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Will Republicans ultimately fold on impeachment and removal? (Reader Poll)

Will Republicans ultimately fold on impeachment and removal? (Reader Poll)

If Republican Senators break, they will break at once.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/01/politics/trump-inauguration-gigapixel/

Call it a “feeling” or a “hunch” or “my gut.”

But I sense there are many Republicans in Congress waiting for the excuse to get rid of Trump.

Not many have said so, so there’s not much evidence I can point to. Why do I “feel” this way?

The internal Republican pushback on hosting the G-7 at Trump’s Doral resort that caused Trump to cancel the plan, despite doing it at cost, for one; it was a sign of weakness. The media frenzy pushing the public perception needle, two. The comments of Lindsey Graham about being open to more evidence, for three. Mitt Romney joining the Resistance, for four; providing a Republican face to removal. Republicans being the stupid party, for five.

It’s just a crack in the armor, for now. The question is for how long will “for now” continue? And once the dam breaks, will enough Republicans hold?

20 Republicans would have to defect for removal, a tall hurdle, for sure.

I just have this sneaking suspicion that the media pressure is so intense that many weak links will break, and if they break, they will break at once when they find the excuse to do so.

What do you think?

Will Republicans ultimately fold on impeachment and removal? It’s YES or NO. There is no middle ground.

Poll open until Midnight (Pacific Time), Tuesday night October 22.


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Comments

I don’t think they will crack on this issue because they understand that removing Trump from office results in them losing their jobs in 2020, 2022, and 2024 because all the campaigns against them will point out they voted to remove Trump from office on crap charges.

They also remember that one of the things Trump was rumored to be doing during the 2016 campaign was laying the groundwork for a network if he lost. What if he decides to do it after being removed? Trump believes in revenge and would love nothing better than to savage the Republicans every chance he got after they kicked him out of office.

They don’t like Trump but they all understand that destroying him will wipe them out at the same time.

    Gremlin1974 in reply to TheOldZombie. | October 20, 2019 at 11:05 pm

    I agree, if they do the republicans will lose control of the only chamber they have and will not regain control for some time.

      rdmdawg in reply to Gremlin1974. | October 21, 2019 at 1:41 am

      I have not seen any indication in a long time that Republicans think, let alone act strategically. On the contrary, they seem to react to just about everything, usually in the worst way possible.

    iconotastic in reply to TheOldZombie. | October 21, 2019 at 12:12 am

    “…but they all understand that destroying him will wipe them out at the same time.”

    Do they? Many of these RINOs (Murkowski, Collins, etc.) have grown rich and fat living under the thumb of the leftists providing the illusion of political alternatives. Just one that always loses, always confirms extremist judges to the federal bench, and provides calm thoughtful and eminently ignorable soundbites on Sunday.

    I think that a number of these Republican senators would love to destroy Trump and stop the revolting peasants from bothering them at their cocktail parties.

      budmania in reply to iconotastic. | October 21, 2019 at 8:58 am

      Agree 100%. Professor’s #5 says it all…they truly are the Stupid Party!

        Tom Servo in reply to budmania. | October 21, 2019 at 10:33 am

        Upon a lot of thought, I actually don’t think they’re stupid; the actual fact is that a number of them have been playing for the other side for a long time, and lying to their voters about what they really think – Romney case in point, he only ever said he was a “Republican” because the barriers to entry in Massachusetts were lower, and then he leveraged his name and religion to win a seat in Utah. But he’s a corporate liberal democrat all the way, always has been. So are a number of other nominally “conservative” Senators.

        The great irony of the liberal democrat Sinema who was elected in Arizona is that she actually votes more conservatively than so called “conservative” Jeff Flake ever did.

          budmania in reply to Tom Servo. | October 21, 2019 at 11:12 am

          Well said, and I can’t really disagree. I suppose I WISH they were only stupid. But it may be worse than that…Mittens kinda reflects the worst.

Baby Elephant | October 20, 2019 at 9:20 pm

I was a reluctant Trump voter. I would have preferred Cruz. I have not missed an election since I turned 18 and have only voted Democrat for two congressional elections protesting a Republican caught up in the House Banking scandal. If Republicans vote to remove Trump from office I may not vote ever again.

    TheOldZombie in reply to Baby Elephant. | October 20, 2019 at 9:27 pm

    Same here. Ted Cruz was the first politician I ever donated money too. He lost to Trump and I had no problem voting for Trump because even though I wanted Cruz to win I still liked Trump and the fact that he fights back.

    Trump is the second person I’ve ever donated money too.

    Republicans remove him from office and he will be the last Republican that ever gets my money or my future votes.

      rdmdawg in reply to TheOldZombie. | October 21, 2019 at 1:43 am

      … and the Dems win again.

        MarkS in reply to rdmdawg. | October 21, 2019 at 8:06 am

        the repubs loose because they lack backbone.

        TheOldZombie in reply to rdmdawg. | October 21, 2019 at 12:16 pm

        Why would I vote for a party that obviously doesn’t want to fight the Democrats?

        That’s always been the problem with Republicans. They will not fight.

        If they are willing to throw away a fighter like Trump than what’s the point in voting for them anymore?

      zennyfan in reply to TheOldZombie. | October 21, 2019 at 9:31 am

      He will be the last Republican President, full stop. Who would vote for a president they know Democrats will target for impeachment as soon as he or she is elected, and who would vote for a party whose senators vote to remove a president because he’s uncouth, unfaithful, and uncensored? Trump purportedly is being targeted because he offered a quid pro quo targeting a political rival, which as of now has been disproved, and because bureaucrats claim he’s injected politics into diplomacy, as if we don’t elect presidents to change policy. Not for crimes, and not really for emoluments (as SCOTUS is unlikely to find that making money in the normal course of business is an emolument). If Republicans fold on this, the party will die a well-deserved death, as its members have acquiesced in a Star Chamber-like “impeachment inquiry in which their members add little more than pro-forma protests against being excluded.

    wendybar in reply to Baby Elephant. | October 21, 2019 at 6:03 am

    I’m with you. And for people saying the Democrats will win, so what?? What difference does it make anymore if the political class can do whatever it wants in defiance of the American Voters. It’s either don’t vote anymore, or going after them with pitchforks and running them out of town, and I don’t see that happening. The political class doesn’t care about us, if they can do this to a man who has done nothing wrong, and they can make him guilty behind closed doors.

      MarkS in reply to wendybar. | October 21, 2019 at 8:09 am

      I wouldn’t be so skeptical, if Trump is removed for this BS I would expect more than pitchforks being put into use

      Valerie in reply to wendybar. | October 21, 2019 at 12:04 pm

      And for people saying the Democrats will win, so what?? What difference does it make anymore if the political class can do whatever it wants in defiance of the American Voters.”

      This is California, right now.

        txvet2 in reply to Valerie. | October 21, 2019 at 5:27 pm

        If the thought of President Buttplug, Sanders or Warren (much less AOC) along with a Dem Congress doesn’t make you break out in a cold sweat, you haven’t been paying attention.

          Close The Fed in reply to txvet2. | October 21, 2019 at 8:48 pm

          The issue isn’t breaking out into a cold sweat about them, but rather, even if you vote against them, you end up with the same thing.

          This coup makes voting utterly pointless.

          And yes, it’s a coup. We all know it.

Imagine Donald Trump’s resources being used to exact revenge. There will be no safe place to hide for any member of Congress.

The GOP *is* the party of stupid. If they do, that’s the end of the GOP.

    JusticeDelivered in reply to windbag. | October 20, 2019 at 9:58 pm

    I was surprised at how stupid Dems turned out to be, and I know that there are RINOs that stupid, yet I find it hard to believe that the rest of republicans will go along.

    dunce1239 in reply to windbag. | October 20, 2019 at 10:39 pm

    Never Trumpers are hoping the democrats give them a chance to destroy the party in such a way as to duck taking the blame for it.

      VaGentleman in reply to dunce1239. | October 21, 2019 at 1:53 am

      Never Trumpers (like Kristol, etc) are hoping Trump is destroyed in a way that lets them say ‘I told you so’ and revive their self anointed spiritual and intellectual leadership of the conservative movement.

    Anonamom in reply to windbag. | October 21, 2019 at 10:27 am

    What windbag said. And yes, I do think they’re that stupid. I hope that I am wrong, but I have become very, very cynical. We have allowed an entrenched elite to develop, and those elites find us (and anyone who dares to champion us) to be contemptible.

Some may be arrogant or dumb enough to climb on the impeachment wagon but not enough to reach the 67 required.

Nothing has changed in DC. You still have the Establishment Uniparty and President Trump. That is all. Republicans and Democrats are the same. There are no true conservatives in DC and what we call moderates would have been died-in-the-wool liberals 40 years ago. And, every one of them want Trump out.

The problem which faces the Republicans, and some other factions of the Establishment, is what kind of reaction would result from an impeachment and conviction on the nonexistent evidence of nonexistent crimes. The political reaction would be bad enough. However, there is NO way to predict what kind of physical reaction there would be, if any. Trump was elected as a message to the Establishment. And that message was essentially to stop ignoring the desires of half the voters in this country. And, despite what the “polls” say, that half of the voting public does not support or approve of the attacks upon Trump, including impeachment.

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Mac45. | October 20, 2019 at 11:07 pm

    Well put and I agree 100%.

    It is not the fault of elected officials. It is the fault of the electors.

    If only conservatives could get elected, then only conservatives would get elected.

    That is rather elementary knowledge. And yet it hardly ever tempers discussions.

    You don’t like RINOs? Try getting a majority without them.

      rdmdawg in reply to MSimon. | October 21, 2019 at 1:46 am

      94% of the Republican base supports President Trump, and a fair amount of Dems, truth be told. We are eminently capable of putting up conservatives and dumping all the RINOs. Look in to Precinct Captains and get involved.

      Mac45 in reply to MSimon. | October 21, 2019 at 11:58 am

      People can only vote for candidates who are running for office. The problem is that there are no true conservatives running for office anywhere. Occasionally one will crop up and even get elected. The problem is they have no real effect on the Congress. They are either bought off, by the Establishment, or fail to win re-election.

      And, the organized Conservative Movement of the 1990s was coopted by Establishment interests, years ago. That is why the Republican Party was able to treat its conservative base just like the Democrats treat their African-American base; promise them anything and deliver nothing.

      Trump was the ultimate protest vote. Conservative and moderate Republicans and Independents voted for Trump because he was a totally non-Establishment candidate. Many voters did not like him, personally, but they voted for him to send a not so subtle message. The problem was that there were no anti-establishment Congressional candidates running, so, the same old RINOs were returned to their seats. They felt secure and not only did they not heed the will of the electorate, as expressed in the election of Donald Trump, they actively worked against the expressed interests of their constituents. 2 years of Republican Congressional leadership got exactly NOTHING done. Then look at the mass exodus of Republican Congressmen. Hogs do not willingly leave the trough unless it has dried up or they are in personal danger. And the public trough has certainly not dried up.

      The problems in national politics are not the fault of the electorate. It is systemic. There is just too much money and not enough moral fiber involved. Elected officials assume office broke and within 5 years are millionaires. And, it is not because they pinch pennies and save their salaries. The elected officials in this country are all profit driven and will gladly sell themselves to the highest bidder.

      The hunt for an honest man, in politics, continues.

        JusticeDelivered in reply to Mac45. | October 21, 2019 at 6:10 pm

        I have seen some start out honest, then an incredibly corrosive Beltway environment transforms most of them.

        Close The Fed in reply to Mac45. | October 21, 2019 at 8:54 pm

        This really isn’t the problem.

        The problem is that MOST PEOPLE do not understand that their REAL CHOICE is in the PRIMARY.

        And so most people don’t vote in the primaries – just the insider types for the most part…. So insiders win.

        You will never get more people voting in primaries. Just a fact of life.

    bob sykes in reply to Mac45. | October 21, 2019 at 12:22 pm

    The economic historian Peter Turchin notes that extreme discord among our elites is at its highest level since the eve of the Civil War. His own model predicts are era of political violence in the 2020’s. Trump’s removal could be the trigger.

    I was in college in the 60’s. Young people do not remember or know that that was a period of extreme violence. There were hundreds, perhaps thousands, of bombings and very many murders and attempted murders of politicians. Four college students were killed at Kent State, and the country was on the edge of revolution.

    I never want to see those times again. If Turchin is right, we may get a full-scale revolt.

If they remove Trump based on an anonymous rumour … all bets are off. There’s going to be a lot of previously generally tame people going high order.

    CKYoung in reply to BuckIV. | October 20, 2019 at 11:15 pm

    They are absolutely not going to like what they get if they try to pull this off. Impeach away, because we’re going to get great witnesses like comey/mccabe/rice/brennan/clapper/page/strzok… even schiff. The list is long and they will be under oath. But I also want to say, I’ve played by the rules my whole life. Went to school, got a job, served our nation, payed my taxes, voted in every election… and now they are going to use this tin-pot, third-world, banana republic, star-chamber-kangaroo-court to nullify my vote? No, absolutely not. nancy pelosi and gang caught a tiger by the tail, now they’ll have to ride the lightening and earn their just deserts.

      amwick in reply to CKYoung. | October 21, 2019 at 8:24 am

      Levin had Ron Johnson (R Wisconsin) on last night, and in the discussion Mark mentioned that the optics of a Senate trial would be terrible. It would be giving legitimacy to the whole House phony process. I understand about the testimony of people, but, it wouldn’t it be better if they just said that the House was full of Schiff, and took a quick vote?

        Tom Servo in reply to amwick. | October 21, 2019 at 10:36 am

        It would be kind of fun to watch Joe and Hunter Biden both called to testify.

        I have been one who thought the House would impeach no matter what, but now I’m not so sure – their case is falling apart faster than they can put it together. I didn’t think they could do such an abysmally bad job of putting together a case as they have.

Colonel Travis | October 20, 2019 at 9:47 pm

I don’t see impeachment getting off the ground ever. That said, the unending amount of stupid (in this case and in general in America) that is passed off as intellectualism, smart forecasting, brilliant politics, truly-blind justice, love of the Constitution, etc. is off the charts. Never in my life did I expect to see this much crap take root and grow.

99% of everyone who shapes public opinion and policy is, forgive me, a GD idiot.

THE PRESIDENT TALKED TO A GUY ON THE PHONE! IMPEACH!!!!1!!!11

LI is a pocket of sanity. I cannot believe we don’t have more than just pockets. It is absolutely maddening.

Eastwood Ravine | October 20, 2019 at 9:48 pm

No Republican politician is insane enough to vote against Trump when he commands the support of 9 in 10 registered Republicans.

    That’s a key point right there. Going up against Trump based on stupid Dem reasoning will get any sitting Senator or House member primaried, hard. Sure, sucking up to the Dems may get them some crossover votes, but it won’t matter because they’ll never reach the general election.

    The Republicans are dumb, but not that dumb.

    With that in mind, there’s not a chance the Dems will get more than 3-4 votes in the House from Reps who are bailing anyway and have their golden parachutes packed, and 1-2 Senators who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance. I’m betting if the Dems are dumb enough to put this to a vote in the House that we’ll see 10-12 Dems vote *against* it, to save their own hide.

      tom_swift in reply to georgfelis. | October 21, 2019 at 12:45 am

      Going up against Trump based on stupid Dem reasoning will get any sitting Senator or House member primaried

      No, and for the same reason that the Repubs are a suckass party already. The Party will never permit decent candidates to run. They’ll find some way, usually financial, to put the kibosh on anyone who doesn’t meet GOPe approval.

      DJT managed to defeat this machine because he’s phenomenally rich and didn’t depend on the Repub machine for support.

    By his recent comments, Romney is a yea vote

Nope, never going to happen. The cost to the senators that break ranks and vote to remove a duly elected president that is guilty of no crime, not even late on a parking ticket, will be higher than they can bare. They value being senators above all, and that will be the end of that. Pick 3 or 4 that are actually democrats anyway and that is all you get.

Republicans being the stupid party, for five. That’s a HUGE UNDERSTATEMENT.

But I will go with NO – they won’t fold on impeachment.

I really hate articles like this post.
It notches up my anxiety wayyyyyy toooo much!!!

There are enough Flakes to vote for impeachment to retain the party of stupid title, but not enough to remove him. Those want a career in DC mostly recognize that a vote against Trump is voting yourself out of office.

I don’t think enough of them realize Trump is a symptom of the voters anger, though, and keep hoping this will all just go away.

“But I sense there are many Republicans in Congress waiting for the excuse to get rid of Trump.”
****
Other factors that could provide cover for a GOPe coup are:
1) John Roberts, a real snake, would be the presiding officer
2) The trial is conducted using Senate Rules
3)Disputes about the rules and how the trial is conducted are decided by the Presiding Officer and/or a majority vote by the Senators.

    CKYoung in reply to SHV. | October 20, 2019 at 11:27 pm

    roberts will 100% absolutely have to recuse. No way will he ever be allowed to preside when his FISC was used to spy on the Defendant, President Donald J. Trump and his campaign. This was either a huge failure of the FISC (incompetence), the FISC was lied to, or the FISC was corrupt in signing off the FISA warrants. I’m not even sure a full “trail” would be necessary. Read the articles of impeachment, read the call transcript, ask for an immediate directed verdict of “not guilty” and put this sham to bed.

      “roberts will 100% absolutely have to recuse. ”
      *****
      Roberts wouldn’t recuse because of ego and it would be an admission of his role in the corrupt FISC. Also Chief Justice acting as presiding officer during impeachment of POTUS is specified by the Constitution and I don’t think that there would be any way for the Senate to override Article I, Sec. 2, Clause 6 even if they were disposed to do so.

        CKYoung in reply to SHV. | October 21, 2019 at 1:52 am

        Think about it. fbi asks JOHN ROBERT’S FISC for ILLEGAL FISA WARRANTS against PDJT’s campaign? ILLEGAL FISA WARRANTS. Now roberts is going to be THE JUDGE sitting in judgement of the Defendant in a case HIS court issued ILLEGAL WARRANTS??? This may be grounds for an immediate dismissal of all charges ON IT’S FACE.

        If your local police department got an illegal warrant on you, collected evidence, provided said evidence to the DA, the DA filed the case, AND THE SAME JUDGE WHO SIGNED THE WARRANT WAS PRESIDING OVER YOUR TRAIL WOULD YOU BE OK WITH THAT????

        This is beyond insanity, it really is.

          Valerie in reply to CKYoung. | October 21, 2019 at 12:08 pm

          I would be ok with that. Judges really hate being lied to, and if I had evidence of lying by the prosecution, I would want it presented to the guy who has been watching the story all along.

    gonzotx in reply to SHV. | October 20, 2019 at 11:42 pm

    Are you the same SHV that use to comment at Hillaryis44.org?

The vote count is ominous. It seems that all of us are getting this 6th sense of dread…that every day Mitch doesn’t formally come out in public to declare that the Senators will not accept articles of impeachment due to the Dems fraudulent tactics is every day that the dread gets higher that the POTUS will be removed.

    dunce1239 in reply to vmax71. | October 20, 2019 at 10:48 pm

    Mcconnell must wait for the articles to be filed before he takes action. Then he could rush it through and take a vote killing it quickly. Anyone who dared to for it would be a huge target with people all across the nation sending campaign contributions to primary challengers.

    Sonnys Mom in reply to vmax71. | October 21, 2019 at 6:38 am

    That sense of dread is exactly the impact Democrats want to have on you. The left wants you to FEEL hopeless and BELIEVE you are being crushed, that resistance is futile and that President Trump cannot reform government or lift the national economy. All their antics– from antifa harassment and intimidation to star-chamber style “impeachment inquiry” hearings behind closed doors– are executed in order to create an indelible impression in every voter’s mind that they are the ones in charge and their power is insurmountable.

    To which all American patriots should say: “Illegitimi non carborundum”– screw ’em!

Republicans are almost as corrupt as Democrats. It is a cesspool of corruption. They all make money off our stupidity.

simply don’t see it–regardless of who is sitting in the white house, we don’t remove duly elected presidents on hearsay/rumor/gossip evidence–sure, they covet their power/position, their ability to game the system/steal/curry gifts/” donations “–and extend the same to their offspring–but to so blatantly turn their back on the constitution and our way of life is unforgiveable–and regardless their sinecure in office, their wealth, their priveleges, their ” entitlement, ” none of it will matter if the traitors literally do not survive the backlash of the people–and they won’t be able to hide

I don’t think so. It can’t be so easy to remove a president for almost nothing.

I suspect Roberts might try to get to removal; he’s a dangerous one. He doesn’t want another 4 years of conservatism; he wants to remain a swing vote.

But I don’t think the R states would good places to go back to, for R senators who vote to remove if that’s a real possibility. There really could be instability.

If Trump is removed for this much, and after all the other shenanigans, people will come to the conclusion they don’t elect the president. Things were calm after Nixon, having just been reelected a massive landslide, was removed. But those were different times.

    artichoke in reply to artichoke. | October 20, 2019 at 10:56 pm

    On second thought Nixon wasn’t removed, he resigned without even being impeached. He didn’t want to put the country through it. Maybe he could have stayed if he had fought. He had just been reelected with 49 states, so whatever he did or covered up in the election, the country clearly wanted the result of reelecting him. Would he really have been unable to get 34 votes in the Senate?

    Anyway Trump sees that the country needs him to stay, no matter what a mess the fight causes.

      I was alive during that time. Nixon got it right. Everyone had abandoned him. Spying on Democrats? That was too much. Even for Republicans.

        MarkS in reply to MSimon. | October 21, 2019 at 8:17 am

        but spying on republicans is endorsed by almost everyone

        OldNuc in reply to MSimon. | October 21, 2019 at 11:42 am

        I also was alive during the Nixon era and several presidents before. Nixon had no way to bypass the media and get the true story out to the public.

        Trump can get to the public directly, that is going to be the big difference.

        There were only 37 Republican senators and flipping RINOs To vote for removal was already a done deal. Go look up the names of all of those senators.

        If this Senate caves again there will be absolute hell to pay.

    CKYoung in reply to artichoke. | October 20, 2019 at 11:30 pm

    roberts has his own problems in this mess. See my reply to SHV.

Since the “presidential” Mitt Romney just got outed as “Pierre Delecto” on social media, I am thinking that the movement’s leader is now the epicenter of some serious mocking.

Better not! Two words: President Warren.

    Well I’d certainly vote for Pence over her. I would hope there’s a big turnout for the R’s.

    And those people saying they would never vote for an R again on this board, they’re probably foreign shills. Not every R is a RINO even if a lot of senators are.

      zennyfan in reply to artichoke. | October 21, 2019 at 10:03 am

      Are you sure you didn’t mean to type “Russian shills”? That’s the standard line for anyone who opposes a poster’s comments these days. It’s used mostly by leftists, but … . Resorting to this type of ad-hominem attack diminishes not the accused’s comments but rather the accuser. For the record, I was born in the Midwest (to non-immigrant parents, so my citizenship can’t be questioned) and voted Republican my entire life (my first vote as a 21-year-old was for Nixon) until Nevada’s Republicans betrayed their voters by pandering to Hispanic voters and enacting the largest tax increase in the state’s history just months after voters had rejected a similar tax in a referendum. I don’t forget or forgive betrayal. I live in Texas now, so I don’t expect our senators to cave without clear and convincing evidence against Trump, but if other Republican senators provide the votes to convict Trump or bring the vote total close to conviction, I foresee the end of the party. The people are still seething, and they won’t forget or forgive, either.

I would put the chances of impeachment by the House at 100% and removal by the Senate at 1 in 3.

Do not underestimate just how VERY VERY badly the GOPe wants open borders, gun control, and government-run healthcare. It is the only issues they really care about, despite what lies they tell their voters.

The GOPe is gambling that no matter how vile and treasonous their actions are, conservatives will continue to hold their noses and vote for the likes of McCain, Romneycare, and the House of Bush.

Well to play along, can you imagine being the Vichy Republican who openly votes to take down the King but falls short? Hell would have no fury like a Trump out for blood. Then the rest of us join Trump in the hunt.

As much as there is an echo chamber on the Left, many of the “country club” Republicans have one also. Thus Romney and ilk believe the party can rise out of the ashes if they remove Trump. The word “schism” does not even start to describe the permanent loathing that they incur. I always chaffed at the term “country club Republicans” but now I can see that they exist. Just part of the uniparty of ” elites”.

I too have a few gut feelings, Professor, but arrive at a more hopeful conclusion. In large part because I think Trump is a lot smarter and a lot more calculating than people, Dems especially, give him credit for.

Take impeachment – how is it a whistle blower went to the IG/Schiff over that innocuous Ukraine phone call and with so many errors and misconceptions? So many that Schiff found himself backing off from testimony, going to depositions only, closed door discovery from which many republicans have been barred? I’m hopeful Trump set them up and played them – forcing them to play their impeachment hand now so it’s a non-issue by the time 11/2020 gets here. He’s gutted them on the impeachment issue.

About the Hunter Biden thing – all the Dem’s flapping their gums about it is getting them on record in one way or other as a party knowledgeable AND concerned about quid pro quo aka pay for play … how then can they credibly point the finger at Trump’s phone call and NOT the Clinton’s and their pay for play foundation? Influence peddling by the Bidens? In the same way Trump regularly calls out “Fake News!” he ought tell the Dems “You set the Precedent!”

Even the Doral thing … I’m not sure Trump was ever serious about it – but like throwing chum to sharks his critics enjoyed a feeding frenzy, all of them touting the emoluments clause and quid pro quo. All of them now on camera proving they DO in fact know conflict of interest when they see it. All their indignation and Trump didn’t even – but their party members did – the swamp creatures did. I can’t help but feel he’s setting them up to gut them with their own words.

My hope for a while now, is that early next year, the Trump admin will launch an offensive. For 3 years the patriots have gathered a lot of ammo to use in what will surely be a political fire fight. Their ammo is unproven / unsubstantiated accusation. The patriots ammo is Dem actions AND their own confessions that they knew better.

I’m not a lawyer and couldn’t hack that profession as it would tie me in knots. But having read this site for several years now and seen so many people on the D side of the aisle escape prosecution or conviction over inability to prove intent and/or what sounds to me like ignorance of the law – it would be a beautiful thing to see Trump and co. go after the lawless bastards and use their own words to convict them with regard to intent with full knowledge of what the law requires.

I don’t know if that makes sense – it just seems to me that many times Trump is simply baiting them – and after they’ve had their little feeding frenzy, He’s already moved on. I’ve wondered what the point is of some actions – whether just a slight of hand by Trump to occupy them while he gets real work done, or perhaps laying a snare for them that they don’t even recognize and won’t until Trump and co. pulls the trigger.

Lastly, I have hope that John Roberts would run a law-abiding trial in the Senate if it gets that far and that he’d permit no shenanigans. Dems trying Trump in the media is nothing like a Senate trial – or so I’d hope.

By March I hope we start to see indictments of all the spygate traitors, influence peddlers, etc.

But I also fear that all this is just my political naivete talking.

    CKYoung in reply to MrE. | October 20, 2019 at 11:45 pm

    This is an excellent post, almost to the point I want to say “Shhhhh!” The dems STILL haven’t figured out the why and how of their 2016 defeat. Over the months, PDJT has managed to get every top democrat to say in front of the cameras: “No one is above the law, not even the President!” Ok, well if comey/mccabe/brennen/clapper and (((insert surprise face here))) barack obama get indicted… cue the video: “No one is above the law!” said every democrat ever. Then they will be forced to argue the law, not emotion, which has been driving them since election night 2016. Again, your post and the people here are why I love LI so much.

Water Closet, including: Obama spied, Clinton colluded, Biden obstructed, journolists held warlock trials (e.g. trials by press), social media platforms steered and deplatformed, [anti] fascists raged, and Democrats gerrymander the vote. Trump has exposed diverse special and peculiar interests at home, in the Libyan solution, in the Kiev coup, in the social justice-mongering campaigns, and those responsible and profiting from catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform to public scrutiny, which places many people, public and private, domestic and foreign, at risk. That said, beware overlapping and converging interests.

America has two large organized political parties: the Money Party and the Anti-American Party. Between those two parties stand the American people, angry but unorganized.

Americans are tired of lies, slander, and the deconstruction of their country — by the Money Party for profit, and by the Anti-American Party out of sheer hatred for civilization.

Both the Democratic and Republican leadership are mostly either in the Money Party or in its pocket. Many Democrats below the top ranks belong to the Anti-American Party, just as many Republicans below the top ranks are loyal Americans.

Regardless of their nominal party affiliation, you can count on members of the Money Party to assist any effort to remove President Trump.

I don’t believe the republicans are that stupid for a second, but just to be clear:

In such a circumstance going after ONLY the ones that voted with the dems wouldn’t be good enough to satisfy me. The entire GOP, including all those who sat on their thumbs and let such a horrible thing happen, would need to be voted out, and the entire republican party would need to be destroyed.

After voting straight republican for my entire life, I was ready to give up on the GOP in 2015. I was fed up with their feckless useless behavior, lack of vision and globalist big business chamber of commerce policies that had us in endless wars and outsourcing every job possible to either offshore foreigners or onshore foreigners. Then Donald Trump ran for office and from the day he came down that escalator and announced his run for office, I was pulled back to supporting the GOP because Donald Trump was exactly what the country needed. If the GOPe wants to destroy the GOP, they need to just keep opposing Trump.

I would vote straight democrat (for the first time in my life) in every election until all the current republicans are thrown out of office and the GOP is completely destroyed. And I literally HATE the democrats, but I would vote for them and encourage everyone I ever speak to do the same, until all the GOP was destroyed.

Since the USA is a two party system, and that isn’t going to change, the GOP must either be the populist America First party or it must be completely destroyed so another party can rise up that will truly oppose the Democrats and RINO GOPe democrats. Its just that simple.

If they vote to impeach they cede our republic. If they cede our republic the populus will show them why our government was structured to allow the populace to overthrow tyrants via our state rights and our right to bear arms.

    zennyfan in reply to kyrrat. | October 21, 2019 at 10:17 am

    No, we won’t overthrow them, or have a second civil war, or even kill off the Republican Party. The government at all levels is too well armed. It’s possible we could see some Bill Ayers/Timothy McVeigh-type actions, but such misguided actions won’t topple the government and would bring even more retaliation than the left currently is planning. There is no way the people can take back their government outside of the ballot box. If Trump is removed, so too that option.

      Bruce Hayden in reply to zennyfan. | October 21, 2019 at 7:20 pm

      Not even close. At best 200k armed feds (ignoring the military, which would likely be highly unreliable in its NCO ranks). National Guard throughput much of the country wouldn’t be helpful, because they have to be activated by the governor. Against them, >100 million gun owners with probably bearing 400 million guns. Just aren’t nearly enough guns and people trained and willing to use the on the government’s side, probably by an order of magnitude or two.

We (the public and media) speak of “the Republican Party” as if a cohesive whole, singularly focused. It is not.

The Republican Party is a federation of state federations of local business interests; “money talks” – business owners and public corporate executives contribute. … Registered Republicans: This is not a value judgment. My value judgment would be “Republican politicians” are the least worst.

Democrats are also focused on money; much has recently been publish providing evidence.

But the manner in which money flows within these two organizations is vastly different. Democrats are more about a “national machine”; Republicans are “local machines” flowing up (maybe).

Look at Gabbard’s travails (as well as other candidates). Democrat money also flows from business interests but the recurring money has been “union contributions”. The latter makes sense – wealthy liberal states support large unions (municipal and (dwindling) private enterprise).

Trump is an anomaly with funds flowing directly to his campaign; truly Republican in name only. …

Romney is a stereotypical Republican/RINO (same). Another would be Mike Lee selling out jobs to the lowest bidder. Or McConnell another “Manchurian candidate” of Communist China (let’s all revert to the more accurate name; out of the past we have Nixon and Kissinger). Lindsey Graham is perhaps more like Jerry Nadler than any conservative would want to think (both Incels) … The truth behind each RINO is as varied as there are Republican representatives – endless and all inclusive. … Even Rand Paul, Libertarian yet supportive of Kamala Harris (!?).

But, “push come to shove” as “government” has become an increasingly larger share of (dominant over) state economies there is little difference in the motivations between Republicans and Democrats. Both are looking to be better at balancing “vote gathering” with personal enrichment / prestige; the former requires “selling ideas” while latter requires “control over (funneling) government spending”.

In reality campaigns are all about “getting constituents to suspend disbelief” until after they “pull the lever”, “submit their marked sense form”, “poke Chad”, … die, move, …

“Will Republicans cave ?” … It depends.

How is this even a debate?

The stupidest thing the Republicans could possibly do would be to vote against a president of their own party on bogus charges.

Therefore, that’s exactly what they’ll do.

The comments of Lindsey Graham about being open to more evidence, for three.

You can’t put much weight on anything a Senator says at this point. Nothing they say will actually decide an important issue; so they’re free to put out statements which serve to take the heat off them personally.

“I’ll support the President until some real criminal charges become evident” won’t protect a Senator from being harassed in public by jerkwagon New Yorkers, or being mobbed by “reporters” shouting inane gotcha questions.

So, what will keep these mosquitoes off? Arguably, Repubs are hoping that a bland, middle-of-the-road, “I’m open to the evidence” sort of statement is the safest. It commits them to nothing in the future. All it really means is that they’re willing to let Trump do the fighting for now; they know he’s better at it than they are.

Romney’s filthy backstabbing Twitter account exposure today changed the equation. We now find out that Romney and his crew have been not only diminishing Trump but other Republicans also, further, he has been leaking to the press about the 20 Senators he has lined up to impeach Trump.
Romney needs to be removed from office pronto.

    tom_swift in reply to puhiawa. | October 21, 2019 at 5:22 am

    Senators are just about impossible to remove by outside agency. There was one attempt to impeach a Senator in the 1790s, but the Senate refused to act, apparently reluctant to accept the authority of the House to impeach one of its members. In the end the Senate itself expelled the malefactor, and the impeachment died due to lack of a person to impeach.

    There is a Constitutional provision for either house to expel one of its own members by 2/3 vote, but only fifteen Senators have ever been so expelled.

      gospace in reply to tom_swift. | October 21, 2019 at 6:02 pm

      Okay – now I’m going to have to look something up. When the Southern states seceded, they had elected senators. And representatives. Since only 1/3 of the Senate is up for reelection each year, some of those Southern senators could have claimed their seats in Washington. Especially since – they were elected before secession and the extant federal government never recognized secession. Did any of those senators show up for Senate sessions?

Romney is the worst kind of person, rotten to the core

The thing about weak links is that only one breaks.

Remember Trump’s crime. Moping with intent to creep, as Liddy put it.

Good grief.

The House Democrats don’t even have enough votes to open an Impeachment Inquiry, and we’re supposed to be afraid that there will be a sudden surge in opinion that will result in a formal impeachment inquiry, an impeachment, a senate trial, and a conviction and removal from office?

Why not just predict that the next media narrative will finally be the one to get him, and he’ll resign in shame.

ScottTheEngineer | October 21, 2019 at 6:22 am

This is the press whipping up anger. Until I actually see Mitt Romney attack Trump or say anything about a vote I’ll wait for the retraction. Everything I’ve read about it is someone saying that Romney said something. I’m sure he doesn’t like Trump as a friend but you can’t argue with results.

They have the same thing going with reporting on Syria. They’re always sure to mention that so and so is against it. They never mention that Turkey is a NATO ally or the fact that Syria is a sovereign country and we weren’t invited in.

I don’t think Trump has much too worry about for this impeachment effort, however, I think the country has an infinitely more important concern that must be addressed. That concern is how the media has created this crisis out of whole cloth and has convinced so many to go along with it as though it was real.
>
The media in this country has become united in their virulent hatred for anything/anyone conservative. Look to their treatment of Antifa, the Leftist led riots where ever Trump holds a rally, the absence of any condemnation of the violence and such against Republicans, etc., all while condemning everything Republican.
>
Ever since Nixon, every single Republican president has been investigated and the issue with Trump is nothing more than the logical continuation of this scheme. What does this portend for any future Republican president? Investigation, demands for impeachment, and worse. This means the real threat to our nation is not China, Russia, communism, illegal immigration, or anything else, rather it is our so called free press who have become nakedly partisan in their attempts to manipulate the nation with their propaganda. They have morphed from being a watchdog into an enemy of the state. So who will be their watchdog? Certainly not the internet.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Cleetus. | October 21, 2019 at 2:42 pm

    RE: “The media in this country has become united in their virulent hatred for anything/anyone conservative.”

    But the media has been that way for decades and decades – at least back to the 1930s.

    They just hid their extreme bigotry better then.

2smartforlibs | October 21, 2019 at 8:27 am

I understand the propaganda machine thinks we legislate by-poll but we have laws in the US and they will be followed no matter what the knuckle draggers think.

They will cave only if they resign themselves to being the minority party again for 40 years. I would never gain cast a vote for anyone with an (R) by their name.

I’m not a fan of Trump the man but am of Trump the politician. For the Senators to betray him would be unforgivable based on the “evidence” at hand.

“The only thing that can stop this corrupt machine, is you. The only force strong enough to save our country, is us. The only people brave enough to vote out this corrupt establishment is you, the American people. Our great country has come upon a moment of reckoning.” DJT

Time to rise up and be heard. We have ourselves a fighter – are we ready to get behind him and fight too? I know I am. Let’s roar!

With a steady, undaunted commitment, Trump and associates are uncovering the sequestered bodies of administrations past, and public and private special and peculiar interests, here and abroad.

What poll?

Have you noticed that Trump has not made a single recess appointment? Not one. The reason is that the Senate, which has been under “republican control” for the last three years, has continuously used consent decrees to never officially be “in recess” since Trump became president. They’ve all passed by unanimous consent, which means that every single senator is part of the coup. Including EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN SENATOR.

We can only guess at their motives, but my opinion is that they don’t want Trump to appoint someone to ODNI or FBI who isn’t on their anti-Trump team, because they are all part of the coup and/or compromised in some fashion. I’d love to hear an alternate explanation.

So, yes, impeachment and removal from office is a possibility.

Here’s just one example.

ORDERS FOR FRIDAY, AUGUST 2, 2019, THROUGH MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 2019

Mr. McCONNELL. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that when the Senate completes its business today, it adjourn, to then convene for pro forma sessions only, with no business being conducted, on the following dates and times, and that following each pro forma session, the Senate adjourn until the next pro forma session: Friday, August 2, at 1 p.m.; Tuesday, August 6, at 9 a.m.; Friday, August 9, at 9 a.m.; Tuesday, August 13, at 12:30 p.m.; Friday, August 16, at 3 p.m.; Tuesday, August 20, at 9 a.m.; Friday, August 23, at 9:15 a.m.; Tuesday, August 27, at 10 a.m.; Friday, August 30, at 5 p.m.; Tuesday,
September 3, at 1 p.m.; and Friday, September 6, at 8:30 a.m.
I further ask unanimous consent that when the Senate adjourns on Friday, September 6, it next convene on Monday, September 9; and that following the prayer and pledge, the morning hour be deemed expired, the Journal of proceedings be approved to date, the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day, morning business be closed, and the Senate proceed to executive session and resume consideration of the Craft nomination; finally, notwithstanding the provisions of rule XXII, the cloture motions filed during today’s session ripen at 5:30 p.m., Monday, September 9.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2019/08/01/senate-section/article/S5321-3

The Republicans, with rare exceptions, are invertebrates.

Republicants and RINO’s always manage to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.

“Republicans being the stupid party”? Spot on but exceeded by their collective gutlessness. I have never seen a bigger collection of weiners in my life.

They damn well better not. And if they do, they’d better have plans in place to vanish for a LOOONG time, because there are literally hundreds of thousands of American citizens whose vote for Trump for President will have been overturned by the lackeys of the Administrative State. This is how civil wars start.

Trump needs to declassify documents that show all the politico’s on right and left they have used their position/power to make them and their close associates wealthy.

It’s long past time to play smash mouth politics and Trump is just the man for the job!!

I think that perhaps, the author’s concentrated efforts to list possible reasons for the Republican’s potential caving in on the democrat’s contrived impeachment efforts (even in the face of the absence of any impeachable offence committed by President Trump), is a direct example of “a sign of weakness”.

If Republicans break, it will mean the end of the Republican Party and signal great danger for the Republic.

Trump was the reason many did not vote for “none of the above 3rd parties” last time.

Should the Republicans drop the ball this time, what follows is guaranteed.
The disintegration of America as you know it. The end of the Constitution and quite likely, civil war, secession and ultimately the restoration of a new Confederacy adhering to a new Constitution.
The Left and the corporatist globalist elites on the coasts will continue their plunge to totalitarianism, economic destitution and despair. Borders will be created on one side to keep them out and on their side, to keep them in.
Life will go on.

I don’t think we should be rattled by Mitt’s statements. Martin Armstrong proposes that the Democrats know their far left candidates guarantee a loss in 2020. Wall Street will not donate to them. Armstrong says the Dems and the financial class would rather lose to Romney.
If that is the understanding, it would explain Mitt’s recent chirpings and the timing of them.

All I know is that all of the people predicting and praying for the end of the GOP had better start thinking about what is going to replace it. Nature hates a vacuum. There is already a Conservative Party. Nobody votes for it. There is also a Libertarian Party. Almost nobody votes for it. There’s also a “Green Party”, but I doubt many people will consider it a reasonable alternative. No, the fact is, we’re still stuck with the Republican Party with all of its warts and weaknesses until and unless a viable alternative comes along – and I don’t see any Lincolns out there. The closest we have is Trump, and I haven’t seen any indication that he’s going to form his own political party.

    President Trump has the money, the voters, and the will to form a new Trump populist party should the GOPe and democrats ever separate him from the GOP.

    That’s what would come next. If Trump didn’t create a new Trump party, then it wouldn’t matter what came next as the uniparty is now and has been for quite a while destroying the country.

    If the GOP were that insane, I would be more worried about something else ANYTHING ELSE not coming next.

      txvet2 in reply to garybritt. | October 21, 2019 at 4:05 pm

      The BIG problem with that is the 22nd Amendment. If Trump wins re-election as a Republican, he won’t be eligible to run again and it won’t matter what he does, he won’t have enough coattails as a lame duck/ex-president to form a new party – unless he’s backing another strong candidate, and even then, it’s highly unlikely he would succeed. He doesn’t have time to form a new political party before next year’s election, and if he acted like he was going to he’d be impeached and out of the White House in days.

      The Republican Party was formed BEFORE Lincoln ran for President, and that’s the only way a new party will be formed now. The alternatives are the Republican Party or one-party rule effectively forever. Welcome to the USSA.

    CKYoung in reply to txvet2. | October 21, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    The MAGA Party. I would join.

      txvet2 in reply to CKYoung. | October 21, 2019 at 5:16 pm

      Great. I’m with you. Who’s your candidate for President in 2024? Who will be your candidate for the House and the Senate? How about state and local races? Where is your state and local organization? You’re going to have to build ALL of those things from scratch. Who are your big money guys? I don’t say it’s impossible, but it takes a lot more than sitting on your tail commenting on LI, and frankly that’s all I’ve seen so far.

        Close The Fed in reply to txvet2. | October 21, 2019 at 9:56 pm

        Amen, TxVet2.

        CKYoung in reply to txvet2. | October 21, 2019 at 11:17 pm

        Commenting on LI is one of many things I’m doing. I’m ready to leave the GOP if they can’t find their way out of the wilderness. PDJT has hacked a path out, laid down golden tracks and built a beautiful high speed train with plenty of seats for everyone. If they can’t jump on board, then likely I’m out. I happen to think many are breaking away from the uni-party model and opening up to the MAGA/KAG agenda. I’ll start with my VFW friends, American Legion and NRA. I’ll also write and make appointments with my representatives. 2024 isn’t far off, but it’s a lifetime regarding politics. Cliche, but we are AmeriCANs, not American’ts.

    Gremlin1974 in reply to txvet2. | October 21, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    We don’t need to end the GOP. The GOP just needs what I call a reverse administrative enema, start at the top and clean the crap out from there down.

This is liberal troll bait! The R’s are not going to impeach Trump. Period! We needn’t beat up on all of the RINOS because we need them to stop this nonsense. There will be no collapse of the party over this. Many of them are stupid but not suicidal!

My vote is NO.

Yes, Republicans are the Stupid Party, but they’re not *that* stupid. At least I sincerely hope not; if it turns out that they are, then it won’t end well.

There are a lot of people who predict a civil war coming soon anyway, as a result of the extreme division in our country. Maybe, just maybe, diversity isn’t our strength at all! (Perhaps diversity + proximity = violence; that seems more accurate to me.)

I’m sorry that there isn’t an actual poll for this “Reader’s Poll,” it would’ve been interesting to see how the numbers worked out as to the likelihood of Republican caving. Oh well, I found the comments extremely interesting anyway!

As it stands sixteen GOP house members and four GOP Senators are retiring; Isakson of Georgia is retiring at the end of 2019 due to legitimately serious health reasons. For instance he has Parkinson’s.

I really don’t care about the sixteen GOP house members since impeachment is in my view a foregone conclusion. If a WH staffer reported that Trump farted in her presence in the Situation Room the house Dems would impeach him over that. And I expect the Dems to peel off some of members of surrender wing of the house GOP caucus but, who cares? That’s meaningless.

I don’t expect any of the three Senators who will simply not stand for reelection in November 2020; Alexander of Tennessee, Enzi of Wyoming, and Roberts of Kansas, to support removing Trump from office. As for Isakson, the Republican governor of Georgia will appoint his replacement (a special election will be held in November 2020 to choose a Senator to serve out the remaining 2 years of Isakson’s term) so I’m sure that’s another “no” for removing Trump from office. After all, Isakson’s appointed replacement will almost certainly want to win that special election, and voting to remove Trump would be career suicide.

I expect Collins to vote to remove Trump from office since she’s already under attack for voting to confirm Kavanaugh and is likely to lose her seat. Unfortunately for Collins that’s going to one pander to the Maine electorate that’s too little too late. Romney is already a joke, and he both detests and is jealous of Trump. I expect Pierre Delecto’s ego to compel him to vote with the Dems if it’s the last thing he does in politics. Which it will be. Murkowski is a toss-up.

But that’s it. Since all the Dems will vote to impeach Trump it doesn’t matter how many turncoats there are in the house. And the Senate GOP won’t have enough defectors to remove Trump. So I got my “no” vote in just under the wire.

Terence G. Gain | October 25, 2019 at 8:26 am

If Republicans cave on impeachment, it will mean that they have endorsed the coup initiated by Clinton/Obama. And it will be the end of the party.

Terence G. Gain | October 25, 2019 at 8:26 am

If Republicans cave on impeachment, it will mean that they have endorsed the coup initiated by Clinton/Obama. And it will be the end of the party.

I suspect those who are members of the Progressive party may well do so. But their careers will like be short.

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