump one way or the other. I don’t think this nonsense will change anyone who will be voting in the Primary into a different voter if they were going to vote for Trump anyways much less the actual election. I think that outside of the most rabid anti-Trump people like the hags at The View everyone see’s this for what it is. Polls seem to indicate this so far.
anyway
Yeah, right. If you think that fascist pedophile or any of his gestapo are interested in straight justice, I’ve got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Sadly I agree- my first thought was that “Those SunzaBeechas are literally FORCING me to vote for Trump.
But then I realized that, given the current state of things (including the corruption in the way elections are run (search any major city name and ‘election fraud’) and the symphony of accusations against Trump over the years now- Trump is simply unelectable in the main election.
The Democratic plan is to swamp the primaries with Trump votes, and thus make him the Republican Candidate in the main… where the number of Republican votes for him will not be enough to overcome the Democratic, Independent, and Ghost vote.
It’s a trap worthy of a Banana Republic with a corrupt dictator at the helm.
That was the Dems strategy in 2016 as well. They wanted Hilary v. Trump. When that strategy backfired, they lost their collective minds. 7 years on, nothing has changed.
So isn’t that thing on Atlanta. Your point?
Doesn’t matter a bit where the trial is held. The roots of the democrat party’s corruption in America are deep in that cesspool that is called Washington, DC. That place is hopelessly corrupted from root to crown. I live 1200 miles away from that sordid evil place but can smell it’s stench from my house. The lord works in mysterious ways at times but I believe retribution is coming for this evil cabal.
The game is over. This is a declaration of war against the Constitution.
The game has been over for a long time, but people keep playing.
Ouch.
Republicans in Congress need to act ASAP. Impeachments and defunding of special counsel at a minimum. What are they doing? Making angry tweets?
The term “Trumped up charges” has taken on a whole new meaning.
The former United States of America is now officially a third-world country.
Amazing how in your face this Administration has become with using the DOJ as a weapon against anyone standing in it’s far left way.
IMO the decision to proceed with an indictment is going to backfire. This makes Trump into something of a martyr. This is a transparently politically motivated prosecution over an issue of docs that could have been better resolved without involving the DoJ. Cooler heads didn’t prevail anywhere along the way and here we are. This didn’t have to happen, just b/c you have the power to do a thing doesn’t mean you must do that thing.
IMO this is not going to backfire on the Democrats. They want Trump as the candidate, not a dynamic younger person who makes a striking contrast with their demented old fool.
I bet if you took a national survey and asked, “Knowing nothing else, would you prefer an 80 year old or a 45 year old as an important leader?” the younger person would be much preferred. That is a big handicap.
Thank you for reminding us that DeSantis is the real victim here.
“They want Trump as the candidate, not a dynamic younger person who makes a striking contrast with their demented old fool.”
What? Trump provides a striking contrast with the “demented old fool.”
There is no way DeSantis can win a general election because he is too anti-abortion to have any chance of winning MI, WI, PA, GA, AZ, or VA – regardless of the economy, the war, or any or all other issues combined. The Democrats are not worried about DeSantis because he isn’t a real threat. Trump is their only 2024 concern.
that’s a stupid question – in the same vein as “a woman” or “someone black”.
You mean like the Alvin Bragg indictment?
This indictment in a nutshell is
“You say you declassified these when in office; you have no proof you did and we say you did not declassify them in office”.
In other words the DOJ has a vastly superior case to Alvin Bragg.
The public backed and still backs Alvin Bragg over Donald Trump.
This will help Trump with the nomination but he will remain unelectable in the general election.
Guilty until proven innocent, huh?
Remember when Trump was impeached because you sorry Leftists and NeverTrumpers said he was investigating his primary opponent Joe Biden? Square the circle how this is different and why Biden shouldn’t be impeached.
They have proof the documents were classified. Trump has no proof they weren’t. They could prove Trump took them.
They are claiming Trump took classified documents, and that they were never declassified.
Do you have any idea how easy it is to either tell one other person, or type out on a laptop “these documents at my house are now declassified”.
They could prove he had classified documents in his house. That is what he is being charged with.
He is contesting that by claiming he declassified them. He has no evidence he did so.
That is why this isn’t the Alvin Bragg case, it is a serious one.
For square the circle?
I have never claimed that the impeachment of Trump was in any way justified, fought hard defending Trump in a University during it, and if because I am not your liar pretending this is another Alvin Bragg situation means I am saddled with positions that aren’t mine I am telling you the same thing you would tell me in the same situation which is FU.
I know this is hard for you to wrap your brain around but if Trump claimed he declassified the documents, it’s up to the DOJ to prove he did not. Unless they have Trump on record stating he didn’t really declassify them, the default position is those docs were declassified, period. Keep in mind, there’s no set procedure for a President to declassify material. They can do it in any way they choose. Congress and the courts can’t interfere and demand specific methods because of the separation of powers. Trump doesn’t have to prove a single thing, according to the classification powers. It’s entirely up to the DOJ and they and the democrats are lying their asses off.
@sanddog
No the jury gets to decide if the claim by Trump that he declassified those documents is credible.
The claim that a president could declassify by thought is untrue,
ALL orders by ALL people with authority HAVE TO be issued.
There is no such thing as an order that is never spoken, written, or typed out.
The DOJ has the classification status, they have the fact that such status was never changed.
To claim “I changed it but never told anybody”.
You would not accept that from anyone else.
What it takes for a president to declassify is to issue the order.
The DOJ could claim he never issued such an order by pointing out literally nobody remembers such an order, and there is no written or other evidence such an order ever happened.
That is very strong evidence declassification never happened.
I don’t support this prosecution, I do think it is selective enforcement of the law.
However the law does exist and there actually is precedent that others getting away with the same crime is not a defense.
They also have the proof that Trump was deluded into thinking he would remain president. Why would he need to declassify if Pence had authority to overturn the election?
Dude, stop being stupid. You know that prior presidents were able to do this with no issue. You know prior VPs who had no business did this. You know that aides of the president had classified docs. Not one has been treated this way. Don’t come at me with this nonsense they have proof. In a sane world where Leftists hadn’t gotten power no one would have been bothered by this. But we have dumb Americans like you who think it is okay to justify this abhorrent behavior.
I asked you to square the circle and I want you to square it and not give me your bullshit. Trump was impeached over the notion he was investigating his opponent over his Ukrainian dealings. Why shouldn’t Biden have the same done to him for doing the exact same thing but to a worse degree?
Please show where it was illegal for Trump to be in possession of those documents even if they were classified.
Pop used to tell the story about authoring a document for the Minuteman missile program in 1960 (+/-). He was new with the company and didn’t yet have his secret clearance. As soon as the document was complete, the release group slapped a SECRET classification on it and confiscated all copies, and dad was prohibited from seeing or working on it again.
Funny thing – Dad has a great memory.
SO WHAT IF TRUMP HAD CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. Confiscating them will NEVER erase them from his head and everyone else who saw them.
This whole issue is so damn stupid – sadly – so are the people who are lapping this up like Trump is Benedict Arnold. It’s political theater. Nothing more.
So indictment of Biden for having classified documents scattered all over the country and given to his son to make deals is coming any day now right Danny…,
@Chris
Prior presidents have NOT done what Trump did in this case. You could argue this is not a major crime (and it isn’t) but you can’t argue earlier presidents did it because they didn’t (unless you count Biden as VP). Even if you count Biden and Pence as VP as them being president (neither had that role at the time) they cooperated when the DOJ demanded they return the documents in question and returned them (which is actually the normal procedure, Hillary refusing to do so was highly unusual).return to this planet you idiot. I just proved the claim against Clinton, and the claim that a court allowed Clinton to do this is a lie by LINKING THE GOD DAMNED CASE. I also quoted direct from it. It involved nothing classified, and within the case itself you found that the whole thing was thrown out for lack of standing. I do not support prosecuting Trump for this because it is selective, others like Hillary Clinton did not get prosecuted. However that will not help Trump in a court room, and claiming the declassification by thought is well nobody will agree with it.
Obama, Clinton, and the both Bush never actually took classified information with them. If they had they would have had the common sense to write or just communicate with someone that they have declassified the documents to prevent exactly this from happening.
All Trump had to do was declassify it (and yes in the case I had to bring up to refute the idea Clinton did the same thing and got different treatment the judge mentions that Clinton communicated what was and wasn’t presidential records while he was president which does refute the idea the former president could retroactively do things)
Now about you wanting me to defend impeachment
1. I did not support the Trump impeachment it made me angry
2. Covid showed up to save the Democrats from major backlash against themselves when Trump was acquited.
3. Democrats control the senate
4. The public did not support the Democrats theory when it was used on Trump they will not support it on Biden either
5. There is nothing illegal about enforcement of laws related to classified material
6. The precedent set with the Trump impeachment is acquittal
Now if you want to impeach Biden for the influence peddling he and his son have been doing….or examples of him actually breaking the law that could be different (although will still likely blow up in our sides face which is why nobody in congress is considering doing it).
If you want to impeach him on grounds that like all politicians he changes his principles, and that the logic of the Trump impeachment should preclude a Trump investigation…….brilliant move if you are a Democrat and want the house back.
Why if you want to see Biden impeached are you not talking about things he has done that are against the law? There are (in an ideal world in practice it would likely be counter productive) great reasons to impeach Biden. The classified documents case is not one of them.
@JraeL
“(a)Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to RETAIN SUCH DOCUMENTS OR MATERIALS AT AN UNAUTHORIZED LOCATION shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.”
The wording is clear. Once Trump was former president Trump he no longer had the authority to keep the documents if classified.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924
@MrE
I do not defend the way the law is written today but it is in fact still what the law is.
I also do not support the prosecution but pretending this is another Alvin Bragg would be crazy because unlike Alvin Bragg the DOJ this time actually has a case.
So what are Joe Bidens and Mike Pences excuse? Neither has ever been president, and BIDEN had classified information since 1984. HE should be indicted first if this was a real world problem, but we ALL know this was set to GET TRUMP. THAT is all you idiots have. You are real losers. YOU deserve Joe Biden.
“They could prove he had classified documents in his house. That is what he is being charged with.”
Danny if you haven’t read the indictment how do you know what Big Don has been indicted for? Until the indictment is published, I’ll stick with a guess, no more, that Big Don is being indicted under 18 USC 793 (d) and (e). Neither of those subsections even mention classification, but if you violate them, bring on the indictment, Here’s a link to these subsections:
https://www.law.cornell.Edu/uscode/text/18/793
Danny.
There really are different rules for Presidents. That is because of Separation of Powers. He controls all classified information and documents when he is President, and has full plenary authority to do with it what he wants. What you are suggesting is essentially veto by his underlings, based on their usage (and likely mis usage) under statutes enacted by Congress. If he orders documents declassified, and those underlings never get around to it, are they declassified? That is highly likely here, with the binder of documents formally ordered declassified his last day in office, and likely the target of the MAL raid, have apparently still not been formally declassified over two years later.
Any documents marked as classified seized from Trump were either formally ordered declassified, and weren’t., or were scooped up by GSA, and effectively declassified by being ordered by the President to be sent to MAL.
The sitting President is the Chief Executive and Commander in Chief of this country. Forcing him to abide by classified document declassification procedures would unduly, and unconstitutionally tie his hands in the execution of his duties. For example, one President decided, on the spot, to publicly provide the Soviet/Russian leader some previously highly classified documents and information. No lengthy reviews and redactions by government officials. Done deal.
Danny, you are apparently unaware that a court has ruled (in a previous case) that classified documents in possession of an FPOTUS are “presumptively declassified” (the court’s words). This isn’t reviewable by a jury. It’s an established precedent in US law..
“There is no such thing as an order that is never spoken, written, or typed out.”
Yes, there is.
If, in the course of a conversation, a president decides that he needs to use classified information he does not have to pause and announce that he’s declassifying something, he can, simply by uttering it, declassify information..
The people behind this nonsense, your masters, know this–which is why they’re trying to use a section of law that does not specifically mention classified information and instead refers to information vital to the security of the US.
These people, being as ignorant of how the US works as you appear to be, don’t seem to grasp that it is the CinC who decides what is vital to the security of the US, not national archivists.
Kinda funny how the Muh Principles crowd suddenly have none when it comes to Trump, right?
Kinda funny how the muh principles crowd suddenly have none when it comes to Biden, right?
So care to tell me what the result of impeaching Trump was?
The only Republican I recall voting to convict was Mitt Romney.
You seem to have forgotten that the burden of proof lies with the prosecution at all times.
“We say you did not declassify them in office”, words you attribute to the prosecution, count for absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, you state that Trump has no “proof” that he declassified them: His word is evidence of that fact, and since he can with or without supporting documentation declassify any document by his sole authority, the prosecution will be hard pressed to deny that he did so.
But, though malicious the feds are not stupid, so I have to think that they will charge him with something that they can at least have a shot of proving in addition to those charges.
They have the files to prove those documents are classified.
Thought is not enough to count as a presidential order it must be either spoken or in writing, and must be known by at least one other person.
What they have to prove is the documents classification status, Trump claiming he declassified them…..again any order must be spoken or in writing. Applies to every position of authority including president of the United States.
You’re incorrect. There is NO procedure for a president declassifying information. The President is granted this authority by the Constitution, and the Constitution doesn’t stipulate any methods. Rules regarding classification are for the people the President gives the authority to work with those classified materials. If President A handles personal declassification in a specific manner, that’s nice but it’s not law and President B, C, D and E are not required to follow in their footsteps.
LOL …hey have the files to prove those documents are classified.
Are you paid to say stuff like this? Really? We don’t know what they have and their history is to make stuff up. But…but….but….they would not make things up wound they?
@ Sanddog
@Sanddog
Who the hell told you that the president could declassify by thought without ever telling anybody else?
If you have not told somebody something THERE IS NO ORDER.
There is no procedure for how the president has to declassify something, but YES YOU HAVE TO INFORM SOMEONE ELSE SOMEHOW.
You have a singular stupidest thing ever written award.
Did you even read the post you claim to be refuting?
If an executive order is only issued in the presidents head it has never been done.
The Constitution nowhere states we have to interpret the president by mind reading and it gives no authority to a former president. If you have not issued an order in some form, or informed someone else it is declassified it is still classsified.
I am sorry but your post is stupid in a league all by itself, and if you got a million judges to decide if the president could declassify by thought you would get 1 million answers of no.
If you are not here to engage fuck you Mark Smith.
So you are claiming they don’t have the documentation that the files in question were classified?
Great show the judge handling the case the judge will dismiss it in a second (hint hint judges have already gone over the evidence in this case).
They have the files to prove Biden had classified documents that were filtered to his son to be used in deal making but oh wait that’s
D ifferent huh lefty
@caseoftheblues
I agree on Biden (and he is setting precedent for us to go after him if he loses and is still sentient when leaving the White House).
However the selective enforcement defense doesn’t work if there is a reason to treat the two cases differently.
In the case of VP at the time Biden’s handling of classified documents….well Biden is actually returning it when requested.
In the case of Trump he refused.
The actual norm is not to prosecute when they return the documents without a fight.
However for examples of them prosecuting the person who they found with the documents
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Berger
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2015/07/30/navy-engineer-sentenced-for-mishandling-classified-material/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_T._Martin
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-defense-contractor-sentenced-unlawfully-retaining-classified-information
As you could see if you force them to come get the documents the general result is prosecution.
There is pretty good reason Professor Jacobson did not place this on the same level as Alvin Bragg.
Obama revealed highly classified information to Bob Woodward, who was researching a book. Obama had taken no documented steps to declassify the information.
However, the information immediately became declassified because the president has ultimate declassification authority. By revealing it, the president made clear his “intention” to declassify it.
Trump should receive the same accommodation. By removing the information, Trump made clear his intention to declassify it. End of story.
“What they have to prove is the documents classification status, Trump claiming he declassified them…..again any order must be spoken or in writing. ”
What statute are you citing? The Atomic Energy Act, which goes into declassification in some detail.
No, they have proof that AT ONE TIME the documents were classified. Presidents DO NOT have a procedure they must follow to declassify a document, they can do so by simple acclamation. Trump claims he did so and he certainly had the power to do so at the time he said he did so.
Danny “D”santos rides again
Maybe in mrs “D” Santis coat
Is that real leather Danny?
@Ironclaw
If a document is classified, and nobody ever issues the order to declassify it, and it is not time sensitive so time doesn’t auto-declassify it it will remain classified.
For it not to be classified an order has to be issued.
There are no witnesses Trump ever issued the order, and neither is there anything digital or in writing to establish such an order ever happened.
The state is able to prove those are classified documents because nothing was ever done to declassify them, and they can’t be retroactively declassified by someone because he used to have authority to do so.
You and others seem to be adopting the bizarre claim Trump made on Hannity that “all it takes is the thought and it is declassified”.
Proving no order was ever issued to declassify the documents, and establishing Trump thought he would still be president the next year does actually provide the prosecution a very strong case and it will be very tough for Trump to win despite being in a friendly area.
The bar of telling one other person at the time, or writing it down and delivering the written instruction it is declassified is not a high bar, and no we do not govern by mind reading.
Danny, you are absolutely wrong. A president, by his actions, declassifies documents. Merely removing classified docs from a secure location creates the legal presumption he considers them declassified, because it can’t be presumed that a POTUS/FPOTUS committed a crime when he has unreviewable authority to declassify. And, get this through your thick skull, a POTUS is not required to follow any process or procedure to declassify documents.
@ Danny
If you are not here to engage fuck you Mark Smith.
So you are claiming they don’t have the documentation that the files in question were classified?
Great show the judge handling the case the judge will dismiss it in a second (hint hint judges have already gone over the evidence in this case).
Another cat lover who talks to him self to think he is important.
This case goes against the 4th, 5th and 6th Amend. When the judge has not seen the documents and the def. can’t see the documents it is total BS.
The DOJ has a record of making up BS to get Trump. This is not a sterile environment where the rule of law is pure. The FISA court is a great example.
The DOJ has already predicated the baseline of their claim by saying they cannot tell anyone, even the court, what the nature of the documents are that underpin their assertion. Remember, they wouldn’t even let a court appointed “special master” review the documents.
Clean up your language and have an actual dialog instead of talking to yourself.
It the system abuses are not stopped, it will not matter what they do to Trump.
I suggest you take a history lesson in reading Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn.
Maybe then you will have the ability to engage.
“THERE IS NO ORDER.”
Exactly.
The president doesn’t declassify via order–executive or otherwise. Such is simply one of his enumerated powers.
Are you from some country that forbids you to read up on American civics?
It’s not going to help them with the nomination. The Grand Jury was in southern Florida and there is no doubt that there were Trump voters on it. This is much more serious than the Bragg case and it will not help him get Independents if he were the nominee. I am so done with him
I 100% agree it won’t help him with the general, and I have fully noted (and frankly agree) that the location makes the idea that it is a kangaroo court laughable.
I do hope you are right about the nomination. However I am somewhat pessimistic about this whole thing, in no small part because a lot of Trump supporters have been willing to adopt the line that Andrew Cuomo was great during Covid.
It is only a small step from there to pretending Florida is a blue stronghold.
Go knock on some doors. Maybe somebody will care what you think.
Trump signed a document while still President that declassified absolutely everything related to Operation Crossfire.
That order is still publicly available in Trump’s section of Whitehouse dot gov
The FBI dragged their feet on the request to deliver those documents, and did so only days before Trump left office – without having removed any of the “classified” tags on the documents.
These are the documents that were delivered to Mar a Lago that he’s now being indicted over.
The “classified” markings are not relevant, what is relevant is the order from Trump, as POTUS, declaring them declassified.
At issue is judges have already gone over the claim that it was all Crossfire Hurricane and determined it wasn’t.
If it was all crossfire hurricane than Trump has a 100% chance of acquittal, actually it is likely to be thrown out with prejudice with the jury never even getting to see testimony.
The problem is judges who have heard the claim it was all Crossfire Hurricane appear to have been shown proof it wasn’t. That is a big indication that Trump was being an idiot with the documents.
Any order has to be known by at least one other person, goes for any position of authority.
Prosecutors also have a problem with the federal court’s recent decision on the classified documents that Clinton took with him when he left office, which were found in his sock draw.
Clinton never declassified any of it, and never claimed to.
The court ruled in favor of Clinton, saying that as POTUS he had sole authority to determine what were his personal papers and what was a public record that the national archive would have.
The National Archives, whose claim initiated the raid on Mar a Lago, have no authority at all that does not stem from the President’s. And, there is no formal process for this – the POTUS can simply decide on his own when leaving office, what to take home and what to give to the archive.
@Aarradin
Not everything on the internet is true you are misquoting the case based on a secondary source.
Don’t believe me here it is (you will note the 2012 date for it) https://casetext.com/case/judicial-watch-inc-v-natl-archives-records-admin
1. Bill Clinton actually did comply with demands for classified documents which is very significant because that is not an apples to apples comparison.
2. Case was not about an item that was classified but a series of interviews Clinton did with a woman who used those interviews as a basis for the book “The Clinton Tapes” and was about if such interviews during the presidency in the White House that the then former president permitted to be used as a basis for factual claims becomes documents needed by the National Archives or merely personal papers the president could keep for himself. That they may by some be considered presidential records is that basis for the National Archives to then take custody of them?
3. Clinton publicly declared those tapes to be personal papers. That is significant because he had filled everything declaring what was what.
4. The case in no way helps Trump. There wasn’t any classified information in it. Your claim of always believe the former president isn’t there either here is what Judicial Review received as the conclusion
“Thus, because the Court is unable to provide the remedy plaintiff seeks by ordering that defendant “assume custody and control” over the audiotapes, the Court is unable to redress plaintiff’s claim. Accordingly, the Court will grant defendant’s motion to dismiss [Dkt. # 6] under Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(1) for lack of standing. A separate order will issue.”
The court also did not determine the president had sole authority to determine what is presidential records (therefore subject to being required for the National Archives) and what isn’t her is from the very case you misquoted
“As another court in this district has observed, “[t]he PRA incorporates an assumption made by Congress (in 1978) that subsequent Presidents and Vice Presidents would comply with the Act in good faith, and therefore Congress limited the scope of judicial review and provided little oversight authority for the President and Vice President’s document preservation decisions.” CREW v. Cheney, 593 F.Supp.2d 194, 198 (D.D.C.2009). Indeed, the PRA permits the President to dispose of any Presidential records that “no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value” after notifying the Archivist of the United States and designated members of Congress of the proposed disposal. 44 U.S.C. § 2203(c), (d).”
Note that she said PRESIDENT not former president, and that you have to INFORM the Archivist (as in actually put it in either writing or word spoken).
By saying recent you make it seem recent not over ten years ago, and the ten year old case is in no way similar to this one, it’s verdict isn’t what you thought it was, and there is nothing in the decision that helps the case that the former president is unconditionally believed.
It doesn’t even decide on the merits of claiming the Clinton Tapes are presidential records it merely determined Judicial Watch had no standing,
To follow up the down vote if anyone thinks the case of Clinton publicly classifying his taped interviews as personal instead of presidential records is relevant to the case read this part of the decision
“1. The Court Cannot Compel the Archivist To Reclassify or Retrieve the Audiotapes Because the PRA Does Not Mandate It.
Plaintiff’s entire APA claim is predicated on the notion that the Archivist of the United States has a statutory duty to make his own classification decision and “to assume custody and control” of all Presidential records. There are a number of flaws with this argument. To begin with, the plain language of section 2203(f) of the PRA does not say what plaintiff claims it does—that the Archivist must assume custody and control of all materials that fall within the definition of Presidential records. Tr. at 29:23–30:2. Rather, it states: “the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President.” 44 U.S.C. § 2203(f)(1) (emphasis added).
The Court construes this language as requiring the Archivist to take responsibility for records that were designated as Presidential records during the President’s term. Even plaintiff tentatively agreed that the obligation to assume custody and control arises after a determination has been made that the documents are Presidential records. Tr. at 30:3–6. If certain records are not designated as Presidential records, the Archivist has no statutory obligation to take any action at all, and there is nothing to compel under the APA.”
In other words Clinton classified it as personal originally, it was not only not classified, it was never considered presidential records, and even presidential records could in some cases be permitted to be taken by the president.
Now do Biden and his rolling dumpster fire of classified documents scattered around….,that there isn’t even ANY legal argument he had ANY right to have in his possession
Danny, please stop pulling legal requirements out of your ass. Everyone in the federal government who exercises authority to classify and declassify documents is exercising authority delegated from (ultimately) the POTUS. POTUS has the original authority to classify and declassify documents. This is why there are no rules for him – he makes the rules/the rules are what the POTUS declares. Everyone in his chain of command exercising authority delegated from the POTUS must follow the rules. POTUS can do as he pleases. You may not like that, but no entity of the government, not even Congress, can change that. (Congress can’t because they’d be interfering with the authority of the executive branch, a violation of the separation of powers. This is why there is no such law applicable to the POTUS. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post the citations.)
@Dave
Stop being a brainless twit.
If you for a second think declassification only requires a thought your an idiot.
EVERY order requires some form of communication goes for every god damned job and every god damned order.
Here lets try colonel at a court martial for not ordering information be passed up the chain of command as he was obligated to do
“Yes I issued the order, I just never told anyone, didn’t put it in writing and have no proof I ever said anything about it”-Chance of non-conviction zero
Or how about a firefighter chief
“Why didn’t you order anyone to the fire”
“I did I just didn’t say anything, write an order, or text an order or send any emails”
Trump did not declassify, declassification is an order issued and if nobody was told anything the order was not issued.
By the way a former president does not have the rights of a serving president.
It is not legalize, if you do not say anything, or communicate to a subordinate no order has been given, goes for literally every profession.
I am sorry you hate that I debunked the lies about Clinton and the lie that the 2012 case has anything at all to do with the Trump case.
Former presidents can’t retroactively declassify, and as president he didn’t declassify. Doing so requires communication. There is no such thing as telepathy in real life.
I wouldn’t be too sure about counting Trump out. The last time the d/prog, the media and the rest of the elite gang decided to do things that helped boost Trump’s campaign in the primary b/c they thought he was an easy target in the general he won v the ‘inevitable’ HRC.
If you have proof that formerly blue states not called Nevada (which tragically is not large enough, and frankly was never that blue to start with) are changing before our eyes I am more than open to persuasion to be optimistic.
The problem is what I could see in the midwest is a set of states that have a personal hatred for Trump as the norm for their residents, and no movement of once blue states to red and purple to make up for it. Even Maine which has a large percentage white working class voters hasn’t budged.
Add Pennsylvania, which last Fall preferred a disabled stroke patient over Trump’s pick. IMO the only way Trump wins over Biden is a “Black Swan” event – Biden literally becomes a basket case in 18 months or there is some major economic problem here or international disaster, in Ukraine or Taiwan. (Taiwan is actually a double threat.)
@jb4
That is unfortunately true.
Trump’s legal troubles are tragic (although as I have pointed out this is most definitely not a repeat of Alvin Bragg who really has no case at all) but they are not a good reason to follow the bait being laid by the administration. 2022 is not very long ago.
Danny,
It’s a long way to the ’24 general election. A great many things can happen between now and then, some expected, some anticipated and some out of the blue. The swing States are a challenge. On the other hand a town in PA got a toxic spill while AZ is overrun with illegals. MN is calling apart under their woke Gov. The woke regs and mandates for gas stove, EV and coming brown outs this summer due to unreliable solar wind electric generation will be felt. As will the recession being sparked by higher interest rates; usually begins 9-12 months after the Fed raises rates.
I try to be optimistic by nature but within a framework of realism. That is I try to analyze the best case, worse case and probable case scenario within the set of facts and circumstances present and work to get the best case scenario over the hump. This helps me avoid both overly optimistic happy crappy as well as overly pessimistic doom and gloom.
Reportedly, even the FBI was not on board with the raid on Mar-A-Lago and advised against it. When that corrupt 3 letter agency is having reservations you have to wonder
It was, IMO, a stupidly vindictive display of raw political power and force that has altered the expected norms going forward. Payback is always a bitch and there will be payback at some point and the d/prog and their media allies will howl when the day comes.
We do know that the Counterintelligence Division (CD) of the FBI was involved in the MAL raid. They had to have been, because they are the ones cleared to see the purportedly classified documents. And coincidentally, the documents that the FBI knew that Trump had, that were still marked classified (and apparently have not yet been formally declassified, over two years later) were the ones that implicated that very same CD in their RussiaGate malfeasance and crimes. They were in a binder that Trump formally ordered declassified his last full day in office. And for Danny, that order was not just verbal, it was on paper, signed by Trump, with photos of him signing the order. Note the wording of the search warrant – they were searching for documents with classified markings, which those documents still had. That doesn’t mean that they were still classified. Trump’s order precludes that. It just means that the FBI could be guaranteed to find documents marked classified.
@Diver64 – I think it likely that there were plenty of FBI agents who probably thought the raid was a very bad thing. It was. It has very likely permanently tarnished the agency’s reputation. They have worked with the Dems over the last two Presidential elections, and this is aimed at affecting a third one. I have been convinced from the first that the raid was driven and orchestrated by the corrupt CD, and here it was, I think, driven by their desire to reclaim that incriminating evidence, and to harm Trump, as they have been trying to do for 7 years now.
I think, driven by their desire to reclaim that incriminating evidence, and to harm Trump, as they have been trying to do for 7 years now.
I think, driven by their desire to reclaim that incriminating evidence Exactly!
It is a hellva lot bigger than Trump. It goes back to the Iran Contra and Clinton and the Intel special ops. With Covid, the level they will stoop to and how far they will go is unlimited.
It begins. You know and I know that there is neither law nor integrity in the Federal criminal justice system in matters affecting those in power. Over the next few months expect to see the Coercive Forces of State Power find ways to remove any real possible opposition candidates. And they will have the GOPe working alongside them to make sure it happens. In fact, I expect them [the GOPe] to support someone like Mike Pence as their inserted candidate to make sure that no one votes against those in power now.
Everybody set your watches. I think it is just before December 1773.
Subotai Bahadur
With you there on that last sentence. These evil fools are going to keep doing more and more of this, as it seems to work for them, until they eventually bring a terrible retribution down upon their heads. I only have one wish, I hope I live long enough to see that happen.
Thank you… Anyone not out screaming and yelling about this, fighting tooth and nail is supporting banana republic time.
“we must all hang together or most assuredly we will all hang separately”
What a ***MAGICAL*** coincidence that Trump gets indicted on the same day the Biden money laundering documents get released to members of congress.
Tyranny has arrived in America. Thank you Obama. Turning the government into a weapon against the people. And now have a leader that covers his own crimes by prosecuting his adversary. Not to mention the election interference since 2016! Trump had the goods on them. They cannot stand for that. It’s Trump that scares them, no one else. For those so gung ho for the fight, this IS the fight. It’s sad these anti-Americans were able to dupe so many to believe they are democrats. Now, their intentions could not be more clear. They have made American exceptionalism Orwellian. Hoping it will backfire, but many dupes will be convinced by the tyrannical forces. It’s hard to stay optimistic in the face of the damage, but in the face of it all, Trump does not give up and no one should.
Interesting program on a woman that was in the forefront of decoding encrypted transmissions. She and her team were reading Nazi transmissions from South America and helping prevent U-Boat attacks on Allied shipping. All of a sudden, the Nazi spies are picked and and their cover blown…which resulted in loss of monitoring the Nazis. The arrests had come about by her reports to the Federal officials and one Fed ran with it… ordered the arrests and wrote a book on how the FBI broke the ring as led by J. Edgar Hoover. All a lie…. so …what…is.,..new. Comey is right…. Trump will attempt to break the back of the corrupt Deep State. They will anything… ANYTHING… to stop this. As for Biden and Pence…. a big pass.
On this day of great import and histrorical significance to the Republic itself, Interesting to see that partisan politics is what matters to some.
Now do Biden and his rolling dumpster fire of classified documents scattered around….,that there isn’t even ANY legal argument he had ANY right to have in his possession Danny boy
As predictable as a rooster crowing at sunrise. The vile Dumb-o-crats have been engaged in lawless dirty tricks sabotage antics against then-candidate, and later, President, Trump, since year 2015. Nothing — certainly not facts, law or fairness — will keep them from fulfilling their fanatical quest.
Meanwhile, the FBI and IRS have been protecting every prominent Dumb-o-crats who has engaged in brazen corruption, self-enrichment and foreign influence-peddling (e.g., crone Clinton; dotard-marionette, Biden, et al.) for decades.
3-D print guillotines.
Assemble in time square
Mandatory coverage all channels and internet streaming
Execute all involved
polish your front sights
Will no one rid us of these turbulent leftist goons?
Once the phony birth certificate was given a pass, all that followed became inevitable. That operation was so successful that mentioning in any forum now makes eyes roll.
Trump has at least one good thing going for him. Justice in the YS is for those who can afford it. Trump’s wealth lets him pick whatever oak-paneled 90th floor law firm he wants.
Wrong
Because of who he is the vast vast majority refuse to represent President Trump
Don’t want to to be tainted, lose work and parties by association
All cowards
Dershowitz says you have a right to resist the government – obstruction is a constitutional right, just not criminal obstruction, a line which is not defined.
5th and 6th amendments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9SyzfbTQxg
Obstructing for the purposes of retaining docs that a) don’t belong to Trump and b) were national defence docs is straightforwardly criminal. It should be noted that probable cause for a crime has already been determines by a judge to pierce client attorney privilege.
That’s the stamping of foot defense. Then there’s the other side.
That’s the law 🤷♂️ we already know that many avenues of defence for Trump have already been dealt with evidentially. It’s not clear to me on what basis he can defend himself legally.
From https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/08/trump-says-hes-been-indicted-summoned-to-federal-court-in-miami-next-week.html
“NBC News soon after [Trump disclosed that he was indicted] confirmed the indictment, which is the second time in recent months that Trump has been criminally charged.”
In any event, Christie exposed himself again as a cheap shot artist. DeSantis demonstrated, again, that he is a class act.
I love the part where they make excuses for Biden’s possession of Classified Docs which is the mantra now on the left. Giving them back is not an excuse for the crime of taking them and having them in your possession in the first place. If I robbed a bank then when found said “My Bad” and gave the money back would that release me from criminal liability?
Exactly. The Dumbs’ moral standard is as morally contemptible, shallow and logically unavailing as the rest of their perennially contortionist, selective, malleable and hypocritical ethics and legal theories/jurisprudence.
No he didn’t. Vivek did.
No, he isn’t, Bender. Anyone who opposes the uni-party in D.C. is in this with him, now and in the future. He won’t be the last one corruptly indicted because of his politics. Take a good fucking look at the comments above by Jim53IQ, Igna, Mutantman, Readering, Leftbank above- those are the opinions of the political class running the country and its justice system. They don’t even believe themselves Trump was indicted justly- they are delighted that he is being lynched, and when you or yours are up against the wall, they will still be delighted knowing that you couldn’t even be bothered to be outraged tonight.
This is the comment I wanted to make…the other was for another blog.
Vivek Ramaswamy
@VivekGRamaswamy
We can’t have two tiers of justice: one for Trump, another for Biden. One for Assange, another for Manning. One for BLM/Antifa, another for peaceful protesters on Jan 6.
I never thought we’d see the day when the U.S. President deputizes the DOJ to arrest his lead rival in the middle of an election. Obama shamefully tried to deputize the FBI to infiltrate Trump’s 2016 campaign, but they’re leaving nothing to chance this time around: the federal police state is outright arresting Trump.
This is an affront to every citizen: we cannot devolve into a banana republic where the party in power uses police force to arrest its political opponents. It’s hypocritical for the DOJ to selectively prosecute Trump but not Biden.
There are also serious legal questions about the President’s power to declassify documents and the potential illegality of the over-classification of federal documents in the first place. That’s for the courts to decide, but we the people decide who governs this nation.
It would be much easier for me to win this election if Trump weren’t in the race, but I stand for principles over politics. I commit to pardon Trump promptly on January 20, 2025 and to restore the rule of law in our country.
8:08 PM · Jun 8, 2023
“D”santis showed he is well handled
Biden’s DOJ is a criminal enterprise. Am I wrong in understanding that Trump is being charged at least in part under U.S. Code 793 on the premise he mishandled classified(?) documents?
I may be off track but “mishandled” if not directly defined in the law should at least have a point of reference that relates directly to the intent of the law overall. Not just whatever DOJ pulls out of their butts. The section which I believe tells us just what the law intends in regards to whether documents were mishandled is this
“(a) Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation,”
We see the same again in this subsection,
(d) “Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation”
It is my opinion that the important gist of mishandling is this “… the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation.” How the documents are stored or moved or discussed certainly do not rise to the claim they are mishandled. Not only that Trump would have to have reason to believe his handling of the documents could be used to injure the U.S. or help any foreign nation. I have read nothing that argues Trump had such knowledge.
This is a sham. An absolute crap fest.
And yet again, the flaccid penis of the Republican Party is dysfunctional.
I haven’t heard too much from that bunch as our country becomes a Banana Republic.
I think I will now sit out the 2024 election, and hope many others do the same.
What a sham of a country we live in.
United States of America – May she RIP.
I think I will now sit out the 2024 election, and hope many others do the same.
What do you think this would accomplish?
Oh please!
Are you that much of an idiot?
Whether democrats or republicans win, we are on a sinking ship. I choose not to play. They are merely opposite sides of a worthless coin.
When the Republicans grow some fucking balls and have a spine installed, then come talk to me.
I’d like I see the Republican House or Representatives do some impeachments, whether the Senate plays or not, just to send a message to the fascists.
I do my fair share. I spent 30 years defending the Constitution in nearly every shithole in the world. I earned the right to sit on the sidelines for a while.
IMO the debate about the candidates, the political parties and the issues facing the Nation is part of the game. Offering up your own opinions and commentary is ‘playing’ b/c you may influence the thoughts and/or actions of others.
“Whether democrats or republicans win, we are on a sinking ship. I choose not to play. They are merely opposite sides of a worthless coin.”
This stance was crafted long ago by leftists as a means to undermine the US polity.
It has, sadly, worked –because they are always able to point to their own uniparty efforts as proof..
What do you think this would accomplish?
“we are on a sinking ship…I earned the right to
sit on the sidelines for a whilesit in my cabin and sulk.”In other words, it’s all about your feelings. Thank you for your proposed de facto vote for Biden/Newsome/or…?
GFY.
You can play your mental masturbation bullshit with others. It doesn’t work here pal.
I am not sitting in my cabin and sulking.
What I am doing is refusing to bang my head against the wall for more than 45 years of voting under the guise of “we have a choice and our votes count.”
Fûck that pal. We have bullshit elections put on by bullshit characters, giving us bullshit results, by people who are paid shills by our enemies.
There isn’t a damn bit of difference between republicans and democrats who get paid by laundered money from China, Ukraine, and lord knows where else.
But please, feel free to continue playing the game and kidding yourself.
I supported my country and now look forward to turning it over to asshats like you.
Why lend any legitimacy to their fraud. They’re going to steal it either way.
I would rather vote before a machine does it for me. It will also make them print more prefilled ballots.
@Danny (sorry I could not figure where else to place this)
You cite, 18 U.S.C. 1924 ,“(a)Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to RETAIN SUCH DOCUMENTS OR MATERIALS AT AN UNAUTHORIZED LOCATION shall be fined under this title or…”
The fly in that ointment is that Trump does not fall under the category of officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States. The law was never intended to apply to the President or Vice President. Even as a former president Trump does not fall under those categories.
That is what has me thinking this is just another nuisance lawsuit intended as a distraction. Even so, why hasn’t Brandon been charged? At least Trump had the documents in a locked room (with more locks installed at the request of the government who had full access on several occasions) guarded by Secret Service and not in his garage, Penn State office, lawyers office in Boston, house in Delaware etc
The president is an employee of the United States, his employment is as chief executive. He also wasn’t still president after his term ended which means no longer having access to anything classified.
If taking pictures of yourself on base and refusing to give up your phone after your deployment could get you convicted (it could and for one Bryan Nishimura it did) a former president keeping classified documents he isn’t authorized to have also could be.
There is very good reason why everyone who is anyone in law has been telling us that the serious legal problem will be these documents, and not Alvin Bragg.
No. He. Isn’t. The words, employee, officer, and consultant have precise definitions within Federal an other law.
As Mr. Jacobson has stated whether Trump pressured people to lie to investigators does present a legal problem. I forget exactly how he put it so I am paraphrasing. But even that charge must be based on the language of the law. I think he is referring to those related to 18 USC 1512, and 1519. For example 1512 (b) 2 (a) reads,
(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—
.(2) cause or induce any person to—
(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;”
Just telling someone “I want you to say this instead of that.” Does not rise to the level of intimidation, threats, or corrupt persuasion. Note too that this has to be done knowingly. Intention matters.
PS. I was mistaken as to what Mr. Jacobson was referring. He was referring to whether Trump instructed his attorney to lie regarding what Trump told him about the documents. The attorney testified before grand jury after his claim of attorney client privilege was revoked based on “crime-fraud exception.”
” The attorney-client privilege does not cover statements made by a client to their lawyer if the statements are meant to further or conceal a crime.”
” For this exception to apply the client must have been in the process of committing a crime or planning to commit a crime. ” The above implies the client had knowledge a crime was being committed or planned. I do not believe it has been shown that Trump had such knowledge.
I have not read the ruling where it was decided the crime-fraud exception applied. But I do know DC courts are political and willing to do a lot of reaching to make sure Trump and his legal team are at a disadvantage.
Get caught with classified documents you are not authorized to have and you will not be getting out free.
Ask any lawyer.
You seem to be assuming that the failure of Trump to comply with the request of the archivist for the documents to be returned somehow morphs into a violation of the espionage act. I conclude it does not.
The documents (classified or not) Trump had possession of are rightly regarded as presidential documents and are to be turned over to the archivist. No mention however is made of any penalty for not doing so in a timely manner.
Under the Presidential Records Act we read, “(3) the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President or the former President’s designated representative.” Since the files at Mar a Lago are presidential records (after all the national archivist has claimed they are) then those records the former President shall be made available to him. That certainly would not be part of the act if it was presumed the former President did not such authority or it excluded classified material. Why would a former President be prohibited from material he had full access to while in office?
The executive order cited as evidence Trump violated the Espionage Act (since he was not granted a waiver giving him authority to possess those classified documents) does not make sense if they truly are part of the presidential record. It makes sense that Trump’s access to documents classified after he left office (or not originating with him) would be restricted and subject to approval.
The act provides no penalties for failing to comply The executive order lists sanctions but not criminal penalties. That is probably why DOJ used the allegation that Trump violated the act to charge him under the Espionage Act which does provide for lengthy prison sentences. Yet it should no be assumed the two shall be intertwined. It is quite possible for an unauthorized person to be in possession of classified documents and not be engaged in espionage.
How strange that this comes out just when more information about Brandon’s $5 Million bribery payoff is coming to light and it has been learned it is from Ukraine combined with the new information that Brandon knew 3 months before the Nordstream destruction Ukraine divers were looking to blow it up. Kind of looks like this administration is using the DOJ for distraction
I’m a little surprised DoJ resisted the temptation to arrest Trump and do a perp walk with him in prison overalls. Perhaps that was a bit too pointed even for them.
I wonder how this case works in front a jury. The jury can’t actually see any of the classified documents, the only evidence they even exist is the US attorney asserting they do.
While this case is being handled in Florida, Miami like all of southeast Florida tilts Democrat.
The Espionage Act doesn’t apply to presidents. Smith has no idea he’s already lost?
RepublicanRLJ, See that was my overall impression too. Not being a smarty pants DOJ lawyer I just depended on plain reading of text and logic. There are even hints the laws cited are for those I will refer to as underlings.
1st hint the president is excluded (and by logic ex presidents)
The president is the one who designates what is considered a prohibited place not specifically listed in the first part of USC 18 793. If the president is given the authority by law to make such a determination it means he is fully entrusted in obtaining the information pertaining to those places.
This would mean parts b and c do not and never were meant to apply to the president.
Part D also would not apply to the president for two reasons. First this statement, “the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation,” Having the documents is not enough, the above would have to be shown. Second, “…or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;” I would argue that the president in regards to national defense documents (whether classified or not) is not subject to the demand of any officer or employee of the United States. He is after all the commander in chief of the armed forces. Why would he be obligated to surrender any information pertaining to his authority under that title.
Part F, is another big hint the espionage act does not apply to the president, “…Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—”
I am at a loss to determine who the president’s superior officer would be.
It is the opportunity for the leftist media to endlessly chant “Pres. Trump has been indicted.”
For low information voters, the ignorant/stupid, and other Democrats, it is enough.
All I see here is standard 3rd-world, banana republic bullshit, and I expected nothing better from that fascist pedophile or anyone morally compromised enough to work for him.
Glad Trump announced it first. Made ABC do a fact-check, lol.
Depressing and inexcusable how much of populace is blissfully unaware or apathetic that we are now living in a banana republic. Going about their bidnez checking their smart phones streaming shows checking their social media and twatter:f ing clieless drones
Clueless
It’s freaking sad. People don’t know how many branches in the gov’t, or the functions of Congress etc etc etc and yet, they have been voting. For the destruction of America
“The Left will stop at nothing…”
We’ve known that for a long time. Or should have. The question is, what you will you stop at to stop them?
Alan Dershowitz on Rita Cosby last night hit the nail on the head-Trump is the subject of prosecutors because he is exercising his constitutional rights in playing hardball against an indictment that is of dubious legal basis-which is what similar defendants represented by aggressive defense counsel do all the time, unlike Biden and Hillary who unquestionabnly violated the law and sought special “terms” and deals before discusssing their conduct with a weaponized DOJ
What happened to the 4th Amendment?
The DOJ has already predicated the baseline of their claim by saying they cannot tell anyone, even the court, what the nature of the documents are that underpin their assertion. Remember, they wouldn’t even let a court appointed “special master” review the documents.
Biden to Garland: At all costs, keep the press off of Hunter’s influence peddling and my bribery scheme.
“Trump Indicted In Mar-a-Lago Case”
Really, other than “Mar-a-Lago”, we could have written this headline on election day in 2016, or perhaps the day he won the Republican nomination.
The Left had already made up its mind to do this, but it was just a matter of adding a few creative details.
Trump will be indicted in the Jan 6 case too – and that one will be tried in DC.
Desperate Demorats try again…
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.