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49 Murdered, 48 Injured at Two Mosques in New Zealand Terrorist Attack

49 Murdered, 48 Injured at Two Mosques in New Zealand Terrorist Attack

Prime Minister: “It is clear that this can now only be described as a terrorist attack.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkoLG9p7RH0

At least one shooter murdered 49 people and seriously injured 20 more at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Authorities arrested four people (one has since been released) and charged one man with murder. From Sky News:

The Christchurch terror attack suspect calls himself Brenton Tarrant in social media posts.

He is believed to have written the 74-page manifesto which explained who he was and the reason for his actions.

The gunman live-streamed the attack showing the pictures on social media platforms.

41 people died at the al Noor mosque, 7 died at the Linwood Islamic centre, and one passed away at the hospital.

Tarrant claimed he wanted to “create an atmosphere of fear” and “‘incite violence’ against Muslims.” He named other extremists like “Finsbury Park mosque attacker Darren Osborne and Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Behring Brevik.”

Tarrant posted a long manifesto on social media, which the authorities have started to probe. He wrote about his hatred for Muslims, idolized American mass shooters, and donated to numerous white supremacist groups.

He also livestreamed himself as he massacred innocent people. Social media outlets like YouTube and Facebook continue to track down the man’s video and remove it.

Apparently it showed the shooter entering the mosque, spraying bullets around him for two minutes. He then left to reload and went back inside. He left the mosque when he heard emergency vehicles.

New Zealand police commissioner Mike Bush described the attacked as “very well-planned.” The police will place armed guards at mosques for the time being.

The authorities “do not believe there are any other suspects but said it was still an open investigation.” Bush did not tell the media if they believe this man committed both attacks and they are still determining “roles of the two others currently in custody.” From The Associated Press:

New Zealand police say their investigation into mass shootings at two mosques in Christchurch has extended 360 kilometers (240 miles) to the south where homes have been evacuated around a “location of interest” in Dunedin.

A police statement gave no further detail of how the location might be linked to the attacks in Christchurch that claimed at least 49 lives.

Police say homes around the location in Dunedin have been evacuated as a precaution.

Three people are being held in Christchurch, including one who has been charged with murder, and police say two improvised explosive devises were found in a car.

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern called Friday “one of New Zealand’s darkest days.” She said the attacker has “extremist views, that have absolutely no place in New Zealand and in fact have no place in the world.”

She added: “It is clear that this can now only be described as a terrorist attack.”

Christchurch Hospital have 48 patients from “young children to adults and the injuries range from minor to critical.” The hospital also has “12 operating theaters” and noted that “some patients will need multiple surgeries.”

Witness Accounts

Fox News has accounts from witnesses:

Witnesses said the Masjid Al Noor mosque was full for Friday afternoon prayers when the shooting occurred. Len Peneha told the Associated Press that he saw a man dressed in black enter the mosque and then heard dozens of gunshots. That was followed by terrified mosque-goers running from the terror. A suspect was seen outside, fleeing after dropping what appeared to be a semi-automatic weapon, witnesses said.

“I saw dead people everywhere,” one nearby resident said.

Another witness told TVNZ he saw three women shot and bleeding outside the mosque. A third witness said a suspect fired more than 50 shots, Stuff.co.NZ reported.

“He had a big gun and a lot of bullets and he came through and started shooting, like, everyone in the mosque, like, everywhere, and they have to smash the door and the glass from the window and from the small door to try and get out,” he said.

Another witness said the man started shooting outside and continued once he got inside the mosque. He said he “saw people dead in front of” him.

One man described how his friend attempted to take down the shooter:

A survivor at the Linwood mosque said a friend of his jumped on a gunman.

Syed Mazharuddin said his friend “saw an opportunity and pounced on [the gunman] and took his gun”. There were people waiting for the gunman in a car and he fled.

One man told CNN that all he could do was wait and “praying to God, oh God please let this guy run out of bullets.”

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Comments

The “manifesto” is a jumbled bunch of nonsense. He’s a “white supremacist” who has been influenced by the writings of Candace Owens, a black woman? He’s a big believer in environmentalism and workers’ rights, yet the nation he most closely identifies with philosophically is China, the world’s biggest polluter and exploiter of workers?

The manifesto writer is either a nutjob or the world’s biggest troll.

    Arminius in reply to Observer. | March 15, 2019 at 11:56 am

    So what? The point of having a manifesto isn’t to believe in it or agree whit it.

      Observer in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 12:03 pm

      The point of having a manifesto is to make a declaration of one’s beliefs, and his are contradictory and nonsensical.

        Arminius in reply to Observer. | March 15, 2019 at 12:29 pm

        I entirely agree. The point I was making is not that fervency of the belief makes the belief true. Just that the manifesto tell you abuot the belief of the perpetrator, not matter how true or false.

        What amazes me is how selectively the supposed authorities believe these manifestos. “Oh, a white supremacist We believe your manifesto” as opposed toe “ISIS supporter pledging allegiance to the Islamic State.” No, that can’t be it.

          Observer in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 12:55 pm

          Yep.

          When a self-professed admirer of prophet Muhammad shot up a gay bar in Orlando in 2016 and killed 49 people, the media assured us that Muhammad’s “hateful” words about homosexuals (e.g., “they should be thrown from a great height, then stoned”) were totally not to blame.

          When a self-professed Trump admirer shot up a mosque in NZ in 2019 and killed 49 people, the media assured us that Trump’s “hateful” words about muslims (we should limit immigration from terrorist hotbeds where vetting is impossible) were completely to blame.

          Milhouse in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 3:37 pm

          Actually Mohammed’s words about homosexuals were almost certainly not to blame for the Orlando massacre. It appears that the terrorist may not even have known what sort of club it was. He chose it at the last minute, when he decided that his original target, Disney World, was too hard. So blame Mohammed, sure, but not those words in particular.

          Milhouse in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 3:40 pm

          The point I was making is not that fervency of the belief makes the belief true. Just that the manifesto tell you abuot the belief of the perpetrator, not matter how true or false.

          It doesn’t tell you about what he actually believes, only about what he wants you to think he believes. When he knows it will be examined and used as a weapon, he should be assumed to have had that in mind when writing it, and it should therefore not be taken at face value.

          hrhdhd in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 10:47 pm

          At least one news source notes from several witnesses that the Pulse shooter visited the club for years prior to the attack.

          Voice_of_Reason in reply to Arminius. | March 16, 2019 at 8:38 am

          @ Milhouse, who said, “Actually Mohammed’s words about homosexuals were almost certainly not to blame for the Orlando massacre. It appears that the terrorist may not even have known what sort of club it was.”

          that’s utterly false. he had been there before, and knew exactly what it was.

          Milhouse in reply to Arminius. | March 17, 2019 at 2:19 am

          At least one news source notes from several witnesses that the Pulse shooter visited the club for years prior to the attack.

          And that report turned out to be wrong.

          that’s utterly false. he had been there before, and knew exactly what it was.

          No, he had not been there before. After deciding not to attack Disney, he googled “downtown Orlando nightclubs” and this was one of several options he found. He even asked a security guard why there were so few women there.

          The FBI searched thoroughly for any evidence that he had been to the club before, that he was secretly gay, and/or that it was an anti-gay “hate crime”, and could not find any.

      notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Arminius. | March 16, 2019 at 6:08 pm

      Muslim On Muslim Violence and War on their fellow believers should be at the forefront of all conversations and articles about this.

      Why shouldn’t we believe this is a deliberate act to…..
      “fill in the blank.”

    Arminius in reply to Observer. | March 15, 2019 at 12:17 pm

    This is where the war on the First Amendment leads. The First Amendment guarantees several freedoms, among which is free speech. When you adhere to an ideolog that you can say anything about anything without fear of violence, that ideology will preach that there must be no violence.

    When you adhere to an ideolog that speech is violence, you guarantee that there will be violence.

    When you adhere to an ideology that any criticsm from an opposing ideology is anathema and therefore violence, you invite invit3 violence from the non-adherents.

    Free speech is how you settle disputes without violence. What we have in the ironically named Christchurch is what speech suppression looks like.

    MarkS in reply to Observer. | March 15, 2019 at 5:59 pm

    I’m going with “nut job troll”. He’s playing every media pre-conception of the white male

Hes probably admiring the Chinese for putting Muslim minorities in concentration camps.
But, yeah, nut job.

A ‘terrorist’ attack  based upon what the killer wrote, said, and did?

No, no. I have it on good authority that the aftermath of these horrors requires officials to bewilder about the suspect’s motive, speculate about mental illness, declare ‘lone wolf’ status upon the suspect that in no way reflects upon a greatet population.

Seriously though, I disagee with the Islamuc ideology for many reasons, but no one – no one – deserves to be skaughtered by some wack-a-doodle venting his spleen by emptying his magazines into innocent victims.

Please pray for the survivors and all the families.

    MSM:

    2016: Pulse nightclub shooter’s professed admiration for prophet Muhammad is totally irrelevant to the massacre!

    2019: NZ mosque shooter’s professed admiration for President Trump is totally the cause of the massacre!

    “A ‘terrorist’ attack based upon what the killer wrote, said, and did?”

    I hate to break the bad news to news to you, but yes. A terrorist attack is defined by what it is intended to accomplish.

    In fact, we in the USG have a working definition of terrorism.

    “The use of violence or the threat of violence, particularly against civilians, to force political change.”

    For instance, the 2004 Madrid subway bombings were committed by Islamists who wanted Spain to withdraw its troops from coalition ops in the ME.

    It worked. They did.

    On the other hand we still have no idea why Stephen Paddock killed all those people in Las Vegas. So we can’t say it was an act of terrorism.

    Note how I use the word we as if I’m still in the game. Intel. It’s kind of like once a Marine, always a Marine. Old habits die hard, especially when you don’t want to kill them off.

    All acts of mass murder are pure evil. Should we capture the killer alive, we must punish the killer equally. Which I hope includes the possibility of execution. But some mass killings are simply mass killings as opposed to terrorism or genocide.

      gospace in reply to Arminius. | March 15, 2019 at 4:36 pm

      The government knows exactly why why Stephen Paddock killed all those people in Las Vegas. But has chosen not to inform us.

      Is that a conspiracy theory? Why, yes it is. But then, 5 years ago, believing that the FBI and CIA would conspire to overturn a U.S. election would have been a whackjob thought. Yet here we are with evidence that it happened.

There is no pile of bodies so high that some politician will not climb it in order to increase their volume. AOC just did.

Now how can this be? Isn’t Australia suposed to be the Utopian dream of gun control through gun confiscation.
And while we’re at it doesn’t this sound like an made for MSM moment.(just on the wrong continent.)

    tom_swift in reply to Shadow5. | March 15, 2019 at 10:56 am

    New Zealand doesn’t have any nukes it can rattle to keep those gun owners in line.

    mailman in reply to Shadow5. | March 15, 2019 at 10:56 am

    NZ dumb arse!

    And yes…NZ already has “common sense” gun laws. Be interesting to see how this guy got his.

    Milhouse in reply to Shadow5. | March 15, 2019 at 3:46 pm

    Isn’t Australia suposed to be the Utopian dream of gun control through gun confiscation.

    Um, yes, but how is that relevant?

    Much more to the point, NZ has some fairly strict laws on this too, and yet they don’t seem to have prevented this.

      Milhouse…

      Shadow5 probably mentions Australia because the shooter is from Australia…

      alaskabob in reply to Milhouse. | March 15, 2019 at 7:36 pm

      The prime minister said that NZ gun laws will change. Reminds me of a leaking pipe fitting… the only answer they have is keep tightening down with wrenches even though it never stops leaking.
      Eventually one destroys the fitting and it really leaks.

      There have been so many “first steps” for this or that law, either they can’t count or hope others can’t either. New Zealand prides itself on its sheep and now through more laws on its sheeple.

My heart goes out to those with loved ones killed at the Mosque. A horrific act of terrorism.

I suspect that this act may be marked in history as the beginning of open warfare in the West. Did Muslims really think they could look away and even cheer the escalating daily terrorist attacks, rapes, and endless atrocities committed in our communities? Did they really think that there would never be any reciprocal acts?

I understand many, if not most, Muslims are as horrified by Muslim terrorist attacks as we are of this shooter. I totally get that good and evil is in each one of us and I am in no way condoning this evil act. The people in the Mosques did NOT deserve it. It is heartbreaking.

But here is how I see this going forward: Muslims will reciprocate with more terrorist attacks in response to this. The West, already fed up, will be further antagonized and the pogroms will begin. Many good people, of all faiths and walks of life will needlessly die. None of this had to happen.

    tom_swift in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 11:02 am

    I understand many, if not most, Muslims are as horrified by Muslim terrorist attacks as we are of this shooter.

    Perhaps. But I’m aware of no reason at all to believe it, and I’ve been on the lookout for one since 9/11.

      you may be right. I don’t know. Unlike in the West, their faith teaches these acts are good. However, I still WANT to believe that it is more a akin to the response of many good people toward the KKK or slavery. They did not fight against it, but in their hearts did not approve.

    alaskabob in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 11:07 am

    No worries … a coordinated Muslim attack in U.S. Would be blamed on NRA, Trump, conservatives, Christians, Jews, Keebler cookies, Twinkies…anything but a clash of cultures in part from the tsunami of immigrants without assimilation or based on devout religious commands.

    The West will react stronger to this than an Islamist attack. The sad question…Will the reaction be based on reason and not on emotion?

      You are 100% correct, but at some point that does not work anymore. I hope that the journalists and the other lackeys who make money of their propaganda realize they are on the front lines of the battle.

      And it is a battle now. I can guarantee you that Muslims will shoot up either a church or a synagogue in the next 30 days. And thus it begins.

    thalesofmiletus in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 11:29 am

    Did Muslims really think they could look away and even cheer the escalating daily terrorist attacks, rapes, and endless atrocities committed in our communities? Did they really think that there would never be any reciprocal acts?

    With respect, you’re blaming the cape and not the matador. Muslims are being inserted into every corner of Western nations — who’s doing that?

      I’m not blaming the cape, to the contrary. You are right. The globalists are attempting to bring down western civilization by flooding us with those who do not share any of the values that made it great and in fact despise it. It’s not like we don’t have enough home-grown idiots to begin with.

      Once they have broken down the family, the church, education, and our ability to defend ourselves, they will traffic us around the world for cheap labor. Just like cattle or soybeans.

      But that does not change what will happen next. I said in the next 30 days a church or synagogue will be attacked in retaliation. But I would not be surprised if it didn’t happen in the next 3 minutes.

      People will only take so much before they fight back. While it may not be THIS incident that sparks open rebellion, if they further escalate violence in our communities, it’s not likely that we will all just lay down and die.

        elle in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 11:50 am

        But looking on the bright side, at least our global masters will provide us with free, health care, education food and living accommodations. Just as they did for the Africans trafficked in the 18th century.

      “With respect, you’re blaming the cape and not the matador.”

      What about the bull?

    JusticeDelivered in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    When I saw this article my thoughts were similar, yet we are far down in the comments. I look at the history of Muslims, look at how they have acted in western countries who have allowed them to settle, and what I see are people who are incompatible with Western values and norms.

    I agree that this guy has a few loose screws. I also think that Western civilization will have to expel or kill many if not all the Muslims in our midst. Eventually they will force the issue, and we will not have any viable alternative.

    MarkS in reply to elle. | March 15, 2019 at 6:05 pm

    Show us a Muslim group which has condemned an Islamic terror attack or lifted a finger to aid the Middle East Christians being killed by Muslims

In comparing his actions to past atrocities, the MSM and the west’s political class will NOT mention the attacks on Christian churches throughout the middle east by Muslims.

The same pols and journalists who will remind us not to condemn all Muslims for the attacks by a few will then condemn and penalize all gun owners for this attack.

In the same spirit as those blaming Trump, I submit that the biggest single causes of fear and hatred toward Muslims are heresy laws and apostasy laws.

Prohibitions against criticizing the religion and its practices create a pressure cooker.

The fact is that Orthodox Jews share many dietary laws with Muslims, and there have been incidents where Orthodox Jews have refused to sit next to women on airplanes.

But everyone can comment on this, criticize it, be an atheist or apostate, without fear of being mugged, arrested, or killed.

The result is that people with radically different beliefs, customs and ideas manage to live side by side.

    Have you seen an orthodox Jew cutting off someone’s head or blowing themselves up on a bus or hacking children to death?

    Sharing the same food traditions is a weak point. America’s favorite food is a cheeseburger – same as the preference for most death row inmates for their last meal.

Unfortunately there is too much evil in the world. It takes many forms and has more weak excuses for it’s criminal actions. I hope if confronted with some form of evil, I would be up to the task.

Unfortunately there is too much evil in the world. It takes many forms and has more weak excuses for it’s criminal actions. I hope if confronted with some form of evil, I would be up to the task.

This is a tragic, unnecessary act of violence but I will say this. First, I quote the article “Tarrant claimed he wanted to “create an atmosphere of fear” and “‘incite violence’ against Muslims.”” Well, that’s what the Muslims do. They’re murdering innocent people all over the globe for their devil worshiping religion. Guess they’re upset when someone turns the guns onto them in a “safe place”. Why do these leaders allow them into their countries then scratch their heads when there are acts of violence and hate? It’s insane. Send them all back home. It’s never going to stop otherwise.

    JusticeDelivered in reply to redbirdacres. | March 15, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    The difference is that the West excels in science and war, we can if necessary kill on a far larger scale scale than Muslims. I am reasonably certain that they will make such necessary. Look at their history.

Terror begets terror.

They don’t tell you that in the jihad academies.

Time out. At this point we really have very little idea exactly what is at work here. We have very little information on Tarrant. So, at this point we have very little information on what this attack was actually about. Remember this, people LIE. They lie all the time, even when the truth will serve them better. So, until we know more about Tarrant, his weaponry and who and what else may be involved in this incident, his “manifesto” is interesting, but not conclusive.

To illustrate the problems here, Tarrant is already being identified as a far right, conservative terrorist. Yet his manifesto describes him as being most closely allied, ideologically, with the People’s Republic of China. Given China’s political leanings, wouldn’t this make him a liberal, rather than a conservative? This is only one of the problems that politicians and the media are creating.

We will have to see what information authorities excavate concerning Tarrant, his enablers [if any] and his true motivation. That is, of course, if they ever release that information.

    Terence G. Gain in reply to Mac45. | March 16, 2019 at 8:19 am

    Tarrrant said he is not a conservative. He describes himself as an Eco-fascist worried about overpopulation, so he decided to kill some members of the ideology producing the most children. He also lamented the browning of Australia. So, based on these statements, why isn’t anyone blaming AOC and David Duke rather than legitimate critics of Islam and its conquest ideology, I ask facetiously.

    I do not believe Muslims in America will respond with their own terrorist attacks, as that would neutralize the propaganda value of this horror , but they will certainly milk this atrocity to demand that critics of Islam be silenced, even critics who oppose Islam because they decry violence.

Stop bringing Islam in to Judeo-Christian countries.

As an ex Chicagoan living in leftist NZ, I reject terrorist attacks which this was.

However I also reject all the Shite which is Islam and all mosques and their Islamic teachings.

I won’t be surprised if Crusades starts again.

NZ left ‘mourns’ while I think ‘meh’ ….

    I disagree that the West will have any significant violent attacks against Muslims. In Europe any pride in Western Civilization, freedom of speech, religion, etc. has been purged. Fascism tends to involve a lot of young angry people like Antifa. They have only tiny numbers like that in USA and Europe. So there will be no fascist revolt against the left. In USA we have not yet fully expunged Western Civilization so there may still be hope. I think Western Europe gradually bows more and more to the left and Islam. The left is not reproducing. Islam is. So Western Europe in my mind is done. It has become a radical Muslim country already. It’s just I’m seeing two generations from now. Eastern Europe hopefully sees the madness clearly and seems to be resisting. But Western Europe is done.

All the Christians slaughtered and Churches burned to the ground in the Middle East… and not a peep out of the media.
Honestly, this appears a bit biased.

I expect this to develop the way these things usually do. Revulsion over the action will be the excuse to ignore the reasons for it . . . even the good reasons. Even better; the mere suggestion that there might be any such good reasons will lead to hysterical accusations that anyone mentioning such a possibility must be a fan of mosque massacres, and so must be a monster, a racist, a something-phobe, maybe even a Trump voter. The intellectual baby will be thrown out with the criminal bathwater. The mysterious manifesto will be searched for clues that the perp is a racist, a Maoist, a whackjob, and when found he can be labeled and dismissed, and the important stuff ignored. What a relief! We can all forget about the underlying disaster approaching at breakneck speed. And since only racists and cranks would even dream of doing anything which might avert the catastrophe, we can relax and wallow in our virtue while the noose tightens.

Personally, I expect that the current war between the West and Islam (not all that current, really; it’s been grinding along for nearly 1400 years) will be resolved only with a huge pile of dead bodies. Whose? Well, ours or theirs. Nobody’s found any “nice” way to do it. As General von Clausewitz points out (Vom Kriege, 1832)—

Now, philanthropists may easily imagine there is a skilful method of disarming and overcoming an enemy without great bloodshed, and that this is the proper tendency of the Art of War. However plausible this may appear, still it is an error which must be extirpated; for in such dangerous things as War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst.

Or, as that fine American, General Tecumseh Sherman, said in his Memoirs (1889)—

[W]ar is destruction and nothing else.

Yes, it is. Perhaps best to stop pretending otherwise.

    Terence G. Gain in reply to tom_swift. | March 16, 2019 at 8:22 am

    There are plenty of reasons to oppose Islam, but there is no sane reason or justification for killing innocent civilians.

      tom_swift in reply to Terence G. Gain. | March 16, 2019 at 12:21 pm

      Like liberals insisting that abortion policy is really a question of “women’s health”, you’re trying to define the problem into oblivion. What is an “innocent civilian”? In WW2 someone finally realized that The Enemy which had to be defeated wasn’t a few million men in uniforms, it was an entire industrial base. The swarms of workers constructing U-boats, bombers, V-weapons, Panzers, rifles, shoes, field radios, mess kits, coding machines, all the material required to keep the military operational, were far more deadly enemies than the guys schlepping around in the field. And they were attacked and killed in large numbers; some 50,000 in the Hamburg firestorm alone. Difficult choices aren’t made easier by arbitrary insistence that an opponent is out-of-bounds just because he’s “innocent”.

    Europe has no confidence in Western Civilization. It will bow before Islam as it is doing already. There will be no war in Western Europe.

    Arminius in reply to tom_swift. | March 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    Be careful. this what I could what I wlould write.

elle: Unlike in the West, their faith teaches these acts are good.

Attacking civilians is not taught as being good by the vast majority of Muslim communities.

JusticeDelivered: I also think that Western civilization will have to expel or kill many if not all the Muslims in our midst.

Ah, “kill many if not all the Muslims in our midst”. Someone did just that recently. “Hello, brother”, said the first victim to the gunman.

MarkS: Show us a Muslim group which has condemned an Islamic terror attack

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Iran’s candlelit vigils for the victims

TheFineReport: Have you seen an orthodox Jew cutting off someone’s head or blowing themselves up on a bus or hacking children to death?

Baruch Goldstein killed 29, wounded over a hundred, some as young as twelve. He is not the only

    alaskabob in reply to Zachriel. | March 16, 2019 at 8:23 pm

    Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks…. nothing like leading off with CAIR , a supporter of terrorism

    Iran’s candlelit vigil…. Shiites condemning Sunnis… which is a natural. And Iran… a major exporter of terrorists.

    Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 2:29 am

    Dr Goldstein prevented a pogrom. Why do you think the Arabs had a store of hatchets in the mosque? Unlike this attack, there is not a shred of evidence that he caught them at prayer, rather than in the middle of planning the pogrom they had openly announced they were going to carry out, and that the army had warned him to prepare for.

    For that matter there’s no evidence what happened in there. It’s entirely plausible that he went in there, not to kill anyone but to spy on the meeting and report their plans, and only started shooting when he was discovered. If he’d originally planned to commit a massacre he’d have done better to bring a few grenades, or at least a spare weapon.

      krb in reply to Milhouse. | March 17, 2019 at 2:46 am

      Hi, Milhouse. I love your posts. Shavuoh tov, Choidesh tov, and Chag Sameyach. If you’re ever in Los Angeles PM me. Would love to daven with you!

    krb in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 2:45 am

    It’s interesting that Baruch Goldstein is literally the only example you will be able to find, as as Milhouse says there are still questions about what happened.

    Next there are a billion Muslims. Taking over the world is a real part of Islam. The world is divided into “The World under Islam” and “The World at War,” meaning they war against any part of the world not already subjugated to Islam. Which brings us to the question – what % of Muslims believe in this central doctrine of Islam? What % will bring terrorism to us and twist our laws to bend to Islam? 10%? That’s 100 million people. 1%? That’s ten million people! You say the vast majority of Muslims reject murdering innocent people but you have no data for that. It’s a talking point. Considering how few Muslims and Muslim organizations decry when their brethren murder innocent people, I think there is a great concern on the part of those of us who want freedom and not slavery that is justifiable.

    alaskabob: nothing like leading off with CAIR , a supporter of terrorism

    CAIR is a U.S. organization, and is not on the U.S. list of terrorist organizations. Regardless, we answered MarkS’s question.

    Milhouse: Dr Goldstein prevented a pogrom.

    There were hundreds of people at Fajr.

    Milhouse: For that matter there’s no evidence what happened in there.

    Of course there’s evidence what happened in there. There were hundreds of witnesses and over a hundred casualties, including people who were trampled in the stampeded to escape. Goldstein committed a massacre.

    krb: Considering how few Muslims and Muslim organizations decry when their brethren murder innocent people

    That’s false, as already noted.

    krb: What % will bring terrorism to us

    Are you talking about white supremacist Australians? What percentage of people on this thread support “expelling or killing many if not all the Muslims in our midst”?

      Arminius in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm

      I stand with men who fought at Tarawa. Because they didn
      t have a book.

      Arminius in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 1:01 pm

      Yes, CAIR is an American organization. So is PETA. I despise both Do you have a problem with that?

      krb in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 3:18 pm

      Note – I didn’t say no muslim ever spoke out against terrorism. But when horrors happen perpetrated by atheists or Christians, everyone in the world decries it – Christians, Jews, Buddhists, everyone. Members of their own groups decry it. Not so with Muslim terrorism. No one would say no muslim ever opposed terrorism. It’s just that the overwhelming majority seems to be disinterested in head chopping and bombing innocent people. It’s like the truth that all Muslims are not terrorists but for the most part, terrorists are generally Muslim.

        krb: But when horrors happen perpetrated by atheists or Christians, everyone in the world decries it – Christians, Jews, Buddhists, everyone. Members of their own groups decry it. Not so with Muslim terrorism.

        That’s false, as already noted.

          krb in reply to Zachriel. | March 17, 2019 at 4:01 pm

          That’s true not false. Just because you say it’s false doesn’t make it so. When Muslims strap explosives onto their children and murder THEIR OWN CHILDREN just so they can hurt Jews, that is perverted and evil. And then they go on to celebrate it. They name streets after them. They throw holidays and give sweets. It is a horrific evil culture that does so. Where are all the op-eds in Al Jazeera condemning that? Daily when they murder innocents, when they cut the heads of reporters, when they butcher whole families, where is the family of Saudi Arabia? Yemen? Syria? Surely you are not so ignorant and not so stupid to miss the silence. Unfortunately that leaves you are an apologist for evil which makes you evil. But I have a hard time finding another option.

          krb: Where are all the op-eds in Al Jazeera condemning that?

          On aljazeera.com. Just because you won’t listen doesn’t mean Muslims don’t condemn terrorism. The fact is that Muslims are much more likely to be victims of terrorists attacks than other people. Seventeen civilians were killed earlier this month in Jalalabad. Of course these attacks are condemned by Muslims, as have attacks against the West.

        Arminius in reply to krb. | March 19, 2019 at 3:43 pm

        Yeah. There’s a reason why Muslims are most likely to be victims of terrorism.

        That reason is? Other Muslims.

        Home » Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) » Hadith – Fighting for the Cause of Allah:

        Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I HAVE BEEN MADE VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

        Quran 3:151. “We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they joined others in worship with Allah, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire and how evil is the abode of the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).”

        8:12. “(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels… ‘I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them’.”

I would prefer that you like it Zac, that I like it better.

Yeah, sometimes my thoughts outstrip my tongue or in the internet age my typing fingers. I meant to say I prefer disagreement to conformity.

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