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Chauvin Trial GUILTY ALL COUNTS!

Chauvin Trial GUILTY ALL COUNTS!

Sentencing in 8 weeks, state moving for aggravated sentencing above and beyond guidelines

THE VERDICT IS IN. We will cover live

Chauvin sentencing in 8 weeks.

FYI, state has filed Blakely motion for aggravated sentencing, above and beyond guidelines, arguments for that will be heard over next couple of weeks.

Chauvin could have had jury make call on aggravation factors, waived that right, Cahill will make that call.

___________________________________________________________

GUILTY ALL COUNTS

Count 1. 2nd degree felony murder: GUILTY

Count 2. 3rd degree murder: GUILTY

Count 3. 2nd degree manslaughter: GUILTY

___________________________________________________________

Cahill unseals verdict, flips through pages.  Will read.

___________________________________________________________

Judge Cahill is seated in courtroom, parties, rising for jury.

___________________________________________________________

While we wait, DON’T CLOSE THIS WINDOW!, but might want to open up a second browser window, check out post I’d started today before imminent verdict announced:

Chauvin Trial: The Big Lie of the 3-Minute-Plus “Restraint While Pulseless”

___________________________________________________________

One thing for certain, jury unanimous on whatever decision.

If they had deadlocked on anything, would have informed, judge, judge would have read them whatever Minnesota calls an “Allen Charge” to go back and try harder, and that would have been done publicly in courtroom, and we’d know. That didn’t happen, so no deadlock on any charge.

Either guilty, or not guilty, period, nothing in between.

___________________________________________________________

Tick-tock, tick-tock …

___________________________________________________________

Minnesota sentencing guidelines are outside my expertise, but talking heads are saying the recommended sentences for someone with no priors, like Chauvin, would be as follows:

2nd-degree “felony” murder: Recommended 10.5 years (max 40)

3rd-degree “reckless” murder: Recommended 10.5 years (max 25)

2nd-degree manslaughter: Recommended 4 years (max 10) and/or $20k fine

___________________________________________________________

Chauvin and Nelson reported present at courthouse.

___________________________________________________________

RE: sentencing, prosecution has notified court earlier that they intend to pursue aggravated sentencing, although I don’t know the details on that. Chauvin had right to have a jury decide on aggravation, or waive that right and have Judge Cahill decide on aggravation, and he opted to waive and have judge decide, assuming there was a guilty verdict at all.

___________________________________________________________

Very surprised no questions from jury at all, even on causation, suggests didn’t really consider the legal merits.

___________________________________________________________

Three counts for jury to have considered:

2nd-degree “felony” murder: Max of 40 years

3rd-degree “reckless” murder: Max of 25 years

2nd-degree manslaughter: Max of 10 years and/or $20k fine

___________________________________________________________

Attorney Andrew Branca here, folks, just waiting for details.

Informed guess given how rapidly the jury has arrived at a verdict is that it will guilty on multiple, or all, counts.

FYI, we’ll be updating info by typing it at top of post, like this, then updating the whole page, so you’ll need to refresh the page on your end to see new content.

UPDATES:

3:15 p.m. Tuesday (/WAJ)

Expecting verdict to be read between 4-5 p.m. Eastern

EARLIER COVERAGE:

This is a “group” post in which primarily Andrew Branca and Prof. Jacobson will post updates as we await a verdict, but other authors may jump in depending who is available when news breaks, including if the jury has questions or there are other court proceedings.

The author of the update will use his/her initials, and the updates will be posted in reverse chronological order, with the most recent at top. (/WAJ)

They are boarding up businesses in … San Francisco … for the “mostly peaceful” protests.

Tuesday 2:50 p.m. (/WAJ)

Ilan Omar has an opinion.

Tuesday 12:30 p.m. (/WAJ)

Biden says he’s “praying the verdict is the right verdict” in Chauvin Trial

Tuesday 10:55 a.m. This image tells you everything you need to know about the atmosphere for the trial. (Via this YouTube channel broadcasting live today). (/WAJ)

Tuesday 9:15 a.m. This CBS News report from yesterday is generating a lot of controversy, coming close to doxxing a juror. This is part of the problem of the jurors knowing they will be outed and targeted if there is a not-guilty verdict. (/WAJ)

Tuesday 8:45 a.m. – Jury concluded deliberations at 8 p.m. (Central) last night, return this morning. Minneapolis is boarding up and the Governor has called for more National Guard to be ready. (/WAJ)

 

[Featured image is a screen capture from video of today’s court proceedings in MN v. Chauvin.]

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Comments


While I agree this is probably a guilty verdict, the speed of the deliberations doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the conclusion they came to. I was on a jury a number of years ago where a doctor was being sued for malpractice. Seemed an open and shut case (Guilty) until the evidence came out and my mind changed. I thought I would be the only juror that thought this way and was rehearsing my arguments but once we started deliberating I found out everyone else on the jury had reached the same conclusion I did: Not Guilty. We were in the jury room for maybe 30 minutes. The prosecution used appeals to emotion, etc., and some of the things I saw in this trial reminded me frequently of this experience.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to molson. | April 20, 2021 at 5:09 pm

    I would be shocked by a not guilty verdict. The man was convicted long ago. As I said, he needed to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. The state did not have to prove his guilt. I think the state failed to prove guilt, but that does not matter here.

    The only saving grace for the others is there is no iconic picture to stir emotions.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | April 20, 2021 at 5:20 pm

      This is how the police will respond:

      Get a call for service, swing into the Dunkin for a donut and coffee.
      Enjoy the donut and coffee.
      Enjoy a second coffee.
      Stroll to the car.
      Drive casually to scene for call of service.
      Look to see it anything is going on. If yes, then back to the Dunkin.
      Have another donut, and a decaf coffee.
      Stroll to car and drive casually back to scene.
      If fire or medical is on scene, drop in to see what’s up. Write a report. Go back to Dunkin.

      This is all about getting the cops off the street so the drug dealers can roam freely.

      Maybe there will not be riots. But the dead bodies will stack all the same as police presence and response is subdued going forward.

      Defend yourself? Look forward to 40 years in jail, unless you live in a RED county with a RED sheriff and RED DA and a RED jury.

      Gremlin1974 in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | April 20, 2021 at 7:28 pm

      Anyone who watched Jury Selection should know that at least 3/4 of the jury had decided how they would vote before the trial began.

BLM surrounding the courthouse chanting “burn it down!”

https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1384585880439070721

    lurker9876 in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    Am guessing that BLM will burn it down regardless of the verdict, I still think the verdict will be guilty.

      Char Char Binks in reply to lurker9876. | April 20, 2021 at 4:44 pm

      They’ll behave TODAY if they get what they want, but it will encourage future bad behavior — very bad behavior, and a lot of it.

      pwaldoch in reply to lurker9876. | April 20, 2021 at 5:29 pm

      Remember that Mad Maxine was calling for 1st degree murder charge conviction, something Chauvin was never facing. So just expect that the outrage mob still won’t be happy here and watch your neighborhoods folks!

There is an old saying about a picture being worth a thousand words.

Well, a video is worth a thousand pictures.

It is very likely that nothing which was said at trial was factored into the decision at all because people are visually oriented creatures. And that video was about as prejudicial as they come.

I guess we will see shortly.

Kind of is a verdict for America. Can a jury in America consist of critical enough thinkers to come to the correct analysis and verdict anymore? It’s a verdict on the Left’s cultural and educational influence over the general public vs independent thinking.

    broomhandle in reply to foospro86. | April 20, 2021 at 4:40 pm

    I think you put it well.

    fishstick in reply to foospro86. | April 20, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    well America is getting dumbed down by our institutions

    that 10 min video is a hard watch but all the forensic evidence and science shows it was not murder

    not saying there isn’t a case to be argued where it could be a felony assault and manslaughter… but the evidence just isn’t there to say Chauvin killed George Floyd

    but the Left’s mob mentality not only has affected the people, ways of thought, and private industry, but government on every facet

    at this point – what do we really expect?

      MarkS in reply to fishstick. | April 20, 2021 at 5:22 pm

      The fact is that if Chauvin had not put his knee on the side of Floyd’s neck, Floyd would not have died at that point in time, so, yes, Chauvin is guilty

        Char Char Binks in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 5:36 pm

        You’re either taking too much meth and fentanyl, or not enough.

        Milhouse in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 5:42 pm

        That is just not true. He probably would have died exactly the same way no matter how Chauvin restrained him. Or even if Chauvin had never touched him.

        The fact is that the knee hold is explicitly recommended in the police manual.

        alaskabob in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 6:27 pm

        Grab a Gray’s Anatomy textbook (NOT the TV show) and thumb through it. Nothing… and I mean nothing of value is where Chavin sometimes put his knee. The police subdued him… and the drugs …which he took to hide evidence… did him in. Functionally Floyd killed himself but that is not allowed to be stated in this upside-down world.. Don’t even try to challenge the anatomy.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to foospro86. | April 20, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    Verdict on America is already out, and it’s guilty. Regardless which way they decide, they didn’t spend nearly enough time deliberating and figuring out the burden of proof, use of force training, anything else.

Gee, what a fair and balanced report from the Fox News reporter. Did he simply pick up the prosecution’s close as his “report”?

    Belisarius in reply to Edward. | April 20, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    Yeah… I just turned off Fox and switched to Newsmax, which I honestly don’t like, but I couldn’t take Neil “Clueless” Cavuto anymore.

    Fat_Freddys_Cat in reply to Edward. | April 20, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    It will be interesting to see if anybody in the news biz will have the stones to question this verdict.

    JohnT in reply to Edward. | April 20, 2021 at 5:33 pm

    Faux News and Newsmax are both controlled opposition media. They proved that after the election.

The Friendly Grizzly | April 20, 2021 at 4:40 pm

<blockquote<Tick-tock, tick-tock …

Please tell me Hannity is not on the LI roster now!

The #MediaIndustrialComplex will continue to promote riots until it is their buildings, reporters, and staff being attacked. They are intentionally creating situations where any verdict will end in violence.

It’s obvious where this is going, and I am thoroughly disgusted and disheartened.

I’m curious how a jury could find guilty on all counts, since the elements contradict each other. Don’t they?

    oogabooga in reply to GWB. | April 20, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    And the prosecution offered no evidence for 2nd degree murder (let alone beyond reasonable doubt) but I guess self-preservation over justice and facts

      Gremlin1974 in reply to oogabooga. | April 20, 2021 at 7:34 pm

      Well considering the Media started doxxing the Jury the minute they went into deliberations, I am sure, made it easy for the 3/4th that decided before the trial started to convince the other 1/4 that it was in their best interest to vote guilty so they didn’t get murdered or their house burned down.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to GWB. | April 20, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    Not as far as I’ve read, no. In a sane state, manslaughter would be unintentional and murder would be intentional, but Minnesota in its wisdom has Murder 3 and Assault 3->Murder 2 as unintentional possibilities.

      Char Char Binks in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | April 20, 2021 at 5:00 pm

      Murder 3 was not much of a problem until they had to find something to do with Noor. It was the highest crime the Land of Mondale could pin on a Somali terrorist for killing a white woman.

the blacks are only hurting themselves, Minneapolis is a shitehole and will only accelerate to a Baltimore, Detroit or St. Louis

If I was a cop, I’d never leave my car except for doughnuts

The Friendly Grizzly | April 20, 2021 at 4:54 pm

With the crowd outside the courthouse screaming for blood, are there any means of protecting those inside?

For a palate cleanser, lets give Assata Shakur a pardon

she could run for Hastings seat. I mean, why break up a good thing

Every single House Democrat voted to stand with Maxine Waters

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveScalise/status/1384606240857329666

    gonzotx in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    Of course

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    I 0ften ask myself a question: when I see this sort of thing out of the Democrats, would my parents, were they still living, remain staunch Democrats? I am sad to say I know the answer.

      LibraryGryffon in reply to The Friendly Grizzly. | April 20, 2021 at 6:09 pm

      My parents are still alive (in their 80s) staunch democrats, and nothing will change that. Even when they agree that the Dem candidates for a particular election make whores and conmen seem models of probity and morality, they still vote for them.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 5:29 pm

    That is horrifying.

I am so sad for the man

    sheldonkatz in reply to gonzotx. | April 20, 2021 at 8:22 pm

    I’m with you. The world was against him, and the world won, in the short term anyway. Why was it against him? for doing his job

I’m sad for America. The left clearly wants a civil war.

    gonzotx in reply to geronl. | April 20, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    Let’s give it to them cause after today no person is safe in these United States

    NavyMustang in reply to geronl. | April 20, 2021 at 5:12 pm

    I served this country for almost 40 years in the military, as a beat cop, and in a few 3 letter agencies in DC.

    TOTAL waste of my life.

    Kreemerz in reply to geronl. | April 20, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    Everyone has been saying that about some civil war.
    Just not gonna happen. As long as everyone can continue playing on tiktok, drinking Dutch Bros, and tinkering on their iPhones, no civil war will happen.

We are all Chauvin now

In a normal case, either civil or criminal, a jury coming back this quick would indicate a not guilty.

Here, I agree with the analysis above.

Behold twelve men and women of pure intent throwing a sacrifice into the volcano to keep their village safe.

We’ve come so far since those dark days. Not.

Cahill seems unusually happy

Char Char Binks | April 20, 2021 at 5:06 pm

Chauvin should give a listening speech.

As did the judge who absolutely refused very reasonable requests to change the venue of the trial and to sequester the jurors from news — and threats.

There is no more America. This is a post-apocalyptic hellscape. There are no laws except for what violent racist mobs make.

America, nice knowing ya

Dejectedhead | April 20, 2021 at 5:08 pm

Multiple Murderer and manslaughterer.

Show trials are brutal.

Wow.

What. A. Lynching.

It was a lynch mob from the start

The Friendly Grizzly | April 20, 2021 at 5:10 pm

I imagine the celebrations will commence shortly.

Appeal?

This was not a fair trial.

Yep, this was a show trial

goddessoftheclassroom | April 20, 2021 at 5:10 pm

Please, Dear God, may justice reign at the appeal.

Expected but still kind of shocking. It’s as if the jury was watching a different trial. Chauvin handled that pretty well, I couldn’t have.

    NavyMustang in reply to Northwoods. | April 20, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    You could tell he was freaking out by the way his eyes were moving wildly. But yes, good on him for keeping still.

The mostly peaceful celebratory riots will commence as soon as the MSM goes home for the evening.

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to jhkrischel. | April 20, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    Oh, I believe the opposite. The rioting and looting will be done for the benefit of the cameras and microphones.

8 weeks for sentencing…………………

AnAdultInDiapers | April 20, 2021 at 5:11 pm

In my country the term we would use is a very diplomatic but serious one.

Miscarriage of justice.

No further comment.

Char Char Binks | April 20, 2021 at 5:11 pm

Why did Chauvin sit when told? Why comply? floyd didn’t comply!!!

NO MORE COMPLIANCE!!!

@Branca

so how does the appeal process go for Chauvin in this case?

can the upper courts hold him guilty for all 3 counts even when the literal evidence shows there was no way his knee could have been Floyd’s main cause of death?

plus all the media surrounding this case + the quick verdict makes me think the jury was either tainted or felt threatened in a non-guilty verdict

so sad this can happen in America

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to fishstick. | April 20, 2021 at 7:01 pm

    The facts have been established in this case. The facts of the case cannot be reargued. Appellant must show cause for error in process. It is neither easy nor likely, even when the entire systems is not deliberately stacked against you, as is the case here.

    My sad assumption is that Chauvin is now to be murdered in prison. It will be briefly noted in the nightly news in three years or so.

Midfiaudiophile | April 20, 2021 at 5:12 pm

So this means that Chauvin’s uniquely evil and there’s no problems with the training of the Minneapolis Police Department or policing in general, right?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | April 21, 2021 at 8:02 am

    Yes, you are correct. We now know no one up the chain was responsible at all.

    Sometimes you just have to toss a guy to the wolves to save your onw butt. Regrettable, but, hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

What is due process? Disgusting, how the protesters can intimidate a jury pool. Whatever Chauvin did or did not do this was NOT a FAIR TRIAL.

All by itself the toxicology report should have freed Chauvin. The jurors considered nothing outside of the 9 minutes of Chauvin with his knee on Floyd. Oh, and they voted to save themselves.

    Vancomycin in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 5:23 pm

    “they voted to save themselves.”

    It’s funny. BOTH sides can do the violence game, and the jury can be doxxed at *any* time. Just saying.

    If they’re only afraid of consequences from the left and the marxists, then they’ll vote the way the marxists want.

    Until they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t, things aren’t going to change. Welcome to the USSA.

    MarkS in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 5:26 pm

    Are you of the opinion that if the knee was not on Floyd’s neck that he would have died anyway?

      jhkrischel in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 5:31 pm

      Yes. George Floyd died because he OD’d and fought with the cops.

      Milhouse in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 5:47 pm

      Yes, of course. Even if the stress of being restrained had something to do with it, he would have died no matter how he was restrained, and you surely can’t possibly be arguing that the police were wrong to restrain him.

        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | April 20, 2021 at 7:09 pm

        I believe that must be the argument. I see no other choice, hence my assertion that the donut business will be booming from all the police bidding their time responding to calls for service.

        Might as well defund the police. They will not be sticking their neck out for anything. Why take the chance of pulling over someone for any offence? Departments will need to reinstate quotas to get the rank-and-file to do some work. Safest route is to pull over elderly white women, make things up, and give them a ticket. Look for cops hanging outside of assisted living facilities.

      Dave in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 5:50 pm

      Yes. His level of fentanyl was 11x what would be considered a fatal amount in his blood. He couldn’t breathe because his lungs were full of fluid from the overdose.

      alaskabob in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 6:44 pm

      Being redundant from an earlier posting…. the knee to the neck was in no way lethal. Carotids and tracheal are far forward and vertebral arteries are shield in bony canals.. ALso, bilateral arteries and front and back preclude compromise of the brain. Just mashing muscle … nothing deadly. But this is a courtroom and reality was left outside.

      Observer in reply to MarkS. | April 20, 2021 at 8:29 pm

      That is what the evidence showed. Floyd died because his heart stopped beating, and his heart stopped beating because it was severely diseased (90% and 75% proximal occlusions in the major arteries), and the meth contained in the speedballs Floyd ate, combined with the adrenaline that was released into his bloodstream when he struggled with the cops for several minutes, pushed his heart to its literal breaking point. Chauvin’s knee did nothing. Floyd’s breathing problems (which began well before he was put into the prone position, as evidenced by his saying “I can’t breathe” 7 times before he was put on the ground) were the result of the fluid in his lungs, which was caused by the fentanyl in the speedballs.

      Floyd died while being restrained, but he did not die because of the restraint. Chauvin’s knee did nothing.

    Kreemerz in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 7:49 pm

    Nope. That didn’t seem to matter.

    The medical examiner report mentioned ‘homicide’. As soon as that doctor came out with a SECOND REVISED autopsy report and he mentioned ‘homicide’ when he never alluded to that in the first report, I knew the trial was over and they would hang Chauvin. And they did.

So I was watching the fox live stream up above and they still said that Derek Chauvin was kneeling on George Floyd’s neck for 9:29 seconds. Was that not disproven through the past few weeks of court? Why can the news media not stick to the facts?

Travesty. There was plenty of reasonable doubt.

Fat_Freddys_Cat | April 20, 2021 at 5:16 pm

Well, the mob got what it wanted. Will it suffice? I doubt it.

I can see vigilantes forming

We have no law anymore

None

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to gonzotx. | April 20, 2021 at 5:18 pm

    I completely agree.

    JRaeL in reply to gonzotx. | April 20, 2021 at 5:39 pm

    I also expect a more hands off approach from police when they are called.
    I can see a policy where unless a violent felony is being committed they tell people to file their own complaint with the local DA.

    The other thing I predict that verdicts and show trials like this will actually lead to an increase in the use of deadly force. Why? Because the standard for using deadly force and being found justified for doing so are easier (for want of a better word) to meet than being required to know the medical history of the suspect in custody.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JRaeL. | April 20, 2021 at 7:10 pm

      “I can see a policy where unless a violent felony is being committed they tell people to file their own complaint with the local DA.”

      Yup – even then, they will show up after the fact and just write up a report.

This is disgusting. Even for second-degree murder which the prosecution didn’t offer a shred of evidence for. This is insane. Zero judicial integrity or due process

They said he was a racist cop.
They said our entire society has to change due to this case.

But, never presented any evidence that this was racially motivated. Never actually showed any motive for Chauvin to kill him.

Will they now admit race was not a factor? That the officer was not racist?

Will they scale back the massive changes they are making throughout America?

    Dave in reply to Ben Kent. | April 20, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    No to all your questions. Judge Cahill is going to give Officer Chauvin the maximum sentence possible as he, too, is afraid of the mob.

All three counts? Isn’t that triple jeopardy? Aren’t the criteria somewhat exclusive? (If intent existed, negligence could not).

Given the trial mistakes, like the failure to change venue or sequester the jury AND the threats of violence, or Cahill allowing the prosecution to backdoor introduce withheld evidence on blood gas levels at the last minute, or the slow release of evidence by the prosecution after the trial began, I think the verdict is probably meaningless as Chauvin should have a slam-dunk appeal.

All this verdict shows is that Lynch’s Law and mob rule are the new face of Minnesota Nice.

I can’t imagine why Chauvin wouldn’t have opted for a bench trial—it just seemed like he didn’t have a hope with a Minneapolis jury.

What would Cahill (assuming he’d have been the judge) have given him—manslaughter, maybe? With a low-end sentence?

But I’m not a lawyer—maybe there’s less of a chance of a successful appeal with a bench trial?

dallasmediator | April 20, 2021 at 5:22 pm

I don’t think there is any hope in the appeals court. This case was never about the facts. Why would any juror, or judge risk their lives or livelihood and deal with the facts? They just offered human sacrifice to the woke gods and carry on to live another day. My take is that Cahill will go with the maximum sentence, and just move on with his life as well. Why would he do anything differently?
Sad day… And a terrible day for those of us that still believe in the rule of law.

Cops should hand their badges in en masses tonight. How can you arrest someone now without risking life imprisonment?

    LongTimeReader in reply to Astrov. | April 20, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    Policing will definitely be impossible anywhere near Minneapolis. Officers need to make the hard decisions and leave the places that hate them, even if they take a financial hit. It’s simply not worth it.

      LibraryGryffon in reply to LongTimeReader. | April 20, 2021 at 6:15 pm

      It might be a financial hit to quit the job, but I would imagine having to go through a show trial (probably at your own expense any sort of defense, assuming you can find a lawyer) and then spend the rest of your life in jail would probably do even worse things to the family budget…

      alaskabob in reply to LongTimeReader. | April 20, 2021 at 6:47 pm

      A great time for Minneapolis to convert the police force into social workers. Any cop staying should be suspect to being part of the cabal. Any cop leaving should be accepted into a community… any private citizen who eventually leaves should be shunned.

It’s official. America is no longer the land of the free or the home of the brave.

    JohnT in reply to Jmaquis. | April 20, 2021 at 5:29 pm

    That was official a long time ago when we experienced the greatest election fraud ever seen in the western world and placed a demented, pedophile criminal like Biden into the White House.

Guilty on all counts? What a damned travesty. The only bright spot is I can’t see how this will not be overturned on appeal. The law is certainly not on the side of guilty verdict on all counts. I know the appellate court does not (with some very narrow exceptions, I think) consider the jury’s finding of fact. But it is obvious that the facts as well as the legal points did not enter into their decision one iota. How could it? To allow such would have exposed them to bodily harm.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JRaeL. | April 20, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    “The only bright spot is I can’t see how this will not be overturned on appeal.”

    The facts of the case have, legally speaking, been established. Chauvin killed Floyd in several different mutually conflicting ways. For example, Chauvin’s knee was able to both constrict Floyds breathing by constricting the movement of his ribcage while simultaneously closing off his windpipe AND occluding both his arteries on each side of his neck without causing any injuries to flesh or bone, This is now a fact. It cannot be re-argued. There must be a process error. And an appellant court will not find one. Those judges do not want the careers ruined or their houses burned to the ground.

    Nonetheless, it is highly unlikely Chauvin will not serve out even a tiny portion of his 1,000,000 year sentence, because, though very sad, Chauvin will be placed into the general prison population and murdered by inmates.

    This is likely a death sentence.

      For some reason the term “legal aspects” just alluded me when I posted. So I used the too general word “law” instead. I do know that an appeal does not review the findings of fact. The assumption being that the jurors have dealt with such pesky details. How they must of poured over even the most minutiae of evidence their brows furrowed in concentration, attentive to the lively intelligent debate among their members solemn in their sworn duty. Eager that no travesty would pummel the rights of a fellow citizen. Driven to do the right thing even in the face of threats from the perpetually outraged and cajoling from the dimly elected. So we can be confident the findings of fact require no second look. Does my contempt for the decision show? I am disgusted to the extreme.

      If a processing error must be argued I hope it starts with failure to get a change of venue. There was no way for Chauvin to get a fair trial. Like you I fear for his safety.

        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JRaeL. | April 21, 2021 at 8:13 am

        There was nothing fair about this “process,” for all the reasons you state and more. But if the lower courts are so afraid of the mob, why would a higher court have any stiffer of a spine?

What a disgrace. Yet another example of the corrupt, multi-tier justice system we have. This trial was tainted from the beginning and had obvious witness intimidation and jury tampering. The leftists and DemonRats are sowing the wind…

I sat through every single minute of that trial and in no way at all did the state even prove how he died, let alone how DC was responsible!

This is a political conviction! It was impossible for the jury to remain impartial.

Tonight I pray for DC!

    Observer in reply to Decee. | April 20, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    Yes, the state’s own medical experts could not agree on what caused Floyd’s death, but the jury still decided that there was proof beyond reasonable doubt that Chauvin’s knee caused the death. That makes no sense at all. The state’s own witnesses established the reasonable doubt. The jury could not have come back with a guilty verdict if they had taken their oaths seriously.

Both murder and manslaughter is legally incoherent

Both second degree and third degree is legally incoherent

I forsee motion for judgment not on the verdict coming down the pipeline.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    Any motion other than a 1,000,000 year term in prison, of draw and quartering on the court steps will be denied.

China must be laughing their asses off

    JohnT in reply to REDACTED. | April 20, 2021 at 8:22 pm

    They have been since they helped steal an election and install a demented criminal like Pedo Joe in the White House.

Subotai Bahadur | April 20, 2021 at 5:30 pm

I wore a badge for 28 years before I retired. Now it is time for everyone wearing a badge to take it off. There is no way to do your job. There is no way to arrest any “protected class” for committing a crime. They want to live that way, let them. Get yourself and you families out of the urban Leftist controlled areas before you and they are killed.

Subotai Bahadur

    Thank you for the time you served.

    Yes. And, here in NY they put them back on the street immediately. By law.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Subotai Bahadur. | April 21, 2021 at 8:19 am

    “There is no way to do your job.”

    If the law is selectively applied, then selectively apply it.

    But, yes, citizens of the blue areas will need to fend for themselves. However, this is about letting gangs and drug dealers rule, in addition to ignorance and want.

    But be sure, people will flee the blue areas, and when they come to your town, they will bring with them their pathologies and distorted world view and continue to vote blue and demand blue policies. You must understand, the failure of blue is not because of blue, it is because of Trump and all who support him. If only those people could be eradicated, then everything will be OK.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair | April 20, 2021 at 5:30 pm

Chauvin is found guilty of three different crimes for the same act. Funny how that works …

Soviets are embarrassed.

They never thought America could out do them with:
… Show trials,
… Pravda,
… Indoctrination of kids,
… Disinformation

    David Ked in reply to Ben Kent. | April 20, 2021 at 5:43 pm

    No joke. I speak Russian and I am steeped in Soviet history. We are experiencing a Soviet style takeover of the US. Eventually it becomes self propelling and unstoppable.

      LibraryGryffon in reply to David Ked. | April 20, 2021 at 6:31 pm

      Found this cartoon over at (I think) the Powerline Week in Pictures in the comments. Don’t know if it will post, but the link is to a version I uploaded to imgur, so should be safe?
      https://imgur.com/a/pog28kg

        lurker9876 in reply to LibraryGryffon. | April 20, 2021 at 7:48 pm

        I saw many FDR cartoons demonstrating the Republicans complaining about the FDR policies. Yet, when the Republicans took back all 3 houses, they did not reverse any FDR policies.

        I don’t have much hope for the Republicans to reverse one thing if they take back 2022.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to David Ked. | April 20, 2021 at 7:44 pm

      “Eventually”?

    Dave in reply to Ben Kent. | April 20, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    The jury knew within an hour what they were going to do. The rest of the time they played cards, ate free food and watched Oprah’s interview of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

I wonder how many on the jury thought a guilty verdict would satisfy the mob? Unfortunately, the mob will NEVER be satisfied, this trial and its railroaded verdict will only embolden them.

    Danny in reply to dji9424. | April 20, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    Maxine Waters threatened them and the media started the process of doxing them, what do you think?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to dji9424. | April 21, 2021 at 8:20 am

    “I wonder how many on the jury thought a guilty verdict would satisfy the mob?”

    The jury was part of the mob.

I don’t know why I haven’t posted this yet…

Does anyone else think it’s unseemly to have non-prosecutors volunteer to prosecute the case? Pro bono?
Seriously, as if the state NEEDS help. They already have the power of the ENTIRE state arrayed against one guy and you’ll solicit and accept help from non-state employees?
Especially since DC gets one overwhelmed but decent lawyer and a limited staff…
Seems unfair.

I have little doubt that if Floyd had not taken a lethal dose of fentanyl that he would not have died.
I have little doubt that if he hadn’t had Chauvin kneel on his shoulder / neck area for 9 minutes that he would likely have died or at a minimum been in extremis from the OD.

There was no need to follow the trial as if the evidence mattered or what was presented in court meant anything. Chauvin was already predetermined to be guilty and nothing that was said or done during the trial made any difference.

If GF would have gotten into the police vehicle like he got into his own car just moments before, this would nave never happened

the police will have to severely change their tactics, which is to say, do nothing

the criminals will never change

except for the worse

Should Chauvin have asked for a bench trial?

Char Char Binks | April 20, 2021 at 5:45 pm

I hope this encourages more criminals to take meth and fentanyl

Most of America just became a NOGO zone

    Johnny Weissmuller in reply to REDACTED. | April 20, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    Now more de-policing in the city.

    JusticeDelivered in reply to REDACTED. | April 20, 2021 at 6:56 pm

    I grew up in an area which was a nice middle class neighborhood, then over about five years saw it change. They had what they called block busters, that was where white or black trash moved in, and when decent people started moving out. They did not move over race, it was over character. Those characters were then able to drive the value of property down to half of less.

SeiteiSouther | April 20, 2021 at 5:50 pm

Unbelievable.

Very shortsighted verdict, the people of Minneapolis have no idea what is in store for them now, given how the mob has only been emboldened by this miscarriage of justice.

I sure hope Kyle Rittenhouse has a better lawyer than Chauvin did or that young man is going away for life for sure.

    buck61 in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 6:03 pm

    nelson did a very good job with what resources he had to work with. i’d hire him in a minute

      Char Char Binks in reply to buck61. | April 20, 2021 at 6:23 pm

      Nelson messed up because he didn’t know his audience. They didn’t care about law and facts.

      Then again, jurors were selected to convict. The prosecution chose them because they knew they had no case,

        much of this lays on the feet of cahill, he wasn’t striking people for cause, he forced Nelson to use them up. It got to the point where Cahill was actually issuing extra strikes to both sides in this case.
        that was just one of many situations where cahill had no spine in this case

      Midfiaudiophile in reply to buck61. | April 20, 2021 at 6:59 pm

      Truthfully, I think the defense could have done a better job in a couple of key areas. Obviously, hiring Barry Brodd was a big mistake for the defense (just like bringing Mercil in to testify was a big mistake for the state). Also, I think he had an emergency medicine expert in his list of experts. Having testimony discussing the improved prognoses had the ambulance shown up to the scene when expected and/or if the firefighters had arrived on time to place the airway and/or if the ambulance reached the hospital in a reasonable timeframe could have improved his outcome.

      That said… I think that Chauvin and Nelson already knew this thing was going to appeal and so they opted to keep some arrows in their quivers for a possible subsequent trial. Perhaps not the wisest decision, but after how many places they got screwed over, starting with forced the peremptory challenges during voir dire, it’s perhaps justifiable.

    guyjones in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 6:05 pm

    Your assessment is unfair and way off-base. You haven’t been reading Andrew Branca’s excellent courtroom analysis of the trial, here at LI — he has nothing but praise for Nelson’s performance, especially considering that he is basically a solo act working with limited resources, up against a prosecution with ten times his resources and manpower, at least.

      Char Char Binks in reply to guyjones. | April 20, 2021 at 6:25 pm

      Rittenhouse’s lawyer better learn what it’s all about from this trial. No bullshit law and facts — they don’t win.

    luckystars in reply to Dave. | April 20, 2021 at 10:15 pm

    Hope he has a better jury.

I lost all faith in justice & humanity tonight. I am devastated because I watched every second of the trial from here in the UK and have lurked on this forum encouraged by the common sense that seemed to prevail. I saw Nelson deal in the facts and the prosecution just flip flopping to wherever & what ever suited at the time. It goes without saying that I feel desperately sorry for Derek Chauvin and indeed the other 3 officers who must be now fearing the same fate later this year, I also feel for every police officer who does their job by the book but now fears a black man dying in their custody from natural causes but mostly my heart is heavy for Eric Nelson. This guy didn’t resort to underhand tactics, or ridicule or downright lies, he worked so hard even with the prosecution dumping shit on him day after day. He must be exhausted and now wondering what went wrong. I am not sure what happens next, but I do know this trial was not fair and for that there must be recourse. I am gutted!!!

Manslaughter was the only appropriate charge, based upon the evidence. And, I believe that a jury could reasonably reach a manslaughter charge, based upon the facts of the case. But, the other counts are utterly ridiculous and are totally unsupported by the evidence.

I’m not saying Floyd deserved to die but, the streets are safer without him on them.

I get it to some extent, Chauvin is not a likeable person, the burden of proof was on the state to prove their case, the burden is also on the jury to go into the trial with an open mind and consider all of the testimony, exhibits and take into consideration the judges instructions.
With the jury rendering a verdict either way, guilty or not guilty shows me that this jury had already made up their minds prior to deliberating, Given also the evidence to consider this was a rush to judgement

    Decee in reply to buck61. | April 20, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    This quick verdict shows they all lied through their teeth during jury selection to get on the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.

      buck61 in reply to Decee. | April 20, 2021 at 6:25 pm

      i was a juror on what most people would consider a fairly straight forward robbery case. Once we were sent to the jury room we sat down and went though the case weighing all the evidence and everything else. This trial was about 3.5 days long after being seated, the delibaratin process took us most of a day plus we had several questions for the judge.
      the fact that no juror had questions to present to the judge for clarification was also another telling sign about the jury in this case. there was too much gray area over many issues.

      alohahola in reply to Decee. | April 20, 2021 at 6:28 pm

      That’s pretty much it.

      PGiddy in reply to Decee. | April 20, 2021 at 6:52 pm

      Here’s how the conversation went as soon as the jury got sequestered: “I’m keeping an open mind, but isn’t Biden great?!”

I’m confused. How can it be all 3? Don’t they have to pick one?

I think the defense did a good job but suspected that no matter what facts they presented, Chauvin would be found guilty. Trending on twitter “rot in hell.” I am really surprised by guilty on all counts though.

    BreenaJohn in reply to Samantha. | April 20, 2021 at 7:23 pm

    I don’t think the defense really had a chance from the beginning. The defendant’s fate was sealed when the motion to change venue was denied. I feel bad for MSP police who are just starting careers. I would would look for work elsewhere. Law Enforcement can be nasty and a bigger legal target is now painted on their backs as of today.

well, if we can have Coma Joe for prezzy, I guess we can convict innocent cops

My question is does this verdict predict the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict?

Why would the jury there be any braver against the media than this one? The video shows innocence in the case of Rittenhouse but the threats are explicitly there.

    Char Char Binks in reply to Danny. | April 20, 2021 at 8:57 pm

    I’m not as worried about Rittenhouse as I am about the McMichaels, Garrett Rolfe, and Devin Bronson. Kyle only killed whites, so their lives didn’t matter.

MoeHowardwasright | April 20, 2021 at 6:38 pm

Well…not unexpected. Sad really. Good luck finding cops in Minneapolis from this point forward. Even caught red handed, the cops will look away. They’ve seen what to expect. If you think Justice is alive and well, you’re wrong. The mob is now in charge.

Floyd would be alive today if he had not perpetrated a crime…

Dejectedhead | April 20, 2021 at 6:45 pm

Maybe throwing Chauvin to the wolves will keep Rittenhouse from being a sacrificial lamb as well.

Criminals will now be emboldened, and who will it mostly hurt? Inner city blacks.

Every perp will now fake a medical emergency and run from arrest. Good luck Minneapolis. Karma will take care of the jurors

Mob justice works. That’s been shown many times. Here are examples:

1. Cops who beat up Rodney King are acquitted, then riots make the Feds schedule another trial. (Fifth Amendment Double Jeopardy clause is annulled by SCOTUS.)

2. OJ Simpson is found not guilty, even though the evidence is conclusive, because of the threat of riots. The Feds decline to try him again, once again because of the threat of riots. Ironically, the Feds say “Double Jeopardy clause prevents re-trial!

3. This Chauvin case. The jury was told explicitly that they and their families would be doxxed, harassed, and assaulted, and cities would burn if they voted “not guilty.”

The unfortunate truth is America does not have the time of the resources to conduct such a grand scale social experiment.

normally, like parents do, we allow nature to take it’s course, thinking all will be put right in the end As a country, we do not have that luxury

outside forces are watching and will move in at their pleasure

far before this experiment is over.

So all you have to do is riot and get Mad Max to show up the day of closing arguments. Sent to prison for life.
This will embolden criminals like Floyd. This is get the police to back down.
This won’t be good for white people, obviously.

    OldProf2 in reply to luckystars. | April 20, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    Actually, it’s the black people who suffer the most from police reticence.
    Look at the statistics from Chicago after the police were forced to stop frisking gang members for weapons.

    The only people who will benefit from this are the donut shops, where the cops will hide from calls.

      Ex-POLICE in reply to OldProf2. | April 20, 2021 at 8:26 pm

      The cops that are left on the job will only be reactive,,,not proactive. They will just collect a paycheck and hope to get the time in for retirement. They will stop caring and just try to get through their shift in one piece.
      They will begin to search for another line of work. When your captain, police chief, mayor, etc throw you under the bus, there is no point in police work anymore. It is a fool’s errand.

        luckystars in reply to Ex-POLICE. | April 20, 2021 at 9:15 pm

        Saw it in San Francisco. I was at ground zero for this stuff for 65 yrs. My friend a cop was one of the guys who’s text messages the city looked into. Called him and 10 others racist and fired him. The Chief said “these guys disgust me” then a year later they came for him and he had to resign. Next it moved to Miami where they looked at their emails.
        Cops stopped responding to calls. The dispatch asked what race and if was black they stalled hoping it went away. Hispanic business owner I knew called the cops and they asked what race and he said “negro” and the dispatch said “if you say that again I am hanging up on you.”
        All during Obama regime.
        And this is how it ends.

So can a person be guilty of Murder 3rd / Murder 2nd / & Manslaughter 2nd all in 1 shot? I thought the jury had to pick 1?

Steve Richter | April 20, 2021 at 7:26 pm

If Chauvin had testified, his supporters would know the full story of what happened and why. People would be able to defend him based on those facts. The decision to not testify was just dead wrong.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Steve Richter. | April 20, 2021 at 7:57 pm

    I thought the same thing. Chauvin needed to become a human being in the jury. My thought all along was that he had t prove his innocence. I understand the the theory, but the jury needed to understand they were dealing with the fate of a fellow human being. Defense needed to counter the emotionalism of the prosecution. That was left completely unanswered.

    Normally I would say the Defendant should NEVER testify. But this was not normal.

      Steve Richter in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | April 20, 2021 at 8:04 pm

      “… Chauvin needed to become a human being in the jury. My thought all along was that he had t prove his innocence …”

      exactly, Chauvin was fighting for his life. Chauvin was supervising 3 rookie officers that day. He would not be given that responsibility if he was a bad police officer. The lawyer should have called colleagues to testify.

      The_Mew_Cat in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | April 21, 2021 at 12:00 pm

      Cops usually testify when they are put on trial for misconduct. They usually want to tell their side of the story. Chauvin didn’t, and I am sure that spoke volumes to the Jury.

If Noor get reversed its an automatic new trial.

It’s difficult to see this jury as anything more than grossly irresponsible. They weren’t out long enough to have seriously discussed the variations in the statutes and charges involved, much less to have discussed and fitted the evidence and testimony to them. Without a doubt, this was a tough assignment. I’ve said frequently that the jurors in the Michael Brown/Ferguson trial are to my mind some of the most courageous people in the country; this jury doesn’t even come close. As a “jury of our peers,” doing their civic duty, this is just one more indication of the trouble we are in; the defendant hasn’t been thrown under the bus, the country has.

wonder how the pregnant lady that GF pointed a gun at during a home invasion feels about GF being canonized ?

    Danny in reply to REDACTED. | April 20, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    You may be surprised, some of the actually innocent people Kamala Harris railroaded supported her during the 2020 campaign.

    n.n in reply to REDACTED. | April 20, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    Social justice requires that a few Fetal-Americans are aborted. Safe and rare.

    Baby Lives Matter

Somehow, Chauvin is so powerful that he managed to kill the same man three times.

Kenny Effin Powers | April 20, 2021 at 8:04 pm

According to the Minneapolis newspaper, one of the jurors replied as follows on her paperwork:

“She grew up in northern Minnesota and has an uncle who is a police officer in that area. She described herself as a “go-with-the-flow, open-minded type of person” and said she was “super excited” to get her jury notice.”

Isn’t reading something like this a huge red flag? A juror that is “super excited” to take part?

Here are the bios of the other jurors: https://www.startribune.com/the-12-jurors-deliberating-in-the-trial-of-derek-chauvin/600047789/

In a sense, the jury verdict backfired on the extreme left

The system that they have deemed irredeemably broken and in need of replacement gave them the exact result that they wanted thus refuting the political narrative.

Ergo, why AOC and her fellow nuts are insisting the verdict was not good enough.

    Jay Guevara in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 8:21 pm

    That would require intellectual consistency and honesty.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to paralegal. | April 21, 2021 at 8:26 am

    “The system that they have deemed irredeemably broken and in need of replacement gave them the exact result that they wanted thus refuting the political narrative.”

    Nope, this will be construed as proof of the political narrative. The crowds have gone made. Logical is not part of the ruling calculus.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair | April 20, 2021 at 8:15 pm

So … if you can be found guilty of 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder, and 2nd degree manslaughter – all for the same act … then why can’t you just hit the guy with, say, 5 counts of 3rd degree murder for the act?? What’s the difference, except that, at least, multiple counts of one charge are consistent with each other, whereas the multiple counts they actually found are inconsistent with each other?

If you can find someone guilty of both 2nd degree murder and 3rd degree murder for one act then you shouldn’t have a problem of finding him guilty of two counts of 3rd degree murder for the same act. Hell, why not 1000 counts?

Here we go again……

“Family identities 15-year-old girl killed in police shooting in South Columbus”

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/person-in-critical-condition-following-officer-involved-shooting-4-20-2021

    paralegal in reply to paralegal. | April 20, 2021 at 8:27 pm

    Blake Montgomery, Chris Bournea
    Tue, April 20, 2021, 3:23 PM·2 min read
    Screenshot/NBC 4
    Screenshot/NBC 4
    COLUMBUS—A Columbus police officer shot and killed a Black teenage girl on Tuesday afternoon just as a guilty verdict was being handed down in the Derek Chauvin murder case, a family member said.

    The shooting victim has not been officially identified, but was named as 15-year-old Makiyah Bryant by a relative early Tuesday evening.

    “She was a good kid. She was loving,” Hazel Bryant, who said the child was her niece, told reporters on the east side of Columbus. “She was 15 years old. She didn’t deserve to die like a dog in the street.”

    – ADVERTISEMENT –
    According to Bryant, Makiyah called the police because someone in her house was abusing her. She went on to say that police saw a knife on the ground near Makiyah and shot the teenager four times.

    A woman identified as Tay Jones wrote on Facebook that she had witnessed the shooting and posted video purportedly from the scene. She said the 15-year-old had a knife “because somebody tried to jump her.” The white police officer who shot her never told her to put down the knife, according to Jones.
    https://news.yahoo.com/columbus-police-fatally-shoot-person-222318319.html

There are but two people resopnsible for where we are today: Jeff Sessions and William Barr.

Two people.

From General McInerney:

Going forward all messages on social media saying George Floyd died from drugs will be censored and you will have your account removed.

BLM is now requesting that the body cam footage showing the death of George Floyd be removed from all social media platforms.

George Floyd’s lawyer stated they will be having a protest in Texas soon. Scroll up I told you guy’s they are coming to Republican states.

President Joe Biden welcomed the verdict, saying Floyd’s death was “a murder in full light of day, and it ripped the blinders off for the whole world” to see systemic racism.

https://abc30.com/jury-finds-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-manslaughter/10530621/

If the prosecution want an aggravated sentence, does that mean the death penalty?

Will they find some way to apply it even if its banned in Minnesota?

This verdict is very bad news for all the other cops who will soon be facing their own trials.