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Private Autopsy contradicts Medical Examiner on George Floyd cause of death

Private Autopsy contradicts Medical Examiner on George Floyd cause of death

Dr. Michael Baden, hired by the family, found Floyd died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression, but the Medical Examiner found no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.

We earlier reported that the Criminal Complaint filed against Derek Chauvin in the George Floyd death containe a big problem for the popular and seemingly intuitive narrative that Chauvin’s extended knee pressure on Floyd’s neck was the cause of death.

[Via YouTube]

The Criminal Complaint, however, revealed that the Medical Examiner’s preliminary autopsy report found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.”

The Criminal Complaint (pdf.) read, in part (emphasis added):

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.

The reason this is important to the criminal case, in that if the knee pressure to the neck was not the cause of death itself, then the prosecution would have to show that the general restraint of Floyd was criminally negligent. Given an indication in Criminal Complaint that there was some level of resistance by Floyd during the arrest process, proving that restraint itself was a criminal act could be problematic. (As with many things at this stage, more facts need to come out. There is a video of Floyd being put in the police car while struggling, but it’s not clear yet how he got from the vehicle back onto the ground.)

I noted in that post that the family had retained well-known pathologist Dr. Michael Baden.

Withing the past few minutes, the Medical Examiner released further information, declaring that Floyd had a heart attack from pressure from restraint and neck compression:

(added) Here is the report:

This will provide fodder for defense counsel, because neck compression was not mentioned in the prosecutor’s description of the preliminary findings. In any event, asphyxiation is not listed as the cause of death.

Baden, joined by another pathologist, has released his findings. At least as described in news reports, it finds asphyxiation. AP reports:

An autopsy commissioned for George Floyd’s family found that he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression when a Minneapolis police officer held his knee on Floyd’s neck until he stopped breathing, ignoring his cries of distress, the family’s attorneys said Monday.

The autopsy by a doctor who also examined Eric Garner’s body found the compression cut off blood to Floyd’s brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe, attorney Ben Crump said. He called for the third-degree murder charge against Officer Derek Chauvin to be upgraded to first-degree murder and for three other officers to be charged.

Here is the press conference where Baden presented his findings:

The Medical Examiner’s report has not been released. So far, we only have how the prosecution paraphrased the preliminary report and the short form conclusions, not the detailed findings.*

That means there are conflicting findings as to whether Chauvin holding his knee to Floyd’s neck was the cause of death. That’s a problem for the prosecution because the prosecution has to remove the possibility of reasonable doubt, not create it by contradicting the Medical Examiner.

[*The last two paragraphs were updated based on the release of the M.E.’s short form report]


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Is this the same Dr Baden that determined that Jeffery Epstein didn’t kill himself?

    Milhouse in reply to MarkS. | June 1, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    Yes, it is. And his verdict deserves just as little credence now as it did then. He’s also the same one Crump hired to do a private autopsy on Michael “Gentle Giant” Brown, which was likewise a little light on the credence. And he’s the one who decided that Eric Garner’s death was homicide; ditto re credence.

      tphillip in reply to Milhouse. | June 1, 2020 at 7:00 pm

      ” And he’s the one who decided that Eric Garner’s death was homicide”

      No. That was the Staten Island Medical Examiner, which is under the NYC OCME. Michael Baden agreed with the state’s findings.

      You can’t be honest about anything can you?

      CorkyAgain in reply to Milhouse. | June 1, 2020 at 7:26 pm

      My suspicions were already raised by that photo of him wearing a virtue-signalling mask during his press conference.

      Vladtheimp in reply to Milhouse. | June 1, 2020 at 7:40 pm

      I find this of interest as it relates to the charges against the officer, especially in light of all the ‘experts’ in the media, as well as to (1) the fact that the deceased had been resisting being cuffed and resisting being placed in the squad car, (2) that he was claiming he couldn’t breathe while standing outside the car, (3) that the store owner apparently claimed he acted extremely drunk, and (4) that the preliminary autopsy report stated ” “The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.”
      — It says three factors contributed to this death: “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”


      Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

      Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

      Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

      Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)


      The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
      The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
      On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
      For life saving purposes, or;
      On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
      Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
      After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
      After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
      An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.

    Edward in reply to MarkS. | June 2, 2020 at 8:36 am

    I read an interesting article yesterday which picked apart Baden’s “findings”. Baden found no medical evidence of asphyxia, but deduced from the video most have seen that asphyxiation was the cause of death.

    The client is paying for a decision one way and Baden “found” it, one way or another.

Whether there was asphyxia or not, it would take a lot to convince me that wasn’t at least reckless homicide, and possibly second degree murder because he was told the suspect could not breath. The neck restraint was unnecessary in the first place, the suspect was not struggling, was cuffed and hobbles could have been used.

    healthguyfsu in reply to puhiawa. | June 1, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    For me, fentanyl intoxication goes a long way to his state of mind and the fitness of his body at the time of the altercation. It doesn’t automatically excuse the techniques used, but it doesn’t paint a very good picture for the prosecution.

      healthguyfsu in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 1, 2020 at 6:26 pm

      This excerpt also does not mention that the tox screen also came back for meth.

      So he’s hopped up on meth, fentanyl, and forging checks for more drug money? This is the guy to destroy our country over…really people?

        Any excuse is all they want. It could be that the grasshoppers were being shredded by homeowners mowing their lawns.
        The school indoctrination is pretty huge and you’re seeing the results.

      Observer in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 1, 2020 at 7:11 pm

      Yes, fentanyl on its own can cause difficulty breathing and racing heartbeat in some patients. It can also cause confusion, anxiety, and hallucinations. It will be interesting to see what quantity Floyd had in his bloodstream.

      Also, another article elsewhere reported that Baden said that Floyd had no underlying medical conditions that contributed to his death. But if Floyd had CAD, as the ME reports, that would be visible during the dissection of the arteries, and depending on the severity, could certainly be a contributing cause. That, combined with the fentanyl intoxication, would have made Floyd a heart attack waiting to happen. The sustained pressure on his neck certainly didn’t help matters, but it looks like the autopsy findings are going to give the cops’ defense attorneys plenty to work with.

      3525Tex in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 2, 2020 at 1:43 am

      Well he did have some methamphetamine ingested to balance the fentanyl.

      Sort of a ghetto martini I suppose.

    MosesZD in reply to puhiawa. | June 1, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    If you say you can’t breathe, you can breathe. It’s axiomatic.

    Further, if you READ THE REPORT you’d know that he was complaining that he couldn’t breathe BEFORE he was taken to the ground.

    Common heart attack signs and symptoms include:

    Pressure, tightness, pain, or a squeezing or aching sensation in your chest or arms that may spread to your neck, jaw or back
    Nausea, indigestion, heartburn or abdominal pain
    Shortness of breath <<<<<<——–
    Cold sweat
    Lightheadedness or sudden dizziness

    The evidence points to heart-attack by a man with serious heart disease, not murder.

      tom_swift in reply to MosesZD. | June 1, 2020 at 7:12 pm

      If you say you can’t breathe, you can breathe. It’s axiomatic.

      No, the word you’re looking for isn’t axiomatic, it’s simplistic.

        zennyfan in reply to tom_swift. | June 1, 2020 at 10:07 pm

        And false. When I had an obstruction, I couldn’t speak because I couldn’t breathe. However, when I have asthma attacks, I frequently say, “I can’t breathe” when I should be saying, “I’m having shortness of breath.” Many people do the same.

          HImmanuelson in reply to zennyfan. | June 1, 2020 at 11:41 pm

          > And false. When I had an obstruction, I couldn’t speak because I couldn’t breathe

          And I’m certainly not doubting you but I hardly think that means that every person having a heart attack can’t speak.

      LibraryGryffon in reply to MosesZD. | June 2, 2020 at 12:19 am

      Most people use “I cant breathe” to mean that they feel like they aren’t getting enough air/oxygen into their lungs. I know I’ve used it about an asthma attack and the sensation of suffocation a face mask has always given me (couldn’t wear them even as kid for Halloween). When I’ve been dealing with medical care due to asthma or pneumonia, I’ve never had a doctor or nurse not understand exactly what I meant.

    Milhouse in reply to puhiawa. | June 1, 2020 at 6:35 pm

    The restraint was thought necessary because the cops thought he was having excited delirium, for which the patient needs to be restrained lest he suddenly start jerking around and harm himself.

      gonzotx in reply to Milhouse. | June 1, 2020 at 6:55 pm

      Right…and we all know you must pin a person down by your knee on his neck for almost 9 minutes

      Please, I’m a nurse and very experienced in SAMA and CPI

      Your talking BS

      When people say they can’t breathe you release because THEY CANNOT BREATHE!!!

        healthguyfsu in reply to gonzotx. | June 1, 2020 at 7:14 pm

        Neck kneeling aside…I’m sure you didn’t face the same difficulties and challenges as the average street cop from your patients. Patients can be challenging and even dangerous, but it’s a very different situation.

          Terence G. Gain in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 2, 2020 at 6:27 am

          Floyd was on his stomach with his hands handcuffed behind his back. How was he a danger to anyone? The police are of course entitled to use as much force as is necessary to prevent harm to themselves. There was no excuse to kneel on his neck until he died and for two minutes and 53 seconds afterwards. The fact that Floyd was intoxicated does not justify excessive force.

          healthguyfsu in reply to healthguyfsu. | June 2, 2020 at 1:12 pm

          This was a direct response to someone’s appeal to authority fallacy (and a poor attempt at that).

          That is, because they were a nurse and dealt with difficult and sometimes dangerous patients then they know how every police situation should be handled.

          It was not a direct response to the Floyd scenario.

        Ira in reply to gonzotx. | June 1, 2020 at 7:37 pm

        My uncle had emphysema and he often mentioned that he couldn’t breathe, until he would get an emergency inhaler to his mouth. Then, of course, one sad evening that didn’t work.

        sheldonkatz in reply to gonzotx. | June 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm

        A lot of apprehended criminal suspects being restrained say things like “I can’t breath” not because they can’t but because they want to break their restraints. It’s asking a lot of a LEO to know the one who is not lying.

          zennyfan in reply to sheldonkatz. | June 1, 2020 at 10:09 pm

          It apparently also is asking a lot to expect LEOs to use common sense and not kneel on a suspect for nine minutes. (Two other officers were kneeling on Floyd’s back and buttocks or thighs.)

          ConradCA in reply to sheldonkatz. | June 2, 2020 at 9:33 am

          No damage to his neck or signs of strangulation!

        sheldonkatz in reply to gonzotx. | June 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm

        A lot of apprehended criminal suspects being restrained say things like “I can’t breath” not because they can’t but because they want to break their restraints. It’s asking a lot of a LEO to know the one who is not lying.

        Barry in reply to gonzotx. | June 1, 2020 at 8:42 pm

        “Please, I’m a nurse and very experienced in…”

        Not in dealing with criminals under arrest apparently.

        puhiawa in reply to gonzotx. | June 2, 2020 at 1:34 am

        Exactly. When the possibility of such is reasonable, as it was here, the officers used to be trained to acknowledge the health of the suspect.
        Oh. And I was in law enforcement for 10 years, police oversight for 3.

      Alonzo Archimemedes in reply to Milhouse. | June 2, 2020 at 4:35 am

      ok, so you’re implying that they were trying to help him?
      trying to keep him from injuring himself?
      “we had to burn down the village to save the village?
      sort of like that?

    Connivin Caniff in reply to puhiawa. | June 1, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Puhiawa, what are you doing in this comment string, making absolutely good sense? You are certainly out of place. It’s weird, most of these commenters make great comments on other subjects, but on this one they must have contracted some type of Disorder Syndrome from the D’Rats – this is what happens when youb don’t maintain adequate social distance from D’Rats! If the future jury in this case agrees with any esoteric, defense forensic pathology expert over their own shocked eyes, and acquits this obvious pathological torturer, I will start to believe that O’Jay was framed too.

    alaskabob in reply to puhiawa. | June 2, 2020 at 1:14 am

    Better read the toxicology report before going over the edge. As bad as the video is, and as knee jerk as I was, the tox screen is revealing.

    It really doesn’t change much. The conclusion is still the knee on his neck that caused the death. When Chauvin was informed that Baden was unresponsive, he continued the knee pressure another 2 minutes and 53 seconds! THAT is what killed him!

    What does it matter had he choked to death or been strangled instead? It was the knee to the neck that made the difference between life and death. Had he removed his knee when informed that Baden was unresponsive, he might have been resuscitated. He didn’t do that. The brain can only handle lack of oxygen and blood circulation for so long and he was already out cold.

    The way I read it, this was just a minor correction that still confirms the original conclusion.

    Voyager in reply to puhiawa. | June 2, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    That is self-refuting. If you can talk you are able to breath. Breathing is a prerequisite for talking, and as such, talking cannot continue in the absence of breathing.

    The very first symptom of asphyxiation of any type is that the person stops verbally responding. I.e. Step 1 in a suspected asphyxiation incident is you ask the person if they are ok. If they respond then it is probably something other than asphyxiation. If the do *not* respond you need to move quickly to more invasive measures.

    This is the “Hollywood Drowning” effect on full display:

    Watch it, and sear it into your memory, so if you *ever* see anyone acting like that, you know immediately that they are in life threatening danger and can act accordingly.

Didn’t hear Baden or Crump talk about being intoxicated on fentanyl.

    buck61 in reply to buck61. | June 1, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    now Crump completely downplaying the fact that he was intoxicated

    Lucifer Morningstar in reply to buck61. | June 2, 2020 at 7:40 am

    Of course not, that wouldn’t be in character of the “blacks as eternal victims” narrative the left is so fond of pushing when incidents like this happen.

Connivin Caniff | June 1, 2020 at 6:28 pm

There won’t be any reasonable doubt, even if there should be. It would be way to much of a coincidence for human minds to accept that it happened, at that very time, without that idiot cop’s knee being a causative factor. That’s the chance you take when you intentionally act like an arrogant idiot.

There is no question that the officer committed a crime against floyd and should be prosecuted.

However, the officer did not commit murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. I would have to vote for acquital since the officer did not commit the crime he has been charged with. Granted the officer did commit a crime, just not the one he is being charged with.

    Mac45 in reply to Joe-dallas. | June 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm

    Okay, I’ll bite. What crime did Chauvin commit against Floyd? Please provide factual evidence to support your position.

      Barry in reply to Mac45. | June 1, 2020 at 8:44 pm

      Yea, I’d like to hear about this “crime”.

      Joe-dallas in reply to Mac45. | June 2, 2020 at 8:11 am

      Excessive force would be the likely crime that he should have been charged with.

      My point was that he has been charged with a murder, 3rd degree manslaughter, etc. Which is not a crime that he committed. As such, he should be acquited of that charge.

    amatuerwrangler in reply to Joe-dallas. | June 1, 2020 at 10:08 pm

    I anxiously await your analysis. Chapter and verse, please.

Comanche Voter | June 1, 2020 at 6:39 pm

Well Connivin “If the autopsy doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”

We’ll see how it all goes down if and when it actually comes to trial. The Minnesota governor has removed the case from the Hennepin County prosecutor’s office and turned it over to Keith Ellison the State Attorney General.

It took 8 months for the Hennepin County prosecutor to file charges when the Somali cop blew away a white lady in her pajamas—indicting this cop in three days was moving pretty fast. Based on Ellison’s track record he could mess up a wet dream, so we’ll see how this goes.

    Connivin Caniff in reply to Comanche Voter. | June 1, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    Your response really surprises me, dear Comanche. You are a smart guy, but don’t you realize this cop has to go down? 96% of the U.S. population already wants to run him up a flagpole. Wait ’til the prosecutor shows the tape to the jury in real time, and the jury experiences just how long and painful 8 agonizing minutes are. This cop has cost innocent people their lives, property and futures because of all these stupid riots. In short, if they acquit, the Conniver will s**t – and then run for his getaway in the mountains.

      Milhouse in reply to Connivin Caniff. | June 3, 2020 at 11:56 pm

      The juries in both Rodney King trials saw the video, and had every single blow pointed out to them, and yet the first jury found the whole thing justified, and the second jury found all but the last six blows justified.

The Friendly Grizzly | June 1, 2020 at 6:40 pm

So, one pathologist is expected to be the hired gun for the family. The other is paid by the same ones who pay the police. Who does one believe?

    that will be for the jury to decide

    Easy follow the “science.”

    Have they ruled out Wuhan Virus? or Hydroxychloroquine?

    There will have to be a third, independent autopsy to determine who is right, and they need to wait for the tox screen to come back to tell if any drugs are present that might have contributed to cardiac problems.

    A heart attack leaves characteristic medical evidence, and asphyxiation leaves different evidence. If both of these autopsies were done by competent ME’s, they should come to the same conclusion. Since they don’t, then one of them is either deceptive or incompetent.

      healthguyfsu in reply to OldProf2. | June 1, 2020 at 7:21 pm

      Tox screen came back positive for very recent fentanyl abuse and proximate methamphetamine abuse.

      Lucifer Morningstar in reply to OldProf2. | June 2, 2020 at 12:29 am

      No there doesn’t have to be a ‘third autopsy”. You present the official ME’s report and you then you fight like hell to keep the bought and paid for report from the so-called “expert witness” (that’s Baden by the way) from being introduced in any legal proceedings. And if that fails then you put Baden on the stand and grill him over every last fucking detail that he released during that press conference and in any “report” he might release. I other words, you do everything in your power to discredit Baden as nothing more than a hack doctor writing reports for cash.

      That’s what you do.

        Question: In the criminal trial, how is Baden’s report going to be introduced and by whom? The defense? The prosecutor?

        If you say the defense, then why on earth would they introduce something antithetical to Chauvin’s case? If you say the State, then Chauvin’s defense team gets to imprecation it with the state ME’s report.

        Baden’s autopsy conclusion is tailor made for the civil wrongful death trial coming after the conclusion of the criminal trial(s). That, and poisoning the jury pool.

Dantzig93101 | June 1, 2020 at 6:50 pm

I don’t know about Dr. Baden one way or the other. But I do know about Benjamin Crump. When he shows up for a race case, it’s like Gloria Allred showing up for a feminist case. It’s prima facie evidence (to me, anyway) that the case will turn into political propaganda and a financial shakedown.

    CalFed in reply to buck61. | June 1, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    So posting “He wasn’t killed. He’s talking which means he’s breathing. He died because of drugs.” is enough to get you suspended.

healthguyfsu | June 1, 2020 at 7:28 pm

Also, buried in the fine print and nary a word from Crump is the disclaimer from his private gun for hire that “The doctors who completed the independent autopsy say they recognize toxicology reports and other medical information are needed for a final report.”

They also have worded things carefully to create a diagnosis by elimination “Nothing else could have caused this other than what is consistent with what people saw on video”. Rather than outright lie, they choose to ignore the information about his cardiovascular system and pretend they don’t have access to the tox screen info.

ScottTheEngineer | June 1, 2020 at 7:51 pm

Is this the same Benjamin Crump that locked the child safety locks on the rear doors of the SUV in which Jordan Davis was shot to make it seem as though they couldn’t the door unless someone opened the door for them?

He should have been disbarred by now.

What a surprise.

A deadbeat criminal resisting arrest turns out to have drugs in his system, the kind that can exacerbate heart conditions.

Everyone that jumped to conclusions should feel duped by the progs.

I watched Dr. Baden at the press conference. That was the least convincing performance by a professional witness I have ever seen. It was like he was there to check off all the boxes for an upcoming civil suit. He contradicted the state’s ME on cause of death and causation, found that there were no underlying medical conditions (because the family told him.) He also pulled in the other three cops as being culpable on causation. Dr. Baden may not have had the tox report, but if he did, his failure to address the drugs in Floyd’s system are telling.

So what is the state to do? Stick with their expert or throw him under the bus? I’ve read that Crump is on the prowl for a billion dollar civil damages verdict.

    ConradCA in reply to Redneck Law. | June 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

    I think Baden was told to make the best case for murder possible. He took the evidence that was available and made his argument to achieve his goal. He didn’t follow the evidence where it lead.

Did Baden actually perform an autopsy? Or is he merely giving his interpretation of the coroner’s report? I have heard (emphasis: heard) that it’s the latter.

any docs around here, can someone clarify what fentanyl intoxication means and recent meth use means?

    drednicolson in reply to buck61. | June 2, 2020 at 12:20 am

    Fentanyl is a strong sedative commonly used as animal tranquilizer. It absorbs slowly to let the target lie down before going completely out, to prevent injury from a sudden fall.

    Methamphetamine is an extremely strong stimulant home-brewable from commonly available chemicals and over-the-counter medicines. The “cooking” process is hazardous and the drug itself is both highly addictive and highly toxic to the body over time.

    A recent trend in street drugs has been to take fentanyl and “meth” together, an extraordinarily dangerous cocktail.

    mister naturel in reply to buck61. | June 2, 2020 at 5:49 am

    fentanyl intox means he was feeling NO PAIN
    meth intox means he had intense sympathetic stim yielding enhanced physical capabilities

Rumor, Keith Ellison has contracted Peter Strzok for document management since he is an expert at changing documents to fit a narrative.

Here is how Chauvin skates but the city loses bigly in the civil suit for wrongful death:

1. Burden of proof is less than criminal cases. (Preponderance of evidence vs beyond a reasonable doubt)
2. Civil jury finds Chauvin did not deviate from Minneapolis policy for restraint
3. Minneapolis Restraint Policy as written is likely to cause death to a criminal defendant with pre-existing conditions such as intoxication, drug use or a history of serious medical conditions.

( just spitballing here)

inspectorudy | June 1, 2020 at 10:20 pm

Prosecution aside, this case is going to be a slam dunk for the defense. Not because it isn’t a highly nuanced case but because there will be no jurors who can ignore all that has happened and listen only to the facts. Sure there will be 6 or 7 who will hear the facts and make an honest attempt to vote their conscious but never 12.

    buck61 in reply to inspectorudy. | June 1, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    I would bet on a highly charged argument regarding a change of venue as well. I doubt he gets a fair jury pool in the twin city area.

He wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t handcuffed him and laid on his neck. Maybe an emergency shot of naloxone — which they had in their glovebox — if an overdose was actually an issue? With coroners like the government’s, we could have actual video of Epstein being strangled and the official report would conclude his death was due to underlying conditions.

    Mac45 in reply to Victoria. | June 1, 2020 at 11:07 pm

    Interesting theory. But, how do you know that he would not have died, if he had not been laid on the ground in handcuffs? And, does the MPD issue naloxone to road patrol officers? Most jurisdictions only issue prescription medications to certified EMTs. And, naloxone is an anti-opioid drug. It might have had an effect on any fentynal in Floyd’s body, but how effective is it on methamphetamine? And, how would Chauvin know that Floyd was using fentynal, anyway? Do you know whether he was a certified EMT?

    This looks like a stretch to me.

      tom_swift in reply to Mac45. | June 2, 2020 at 2:04 am

      Consider further; guy is in cuffs but not otherwise touched by police. He has a heart attack—for whatever reason—and is lying on the ground. What might we expect the police to do in such a situation?

      (a) nothing;
      (b) render some sort of aid;
      (c) restrain him and deny any sort of aid;
      (d) pose with him and take some selfies.

      Of these, I’d say (c) is the worst. Homicide? Beats me, that’s why we have juries.

        rodaka in reply to tom_swift. | June 3, 2020 at 2:08 am

        The officers mentioned excited delirium so he must have been doing something to cause them to use restraint.

      Anonamom in reply to Mac45. | June 2, 2020 at 10:23 am

      Actually, a large number of agencies (and it’s increasing) DO issue Narcan to patrol officers. Heck, my retired husband who still plays cop-on-a-boat (issuing warnings to nice Canadians and handing out whistles and t-shirts to their children) is being issued it this season. (For which there is truly no good reason, just “everyone is doing this now.”)

    dmacleo in reply to Victoria. | June 2, 2020 at 8:24 am

    so…you state government coroner is bad but (in this case med examiner office) they state the drug usage issues, heart issues, AND the officer actions were all a part of this.
    make up your mind.

Dr. Baden is a very accomplished forensic pathologist. But, he has come to conclusions in other highly publicized cases which turned out to be false. We will have to see what he presents as justification for his position. He has made assumptions, in the past, which conformed to the narrative put forth by those who employ him, but, which did not hold up to later scrutiny. And, Mr. Crump is more interested in generating a damage settlement than in arriving at the truth.

So, we’ll have to wait and see.

    Barry in reply to Mac45. | June 2, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    But, he has come to paidconclusions in other highly publicized cases which turned out to be false.


There is a video of Floyd being put in the police car while struggling, but it’s not clear yet how he got from the vehicle back onto the ground.)

I read that Floyd resisted entering the patrol car by falling to the ground.

HImmanuelson | June 2, 2020 at 12:38 am

My wife was just watching the NBC news. They kind of forgot to mention the fentanyl and meth in his system, they forgot to mention the serious underlying medical conditions that he had, they forgot to mention that the ME report showed no signs of asphyxiation, and they forgot to mention that he was saying he couldn’t breathe while standing upright next to the patrol car.

But they did quote all of the damning conclusions from the “independent” autopsy.

LOL, no, they wouldn’t have a narrative here that they’re trying to stick to.

    alaskabob in reply to HImmanuelson. | June 2, 2020 at 1:16 am

    He now enters the pantheon of BLM heros.

    buck61 in reply to HImmanuelson. | June 2, 2020 at 9:21 am

    I normally don’t watch Hannity but last night he said that he was having Baden on as a guest so I tuned in to watch it, during that interview Sean failed to ask Baden about the drugs in his system or his other underlying conditions. It was just another puff piece interview.
    His interview was worthless. Mike Tobin comes on right after that, live from Minneapolis and right out of Tobin’s mouth is the statement that he had drugs in his system.

      It’s curious to me that both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have pre-judged this entire ordeal. It’s like they (as thousands of others) refuse to consider anything other than the last nine minutes of the sad life of George Floyd shown on one single video.

The piousness of the people ‘griefsticken’ by this guy’s death is clownish.

They seem just fine when old Brookly Jews get massaceres by obama sons.

stpaulchuck | June 2, 2020 at 4:24 am

the guy had meth in his system as well as fentanyl. just how good is that for your heart?

Does anyone have the link to the official toxicology report. Trying to find it on Google but they keep linking me back to the so called independent autopsy stories.

Does anyone have the link to the official toxicology report. Trying to find it on Google but they keep linking me back to the so called independent autopsy stories.

“An autopsy commissioned for George Floyd’s family found that he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression”

“The autopsy by a doctor who also examined Eric Garner’s body found the compression cut off blood to Floyd’s brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe”

I’m no doctor but do those two entries sound contradictory to anyone else? First they claim that he was asphyxiated, then they claim that the blood flow to his brain was cut off. Those are two different things.

Incidentally, both the airway and the to major blood vessels supplying the brain are at the front of the neck. The cop was applying pressure to the back of the neck.

I’d be more apt to buy the asphyxiation angle (although that doesn’t pass the smell test to me either…in my experience, if you can repeatedly cry out “I can’t breathe” the problem isn’t airflow) than the blood supply contention…the cop’s knee wasn’t anywhere near that part of his neck, but making both claims in the same autopsy report doesn’t exactly lend credibility in my mind.

I guess it will come down to the trial testimony…which expert can best demonstrate why and how they came to the conclusions they did.

Oh…by the way…he was on Fentanyl??? I’d think that would be mentioned by more people…that crap can kill you all by itself. So, he was on a powerful opioid that has side effects of slow heart rate and weak or shallow breathing…seems to me that could have been a major contributor to this gentleman’s untimely death.

    sheepgirl in reply to Sailorcurt. | June 2, 2020 at 2:42 pm

    It’s called positional restraint asphyxiation. The weight on his back while being held prone interferes with the bellows action of the diaphragm sufficiently enough to impair gas exchange in the lungs while the neck compression impairs blood flow to the brain until the O2 becomes so low your heart stops. This slow type of suffocation often leaves no visible marks because the steady low pressure doesn’t cause bruising or capillary damage like high pressure manual and ligature strangulations.

      rodaka in reply to sheepgirl. | June 3, 2020 at 2:14 am

      Is there good enough footage of the scene to determine if there was sufficient pressure on his back to cause asphyxiation?

wasn’t Biden…oops I mean Baden….the one that used an examiner who had lost license (and misrepresented himself) on the gentle giant brown case?

Headline: World Class race baiting ambulance chaser hires private forensic pathologist to improve award in expected wrongful death lawsuit. Film at 6,Noon,6 & 11, updates on the half hour.

Side note: AG Ellison, Calypso Louie Louie toady to head prosecution of evil cop!

Re pst314 | June 1, 2020 at 9:07 pm

“Did Baden actually perform an autopsy? Or is he merely giving his interpretation of the coroner’s report? I have heard (emphasis: heard) that it’s the latter.”

Right; my question, as well.

As far as I can tell, Baden made no statement as to the manner or method of his medical finding, ie, on what physical or documentary basis he asserts the predicate for his conclusion. I can therefore only assume he’s simply theorizing a cause of death.

I saw him interviewed last night on Hannity about the “work” he performed in the Floyd case, for the decedent’s family (and, by the way, when–over the weekend? yesterday morning?) and it sounds to me like his only “medical” evidence thus far is documentary: the notorious cell-phone video of Chauvin pinning Floyd down, belly-down in the street!

If he “found no evidence” of any co-morbid physical conditions, even going so far as to say the decedent was overall “in good health,” either a) he’s prevaricating a lot, or b) he’s not reporting “scientifically” or professionally by not disclosing his method and basis for his conclusion. His findings need to verified and reproducible — that’

‘s what adds the tone and tenor of scientific rigor to the report. Otherwise, he’s just being–I beg your pardon, Doctor–a paid lackey for the propaganda offense run by Crump et al.

We want the unbiased, reliable, verifiable truth of the matter, damn it!

So let’s not suspect a substantial fallacy in Dr Baden’s announcement: it’s an informal fallacy of argument, we’re taught,

“. . . an argument from authority, (Latin: argumentum ad verecundiam), also called an appeal to authority, is a common type of argument which can be fallacious . . .

“Carl Sagan wrote of arguments from authority:

“One of the great commandments of science is, ‘Mistrust arguments from authority.’ … Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.”

Sorry, the above, first sentence should read:

“Let’s suspect a substantial fallacy. . . .”

Decedent Floyd COD UPDATE (unoffical):

PROP: By his Standing-Before-the-Truth-of-the-Church’s-Cross, thus divinely blessed PITCH to the potential civil suit jury pool out there — I mean, rabid media and starving public — yesterday, Dr Baden mentioned (in passing, mind you), his evidentiary basis and justification for medically determining that Mr Floyd was “in good health” was neither the official Hennepin County ME’s report, nor other evidentiary findings upon its autopsy of the decedent, but, it’s wonderful to relate, “members of Mr Floyd’s family”.

ASSESSMENT: This unprincipled, inexcusable, unprofessional bias on Dr Baden’s part shows how really bad and pathetic this travesty of a so-called undisputed expert’s scientific, a most seasoned and experienced medical examiner’s opinion has become in this case.

As the claimed scientific validity of this source is, pretty much, part and parcel of the persuasive power of his public argument thus far, Dr Baden’s past accomplishments notwithstanding, we can reasonably subtotal his value to the truth concerning the cause of Mr Floyd’s death to read as follows: useless, muddying and misleading.

I’m almost ready to say most privately, to myself: It’s time to take a hike, Doc, but that might be premature or harsh. Maybe not, though, maybe not.

‘ Looking forward to the possibly pending results in the tox report, and to the disclosed basis of the “recent use” by Mr Floyd of both fentanyl and methamphetamine — concurrently, at the time of his arrest, or what?

This ongoing tragedy and debacle seems endless, doesn’t it?

An increasingly lost virtue these days: integrity; and too many of us both feel it and know it.

. . . Then, the hope-inspiring story about Genesee County (principally Flint), MI’s, Sheriff comes along to rescue us from our cultural funk and near-melancholy:

See it and feel better. There is still hope for a large peace and brotherly love to comfort us in our anguish for repair.

Baden’s findings always seem to be in alignment with whoever is paying the bill. I don’t know how his findings could be taken seriously be anyone.

I’ve been a police officer for 17 years. My department does not allow restraining someone by the neck except for in extreme cases where deadly force may be needed. However I have found myself in a similar situation to this officer while restraining a violent offender. He was handcuffed and continued to fight and was placed on his stomach. After a short time he became motionless and I found he had become unconscious. Luckily I was able to roll him over and he regained consciousness. The fact of the matter is that an officer is responsible for the safety of an arrested person and he should have been paying attention to the man he was arresting. If he had taken appropriate action when Floyd passed out Floyd may have lived and we would never have heard of him. If Floyd still died at least he would have shown that he was trying to care for Floyd in an appropriate manner. At this point he was at the very least negligent with the care of his prisoner, which could support a manslaughter conviction.

rangerrebew | June 3, 2020 at 3:49 pm

Is he the mortician at Rotten Rodney’s Mortuary and baby sitting service?

The media constantly refers to Baden as the “former New York medical examiner” but, in fact,” that was over FORTY YEARS AGO! Furthermore, he was FIRED by Mayor Ed Koch, apparently for incompetence. He’s become a celebrity by working as a hired gun on controversial cases. He tells his clients what they want to hear.