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Kavanaugh Open Thread: Will Republicans grow a spine and stand up to anti-Kavanaugh smear campaign?

Kavanaugh Open Thread: Will Republicans grow a spine and stand up to anti-Kavanaugh smear campaign?

Democrats use new flimsy accusations to demand a halt to all further Judiciary Committee hearings, including Christine Blasey Ford testimony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L7PkP5vptc

This could be the reason why the Senate Democrats and Christine Blasey Ford kept trying to delay a hearing and confirmation for Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

The New Yorker dropped a story from Ronan Farrow about a woman alleging that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her during their time at Yale.

Sen. Chuck Grassley also released the letter from Ford that came into Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s possession in July.

Kavanaugh Letter to Judiciary Committee

Kavanaugh released another letter to Grassley and Feinstein:

These are smears, pure and simple. And they debase our public discourse. But they are also a threat to any man or woman who wishes to serve our country. Such grotesque and obvious character assassination—if allowed to succeed—will dissuade competent and good people of all political persuasions from service.

As I told the Committee during my hearing, a federal judge must be independent, not swayed by public or political pressure. That is the kind of judge I will always be. I will not be intimidated into withdrawing from this process. The coordinated effort to destroy my good name will not drive me out. The vile threats of violence against my family will not drive me out. The last-minute character assassination will not succeed.

Maryland Police Not Reviewing Second Kavanaugh High School Allegation

From The Washington Examiner:

The chief of police in Montgomery County, Md., says his officers are not looking into sexual misconduct allegations against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, appearing to contradict a local news report that “investigators” were looking at a potential second high school misconduct allegation.

“I have spoken with my chief of detectives, and neither of us have any knowledge of anyone coming forward to us to report any allegations involving Judge Kavanaugh,” police Chief J. Thomas Manger told the Washington Examiner in an email.

The Montgomery County Sentinel reported Monday that “Montgomery County investigators” were “looking at” a “potential second sexual assault complaint” dating from Kavanaugh’s senior year the Georgetown Prep high school “after an anonymous witness came forward this weekend.”

The local publication did not identify the “investigators” as police, but ordinarily police would investigate an alleged crime before a decision on whether to prosecute.

The Montgomery County Sentinel reported that the allegation “would potentially bring the number to four women accusing Kavanaugh of wrongdoing.”

New York Times Couldn’t Find Anyone to Corroborate Ford, Ramirez Told Some Yale Classmates She’s Not Certain It Was Kavanaugh

Buried in this New York Times article are two incredibly important details about the two allegations against Kavanaugh:

The Times had interviewed several dozen people over the past week in an attempt to corroborate her story, and could find no one with firsthand knowledge. Ms. Ramirez herself contacted former Yale classmates asking if they recalled the incident and told some of them that she could not be certain Mr. Kavanaugh was the one who exposed himself.

Ford’s Letter

We finally have the letter from Ford that Sen. Dianne Feinstein has had since July.

Avenatti Gets In On It

Stormy Daniels’ attention-seeking lawyer Michael Avenatti screamed on Twitter that he has a client who also has allegations against Kavanaugh.

Apparently Kavanaugh led a group of young men to train them how to gang rape….

Kavanaugh, White House Respond to Allegations

From Fox News:

“This alleged event from 35 years ago did not happen. The people who knew me then know that this did not happen, and have said so,” Kavanaugh said. “This is a smear, plain and simple. I look forward to testifying on Thursday about the truth, and defending my good name–and the reputation for character and integrity I have spent a lifetime building–against these last-minute allegations.”

White House spokesperson Kerri Kupec said: “This 35-year-old, uncorroborated claim is the latest in a coordinated smear campaign by the Democrats designed to tear down a good man. This claim is denied by all who were said to be present and is wholly inconsistent with what many women and men who knew Judge Kavanaugh at the time in college say. The White House stands firmly behind Judge Kavanaugh.”

Reactions

I’ll leave with this thread from Larry O’Connor:

Liberal Reaction to Allegations

Dorm Party Goes Wrong

Deborah Ramirez studied sociology and psychology at Yale University, the same time that Kavanaugh attended.

The New Yorker reached out to her, but she hesitated to tell her story due to gaps in her memories and the fact that she drank the evening of the alleged assault. From The New Yorker:

Ramirez said that, when both she and Kavanaugh were freshmen at Yale, she was invited by a friend on the women’s soccer team to a dorm-room party. She recalled that the party took place in a suite at Lawrance Hall, in the part of Yale known as Old Campus, and that a small group of students decided to play a drinking game together. “We were sitting in a circle,” she said. “People would pick who drank.” Ramirez was chosen repeatedly, she said, and quickly became inebriated. At one point, she said, a male student pointed a gag plastic penis in her direction. Later, she said, she was on the floor, foggy and slurring her words, as that male student and another stood nearby. (Ramirez identified the two male onlookers, but, at her request, The New Yorker is not naming them.)

A third male student then exposed himself to her. “I remember a penis being in front of my face,” she said. “I knew that’s not what I wanted, even in that state of mind.” She recalled remarking, “That’s not a real penis,” and the other students laughing at her confusion and taunting her, one encouraging her to “kiss it.” She said that she pushed the person away, touching it in the process. Ramirez, who was raised a devout Catholic in Connecticut, said that she was shaken. “I wasn’t going to touch a penis until I was married,” she said. “I was embarrassed and ashamed and humiliated.” She remembers Kavanaugh standing to her right and laughing, pulling up his pants. “Brett was laughing,” she said. “I can still see his face, and his hips coming forward, like when you pull up your pants.” She recalled another male student shouting about the incident. “Somebody yelled down the hall, ‘Brett Kavanaugh just put his penis in Debbie’s face,’ ” she said. “It was his full name. I don’t think it was just ‘Brett.’ And I remember hearing and being mortified that this was out there.”

The New Yorker contacted the classmates of Ramirez and Kavanaugh, but some did not respond to requests or declined to comment. Others told the publication that “they did not attend or remember the party.” One person spoke to Farrow:

A classmate of Ramirez’s, who declined to be identified because of the partisan battle over Kavanaugh’s nomination, said that another student told him about the incident either on the night of the party or in the next day or two. The classmate said that he is “one-hundred-per-cent sure” that he was told at the time that Kavanaugh was the student who exposed himself to Ramirez. He independently recalled many of the same details offered by Ramirez, including that a male student had encouraged Kavanaugh as he exposed himself. The classmate, like Ramirez, recalled that the party took place in a common room on the first floor in Entryway B of Lawrance Hall, during their freshman year. “I’ve known this all along,” he said. “It’s been on my mind all these years when his name came up. It was a big deal.” The story stayed with him, he said, because it was disturbing and seemed outside the bounds of typically acceptable behavior, even during heavy drinking at parties on campus. The classmate said that he had been shocked, but not necessarily surprised, because the social group to which Kavanaugh belonged often drank to excess. He recalled Kavanaugh as “relatively shy” until he drank, at which point he said that Kavanaugh could become “aggressive and even belligerent.”

Classmate Richard Oh said that he overheard after the party about “a female student tearfully recounting to another student an incident at a party involving a gag with a fake penis, followed by a male student exposing himself.”

Others who were there denied the event took place:

In a statement, two of those male classmates who Ramirez alleged were involved in the incident, the wife of a third male student she said was involved, and three other classmates, Dino Ewing, Louisa Garry, and Dan Murphy, disputed Ramirez’s account of events: “We were the people closest to Brett Kavanaugh during his first year at Yale. He was a roommate to some of us, and we spent a great deal of time with him, including in the dorm where this incident allegedly took place. Some of us were also friends with Debbie Ramirez during and after her time at Yale. We can say with confidence that if the incident Debbie alleges ever occurred, we would have seen or heard about it—and we did not. The behavior she describes would be completely out of character for Brett. In addition, some of us knew Debbie long after Yale, and she never described this incident until Brett’s Supreme Court nomination was pending. Editors from the New Yorker contacted some of us because we are the people who would know the truth, and we told them that we never saw or heard about this.”

The former friend who was married to the male classmate alleged to be involved, and who signed the statement said of Ramirez, “This is a woman I was best friends with. We shared intimate details of our lives. And I was never told this story by her, or by anyone else. It never came up. I didn’t see it; I never heard of it happening.” She said she hadn’t spoken with Ramirez for about ten years, but that the two women had been close all through college, and Kavanaugh had remained part of what she called their “larger social circle.” In an initial conversation with The New Yorker, she suggested that Ramirez may have been politically motivated. Later, she said that she did not know if this was the case.

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Comments

The answer to the question in the headline =

NO!

    The answer to the headline is obviously “No.” I am certain that Flake, Collins and Murkowski will insist that she be heard, then whoever Avanetti cooks up. If Grassley or McConnell had the votes to confirm him, they would have done it already. Fear is a terrible thing.

      dystopia in reply to Wing. | September 24, 2018 at 10:05 am

      The votes may be there to confirm. The Democrats can count votes also. If they votes were not there, why would they trot out a second accuser for more delay?

        Because they think that it will hurt the GOP in the midterms. Look at all the trolls suddenly appearing calling the GOP spineless and saying they are done with them, etc.

        I’m not saying everyone posting that thought is a troll. as we can all agree with that sentiment, so my apologies to the non-trolls expressing frustration.

        BUt expect lots of new posters and usual suspects to be harping endlessly on this theme. The idea is to now turn the anger that should be directed to ChiFi and the Dems to the GOP in the hopes of dampening GOP turn out for the midterms.

          Close The Fed in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 11:27 am

          Next thing you’re going to say, Elle, is that we’re russian bots!

          if the GOP can’t win when they’re in control, pray tell, WHEN CAN THEY?

          #WAR

          Colonel Travis in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 12:27 pm

          Laughing here. Yeah. Nothing will boost voter turnout for (R)s more than the (R)s folding on a SCOTUS nominee.

          elle in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 1:16 pm

          Laugh all you want to. The ONLY way to prevent such thuggish tactics in the future is to spank the Democrats so hard they never forget it.

          So there are two things you can do. You can be a sap and fall for the Dems no-lose formula where they destroy all civility and then tell you to stay home to punish the GOP for allowing them to do it, or you can go give Donald Trump a house and Senate majority so he can work to restore law and order.

          We can vote out the spineless senators next time. If we don’t get the majority, there may not be a next time, the thugs will have achieved a total victory.

          This is called the “ENDER’S GAME” response. It is effective because it works.

      Matt_SE in reply to Wing. | September 24, 2018 at 10:48 am

      Then the proper response from the GOP leadership is to OUT the obstructionists. Their constituents can exert pressure, even in the case of Flake.

      Why hasn’t the GOP leadership done that?

      I’m getting the feeling that this nomination will fail, and either we’ll never know who was responsible or we’ll get another sacrificial lamb with Flake taking on the same role as McCain.

      One amusing side note:

      If the GOPe hadn’t sabotaged Roy Moore, we would now have another vote in the caucus to prevent this debacle. That really was a monumental f*** up on the GOPe’s part.

    Anonamom in reply to tiger66. | September 24, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    Your answer was kinder than mine. I said, “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…”

I’m keeping my fingers crossed, but I’m not very hopeful…

    The aging rats of the GOPe haven’t the talent, the guts, nor the integrity to stand up for the country: they will never change.

    The only way to rescue the party is to vote out the rinos running and vote in conservatives – and END the lifetime ‘appointment’ to Congress simply by being elected a first time.

    Hold the old, corrupt guard’s feet to the fire to drive them out (witness Flake and Corker) and keep EXTREME tabs on newer elected GOP Congressmen or women. EXTREME tabs.

      Yeah, well, the primaries are over. You vote Republican or you vote Democrat. If the Dems win, that’s the last real election you’ll ever participate in. They always cheat. They cheat a lot better when they hold power.

I think they are finding some way to excuse themselves without a revolt. It’s not going to happen. Vote him in or face a revolt.

They had better find their spine fast.

HINT: Nothing you do will make the media happy except becoming Democrats. Not even then.

So grow a spine and confirm him!

Time for the 2nd Amendment option, people.

I should have given up on the Rs decades ago with Bork. This time I mean it though, if they cave I’m done.

I’m going to bed. Wake me up when they actually vote.

This whole saga boils down to one issue… abortion.

If the Republicans nominate someone who the left believes is pro-life they will stop at nothing to defeat that person. Period.

If Kavanaugh fails the blueprint is in place to defeat all future male Republican nominees. For this reason it cannot fail (unless a truly credible accusation surfaces).

In retrospect, the Trump administration should have anticipated this and nominated Amy Barrett. This still would have attempted to smear her but it likely would have revolved around her religion and would not have had the same effect in the end.

    It’s more than just abortion, it’s things like gun control and Masterpiece Cake Shop and a whole host of other infringements that have been accomplished via judicial activists on various federal courts. The left sees this as a life or death fight.

      For them, it actually IS a life-or-death fight. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, their sacred-cows start getting slaughtered on the Altar of Textualism and Originalism.

      Also, when that starts, expect Notorious RBG to either call it a day, or else finally keel over from the stress.

Ok the biggest problem is we still have too many squishes in the Senate. Flake and Collins in particular with Murkowski as another potential waffler. Flake is actually IN the judiciary committee. Dems only have to play to get those two to NOT vote for Kavanaugh. So its really more of a case of Grassley trying to keep all the Republican Senators on board to keep Kavanaugh as a viable nominee. Remember they can only afford 1 defection. Grassley for all his faults can’t just completely ramrod things as he has the endgame to consider, getting Kavanaugh approved.

To anyone living in a state with a active Senate race, YOU HAVE TO VOTE AND GET THE SENATE TO A LARGER MAJORITY!! We need to keep as many seats as possible (Cruz in TX) and grab as many extra as possibly can (Like say getting Vukmir in WI)

    guyjones in reply to pwaldoch. | September 24, 2018 at 10:18 am

    The three stooges are plumb-useless. Always easily-duped, weak-willed and ripe for exploitation, by the practiced and suave Dumb-o-crat hustlers. The Dumb-o-crats are always in the driver’s seat, even facing a GOP Senate majority, knowing that they can predictably peel off Collins, Flake and Murkowski from the caucus, as soon as the skies darken and the seas become a little choppy.

    It makes me think how nice it would be if the GOP could get three Dumb-o-crat senators to wobble, waver and engage in hand-wringing as predictably and as reliably as our trio of worthless stooges.

      Close The Fed in reply to guyjones. | September 24, 2018 at 10:36 am

      What I don’t get about Collins and Murkowski is, do they REALLY think GOP women are pro-abortion? I mean, REALLY, do they think that?

      Where do they go to talk to women? The Senate Cloakroom? Is that their only exposure to other women?

      Massinsanity in reply to guyjones. | September 24, 2018 at 10:53 am

      The discussions with Collins and Murkowski should not have anything to do with issues on which Kavanaugh may have a say, the focus must be on how the Democrats have played this out. Start with Feinstein sitting on the allegation for close to 2 months a strategy clearly designed to delay the vote until after the midterms, followed by the allegation itself with no location, no date and no corroborating witnesses (how convenient) and an accuser who has surrounded herself with partisan hacks. Add to that the wild accusations coming out of left field now to further impede the process.

      The appeal must be based on fairness and the potential for precedent being set for all future Republican nominees. I assume these people are Republicans for a reason and they must understand that to acquiesce now will only embolden the hard core leftists and poison all future Republican nominees.

        All well and good; I don’t necessarily disagree. But, it is nonetheless fair and pertinent to point out that, if Grassley didn’t have to perpetually worry about defections from Collins, Flake and Murkowski (the former two having made clear that they would not vote in support of Kavanaugh until the accuser had been “heard”) and could be confident that his caucus would stick together, he could have and should have proceeded directly to a Committee vote the minute that it was digested and understood that duplicitous Feinstein had sat on this allegation for one month and had concealed its existence from the Committee, while Kavanaugh was under oath, only to spring it as a transparently desperate, last-minute kamikaze slander attack. That would have been the proper and fair procedural posture, in response to a transparently dishonest and self-serving political stunt.

          Sen. Murkowski should have been run out of the Republican Caucus the INSTANT that she refused to abide by the terms of the primary and became a write-in candidate.

          She should have been stripped of EVERY committee appointment, her Office budget should have been zeroed and she should have been given the Broom-closet as an office in the Russell Senate Office Building.

          The fact that everybody tried to play nice with her then, is why she thinks she can get away with not toeing the line now.

      Subotai Bahadur in reply to guyjones. | September 24, 2018 at 2:48 pm

      You are not going to get three wobbly Democrat Senators because they know that the Democrats will make the Democrat Senators and the lives of their families short and interesting. Republican Senators know that if they go wobbly, the Republican Party will help them get re-elected at all costs.

    Matt_SE in reply to pwaldoch. | September 24, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Question: if we fill seats with more people like Flake, what good will that do us?

Guessing the next big twist is Ford heads off to testify but never shows up at the capital.

I hope she’s being escorted by law enforcement through the drive.

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to Voyager. | September 24, 2018 at 12:07 pm

    I am a point where I’d not be surprised if she gets run off the road at some convenient point. A variation on Arkancide. Then, the noise boxes like Senator Shutup of Hawaii point at the GOP and make all too predictable statements.

    Subotai Bahadur in reply to Voyager. | September 24, 2018 at 2:51 pm

    Not the FBI, because they work exclusively for the Democrats.

With the current batch of Senate jellyfish I doubt it. They will prolly all don pink pussy hats to try and mollify the fanatic democrats.

Democrat
b
o
r
t
i
o
n
This sums up the attacks on Kavanaugh.

Well, the comment section edited my beautiful anagram of the word “Democrat” with abortion coming from the “A” in democrat. Now it makes no sense. But abortion is the demorat party! That’s all this is about.

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to inspectorudy. | September 24, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    I’m sure there is an underlying subtext of not wanting an originalist when it comes to things like immigration, racial quotas affirmative action, and other causes so dear to the Democrats.

      Sorry for downvoting, stupid archaic software.

      But I’m with Rudy – this is all being done on the altar of abortion. Once we recover from being knocked back on our heels, we need to burn that abomination to the ground.

      “If your god commands you to burn little girls alive. your god is evil”

      https://youtu.be/X2eS9SbZ_Ec

      I no longer need to consider the finer points of the pro-abortion movement, I simply need to look at what its acolytes do in Its name.

      Simply put, my favorite Breitbart quote: “Fuck you. War”

        Fen in reply to Fen. | September 24, 2018 at 8:11 pm

        “How many died because you were wrong?”

        45 million.

        And we allowed it. We looked away as Dr Frankenstein’s lab was illuminated by lightning strikes. And now the Monster has come back to the village square.

Yes. Tom Cotton was spitting mad this morning

Avenetti’s “allegations” about gang rape and Ford’s comments in a yearbook about Fourth of July are completely unhinged. Can’t believe Ronan Farrow and the New Yorker have teamed up with him.

Her letter says she was in the Mid Atlantic vacationing. How did she get there? she already stated that she is afraid to fly…..

Republicans grow a spine?

Ha ha he he ho ho *gasp* !wheeze!

I never thought “despicable” would be too mild a word to describe anything, but in the case of these vile Democrats, it is. I am so disgusted with this behavior and how it has lowered the Senate to 60 feet below sewer level.

Why don’t we know what’s going on with the GOP side of the Judiciary committee? Why don’t we know what the hang up is?

It’s like the GOP leadership is intentionally keeping us in the dark. Why would they do that?

    Because Jeff Flake is waffling. He’s looking for cover to be able to protect his “legacy” so that his reputation doesn’t get smashed to tiny pieces right before he leaves the Senate for a cushy private-sector $7+ figure job, and he KNOWS that if he screws it up, he’s going to get hosed from both sides (as well as trash any future presidential ambition he might ludicrously have).

    Flake wants to look like he’s considering the options, but doesn’t want to be remembered by the Dim-wit-ocrats as the person who put Kavanaugh onto the Court when there was an allegation.

Another thing I can’t understand: all these GOPers, do none of them have two brain cells to rub together?

How can the standard be no sexual antics, when the dems have:

Creepy Joe Biden
Ted Kennedy
Barney Franks (whose “boyfriend” was running a prostitution ring out of his house)
Bill Clinton

The dems don’t care about sexual antics. And we know they paid $17 million of tax dollars for harassment claims.

I mean just who is fooling whom here? Preposterous, the whole thing.

Sexual antics unacceptable, but tearing American babies from limb to limb, we’re totes cool with that.

If you haven’t already done so, please consider calling Grassley’s office and saying, “Push Kav’s confirmation through against this smear job or get ready for a revolt against the Republicans running for office.” As of about and hour ago ago, there was no live person but there was an answering machine

202-224-3744

Everyone see this Tweet by Michael Avenatti last night about a comment brett Kavanaugh made in his yearbook? Avenatti should be disbarred https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044056219084828672

How is it that we have to get the rest of the story from The Daily Mail?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6199903/Brett-Kavanaugh-hit-SECOND-sex-misconduct-allegation-Yale-classmate-claims-exposed-himself.html

One of the male students who was alleged to have been egging Kavanaugh on told The New Yorker that he doesn’t remember the judge exposing himself to Ramirez.

‘I don’t think Brett would flash himself to Debbie, or anyone, for that matter,’ he said.

When asked why he thought Ramirez was making the allegation, he said: ‘I have no idea.’

When asked if he was egging on Kavanaugh, the classmate said: ‘I have zero recollection.’

Meanwhile, a group of Yale classmates alleged to have been involved in the incident have come out with a statement in support of Kavanaugh.

Two of the male classmates involved in the incident who were named by Ramirez released a statement disputing her account.

That statement was supported by the wife of a third male student that Ramirez said was involved as well as three other classmates – Dino Ewing, Louisa Garry, and Dan Murphy.

‘We were the people closest to Brett Kavanaugh during his first year at Yale,’ the statement read.

‘He was a roommate to some of us, and we spent a great deal of time with him, including in the dorm where this incident allegedly took place.

‘Some of us were also friends with Debbie Ramirez during and after her time at Yale.

‘We can say with confidence that if the incident Debbie alleges ever occurred, we would have seen or heard about it – and we did not.

‘The behavior she describes would be completely out of character for Brett.

‘In addition, some of us knew Debbie long after Yale, and she never described this incident until Brett’s Supreme Court nomination was pending.

‘Editors from the New Yorker contacted some of us because we are the people who would know the truth, and we told them that we never saw or heard about this.’

The wife of the third male student named by Ramirez said she and Ramirez were close friends during their days at Yale and that this incident was never mentioned.

‘This is a woman I was best friends with,’ she said.

‘We shared intimate details of our lives. And I was never told this story by her, or by anyone else.

‘It never came up. I didn’t see it; I never heard of it happening.’

She said she and Ramirez were part of a ‘larger social circle’ that also included Kavanaugh.

Ramirez is a registered Democrat. The woman speculated that the allegation could be politically motivated, though she later told The New Yorker she was not certain this was the case.

Ramirez denied that her coming forward was motivated by politics.

She said her interests are to work ‘toward human rights, social justice, and social change.’

When told about the statement released by students in support of Kavanaugh, Ramirez said she was ‘disappointed and betrayed’ by those who doubted her allegation ‘because I clearly remember people in the room whose names are on this letter.’

**************

By the way, has the Committee ever yet received the original accusation in writing, or a clean copy of it? If not, why has the Committee even entertained the notion of hearing this accuser or the next one?

Also, this business of serial disruptions — where did we see this just recently, orchestrated by Dick Durbin?

Man, just f*ck the left.

call/email grassley…. demand that they pull up their pants(ies) & do the right thing or tell them that you’ll stay home in November!

My prediction: If the Dems manage to prevent Kavanaugh’s confirmation, they will win the battle but lose the war.

Expect massive turnout with many new men (and women) voting straight GOP because this blatant 3rd world thuggery scares them.

Clearly the Dems will try to deflect the blame back to “spineless” GOP, in hopes of dampening turnout. Good luck with that! Have the seen the lines for the Trump rallies? I suppose we should be happy this grotesque circus will keep everyone fired up to get off their behinds and vote.

LOts of new white, black and Hispanic voters will bother to show up to help Trump get his republican majority. Lot’s of down-ticket Dem races will be lost as well. The dems have lost their mojo.

I predict a red tsunami.

    oldgoat36 in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 11:45 am

    Too many battles are being lost.
    This is being the main playbook issue the left are pushing, and if it works yet again against Kavanaugh, you will see being used against others in tight races.
    That would mean the war is lost.

      I know that you are not a troll. What is gained by beating up on the GOP for allowing the Dems to be complete and total thugs? Obviously they don’t have the votes. Flake, Corker and Collins have their story and they are sticking to it. We already know they are shameless.

      Encourage everyone you know to go out and vote a straight GOP ticket to punish the Dems. Spank them hard. Tell you fair-minded Dem friends to do the same.

      I still predict red-tsunami. Have you seen the lines for Trump rallies? Many people will show up to vote to help Trump restore law and order. **&&*the congress. We can deal with the spineless double dealers later. Send a message to restore law and order. VOTE

        What is gained is telling the Republicans that are spineless to stand up, and punch back 10x as hard, or else we will REPLACE them with someone who will.

        See President Donald J. Trump.

        The Democrat Party members do not need to be “negotiated” with. They need to be DEFEATED. Grind them, and grind them, and grind them until there is less than DUST left.

        Force hearings, MAKE the Democrats hold the floor for filibusters until they CANNOT stand anymore and collapse, MOVE the President’s agenda.

          When? At the midterm elections? What good will that do? The table is set. There candidates are who they are. THink about the message you are sending the Dems! Thug tactics work! Look, I get the GOP is weak, spineless and often corrupt. But it is what it is.

          Sometimes you have to choose between bad and worse. Look at the San Diego seat. The choice is Duncan Hunter or the grandson of the WTC bombing. Look, I’d love to see Hunter removed, but at what cost?? If Roy Moore had won, they might have had enough votes and we would not have had to endure this spectacle.

          SO the trolls are out in force, getting everyone riled up to stay home and punish the GOP, allowing the DEMS to pick up seats. Yeah, that’ll show the democrats not to act like that again!

          Vote RED, one last time, except in Cali, vote for the Prog running against ChiFi to show the Dems that this behavior won’t be tolerated. Send a message. VOTE!!

          But that said, I agree with much of what you are saying. I agree, “force hearings, MAKE the Democrats hold the floor for filibusters until they CANNOT stand anymore and collapse, MOVE the President’s agenda.”

          BUt when it comes time to vote, don’t stay home or try to punish the GOP candidates. It is a futile effort at this point in the game.

Is Trump allowed to make a guest appearance at the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting? Is he allowed to bring some guests? Like Juanita Broddrick? Paula Jones? Monica Lewinsky? An honor guard bearing a wreath for Mary Jo Kopechne? A list of all congressional sexual harrassment settlement claims?

There’s more than one way to go nuclear, you know.

Are we so sure it’d spinelessness? What if it’s worse?

https://youtu.be/QojajMsd2nE

It is now 1 pm where I live. There has been no word from Grassley’s office as to whether he will capitulate to Feinstein’s demand that the hearings be indefinitely postponed and the FBI brought in. I am certain that he is waiting to hear what Flake, Collins and Murkowski tell him to do. I will be shocked if he does not give the Dems everything they demand. It is an amazing thing to watch an entire political act completely from fear.

    elle in reply to Wing. | September 24, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Yeah, that’s exactly what he is probably doing. You say that like he’s bad for doing that. What’s he supposed to do? Point a gun at someone? Corrupt Corker and Flake have nothing to lose by flipping off the President and they give cover to Collins.

    The worst thing that could happen to Kavanaugh is to be voted down. Better to keep twisting arms until hopefully something else happens and the vote goes their way.

      Fen in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 5:23 pm

      “What is he supposed to do”

      A failure of imagination. Remember that line from 9-11?

      I know you are acting in good faith, but I grew up hearing “not this hill, we don’t have the votes, nothing can be done”

      And then Trump did it. Easily. And I will never buy into that lie again.

      There’s another good quote: “At the moment of truth, people come with either Excuses or Results. What do you bring?”

      No more failure theater, no more lies, no more cowardice masquerading as civility or wisdom.

There is a real war going on between the MeToo movement and the basic rules of evidence. What MeToo is demanding is that no matter how old the accusations, there does not have to be any evidence at whatever level to prove guilt. Accepting that destroys one of the pillars of our society.

Why is it so hard to understand that Grassley doesn’t have the votes? Flake, Corker, Collins, they got what they needed to vote no. How would it help to call the vote? Sheesh. The worst thing that could happen to Kavanaugh is that they vote and he loses. Better that they don’t even vote.

    NO. The WORST thing that could happen is that the Grassley and McConnell CAVE, and don’t FORCE the vote.

    In that instance, the Republican voters throw up their hands, and STAY HOME in November. Does NO ONE on that side of the fence remember 2006? The Republicans REFUSED to grow a spine and fight for GW Bush. What did we get? EVERYBODY stayed home, and made it a DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS for 2006-2008, and followed up with President OBAMA and a DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS, because the Republicans, even in the Minority REFUSED to fight.

    The voters WILL abandon “leadership” that won’t fight for them. They would rather see them DEFEATED in the election, and try with a better candidate in 2-4 years.

    fishstick in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    absolutely wrong stance there

    even if Kavanaugh loses on the Senate floor, then it is infinitely better than having no vote at all because it exposes the Republicans who took these false allegations at face value without any shred of evidence

    you see if there is no vote, then the RINOs could run around their home state saying “well, I didn’t vote no” so you can’t hold what happened to Kavanaugh on me

    because they would be on record saying Nay! and that can hold future consequences for their political career

    THIS has to end with a vote even if Kavanaugh cannot be confirmed

      Grassley should not vote until he has the votes. He should be twisting arms and doing whatever he can do until the very last second to try and drum up the votes. If can’t get them, then maybe, on the last day, force the vote to make them go on record and suffer the consequences – of which there will be none for those who vote no.

elle, I can’t speak for every voter, I’m not telling anyone to do what I do, I can only speak for myself. I am done with elections for an indeterminate amount of time if the (R)s fail to put in Kavanaugh. It’s got nothing to do with sending a message, nothing to do with party purity, nothing to do with (D)s demoralizing me and everything to do that I’ve been pissed off for decades with a (R) party that refuses to fight and I’ve had enough. I vote for (R)s to be aggressive and active. They’ve been passive and inactive.

No Kavanaugh = my breaking point.

I became a conservative many years ago and even before my conversion I never understood why the (R) party never fought as hard as the (D)s. It hasn’t changed. I am hoping and praying it changes with Kavanaugh. If so, you’ve got my vote.

In theory, yes, the only way to stop (D)s is to vote (R)s. In reality, that will not happen when (R)s let voters down over and over. Your argument of “we need to stop the (D)s” does not work when the people you vote for never stop the (D)s.

I promise this time!
Oh wait – that was last time. I swear, this time we’ll be good.
Dangit, look, I know it looks bad, but THIS time I swear….

If you think I’m the only one who thinks this you are nuts.
Republicans Have A Simple Choice: Vote To Confirm Kavanaugh Or Get Slaughtered In November
http://thefederalist.com/2018/09/24/republicans-simple-choice-confirm-kavanaugh-get-wiped-november/

    Colonel Travis in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 24, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    oops – this reply was supposed to go way up top.

    the problem with that line of thinking is you are playing into the left’s playbook by not being involved in the first place

    WE still have to come out in droves to vote for Republicans because the alternative is more far left drivel

    your argument would be more like a young punk driving your head into the ground and instead of resisting, you just let him continue till you are dead

    no thanks – I’ll keep fighting even if by my only way of doing so is holding my nose and voting for some scrub |R| politician

    because the alternative choice |D| is likely far worse

      Colonel Travis in reply to fishstick. | September 24, 2018 at 2:51 pm

      the problem with that line of thinking is you are playing into the left’s playbook by not being involved in the first place

      Oh really? So there is no other part of the equation other than the left trying to demoralize me? How come they’ve been attempting to do that since I started voting for (R)s in elections 36 years ago and it never affected me until now?

      Republican action = what I do. I don’t care what (D)s do. They’ve been slimeballs my entire life. I care what (R)s do. Why doesn’t this register with you?

      I’m not sure why you and others give every hypothetical credence except the one that disappoints you (and me) the most: that (R)s can only earn more votes by beating (D)s. Then they can come to voters and say: we did X, Y and Z just like we said we would.

      Elect a Republican in 2018 so we can not confirm judges like we didn’t confirm Kavanaugh! So we can’t build a wall! So we can’t completely obliterate Obamacare!

      What a slogan. Trump can propose these things. But he’s not a king and cannot get them accomplished by himself. He is the party leader, though, and as the party leader, I hope he is doing all he can behind the scenes with Congress. I do not know. All I know is what the results have been – some good, some not good. Not confirming a judge is extremely bad.

      If the (R) party cannot confirm this judge on such BS charges, the party is dead. If they can confirm him, it gives people like me hope and a reason to vote for them

      I don’t vote for a majority party to behave like a minority party.

      The left is so easy to beat. So freaking easy to beat. I do not understand why they’re not pummeled into the ground.

        “Elect a Republican in 2018 so we can not confirm judges like we didn’t confirm Kavanaugh”

        Yup.

        1) we can’t do X untill we control the House
        2) thanks,but we still can’t do X unless we control the Senate
        3) thanks but sadly we can’t do X until we have the Oval Office
        4) thanks again, but we can’t do X unless we gain a super-majority..

        5) Wow, we got it, but we can’t do X now or we’ll lose our majority… hey what’s with all that rope?

      Subotai Bahadur in reply to fishstick. | September 24, 2018 at 3:03 pm

      Just in passing; if the Republican Party’s main goal is to submit to the Democrats and collect a payoff for doing so, and if the Republican Party machinery will work to try to make sure that no one who will oppose Democrats makes it past the primary, what is the reason to support them? And if there is only functionally one Party running the government, and the Constitution and rule of law have been rendered moot, why obey them and their methods?

    I would not expect a colonel to so easily wave a white flag.

      Colonel Travis in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 3:25 pm

      The (R)s have raised the white flag for decades, not me. I support winners, not losers.

      Look, you haven’t reached your breaking point and I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else to join me. You do whatever want to do.

      All I want to know is if you think a failed Kavanaugh confirmation helps or hurts the (R) cause in 2018? Again, I don’t want to know what you think voters should do in such a scenario, I already know what you think they should do. I’m asking you to consider a hypothetical you have not addressed.

      I don’t see how any rational person can argue against this:
      A Kavanaugh confirmation helps (R)s in 2018.
      A failed Kavanaugh confirmation hurts (R)s in 2018.

      Can you make a convincing case otherwise?

        No, I don’t think a Kavanaugh loss HELPS the GOP in November.

        There are two things going on here –
        1. The Kavanaugh vote. Does Grassley have the votes or doesn’t he? We don’t know. Likely he does not. But maybe he’s not getting in the way of an enemy while he’s destroying himself and will pull off the vote at the 11th hour and we will all be so thoroughly disgusted by the Dem thugs that Tester and the other red-state dems will be booted helping Trump get his agenda through.

        Yes, a loss for Kavanaugh is on bad for the GOP, but it’s only bad for the GOP if you stay home and allow the dems to pick up seats. Thus we see all the trolls out in force.

        Let me ask you a question. You say you only back winners. What winners are you backing? If you stay home, clearly you aren’t backing anyone, you’ve just given up.

          Colonel Travis in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 5:04 pm

          All I wanted to know is if you comprehended what a Kavanaugh failure means. And you do, so thanks for answering that.

          As for your question, you can read my comments all over this page that should answer it. I have nothing more to add because I’d just be repeating myself.

          elle in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 5:22 pm

          But you have made clear that you support winners, not losers. Surely you’d like to share with this board the winners that you are supporting.

      Colonel Travis in reply to elle. | September 24, 2018 at 3:26 pm

      PS, I did not downvote you.

    “nothing to do with (D)s demoralizing me” No, it has to do with the R’s demoralizing you – except it’s the R’s response to the Dems actions that you’re complaining about. Same coin, different side, same result.

      Colonel Travis in reply to txvet2. | September 24, 2018 at 4:27 pm

      No kidding? Who else am I supposed to turn to? Libertarians? Some mysterious political party that will come riding in on a white horse? The only political party that can stop the (D)s are the (R)s. A vote for anyone else is useless. And right now, for me, the (R) party is riding on the precipice of useless.

      If the (D)s stopped behaving insidiously but still voted against my principles because they had intellectually honest, up-front, non-BS disagreements, would that make me vote (R)?

      No.

      Only (R)s can make me vote for (R)s. This shouldn’t be a hard principle to understand.

      I’ve worked on several (R) state and federal campaigns, I was the campaign manager for a state (R) house campaign. I have worked for a (R) member of Congress. I have done things than the average voter has not done in support of the (R) party, and I have seen up close and personal the failures of the (R) party behind the scenes, so don’t assume I haven’t given this much thought or even effort.

        Colonel, the enemies army is breaking through our flank and may overrun us. We’ve asked our General’s for additional support and it’s been denied. What should we do? Should we fight to the last man with our bayonets to prevent them from advancing further?!

        Colonel, What! The generals are not supporting us? If we win the battle, those scumbags will get a promotion they do not deserve. Put down your weapons men! Let’s teach those bast&&s a lesson they won’t soon forget!!

    fishstick in reply to Valerie. | September 24, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    sorry – downvoted you by accident

    yes it looks like a photocopy instead of a forwarded message

    I mean that top line of the paragraph looks terrible which makes you wonder if Feinstein’s effort was so bad that it could be seen as a middle finger to Grassley

    alaskabob in reply to Valerie. | September 24, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    Different font, but to me is also angled. The “Bret Kavanaugh” appears to have a subtle slope to intersection with the rest of the line as if scanned and paste attempt to insert his name. Someone needs to really look at this forensically… VERY closely.

    It’s either cut and paste or a middle schooler wrote it. “Me and a friend”? I’m sorry, this cannot have been written by PhD’er in any discipline.

      Colonel Travis in reply to Wing. | September 24, 2018 at 3:13 pm

      Seriously, I know PhDs and MBAs who use that exact language. It’s a sign of how abysmal the American alleged education system is.

Nick Nolte notices something all “witnesses” named by the accusers of Kavanaugh have in common. They corroborate Kavanaugh.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/09/24/every-witness-named-kavanaughs-accusers-sides-kavanaugh/

Reality check-

This occurred in a college dorm with 6-10-15 people present. Some one yelled down the hall that BK stuck his penis in her face. Does anyone believe that word would not have spread like wildfire?

I lived in a college dorm for 2 years in the mid 70’s. There is absolutely 100% probability that word of such an event would have made it to at least one RA and the head RA within a couple of days.

No discipline, No RA reports – Get real.

    KEYoder in reply to Joe-dallas. | September 24, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    I know it’s just a small point, but why has no one commented on the language supposedly used? Given the scenario described by Ramirez,I see almost no chance that some college-age, drunk guy would have used the word “penis” in this context. It immediately struck a discordant note the first time I read Ramirez’s story.

Just to add a little perspective … Every single witness … Named by both women … Has supported kavanaugh

When I was sixteen I was an idiot. When I was seventeen and if you wanted to charge me as an adult I couldn’t have mounted much of a defense. I put a cam shaft in a Ford 302 that had no business being there. But there it was. It made the whole engine suck. But that was me. Sixteen.

First line of the second paragraph is a larger point then the rest. Not unusual if trying to emphasize something- but I’d have used the bold function. Does a better job.

But the second line appears to be a smaller point than the first line and the third and below. There’s no rational explanation for that.

But I really don’t care about any of that. She’s rather obviously lying about the whole thing as soon as she mentions Kavanaugh.

She may possibly at some point in her life been assaulted in some manner by some male somewhere, maybe even in high school in someone’s private house. I would bet my next paycheck Kavanaugh wasn’t involved. I wouldn’t bet a dime that she was ever sexually assaulted by anyone anywhere ever. I like sure bets.

Anybody have a link to the ford letter? I can’t read it here…

Got it by blowing it up with Ctrl +

She received medical treatment.
There would be record of that.

    alaskabob in reply to snowshooze. | September 25, 2018 at 2:10 am

    As minor, med records kept till age 28 unless she has copy or continuous care till last 7 years. Doubtful and if she
    Has a “copy” very dubious.

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