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Elizabeth Warren DNA test does NOT prove she’s Native American, contrary to the hype

Elizabeth Warren DNA test does NOT prove she’s Native American, contrary to the hype

At most shows “strong evidence” of an ancestor dating back 6-10 generations, but is not conclusive, and more important, being Native American is not just about DNA markers.

Elizabeth Warren is not Native American. Her ancestry has been traced by Cherokee genealogists back to the early 1800s, as far back as there are records, and there are no Native American ancestors.

The one potential Native American ancestor was Warren’s great great great grandmother, Sarah O.C. Smith, but an initial 2012 report about that was debunked and The Boston Globe was forced to issue a retraction.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181015144709/https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/05/14/for-record/20uQnW6yCV3uOL2bRDfseK/story.html

Trump and others have been demanding Warren take a DNA test. I wrote previously that this was not dispositive, No, Elizabeth Warren cannot prove she’s Native American merely by taking a DNA test. There is more to being Native American than DNA, both legally and from a tribal point of view:

This demand for a DNA test has been made by one of Warren’s 2018 Senate race challengers as well as others. Joan Venocchi at The Boston Globe also made the argument, Taking a DNA test could solve at least one of Elizabeth Warren’s problems.

This claim that all Warren need do is show any Native American DNA, no matter how small, reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of Warren’s claim to be Native American for employment purposes. Under clear EEOC and Harvard standards, Native American ancestry would not be sufficient to claim Native American status for employment purposes, which is what Warren did.

I addressed this issue in 2012, At debate Elizabeth Warren needs to disclose if she made false federal filings:…

If Warren can show she truly is a descendant of the original peoples of North America via a DNA test, that’s the start, not the end. She will not have proven she was justified in claiming Native American status for employment (and career advancement) purposes. She still would have to prove the second part of the test, that she maintained cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition.

Regardless of DNA, Warren cannot show cultural identification. Until her recent speech, Warren never associated with Native Americans.

Demanding Warren take a DNA test is politically understandable. A negative result would completely eliminate her claim to be Native American.

But a positive DNA result would not retroactively justify Warren misusing Native American identification to try to advance her career.

I’ve also argued that the focus on a DNA test was a mistake, because Warren likely either had taken or would take a DNA test that would show some miniscule markers from original North American peoples, and she would then declare she was right.

And so it has come to pass. The Boston Globe, Warren’s go-to outlet, reports on a DNA test Warren took. It does not show she is Native American. It shows “strong evidence” of a single ancestor going back 6-10 generations. It’s a very thin analysis, and does not support the headlines being generated that Warren is Native American.

(added) Yet the Globe ran a headline in the print edition (unlike the online edition) suggesting the results proved Warren’s ancestry. Warren has tweeted that print edition headline:

https://twitter.com/elizabethforma/status/1051820933982359553

From The Globe online edition, Warren releases results of DNA test:

Senator Elizabeth Warren has released a DNA test that provides “strong evidence’’ she had a Native American in her family tree dating back 6 to 10 generations, an unprecedented move by one of the top possible contenders for the 2020 Democratic nomination for president….

Warren, whose claims to Native American blood have been mocked by President Trump and other Republicans, provided the test results to the Globe on Sunday in an effort to defuse questions about her ancestry that have persisted for years. She planned an elaborate rollout Monday of the results as she aimed for widespread attention.

The analysis of Warren’s DNA was done by Carlos D. Bustamante, a Stanford University professor and expert in the field who won a 2010 MacArthur fellowship, also known as a genius grant, for his work on tracking population migration via DNA analysis.

He concluded that “the vast majority” of Warren’s ancestry is European, but he added that “the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor.”

Bustamante calculated that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears in her family tree “in the range of 6-10 generations ago.” That timing fits Warren’s family lore, passed down during her Oklahoma upbringing, that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American.

That last sentence, about O.C. Sarah Smith, is particularly galling. The claim in 2012 that Smith was Native American came from someone else, not Warren. And it was retracted by The Boston Globe, yet it is repeated in this article.

The Globe acknowledges how weak the DNA findings are:

The inherent imprecision of the six-page DNA analysis could provide fodder for Warren’s critics. If her great-great-great-grandmother was Native American, that puts her at 1/32nd American Indian. But the report includes the possibility that she’s just 1/512th Native American if the ancestor is 10 generations back….

Warren provided a sample of her DNA to a private lab in Georgia in August, according to one of the senator’s aides. The data from that test was sent to Bustamante and his team for analysis. Warren received the report last week.

Warren didn’t use a commercial service, but Bustamante is on the scientific advisory board for Ancestry, which provides commercial DNA tests. He’s also consulted on a project for 23andMe, another major DNA testing company.

Warren said she was committed to releasing the report regardless of the results. However, Warren’s aides would not say whether she or any of her three siblings had previously done a commercial DNA test that would have provided them with some assurance about Bustamante’s analysis.

There were five parts of Warren’s DNA that signaled she had a Native American ancestor, according to the report. The largest piece of Native American DNA was found on her 10th chromosome, according to the report. Each human has 23 pairs of chromosomes.

“It really stood out,” said Bustamante in an interview. “We found five segments, and that long segment was pretty significant. It tells us about one ancestor, and we can’t rule out more ancestors.”

He added: “We are confident it is not an error.”

Detecting DNA for Native Americans is particularly tricky because there is an absence of Native American DNA available for comparison. This is in part because Native American leaders have asked tribal members not to participate in genetic databases.

“The tribes have felt they have been exploited,” explained Lawrence Brody, a senior investigator with the Medical Genomics and Metabolic Genetics Branch at the National Institutes of Health. “The amount of genetic data that is available from Native Americans is sparse.”

To make up for the dearth of Native American DNA, Bustamante used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia to stand in for Native American. That’s because scientists believe that the groups Americans refer to as Native American came to this land via the Bering Straight about 12,000 years ago and settled in what’s now America but also migrated further south. His report explained that the use of reference populations whose genetic material has been fully sequenced was designed “for maximal accuracy.”

Bustamante said he can tease out the markers that these South Americans would have in common with Native Americans on the North American continent.

Bustamante also compared Warren’s DNA to white populations in Utah and Great Britain to determine if the amounts of Native American markers in Warren’s sample were significant or just background noise.

Warren has 12 times more Native American blood than a white person from Great Britain and 10 times more than a white person from Utah, the report found.

(added) After the story was published and widely shared on social media, The Globe issued a correction to its math:

Correction: Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 10th generation relative. It should be 1/1,024.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181015141642/https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html

(added) The Globe then issued a second correction:

Correction: Due to a math error, a story about Elizabeth Warren misstated the ancestry percentage of a potential 6th to 10th generation relative. The generational range based on the ancestor that the report identified suggests she’s between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American.

https://twitter.com/amber_athey/status/1051913331836096512

(added) This means that the DNA test shows what Warren may be LESS NATIVE AMERICAN than the average American of European ancestry:

On average, the scientists found, people who identified as African-American had genes that were only 73.2 percent African. European genes accounted for 24 percent of their DNA, while .8 percent came from Native Americans.

Latinos, on the other hand, had genes that were on average 65.1 percent European, 18 percent Native American, and 6.2 percent African. The researchers found that European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American.

https://twitter.com/michael_ahrens/status/1051843481013014528

Here is the actual report results.

https://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Elizabeth-Warren-DNA-Report-Boston-Globe.pdf

(added) It does not appear that Warren is making the original data available, only the interpretation of that data by the person she selected to review it. This is important, given the non-definitive conclusions even of Warren’s expert. It is possible that another expert reviewing the data could come to a different conclusion. And as the Globe notes, “Warren’s aides would not say whether she or any of her three siblings had previously done a commercial DNA test that would have provided them with some assurance about Bustamante’s analysis.”

Despite the weakness and speculative nature of the findings, media headlines are achieving Warren’s intended purpose of acting as if this is conclusive.

Where does this DNA test result leave us:

1. Warren still cannot point to any specific ancestor who was Native American.
2. Warren never lived as a Native American or associated with Native Americans.
3. Warren never claimed to be Native American until her late 30s.
4. Warren only used alleged Native American status for employment purposes, and stopped claiming that status when she got tenure at Harvard Law School.
5. There remains zero evidence Warren was a descendent of the Cherokee or Delaware tribes.
6. The DNA test does not prove Warren is Native American, at most there is “strong evidence” of a single ancestor dating back 6-10 generations, based on analysis that compares Warren’s DNA to numerous groups, including non-Native American groups.
7. The media headlines overstate the findings.
8. Warren almost certainly is running for president, and rolled out these findings in a highly controlled and slick production for that purpose.

NOTE [FS, 8/26/2019]: The Warren campaign scrubbed this video, but you can view it here:

[This post has been updated numerous times.]

UPDATE:

The Cherokee Nation has issued a statement rejecting Warren’s attempt to use DNA evidence to prove she’s Native American:

“A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America,” Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr. said. “Sovereign tribal national set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for trial affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”

https://twitter.com/JustinWingerter/status/1051943041576169476

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Comments

Fauxcahontas trying to become fauxpotus…

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to jmt9455. | October 15, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    More like Lie-aLie-alotta…..

    Ace of Spades
    Yes, less Indian DNA than non-Indian white people, such as herself.

    As The Federalist’s Sean Davis points out, according to The New York Times, the average white person in America has nearly double the amount of American Indian DNA (0.18%) as Elizabeth Warren (0.098%), who claims to be Cherokee. Then there is this:

      notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital. | October 15, 2018 at 10:09 pm

      Sean Davis

      @seanmdav
      The credulous reporter who wrote the Warren DNA piece didn’t do the math correctly (and this is before getting into why the particular test, which didn’t even use American Indian DNA to compare, was garbage). Six generations removed is 1/64. Ten removed is 1/1024 (0.098%).
      8:59 AM – Oct 15, 2018

Even it did prove that she is 1/32 or 1/64 Native American, the most important point is that it is just an irrelevant technicality as to who she is. Nevertheless, Warren jumped a few spots in line when applying for college by citing that small technicality. As the tribes have explained, she has no relationship with any surviving tribe. What is the point of giving someone with an advantage based on an irrelevant detail? How does this advance Native American interests or correct prior discrimination? It’s like being 99% white and getting a break because that 1% is black (or take your pick) from hundreds of years ago. It’s cheating.

    C. Lashown in reply to Pasadena Phil. | October 15, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Hmmm… I wonder how much African and Asian blood flows through those veins of hers?

    Perhaps this was only a gimmick from Warren, her way of celebrating the 10th Anniversary of ‘Legal Insurrection’.

    Nevertheless, Warren jumped a few spots in line when applying for college by citing that small technicality.

    No, she didn’t. She never claimed any kind of minority status until 1986, long after she finished college, and was already teaching at the University of Texas.

    (There’s no actual evidence she ever used that claim for employment either, though it stands to reason that she would have done so, since that’s the only conceivable reason why she would have had herself listed in the law schools directory of minority faculty.)

      Milwaukee in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2018 at 3:13 pm

      “(There’s no actual evidence she ever used that claim for employment either, though it stands to reason that she would have done so, since that’s the only conceivable reason why she would have had herself listed in the law schools directory of minority faculty.)”

      Milhouse: bless your little heart.

      We have no evidence doesn’t mean there is no actual evidence. Harvard hasn’t been very open about sharing the workings of how she came to be tenured. She was listed as a Native American for a period of time before gaining tenure, and that disappeared after she became tenured. Those who have the evidence aren’t sharing it.

        Milhouse in reply to Milwaukee. | October 15, 2018 at 4:09 pm

        Um, no. She was hired by Harvard in the first place with tenure (remember they hired her away from Penn, where she held an endowed chair). So the only question is whether her false claim to minority status played a role in the decision to hire her. The people involved in that decision insist they were unaware of her claim, so it couldn’t have been a factor in their thinking. That seems unlikely, but there’s no way to disprove it.

        There’s also the question of whether her claim played a role in Penn hiring her in 1987, or giving her a chair in 1990. I’m not aware of anyone affirming or denying it.

        However, none of this is relevant to Pasadena Phil’s claim that she used her supposed minority status when applying for college. That is definitely not true, since she hadn’t yet invented it.

    Paul In Sweden in reply to Pasadena Phil. | October 15, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    The Democrats always went by the One Drop rule for Blacks and if Warren as a champion of the Democrat Party says One Drop rule for Indians, I guess it is so…

    Democratic segregation in the South was so thoroughgoing that it was premised on the “one drop rule” which basically meant that any black heritage whatsoever classified someone as black. Some historians trace the one-drop rule back to slavery but this is not correct. During slavery, a different rule was in place: slave status passed through the mother.28 This meant that if a Democratic slave-master had sex with a female slave and produced a child, that child would be a slave because its mother was a slave. Quite a convenient rule, if you think about it, from the point of view of the Democratic planters.

    D’Souza, Dinesh. The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left (p. 137). Regnery Publishing. Kindle Edition.

I have a number of friends who have taken these DNA tests. A few siblings submitted to the same company and the results for every single sibling was different. Very different. Now, of course it could mean that Mom was running or rather sleeping around, but because of the mixed and markedly different results they had, they all submitted tests to different companies than the first one. All their results came back different from the first test, and two of them had similar results, but not close enough for brothers, more like distant cousins.

I know these tests can identify markers, but how the tests are read can vary quite a bit dependent on who reads the results. Using Mexico and other areas in the south also do not shout out that the results are correct.

She is not an Native American in any sense of the word. She has appropriated their culture for her own advancement. I don’t trust her. I wouldn’t be surprised if she shopped around till she found a result she could claim. I also wonder if this professor is a Warren supporter, which given the leftist penchant for lies and fabrications of the truth, would call these results further into question.

    fishstick in reply to oldgoat36. | October 15, 2018 at 11:04 am

    DNA tests are much different than blood works to show ancestry

    in this day and age – DNA tests are near 100% accurate although you need samples from others in your lineage to do so

    like a DNA test cannot prove you are a specific man’s son without a sample from said parent to compare it to

    so siblings that had real DNA tests done and came back negative to each other means they are not true siblings

    because the science behind DNA never lies

    ———

    however, blood tests that show ancestry is an entirely different spectrum as it checks for specific markers inherent to sub-classes of the homo sapien

    the four main sub-classes are caucasians, africans, east asians, and native americans

    most people who take this test will have 70%+ within one of the big 4 and usually a 30% split within 2 of the other 3

    so someone like myself (if I had a DNA ancestry done) would be 70%ish caucasian, some 20% east asian, less than 10% native american

    my mom is probably 85%-95% caucasian (german lineage) with my paternal grandmother is half philippine and my paternal grandfather being caucasian (french lineage) with some native (choctaw) lineage

    the funny thing is if you were to look at me, one would not think my DNA would show I am more caucasian than anything else

    but a DNA test would show that my dark hair, dark eyed, and tanned self would be 100% in showing that I was the son of a blonde haired, fair skinned woman

    and at the same time – our ancestry tests would hardly show us as mother and son because our genetic markers would be off in comparison

      “… however, blood tests that show ancestry is an entirely different spectrum as it checks for specific markers inherent to sub-classes of the homo sapien… ”

      She may have had a blood transfusion to rig the test too. If I were Trump, I would renew the challenge on the basis of independent testing of her DNA.

    I would be willing to bet cold, hard cash that the results of this test were written in stone before she took it, and that Bustamante was read into the project before it started, agreed to remain silent if he could not find at least one thread to pull in this gnarled-up sweater, and that he tilted this table practically on end to get the results they wanted.

    Questions that would confirm my presumptions are:
    -Did the actual test results get published, or only the executive summary?
    -Was there any kind of ‘Blind’ in this test to assure that the testing was not biased by Bustamante?
    -Were other tests submitted to other researchers?
    -Is there any authentication that the results of this test are really Warren’s? (admittedly, this is the weakest one, because in this era of DNA left behind everywhere, only an idiot would fake a test with somebody else’s sample. It’s far too easy to counter.)

so at best – according to this DNA test – Elizabeth Warren’s closest ancestor to native american descent is from 6 generations ago and she is claiming this as proof?

THAT is too LOL

she must realize that a generation is like 20-25 years, so that translated into 120-150 years ago

one would have to wonder if Fauxcahontas’s grandmother ever met this “ancestor”

and that is taking the bare minimum here

Elizabeth Warren has about as much proof being “native american” as Snoop Dogg has being “european”

    Petrushka in reply to fishstick. | October 15, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Most middle class people can trace their ancestry back 150 years via public records and by the work of the Mormons (Now ancestry.com).

      gospace in reply to Petrushka. | October 15, 2018 at 2:03 pm

      And some rules to trace ancestry accurately using ancestry.com. Only use other people’s trees as starting points. Without other documentation- census, birth records, death records, marriage records- other people’s tree’s are just guesswork. I can trace to my 5g-grandfather on one line. There are multiple trees tracing him past there. All different, and my tracing stops there as there’s no proof.

      And there is another thing. All tracings assume the wife was loyal. The mother is always provable. The father is always assumed… before DNA could provide proof.

        ShadowsPapa in reply to gospace. | October 15, 2018 at 10:24 pm

        I have boxes and boxes of family bibles, birth records, death records, census records, military records, marriage certificates and more – and can trace my own ancestry on Dad’s side back into the middle 1600s.
        On my mother side, I can trace her mother’s family waaaay back as well, her father – a bit more tricky, but on Mom’s father’s father’s side, I can go back to Switzerland 1700s when the king suggested my ancestor leave for his health……..
        On my mother’s father’s mother’s side -that’s tricky. Lore has it she was half Cherokee and two other people researching the same woman say the same, but none of us can trace her back beyond her father. It’s a dead end on my great grandmother’s mother’s side. Which I guess could support the stories.
        Anyway, I am one of those people who have all of the records, including Ohio history books which mention my ancestors directly by name.
        Was there any messing around – no indications, they were very religious people and helped start the Methodist church in Ohio.

a statistician/biologist interpreted some dna test and hedged his bets.
you don’t need a statistician to read dna results unless you are trying to shoehorn your way into a statistic.

Liawatha has some Mexican, Peruvian, or Colombian ancestry. That is what her DNA analysis revealed.

    C. Lashown in reply to JustSayN2O. | October 15, 2018 at 10:00 am

    Are you saying she’s part illegal alien? NOW that is believable, all of it fits – except for her behavior. Every Mexican and illegal I’ve worked with ‘knew’ how to work, whereas this old skank seems to think the world owes her for merely breathing.

In passing, I noted something about her having 12 times more Native American blood than a white person from Great Britain.

…Something doesn’t sound right about that? I think they’re just messing around with definitions.

“in the range of 6-10 generations ago”

LOL….So she ‘might be’ somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1024th native American. And we are supposed to take this seriously.

    MajorWood in reply to JHogan. | October 15, 2018 at 10:51 am

    I am just a bit curious about the chain of custody in these samples. Still waiting for one to come back where she is 1/16th Cherokee, and also a male. Once you start to fudge data, bad things can happen, and almost always do.

I may very well be a direct descendant of Genghis Khan:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/

Do I get a scholarship to Harvard?

If the DNA test used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia than let her claim to be an Aztec, Mayan, or whatever the natives or Peru and Colombia called themselves.

Amazing that the Democrats are once again arguing the one-drop rule.

Warren has no business claiming to be Native American.

If she can claim it simply based on a single ancestor than no one can complain when Rachel Dolezal says she’s black if Rachel can find one single black ancestor anywhere in her DNA. (hint: everyone can since humanity came from Africa.)

casualobserver | October 15, 2018 at 10:05 am

All they wanted/needed to do was check a box. It’s now checked. And the media now has something to help attack anyone questioning the Dems’ interpretation of the “results”. Expect all of the usual racism/misogyny tropes.

But she was born here so she’s a native American. (According to leftist.)

The Warren problem is whether or not she checked a box on a form which fraudulently put her on the ultra-fast track to a position at Harvard which she didn’t otherwise merit. There are some good reasons to suspect that she did just that, and that Harvard took misguided action afterwards, plucking her from legal academic obscurity and elevating her to the Olympian heights of Cambridge, MA. And there are also good reasons to believe that she afterwards covered her trail as best she could so that the fraud would not be revealed.

Unfortunately, only examination of Harvard’s confidential records can really resolve this, and I don’t see any legal way to force Harvard to release that material.

DNA doesn’t really come into it. Genuine ancestry or not, there is just no way that Harvard, or anyone else, can claim that Warren is a po’ lil’ oppressed waif otherwise condemned to a marginal Neolithic-level existence on some dismal reservation, and can only be salvaged by a helping Affirmative Action hand. She looked and lived like a blue-eyed blonde white person, and has no legitimate business occupying one of Harvard’s “quota” faculty positions (you know, one of those positions Harvard will deny having).

    Milhouse in reply to tom_swift. | October 15, 2018 at 11:04 am

    Unfortunately, only examination of Harvard’s confidential records can really resolve this, and I don’t see any legal way to force Harvard to release that material.

    Exactly. Harvard denies it, and there’s no way to prove they’re lying.

      redc1c4 in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2018 at 11:51 am

      i’m sure the document/s in question were “misplaced” years ago… 😉

      Milwaukee in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2018 at 3:34 pm

      But:
      “(There’s no actual evidence she ever used that claim for employment either, though it stands to reason that she would have done so, since that’s the only conceivable reason why she would have had herself listed in the law schools directory of minority faculty.)”

      Fordham’s Law Review published an article identifying her as the FIRST woman of color hired by Harvard Law.

      The source for the law review article was a….. drum roll…. “telephone interview with Michael Chmura, News Director, Harvard Law (Aug. 6, 1996).”

      There is only ONE way, Harvard would think to call her a “woman of color” if they had ever met her. And that is that she told them she was Cherokee.

      It’s a joke.

        Milhouse in reply to derf. | October 15, 2018 at 6:07 pm

        There is only ONE way, Harvard would think to call her a “woman of color” if they had ever met her. And that is that she told them she was Cherokee.

        Not true. They could have got it (and probably did get it) from the directory of minority law school faculty, where she falsely listed herself from about 1986 to 1995.

So, after all the gyrations, verbal gymnastics and thinly-sliced shadings as to what she claims to be, we’re still left (pun intended!) with a more specific question….

How?

If Warren’s parents were “shamed” out of having a local wedding because her mother’s family was known to have Native American heritage, that means someone in town must have done some DNA testing way back before DNA testing was an actual process that could be done.

Also: note that in recent articles in the Globe, she has changed the reason that she gave for being public and proud of her heritage. In years past she said: “It was to meet people who were like me.” (we know that she made no effort to meet anyone with such a heritage). Now she is saying that it is because she saw her parent’s getting older and wanted to highlight her family history.

    Milhouse in reply to PDQ2. | October 15, 2018 at 11:10 am

    No, if her parents had been shamed out of having a local wedding, it would mean that her family was known locally as part-Indians, without any need for DNA tests. That would be enough to justify her claims, tribal registry or no tribal registry. Too bad the story isn’t true.

    Her claim to have listed herself as a minority in order to meet people like her never made any sense, because the directory didn’t say what kind of minority anyone was. All she would have known about anyone else listed, or they about her, is that they were some sort of minority, with no reason to believe they had anything in common. No, the only reason anyone ever listed themselves in that directory was to help with employment prospects, so her claims never to have taken advantage of her alleged ancestry, while they can’t be disproven, are not plausible.

    Your comments remind me of a fable.

    “A man is pleasure riding his balloon one day when a sudden strong wind blows him far off course. Eventually, he lands safely in a field but has no idea where he is. Soon, a stranger approaches and he asks the man: “Could you please help me? Where am I?” The stranger replies, “You are in a balloon in the middle of a field.” After pausing a few moments, the man surmises: “You’re an accountant aren’t you?” The stranger says “Yes! How did you know?” Man: “Because your answer was perfectly accurate but utterly useless.”

Some primatologists were looking at Chimps and noted that a small number of females mated with males in the tribe other than the alpha. DNA testing showed showed that about 10% of the young chimps were not from the alpha male. This prompted a couple of social scientists to look at humans, where a large confidential survey in Scandinavia revealed a similar 10% discrepancy with women admitting the fatherhood of a child was not the “indicated” parent. I was discussing this with coworkers at lunch one day, and one of them used to work in a bone marrow unit, where they also saw about a 10% discrepancy when doing cross-matching. Lots of kids coming in to donate for dad, who had zero genetic ties to “dad.” Their policy was to say “you are not a good match” and not “get out of here you bastard.”

So if a test doesn’t reveal a sibling relationship, it may not be a bad test. But if two different labs come up with wildly different results or conclusions from the same sample, then one or both labs is wonky some way. The key to science is repeatability. Otherwise it is comparing noise to noise.

It does unnerve people though when you say that you have a son and a possible daughter. Still not ready to pull the pin on that particular hand grenade, but I did tell the Princess early-on that there was a slight probability of a girl showing up on the doorstep in 2001 asking for “dad.” This is what happens when your parents don’t let you watch Dallas.

“our population reference set consisted of 148 individuals. ….”

No need to read any further. This base set is far to small to contain anything definitive in the <1% range, which is where Fauxcahauntas' claim to American Indian ancestry lies.

And the Democrats claim to be "the party of Science." Barf.

It isn’t even the DNA that is the issue, it’s her LIE that is the issue. More broadly, it is that colleges would hire her based on ethnicity/race rather than merit.

Donald J. Trump: “We will take that little kit — but we have to do it gently. Because we’re in the #MeToo generation, we have to do it gently,” the president trolled. “And we will very genlty take that kit, and slowly toss it, hoping it doesn’t injure her arm, and we will say: I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.”

Maybe she will designate the gift to a charity that supports #MeToo — in honor of Brett Kavanaugh, of course.

    The Cherokee nation has requirements for how much Cherokee DNA one must have before they’re eligible for tribe membership, right? What are the numbers? Assuming this test is legit, does Warren qualify?

      Paul: The Cherokee nation has requirements for how much Cherokee DNA one must have before they’re eligible for tribe membership, right?

      The Cherokee Nation requires a person provide documentary evidence that the person has an ancestor on the Dawes Rolls. They do not accept DNA evidence, and there is no minimum blood quantum.

      Paul: Assuming this test is legit, does Warren qualify?

      She can’t trace her exact ancestry, so she wouldn’t be eligible for membership. However, her claim was that her family lore indicated she had a native ancestor, which is apparently true.

        With just a vapor of possibly Cherokee blood, she changed her ethnicity on public records to Native American. How precise do you have to be to qualify for being a fake? How close do you have to get to zero to finally be deemed a liar? Fauxcahontas just proved herself to be a liar about just about every claim in this story. Trump has nothing to fear about that $1 million challenge.

        It’s one thing to claim that your ancestry INCLUDES a trace amount of an ethnicity. It’s another to change your official ethnicity on that basis. Am I a Mongolian if, like with 1 out of 200 current males on the planet, my ancestry traces directly back to Genghis Khan? And that’s now just to Mongolian ancestry but to a specific person who lived over 1000 years ago.

          Pasadena Phil: With just a vapor of possibly Cherokee blood, she changed her ethnicity on public records to Native American.

          She claimed her great-great-great-grandmother was native (and she may have been half or quarter native, but considered native at the time). That is consistent with the DNA test.

          Pasadena Phil: Am I a Mongolian if, like with 1 out of 200 current males on the planet, my ancestry traces directly back to Genghis Khan?

          About 8% of central Asian men can trace their patrilineage to Genghis Khan (or his close fraternal relatives). If you share this y-chromosome, you could claim you are an ancestor of Genghis Khan (or his close patrilineal relatives), meaning you do, indeed, have Mongolian ancestry.

          According to the post:

          “That last sentence, about O.C. Sarah Smith, is particularly galling. The claim in 2012 that Smith was Native American came from someone else, not Warren. And it was retracted by The Boston Globe.”

          So did she claim her great-great-great grandmosther was native, as you say?

          oldschooltwentysix: So did she claim her great-great-great grandmother was native

          You are correct. Warren’s actual claim was just that she had native ancestry through her grandfather somewhere in the past. In any case, DNA is strong evidence of her native ancestry.

          Milhouse in reply to Pasadena Phil. | October 15, 2018 at 4:21 pm

          she changed her ethnicity on public records to Native American… to change your official ethnicity

          She did no such thing.

      Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 4:33 pm

      Trump suddenly denies promising to donate $1 million if Warren proved ‘Indian’ ancestry

      Yep. And guess what, he’s telling the truth and RawStory is lying. What’s amazing is that they provide the recording from which anyone can see that they’re lying. They didn’t bother to misleadingly edit it. They just rely on people not bothering to listen. That’s brazen.

        “But let’s say I’m debating Pocahontas, I’ll do this,” Trump said during a campaign rally in Great Falls, Mont., referring to Warren by the racially charged nickname he gave her during the 2016 presidential campaign.

        “I promise you I’ll do this, you know those little kits they sell on television for $2? Learn your heritage,” Trump said.

        “I’m going to get one of those little kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage — because her mother said she has high cheekbones, that’s her only evidence,” Trump continued.

        “We will take that little kit, we have to do it gently because we’re in the ‘Me Too’ generation, we have to be very gentle,” Trump said mocking the movement that seeks to expose sexual misconduct in media, entertainment and politics.

        “We will very gently take that kit and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn’t hit her and injure her arm, even though it only weighs probably 2 oz,” he said.

        “And we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian,” Trump said. “And we’ll see what she does. I have a feeling she will say no but we will hold it for the debates.”

        Milhouse: he’s telling the truth

        You have to parse that pretty fine to ignore his obligation. Sure, he said is as part of an imaginary scenario during an imagined debate. Sure, he said she had to show she’s “an Indian”, rather than have native ancestry. But it’s clear what he was intending. He wants the benefit of the challenge without the obligation inherent in that challenge.

        Everyone knows he’s a sport who always does what he says he’s going to do. And he’s very bigly rich. It’s for charity, in any case.

    healthguyfsu in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 10:59 am

    That still is not proven and not even close. For a hive mind that claims superior scientific intellect, you are pretty ignorant of how DNA testing works.

      healthguyfsu: That still is not proven and not even close.

      The type of genetic testing that was done is statistical in nature. In this case, it is strong evidence of her having a native ancestor. It’s certainly better evidence than shouting “Is not!” over and over again.

      healthguyfsu: For a hive mind that claims superior scientific intellect

      We have made no such claim.

    counsel in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 11:11 am

    I don’t know about Trump but before I’d part with 1 Million dollars I would want actual DNA samples that could be analyzed and a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.

      counsel: I don’t know about Trump but before I’d part with 1 Million dollars I would want actual DNA samples that could be analyzed and a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.

      Genetic testing indicates her blood quantum is between 1/32 and 1/1024, consistent with her family lore.

        counsel in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 12:01 pm

        Wow 1/1024!!! That meets no known evidentiary standard. I’d be embarrassed to try to argue that. It’s an embarrassment for her.

        I think she owes Trump the 1 million.

          counsel: Wow 1/1024!!!

          The most likely value is 1/128. Again, this is consistent with her family lore, which is that her great-great-great-grandmother was native (and she may have been half or quarter native, but considered native at the time).

          In other words, Warren’s family lore was based on remembered fact.

          counsel in reply to counsel. | October 15, 2018 at 12:22 pm

          Oh my 1/128!!! That changes everything!!! Why its .78%!!! With samples from Peru, Columbia and Mexico.

          So this proves — well it proves nothing.

          Have fun with FauxcaMexico.

          counsel: That changes everything!!!

          No. But it confirms her claim concerning her native ancestry.

        Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 4:31 pm

        Genetic testing indicates her blood quantum is between 1/32 and 1/1024, consistent with her family lore.

        So she says. As “counsel” says, before I’d part with 1 Million dollars I would want actual DNA samples that could be analyzed.

        No certificate, because that’s based on the completely artificial criteria of the Dawes Roll, and I agree that’s irrelevant. But I would not pay up on the basis of this report, with no access to the underlying data.

        In any case the entire basis for this discussion turns out to be moot, because I just listened to the tape, and what do you know, he never made any such pledge.

    dystopia in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 11:14 am

    The Eastern Band of Cherokee Nations requires at least 1/16th for membership. The United States Bureau of Indian Affairs’ Higher Education Grant for college expenses requires a 1/4 degree.

    Where does that leave your woman?

      dystopia: Where does that leave your woman?

      The Cherokee Nation doesn’t have a minimum blood quantum. Warren’s family lore is that she is part Cherokee and part Delaware, but she never claimed to be a tribal member.

        dystopia in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 11:50 am

        I think it leaves your paladin (squaw) up the creek without a paddle. She cannot veritably trace her ancestry. She does not qualify for membership in any Indian nation.

        And that margin of error given by her own expert 6 to 10 generations. Wow.

        She should have left well enough alone. As for you, I have some re fried beans to help with your digestion.

          dystopia: She cannot veritably trace her ancestry. She does not qualify for membership in any Indian nation.

          She never claim tribal membership, but native ancestry.

          dystopia: And that margin of error given by her own expert 6 to 10 generations.

          That’s consistent with what she had claimed concerning her native ancestry, that her great-great-great-grandmother was native (and she may have been half or quarter native, but considered native at the time).

          dystopia in reply to dystopia. | October 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm

          In other words her claims were mere dicta put forth with the intention of misleading. Thank you for confirming that. She probably has as much African American Blood as Indian. What a joke.

          Please keep answering me. You just make it so much worse for her

          dystopia: In other words her claims were mere dicta put forth with the intention of misleading.

          Actually, she claimed native ancestry through her great-great-great-grandmother, which is consistent with the DNA evidence. That settles that.

          Gremlin1974 in reply to dystopia. | October 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm

          @Zach

          “which is consistent with the DNA evidence. That settles that.”

          Only if it is actually the 6th maybe 7th generation (7th is actually stretching it), which isn’t anything but a guess, but not the 8th – 10th generation, so the odds are she and you are still full of shit.

          Gremlin1974: Only if it is actually the 6th maybe 7th generation (7th is actually stretching it), which isn’t anything but a guess, but not the 8th – 10th generation

          How does that impact her claim of native ancestry? Family lore was that she had native ancestry, and that is supported by the DNA evidence.

        Gremlin1974 in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm

        “The Cherokee Nation doesn’t have a minimum blood quantum.”

        Oh look, @Zachriel is full of shit as usual.

        “For Warren to apply for Cherokee Nation citizenship, she would have to provide documentation proving she has a direct ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls of the tribe. To this day, Warren has not provided any documentation that would make her eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship.

        In order for Warren to be recognized as Cherokee by the Eastern Band of the Cherokee, she would have to be at least 1/16 Cherokee — which she is not — and would have to provide documentation showing she is a direct descendant of someone listed on the tribe’s rolls.

        To join the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee, Warren would have to be 1/4 Keetoowah Cherokee — which she is not — and have a direct ancestor on the Dawes Rolls.”

          Gremlin1974: In order for Warren to be recognized as Cherokee by the Eastern Band of the Cherokee, she would have to be at least 1/16 Cherokee

          The Cherokee Nation is not the Eastern Band of the Cherokee. As noted above, the Cherokee Nation does not have a minimum blood quantum, nor do they accept DNA tests.

          As to Warren’s native ancestry, that’s been reasonably determined with the DNA test.

    userpen in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    Nice try Zach. Trump said if she proves she’s an “Indian.” So far she has offered no evidence to prove her ancestors came from India.

    Ulysses in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Zach, why are you aiding and abetting in Elizabeth Warren’s cultural appropriation?

    Milhouse in reply to Zachriel. | October 15, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    If she can substantiate this then Trump should pay up. But I wouldn’t pay simply on the basis of what’s just been published.

      Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | October 15, 2018 at 4:38 pm

      Amendment. This turns out to be more “fake news”. He never made any pledge, so there’s nothing to pay, even if this report is substantiated.

      But if the report is true then it justifies her claims, and it would be wrong to go on attacking her on its basis. Tribal rules for being recognized as a member are irrelevant, because she never claimed to qualify. Though her contributions to that cookbook would still be fair game. But that’s only if the report is verified. I’m not taking her word for it.

The real story is not the dubious DNA test result but the fact that the Boston Globe simply has zero journalistic integrity when reporting on anything related to Warren and, for that matter, most any Democrat.

The Globe ran cover for the Kennedy family for decades and picks that same strategy right up with Warren.

Bucky Barkingham | October 15, 2018 at 11:04 am

Another example of how Trump drives the agenda. Fauxcahontas would not have released this claimed DNA result were it not for Trump’s jibes about her.

DNA tests can basically tell you where your ancestors migrated from to and through. I did the more scientific test with National Geographic (The Genome Project) and guess what. While my DNA is 48% Finnish I am also 7% Northeast Asian. So I can claim minority status as of Asian ancestry, right? (PS: Most Finns also have 7% Northeast Asian ancestry).

DNA is what you make of it and Fauxcahantas wants to be thought of as Native America. So I will make the most of this and list myself on the next census as Asian American and be on the lookout for my next goodies handout from the government. Nevermind the blonde hair and blue eyes. I DO have Northeast Asian cheekbones.

Warren will now become a Cunning Runt, as Hillary was in 2016,

She will achieve the same result too.

have not had the advantage of any sort of dna study/training but am nevertheless struck by the similarities/traits/tells of the dem’s purported front runners: clinton, harris, fauxcohontas,62IQ waters:

older,unfulfilled,angry,anti-men,controlling,lying,self-consumed,ferocious lust for power

could they perhaps be related?

Hello.
This analysis compared her to 185 other people

There is no way any reputable analysis would compare DNA to this few people. The “n” is too small.

so, to be magnanimous, Trump should cut a check for $976.56, which is 1/1024th of $1,000,000…

just to rub her nose in it. 🙂

This is excellent news.

It will suck all the oxygen out of the room and elevate her as a candidate. It gives her a chance at the nomination. It guarantees she slugs it out with Kamala and Biden. Only Michelle can rise about this slugfest.

And she will lose in 2020 if she gets the nomination. I will take Trump vs Warren every time. Or any of these three after a bloodbath of a primary.

And no, I don’t think she is an Indian either. But this is bad news for Democrats they just don’t realize it yet.

Secretly find DNA expert. Secretly do DNA test. Secretly go about reaching “conclusions” of test. Loudly announce “1/1,024%” PAY UP MY MILLION DOLLARS SUKKA” before any critical analysis can be done. Yep, sounds like a democrat operation to me.

Genealogy and DNA – 2 different things.
Plus, DNA can’t get to the tribe level.
What if she’s not Cherokee ? Then the Cherokee genealogy is useless.

also note, that there in no U.S. native american DNA database.

from the Bustamante Warren report:

For Native American references, we used samples within the 1000 Genomes project of Native American ancestry; these samples come from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia. (It is not possible to use Native American reference sequences from inside the United States, since Native American groups within the US have not chosen to participate in recent population genetics studies.)

so she’s Peruvian ? or Mexican ? or Colombian

Half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-breed, that’s all she ever heard.
Half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-half-breed, how she learned to hate the word.

Do the Dems even realize that they have been outed even before they make their claim?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKxtXzAgGew&feature=youtu.be

Better have an FBI investigation. Squawsnatch tell many lies, blue eyed lies, seeking privileged opportunity.

Better that Squawsnatch would convince Howie Carr or maybe get a Kennedy endorsement.

buckeyeminuteman | October 15, 2018 at 12:32 pm

I am a 5th or 6th cousin twice removed from Col Harland D Sanders. I don’t go around demanding free chicken every chance I get. That’s because it’s so insignificant that nobody cares, nor should they. If out of the 1,024 ancestors mapped, only one was Indian, then still who cares? Seems only Naive Americans would vote for this “Native” American.

The researchers found that European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/science/23andme-genetic-ethnicity-study.html

So Elizabeth Warren is *possibly* 1/1024 (0.09%) Native American.

Scientists say the average European-American is 0.18% Native American.

That’d make Warren even less Native American than the average European-American.

Trump bet the farm on her failing a DNA test. Now he has to own it. He should act like a man and pay the donation, as he promised. Otherwise he’s nothing but a welching loser.

” ‘I’m going to get one of those little [DNA testing] kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage…,” Trump said. “And we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.'”

    Milhouse in reply to Todayslies. | October 15, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Except that he never promised anything. You’ve got the quote; why don’t you read it, instead of just cutting and pasting it? Nowhere in that quote does he make any sort of offer or pledge, for the simple reason that he was not addressing her, directly or indirectly.

    Did you even read the report?
    First, it compared her to 185 Utahns and Brits (hardly enough to make a conclusion)
    Second, they did not use Native Americans as the other comparison group, but rather Mexicans, Peruvians and Columbians as a stand in.
    Third, EVEN WITH this cherry picked group, at best was they could come up with the notion that POSSIBLY her great great great great great great or maybe her great great great great great great great great great great grandmother has a Native.

    This hardly vindicates her.Especially when you talk about her passing on the BS that her mother and father had to elope because her mom was supposedly cherokee. It is proven that not even her mother’s great grandmother was Cherokee.

thalesofmiletus | October 15, 2018 at 12:40 pm

Oh wow, a Loyal Democrat Donor personally did the study? GTFO

The question which is ignored by liberal news organs, in this discussion, is WHY would Elizabeth Warren, a blond-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian, WANT to identify herself as being Native American? I identify as Caucasian [when I have to provide any racial identity information] because I fit the phenotype of a Caucasian. And, this is true of most people. They officially identify themselves as the race that their phenotype most closely resembles. But, Warren bears none of the physical markings associated with Native Americans. And, her DNA testing does NOT show that there was a full, or even half-blooded native American anywhere in her recent lineage. From the amount of DNA present, in her sample, the analysts are projecting the likelihood of a full blooded relative at between six and ten generations [that places the full blooded “ancestor” somewhere between 180 and 300 years removed from Warren’s birth in 1949. Or, somewhere between Pre-Civil War and Pre-Revolutionary times.] Now, I would be willing to bet that any person, whose family has lived in this country for that length of time, will have a comparable level of native American DNA. Especially if their family lived in areas also inhabited by native Americans during that time. Yet, few, if any of them would attempt to identify as a Native American.

So, back to the original question. Why would Elizabeth Warren choose to identify herself as native American? That is the question that should be asked of a potential Presidential candidate.

Paul In Sweden | October 15, 2018 at 1:03 pm

Warren’s Genius DNA expert Carlos D. Bustamante didn’t have access to Native American DNA to test against…Warren should demand her money back.

A lack of American Indian DNA for comparison meant Stanford geneticist who analyzed Warren’s DNA had to rely on samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia ”
[…]
The lower end of that range corresponds to 0.097 per cent, which would make Warren less Indian than the average European-American.

–Trump downplays DNA test showing ‘Pocahontas’ Elizabeth Warren has American Indian blood | Daily Mail Online
–https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6277475/Elizabeth-Warrens-DNA-shows-DOES-distant-American-Indian-ancestor.html
-RETRIEVED-Mon Oct 15 2018 18:48:34 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time)

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Paul In Sweden. | October 15, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    It’s well known that Native American (North American) peoples don’t participate in the genomic testing, so very few sample of North American Native peoples is available.

    Not a DNA expert but I do understand the terms, it seems the guys analysis is pretty spot on, however, is it “proof”? Not by a long shot, in fact it really does her claim more harm than good.

I will get downvoted like crazy for this, but I suggest that conservatives just suck it up. Ya win some, ya lose some. By the way, the Stanford prof is an authority in his field and did the test anonymously, i.e. didn’t know whose blood it was.

As much as I’d like to think that Warren found someone with even higher cheekbones than hers, bit her on the neck, and spit the blood into a vial, I’d say that Liz won this round.

It’s okay to grimace — a discreet “Oh s***” would be appropriate — but no grumbling allowed. Just move on.

    Valerie in reply to RandomCrank. | October 15, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    Nope. Reading. It’s what adults do. Her DNA was not even compared to that of reliably native American Indians. Also, the outcome, at best, is within the range of experimental noise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6277475/Elizabeth-Warrens-DNA-shows-DOES-distant-American-Indian-ancestor.html

    Most American Indian tribes discourage their members from participating in commercial DNA databases out of fear that it would be used to exploit them.

    So the ‘Native American reference’ samples Bustamante relied on belonged to people who were from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia.

    Some American Indian populations that entered North America via a land bridge in modern-day Alaska settled in the Great Plains, while others migrated to what is now Central and South America.

      puhiawa in reply to Valerie. | October 15, 2018 at 2:08 pm

      Central American and South American genes are sufficiently different from the Cherokee (Eastern North America) that they are distinguishable. She has not demonstrated any Cherokee ancestry, and could just as likely have an ancestor from Anatolia,Russia, the Balkans etc. that has a quantum of Asiatic blood.

    Colonel Travis in reply to RandomCrank. | October 15, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    Funny. Anyone with a brain understands how the test results make Warren look like an idiot.

    Unlike you, I won’t lecture you to stop looking like a fool. By all means, keep it up.

      RandomCrank in reply to Colonel Travis. | October 15, 2018 at 1:37 pm

      Well, I’m the stupidest person I know, and proud of it, so I’m going to continue being stupid and accept the results.

        Colonel Travis in reply to RandomCrank. | October 15, 2018 at 1:55 pm

        Accepting the results isn’t what makes you look stupid. I also accept the results, as much as it is possible. The difference between me and you is that you have no clue what must follow from accepting the results.

    Why should you be down checked? Look, there are two parts to this information. One is the actual data produced by the test and the other is the analysis of the data produced by the test.

    It is relatively easy to accept that some DNA markers common to people who migrated to the New World prior to European immigration were found in Warren’s DNA. So, the results, while not independently confirmed, can be accepted as being accurate, under the parameters reported.

    The analysis of those results is much less clear. First, we do not have an accurate identification of the DNA strand. As there is insufficient DNA classifications on file, from North American native American tribes, to accurately match the suspected DNA to any of these people, assuming that this DNA matches any such tribal member is foolish. And, Elizabeth Warren did identify her “ancestor” as being of the Cherokee nation, which has not been confirmed by the records of that nation. Also, as no historical lineage has ever been established, for a Northern native American ancestor for Warren, the origin of the DNA believed to be comparable to New World DNA is totally unknown here. It could have come from any number of other sources having nothing to do with the Cherokee nation, or even North American Native Americans. Finally, the amount of DNA which was identified as being similar to that found in samples from New World peoples is at a level near, or consistent with, the amount found in most Caucasian people whose ancestors were living in the United States for a similar period of time. What this means, is that any credible analysis can not come to the conclusion that Elizabeth Warren is any more of a native American than the majority of Caucasian Americans, whose families have resided in this country for a similar period of time. If Elizabeth Warren can realistically be able to claim to be a native American, then so can the rest of us. When everyone is the same, no one is special. Thank you, Elizabeth, for reminding us of that.

    Milhouse in reply to RandomCrank. | October 15, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    By the way, the Stanford prof is an authority in his field and did the test anonymously, i.e. didn’t know whose blood it was.

    Maybe. IF it’s true then yes, we should give up this argument and move on. Trump never promised her any money, but should apologize for the “Pocohontas” jibes. Again, IF this is true. Verify first.

Warren is getting most mainstream media to repeat, over and over, her claim Trump’s pledge was 1m if her DNA test showed Native American ancestry. That’s not what Trump said, the video proof (which Fox is apparently repeating, for one) is, “if it shows you’re an Indian”.

It’s out there. His words are plain for anyone to see and hear. She insists on childishly pretending he pledged something else. Rush Limbaugh is going to have a field day with this, and thanks to Warren, the issue of the pledge, and “forgetting” his pledge and “denying” he made it, and without having seen Trump speak I am not sure exactly what he said, but here’s the point: he’s suckered them into talking about the issue. A lot.

It’s simply amazing.

    Edward in reply to JBourque. | October 15, 2018 at 2:27 pm

    Actually Limbaugh screwed up (yes, he does so with greater frequency these days, I suspect as with us all this happens as he ages) and said that Trump is denying he said it, but he did say it.

      Well Trump said one thing, but what he said is not what Warren and CNN and Huffington Post say he said. Color me unimpressed?

      I wouldn’t write with this certainty if I hadn’t seen the video myself, either.

    Milhouse in reply to JBourque. | October 15, 2018 at 4:53 pm

    Nope. He never made any pledge at all. Listen to the recording again. He tells the crowd what he will say if he ever gets to debate her. He tells them that at such time he will gently lob her a home test and challenge her to take it, promising at that time to pay $1M if it verifies her claims. Since this encounter never took place he never made the challenge or the offer. QED.

“and did the test anonymously, i.e. didn’t know whose blood it was.”

LOL, if you believe this then I have some Oceanfront Property in Arizona I want to talk to you about.

The only people she convinced it people that were convinced in the first place. Besides as the Prof says above there is more to claiming Native American status than DNA, in fact the Tribes don’t even take into account DNA.

    RandomCrank in reply to Gremlin1974. | October 15, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    Okay, you keep grumbling. I’ll keep chuckling.

      Gremlin1974 in reply to RandomCrank. | October 15, 2018 at 1:31 pm

      Fine with me, I will chuckle when the “blue wave” is more of a parking lot puddle. Oh and I actually support Warren for the Nomination. She looks, sounds, and is about as likable as Hillary, so the campaign ads kind of write themselves. Of course she will get stomped harder than the ground at a pow wow, but oh well.

    Gremlin1974 in reply to Gremlin1974. | October 15, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    I have been corrected on this, actually 2 of the recognized Cherokee Tribes do use a 1/64th and a 1/4th standard.

Folks, the world won’t end because she was proven correct. Remember, she never claimed to be a tribal member, or to be native. All she ever said was that family lore was that her great-great-great grandmother was native. The results are consistent with her story.

If the conservative case is going to collapse because of this, then all I can say is “just as well.” What, the whole edifice rests on this? I don’t think so. Come on, kids, take the medicine. You’ll live, and so will I.

It’s irritating to me that the results are being so widely misreported. The actual range is 1/64 (1 ancestor 6 generations back) to (1/1024 10 generations back) with the most probable result being 1/256 (0.4%, or 1 ancestor 8 generations back).

    RandomCrank in reply to tk. | October 15, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    You have a point, but I’m not sure it’s worth too much outrage.

    tk in reply to tk. | October 15, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Oh, and to be clear: the most probable result is that one of her 256 great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents was an Indian.

White woman speaks with forked tongue.

I have stray genes tracing back to western Asia. Doesn’t make me Genghis Khan.

Hi, I plagiarized the following from another blogsite that also despises Pocohantas:

< < < < < < < < < > > > > > > > > >

My analysis: Lying Lizzy has just given our President a huge gift. He should be happy and pay the $1M.

Here’s the text that got stripped from my earlier post:

1/1024 would be 11 generations back. If you considered a generation about 26 years, you would be going back to about 1663 AD (she was born about 1950), that a single native american would have been in her genealogy.

That would be well over a century before the American Revolution, and at that point, there was absolutely ZERO mixing of indian and Europeans. They were still hugely different cultures and lived seperately, were often in violent conflict with each other, etc.

    Colonel Travis in reply to JustSayN2O. | October 15, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    Also keep in mind, the test compared Warren’s DNA to that of Mexican, Colombian and Peruvian DNA – no native American DNA because none have ever offered DNA for this kind of testing. Tribes have been told by their leaders not to participate.

    So saying this proves say, Cherokee ancestry is wrong. I believe Warren has dropped the Cherokee story herself.

    This test is not evidence of anything except that there seem to be markers that might be minutely different from any other average whitey, or the same – or even less!

    The whole thing is a farce.

      “Also keep in mind, the test compared Warren’s DNA to that of Mexican, Colombian and Peruvian DNA.”

      That proves she is distantly related to the Spanish Conquistadors.

    Milhouse in reply to JustSayN2O. | October 15, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    That would be well over a century before the American Revolution, and at that point, there was absolutely ZERO mixing of indian and Europeans.

    That’s not true. There was plenty of mixing. Ever heard of Pocohontas? The real one?

MaggotAtBroadAndWall | October 15, 2018 at 2:18 pm

She submitted a recipe for “Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing” to the Pow Wow Chow cookbook. She signed the submission as “Elizabeth Warren – Cherokee”.

That is evidence she really believed she was part Cherokee. She stood to gain nothing identifying as a Cherokee for the cookbook entry.

Going further down this road looks like a dead end to me.

I saw that the Doc involved advised 23andMe, so I did a little research on Amazon user reviews(about 1 in 5 comments were 1-Star). One response from 23andMe to someone who’s grandparents were 100% Cherokee and Apache and received results that were 0% Native American Indian is interesting:

“23andMe4 months ago:
Thank you for your feedback. Having Native American DNA is different from having Native American ancestry. We understand that the distinction between ancestry and DNA can cause confusion. Results from 23andMe can only show you what can be seen in your DNA. Native American DNA is often lost with time and with every generation and may not be revealed in testing such as ours. For example, it only takes a couple of generations from a full-blooded Native American to lose all trace of Native American DNA.”

This is interesting considering the Stanford Doctor was able to find traces going back as much as 10 generations and even then it’s iffy. I’m sure Lizzy sent samples to all the DNA sites and got nothing – Hence finding someone at Stanford to perform a $10,000 procedure and even then applying squishy science to get the results she wanted.

It seems like a responsible journalist would contact 23andMe and get their comments. Crickets.

My guess is that the official result from this test was that there is a 1% degree of error on her less than 0.098% Cherokee results.

Democrat minds are made up…don’t confuse them with the facts…

    Anchovy in reply to D3F1ANT. | October 15, 2018 at 7:16 pm

    This is an excellent post. The Warrenites and the press will simply claim this is no longer an issue because she took a DNA test and the results showed Indian DNA. That’s it. No longer do we need to dwell on this right wingnut conspiracy. And, the Boston Globe will claim, she wasn’t born in Kenya either so the deplorables can go back to obsessing over their guns and marrying their sisters.

    Watch.

1/1024% Indian.

100% sleazy POS.

DieJustAsHappy | October 15, 2018 at 3:29 pm

What’s the big deal of genetic markers if one doesn’t have the ancestry to go with it?

My 23&Me DNA tests show I have more Neanderthal DNA in my genetic make-up than Elizabeth Warren has Native American DNA.

This vile harridan is as transparent as the day is long. Some flunky political consultant advised her to take the DNA test, to attempt to “get out in front” of the Chief Dropping Bull Fauxcahontas Liawatha narrative that Trump has so successfully lambasted her with. Probably the best strategy, under the circumstances, as the test’s results — however one chooses to interpret them — will muddy the waters to a sufficient degree for the purposes of the Dumb-o-crat primary.

The crone is running for the Dumb-o-crat nomination for President in 2020; it should be interesting to see her get her wrinkled derriere handed to her by Uncle Joe Biden, or, alternately, have a shiv stuck in her ribs by one of the ambitious young Turks (e.g., Cory Booker or Kamala Harris). This gladiator contest of SJW posturing, radical pandering and virtue-signaling will make for great entertainment.

Then, after the primary battle is over, and, the Leftist radicals have been flattered and kowtowed-to, we can watch the total makeover and theatrical sleight-of-hand, as the Dumb-o-crat nominee pulls a hard-right pivot to attempt to win over centrists and moderates by suddenly transforming into a flag-waving patriot, while pretending to love firearms, law enforcement officers, military servicemembers, businesses and corporations, and, America itself!!!

She’s native United States of American by constitutional law governing “our Posterity” and “the People”.

The only upside to this story is that we can now all claim to be Native Americans

I suspect that Black, Latino, and Native American activists would not be pleased if slots set aside for them at colleges and universities (to take just one example of “affirmative action”) started going to folks who can produce DNA tests “strongly supporting” the existence of a Black, Latino, or Indian ancestor six to ten generations back. In fact, such a policy would effectively nullify racial and ethnicity-based preferences.

At last, Liz Warren has created a path to end Affirmative Action.

    Related to that, I just realized that by using the Elizabeth Warren standard, at 1.2% “Iberian”, I can claim to be Hispanic. My son can claim 0.6%…so he is gonna rock the college application process.

I did the DNA teat via ancestry.com and it started out identifying me as over 60% Scandanavian and then changed it to over 70% Britain/Wales & Scotland. A family member had done a tree and it shows ancestors of the Powhatten community back in the Pocahontas time but I never claimed to be NA.

    That same thing happened to me! Changed from Primarily Scandinavian to Britain/Wales/Scotland. We’d never heard of any Scandinavian heritage, only British. We were quite confused until they sent an “update”. However, we’re still confused as to how that changed!
    Bizarre.

      puhiawa in reply to lc. | October 15, 2018 at 6:32 pm

      The Scots, Brits, Germans, Danes, Irish all have Scandinavian genes. The Vikings settled in all these areas (and other areas as well).

Next thing you know, Native Americans will be claiming they have white European DNA. Next thing you know,Barack Odumbo will try it.

So on her tenth try Shrieking Crow finally finds someone that says she may be part Mayan or something. I have ten times the Asiatic genetic material she claims (American Indian genetic material is primarily Siberian Asian, and do not make her claims.

So this is a serious request – contrary to Shrieking Crow’s claims (love that name puhiawa gave her)
I have had a heck of a time tracing my own family history back on my mother’s side. Her mother’s side was simple, her FATHER’s side, my grandfather, not so simple.
Family lore says that my grandfather’s mother was half Dutch and half Cherokee. Two other people on the web at the ancestry sites several years ago claim that this woman was also a relative her theirs and said the exact same thing about my ancestor – half Dutch, half Cherokee.
Parts of it make sense – she’s been impossible for me to trace, she and my great grandfather divorced and she lived with friends. Almost nothing else is known of her. Her last name was Vantries. I can trace her father back one more generation but find nothing at all of her mother, my great-great grandmother.
The fact almost nothing can be found, a divorce, mystery, and the fact that my mother was a big supporter of the “Indians” when Dad was watching the old westerns on TV, and Mom would jump in and say “they never did that” or “well, the Europeans taught them to scalp like that”. Hmmm, Mom, why so much support of the Native Americans….
I know – all of that is just, well, total speculation, total guess-work and proves ZIP, nothing, nada. BUT – the fact that family lore, and two others who are tracing the same woman, or trying to, claim she was half Dutch and half Cherokee – I want to KNOW.
Who can I turn to in order to settle this once and for all.
IF this is indeed true, I am far far more Native American than Warren ever dreamed and I’d be danged proud to add that to my family history records.
But I’ve hit dead ends – I want to either prove or disprove and stop guessing. The info came from somewhere, but my parents are both dead and I have no living relatives save for two younger brothers who know nothing of our family.
This is a serious question – I am mocking no one, save for perhaps a certain Democrat woman……. hey, lady, I may be far more Native American than you.

On the bright side if lizzy warren is accepted as native American then damned near everyone is … So the next time some liberal starts babbling about how whites should go home or how bad the Indians were treated or they were here first …

Colonel Travis | October 15, 2018 at 7:30 pm

The Cherokee statement is (appropriately) devastating to Warren.

I just realized that by using the Elizabeth Warren standard, at 1.2% “Iberian”, I can claim to be Hispanic. My son can claim 0.6%…so he is gonna rock the college application process.

GREAT JOB on Tucker Carlson’s show tonight, Professor!!!!

Professor – Great appearance on Tucker tonight! Good to see that the media have noticed your great work in the Warren saga.

Do all female Indians (can we palefaces still say Squaws?) wear blouses with sleeves that are too short for their arms? She is certainly wealthy enough to be able to afford long sleeves. What’s up with that?? Does she think her arms are that attractive?

regulus arcturus | October 15, 2018 at 9:07 pm

We need better DNA justice…

Link to view Professor Jacobson’s appearance on Tucker Carlson Tonight:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/5849189289001/?#sp=show-clips

1000 Thumbs Up, Professor !

Between the Kavanaugh mess and this, I think Trump has the ultimate troll on the democrats. They could not play these hands any better. Too Funny.

What else for mid terms are the Dems going to give up. Couldn’t ask for more in the news that this as free Dem’s are liars.

I just can’t be bothered with this idiocy. I know my ancestry all the way back to the 16th Century. We found out the old fashioned way – by actual legal records.

Peter got here in 1632, and his son Roger was born shortly thereafter, so yes, it IS my country. 😉

https://www.geni.com/people/Peter-Hill/6000000008176289310

To show you how creative my family is, 12 generations later we have my dad Roger Hill XXXXX and his brother Peter Hill XXXXX. As I told my son who visited the area last year, the real upside comes when the family burial plot is right next to the road in the front corner. Very little walking

Facebook says that it will block fake news! Now all we need to do is see what Facebook says about Elisabeth Warren in order to learn the truth. Zuckerburger would never lie.

    MajorWood in reply to SpaceInvader. | October 16, 2018 at 7:21 pm

    Googling “facebook elizabeth warren native american” was a pretty good ten minutes. I am wondering if Warren thinks that she took and passed a (D)MA test. Experience tells me that they are often inconclusive and can explain away anything. It is too bad that we no longer have Emily Litella to clear up these misunderstandings for us.

For whatever it’s worth, I changed my mind from being kinda-sorta pro-Warren on this to being anti-Warren. I made that change on the day it came out, and did it because of a post on this forum about her “Pow Wow Chow” cookbook, in which she not only claimed to be Cherokee but actually plagiarized the recipes.

Honest to God, you couldn’t make this s*** up, but she sure did!

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