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FBI HQ Retracting Richmond Field Office Document Targeting ‘Radical Traditionalist Catholics’

FBI HQ Retracting Richmond Field Office Document Targeting ‘Radical Traditionalist Catholics’

The Richmond FBI office relied on the Southern Poverty Law Center and articles from Salon and The Atlantic to justify targeting these “radicals.”

Before I go into details about the story, I need to spell out traditional Catholicism.

Those described by the FBI office as “Traditional Catholics” are those who do not live by Vatican II and are not in Communion with the Vatican.

However! Those still living by some aspects of the Church before Vatican II are described as traditional Catholics, especially those attached to the Latin Mass.

Fact is, Church teachings and the Church have not changed.

I’ve noticed many young Catholics have adopted Catholic traditions before Vatican II, like the Latin Mass and wearing veils to Mass. I’m not young, but I’ve done it as well. Females like me love wearing a veil to Mass. We do not show our shoulders at Mass. We dress modestly, covering a lot of our bodies. We even cover our hair when we go out.

We love the Latin Mass, which is something Pope Francis is restricting.

Apparently, traditional Catholicism is… radical. The FBI Richmond office considers the traditionalists are a danger on par with terrorists and white supremacists.

Something tells me they don’t separate the actual Traditional Catholics and us, who love some of the traditions.

It doesn’t matter. The traditionalists and the rest of us are not radicals.

If you’re a Radical Traditionalist Catholic (RTC), then WHITE SUPREMACIST. Do you prefer the Latin Mass? White supremacist. Do you prefer to partake in other Catholic traditions pre-Vatican II? You’re a racist extremist.

FBI whistleblower Kyle Seraphin wrote about the eight-page document at He also posted some of the documents on Twitter:

Ultimately, there may be limits to the level of engagement between RTCs and other far-white nationalists. For example, many RTCs consider other forms of Christianity to be heretical and an over-emphasis on white nationalism may be off-putting to RTCs of different ethnicities and countries of origin. Conversely, deep-seated anti-Catholicism remains a characteristic of many far-right white nationalists. Nonetheless, the current trend of RMVE [racially/ethnically motivated violent extremist] interest in RTC ideology provides new opportunities to mitigate the RMVE threat through outreach to traditionalist parishes and the development of sources with the placement and access to report on RMVEs seeking to use RTC on social media sites or places of worship as facilitation platforms to promote violence.

Except…Pope Francis voicing his opinions on climate change and whatnot doesn’t change Catholic teaching. So overall, we do not care. We do care that he’s restricting the Latin Mass, but we’re not losing our minds over it, nor is it inching us to terrorism.

The FBI headquarters retracted and disavowed the document:

The FBI tells the Caller that the document, put forward by the Richmond field office, “does not meet the exacting standards of the FBI” and that the Bureau will be conducting an internal review.

“Upon learning of the document, FBI Headquarters quickly began taking action to remove the document from FBI systems and conduct a review of the basis for the document,” the agency told the Caller. “The FBI is committed to sound analytic tradecraft and to investigating and preventing acts of violence and other crimes while upholding the constitutional rights of all Americans and will never conduct investigative activities or open an investigation based solely on First Amendment protected activity.”

Who did the Richmond FBI office trust? The Southern Poverty Law Center, of course! Because we all know that group is so reliable.

The memo also draws attention to The Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), which is not in Communion with the Vatican. The FBI claims the Catholic media outlet Church Militant has grown closer to Nick Fuentes’ group America First organization.

Church Militant denied the relationship:

“The FBI report is based on ‘reporting’ by far-left extremists group and media outlets which clearly demonstrate zero understanding of Catholic theology. Those voluminous errors then found their way into this FBI report where flat out false conclusions are drawn,” CM said in a statement to the Caller. “Church Militant (and all faithful Catholics) in no way hates women, blacks, jews, immigrants or anyone else we may be accused of hating. To disagree with social or political points of view does not signify ‘hate’. It signifies disagreement.”

The FBI office cited two articles from Salon.

The best citation? That hilarious article in The Atlantic that describes the Rosary as an extremist weapon.

So the FBI Richmond office got its information from the Southern Poverty Law Center and three left-wing media organizations.

The FBI has not done a damn thing about the hundreds of Catholic Churches targeted after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. They’ve only charged two people in connection with an attack on some pregnancy centers in Florida.

There have been 275 attacks on Catholic Churches since 2020. There have been 118 since last May when someone leaked the opinion overturning Roe v. Wade. I wrote about those stats in late January. The number probably went up.

This motivates me to keep violence and threats against Catholics in everyone’s faces.

Here’s a video of the Latin Mass.


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Re-establishing yet again that the FBI is irredeemable.

That the FBI is using SPLC and Salon…Salon? to ascertain terrorists is beyond absurd,. someone’s head needs to roll, and it be OK with me if it weren’t figurative

    CMartel732 in reply to MarkS. | February 10, 2023 at 6:50 pm

    Funny, for 1300 years Muslims have been militarily trying to destroy Western Civilization esp up to their defeat by Christian (Catholic actually) forces at the Battle of Vienna 1683, and there have been 42,869 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11 (https://thereligionofpeace…. ) but the FBI is afraid of some Catholics?

I love the Latin Mass, it is a beautiful expression of honoring God and tradition.

    Mary Chastain in reply to starride. | February 9, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    SAME! I also have to wear a veil to Mass. I’d feel naked not wearing one!

    starride in reply to starride. | February 9, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    A full blown traditional catholic mass in Lithuanian/Latin or Spanish/Latin in a large church is an amazing experience.

    KEYoder in reply to starride. | February 9, 2023 at 7:10 pm

    As a non-Catholic, but from a Christian faith community in which women practice veiling when in public (not just in church), I would be very interested in hearing the Catholic understanding of the meaning and purpose of veiling. Does it go beyond “tradition”? Also do you view it as having meaning or significance for those of us who observe women who wear veils?

      Dathurtz in reply to KEYoder. | February 10, 2023 at 6:10 am

      I am not RC, but many “reformed” women practice veiling in church and cite 1 Corinthians 11 as their reason.

      jarmssite in reply to KEYoder. | February 10, 2023 at 9:31 am

      Veiling is what Christians (and Jews before them) do with things that are holy. Femininity, in its unique ability to bear and nourish new human life, is holy. Covering one’s head in the presence of God is also understood as a sign of humility. Beauty is a particular feminine trait. The willingness to hide that beauty before God is a sign of humility.

      Brought up Catholic, attended Catholic schools up thru first two years of Uni, altar boy all thru HS, during the transition from traditional to post-Vatican II.

      Back in the day…. standard practice was dress nicely supposedly to show respect and to also show humility in Church – idea being you attended to specifically commune with God. Men showed that by removing headgear, women by veiling if they wore headgear. The removal of make headgear was universal, in the US ladies church hats and veiling not so much.

      So male/female did the opposite to show respect/humility. Not really logic-driven IMHO, just adoption of cultural norms. From pictures from the time veiling outside the US was more common.

      I can’t help but think voluntary Catholic veiling at this point is comparable to Islamic voluntary veiling – you get some female islamics who prefer veiling. Or arguably comparable to gender-divided congregations in more traditional Jewish or Islamic congregations. Difference being at this point (in the US) there’s little to no cultural (or especially legal) pressure to veil.

      Plato in reply to KEYoder. | February 10, 2023 at 11:48 am

      There are a ton of passages in the Bible on this; for example…

      5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. —Corinthians 11:5

      6 For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. — 1 Corinthians 11:6

The Gentle Grizzly | February 9, 2023 at 4:00 pm

This is low even for those clowns.

Too little, too late. The FBI needs to be razed and rebuilt from the ground up. – and more likely split into more than one agency.

thalesofmiletus | February 9, 2023 at 4:02 pm

That’s some authentic sounding Latin!

The FBI is hopelessly corrupt, morally bankrupt and stupid. In keeping with Dumb-o-crat priorities, propaganda and talking points, they’ll target the chimeric and conjured phantasm of “Christian Nationalists,” but, not actual Muslim supremacists and terrorists. I suppose it’s only a matter of time before “Jewish Nationalists” are the new, contrived bad guy that the FBI focuses its energy and attention on.

“The FBI tells the Caller that the document, put forward by the Richmond field office, “does not meet the exacting standards of the FBI” and that the Bureau will be conducting an internal review.”

Washington Swamp BS-to-English translation: “We got caught brazenly and unfairly vilifying and slandering Catholics, and, this makes us look bad, so, for appearances’ sake, we’ll retract this memo.”

“The FBI is committed to sound analytic tradecraft and to investigating and preventing acts of violence and other crimes while upholding the constitutional rights of all Americans and will never conduct investigative activities or open an investigation based solely on First Amendment protected activity.”

If that’s their policy it’s wrong. There are many first-amendment protected activities that are good indicators that a person or group should be investigated. What about actual neo-nazis, white supremacists, communists, radical Islamists, cults that openly advocate violence, RAHOWA, etc. All of those are protected by the first amendment, but the FBI ought to be keeping an eye on them.

    healthguyfsu in reply to Milhouse. | February 9, 2023 at 4:39 pm

    In theory, you are correct.

    In practice, though, first amendment protections have become a moving target, particularly when the left is in power. “Disinformation”, “hate speech”, etc. have been overused political footballs to justify infringing on the first amendment rights of conservatives.

What a load of garbage from the FBI/SPLC. Reminds me of what am I finishing reading on how the Communists took aim at Roman Catholicism after WWII in Eastern Europe, especially Poland. I doubt any of those “experts” ever attended a Mass. And..yes… Latin transcends and brings all into the Mass. It isn’t exclusionary.

It is fair to accuse those “Catholics” who reject the authority of Vatican II — as opposed to those who accept its authority but merely like some of the old rituals — of antisemitism, since the Church used to be antisemitic, and it was at Vatican II that it repented and renounced that. Those who maintain that it was wrong, and that the post-V2 Church is heretical, must be presumed to cling to the old Jew-hatred that permeated the Church from the 2nd century until the mid-20th, unless they specifically accept that resolution of the council.

    Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | February 9, 2023 at 7:13 pm

    Are any of the downvoters disputing anything I wrote?! Are any of them claiming that the pre-V2 Church was not antisemitic?! That the Roman Catholic Church does not have a nearly-2000-year unbroken history of official Jew-hatred?! The Church itself has openly confessed that sin and repented of it. But the history remains what it was.

      alaskabob in reply to Milhouse. | February 9, 2023 at 7:30 pm

      I can never understand the Jew-hatred. It goes against Biblical prophecy in the New Testament. Also without the persecution of the early Christians by the Jewish officials we wouldn’t have St. Paul and the Road to Damascus.

        Milhouse in reply to alaskabob. | February 9, 2023 at 11:42 pm

        Jew-hatred wasn’t native to Christianity; it came in with the Greeks whom Paul recruited. They had hated Jews long before, and they didn’t give it up when they became Christians; by the mid-2nd century the whole Church was virulently antisemitic. Pretty much all of the Church Fathers hated Jews and preached violence against them. Even Augustine, who was against massacring them outright, called for them to be held as dhimmi and made to live in misery, as an example for Christians on what happens to those who reject Jesus.

        The Biblical prophecies were easily dealt with by adopting Replacement theology. Christians decided that God had replaced the Jews with them, and all Biblical references to Israel now referred to Christians instead. They were the new Israel, and the old Israel was consigned to Hell. I believe the Catholic Church has now rejected, or at least greatly moderated its Replacement theology, but for a long time it was official doctrine.

        And there are a lot of Protestants who still believe in it. Even some evangelicals and fundamentalists, though it’s a lot less popular with them and most fundamentalists now condemn it, because it contradicts such verses as Isaiah 50:1, Jeremiah 33:26-26, the whole of Hosea’s prophecy, and many more, that the Replacement theologians willfully ignored. But it took Christians a long time to come to that realization, and many still haven’t.

      G. de La Hoya in reply to Milhouse. | February 9, 2023 at 10:04 pm

      I downvoted you because I think you are an arrogant, ignorant, whiney, little twerp and an anti-Catholic bigot. As a Latin Rite Catholic I reject the once pejorative term “Roman” Catholic 😉

        And you are a classical antisemite.

        Sternverbs in reply to G. de La Hoya. | February 10, 2023 at 8:24 am

        You could have just put the period after twerp and been done with it.

        JackinSilverSpring in reply to G. de La Hoya. | February 10, 2023 at 8:46 am

        You forget the massacres if Jews during the Crusades, the continued expulsion if Jews from England, and from time to time France, the book burning in Paris in the 13th century of jewish

          JackinSilverSpring in reply to JackinSilverSpring. | February 10, 2023 at 8:56 am

          Jewish books, the expulsion of Jews from Spain, the ghettoization of Jewry throughout Catholic Christian Europe until the 19th century, and other kinds of deprivations. Having said that, I recognize that Christianity, Catholic and otherwise, ended polytheism and was an important civilizing instrument in establishing a liberal (in its old meaning) order in Western civilization. I bemoan the loss of Christian commitment in our society, which has led to all kinds of nonsense in it.

      Dathurtz in reply to Milhouse. | February 10, 2023 at 6:18 am

      It isn’t about right or wrong, but about the truth goring their ox.

      Apparently, pointing out a sin that was publicly admitted to and repented of makes you a bigot. What an odd definition.

      AgnesB in reply to Milhouse. | February 10, 2023 at 7:05 am

      I have attended Mass with the SSPX, who are not schismatic, as well as one of the last holdout parishes in the Archdiocese of St Louis that celebrates the TLM. The beauty of the Mass is indescribable compared to what the liturgical clowns at the Second Vatican Council, which was NOT a doctrinal council, forced on the faithful. I actually belong to a NO parish and I veil there, as do several other ladies. We want our Catholic traditions and identities. We love our Faith. And if any ladies need to know where to purchase veils, please let me know- my collection is growing exponentially.

      Mulhouse, respectfully your views on legal issues are usually cogent but keep your mouth shut about Holy Mother Church. Her history is checkered but then all of the history of mankind is as we are all tainted by original sin. Try looking hard at Oliver Cromwell and other early “Protestant” leaders if you want to fly your anti Catholic flag

      You’re wrong on the “Jew-hatred” of the Christian Church, Roman or not.
      But I don’t think you could understand how your words differ from the truth. (Especially not based on the Pauline carp you cite below.)

        Milhouse in reply to GWB. | February 10, 2023 at 1:42 pm

        No, GWB, I am telling simple and UNDISPUTED facts. For most of its history, the Christian churches, all of them, hated Jews with a passion and were little different from the Nazi Party in that respect, except that they accepted Augustine’s view that rather than wiping the Jews out they should be preserved in permanent suffering and oppression. That view is still prevalent in some corners of Christianity, particularly in the Middle East, but thankfully it has mostly disappeared in the West, and has been renounced and condemned by most contemporary Christian theologians and leaders. The sins of the past should not be held against people today who had no part in them; but neither does anyone have the right to deny that history.

        Even in those times Christianity was, overall, a positive force in the world. Now that it has shed that ancient sin it is even more a positive force. Christians today have nothing to be ashamed of. But their view is a modern one, and not how their predecessors used to think.

        Therefore when someone identifies with the doctrines of the pre-conciliar Catholic church, and rejects the changes to doctrine made then, it is fair to assume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that they adhere to the Church’s old and repudiated views on this subject.

        JackinSilverSpring in reply to GWB. | February 10, 2023 at 1:55 pm

        How little you know of the lachrymose history of Jewish-Christian relations in Christian (and mostly Catholic) Europe.

    explicitly refuting anti-semitism has nothing to do with changes to the Mass, such as priests facing to the congregation, or speaking the local tongue instead or Latin.

    Indeed, those Catholics who sheltered Jews from Nazi predation or were sent to the death camps for criticizing that were all Latin Mass practicers.

    Read your history – both the KKK and their Nazi brethren hated and persecuted Catholics. Hitler in particular regarded all Christianity as “a Jew Religion” to be replaced by state worship.

    The “logic” that Catholics are bad (because abortion) therefore Catholics equate to (insert violent bad group here) is popular on The Left but is nonsense,

    WASPs in particular have a history of at best looking down on Blacks, Jews, and Catholics – it does the “enlightened” “progressives” no credit that they carry on some portion of that prejudice.

      Milhouse in reply to BobM. | February 10, 2023 at 1:48 pm

      I never suggested that the Church’s repudiation of antisemitism was connected with the changes to the mass. But both happened at Vatican 2, and those who reject that council’s authority, as opposed to those who accept it but merely like the old rituals, must be presumed to reject the repudiation of antisemitism as well.

      Those Catholics who sheltered Jews from the Nazis did so because of their humanity, and because they thought the Nazis were going too far. The Church’s teaching at the time was, as it had been for most of its history, that all Jews were guilty for killing Jesus, and deserved to suffer, but that wiping them out outright was wrong. That is why the Holocaust didn’t happen until Germans had rejected Christianity, while retaining the Jew-hatred that Christianity had taught them. But the fact remains that their faith taught them to hate Jews.

      And yes, of course historically many Protestants hated Jews too. Luther and Calvin were both Jew-haters; that wasn’t one of the parts of Catholicism that they threw out. How does that help your point, if you even have one?

Defund the FBI

This may be the first time in history that the American Geheime Staats Polizei [FBI] worked hand-in-hand with a Latin American Marxist Pope.
Well, I guess if Hitler and Stalin, Ribbentrop and Molotov, could work things out, at least for a year or two, we shouldn’t be too surprised.

“does not meet the exacting standards of the FBI”

I laughed out loud when I read this. The FBI standards are lower than excrement.

I can’t wait until Francis the Red is no longer pope. He’s such an embarrassment.

    BierceAmbrose in reply to Paddy M. | February 10, 2023 at 3:53 pm

    “does not meet the exacting standards of the FBI”

    They got caught, with fingerprints on it. They’re usually way better at doing stuff on the D-L — that’s the stuff we need to be concerned about.

Did ANYONE get fired, get demoted, or penalized in any way?

Oh, that’s right. It’s the TRIAD, and they can do no wrong as long as their misguided ends justify the means.

I’m glad I’m old so that I won’t have to watch our beloved Republic crumble around me.

“The Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), which is not in Communion with the Vatican.”

Ah, yes it is.

A deeper dive under the hood of the FBI is required. An organizational culture that allowed the use of propaganda from a notorious grievance grifting outfit like SPLC and uses articles from the Atlantic and Salon as the basis for proposed counterterrorism surveillance is deeply flawed.

This isn’t happening in isolation. The larger context is the contrast in attacks against family planning and counseling facilities that don’t offer abortion v the much smaller number of attacks against abortion providers and the inverse relationship of FBI resources. This is a fraudulent counterintel/counterterrorism analysis that vividly highlights the partisan rot in the FBI.

    Gosport in reply to CommoChief. | February 10, 2023 at 10:28 am

    A good place to start de-toxing the FBI is to immediately boot all political appointees from management positions there. If you aren’t a graduate of the FBI Academy you have no business being in a position to pollute their ethos.

    Seriously, who in the world ever thought that political appointees would be anything other than whores for their benefactors? Why are we so surprised when they turn out to be exactly what’s on the label?

“Do you prefer to partake in other Catholic traditions pre-Vatican II? You’re a racist extremist.”
OMG, meatless Fridays — kill me now!

“The FBI claims the Catholic media outlet Church Militant has grown closer to Nick Fuentes’ group America First organization.”
The FBI has no one but themselves to thank for the growing popularity of groups who want to overthrow the swamp.

The person(s) at that field office that approved of this need to be terminated immediately. Period.

I also do not agree with Vatican II and now the new radical Jesuit Climate Change Pope so I have moved away from The Church. I guess I’m a White Nationalist.
Funny all the black people attending Rev Wright’s Church or the Nation Of Islam’s nonsense are not Black Nationalist Terrorists.
I really can not understand the Progressives Jihad on Caucasians. It is baffling to me. Why do they hate themselves so much?

Subotai Bahadur | February 9, 2023 at 7:04 pm

YHS is more than passing familiar with the Pre-Vatican II Latin Mass, because in the ancient days when I was studying and considering converting to Catholicism it WAS BEFORE Vatican II. While I did not convert, I came bloody close. I won’t go into the reasons why here.

But there is a beauty and a majesty to the Latin mass, and it draws you closer to the history of the Church and the faith. When the mass was in Latin, you were literally sharing the faith with Catholics, past and present all over the world. And the need to study and translate the mass into your secular language was a form of catechism study that could not be beaten.

It is no wonder that our Leftists, like Leftists worldwide, hate Catholics. And that should be taken into account for any statements they make in the future.

Subotai Bahadur

    BierceAmbrose in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | February 10, 2023 at 4:22 pm

    Thank you for saying that. Now, let me testify, in turn…

    Of course There Are Those who hate Catholics, as they want themselves to hold the only catechism the people may know. They would have themselves people’s only source of guidance or succor, for the starving will celebrate the thinnest gruel as if it were a feast.

    Worse is allowing a “catholic” alternative in the world, that addresses all to see god within them; to see even those others as also children of god.

    The sins of The Catholic Church come of its calling honored in the breech vs. from the content and meaning of its doctrine. The errors within the church come more of “power corrupts” than the design being reached for, or even the people in it.

    Any idiot knows all this, but sophists gonna sophist.

    BierceAmbrose in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | February 10, 2023 at 4:48 pm

    I saw The Catholic Church in person at a funeral mass this last summer.

    A room full of strangers humbled themselves to each other and an idea, in the name of a good soul, tho struggling and profoundly flawed. Tho what is the meaning of The Catholic Church but that — we are all struggling, profoundly flawed, perhaps a little good if we try. Do better. Here’s some help.

    The officiating priest spoke about the congregation — the church writ large, that church, the congregation of that moment, in that place for that purpose, the dead man’s community, family, and friends. People showed up to respect this guy’s good, and his struggle. That’s all of us. And recognizing that is part of the way. And the institution of a church helps with that part.

    The respect there struck me — for the tradition, the place, the symbols, the priest, and his role, embodying for a time these things greater than he. And connecting that to the life that had ended. We were all left with what we had from Mike along the way — after that, we’re left with what we can make with what he gave us, mostly despite himself. Good message.

    Mike’s people were Albanian, tho this was in besotted, deplorable up-state NY, full of arrogant anglos, scrabbling back-stabbling small-towners, and the righteous long in the church. Or so, one might imagine — I saw none of that. I didn’t bother counting the Jews attending, or we “freethinkers” without official place anywhere. All were welcome. And the offer to all was community and congregation, within a tradition that supports seeking an exalted destination. The striving is the calling, and can be itself the reward.

    That service offered a vague, partial glimpse of something better that might be, as Mike and his life did, mostly despite himself. You could see the good all the better for the symbols, and rituals. The sacraments say things you can’t quite say other ways.

    BTW, the deplorable bigots let themselves be quietly guided by a black man, who’s West African accent colored the Latin, and the English he used. He was only “Father” to them.

    This Catholic Church is a treasure beyond measuring, and a gift we couldn’t pay for.

nordic prince | February 9, 2023 at 7:23 pm

Well…technically, “traditional” anything would be considered “radical” because the original (Latin!) meaning of “radical” is “relating to or proceeding from a root”… and traditionalists by definition seek to hold on to their roots.

But yeah, that’s not the modern connotation of the word, and we all know what most people mean when they speak of “radicals.”

    On the contrary, as I understand it “radicals” are those who want to uproot the entire system and replace it from the bottom up. They utterly reject tradition, and want to replace any practice that is not rational, no matter how old or harmless it is.

      nordic prince in reply to Milhouse. | February 11, 2023 at 1:41 am

      That’s the modern connotation – “radicalism” has come to mean “extirpation.” But originally “radicalism” represented a return to one’s roots, not an overturning of the same.

        Sorry, but you are not correct. The term “radical” has from its very beginning meant one who wishes to reform something from the very roots up. In other words, to uproot the current system and replace it with something better, more rational, etc.

        If you claim it used to mean to return to and preserve the roots, please cite something supporting that definition, from the late 18th or early 19th century.

2nd Ammendment Mother | February 9, 2023 at 7:38 pm

I always thought it was my gun collection and and crackpot tin hat theories (the ones that always turned out to be true 6 weeks later) that would get me on a government watch list?

Who knew it was my concealed large capacity rosary, copy of The Catechism in my console and a passing familiarity of the Latin Mass that was a danger to the world as we know it?

George_Kaplan | February 9, 2023 at 7:43 pm

Relying on the claims of a recognised hate group (SPLC) and Far Left media organisations to derive conclusions about whether a group of Roman Catholics are dangerous terrorists is itself dangerous.

Is the FBI trying to prove that it’s unsalvageable?

    Ah, but SPLC isn’t a “recognized” hate group. I mean, we recognize it, but most people don’t, and the government certainly doesn’t. The “official” hate-group list is maintained by SPLC, so of course they don’t put themselves on it.

As Subotal pointed out, the majesty and beauty of the Tridentine Mass is powerful. Add in the chimes/bells and the incense, and the decorum of the parishioners (including veils and modest and dignified dress), and you have a very moving experience.

I often attend a sedevacantist church that is NOT part of the Roman Catholic organization. I conceal my worship there from my local parish priest — I would not enjoy a discussion of my risking my soul by attending these services. Now I guess I have to conceal it from the FBI as well.

[Sedevacantist: Latin, Empty Seat. This is the term used by the Church for the state of the Holy See between the death of the Pope and the appointment of the new Pope. However, it is also a term for a group of people (Sedevancantists) who assert that all of the Popes since Pius XII (who died 1958) have been false Popes, and that there has been no legitimate Pope since 1958 (or, in some cases, earlier – some of these people deny that Pope Pius XII was legitimate).]

The Gentle Grizzly | February 9, 2023 at 9:17 pm

I suspect that plenty of Jew-hatred is there. It just isn’t as outright public as it was.

    Among sedevecantists and other “Catholics” who reject V2 it’s pretty open. Cf Mel Gibson and his family; they’re old-fashioned antisemites because they still believe what the Catholic Church taught them in the 1930s.

I was an altarboy during the days of Latin Masses and ladies wearing a veil. In fact, if a lady showed without a veil, she’d be given one at the entrance of the church as a courtesy.

It’s a sad state of affairs when I see woman and their children come to Mass looking like they just came out of a garden or the beach.

I’m an old school Catholic that while I miss Latin Masses, there could be a healthy mix. In my church, we had English, French and Latin Masses.

The least we could do for the Lord is to show respect by dressing like we put some thought in what it means to attend Mass.

The FBI’s preventative crime operation seems a lot like guilty until proven innocent i.e., arrest people and fill in the probable cause later. Attending a school board meeting? Watch your six, attending mass? Do likewise.. The FBI needs to stay in their lane. It seems every DOJ / FBI action is covered with a national security blanket so the DOJ/FBI can do what it wants. Even Congress is not allowed to get questions answered. Does the DOJ/FBI really expect me to believe a few mentally unbalanced individuals are a national security threat to a country of 320+ million people inside a land mass the size of the USA. and protected by a very expensive and capable military? Even Pearl Harbor or 911 was never a true National security threat. If there is a real threat to the US it’s the DOJ/FBI.

If one is truly interested in the TLM, I would recommend watching Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ the night before attending such a Mass. my now husband And I were already attending the TLM in NJ when said movie was released so the visceral recreation of the Savrifice portrayed in the movie and then again the next morning at Mass drove home the point of what we as Catholics truly were experiencing. It was life altering

Lybrarious Booker | February 10, 2023 at 9:53 am

Pray for government shutdowns.

2nd Ammendment Mother | February 10, 2023 at 10:30 am

Why is the FBI’s sudden attention on ANY Catholics something to take seriously? The report talks about people with an extreme point of view – likely fewer than a hundred people, if they actually exist and are a threat to anyone…. is intended to co-op Catholics in their own persecution. You see, I’m not that crazy kind of Catholic you’re looking for, I’m a good modern Catholic. Except when the government starts flinging bullets, everyone is a target – men, women and children (and making a huge leap in logic – in the case of the Bundy’s, they even wantonly destroyed the livestock to make their point). Just ask the folks being held because of the Jan 6 “thing”.

“At Mount Carmel in Waco, Texas, agents of the U.S. Treasury Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) launch a raid against the Branch Davidian compound as part of an investigation into illegal possession of firearms and explosives by the Christian cult. ”

Just saying….

SPLC was founded by 2 Jewish men with an anti-conservative bent. Poverty and discrimination have been very, very good to them, making them both millionaires. SPLC staffers spilled the beans in 2019 about the discriminatory, sexist, feudal hierarchy that permeates SPLC HQ. Guess the FBI’s intel gathering doesn’t extend to reading articles in magazines. Derp.

The Reckoning of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center
By Bob Moser, March 21, 2019, The New Yorker

FBI disavowing those documents is not the same as the FBI disavowing the people in the Richmond office who put paid to that piece of SPLC hate dox. Those people are still in the office, aren’t they? Unless they are cleaned out, nothing was accomplished by the mere disavowal & removal of the documents. That cauldron of putrescence is still in place and ready to erupt again.

One item of clarification:
The paper does specify that “Rad-Trad” is not just pre-Vatican II, but some groups that are even more “Trad” than that. Think Mel Gibson.

I am just amazed at this nonsense.
The White Nationalist Movement is often connected with the KKK.

The Klan has existed in three distinct eras. During the second era, they targeted Catholics (mainly Irish and Italians). My Irish mother told me stories of cross burnings in the next town over from where the Irish, the Italians lived, and she lived in Eastern Pennsylvania.

The FBI has no sense of history, and the long term interactions of these various groups. It just isn’t likely that there would be any more than the odd occasion when a few outliers of these contrasting groups would ever team up.