Most Read
Image 01 Image 02 Image 03

LIVE: Rittenhouse Trial Day 7

LIVE: Rittenhouse Trial Day 7

Energized defense enters second day presenting its case of self-defense to the jury

Welcome back to our ongoing live coverage of the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle is charged with a variety of felonies, including first-degree murder, for shooting three men, two fatally, as well as for alleged reckless conduct on the night of August 25, 2020, in riot-torn Kenosha WI.

You can find our commentary and analysis of yesterday’s trial proceedings here:  Rittenhouse Trial Day 6: State’s Autopsy Expert Supports Self-Defense Narrative In Another Disastrous Prosecution Day

As usual, you can follow our live streaming of today’s court proceedings as well as our live, real-time commenting of courtroom testimony and argument as it occurs, right here.

LIVE STREAM

LIVE COMMENT

And don’t forget to join us this evening for our usual plain English legal analysis and commentary of the day’s proceedings, along with the courtroom video of it all.

Remember

You carry a gun so you’re hard to kill.

Know the law so you’re hard to convict.

Stay safe!

–Andrew

Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LLC

Nothing in this content constitutes legal advice. Nothing in this content establishes an attorney-client relationship, nor confidentiality. If you are in immediate need of legal advice, retain a licensed, competent attorney in the relevant jurisdiction.

 

 

DONATE

Donations tax deductible
to the full extent allowed by law.

Comments


Binger needs to be held in contempt and sent to jail.

    Prosecutor is trying out for CNN and MSNBC.

      aramissebastian in reply to Neo. | November 10, 2021 at 1:04 pm

      If this is his coming out party on the national scene, it’s not going so well. LOL.

      The problem he’s got with all this messing around he’s doing is the jury is likely to say to themselves, “Oh, that’s all you got?,” and it actually helps the defense.

      I thought the kid nailed it on his direct, and is holding up well on cross, ineffective as it may be.

      I think the kid’s got a good shot with the jury. If I’m the defense, I don’t want a mis-trial, unless I’m certain, which they can’t be, that the DA won’t seek another trial.

      And for all you out there clamoring for a directed verdict, that’s not double jeopardy and can be appealed, whereas, a verdict of not guilty can’t.

        The SCOTUS in Evans v. Michigan disagrees with your opinion that a Directed Verdict of Acquittal does not involve the Constitution’s bar to “double jeopardy”. In Evans the trial judge erred in granting the directed verdict of acquittal, and yet the SCOTUS:

        “Held: The Double Jeopardy Clause bars retrial for Evans’ offense. Pp. 4−17.

        (a) Retrial following a court-decreed acquittal is barred, even if the acquittal is “based upon an egregiously erroneous foundation,” Fong Foo v. United States, 369 U. S. 141 , such as an erroneous decision to exclude evidence, Sanabria v. United States, 437 U. S. 54 −69; a mistaken understanding of what evidence would suffice to sustain a conviction, Smith v. Massachusetts, 543 U. S. 462 ; or a “misconstruction of the statute” defining the requirements to convict, Arizona v. Rumsey, 467 U. S. 303 . Most relevant here, an acquittal encompasses any ruling that the prosecution’s proof is insufficient to establish criminal liability for an offense. See, e.g., United States v. Scott, 437 U. S. 82 ; Burks v. United States, 437 U. S. 1 . In contrast to procedural rulings, which lead to dismissals or mistrials on a basis unrelated to factual guilt or innocence, acquittals are substantive rulings that conclude proceedings absolutely, and thus raise significant double jeopardy concerns. Scott, 437 U. S., at 91. Here, the trial court clearly “evaluated the [State’s] evidence and determined that it was legally insufficient to sustain a conviction.” United States v. Martin Linen Supply Co., 430 U. S. 564 . Evans’ acquittal was the product of an erroneous interpretation of governing legal principles, but that error affects only the accuracy of the determination to acquit, not its essential character. See Scott, 437 U. S., at 98. Pp. 4−6. “

        Problem is, most of the people on the jury already have their minds made up. Coupled with the fact that people in the courtroom are taking photos of the jury and will show up at their houses if they decide not guilty… it’s not looking great for Kyle

It’s impossible for Binger to not know he has crossed serious lines. What is the logical reason for it?

where the F is Binger going with his stupid questions?

Binger is wandering in the dark. what an ass.

Why is Binger focusing on the Black house? What is the relevancy of this?

What is Binger doing with the bullet characterization? He clearly knows nothing, but neither, apparently does KR, about rifle bullet types.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to LetsGoBrandon. | November 10, 2021 at 1:01 pm

    Yeah, if there’s a hunter on the jury, the hunter will say “No, we definitely do use hollowpoints (soft-tip) to hunt deer. This kid REALLY doesn’t know anything”.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to LetsGoBrandon. | November 10, 2021 at 1:07 pm

    Actually, it’s apparently required to use expanding ammunition in Wisconsin. From the Wisconsin State Deer Hunting Guide thing: It is illegal to: • hunt deer with ammunition loaded with non-expanding type bullets

    fishstick in reply to LetsGoBrandon. | November 10, 2021 at 1:08 pm

    reading all this second-hand, seems Binger is trying to establish relevancy as it pertains to the recklessness charge as the defendant was an “experienced shooter” and thus came vs the Kenosha rioters more over-prepared than he should have been

    it wasn’t a fair fight, you know, having this kid show the world guts of steel – and moreso calm resolve – in the situation he got in that night

    now perhaps KR was simply lucky, but this prosecutor is hell-bent on going through each wacky reasoning why Rittenhouse prevailed vs the liberal mob

    thus him being a “gamer”, “experienced ammo expert”, etc …

    I’m sure Binger will get to GI Joe wannabe near the end of it

      Think38 in reply to fishstick. | November 10, 2021 at 1:53 pm

      He is laying ground work to suggest by using FMJ, he created an unreasonable hazard when he loaded FMJ instead of hollow point. He is trying to suggest a FMJ round will travel much farther than a hollow point round.

Binger: Hollowpoint designed to hit deer and explode inside that body.

Kyle: I don’t think so.

——

Kyle just took the a-hole to school.

Here goes the judge again…

Midfiaudiophile | November 10, 2021 at 12:59 pm

Binger’s really going for this reckless endangerment of McGinniss thing. I think he’s trying to argue that overpenetration could have caused injury to bystanders… which didn’t happen? In theory?

How is there not innate reasonable doubt there about whether or not Kyle was paying attention to his backstop?

    RandomCrank in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | November 10, 2021 at 1:08 pm

    It would make sense if there had been overpenetration, which there wasn’t.

    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | November 10, 2021 at 1:09 pm

    Well, Kyle admitted he didn’t know McGinnis was there at the point he shot Rosenbaum, so he’s basically admitted not being fully aware of his surroundings.

    Which is of course irrelevant. You don’t have to let someone kill you because preventing them may cause a risk to others.

    The defence will I’m sure remind the jury that two of these scary full metal jacket penetrating rounds didn’t pass through Rosenbaum at all, and were recovered from within his body.

    Not in Andrew’s (excellent) commentary is that the call for lunch interrupted Binger arguing with the judge _again_. The judge keeps getting accused of bias by people astonished at him applying the law but he’s so very clearly doing his best to allow the trial to progress despite what I would class prosecutor misconduct. The judge is basically giving an object lesson in how to apply the law and run a trial.

I guess “Full Metal Jacket” (aka FMJ) bullets are baaad because there was a film by that name. This Bungler is an idiot.

    henrybowman in reply to WestRock. | November 10, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    It’s true, compared to hollow-points, FMJ (round-nosed) bullets are less likely to remain within the intended target, and more likely to overpenetrate and damage something beyond. Exactly the way Baldwin’s round-nosed bullet went right through the director and struck the cameraman.

    Which is precisely why the People’s Republic of New Jersey outlaws the carry of hollowpoints by citizens, requiring them to use round-nose ammo instead.
    For “saaaaaaafety!”

    Understand now? Now put your mask back on and follow orders.

      As a general rule non-hollowpoint bullets do penetrate more vs. hollowpoint bullets. And Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) bullets penetrate a greater distance than round nose lead bullets. They are considered less “damaging” than hollow point (HP) or plain lead bullets and are required to be used in military actions.

      That being said, all bets are off with .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO ammunition. The velocity of the round (US issue GI ammunition is >3000 feet per second – FPS) causes a significant degree of hydraulic damage to tissue and even the FMJ bullets tend to tumble in soft tissue. The .223/5,56mm bullets, whether FMJ or HP rarely survive contact with any somewhat hard object (e.g. dirt, rock, bone) intact. Not an absolute rule, but they tend to disintegrate rather than continue on to cause havoc elsewhere.

      alaskabob in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 4:51 pm

      The key is “expanding” versus “non-espanding”. The modern day conventional hunting bullet with exposed lead tip was created in India at the Dum Dum Arsenal. The ammunition before that was non-expanding and sailed through the hostile natives. The expanding bullet increased in diameter, and imparted more tissue damage and “shock”. This was considered unsporting and so the Hague Convention outlawed them. So.. what to go? The British created a bullet, stable in flight, but would tumble in the person. (303 Mark VII) This tumbling just buzzsawed through someone… the tumbling also slows the bullet and may not over-penetrate. The M-16 bullet was originally 55 grains and would tumble in tissue. Added to that was the higher velocity which created larger temporary and permanent wound cavities. The 223 is a varmint class round. Think of humans as larger soft varmints. Defense can show that FMJ are more “humane” per international agreements.

Worse than Nifong.

Nifong Jr

Binger trying for the reckless charge.

I would think the judge would stop this questioning and instruct Binger to get a firearms expert up there to establish what he wants the jury to know. Thing is , Binger wants the jury to know what HE TELLS THEM , not the truth they would get from a firearms expert.

    RabidMongoose in reply to sdharms. | November 10, 2021 at 2:02 pm

    Correct. I’m assuming had they been serious about this, he would have purchased an identical rifle, identical ammo, along with hollow-points, and fired them into realistic dummies from point blank range to measure & compare different penetration levels. Surely they’ve done this? And if they have, there’s only one reason they didn’t present it. If they haven’t, that’s on them.

Where is Binger going with this?

Russ from Winterset | November 10, 2021 at 1:04 pm

Binger prior to Kyle’s cross:. “I wonder if everyone watching this trial realizes what a massive douchebag I am. What can I do to finally convince them?”

Has Binger given up on the murder charges and now is fighting to keep the reckless endangerment charge alive? Making up “facts” about how different bullet types work doesn’t seem to help him there.

    Elzorro in reply to KPOM1. | November 10, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    He is going to go on and on and on for days. Non stop drivel trying to wear Kyle out and get him to make 1 slip he can pound on and on and on.

Russ from Winterset | November 10, 2021 at 1:07 pm

Defense should object to questions about suitability of hollow points for deer hunting. Almost every state in the union designates the 5.56/.223 as insufficient for hunting deer. The point is irrelevant.

I can’t believe what I’m watching.

I think it was a mistake to put Kyle on the stand but damn if Binger isn’t trying his best to get the judge to declare a mistrial.

    Exactly. Binger wants another bite at the apple to undo his mistakes in this trial. I think the judge is disinclined to save him with a sua sponte ruling.

Colonel Travis | November 10, 2021 at 1:13 pm

We are seeing in real time how vile these prosecutors are. We could see that indirectly with the case being brought to court, but this trial opens our eyes to how disgusting these pricks are.

Binger ,is an elitist. His cross of Rittenhouse oozes contempt for the values of flyover America.

Russ from Winterset | November 10, 2021 at 1:15 pm

At this point, Binger might welcome a mistrial. Hope judge doesn’t give him one that allows the state another bite at the apple.

Matt Foley-Kraus is on his second Dominos pizza right about now.

The Pedant-General | November 10, 2021 at 1:17 pm

My worry is that KR is on the record picking up a weapon he believes not only to be loaded but actually chambered without checking and making safe.

That is a) literally incredible and b) insanely dangerous. That alone is strong evidence of being reckless. It doesn’t make sense – it’s completely inconsistent with his astonishing fire discipline and obvious adherence to fire discipline.

I mean, he took a loaded _chambered_ rifle with him in a car? Hit a bump and you can have an ND. Madness

    The Pedant-General in reply to The Pedant-General. | November 10, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    second one should read “Trigger discipline”

    Russ from Winterset in reply to The Pedant-General. | November 10, 2021 at 1:20 pm

    The AR-15 has a safety. Perhaps he replied on that?

    I don’t agree. If someone gives me a self-defense firearm and tells me “this gun is loaded and chambered,” the only reason I might check it is to ensure that he is right — that the gun will go bang when I expect it to go bang, and not leave me standing there with my junk in my hand.
    It’s no more dangerous than concealed carry. Do you unload your carry pistol every time you get in your car in case you might hit a bump? I don’t, and I don’t know anybody who does.

      AnAdultInDiapers in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 1:32 pm

      No, but I don’t know anybody sensible that leaves a round in the chamber of their pistol while in a non-threatening situation.

      It’s just idiocy.

      Rittenhouse has basically just demonstrated that he needs a proper firearms safety course, because his behaviour is risky. I don’t know if it’s reckless or not but I will say that it doesn’t justify convictions for the charges of reckless behaviour – his inadequately stored firearm that was driven around dangerously did not cause the two incidents in question, those were intentional uses of the firearm to prevent serious attacks against him.

        Colonel Travis in reply to AnAdultInDiapers. | November 10, 2021 at 1:38 pm

        Huh?

        Many people have rounds in the chamber at all times. I do, everyone I know who carries does. There is nothing not sensible about it, unless you are an absolute basket case about doing so, and at that point why are you carrying? When I first started carrying I did not. I was nervous. The more I got comfortable with carrying and proficient with my gun, the more I thought about the advantages vs. disadvantages, it persuaded me to leave one chambered always.

        henrybowman in reply to AnAdultInDiapers. | November 10, 2021 at 1:55 pm

        I consider myself sensible. I use the same gun for home and carry defense. I have no young children and no one in my home who isn’t qualified. Leaving the gun as it is all the time is way safer than loading and unloading it every day, a recipe for discharge.

          AnAdultInDiapers in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 2:13 pm

          I’m sorry, we appear to be using different terminology.

          A weapon can be loaded without having a round in the chamber.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 4:28 pm

          Unless you are a fan of “Israeli carry” (and I’m not), you carry with one in the chamber.
          If Kyle had carried Israeli, he’s be dead.

        RandomCrank in reply to AnAdultInDiapers. | November 10, 2021 at 2:12 pm

        I carry a Sig P365 with a round in the chamber. No reason not to.

        Carried a 1911 in Condition 1/locked and cocked for years (that is mag in, round chambered, hammer back and frame safety on for those that don’t speak Col Cooper…no NDs and the only time I cleared was when the weapon was outside my reach or transfer of possession. ND’s in an AR? Absent badly loaded ammo (standard thin cup primer…never used on AR ammo) plus dropping the BCG on a bad round hand-loaded into the chamber (1/10,000 assuming you somehow found rounds loaded by an idiot), will never happen. ND’s with an AR happen because idiots can’t keep their booger hook off the trigger and fail to use the safety. Locked and loaded AR in vehicle? I’d safe it and roll…you should always expect enemy contact unless you have perfect intel (hint: there is NO SUCH THING AS PERFECT INTEL).

          txvet2 in reply to SFFLYER. | November 10, 2021 at 3:48 pm

          Yeah, a friend used to carry his 1911 the same way. He accidentally dropped it and nearly bled to death before somebody got him to the hospital.

          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to SFFLYER. | November 10, 2021 at 4:57 pm

          I cannot fathom a 1911 discharging if dropped with safety engaged. It’s a very robust safety. It also has the hand-grip safety. Your friend likely did not have the safety engaged.

        I’ve carried a concealed weapon (pistol(s)) for 35+ years. I never, repeat NEVER, have one with a round NOT chambered. Every gun I own has a round in the chamber. The one on my hip, the ones in soft storage, every one of them, with the exception of my 9mm S&W which is on the top of my desk with a laser-bullet because my home office has a laser target range.

        A firearm without a round chambered is an expensive, unwieldy rock.

        You can feel free to not have one chambered, and even lock your ammo away from it if you want. It’s your life. But the vast, vast majority of people who carry for self-defense have one in the chamber.

      The Pedant-General in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 1:36 pm

      Ok – this is a very different practice and I recognise the difference with the routine carrying of sidearms for self-defence which is simply not a thing in the UK.

      For ref, I still have and use a shotgun for what we call “game” shooting (pheasant and duck) and yes: I would unload every time I got into a vehicle. Or crossed a fence. Or handed my gun to someone else.

      I would expect to be given a stiff talking to if anyone with me saw me fail to do this.

        And we do exactly the same with sporting firearms. Because they are not needed to be kept “ready” for self-defense.
        Kyle wasn’t going to a sporting event.

          AnAdultInDiapers in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 2:15 pm

          You do not need a round in the chamber to be “ready” for “self-defence”.

          The occasions on which the extra less-than-a-second needed to chamber a round would be the difference between life and death are heavily and substantially outnumbered by the occasions on which some clown shoots themself or someone else by accident.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 4:31 pm

          And if you’re watching this case, you’re looking at one.

          AnAdultInDiapers in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 6:18 pm

          Oh ffs. We’re talking about a gun held in storage, with a round in the chamber, then transported in a vehicle, with a round in the chamber, and more generally, being carried by all of you with a round in the chamber while facing no threat at all.

          I’m so sorry that sheer common sense and a healthy lack of paranoia are so alien to you all.

    It’s not a good practice, for sure, and in some states, perhaps all or most, it is unlawful to transport a loaded long gun in a vehicle, but there is a safe/fire selector switch on the side of the receiver which I presume was in the ‘safe’ position.

      The Pedant-General in reply to OnePingOnly. | November 10, 2021 at 1:31 pm

      ok – I’m UK so quite possible that practice is different in US. But to me, that’s really really surprising. I know we do firearms differently here, but that would give me the willys –

      What we _do_ know is that he was told to go and get it, picked it up and told us that he did not know what state it was in. That’s just really sloppy practice.

      (Disclosure – served (briefly) in UK reserves. Skill at arms instructor on FN-FAL (called SLR by British Army) and SA80 in its first version. )

    Hit a bump and you can have an ND.
    Only if they also didn’t secure the weapon and there was something around to pull the trigger as it bounced.

      c_programmer in reply to GWB. | November 10, 2021 at 1:28 pm

      The AR15 has a floating firing pin and the pin can strike the bullet if the gun is bumped. The proper way to transport an AR15 is to have an empty chamber.

        It can, but it has very little mass, so the impact would have to be very substantial to set off a primer.
        It’s still best practices to transport with an empty chamber, but it’s not imminent danger or anything.

          OnePingOnly in reply to Sian. | November 10, 2021 at 1:44 pm

          This. It’s very light firing pin. Unless one is using ammo with very soft primers, I can’t imagine a bump during a car ride causing a ND.

        Really? So if I slap the butt of my AR-15 against my thigh it can send a round downrange? Is this somehow different from the M-16/M-4?

        The proper way to transport ANY weapon is unloaded. But that wasn’t what I objected to.

          c_programmer in reply to GWB. | November 10, 2021 at 1:49 pm

          No, slapping the butt of the gun will send the firing pin backwards. You have to slam the gun in a direction where the firing pin goes towards the bullet… An object that is in motion will remain in motion, so when the rifle is brought to a stop the firing pin will continue forward. It takes a lot of force but is mechanically possible (in practice it would probably take a car crash to actually make a bullet go off). The M16/M4 is the same. That is why everyone like police who carry a gun in their car keep the chamber empty and bring it out of transport mode and into carry mode only when carrying it.

          This is in contrast to a Glock which has the firing pin out of position until the trigger is depressed.

          “No, slapping the butt of the gun will send the firing pin backwards. You have to slam the gun in a direction where the firing pin goes towards the bullet…”

          Hahahahahahaaaa…. mwuh-hahahahahahahaa. Snicker. Hehe. Giggle.

          Stick to coding or whatever it is you are doing.

          c_programmer in reply to GWB. | November 10, 2021 at 4:36 pm

          “Hahahahahahaaaa…. mwuh-hahahahahahahaa. Snicker. Hehe. Giggle.”

          It takes some real work to be the worst arguer on a day where Binger is working…

          All what I’m explaining takes to understand is a basic knowledge of physics (ie an object in motion stays in motion) and a knowledge of what the BCG looks like. This is all covered in any AR intro course. Sorry if I went over your head.

    c_programmer in reply to The Pedant-General. | November 10, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    While I agree he was not exercising proper gun safety, it is not relevant to this case. He is not being charged with unsafely transporting a gun — the recklessness he is being charged with requires specific actions that just didn’t happen (by the states witness accounts and videos). Just more smoke and mirrors the state is trying to throw up to get the jury to consider everything but the facts.

    Hey Elmer Fudd, WTF are you talking about?

    I must have missed the presentation of evidence proving that, while transporting the AR in a vehicle, Kyle had the safety off and his finger on the trigger. Where was this ND going to come from exactly?

    We can make a supposition from Kyle’s testimony that the rifle was in Condition 1 (loaded, round chambered, and safety on — as there is no evidence offered that that safety was off). You do realize that this is exactly how people who carry handguns drive around? Yet I’ve seen no reporting to indicate widespread incidents of negligent discharges being caused by driving on poorly maintained roads.

    Clearly, you seem to know some firearms-related terms but your actual experience seems a bit limited. If you do own a firearm I’m betting on a Fudd edition shotty.

      The Pedant-General in reply to RayCL. | November 10, 2021 at 2:34 pm

      “Fudd edition shotty” absolutely correct. Side by side 12 bore. Thing of beauty.
      “your actual experience seems a bit limited.” see above. We do things differently in the UK.

    THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED….. Unless you’re last name name is Baldwin.

After the prosecution’s fail, why is Kyle on the stand?

What I want to know is, why hasn’t Binger been cited for contempt of court? I mean, he tried to bring in evidence that the judge had excluded. So instead of citing him, the judge just barks at him. What the hell?

Binger is doing this because the anti-gun, liberal mob who’ve been calling for Kyle’s head on a pike for over a year would have *his* head if he didn’t.

Strange to have a line of questioning where neither participant knows what they are talking about.

Yeah. He should have just said that he didn’t remember. This part of Binger’s cross may be what secures a conviction on reckless.

No One of Consequence | November 10, 2021 at 1:46 pm

If he picked hollow points, Prosecutor would have argued that he wanted to cause maximum damage. Those bullets are designed to kill! With full metal jacked, Prosecutor lies and says they’re designed to go through the target (with the implication that they’re more likely to hit some bystander).

It’s all bullshit because different FMJ bullets act differently from each other and from others at the same type depending on velocity. Military 5.56 (similar to .223) 55gr HMJ is likely to break and fragment. Military 62gr FMJ – especially if shot through a shorter barrel – is considerably less likely to break and fragment.

And it’s all irrelevant because Rittenhouse didn’t pick the ammo. Prosecutor further proves that he is a dishonest sack-o-shit.

Maybe Binger will get the Blimp to cause the mistrial.

    LetsGoBrandon in reply to Elzorro. | November 10, 2021 at 2:05 pm

    I dunno. Binger is trying pretty hard to get there himself. After the judge reflects over lunch, he may dump this case. We can only hope.

Where we are now: Rosenbaum (Binder) is chasing Rittenhouse (Judge Y) across the car lot (courthouse). For Kyle, this must be like a flashback with a different set of actors, but the same story. Can’t wait to see what happens next.

This break sure seems to be taking a long time, even for lunch

not if he gets the “with prejudice” ruling.

Okay at this point Binger is stalling so he can keep Kyle on past today.

Really?
The prosecutor wants to get into evidence a T shirt with a naughty word on it, from an incident months ago?
And this proves what, exactly?
I don’t think I have ever seen a prosecution this inept.
No competent and ethical DA would ever bring these charges, given the evidence we have all seen, thanks to Andrew Branca, who is doing yeoman’s work here.

Binger knows he has screwed this up and is trying to get a mistrial so he can have another bite at the apple, Richards is right about that. I wonder if there is anything in WI law that would allow a prosecutorial misconduct case here.

I thought the yellow pants statement was accusing KR of pointing a rifle at him “with a laser” and that KR said he did not do that. How has it become an argument that the defense hasn’t corrected that KR said he did point his rifle at yellow pants? Am I misremembering?

    The Pedant-General in reply to f2000. | November 10, 2021 at 2:35 pm

    I thought KR said “yes he did”, but then qualified that he was being sarcastic. Was nervous about that too…

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to f2000. | November 10, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    No, that’s my memory too. There was apparently no way for KR’s rifle to even generate a laser, so Binger is arguing to have his sarcasm admitted as fact or something?

Lance Ito this judge sure ain’t.

This judge has been pretty good, but the wishy washy needs to stop.

I am starting to agree with the idea that the prosecution wants a mistrial so they can move this to a “friendly” judge.

    Capsaicin_Addict in reply to geronl. | November 10, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    the problem is that Hizzoner has threatened to dismiss with prejudice. Which means they don’t get another bite at the apple.

    I’ve been wondering if the ADA isn’t somehow throwing the DA under the bus. I understand he’s up for re-election.

Capsaicin_Addict | November 10, 2021 at 2:38 pm

Would it be legal to send Judge Schroeder a baseball bat so he can beat some sense into Binger?

T-shirts. Tik-Tok. Good grief. Your honor, please, just put this mess out of its misery.

So questioning can go on after the request for mistrial?

Can someone explain?

This all seems like more pointless questioning going nowhere

This is a real clash of world views.

“We” (Binger and snide progressives who hate actual Americans) “call 911.” Kyle is one who actually had a sense of community and initiative.

“Reckless and dangerous!” to be a functioning and strong person, according to Binger.

    henrybowman in reply to xnycp. | November 10, 2021 at 4:36 pm

    Call 911… for what? To get the police (who were already there and doing nothing) there?
    You’re 100% right about the world-view thing.
    Dead giveaways: anybody who uses the words “punish,” “vigilante,” or “judge and jury” to describe being armed for self-defense.

Wow. Binger just said that people protecting their own communities is not something that happens in “regular society”. If you want a description of Leftism, there you have it.

    xpaulso in reply to aslannn. | November 10, 2021 at 3:17 pm

    However starting random fires and destroying random property. That is normal.

    henrybowman in reply to aslannn. | November 10, 2021 at 4:40 pm

    “The first publicly funded, organized police force with officers on duty full-time was created in Boston in 1838.” — Time Magazine
    So for its first 60 years — the Founders’ period — this is exactlyI/i> how America functioned, and was designed to function.
    And nobody ever removed the citizens’ right to continue to do so.

Midfiaudiophile | November 10, 2021 at 2:57 pm

So now Christan’s orders have force of law too? Is he a telephone operator or something?

why is video unavailable now on LI? 2pm CT

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to sdharms. | November 10, 2021 at 3:01 pm

    The stream on youtube is working, but I see the same “This video is unavailable that you do”. I’m guessing PBS decided to disable embeds because they didn’t like being on the LI website or something?

My god…. Binger can’t let a bad line of questions go.

Occasional Thinker | November 10, 2021 at 3:02 pm

A woman was recently raped on a Metro train and there was condemnation of bystanders that didn’t come to her assistance. Would any sane person come to a stranger’s assistance in Kenosha while this prosecutor has a job? This is a problem in our society.

    Well that is exactly this prosecutor’s goal. And no, I wouldn’t help them either, for this reason.

      Midfiaudiophile in reply to Smooth23. | November 10, 2021 at 3:35 pm

      Is Binger trying to do anything meaningful here or his he trying to introduce prejudicial and irrelevant information to impugn Kyle’s character “You wanted to hang out with the other militia people, because you too are a militia people” or something?

Binger seems to think riots are safe places.

This is stupid. Just because I put on my seatbelt, it doesn’t mean it’s because I expect to be in a crash.

Midfiaudiophile | November 10, 2021 at 3:04 pm

This is why you don’t let someone who doesn’t believe in legal self-defense prosecute a legal self-defense trial. Binger has no idea how big an ass he’s making of himself here.

Embedded video is dead.

Binger is going to go on an on an on an wear the kid out. Defense just letting him go. Awful.

Binger will keep going tol the day is done. He will begin again 2morrow.

Binger is trying a social justice trial. Not a self defense trial. “Other side”. He was in the side of staying alive.

Will court be in session tomorrow (holiday?)

Kenny Effin Powers | November 10, 2021 at 3:19 pm

This prosecutor’s face has rat-like features.

Alls I can say is SO WHAT

It feels like Binger is implying motives have to be perfectly pure, otherwise you have no right to defend yourself.

Kenny Effin Powers | November 10, 2021 at 3:26 pm

This is such repetitive and convoluted questioning; can somebody explain the purpose of it?

He’s not charged with protecting property!!! Cmon mann

Kyle has the patience of a saint.
I would have lost it by now in that witness box.

Told ya. If only he had stayed home nothing would of happened. Have the defense lawyers passed out comatose?

Sounds like he’s now accusing Rittenhouse of providing medical care & preventing fires, while knowing it might be dangerous. Where I come from, we call that heroic.

    Yeah, I like how Binger keeps describing how dangerous the environment was, and how scared Rittenhouse was. Maybe Binger isn’t aware that self-defense means someone is in danger, and scared for their life.

We need this trial replayed on Mystery Science Theater 3000. With Mr. Branca as guest heckler.

Witness in the back is the use of force expert for defense, right? he looks bored as hell.

Where’s the “Objection, asked and answered?”

Lots of repetition in this line of questioning.

Binger seems to be arguing that if you put out a fire set by arsonists, the arsonists are ‘provoked’ and justified in attacking you with deadly force.

    LetsGoBrandon in reply to PBM. | November 10, 2021 at 3:46 pm

    And that would be exactly what he and his progressive buddies believe. It is also why he has time to beat up a person who had to exercise self defense rather than trying the myriad of rioters, looters and arsonists.

I hope the defense has a use of force/self defense expert to testify along, with someone who can explain to this idiot prosecutor what a hollow point round does and why it’s used since he keeps pushing the idea that FMJ rounds are soooooo evil.

Kenny Effin Powers | November 10, 2021 at 3:44 pm

This questioning is SO DAMN REPETITIVE….UGH.

Does Binger ever get out of his snowflake bubble? Does he not realize that this is a dangerous world sometimes?

    He’s trying to use that snowflake bubble to carry his bs points. When he asked kyle 500000 times why he was carrying and why he felt like he needed to I wish the kid would have looked at him, looked around and said. “What are we here for again?”

Binger: Why did you put your seatbelt. on if you didn’t think you would crash the car?

    LetsGoBrandon in reply to KPOM1. | November 10, 2021 at 3:49 pm

    The judge should order them removed from at least the driver’s seat in Binger’s car. Clearly, in Binger’s world, bad stuff only happens when you plan it.

Binger is playing the disgusting game we knew well in the 1960s: “So, Miss Smith, you are a very attractive girl who was wearing revealing clothing while walking alone in a poorly-lit late neighborhood at night.

To what extent do you think your risky, downright dangerous behavior contributed to the fact that you were gang-raped?

Perhaps you were looking to get raped!

poor kid. Binger is an idiot. I hope his constituency can see what an idiot he is.

Apologies if this is a very basic question but I was wondering what impact — if any — would a ruling in Kyle’s favour in regard to the serious homicide charges have on the reckless endangerment charge?

Can you at once in the law be lawfully defending yourself AND recklessly endangering others?

    This may not be clear on the law but where I think the prosecution is going with it’s “full metal jacket rounds” line. At one point Binger tried to say that the purpose of FMJ is to “go through the first target to the next.” A round designed to penetrate cover but to my understanding there is no round “designed” /intended to go through multiple persons. That is a weird, semantic fantasy that Binger is hoping to play to those “anti gun” and ignorant of firearms.

    It’s clear that Binger is no advocate for justice but a mean-spirited advocate to convict Kyle Rittenshouse of something-anything and justice be damned!

    henrybowman in reply to lyovmyshkin. | November 10, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    Oh, yeah. Every bullet fired can be a “count” of something.
    If it takes four shots before an attacker on PCP finally keels over and hits the sidewalk, those four are self-defense. If you then take an “anchor shot” to make sure he stays down, that one is murder.

This trial is good for one thing…memes.

It is over. The only way this jury convicts is the jurors’ possessing extreme politically-grounded bias/sympathy for the decedents (hard to imagine) and hostility towards Mr. Rittenhouse (also hard to imagine), total disregard of the facts and evidence, and/or, most likely, external threats/intimidation by Leftist, goose-stepping, brownshirted thugs.

    LetsGoBrandon in reply to guyjones. | November 10, 2021 at 4:16 pm

    I agree, but would not be too surprised to see a hung jury.

      Good point; I hadn’t considered that possibility. Although, a hung jury would be a disgraceful outcome, given the total paucity of evidence to supports the State’s charges and to dis-prove a valid exercise of lethal self-defense by Mr. Rittenhouse. Acquittal is the only morally, legally and factually correct choice, here.

        LetsGoBrandon in reply to guyjones. | November 10, 2021 at 4:35 pm

        Totally agree. I just feel there are probably a couple of snowflakes on the jury who either came determined to hang KR or are scared s-less of the population if they acquit.

    henrybowman in reply to guyjones. | November 10, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    “The only way this jury convicts is the jurors’ possessing extreme politically-grounded bias/sympathy for the decedents (hard to imagine)”

    Really? It’s hard to imagine that in a city that elected as gigantic a totalitarian buffoon as Binger, there can’t be anybody on the jury who is at least as totalitarian as he is?
    This is really the #1 thing that concerns me about the outcome of this trial.
    We thought Chauvin was in the bag on the facts, too… but the facts didn’t matter in the end.

      Chewbacca in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 5:00 pm

      Binger is not the District Attorney. He is an assistant and not in an elected position.

      guyjones in reply to henrybowman. | November 10, 2021 at 5:51 pm

      Fair enough. That said, I don’t know the area in question, well, as far as its political leanings. So, all I’m merely stating that if the jury acts rationally and objectively, as opposed to politically, it’s hard to imagine a rational person coming to any conclusion other than acquittal.

He’s trying to use that snowflake bubble to carry his bs points. When he asked kyle 500000 times why he was carrying and why he felt like he needed to I wish the kid would have looked at him, looked around and said. “What are we here for again?”

Will the judge’s ruling on the admissibility of the zoomed/modified/enhanced image set a precedence in WI for admitting such evidence? This could be a big deal.

The defense is probably correct: it’s quite possible that pinch and zoom is using an algorithm to smooth the pixels and heighten contrast. So it is in fact changing the data. Binger is either an ignoramus or a liar (or both).

This is a Hail Mary by the prosecutor.

Was the jury present when the judge told Binger he didn’t believe he was acting in good faith?

My gut here is that Binger is actually trying to provoke the Judge to a mistrial. Usually that’s a tactic of a bad defense. But here, may well be the last, desperate Hail Mary to avoid a complete acquital, get a “mulligan” and let them try again. But I think the Judge is a cool customer and won’t let him get it.

    KPOM1 in reply to xnycp. | November 10, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    Hence the reason the defense wants a mistrial with prejudice, which would not let the state bring back the charges.

Google just released a new phone that has a feature that lets you “erase” unwanted objects. AI has made it easy for even casual users to modify photos and videos.

I should add that I would be very suspicious about the prosecution doctoring the video at this point, and it should not be allowed without expert forensic examination.

Blaise MacLean | November 10, 2021 at 4:24 pm

In all my years as a lawyer I never had a Judge say he/she didn’t believe me. On the contrary my word was always accepted by Judges. As a law prof I teach my students that your credibility with the court (and opposing counsel) is something that must be protected carefully. This always guided my practice.

If a Judge ever told me that he didn’t believe me…didn’t believe I was acting in good faith…I think I would have melted and slid under the counsel table. The most humiliating thing I can ever imagine happening.

What does this guy tell his kids?

I’m really glad young Kyle didn’t employ that awful ‘talk to the jury’ style of testimony and appeared to just be trying to honestly testify and not put on a show. Not only might such a tactic have tied him in the jury’s mind to Grosskreutz who was a disastrous failure as a witness I think it might rub normal people the wrong way and seem affected and fake.

Binger looks deflated, defeated. That smug spring in his step is gone. What a manifestly rotten and unethical prosecutor, dishonest to the core. A total disgrace to the state of Wisconsin and to the legal profession, at-large.

    jhkrischel in reply to guyjones. | November 10, 2021 at 4:32 pm

    At first I wasn’t sure if it was malice, or incompetence. Now I’m more on the side of malice.

    The man should be held in contempt and imprisoned to teach him a lesson.

He DID testify that he raised the gun earlier today. WTF is Binger talking about.

This is farcical. What is this video stunt that Binger is pulling? There is no rabbit in his hat. This is just disgraceful.

CuriousJustice | November 10, 2021 at 4:36 pm

It’s legal for Kyle to walk the streets and put out fires. If the streets are full of dangerous criminals that doesn’t abrogate his right to self defense. That is opposite what seems to be Binger is trying to argue. Binger wants to perpetuate the idea that by going into a dangerous area to out out fires, Kyle forfeited his right to self defense. Heck, Kyle could’ve arrested all those arsonists and vandals if he wanted to under Wisconsin’s citizens arrest law.

This is the Trayvon Martin school of logic — to posit that an unarmed person can never pose a lethal threat of bodily harm to another person.

    guyjones in reply to guyjones. | November 10, 2021 at 4:40 pm

    As Mark O’Mara masterfully pointed out in his closing argument. thug Trayvon armed himself with a concrete sidewalk, when he smashed George Zimmerman’s head into it, repeatedly.

    Similar to how thug Rosenbaum attempted to arm himself with Rittenhouse’s rifle.

Yes, sociopath Rosenbaum was unarmed. Binger is grasping at anything, in desperation, here. Rosenbaum wasn’t armed; so what? He cursed Mr. Rittenhouse and attempted to take his rifle from him, after chasing him. Case closed.

Midfiaudiophile | November 10, 2021 at 4:39 pm

Gee sure am glad that they’re showing me this particular quarter second clip at 50% speed so I can opine on what may have happened in hindsight.

WTH is Binger trying to prove with this? Slowing down when pursued somehow negates right to defense?

This would be funny if it was not so sad.

At what point does the judge tell this ass hat to stop? He’s been going on for hours and has made no real points. He’s simply torturing this kid as long as the judge will allow him to. This is ignorant.

    aramissebastian in reply to Chewbacca. | November 11, 2021 at 7:58 am

    You know that joke, “when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”

    Almost all of the prosecution’s cross of the defendant was ineffective, in the sense that he didn’t communicate anything to the jury they didn’t already know, and he wasn’t going to change any minds. Bear in mind, in law school, the advocate is taught to arm jurors sympathetic to his position with arguments they can make during deliberations to deliver the outcome he is seeking. By that standard, the prosecution’s cross was a nullity.

    True, cross-examination is at the discretion of the court.

    But, if all the advocate is doing is hurting his own cause, why not let him have at it? So, it was short term discomfort for the defendant, and long-term reward, if he ends up being acquitted.

If someone is trying to take your gun, that’s a deadly threat. This is going to be key to the Arbery case too.

Apparently if someone has threatened to kill you. Then corners you and grabs your gun. You should assume there is no real threat to your life.

    guyjones in reply to xpaulso. | November 10, 2021 at 4:50 pm

    Binger is positing that you should trust in the good will of a man who has just cursed you, chased you, thrown an object at you and attempted to take your weapon from you. Insane logic and even more insane, as a legal argument.


Font Resize
Contrast Mode
Send this to a friend