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Cuomo: Out-of-State Health Care Workers Who Came to New York to Help Now Subject to NY State Income Tax

Cuomo: Out-of-State Health Care Workers Who Came to New York to Help Now Subject to NY State Income Tax

“We’re not in a position to provide any subsidies right now because we have a $13 billion deficit” — Governor Cuomo

https://youtu.be/db-dhOUNpUQ

Thousands of health care workers headed Cuomo’s call for help and volunteered to go to New York to help amid the COVID-19 pandemic. New York was hit particularly hard. Now, those that spent more than 14 days in the Empire State will be required to pay state income tax, even if they’re being paid by entities in other states for their work in New York.

In a word:

via GIPHY

Pix11Pix11 reports:

He addressed the issues Tuesday at a news conference.

“We’re not in a position to provide any subsidies right now because we have a $13 billion deficit,” Gov. Andrew Cuomo said. “So there’s a lot of good things I’d like to do, and if we get federal funding, we can do, but it would be irresponsible for me to sit here looking at a $13 billion deficit and say I’m gonna spend more money, when I can’t even pay the essential services.”

Even though the state government asked thousands of people to come to New York from out of state to help fight coronavirus, they will have to pay New York state taxes, even on income they might make from their home states that they’re paid while in New York.

Cuomo said he needs help from Washington in order to cover budget deficits from COVID-19, let alone subsidize state income tax for essential workers that flocked to New York’s aid.

“If we don’t get more money from Washington, we can’t fund schools, right, so at the rate we want to fund them. We are in dire financial need,” he said.

The issue first came up when the temporary hospital in Central Park was being erected by Samaritan’s Purse.

“Our financial comptroller called me,” said Ken Isaacs, a vice president of the organization, “and he said, ‘Do you know that all of you are going to be liable for New York state income tax?’

“I said, ‘What?'” Isaacs continued. “[The comptroller] said, ‘Yeah, there’s a law. If you work in New York State for more than 14 days, you have to pay state income tax.'”

“I didn’t know that,” Isaacs told PIX11 News.

“What we’re even more concerned about than the money,” Isaacs continued, “is the bureaucracy, and the paperwork, and I think that once that’s unleashed…once you start filing that, you have to do that for like a whole year or something.”

Health Care providers came to the assistance of New York and rather than excuse the state income tax requirement, Cuomo is using them as political pawns, hoping to leverage the matter for a federal bailout to cover the state’s deficit. Truly despicable.

A NYC CPA explained further (Pix11 ctd):

Entities from “these other states will have to register in New York,” said Lawrence Spielman, a partner at the accounting firm Spielman, Koenigsberg & Parker, LLP, “and do withholding here in New York.”

Any out-of-state resident who’s come to the Empire State to work on coronavirus relief is subject to the tax after 14 days here.

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Comments

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | May 6, 2020 at 12:53 pm

Are they the ones in the NY nursing homes?

New York Allowed Workers With Known COVID-19 Diagnoses
To Remain On Job At Nursing Homes

Weazil Zippers

More than rude. Stupid and short-sighted. People will now think twice about answering New York’s call for help in the future–and rightfully so.

The Trump campaign ads are writing themselves.

“I’m Donald Trump, and I approve this message.”, followed by video of Cuomo charging NYS income tax on COVID volunteers.

NavyMustang | May 6, 2020 at 1:40 pm

And Samaritan’s Purse gets a double whammy.

“We New Yorkers want you gone cause you are so “HATEFUL”…but before you go, pay out taxes!!!”

CommoChief | May 6, 2020 at 1:42 pm

This seems easy to resolve at the state level for N.Y. but instead it appears as if they are choosing to use these out of state volunteers as pawns in an attempt to extract federal funds.

As an easy fix congress could simply create three lines of text into laws regarding a federal disaster/emergency declaration:

1. The recipient state shall accept the licensure, certification and credentials of the state where such volunteers reside or practice
2. Volunteers providing assistance in a state in which they do not reside shall continue to be subject to the taxes, if any, of the state in which they reside or practice. States receiving the assistance of out of state residents shall not attempt to subject these out of state residents to any form of employment based taxes, fees or dues.
3. Compliance with the above shall be a mandatory requirement for requesting the designation of a federal disaster/emergency and failure to comply will result in the revocation of such designation and shall require repayment of any federal funds provided to the state to the federal government within thirty calender days from the date of revocation.

Connivin Caniff | May 6, 2020 at 1:47 pm

Nonsense. Class actions in home states including with prayers for injunctive relief, attorneys’ fees and punitive damages for frivolous actions if NY files its own suit. And tell all your friends to avoid NY at all costs in the future, for any reason.

rabid wombat | May 6, 2020 at 1:52 pm

No good deed goes unpunished….

This is nothing more than Cuomo’s ploy to look sympathetic for getting federal money. As a NYer who’s watched Cuomo run our state into economic ruin, I stand firm he should not receive a dime. I feel horrible for the duped workers though.

This is not new. NY has long been demanding taxes from out of state workers who spend time in NY. They even define it for you. If you arrive before midnight and leave after midnight, even if it’s only for 10 minutes, that’s one day. Fortunately (for those less honest than me) it’s self-reported. So, if you are, say a Boston Red Sox player, and play 18 games in NY, you pay a shitload.

    And they will audit you and track you down no matter where you are, demanding payment for the time they *think* you spent in their fair state, leaving you to prove your location for the entire year or they’ll claim you snuck in to do business.

    Rush got slugged with a yearly audit on this, every single year after he fled. They’ll probably audit his estate for ten years after he passes away, too.

DaveGinOly | May 6, 2020 at 2:17 pm

I can’t be upset by this. They aren’t “volunteers,” they are “workers” and “employees” who are paid and subject to the same tax rules as everyone else who works and is paid.

Note that I don’t necessarily agree with the law. Most tax law is regressive (in the sense that it punishes working people, not in the leftist sense of the word), NY’s and NYC’s being particularly egregious. Nobody should expect to be excused from being subject to legal tax law of any state in which they labor (unless the statutes specifically exclude them from liability).

    healthguyfsu in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    Ridiculously bad take.

    They aren’t trying to work tax-free. They are trying to be taxed as they normally are in their home state where their employer resides. They were working on behalf of their employer from their home state in another state as part of good will to the state of NY.

    This is the thanks they get. Their taxes get a whole lot more complicated when they have to deal with the NY bureaucracy on top of their home state responsibilities. Welcome to socialism and graft.

      healthguyfsu in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 6, 2020 at 2:54 pm

      Also, I hope a court strikes this down…especially if they were paid through federal aid (which I believe they were since all the costs of COVID 19 care are being covered by the federal government).

      DaveGinOly in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 6, 2020 at 3:01 pm

      But that’s not the reality of how the law works in NY and NYC. What you want is for the emergency workers to be treated differently under the law, and that’s (supposedly) not how it works in this country. What’s legal is not always intelligent, but if it’s to be enforced, it should be enforced justly, that is, equally upon all.

        Strelnikov in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 3:15 pm

        “Everything Adolf Hiler did in Germany was legal.” – Dr. ML King.

          DaveGinOly in reply to Strelnikov. | May 6, 2020 at 3:31 pm

          And your point is?

          Absolutely no argument has been made for unlawfulness. So, presuming constitutionality, there is no problem legally. Unfair is the complaint here, as far as I can see. Maybe also unintelligent. In either case, the advocacy should be to change the law, not to ignore what’s in the statute.

          There must be thousands, if not tens of thousands, of workers in NY whose employers are based out-of-state who are paying NY income taxes. That’s the rule. Contest if if you think it unconstitutional. Change it if you think it unwise.

        healthguyfsu in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 4:29 pm

        I think you are bit tone deaf on this, especially if you put it in the context of something like military service.

        Military personnel, being federally paid, can pay their taxes in the state where their primary residence is, even if they are stationed in another state. They don’t have to pay taxes in NY, even if they are stationed in NY.

        So, again, IF these workers are paid by federal and not state funds, then I hope they can legally tell NY to go to hell and file in their home state instead.

          franciscodanconia in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 6, 2020 at 9:26 pm

          When i served in the 90’s I had to pay NY State income tax, I wasn’t allowed to change my home of record due to being single the whole time.

        CommoChief in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 5:05 pm

        DaveGinOly,

        IMO, this is very bad public policy. Under normal circumstances I might agree with you. This is not close to normal.

        These out of state healthcare workers are in N.Y. to augment not replace, the existing workforce during a pandemic in which N.Y. asked for help. To say that these folks should either provide services gratis or be subjected to N.Y. income tax is really too much.

        While it may be legal it is also setting up a future in which anyone who may have been willing to go to another state to relieve stress on the healthcare or other systems will now be forced to weigh the clear disincentive of additional tax complexity.

        I could be wrong but I believe that the next time N.Y. asks for help many will be less willing to go and do so as a result of this short sightedness.

        Wrathchilde in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 7, 2020 at 12:23 pm

        Ok, say I accept your argument. What allows the State of New York to siphon off the earnings of a Samaritan’s Purse employee from another State, who is paid as usual by his company in that other State?

        By this logic, anyone staying 15 days on vacation in New York owes the State a portion of their vacation pay, as it was “earned” while physically within New York? Ludicrous.

      DaveGinOly in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 6, 2020 at 3:22 pm

      BTW, you don’t get taxed based on “where your employer resides.” You get taxed on income according to where the labor or services were provided.

      A worker from another state is potentially displacing a worker native to the state who would be paying the tax. Why should a laborer from another state escape taxation that the state’s citizens are required to pay? The 14 day rule is more than fair, it’s downright generous. The state doesn’t have to allow even one days’ labor within its jurisdiction without taxing it. (Now if you want to argue that there should be no tax on labor, only upon profit from labor, you’ll get no argument here. But that’s also a subject for another discussion.)

      What is unfair is laboring in another state and paying income taxes on your wages in your native state. Your native state is taxing labor that was performed outside of its jurisdiction. (Taxes on income are indirect taxes on activities, occupations, and events, not upon the earnings themselves. The earnings are merely used as a measure to determine the amount of tax. So it doesn’t matter that you “have money” made out-of-state, because it’s not the money that’s being taxed. See Stanton v Baltic Mining Co., in which SCOTUS ruled that taxes on income are by nature indirect taxes.)

        healthguyfsu in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 3:30 pm

        The law is shit in NYC

        LibraryGryffon in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 4:45 pm

        30 years ago I attended SUNY Albany for grad school and received a taxable stipend ($6k). Even though I had earned over half my total income for the year in CT (Approx.$8k) at the time NY said that because I had lived in NY for 50% of the year, I had to work out how much tax I would have paid if I’d lived there 100% and then pay half that.

        So I ended up paying NY tax on an extra grand that had been earned in CT while living in CT. I never figured out why NY should have had any claim on that money. And of course I had pay CT tax on the whole $8k, so that one grand was taxed twice.

        After I graduated I left NY, and have no intention of ever returning.

    danvillemom in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 3:28 pm

    Payment of “out of state” income taxes has been a requirement for many states for several years. I had a co-worker that did extensive travel when our company started tying the airline tickets to the state withholding….so no more self reporting. He ended up having to do seven state taxes to get all his $$ back. Needless to say he cut back his travel in subsequent years.

    alaskabob in reply to DaveGinOly. | May 6, 2020 at 4:25 pm

    Next time NY asks for out of staters to put their lives on the line the save New Yorkers…don’t go. In these hectic and harsh times New York says “thank you” in such special ways. I give a hearty Bronx Cheer to NYC and downstate NY.

American Human | May 6, 2020 at 2:30 pm

Its always the “essential services” such as fire, police, teachers, etc. that they can’t pay. One notices, its not the governor or legislators that they can’t pay.

They shoot themselves in the foot, then charge the person applying first aid for the privilege of helping them. Yeah, this will do them a lot of good.

Idjits.
.

Oregon Mike | May 6, 2020 at 3:05 pm

After they’re through helping out, they should file for New York unemployment.

This is Herr Cuomo looking to pick up dimes while stepping over dollars.

Think about it. Billions in deficit from his horrendous management of the state, as well as terrible management over this Chinese Virus, needing help – even though as things turned out we didn’t overwhelm the hospitals – and then looking to take taxes from these people who came here in good faith. It can’t amount to a huge amount of money, but even if it’s a million – which I doubt, that seems a small price to pay for what was given in a time of need.

This is all to do with getting the Federal government to bail out the state for decades of poor management and unfunded pensions. It just looks to cry poverty over thousands of dollars meant to harm those who voluntarily came to NY to help in an unknown condition, and him giving them the finger.

Cuomo is disgusting. But then he is a leftist tool so this is bidness as usual.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to oldgoat36. | May 7, 2020 at 12:05 am

    Know what everyone else outside of New York state will say?

    “Eat Schiff and Die New York!”

    Same goes for Huey P. Long Cuomo.

Joe-dallas | May 6, 2020 at 3:13 pm

While NY State law along with Coumo’s attitude has some seriously bad optics – its not nearly as bad as first impression.

If the non-resident doctor/nurse/healthcare worker lives in a state with a state income tax, then the resident gets a state income tax credit for the state income tax paid to NYS (not to exceed the tax the resident would have paid if such income was earned in the resident state).

The worst that will happen will be the higher rate on the NY/NYC income ($10,000 NY source income x 10% vs 7% in the residents state = 3% spread x 20,000 = $600.

Its bad – just not as bad as portrayed.

    healthguyfsu in reply to Joe-dallas. | May 6, 2020 at 3:34 pm

    It’s bureaucracy that they shouldn’t have to deal with for helping out in an emergency crisis. Think about how worn out a lot of those people are. Then, they get this news about what they have to deal with on 2021 tax documents. I’d be royally pissed whether it was Cuomo or Abbott, and I’d definitely stay home next time.

    alaskabob in reply to Joe-dallas. | May 6, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    So… for $600 they got the privilege pay for the risks involved? Also, what is the accounting cost for having to file in NY? HUM??

      Joe-dallas in reply to alaskabob. | May 6, 2020 at 4:41 pm

      In my office, its about 6-8 lines of additional input in the software, plus approx 15-20 additional minutes to review process/file so the additional accounting costs are relatively minimumal.

      That being said, the optics are bad –

      This change would require legislation – Coumo could look good requesting legislative relief – but he instead acts like a jerk.

    Yes, the effect on the individual is not as bad as many have assumed, because they will get a tax credit in their home state. They will likely pay more to NY/NYC than the credit they received — that is their direct personal cost. Assuming someone else prepares their taxes, they’ll have to pay to have two state tax returns instead of just one.

    But there are two other implications of this: The home state is losing that tax revenue to NY. Cuomo is griping that he has a deficit in New York, but every dollar of taxes he get from these workers he is taking from the coffers of some other state.

    Second, New York requires tax preparers to register with them in order to prepare New York tax returns. Plus if you prepare more than 10 returns in a year, you must pay a $100 fee and take additional continuing education course specific only to New York. More money to New York’s coffers.

    And don’t forget the burden on these people’s employers to register with New York, withhold NY/NYC tax properly, and then do quarterly and annual NY employment tax reports and W-2s/1099s.

    Yes, it is all legal — but a conscientious governor might work to find a way around this mess, for the good of the health care people.

Subotai Bahadur | May 6, 2020 at 4:03 pm

1. Every out of state volunteer should leave New York [state and city] immediately, no notice just leave and come home.

2. Out of state personnel, unless they are under government orders, should not volunteer to help in any disaster in New York. If ordered to do so by a non-government employer, appeal such assignment.

3. There are going to be those leaving New York as it collapses. Private employers in the other 49 states would be well advised to disqualify anyone whose resume includes government employment in New York City or State. Avoid the infection and limit the number of them who come to your state.

4. They voted for their current government, let them suffer under it.

Subotai Bahadur

Are they going to place a value on the free lodging and meals as well? Might as well tax that benefit while you’re at it.

Friends don’t let friends go to New York. Ever.

NY wants more taxes?

OPEN UP ALL BUSINESS then

Close The Fed | May 6, 2020 at 6:10 pm

I can’t even measure how offensive and outrageous this demand is.

Let New Yorkers stew in their own multicultural virus stew.

No more help ffor them from anywhere.

Volunteers come to help; they overstate the need; they intentionally kill nursing home residents; they spit in our faces.

And some of the volunteers die. Die. Cuomo, you didn’t buy ventilators, you need use the USNS Comfort, you arranged for the deaths of nursing home residents. Just because your memory is better than Joe Biden’s doesn’t mean you’re a decent human being. it just means your hardware isn’t worn out yet.

You ungrateful piece of human sewage.

https://www.kmov.com/news/retired-colorado-paramedic-dies-from-coronavirus-after-volunteering-as-first-responder-in-new-york/article_a71b4738-3080-5bf7-a49f-026287ef3a0f.html

Close The Fed | May 6, 2020 at 6:11 pm

And if Trump lets him get away with this, then Trump should use his federal government pay and give it to NY for some of these taxes.

The contrast between he and Cuomo couldn’t be greater!!!

Disgusting trash!!!!

Are you sure there isn’t ANOTHER reason why your state has a $13 BILLION deficit, governor?

George_Kaplan | May 6, 2020 at 9:22 pm

Doesn’t this open up the possibility of double taxation? Tax will have to be paid where these folk reside, but NY also wants tax based on the fact that their paid volunteer service was longer than 14 days.

Occupational licensing creates even worse problems. When did NY waive licensure rules? Is it even legal for them to? Are these out of state workers violating NY law by working in a licensed profession, as I’m sure many are, without a NY State license?

This is a big problem in Florida. When a hurricane hits, you would expect out of state contractors to flood in and help with reconstruction. They can’t, because they aren’t licensed in FL, which not only means reconstruction takes much longer than it should, it also means the FL licensed contractors get to gouge property owners big time if they want to be first in the queue.

    CaptTee in reply to randian. | May 7, 2020 at 1:55 pm

    I reject the idea of occupational licenses as being a holdover from pre-American Revolutionary times. It also violates the concept of “right to work”.

    That said, Florida often waives requirements or makes it easy for out of state contractors to get licenses.

    In fact, if you only have a 10% VA disability, you can get a county occupational license for free, if you have a Florida address/

Those fools who rushed to save New Yorkers from the shitty government they voted for deserve the knife in their back from rat face.

Taxation without representation is tyranny!

BierceAmbrose | May 7, 2020 at 5:38 pm

Proconsul Cuomo-the-Younger is gunning for Supreme Leader by showing them what they’ll get. Unfortunately, he hasn’t realized that the US isn’t NYS where he’s juiced in with his father’s rolodex n network; n the rest of them aren’t nearly as convinced they’ll be on the inside as his people in NY.

The rest of the country wonders who’ll get to play upstate if they make him Prezzy. He didn’t have to ding people who ran toward the problem to help — that’s just who he is, and the thought he could get away with it.

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