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NBC News: Democrat Katie Hobbs Beats Trump-Endorsed Kari Lake for Arizona Governor

NBC News: Democrat Katie Hobbs Beats Trump-Endorsed Kari Lake for Arizona Governor

The Arizona Democrats meddled in the GOP primary, boosting Lake to be the candidate due to her ties to Trump and non-moderate views.

NBC News projects that current Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, a Democrat, defeated Republican candidate Kari Lake for Arizona governor.

I don’t know how this couldn’t go for a recount. But Arizona law requires the difference to be 0.5% or less. The count is at .98%. This makes no sense since most polling has a margin error of +/- 4%.

Hobbs became a household name in 2020 when she defended Arizona’s election system after a fiasco counting the ballots.

President Joe Biden eventually won the state.

Despite new machines and whatnot Arizona encountered the same old problems. But people demanded Hobbs recuse herself since she is secretary of state:

Lake won many votes from Maricopa County, the largest county in Arizona.

But it’s another case of Democrats meddling in the GOP primary and it working. The Democrats hoped to get Lake elected due to her ties to Trump and denying the 2020 election:

In Arizona, voters are essentially split into thirds, among Republicans, Democrats and independents.

Hobbs and her allies centered the campaign on abortion rights, putting Republican-endorsed restrictions at the forefront of their message. But they also sought to contrast their plans on inflation and immigration with Lake, a political newcomer.

NBC News exit polling bore out Hobbs’ theory of the case, with 58% of Arizona voters feeling either dissatisfied or angry about the Supreme Court ruling that overturned Roe V. Wade and 80% of those voters casting ballots for Hobbs.

NBC News exit polling also found Hobbs winning the majority of independent voters and 59% of self-described moderates, who made up a plurality of the electorate. More than 70% of voters 29 and under, who made up about 12% of the electorate, backed Hobbs, who also won over a higher percentage of Republican voters than Lake won Democrats.


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Colonel Travis | November 14, 2022 at 9:24 pm

How many elections have (R)s won when the counting goes on for days?

    The important thing is that we pretend that our elections are safe and secure. Then, we can kick MAGA out the door and go back to uniparty losers while we slowly march leftward. But, at least we won’t be deplorable, then.

    Pretty many, and we note them here on LI.

      Colonel Travis in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 10:11 pm

      It was a legit question, I really don’t know. I am not one who automatically believes fraud is responsible for every outcome in favor of the (D)s. It’s a lazy answer given far too much. This country is genuinely divided into two political sides that cannot reconcile with one another.

      At the same time, the fact that one of those sides has no meaning in life besides the acquisition of power, they simply cannot be trusted.

        I agree, and we should be skeptical. The thing is, how does the Democrat House rep running the campaign arm of the Dems lose? And he did. They just, what, forgot to cheat there?

          Colonel Travis in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 11:17 pm

          This is a devil’s advocate comment, I like to test ideas. Maybe they stink. I’m OK with that.

          1.) Maloney conceded the morning after the election. That count did not go on for days. From what I’ve read, I don’t think he was well liked in the party, especially back in his district. No one cared to help him out because of this. Plus, he is an easily replaceable part, as the (D)s see it. He was in that campaign director’s job for not even two years? Find some other schmuck, the (D)S are full of them.

          1a.) All along, seems like the (D) party was resigned to losing the House anyway?

          2.) Unlike NY, Arizona is purple. Governor is a prize, keep chipping away until it’s blue, do whatever it takes to get there.

          They just, what, forgot to cheat there?

          If you want to maintain the fiction of fair elections you have to occasionally let your opponent win. Not enough so that your power is threatened, mind you.

          tbonesays in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 15, 2022 at 3:29 am

          @Colonel Travis. AZ is now a blue state. When a party can run weak candidates and still win then you cannot say it is a swing state.

          I did not buy into theory that late ballots would rescue Lake.
          I was in line for 30 minutes on election day in a suburb. The line did not look like republicans at all.

          rebelgirl in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 15, 2022 at 9:05 am

          If they won all of them it would be too obvious..nor do .they still do not have the resources to cheat in all the congressional districts…notice it’s mostly congressional districts that they let go..not governorships or senate seats.

          Either hubris or, like the casinos, you have to have a winner occasionally to make it look legit.

          Tbonesays, if you only stood in line for a half hour then that means the machines were actually working in your location. That must mean you weren’t in one of those heavily republican areas where they sabotaged them.

          tbonesays in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 15, 2022 at 2:23 pm


          It was a yoga pants district which I assume trends D. The machine kept spitting out ballots though.

          Also the polling place was mortuary. but no one made the obvious joke, except me.

        Well, whenever a Democrat wins by a tiny margin you can assume it was stolen, simply because a certain amount of Democrat fraud is a given. Electoral fraud is just something Democrats do. It would be odd if they skipped doing it one election.

        But your question was about extra fraud piled on specifically when a race goes down to the wire, in order to push them over the line. Thus you ask whether we ever win the close races, and the answer is we do. What percentage of close races do we win? I don’t know the answer to that, but I know of no specific reason to assume it’s remarkably less than 50%. When the push over the line comes from a notoriously corrupt D county such as King, Cook, Dane, Philadelphia, etc., then there’s more room to suspect shenanigans, but in general no. At any rate, we definitely win a significant number of close races, so it’s wrong to claim we’re shut out of them and that they always go against us.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Milhouse. | November 14, 2022 at 11:26 pm

          Right, I’m not claiming (R)s always lose a close race. Clearly they do not. As I’ve said before, I am simply not a fan of election season, which has now brought us counting season.

          I learned from covid, that if you merely ask questions and almost everyone in authority start telling you to shut up and do what we say, that throws off alarm bells. The person running for governor in Arizona was in charge of the office that counts votes in her own race. Does that mean automatic fraud? No. But I don’t trust anyone in politics. This includes Republicans. I do not trust a damn one of them.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 14, 2022 at 11:55 pm

          Yes, the Secretary of State was running for governor. That’s a completely normal thing that happens routinely in almost every state where secretary of state is an elected office. In such a state, which is the vast majority of them, the incumbent secretary of state will always be on the ballot, either running for reelection or running for some new office, except in the odd case when they decide to retire. Did you raise any objection when Kemp ran for governor of GA four years ago? Stacy Abrams did, but most people mocked her for it.

          And what alternative is there? Should secretaries of state be limited to one term, and also not be allowed to run for anything else until they’ve sat out a term?! That’s quite a radical suggestion.

          I’ve seen it suggested that the running of elections should be taken out of the secretary of state’s office, even though that is where it logically belongs and where more than 75% of states put it. Well, either it goes to some other elected official and the same objection applies, or it goes to an appointed official, in which case they’re answerable to the elected official who appointed them and we’re back where we started, or it goes to an “independent, nonpartisan/bipartisan commission”, in other words the Deep State. That was what the Goo-Goo movement of 120 years ago wanted, and that’s why it was done in some states, but it’s a terrible thing, a complete subversion of democracy.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Milhouse. | November 14, 2022 at 11:59 pm

          Yes, I think anyone holding statewide office that is responsible for counting votes should not be able to run for office in that state while still in that position. What’s so horrific about that?

          maxmillion in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:13 am

          I was making that assumption back 15 or 20 years ago when Franken stole a Senate seat, and Christine Gregoire stole the Washington governorship, both close races won in “recounts.” Now they just blatantly manufacture enough fake ballots to make ANY race close enough for them to steal.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:23 am

          Yes, I think anyone holding statewide office that is responsible for counting votes should not be able to run for office in that state while still in that position. What’s so horrific about that?

          Because you can’t tell someone that they can run for office but they won’t be able to run for reelection at all. They’ll have to serve just one term, and then they’ll not only be out of that office but they can’t run for anything else either. It’s not not how politics is done or has ever been done, and you can’t expect it of anyone. Who would run for the office in the first place, under those terms?

          In any case, even if you think it could work, you have to acknowledge that it’s an extreme, radical position, not something that anyone has a right to expect as a matter of course.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:46 am

          Milhouse, the governor of Virginia cannot serve consecutive terms. You win once, you have to sit out next time. No other state is like that, and yes, you can run again later. But it’s not unprecedented.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 1:01 am

          1. That’s governor, which is the top of the pile. You can’t tell that to someone running for secretary of state

          2. Even the governor can run for something else. (Though with off-year elections there aren’t any federal offices up for grabs, and a governor doesn’t usually want to go into the legislature. But there’s nothing stopping one who did want that.)

          In any case it’s an extremely radical suggestion, not something that you have any right to expect as a matter of course.

          Dimsdale in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 11:57 am

          It is getting to the point where the expectations of a well run, transparent election is an extremely radical suggestion, something we do have a right to expect as a matter of course.

          Never underestimate the Democrat Socialist’s capacity for mischief/fraud.

          CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:48 pm


          Those expectations are met in many States. Where they are not then people who reside there must get to work cleaning up their own home. No one can do it for them.

    Not a one.

    Of the top of my head Wisconsin Senate (Ron Johnson) Florida 2000 (George W Bush) and NC 2020.

    Lake was behind on election night, this was unfortunately a remain behind situation.

    The Arizona of the 20th century no longer exists it is now a swing state and we need to start nominating people who will win over independents if we are to win Arizona again.

    Our first warning should have been in 2018.

      Colonel Travis in reply to Danny. | November 14, 2022 at 11:48 pm

      This is not a long-term solution. I’d rather reform the country in every way possible, starting with the un-indoctrination of children so they don’t grow up to be leftists and “independent” squishes who are too afraid to take a stand on things that matter.

        I fully agree with the part about education which is why we must appeal to independents. We ran a candidate who would appeal to independents on exactly that issue in Virginia and won and he has done incredible work (even more amazing when you remember that Virginia is still a blue state).

        Ron DeSantis in 2018 ran in the ultimate swing state (which Florida most definitely still was) and won despite a blue wave making that extremely unlikely.

        Appealing to independents isn’t about selling out our ideas it is about selling them. If independents are repulsed by your denying the results of the 2020 election; feel you are crazy because of that; and hate you because they feel you are a puppet of Trump who they also hate you have made selling any of your ideas difficult (please note Glenn Youngkin never boarded stop the steal; repeatedly denounced it during his road to Richmond and always moved back to the education issue).

        In Vermont I don’t care it is just too far to the left for us to have any influence unless we take over the U.S. Department of Education and that requires winning the presidency but when it comes to states like Arizona we need to win over the indies because the price of not doing so is just too high.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 12:40 am

          If you look at exit polls in that Virginia governor race, CNN had a question about whether Va. voters believed votes would be counted accurately and properly, 92% of (R)s voters said they were not very confident. Questioning our elections is, in fact, a good thing to do. How you do it is what matters. 95% percent of (R) respondents had a favorable view of Trump – this is a after a year of him saying what he’d said about the 2020 election. If Youngkin never brought it up, it doesn’t mean it was ignored.

          Barely half of (R)s said education was their most important issue. The number one and two issues were taxes and the economy. And there was this question: How much parental say in what schools teach? 86% of (D)s said “not much” combined with “not at all.” Well, duh. You’d think the (R)s would at least match that or be higher with the most positive answers of “a lot” combined with “some”? No. It was 57%!

          Dimsdale in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 12:02 pm

          Questioning a political election, particularly a close one, is a healthy thing to do.

          Just like in science, where things like “climate change” should be scrutinized and allowed to “breathe” through debate.

          Sadly, in both cases, the Dems have decided that there is only one answer, and the voting and the science is “settled.”

          Garbage in both cases. Any election should be subject to scrutiny at the request of a participant or a party. It makes for a stronger, not suspect election.

          The last six plus years have proven that, if you don’t look at Bush/Gore.

          txvet2 in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 12:54 pm

          The Republican governor of Vermont just won re-election with over 70% of the vote. He’s undoubtedly a very liberal Republican, but it doesn’t argue that it’s Bernie’s state any longer, or that Republican policies have no place there.

        If Glenn Youngkin had run on anything you just said he wouldn’t be governor period. We have the experiment done running on the things you mention means losing the general election.

        Glenn Youngkin won a blue state Mastriano lost a swing state by the same margin we just lost California.

      MattMusson in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 7:39 am

      Unfortunately, we have legitimate reports of widespread disenfranchisement in heavy GOP locations.

      The only legal and ethical way forward is to Re-Vote.

    Massinsanity in reply to Colonel Travis. | November 15, 2022 at 11:53 am

    The cult members continue to deny the obvious… it wasn’t cheating, it was Trump inserting himself into the late stage election cycle when Rs had momentum building in polls across the country with his colossally stupid attacks on Ron DeSantis and “big announcement” coming up that stopped this momentum cold and led to the disaster that took place one week ago.

      I thought those “attacks” were after the election.

        CommoChief in reply to Dimsdale. | November 15, 2022 at 12:54 pm

        Nope. The rally in OH DJT decided to lash out at DeSantis prior to the election. With the National media pushing it out across the Country. Then after election day more lashing out towards DeSantis and Youngkin.

        The midterms are not over. The elections continue until the fat lady sings and the ballots are counted and the runoffs completed.

        txvet2 in reply to Dimsdale. | November 15, 2022 at 12:59 pm

        No, it was just days before, starting with him insulting DeSantis. He pulled back some a day or two later by announcing that he was going to vote for DeSantis and urging his cult to do the same. Then after the election, he started attacking him again, along with Youngkin.

      Ironclaw in reply to Massinsanity. | November 15, 2022 at 3:07 pm

      One must wonder what would have happened if they had not sabotaged 30% of the voting machines and if they had simply counted the votes instead of the delaying tactics they chose. We will never know, but since they chose how they did I suspect the outcome would have been different and honest and the couldn’t have that.

    So far 12 in the House so what’s your point besides you don’t pay attention?

    But let’s deal with the elephant in the room, Trump is toxic and with his toxic bullshit sabotaged the Republicans who have too many voters who are too stupid to realize Trump’s bullshit doesn’t play and he’s damaged goods. If the Democrats would have nominated anyone but Hillary, Trump would have lost in 2016.

    So many of you don’t seem to realize that Trump isn’t going to help you and considering how well ‘generic ballot’ Republicans were polling and yet failed to win. It’s time to move on and stop pushing his idiotic populist agenda.

      Colonel Travis in reply to MosesZD. | November 15, 2022 at 5:22 pm

      Correct, I don’t pay attention to this subject.
      That’s why I said I asked. <— see this?

      5-foot-tall participation trophy in the mail headed your way.

    The candidate is also the one counting the votes. What a bad joke. Kari probably won by a large margin.

    henrybowman in reply to Colonel Travis. | November 17, 2022 at 1:05 pm

    A fellow who has done the math says that if the counting goes over two days, the Democrats win 70% of them. Doesn’t sound like an impartial process to me. “Equity” demands exactly 50% — hey, I didn’t write the rules.

Completely rigged.

I don’t like having to resort to profanity but F NBC. Katie should employ every legal, administrative, and political tool available to fight this. Someone has to.

    Concise in reply to Concise. | November 14, 2022 at 9:49 pm

    Wow, major mistake, Kari,

      amwick in reply to Concise. | November 14, 2022 at 11:41 pm

      She has Harmeet there.. She said they are still counting. 9 min ago.

        Mauiobserver in reply to amwick. | November 15, 2022 at 1:40 pm

        According to the state there are about 45,000 votes left to count and Hobbs has an 18,000 vote lead.

        Do I trust crooked political operatives to honestly count and tabulate those votes? The answer is no but there is still a slim chance for Lake.

She didn’t lose , it was stolen, by the mules as it was I. 2020 and as it will
Always be as long as we allow this.

We are a dead nation

    Yes, because every election we lose was “stolen.” Every election we win was perfect.

      Wow. Just wow, you think they weren’t harvesting ballots in Az?
      Did you watch the movie 2000 miles? Do you wonder why they imprisoned the investigators and not the criminals. Wel, they did put “2” in jail temporarily… there’s that… Justice was served!
      Do you know that the Mariupol a County officials that were in charge of Counting the votes out a pack together last year to stop MAGA politicians?

      I tried to post the info.

      Yes, it was stolen, absolutely

      And absolutely this is personal

        Milhouse in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:39 pm

        2000 Mules does not make its case. Drop boxes by their nature are in heavily trafficked areas, so of course there will be multiple phones that pass through the general vicinity of several of them. Many normal people just going about their daily business will pass by several boxes without stopping at any, and they would be included in D’Souza’s evidence.

        Despite searching high and low for video evidence, D’Souza could not find any video of the same person dropping off votes at more than one box. Not one. He says that doesn’t prove it didn’t happen, and he’s right; but the onus is on him to prove it did happen, and he couldn’t do that.

          Jounulz in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:50 am

          You’ve left out the part where they take those phones they identified near the drop boxes and then were able to track them to various organizations/groups tied to GOTV operations through Zuckerberg’s fraud and other Dem outfits. So, D’Souza does actually make a compelling case, and certainly one pointing to the need to delve further.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 1:09 am

          You’ve left out the part where they take those phones they identified near the drop boxes and then were able to track them to various organizations/groups tied to GOTV operations through Zuckerberg’s fraud and other Dem outfits.

          If you mean that they identified them as belonging to those organizations, then no, they did not do that at all. They don’t even claim to have done that. All they claim (without presenting any evidence) is that some of the phones that passed by the general vicinity of multiple drop boxes also passed by the general vicinity of one or more of a list of organizations, which they do not name. Just as with the boxes, passing by doesn’t mean they entered the premises, and if these organizations are located in well-trafficked areas then it’s not surprising that many people pass by their offices every day.

          The basic flaw in the whole premise is that cell phone tracking data simply isn’t accurate enough to say whether the person carrying a phone went up to a box and stopped there, or merely passed by it on their way to somewhere else. It certainly can’t say whether the person put anything in the box.

          Ironclaw in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 11:58 am

          Not just passed by. They can tell how much time was spent in that area

        Danny in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:40 pm

        She was behind on election night, and at no point did she pull ahead; and the vote drops since election night narrowed the gap.

        This election wasn’t stolen. Karri Lake turned out to be charismatic which allowed her to come much closer than the other fight for 2020 candidates, and her use of the Tu Quoque was effective for reducing how much that hurt her.

        Unfortunately it just wasn’t enough.

        We need to face reality that the Arizona of the 20th century that would have picked any Republican over a Democrat (with very few exceptions like voting for FDR) is gone. Arizona is now a swing state and if we don’t win over independents we do not win there.

        Milhouse in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:45 pm

        Oops, I submitted that too soon.

        Do you wonder why they imprisoned the investigators and not the criminals.

        What criminals? 2000 Mules does not identify any criminals, so whom should they have imprisoned, and for what?

        Meanwhile the investigators were jailed for contempt of court, just as happens routinely to anyone who defies a court order to testify. You can argue about whether the court should have ordered them to testify, but once it did they had no right to refuse.

        Do you know that the Mariupol a County officials that were in charge of Counting the votes out a pack together last year to stop MAGA politicians?

        I assume “out a pack” should be “put a PAC”. No, I don’t know that, and I’m not taking your word for it.

          Ironclaw in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:03 am

          Don’t take his word for it, look it up yourself. It’s not like search engines are a huge mystery, but avoid Google, they”re as crooked as the pedophile in the white house.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:35 am

          I’m not taking gonzotx’s word for anything, so I had no basis for looking anything up, no reason to suppose there was anything to look up. Since you suggested this is an actual thing, I did look it up, and sure enough, two county officials started a PAC to support sane Republicans. So what? Why is that a bad thing?

          Ironclaw in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 1:16 am

          In other words, you know he is right and you just don’t want to admit it. Like I told you, don’t trust him, but it ‘s not like it takes any effort to type a few words into a search engine.

          As for all of this election bullshit, I’m done with it. If we can’t run honest elections, and I’ve seen absolutely no indication that we can, then I’m not going to lend any legitimacy to it myself. Tomorrow I call my local election board and remove myself from the voting rolls. That way nobody else can vote in my name either, because I have no plans to participate in this farce any further.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 10:55 am

          Removing yourself from the roll doesn’t prevent someone else from registering in your name. And now they can sign your name however they like, so they’ll be able to replicate it on demand.

          Elections still count. YES, DEMOCRATS CHEAT. We know that. I’m certainly not denying it. And that means any time a Democrat wins by a hair you can blame the cheating; without it they would have lost by a hair. But they only cheat so much. In 2020 they turned the cheating up to 11, and we still don’t know for a fact that they stole it. We’ll never know. Maybe they would have won anyway. But normally cheating is as much as they can get away with, but they can only get away with so much, so every vote still counts.

          Ironclaw in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:01 pm

          So your answer is to simply accept the cheating? Not a good answer, my answer is I’m done and any democrat that comes onto my property takes their life into their hands. I have clearly marked signs, no communists allowed. They get one one verbal warning and then they either remove themselves or I call the coroner. The ballot box is gone, there is now only the bullet box.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 2:37 pm

          The answer is do whatever you can to stop or reduce the cheating. One stolen vote less is one honest vote more. But if you stop voting then you’re just giving them another vote that they didn’t even have to steal! If you refuse to vote because they’re cheating, you are their accomplice. You are helping them and they appreciate the help. Don’t ever claim to be against them, if you refuse to vote against them.

          Ironclaw in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 3:15 pm

          The answer is I’m not wasting my time and effort on a lost cause. This country is dead, period. You might not be willing to admit it, but nobody really thinks elections are legitimate anymore. Nobody really believes that the pedophile in the white house is legitimate, nor is his vice-whore. None of it is legitimate anymore because nobody really believes in it and there is no consent of the governed.

          I’m going to spend my effort where it will actually do some good and that is to safeguard my property and my family. If I have to fight all comers, at least that’s honest, but I have a few neighbors I think I can count on and we can trade to bypass the pedophile’s shit economy.

          Also, I live in a voter-ID state. You don’t vote without ID either in person, or remotely. That means NOBODY can register me to vote without knowing things that only myself and the State have knowledge of. As far as being their accomplice, I’m fine with that. The sooner it collapses, the sooner we can build something actually worth having, but I’m done with corrupt bullshit.

      Well Fuzzy, we will need to focus on collecting ballots rather rgan getting a good turn out. We will also need to spend a little more money where it counts rather than spending .millions so one republican can defeat another. To insure votes for Mitch. There is a lot to repair. Returning to the party before Trump IS NOT THE ANSWER.

      Close The Fed in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 10:52 pm

      Having 20 to 30% of the machines malfunction on election day, was destructive to the GOP. We all know it. How many gave up on voting.

      If this had happened in Philly — that blacks had to wait for hours, and their machines didn’t work, the DOJ would have descended upon their almighty heads.

      Wake up, Fuzzy.

        I’m awake, thanks. And I see what happened. And I am disgusted beyond belief.

        And the judge refused to allow them To Keep Voting and open another hour or 2 because of the 2-3 hour delay in getting the machines to work.

        When has that EVER happened with a democrat request

        Like NEVER!!!

        The machine “breakdowns” were planned!!!!

          CommoChief in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 1:00 pm

          Maybe so, check let’s stipulate to that as a fact. Now knowing or suspecting the folks in charge of Maripoca elections of being in the tank and fully capable of throwing a wrench into election day what did they do?

          Told voters to come to election day. Which left in person election day voters vulnerable to shenanigans. Bad tactics.

          When you suspect an ambush, avoiding it is a better option.

          Ironclaw in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 3:19 pm

          Commo, the alternative was early voting and that gives the corrupt bastards more lead time to generate their fraud. I have no interest in fore-warning the fraudsters, I want to sandbag them. When you hit them all at once, on election day, they have to try to do it on the spur of the moment and that’s what the slow-rolling was all about.

          CommoChief in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 5:39 pm


          So instead of adapting to the reality of extended early voting and collecting ballots which the d/prog have used to great success against us …you want to keep doing what isn’t working?

          Maybe give it a shot cause trying to win using traditional methods in an untraditional elections process ain’t getting us victory.

          Ironclaw in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 11:16 pm


          Not interested. If we can’t have honest elections then I won’t be participating because by doing so I would be lending some credibility to a process that has none of it’s own. This country is dead, the communists won. I’ve already removed myself from the voter rolls so nobody can fake a vote in my name, I won’t waste my efforts on a lost cause, I’ll spend them protecting my property and family because that is actually something that can be accomplished. But, I’m done with this corrupt bullshit they call elections.

          Ironclaw in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 11:17 pm


          So your answer is Lrn2Cheat? nice…

      Mauiobserver in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 11:04 pm

      Of course they are on the up and up. We all know that false complaints are made against political machines like the Pendergast machine, Tammany Hall and the Cook County machine.

      AZ had a ballot initiative to prevent the last four digits of the SS number or drivers license from being required on mail in ballots. In theory there is a provision for signature verification but I have little confidence in that to validate voter identity. Needless to say, the Democrats opposed this ballot security measure as they oppose almost any attempt to make our elections secure and transparent.

      In Maricopa county 30 percent of the tabulators weren’t working according to the election officials and an unknown number of printers. Large numbers of voters to told to drop their Un tabulated ballots into a box to be taken downtown to be entered there.

      Was that fraud or incompetence who knows but when the person running the election won’t recuse herself and is running for Governor asking the question of integrity is common sense. To do otherwise is either incredibly naive or complicit.

        Large numbers of voters to told to drop their Un tabulated ballots into a box to be taken downtown to be entered there.

        Yes, and since there’s no way to know if a particular person has voted you can’t verify that said ballots weren’t simply dumped into the trash.

          Mauiobserver in reply to randian. | November 15, 2022 at 1:53 pm

          Maybe there is a way.

          Perhaps the GOP can fight back. Get a website and ask all voters who voted for Lake in person in Maricopa county to sign an affidavit saying as much.

          Then compare both the names with the names of voters who voted in the county. That would identify if large numbers of ballots were tossed out. Also if the number of people who claimed to vote for Lake on election day were far greater than the tabulation then there exists a possibility of vote switching by election operatives.

          The solution would require a revote in the county or counties where this occurred which would have to be court ordered and to prevent a repeat of November 8 would have to be paper ballots, counted on site administered by the court.

          Not likely to happen, but how likely is it for this nation to elect a senile president and mentally incompetent Senator in a span of just 2 years.

          Milhouse in reply to randian. | November 15, 2022 at 2:43 pm

          Maui, that is an impossible suggestion. There is no possible way that you could even hope to get every Lake voter to sign up on your web site. You may get thousands, even tens of thousands, but it will still be far less than the number of votes reported for her, let alone the number you suspect actually voted for her. This is just a fact.

          Plus you’ll get people who didn’t vote for her but will claim they did. Then when you go public with your claims they’ll confess that they lied, and discredit your whole effort.

        Large numbers of voters to told to drop their Un tabulated ballots into a box to be taken downtown to be entered there.

        Large numbers of voters to told to drop their Un tabulated ballots into a box to be taken out back and thrown in the dumpster.


          Mauiobserver in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 10:32 pm

          Possibly but if large numbers of Lake voters challenge and a court investigates and finds that thousands from this sample are shown not to have voted, then a court could intervene and call another election.

          I agree that this is unlikely but if it occurred then team Lake can expose the election as either total incompetence or outright fraud. I think either or both would give the AZ legislature backbone and probably enrage the AZ courts unless they are totally corrupt leading to more likely favorable intervention in future disputes.

          Ironclaw in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 11:20 pm

          No, it will show they voted because they checked in at the voting center. That’s why they couldn’t change locations once they checked in or if they couldn’t tabulate the vote.

          Ironclaw in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 11:22 pm

          Maricopa has shown the last couple of years that their elections are just about as honest as the ones at Tammany Hall.

      Oh, come on, Fuzzy: this one was so blatant, the whole world must be stunned.

      I would say the fact that her opponent was also in charge of the election removes all benefit of the doubt. They stole it, they had to, because if I were Lake the first thing I would do after winning is to order a forensic audit of my own election. They can’t afford that kind of transparency.

      henrybowman in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 15, 2022 at 2:27 pm

      “every election we lose was “stolen.” Every election we win was perfect.”
      Top-tier Democrats have LITERALLY said this. We have it on video.

    gonzotx in reply to Whitewall. | November 14, 2022 at 10:28 pm

    Kari was fantastically popular in Az for 20
    Years as Fox s face on TV. She was loved a s a candidate. The McCains are part of the globalist operation, of course they didn’t like her.

    It wasn’t about the votes, it was about the harvesting. Dead people, lazy people, bought people. You can collect 10 votes legal in az, how many times do
    You think and How many people did that?

      CommoChief in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 10:52 pm

      In AZ not enough Republicans did, that seems pretty clear. If the d/prog gather ballots for days and weeks while we wait for the big day then we put all the eggs into turnout on a single day. Then if something like 30% of machines are jacked on election day we are hosed. Why risk that if we suspect shenanigans by Maripoca County? Bad tactics.

      Not to mention the inside the R tent brawl in AZ of the McCain loyalists v libertarian leaning folks v populist right v Trump loyalists in a continuous squabble from before the primary to today.

        Close The Fed in reply to CommoChief. | November 14, 2022 at 10:54 pm

        The fact that 30% of the machines didn’t work, is enough to make clear the election was broken.

        The fact that SOMETHING always happens in Maricopa- just like in Fulton in Atlanta…

        People, if you can’t tell you’re being robbed, would you at least stay out of the way of those that can see.

          Red Maricopa county cost us. Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

          Fuzzy. IT DID cost us. Do you think it was some kind of coincidence it took them a WEEK to vote a third as many ballots as Florida counted in four hours? Was that incompetence or fraud? I think at least a little bit of both.

          MattMusson in reply to Close The Fed. | November 15, 2022 at 7:41 am

          Widespread disenfranchisement makes the election illegitimate.

          CommoChief in reply to Close The Fed. | November 15, 2022 at 9:52 am

          Bruh let’s walk through this slowly.
          1. We believe that Maripoca elections officials are less than competent and maybe corrupt based on 2020.

          The 2022 plan to counter or mitigate the potential shenanigans by those elections officials was… rely on election day turn out.

          Instead of accepting the fact that the rules in AZ changed to legally allow folks to gather up to ten ballots our guys in AZ decided they didn’t like that because reasons and didn’t pursue the option to use that method on a widespread basis.

          Instead they relied on election day turnout. Then sure enough 30% of the machines didn’t work causing a disruption. Almost certainly causing some voters who were willing to vote for us to give up and go back to work, go home or get caught in a catch 22 limbo between voting locations if they had signed in.

          Not smart tactics to walk into the ambush that you suspect is waiting for you.

          henrybowman in reply to Close The Fed. | November 15, 2022 at 2:29 pm

          2. Maricopa County election officials actually formed a PAC to defeat MAGA candidates. That’s a big fart in a small room.

          1. No, something doesn’t always happen in Maricopa. Something happened last time and this time. Did anything happen in any election before that? Not that I’ve heard.

          2. There’s a huge difference between Maricopa and Florida, or anywhere else, which you people are either ignoring or completely ignorant of, and which is sufficient all by itself to explain what went wrong: Maricopa, unlike anywhere I’ve ever heard of, has adopted an ambitious idea of allowing anyone registered in the county to vote anywhere in the county. Tell me what other place allows that? It’s a great idea, but the implementation is tricky and the kinks have not been worked out.

          Such a change ought to have been thoroughly stress tested first, and then the first time out they should have expected technical screwups and had resources already allocated and standing by to fix them as they came up. They neglected to do that, not because they’re evil or trying to cheat but because they’re incompetent and complacent. “Of course it will work perfectly; why wouldn’t it?” Says anyone who has never deployed new technology before.

          Ten years from now they’ll have the system working perfectly and people everywhere will be asking their county election boards why can’t they do the same. They’ll be extending beyond one county to the whole state, and then to the whole country. And they should! In principle this is clearly a good change. But incompetent implementation means that in the meantime they are having problems.

          3. Two county officials established a PAC to support Republican candidates they like. Why on earth shouldn’t they do that? What possible objection do you have? It’s their constitutional right. How can you jump from that completely innocuous fact to implying that they’re corrupt and manipulating elections? Does it bother you that county officials, especially elected ones, have political party affiliations?! How else could it be? How else has it ever been?

          henrybowman in reply to Close The Fed. | November 17, 2022 at 1:24 pm


          1. No, something doesn’t always happen in Maricopa. Something happened last time and this time. Did anything happen in any election before that? Not that I’ve heard.

          2. Maricopa, unlike anywhere I’ve ever heard of, has adopted an ambitious idea of allowing anyone registered in the county to vote anywhere in the county.


          Guess why they did #2?

          Because of all the other times you apparently never heard of, when elections in Maricopa were a shambles because specific precinct polling places weren’t operational on Election Day, or had been consolidated by the Supervisors into another neighborhood 20 miles(!) away without notifying the voters beforehand. When voters got to their “usual” polling place and found it closed (not as much as a sign there to tell voters where to go instead), they had no idea where they were supposed to go to vote, and the phone lines were jammed. Meanwhile, the lines to vote at the consolidated location were around the block.

          So instead of fixing the problem in the straightforward way (make the simple election process WORK, like everybody else in America can), they decided to cut the connection between people in a precinct and the polling place in that precinct (assuming they left any)… thus introducing a whole new class of problems that needed fixing.

          Maricopa voting has been a shambles for quite some time, you just haven’t heard about it.

        Ironclaw in reply to CommoChief. | November 15, 2022 at 1:37 pm

        Yet if we play their game, their way, then they get a real idea of how many ballots they need to manufacture ahead of time. The whole idea of voting on election day is to sandbag them and overwhelm their cheat machine.

          CommoChief in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 2:15 pm

          That ‘strategy’ seems to be failing. You realize that in some jurisdictions the elections officials make available who was and hasn’t voted? They already have a good idea of the outstanding r vote based on party registration and the ballots returned.

          Even if the there is a tip off effect from your argument above in isolation then why didn’t the campaigns on our side use the available information to their advantage?

          You seem to suggest a continuation of a failed strategy where we tie one hand behind our backs. I don’t see how that helps win. What matters is getting our candidates sworn into office.

          Ironclaw in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 3:25 pm

          It seems to be failing, why? Because they sabotaged a significant amount of the voting machines where those people tend to vote? If you consider that a legitimate tactic, maybe you’re really a communist.

          CommoChief in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 5:49 pm

          Now that’s not what I actually stated nor did I even imply that.

          If you suspect, correctly IMO, that Maripoca elections officials might do you dirty on election day then wouldn’t it be a better idea not to put all the eggs in an election day basket?

          If you ‘know’ the bad guys are laying land mines and you say
          ‘eff it, Ima just walk through it anyway’ …
          That doesn’t seem like a smart plan.

          Ironclaw in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 11:26 pm

          It IS what you said and there should never be a reason not to vote on election day. That’s what it’s supposed to be for. I’ve tried early voting, it felt illegitimate and wrong, not to mention I didn’t like hanging in line with the communist trash.

      Dimsdale in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:26 pm

      McCain was far from being a saint. See his willing participation in the Russian collusion hoax.

        McCain was a rat. It’s that simple. Call it Stockholm Syndrome, call it whatever: he was a rat.

        Ironclaw in reply to Dimsdale. | November 15, 2022 at 1:38 pm

        McCain was a traitor that collaborated with the enemy in Vietnam and was then saved by the general pardon that Nixon gave.

          CommoChief in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 8:20 pm

          I personally don’t like McCain or the aura of maverick and media adoration for the guy.

          That said, every person subjected to garage interrogation aka torture will break. That means you, me and everyone else.

          We teach that at SERE school. You get captured you will be tortured and you will break. The goal is to hold out until any tactical info you have is no longer relevant and to maintain as close as possible discipline enough to seek opportunities to escape.

    It definitely didn’t. The John McCain stuff would have been political malpractice even if Arizona was still red (it uselessly cost votes).

Sorry big thumbs and phone

Mr Bill Gates and his side kick, of one sees two sees fame, head of the very county office in Maricopa in question, put a PAC together to fight MAGA, ie Kari Lake , politicians running for office in 2021.

Now don’t you find that a bit , oh, I don’t know, conflict of interest, like being the SOS and running for Governor and not recusing yourself from the count?

It was rigged . Believe what you want

    Dimsdale in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:27 pm

    There should be a recount (or a resignation) just for that.

    Milhouse in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 12:43 am

    Anyone who did not complain when Kemp ran for governor four years ago has NO RIGHT to complain about Hobbs doing it this year.

    Anyone who does complain about secretaries of state being on the ballot must first answer how they think it should be done, and why in 200+ years nobody has ever seen this as a problem before. In almost every single election, in the vast majority of states, the secretary of state is running, either for reelection or for something else. That is the normal state of affairs.

    And what does it mean for a secretary of state to “recuse herself” anyway? Do you think she personally runs the counting?! Of course not. Nobody sane thinks that. She has a whole office that handles it; she’s just the elected official to whom they are ultimately responsible. How would “recusing” herself change that?

      Dimsdale in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 7:20 am

      I guess we’ll never know. At the very minimum, avoiding the appearance of impropriety, particularly when your opponent is bringing it up, would be prudent. As you note, the office is comprised of her (note the “her” part of this) office, and given her very low attendance at work, little would have been lost. Given her level of demonstrated incompetence, AZ would have been better off if she did recuse herself, much the same way the left demanded President Trump divest himself of controls on his businesses.

      That leaves two thing: 1) she is sticking it in the eye of Lake, and 2) she has some reason for retaining control of the office, be it to make some decisions of possible merit, or to prevent someone “not in the club” being appointed in her stead.

      I don’t think our founders anticipated the level of fraud and deceptive voting practices that the Dems commit when they wrote the Constitution any more than they considered electronic ballots.

      As for mail in voting, most of the world doesn’t allow it, or greatly restricts its use (

      It practically requires fraud. Too many things are being legislated for the convenience of citizens rather than good sense. Hobbs outright refusal to at least look like she cares, and recuse herself, shows a lack of good sense, or worse, that she needs to direct something she trusted no one else to do.

      She was also too cowardly to debate Lake. The numbers and anomalous incidents demand a very supervised recount.

      MattMusson in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 7:43 am

      Fortunately, when Kemp ran there were no reports of widespread disenfranchisement in heavily Democrat precincts.

        Milhouse in reply to MattMusson. | November 15, 2022 at 10:57 am

        I’m not sure whether you’re joking. There certainly were many such reports, which is why Stacy Abrams spent the next four years claiming Kemp stole the election. And we made fun of her for doing so.

      jhkrischel in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 12:25 pm

      Kemp likely won by cheating, and because he cheated, he didn’t pursue investigation of cheating in 2020, because he’d be exposed.

      It’s even likely that he cheated this year, and allowed the Walker/Warnock contest to go into overtime, instead of taking over Fulton county elections like he should have.

In States that have shifted away from traditional election day, vote in person mechanics we must adapt to the way the rules are written. Those elections are less about getting a voter to the polls and way more about investing in an on the ground operations to get folks to return the ballots. That means local folks in those States volunteering to out work the d/prog to get it done.

    Close The Fed in reply to CommoChief. | November 14, 2022 at 10:55 pm

    Whereever we control, we need to reduce early voting. Period.

      CommoChief in reply to Close The Fed. | November 15, 2022 at 10:03 am

      Meh, if it’s in person where voter ID can be checked and it’s of limited duration as in TX then it’s not as objectionable.

      The problem is where the voter registration lists aren’t clean, no meaningful voter ID exists, lax ballot security and allowing ballots to be gathered and turned in by 3rd parties or placed in non secure/monitored/staffed and recorded drop box.

      If the choice is between PA and TX in terms of elections mechanics then we definitely want TX.

        Milhouse in reply to CommoChief. | November 15, 2022 at 10:58 am

        And all of those things are just as bad whether voting goes on for one day or two weeks.

          CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 11:36 am

          Yep. Cleaning up voter registration rolls is still the best way to mitigate shenanigans. It’s also something local Citizens can get together and force whether by calling attention to it or filing suit.

          If they choose not to do it then they are stuck with the bad lists and all the downstream shenanigans that flow from it.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 2:29 pm

          Cleaning up the rolls is vital, but local citizens can’t force it by filing suit. They have no standing. The only entity that can enforce it is the DOJ or the state; under Trump there was some attempt at enforcing it, and there was some success, but there was not enough time to get it done. Under Biden, as under 0bama before him, DOJ is not only officially not interested, but refuses to cooperate when a local elections board actually wants to do it, and actually threatens to sue them if they should make even one mistake and remove an eligible voter.

          But again, this has nothing to do with how long voting goes on. Those are two completely separate issues.

          CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 3:17 pm


          Individual Citizens are not exclusively reliant upon Federal CT. Many States have sufficient avenues within State CT. See Mennella v Delaware.

          Claims in federal CT are not beyond reach. See PILF v Way.

          In addition under both ‘motor voter’ provisions and Help America Vote Act there are avenues to raise a complaint with the official (s) responsible and force adherence via State CT.

I promise , my last comment

I’m done….

Hope your doing ok Bear and that the scan showed positive for you.

Any electioneering process that takes six days to determine the winner, not to mention a process that is run by one of the actual candidates running for the office, and permits weeks of ballot collection within the construct, is no longer an election based on votes

Yep, another Trump loss. I’m done. He’s a loser.

    You made me do it!

    Rigggttt !!!! Be sure to send your money to DeSantis ASAP
    Oh wait, he doesn’t need your piddly 2,500$, he got hundreds of millions from our globalist masters!!!! It will be Billions before he’s done!!!

    Keep Believing these are legit wins and loses, it will be easier for you that way….

      What? This random rant makes no sense at all.

      Danny in reply to gonzotx. | November 14, 2022 at 11:44 pm

      Ken Griffin is a good man who has dedicated himself to one of the most important fights of our time (getting wokeness out of public schools),

      I am sorry that your devotion to your prince prevents you from seeing that and instead makes you routinely demonize him.

      If we had a few hundred Ken Griffins we would win the culture war.

        gonzotx in reply to Danny. | November 14, 2022 at 11:50 pm

        Lol you may be the only person in America that thinks Griffins is a good guy

          Danny in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 12:10 am

          You may be the only one who isn’t a Democrat who doesn’t.

          He is the one funding the crusade to remove woke indoctrination from school.

          I like him, if we had a few hundred more the culture would be shifted dramatically in the right direction.

          Stop being loyal to the prince we are supposed to be loyal to principles.

          wendybar in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 8:16 am

          Danny, so you want the same old, same old?? There is a reason Trump won, and when you start kicking him when he is down, and you lash out at his supporters, do you REALLY think we care if Republicans ever win again with that attitude?? We need something to vote for, and the same old, same old geezers, caving to Progressives EVERY time isn’t it.

          Danny in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 9:11 am


          Your “Back to normal” or your “GOPE” or RINO and any other worthless rhetoric really does mean absolutely nothing to me, and really is not going to sway me or anybody else. (in 2012 a governor standing up to woke capital would have been primaried as a rino).

          Trump is a surefire loss. The voters hate him; when he is on the ballot we lose or perceived to be on the ballot we lose. The elections we lost are the stop the steal candidates he selected.

          We lost several incumbent seats because Trump primaried the incumbent in favor of stop the steal candidates.

          The Democrats primarily ran against Trump.

          Even deep red districts proved dangerous for us with us losing some of the reddest districts in the country.

          Our choice is win or lose. Ken Griffin is a good man who has dedicated himself to removing wokeness from public schools.

          The idea that there is some form of justification for somebody who agrees with that agenda to attack and demonize him is about as absurd as it gets and demonstrates sacrificing principles for princes.

          Dimsdale in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 12:13 pm

          The Democrats ran against the image of Trump that they had concocted.

          The real “Big Lie” of the 2020 election was the combined efforts of the Dem socialists, media and tech overlords (but I repeat myself) to create a contrived image, which they have not stopped doing to this day.

          Try to imagine if they went after Biden with the same fervor that they persecuted Trump. And, unlike President Trump, Biden has a lot more to answer for in terms of harm to the country, here and abroad.

          henrybowman in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 2:35 pm

          Meme I saw…
          Photo of Trump: “All of the investigations, zero evidence.”
          Photo of Biden: “All of the evidence, zero investigations.”

      txvet2 in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 1:20 pm

      As far as I can determine, DeSantis raised about 190 million, some of it from sources who also contributed to Trump in 2020. Of that, he spent about 100 million on his re-election campaign, leaving him around 90 million, NOT the 200-250 or billion dollars you (and others) attribute to him. It is more than likely that he is spending part of the 90 mil helping Walker, but in any event he apparently came by it honestly, spent it honestly, and is in no way accountable to you for the rest.

    Close The Fed in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 10:57 pm

    Kari Lake is great. Arizona of all places has illegal alien problems. Trump’s not the loser – Americans who don’t care if their country is lost — they’re the losers.

    NYers voting for Hochul? With the crime? The deaths, the fear? They don’t deserve to live in a free country.

      She’s okay, but she lost. Like most other Trump-backed candidates. We keep losing or we move toward winning? I can’t influence that choice, but it’s clear to me that Trump is a loser at this point in time.

        Is wining with losers really winning? Strong, outspoken candidates like Lake are what this party needs, not mealymouthed toadies that cave at the first utterance of “racist” or “transphobe.”

        DeSantis took away the Dems ability to manufacture votes in FL, and they hate him nearly as much as Trump. He is outspoken and does the right thing.

        Either we crush the vote fraud, or jump in with both feet and push the limits of the laws that the Dems use for themselves.

          Running with losers who are ‘liked’ by the democats has long been the Republican loser playbook. WAY too many of us here are forgetting that.

          It just may turn out our nation has finally ‘flipped’ into permanent stupidity. After 2 or 3 generations of leftist indoctrination in our media and our schools, the job just might be done.

    retiredcantbefired in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 10:58 pm

    I hope there was an implied /s on this comment.

    I’m pretty sure there wasn’t.

      And you’re right, no /s here because Trump is a drag on the GOP. It’s not even arguable at this point because it’s been proven in election after election since 2016.

        Do you think actually that’s because the cabel is afraid of him?

        He doesn’t need their money, he doesn’t play by their rules

        He pulled open the curtain and it’s his fault they open fire?

        He has taken ALL
        The slings and arrows for us

        He’s our General Patton, and you want a General McClellan

        Think DeSantis has the cajones to walk through hell for us like President Trump has?

        your living in a

        Fantasy world

        Not going to happen

        Follow the money, follow the money, follow the money….

        retiredcantbefired in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 11:11 pm

        Does the position you’re now taking apply to cases where Trump endorsed an primary opponent to a Republican in Congress who voted to impeach him? (Either Impeachment 1 or Impeachment 2.)

          And replacing those congressmen with Democrats was a horrible idea, one that has weakened the actual causes we fight for.

          Trump can not become a gatekeeping issue. Most people hate him making him as a gatekeep issue one of the dumbest ideas of all time. I wouldn’t mind sacrificing support for a major principle. Trump however is a prince not principle.

          retiredcantbefired in reply to retiredcantbefired. | November 15, 2022 at 10:17 am

          Well, now you’re saying, in effect, that both impeachments of Trump were merited.

          And that Republicans in Congress should have supported them.


          You know 100% that isn’t what I said and just in case there is confusion I will copy paste it and you may highlight where I said your strawman

          “And replacing those congressmen with Democrats was a horrible idea, one that has weakened the actual causes we fight for.

          Trump can not become a gatekeeping issue. Most people hate him making him as a gatekeep issue one of the dumbest ideas of all time. I wouldn’t mind sacrificing support for a major principle. Trump however is a prince not principle.”

          People hate Trump making him a gatekeeping issue is stupid, the worst political idea of all time and the people have just screamed that.

          Donald J Trump is not a principle he is a man.

          Those are spelled “fauxpeachments.”

          retiredcantbefired in reply to retiredcantbefired. | November 15, 2022 at 4:46 pm

          Your rejoinder (below) makes no sense.

          For one thing, I’m inclined to agree with you that Trump’s time is over now. Mainly on account of his wanting to announce his candidacy way too early and his preemptive slams at presumptive rivals. I haven’t undergone a sudden conversion that makes me believe (as per the history being hastily rewritten) that Trump was always already all bad and always already making entirely rotten decisions, 2 years back, 4 years back, 6 years back, as far back in time as we care to go.

          The issue is not whether Trump the person was right to oppose Republicans in Congress who voted to impeach Trump the person (in Impeachment 1 or Impeachment 2).

          It’s whether the grounds for Impeachment 1 or Impeachment 2 were credible in the first place.

          It’s whether either impeachment was worthy of support from anyone other than ruthlessly partisan Democrats and amoral administrative staters. Whether either warranted assent from anyone not already intent on removing a president who was getting in his or her way, from anyone not already fired up to get rid of a president by any means necessary.

          So let’s take Trump the person completely out of the picture for a minute.

          Is impeachment of a president, with any temperament, of any party, warranted:

          (1) Because in one phone call to the leader of another country, the president brought up the need to investigate corrupt activity involving a politically connected actor from the United States and an oligarch in the other country. (Corrupt activity that there were many good reasons to believe was going on, but that the president was supposedly obliged, according to the “interagency consensus” of the administrative state, not to do anything about.)


          (2) Because a speech by an outgoing president, in which that outgoing official claimed that the recent election had been conducted improperly in a number of states and encouraged peaceful protest regarding that matter, actually incited rioters who had mostly arrived at the US Capitol long before the speech ended. (The severity of the riot was then purposely exaggerated via false allegations, never to be retracted, that rioters had killed police officers; the involvement of provocateurs and undercover spooks in the rioting was piously denied; etc.)

          If you think those are legitimate grounds for impeachment, you can show how they are.

          If you think they are not legitimate grounds for impeachment, OK, you and I agree on something.

          But if the latter is the case, how can you then demand that any member of the US House who voted for impeachment on such grounds deserves political protection?

          You see, it is an issue of principle. Major principle, I’m tempted to say.

          Regarding the House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump:

          — They were right to vote to impeach him, because Impeachments 1 and were merited.


          — They were wrong to vote to impeach him, because Impeachments 1 and 2 were not merited.

          If you think they were right to vote to impeach him, you should have been calling for conviction in the Senate, leading to Trump being removed from office and forbidden to run for president again. Were you?

          If you think they were wrong to vote to impeach him, now what?

          Was Trump (or any other Republican who disapproved of their votes) required to forgive them, to offer them apologies and endorsements in the upcoming primaries, to do everything possible to help them remain in office?

          Demanding they be forgiven and politically protected, if they were wrong to vote for impeachment, looks …. unprincipled. Should we make it our priority to keep any Republican in Congress, no matter how treacherous or lacking in principle they have proven themselves to be?

          I believe Valadao, whose race for CA-22 still hasn’t been called, was the one such Republican not to fall in the party primary. (California has a jungle primary.)

          If Valadao scores an R hold, will you be thrilled?

          I won’t be.

          retiredcantbefired in reply to retiredcantbefired. | November 15, 2022 at 4:48 pm

          My rejoinder below is to Danny, not to myself.

          Beyond some degree of branching, comments here no longer have a Reply button.

          I fully agree with you on impeachment, neither impeachment was justified which is why I never said either was.

          My point was simply that it did not justify Trump primarying congressmen who voted against him in impeachment because it did weaken everything we stand for to lose those seats in the general election.

          Losing seats we held because congressmen who either voted against Trump in the second impeachment or just refused to agree to his fraud narrative…..we now barely have a margin of error in the house as a result.

          You don’t have to convince me Trump shouldn’t have been impeached either time.

          I don’t think the impeachment vote alone justified primaries however.

          Even without hindsight the 2nd impeachment (the only one that got support from some Republicans in congress) well he brought it on himself.

          If he believed he needed 10k National Guard to prevent a potential riot he had no business holding that rally near the capitol.

          There was no insurrection, they did not kill anyone, and the participants are victims of a two tiered justice system, and it is outrageous.

          That doesn’t let Trump of the hook. A standard of as long as its not illegal it is fine isn’t a good one because people will judge both our politicians and us with them on more than that.

          That rally shouldn’t have been held at all. The election was over, the electors had been sent and the proceeding that was going forward was purely a formality.

          Any protest has a small chance of getting out of hand but even not thinking strategically like that; nobody wanted to see the peaceful transfer of power protested.

          We did not like seeing that in 2016. What the vast majority of Americans think happened was a one off riot caused by Donald Trump giving an infuriating speech that got rally attendees just angry enough to break into a riot.

          Presence of FBI agitators trying to create the riot (i.e. Ray Epps) makes it more complicated than that BUT do you for a moment think Trump didn’t know the FBI was up to that kind of thing?

          If he didn’t he was an idiot; if he did don’t you think he had an obligation to his followers not to put them in a situation where they are already angry; they heard a speech from a man they trust that got them angrier and professional federal agitators could manipulate them into getting into trouble?

          The riot wasn’t legally his fault but even remembering the FBI agitators if Trump insisted on having a rally; why not Alexandria VA?

          To far away for a federal agitator to succeed in convincing the angriest people there to go into the capitol, an honest local police department to.

          He shouldn’t have been impeached because he did nothing illegal, but I neither think he was being moral nor intelligent that day. I think he was thinking purely about Trump, and going about that foolishly.

        I agree. Trump’s tendency to insult and say stupid things has become worse over the years. He has no shame. Being great for policy is irrelevant at some point if you are a verbal butthole.

          Dimsdale in reply to puhiawa. | November 15, 2022 at 7:27 am

          But if you are a “butthole” on policy and a verbally great, a la Obama, all is well.

          I’ll take “Buttholes for President,” Alex.

        billo39206 in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 15, 2022 at 5:34 am

        I’m sorry but the GOP is a drag on the GOP. We need more who fight.

          CommoChief in reply to billo39206. | November 15, 2022 at 10:08 am

          We need more people who fight effectively enough to prevail in elections. The policy preferences of the candidate don’t mean jack squat when they lose.

          The key step is being sworn into office. Without that it doesn’t really matter how great the policies are or how much you like the candidate.

    Mauiobserver in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | November 14, 2022 at 11:49 pm

    This race like most in competitive states was lost because of a combination of a very effective Democrat ballot gathering and counting machine and the opposition of the GOPe to the American working class and middle class (the upper middle class is Democrat of GOPe).

    This has been going on as long as I have followed politics. The Rockefeller Republicans hated Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan long before Trump was involved in politics. If you look at states like Michigan and Arizona you will find that one of the biggest obstacles are the old GOP machines like the McCain group and in Michigan with the DeVos family and the former Gov Engler. Thankfully Texas and Florida are completely done with the Connecticut patrician Bush clan. They have been grifting in those states for decades and maintaining their money machine is their primary and sometimes only motivation although some also crave the power of dispensing favors and the adoration of those followers who share in the booty.

    The silver lining in this cloud is that massive corruption and incompetence always has a shelf life. We are likely to face a massive recession in the next two years with a possibility of an energy crisis in the Northeast and upper midwest leading to power outages and massive price increases for heating oil and perhaps no heat for entire cities or counties (bonus western Europe may fair even worse in particular the lead green energy advocate Germany). Even behind the Iron Curtain the peasants finally rose up after they had endured too much abuse from the party elites.

      There is nothing in that screed that counts as true or informative and accepting it would mean we lose forever.

      Richard Nixon won 49 states

      Ronald Raegan won 49 states

      Goldwater would go on despite a landslide loss to be among the most influential men in the GOP.

      You really need to stop pretending that the voters don’t exist. The voters determine elections and they are the ones who hate Trump.

        Mauiobserver in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 2:14 pm

        Yes the people matter and the middle class and working class rejected decades of loyalty to the Democrat party since the days of FDR and elected Nixon after the debacle of LBJ’s presidency leading to carnage of crime and riots across the nation and the utter insanity of our Vietnam management and results. Nixon was hated and opposed by the GOPe as well as the media polite society largely because he was so anti communist. He was right of course as the left controlled media then as well as much of academia and much of our government institutions.

        Reagan was ridiculed by the Rockefeller Republicans for his famous ’64 speech outlining conservative and populist views. He was the perfect example of a former Democrat who had seen how the left had corrupted that party.

        The GOPe has opposed every populist politician for the past 60 years. The success of Nixon, Reagan and Trump was their direct appeal to the common man and woman, despite the ardent opposition of GOPe leaders like McCain, Romney, Bush and the like.

          Nixon was the GOP establishment, do you know what an establishment is???

          Nixon was a moderate who passed many policies that would today be called leftwing; and which you would label RINO for.

          Raegan was never a populist. He was farther to the right than Bush but that does not make you populist (please define populism before further use of the term).

          I am getting real sick of the term populist meaning “support Donald Trump”. Use of populist rhetoric only makes you a populist when you run with populist policies.

        henrybowman in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 2:40 pm

        The people hated Emmanuel Goldstein, too.
        Especially for two concerted minutes, every day.
        Why did they hat him so?
        Because they were told to. No other reason.

          I agree with Andrew Klavan he is a tragic figure. Unfortunately justified or not nobody is budging in how they feel about Trump he ultimately drives too much emotion.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | November 17, 2022 at 1:31 pm

          Then you give Democrats a perpetual heckler’s veto over your own politicians.
          Whoever you choose to represent you, Democrats simply cover him in shit, and then you say, “I can’t support this person, he’s covered in shit.”

      The pendulum swings.

      If not, the country crumbles.

        Peabody in reply to Dimsdale. | November 15, 2022 at 11:47 am

        Pendulum swings like a pendulum do
        Bobbies on bicycles, two by two
        White House screws us, again and again
        The rosy-red cheeks of the little children

retiredcantbefired | November 14, 2022 at 10:56 pm

Hobbs is mentally competent, unlike some people the “d/prog” have put out there lately, but seeing a candidate who ran an incredibly poor campaign (and refused to debate her opponent) end up winning makes me want to puke.

And, yes, that 0.5% legal limit for recounts in Arizona does need to be changed.

But surely not because polling (when the sample is a decent one, but not very large) has a margin of error of 4%.

Vote counting (tabulating ballots legally cast) is not polling (which aims at an estimate for a fairly large population from a fairly small sample).

Without either widespread incompetence or active corruption, vote counting will have some margin of error, but it will be well under .5%, whether it be done by human or machine. Besides incompetence on the part of multiple human beings or frank corruption, what could lead to even a .5% deviation from an exact count?

So if a recount is permitted when the winning margin is 1% (or greater), what’s implicitly assumed is that there might indeed have been incompetence or corruption.

Exactly what the “d/prog” and the reigning bureaucrats tell us no one must ever think affected the results of the 2020 election.

Exactly what they will, in short order, be telling us no one must ever think affected the results of the 2022 election (except in those House districts that give Republicans a wafer-thin majority, if the Republicans get a wafer-thin majority).

So is there a reason why a post by a regular LI contributor, who would like to see the 0.5% limit changed, refers, without irony, to “denying the 2020 election”?

As for the supposedly deadly Trump endorsement, killing Republican candidacies all over the country in 2022, how come Martha McSally didn’t wipe the floor with Mark Kelly in… 2020?

Expected, nobody ever thought the process was honest when they’re slow-rolling the counting process. At that point, they’re just giving themselves time to cheat.

I saw on Gab an aerial photo, showing the the democrat party in Arizona, it’s in the same building as the elections office. But the addresses show as different because they face different streets.

I don’t know if that’s true, I didn’t check a map myself, but it’s a helluva note if it is.

retiredcantbefired | November 14, 2022 at 11:07 pm

I haven’t memorized the numbers for Dubya Bush vs. Al Gore in Florida, November 2000. I’ll assume for the sake of argument that those given by Wikipedia haven’t been tampered with.

According to Wikipedia, the 537 votes separating Bush from Gore amounted to .009% of the total votes cast. At the time, some commentators noted that under the system Florida was then using, if everything was basically done right, by all the people and all the machines involved, accurate counts within .009% couldn’t be guaranteed.


You mean the person who had control over how the counting was performed and how long it went on for won? Say it aint so!

    So you think Stacy Abrams really won in 2018?!

      Juris Doctor in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 2:01 am

      Was Stacey Abrams Secretary of State? Did Abrams hold an office that presented a disqualifying conflict of interest? Because all of that is true about Hobbs.

        clintack in reply to Juris Doctor. | November 15, 2022 at 4:10 am

        Kemp, who beat Abrams, was and did.

        Milhouse in reply to Juris Doctor. | November 15, 2022 at 3:54 pm

        No, you idiot. Abrams wasn’t secretary of state. How would that make any sense? Kemp was. So according to you, Abrams must have won, and was right to insist that Kemp stole it from her.

        But of course you’re completely wrong. There was nothing wrong with Kemp being on the ballot, and therefore the same must be true of Hobbs. You cannot distinguish the two.

The Dhillon Law group had a contingent in AZ… I hope Harmeet has an explanation. I trust her.

Voter Fraud. Now it comes out the election board sponsors an anti-MAGA PAC? What the hell is going on in America?

    Milhouse in reply to puhiawa. | November 15, 2022 at 12:56 am

    No, the election board does not sponsor anything. The County Recorder and one of the County Supervisors, as private citizens, opened a PAC to support Republican candidates who don’t go on about the 2020 election being stolen. What’s wrong with that?

      gonzotx in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 2:23 am

      Meet the Maricopa County recorder…

      Stephen Richer creates PAC to back ‘pro-democracy’ Republicans (NOV 2021)

      “Republican candidates who reject the false and baseless claims that the last election was rigged may have some extra financial support in the next one, courtesy of Maricopa County Recorder Stephen Richer.

      “The PAC will run independent expenditure campaigns in favor of candidates in GOP primaries for legislative and county-level races who “acknowledge the validity of the 2020 election and condemn the events of January 6, 2021 as a terrible result of the lies told about the November election,” according to a press statement on Wednesday announcing the committee’s formation.”

        retiredcantbefired in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 10:04 am

        In other words, a PAC for Republicans who can be counted on to obey Democrats.

        Milhouse in reply to gonzotx. | November 15, 2022 at 3:58 pm

        Yes, those two individuals launched a PAC, to support Republicans, NOT to support Democrats. What’s wrong with that? How do you turn that into an indication of fraud? They are Republicans, so of course they support Republicans, just as Democrats support Democrats. I really don’t get your point here at all, unless you think county officials — elected county officials — ought not to have any political affiliations or views!!!!!

          Dimsdale in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 4:13 pm

          I am sure they do (doesn’t everyone?), but they should be professional enough that nobody could guess what it was, and it should never enter into their professional duties.

          Mauiobserver in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 10:43 pm

          Kind of like Liz and Dick Cheney supporting Republicans. Except for Cheney campaigning in Arizona against Lake and Masters.

I blame the shenanigans in Maricopa, not Lake.

I’m still baffled how the election for State Treasurer Republican Kimberly Yee got more votes (1,301,432) than either Hobbs (1,212,655) or Lake (1,187,893).

She also got more votes than any other person from either party in any race. Senator, Secretary of State, Attorney General and she beat everyone.

She beat her opponent by 258,725 votes. Also that largest vote lead by any candidate for any race in the state.

Hell, she should have run for Governor!

    Colonel Travis in reply to TheOldZombie. | November 15, 2022 at 1:13 am

    Yee wasn’t endorsed by Trump. Take that however you want.

    CommoChief in reply to TheOldZombie. | November 15, 2022 at 10:18 am

    The AZ Republicans and right leaning voters are not united. McCain loyalists, DJT loyalists, libertarians, populist right folks tired of DJT. All at odds with each other.

    Add in the rough and tumble of a smallish State where these primary candidates know each other from way back. They’ve crossed swords along the way and resentment builds over the years. People hold a grudge.

    This is how it actually works. Petty feuds and selfishness interfere with the goal. Putting a r into office.

Every time we turn our heads the other way when we see the law flouted, when we tolerate what we know to be wrong, when we close our eyes and ears to the corrupt because we are too busy or too frightened, when we fail to speak up and speak out, we strike a blow against freedom and decency
and justice.

• Robert Kennedy

Ballots will beat votes if you allow them if you count them long enough

So, a victory by 21 thousand ballots (or 10.5 thousand ballots flipping).

How many election-day ballots were bundled into bags and sent to a central location to be counted later because ballot-reading machines weren’t functioning?

When the margin of victory is smaller than the number of ballots that are known to have been handled using procedures that were made up on the spot when things weren’t working on election day, it’s not a good look.

    henrybowman in reply to clintack. | November 15, 2022 at 2:51 pm

    “using procedures that were made up on the spot when things weren’t working on election day”
    All those “box threes” didn’t just show up by themselves.

While you guys are busy rationalizing why switching sides to join the Uniparty is the way to go, thank God there are fighters who are not willing to wait for the “long game” to pay off.…or-they-are-shutting-it-down.html?mc_cid=75da5d0fed&mc_eid=UNIQID

FWIW, I’m outta here. Quit in the middle of a major battle? Not me and I’m not wasting any more of my time here. What LI needs is more testosterone.

Tea Party is still alive and so is MAGA. Good luck with filing lawsuits while we are losing our votes.

    Hear!! Hear!!!

      wendybar earlier wrote: “There is a reason Trump won,”

      Umm, I guess I don’t get the part about Trump “winning.” He lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. He lost the popular vote to Joe Biden. He lost the election to Joe Biden. His interference in Georgia resulted in the U.S. Senate being controlled by the Democrats. His support in crucial elections in 2022 helped defeat Republicans, like Kari Lake. Maybe Trump will make a really huuuge announcement today so he can keep on “winning.”

    I think people need to realize that an “election” is more like an “employee hiring day”, as in we the people are hiring these people to work in gov to run the country according to the will of we the people. They work for US, not the other way around. The whole system needs a top to bottom overhaul.

    There will be no new election in Arizona.

    The people of Arizona have spoken; no more pretending we won elections we lost They do not like Trump and they do not like the steal narrative. Enough is enough. I do not want to donate more elections to the Democrats.

      retiredcantbefired in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 10:13 am

      Maybe you’ll find your own way to donate elections to the Democrats.

      It’s true that badly conducted elections can’t be undone.

      It would be nice to know whether the people of Arizona have spoken, but we don’t know whether they really have or not.

      That’s where trust in elections has gone in this country.

        Karri Lake was losing on election night and never caught up. Blake Masters was losing badly the entire count.

        Arizona has spoken it screamed enough election 2020 trutherism we don’t like Trump.

        The Arizona of the 20th century no longer exists it is a swing state; if you deny that you might as well pretend the Vermont of the 20th century still exists.

        Brian Kemp had a great night this election.

        We need more Brian Kemps and less Blake Masters. I want to win.

          Ironclaw in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 1:57 pm

          You won’t win that way. They’ll just bend over the first time the communists call them a racist and then you’ll end up losing anyhow.

      henrybowman in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 2:53 pm

      No, you just want to hire more Democrats who wear Republican cosplay.

    Phil, what’s really happening is this: we’ve lost our country, and it’s permanent. The ‘genius’ of the American people existed in a time long gone. The left’s media and schools – and their vassals in the GOPe – have succeeded.

    The new argument really should be about secession, before it’s illegal to argue at all.

    I predict we’ll see some form of martial law in the US before 2024.

    scooterjay in reply to Pasadena Phil. | November 15, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    Clap clap clap clap clappity clap clap clappa clap clap!

Wow, and Hobbs counted the votes.

Disappointing to see LI doing its part to brand MAGA as toxic.

    Any political movement/party will have toxicity issues from those who go radical or hijack the the tenants of the party.

      nordic prince in reply to Mt. Fuji. | November 15, 2022 at 12:43 pm

      What do renters have to do with anything?

      Seriously, though, it’s sad when a simple proposition such as American exceptionalism is considered a “radical” hijacking of the Republican party.

        healthguyfsu in reply to nordic prince. | November 15, 2022 at 1:48 pm

        It’s not…false equivalence.

        Every election is stolen, everyone is out to get us, I’m your one savior from all the bad people…..that’s a radical hijacking.

      scooterjay in reply to Mt. Fuji. | November 15, 2022 at 3:53 pm

      …except the Democrats

The decline of the country continues in lockstep with its feminization. Not one disastrous president or senator would have been elected in our modern history if women were not permitted to vote. Although there are millions of brilliant sensible woman it is a public policy disaster to allow them to vote. These flash in the pan babes would never be nominated, but for the woman’s vote. This is a hard, solid fact.

    Wow. Try running on a campaign that promises to take away a woman’s right to vote. Unreal. I’m not sure a Neanderthal would even propose that.

      E Howard Hunt in reply to JR. | November 15, 2022 at 11:13 am

      The republic is dead. Unfettered democracy where dizzy dames, children, foreigners, felons and wards of the state vote in the direct election of senators is a one way trip to totalitarianism.

      nordic prince in reply to JR. | November 15, 2022 at 1:19 pm

      He’s not wrong.

    We might have had a lot of different problems, though. Maybe a different president or senator would have been disastrous in a different way. And, practically, even if you were right, removing a woman’s right to vote is never going to happen because, well, women get to vote and make up more than half of our population.

Absolutely disgusted with these criminals and robots that call themselves senators and members of congress. They clearly are not in it for the people and it should make you feel beyond livid. They are nothing but compromised losers. They all drink the kool-aid that tastes the best and have turned this country into an outhouse. Most doctors have violated their hippocratic oaths with bogus narrative Covid treatments, the CDC is a fraud and soon the WHO will be in control. Most importantly young people have no wisdom to understand what is happening and avoid confrontations like the plague. BTW,, If anyone has faith in this country’s current election process they are morons. Voting has turned into a joke and this country has turned into a third world laugh-a-thon. Its time to walk the walk people!

Christy Smith concedes to Mike Garcia in CA27, Giving Republicans control of the House with 218 seats

Been thinking about this quite a bit.

Right now nearly half of the country doesn’t think Biden’s win was legitimate, including Biden’s own supporters. That’s not a country, that’s a time bomb.

Complaining that there’s insufficient evidence or that all the court cases where thrown out due to lack of standing is not going to move that needle at all.

That’s what the whole world has been doing for the last two years. Why would anyone think it will work this time?

The only solution, if you want a country to pass on to your kids, is to either prove definitively beyond any reasonable doubt that the election was free and fair (unlikely considering the same things happened last cycle and no-one believes it was legit), or force changes so that the next one is.

Sitting around complaining that Fetterman was clearly a higher quality candidate than Lake isn’t going to get you there.

    Danny in reply to Voyager. | November 15, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    You put no thought into any of that all you did was repackage something you already thought and say it while trying to put in an introduction about how profound you are. Furthermore everything you just said is a lie.

    1. No half the country DOES NOT believe Biden stole the election stop the lying. This country just had a vote and it screamed as loudly as it could that just isn’t true. Brian Kemp easily surfed to re-election while Mastriano died miserably. It isn’t just not half the country you claimed you claimed Biden’s own supporters another country. While it isn’t uncommon among Republican Primary voters among the general population nobody thinks 2020 was stolen.

    2. All of Trump’s election cases got heard by a judge and got thrown out with massive and lengthy JUDICIAL DECISIONS. Trump told lies when he claimed his cases got thrown out without a hearing. A lie; a lie he knew wasn’t true. No a judge giving you a decision determining that because your allegation does not include fraud and even if true it doesn’t allege any grounds for overturning the election (of which fraud is frankly the only one) is not a lack of standing case. I have quoted Trump’s getting kicked out of court often enough that yes he was heard.

    3. Your narrative certainly tells people it isn’t worth their time to vote. Yes your narrative does suggest that. Maybe instead of a narrative designed to help Democrats you could instead stop nominating bad candidates.

    4. Demand we prove a negative? How about you prove a positive which is much easier? You can’t point to a time when Karri Lake was leading during the vote count because no such point exists. Neither can you point to Dr. Oz leading.

    5. Fetterman remained in his basement during a large portion of the voting process at which point he was leading. A man who runs against Trump in a state Trump lost is at an advantage. A man or woman who runs as Trump in a state Trump lost is at a disadvantage

    6. Candidate quality has to make up for the following

    Big Tech Censorship

    Dem control of Academia

    Dem control of all of the American institutions

    Total control of media

    Sorry but you can’t compare Dem to Rep candidates. You are either dishonest or moronic to do so. Democrat candidates have massive advantages at the start. If they are equal the Democrats win. Nominate bad candidates? We will lose as a result.

    By the way charisma helps but it can’t overcome being a bad candidate. If you are a stop the steal person fighting for 2020 voters will reject you the results of this midterm couldn’t be clearer.

      jhkrischel in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 12:37 pm

      As unfair as it is, elections are guilty until proven innocent.

      Our elections desperately need credibility.

        Ironclaw in reply to jhkrischel. | November 15, 2022 at 2:09 pm

        Our elections have no credibility, nor should they.

          CommoChief in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 2:20 pm

          They do in Alabama where I live. Do a better job of election reform if your State has strayed from traditional voting methods.

          Your elections may in fact be suspect. Some of us played attention and kept out the shenanigans in our States. You must do the same. Less talk more action.

          jhkrischel in reply to Ironclaw. | November 15, 2022 at 2:35 pm

          @CommoChief – I agree completely. #FixCheatingFirst, and many free states have good examples of how to do it right.

      henrybowman in reply to Danny. | November 15, 2022 at 3:00 pm

      “1. No half the country DOES NOT believe Biden stole the election stop the lying.”

      41% is still a pretty damning number.

      “This country just had a vote and it screamed as loudly as it could that just isn’t true.”

      “A vote” proves that another vote wasn’t stolen? What claim could be more stupid?

        Dimsdale in reply to henrybowman. | November 15, 2022 at 4:28 pm

        If the methods and materials of any election are so questionable that the integrity of the election is doubted, then the government has not done its job.

        Transparency should answer any questions of voting validity. We are not seeing that. Any citizen should be able to tap into the vote count feed and observe the process to their satisfaction. Instead, we have blocked windows, closed off spaces and ejected observers.

        Play your political shenanigans after the election, but by screwing with the election process, everything is put into question and doubt.

        Not the foundation for a strong government, no matter who controls it at the time.

        If the razor thin margin Ron Johnson won re-election by is outside of the margin of cheating so to was every single 2020 election so yes it does.

        We picked a slate of horrible candidates who campaigned on an issue they are wrong about, the public as you just demonstrated stands against them on, and doesn’t think is an issue anyway.’

        We won Grand Rapids 2020 we lost it this time. We won Washington 3 last time; we lost it this time. I could go on; the list of underperformances are all by stop the steal people.

        Stop deluding yourself we lost.

          henrybowman in reply to Danny. | November 17, 2022 at 1:46 pm

          “Horrible candidates?”
          As bad as Doctor Oz may have been, no one will ever convince me that he was not preferable to an obvious mental vegetable.
          People dod not vote for the candidates. They voted for the party DESPITE the candidates.

          It would be interesting to know if a better fit for PA would have done better, even won? Maybe someone who was actually from PA? /just a thought

        By the way I have been trying to warn people that the clown show of rejecting elections we lose costs us future elections and I am very sorry I was proven right.

        I am sick to death of losing.

        Lets join Glenn Youngkin and start winning by dropping conspiracy theories and taking up things people actually care about.

Elections are guilty, until proven innocent.

People misunderstand the purpose of an election. It’s not to figure out who won – it’s to get the losers to believe that they honestly lost.

An election that is not credible, regardless of whether or not it *was* honest, isn’t doing its job.

Yes, maybe I can’t prove you actually had sex with the hooker, but I’ve got your credit card bill, I saw you both walk into the room, I saw you come out disheveled 15 minutes later, and there was a condom wrapper left on the floor, and you could hear the toilet refilling after the flush.

Sure, you could have just went in there, done 100 pushups to get disheveled, used the condom to build a balloon animal, and paid the nice young lady for her balloon animal artwork….but, really? That’s the story?

Our elections aren’t doing their job in many places across this country. And this needs to be fixed, more than any other thing. Election credibility is more important than inflation, transing the kids, and even nuclear war.

But anyone who won with the current election system has no incentive to change it to be more credible. We need to find ways to motivate them.

    CommoChief in reply to jhkrischel. | November 15, 2022 at 1:12 pm

    Stop. Not every State has the new style ‘mail a ballot to everyone and let someone else turn it in’ format.

    In the States where that does exist it’s up to the people who live there to fix it. Start with cleaning up the voter registration list.

    I hate it for the folks in jurisdictions where this less than transparent and vulnerable to fraud system was put into place.

    I live in Alabama. We don’t have that crap. We didn’t take our eye off the ball. We didn’t become complacent. We have R as Gov, AG LT Gov, both US Senators, 6/7 HoR and substantial majorities in the legislature.

    We did our job in Alabama. We turned a d/prog dominated State Red and kept it that way. It’s time for folks in other States to get busy and start working to do the same. No one is coming to save you.

    healthguyfsu in reply to jhkrischel. | November 15, 2022 at 1:52 pm

    You’re repeating the same BS here again.

    I’ll ask you again from your previous rant. What do you consider 100% election transparency? The only way to have 100% would be to publicly list the final tally with everyone’s name and who they voted for so they could be verified.

    That’s not a road I’d like to go down, and most people who aren’t crazy cancel leftists probably wouldn’t either.

      jhkrischel in reply to healthguyfsu. | November 15, 2022 at 2:34 pm

      1) signature match images available for public audit
      2) ballot images available for public audit
      3) chain of custody forms available for public audit
      4) open source of all voting machine code
      5) financial and criminal penalties for election officials who accept fraudulent votes (and whitehat attempts to send in fraudulent votes as tests)
      6) zero “ballot curing” – unreliable voting methods cannot be made “reliable” without opening them up to fraud.

      That’s where I’d start. Others may have other ideas.

      I get it – the requirement for anonymous ballots makes this a hard problem. But right now, I can hardly think of a less credible system than those used on some states, and I can hardly think of more credible systems than those used in Florida.

        Milhouse in reply to jhkrischel. | November 15, 2022 at 3:07 pm

        I agree to most of those things, but not your opposition to curing errors on absentee ballots. There is no way that can lead to fraud; on the contrary, it reduces fraud. If someone shows up to fix an error on their ballot, it means they are a real registered voter, and that they actually voted.

        Now if you want to prevent stupid people from voting, I agree. Congress made a big mistake when it banned literacy tests, and it should repeal that ban. States should be allowed and encouraged to reintroduce them, with very strict oversight to make sure they are never again abused as they were in the dark ages, which led to their banning.

        But giving absentee voters the same chance to fix errors that in-person voters have always had? That’s just common sense.

          alaskabob in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 3:16 pm

          Would required Civics courses in high school also help? Can one imagine the uproar over literacy tests considering the soft bigotry of low expectations on that. It is sad that people seeking US citizenship have to know more about this country than the citizens who directly benefited from citizenship?

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 4:06 pm

          I don’t trust required civics courses, because they’d inevitably be taught by CRT-believing Marxists. Just perfectly objective literacy tests. Or Robert Heinlein’s suggestion that to vote you should have to first solve a quadratic equation generated on the spot. Not everyone knows how to do this now, but if it were a requirement to vote, everyone who ought to be allowed to vote would easily learn how. Civic organizations like the NAACP could give classes to teach people how to do it. The idea is to filter out those who can’t learn, even after being taught.

          jhkrischel in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 4:16 pm

          Curing errors on absentee ballots can be done with prejudice. If you’re going to allow curing, the person in charge of the curing should have zero information that can identify the type of vote that it might be. This is particularly difficult if you can reliably understand someone’s vote based solely on their precinct. I’m not sure if there’s any way to “blind” this process sufficiently to avoid gaming.

          Absentee voting is unreliable. Unreliable voting methods will occasionally be unreliable. Fixing absentee voting errors is inherently more expensive and subject to fraud than fixing in-person voting errors.

          Dimsdale in reply to Milhouse. | November 15, 2022 at 4:34 pm

          Then everybody should get to “cure” their ballots after the fact to be fair.

          Of course, doing so, even in the limited fashion that AZ does it, completely destroys the anonymous ballot and opens another can of worms for harassment.

          How hard is it to get it right the first time??

    Does that include Ron Johnson?

    If a Democrat declares because his race was so razor thin it is guilty until proven innocent did he stuff the ballot box?

    Just stop it just stop.

    For heavens sake you sacrificed a red wave in order to shout 2020 was stolen. Just stop.

    If we had retaken the senate all of Biden’s judicial nominees would be dead in the water just stop

    If we had taken the house with a margin of error all of Biden’s legislation would be definitely dead and we wouldn’t have to worry about congressmen who won by double digits surrendering just stop

    Just stop, if you are tempted to surrender future elections just remember Biden appreciates your efforts on his behalf so just stop.

    We need more Brian Kemp candidates and fewer Blake Masters.

Question asked and answered.

LI doesn’t report on stolen elections for the same reason Fox news doesn’t report on stolen elections,

And it is not because elections aren’t stolen.

Legal Insurrection. Sure.

I wonder…are these mythical independent voters insulated from the misery of the Biden administration?

If so, how?

    Dimsdale in reply to scooterjay. | November 15, 2022 at 4:36 pm

    It has been said that 70+% of the country is displeased with the direction we are taking (economy, border, abortion etc.)

    Why in God’s name would anyone vote for the very people responsible for your huge fuel bills, shortages and a border invasion??

    The definition of insanity comes to mind here…

So NBC news which is totally Non-biased, has reconciled that the 12% of under 29’s won the election for Hobbs who pulled a Biden by hiding in he basement? I’m sure we can trust NBC!