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UN Security Council Passes Anti-Israel Resolution, U.S. Abstains

UN Security Council Passes Anti-Israel Resolution, U.S. Abstains

The U.S. leaves Israel out in the cold.

The UN Security Council has voted to pass the anti-Israel resolution. The U.S. went ahead and abstained to vote, not standing up for her only ally in the Middle East. This is the first time in 36 years the UN condemned settlements.

As Professor Jacobson described:

The Resolution in question is pernicious. It declares any Israeli presence beyond the 1949 armistice line (the so-called pre-1967 line) illegal. That means Israeli control of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City would be illegal, as would the presence of Jews in the Jewish Quarter, which Jordan had ethnically cleansed of Jews and ransacked. It also would mean Israeli control of the Western Wall would be illegal.

If Obama abstains, he will have allowed the UN to strip Jews of their history.

Trump promised change:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/812390964740427776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

U.S. Ambassador Samantha power has attempted to justify why America chose not to stand next to Israel:

https://twitter.com/GlobalNews_ENG/status/812381029013000192

Here is the text of the resolution:

The U.S. has veto power on the council, which it has generally used to shelter “Israel from condemnatory resolutions.”

Jewish leaders express regret over the U.S. choice to abstain from the vote:

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/812358399270785024

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Comments

Humphrey's Executor | December 23, 2016 at 2:37 pm

What a windfall for the enemies of Israel.

    I don’t think it changes things on the ground. The U.N. spits out these one-sided anti-Israel resolutions so often, the process has become total farce. It’s just Obama’s venting his vindictive spleen for the last time.

    Trump is coming, and, he has Israel’s back 110%; that’s what matters.

      Milhouse in reply to guyjones. | December 23, 2016 at 3:32 pm

      The General Assembly regularly spits out anti-Israel resolutions, but the GA is irrelevant. It has no power, and its resolutions are not worth the toilet paper they’re printed on. The security council is very different, and until now the USA has prevented it from passing such resolutions. Thankfully this is not a Chapter 7 resolution, so it’s not binding international law, but it’s bad enough.

Israel and the US should pull out of the UN.

The US should cease all financial support to the UN.

The US should issue an expulsion order to the UN – find another home country within one year. Bye, and thanks for the fish.

The US should support Israel in every way while Israel addresses existential threats from all around.

All because Obama is butt hurt and wanted to prove he is still President… Time for President Trump on Jan 20th 2017 to move assets into position and when the time is right declare his right to 90 days of military operations to eliminate all terrorists in the Palestinian territories…

As if I needed any more reasons to despise Obama. What a petty pissant lowlife whose entire presidency has been a giant middle finger.

Aside from that, he’s OK.

Wouldn’t be easier to just rename the Dems the National Socialist American Workers Party after this insult?

One last petulant, self-aggrandizing policy defecation from the despicable reprobate and infantile egomaniac Obama, eager to show some vestige of relevance with an impending Trump presidency less than one month away.

Aleppo lies in ruins, merely the latest Obama foreign policy failure, but, making one last anti-Israel jab before his fawning U.N. audience is too much for him to resist.

Unfortunately I am not surprised. Obama has spent 8 years going his own way, which has been against the will of the American people and against most of his party as well.

Throughout, a large number of groups who knew his positions gave him money and endorsements anyway. Many of these are screeching about President Elect Trump, who has already demonstrated his support more than this other guy. I just don’t understand how these lefties think? Bah!

Obama and Kerry disgust me, and make me feel ashamed for our country.

    DieJustAsHappy in reply to Callipygian1. | December 24, 2016 at 11:39 am

    I would have stopped at “Obama and Kerry disgust me.” Your sentiment about the country is understandable. Yet, this most recent election has made it plain they’re not America.

    Be proud of her because of refuting Hillary, Obama, et al.

Taking a line from the Dune SyFy series…. need to sand scrub the White House to within a mm of its frame to rid the White House of the Obama stench.

I’m surprised Rice didn’t vote yes – Obama was probably wondering if he could get away with approving that.

Shameful.

I just repeat what Henry said upthread.

So ashamed. Words don’t suffice.

If the borders of East Jerusalem don’t change, then who does East Jerusalem belong to? Jordan? The British, since Jordan was an occupier. Certainly not the Palestinians who didn’t exist at that time and never had a country.

I think it is time for the US to cut all ties to the UN and expel it from its territory.

Shameful, and expected as an Obama’s final attempt to put Israel on poor footing for the final negotiations, due to his “Arab first” mentality. Also a poor attempt to hamstring the incoming Trump administration.

Unfortunately for the UN and Obama administrations, I fully expect that the Trump administration is going to show up and promptly tell everybody involved that “that was the OLD administration. We’re the NEW one, and we don’t care, because we’re going to ignore it.”

However, not all bad. See Paragraphs 6 and 7.

Israel can use this to DEMAND that Hamas recognize Israel’s right to exist prior to ANY further negotiations, and state that since Hamas and the PA are effectively in a power-sharing governmental agreement, that Hamas’ failure to so control the terrorists attacking Israel constitutes a continued violation of the Palestinian Authority requirements under both the Quartet Roadmap and all other UN resolutions.

Also, I think that this actually gives Israel grounds to crush the PA upon the next rocket attack launched from a PA-controlled territory. The instant that happens, Israel should roll tanks into that region and occupy a square mile militarily, and flatten any Palestinian controlled structure within that 1 square mile as an Insurgent Action and failure to abide by the two-state solution on the part of the PA.

Specific language of paragraph 6:

Calls for immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation and destruction, calls for accountability in this regard, and calls for compliance with obligations under international law for the strengthening of ongoing efforts to combat terrorism, including through existing security coordination and to clearly condemn all acts of terrorism.

EVERY time the Israelis are bombed, attacked, have a rocket fired at them or so much as a Arab youth throw a stone at an Israeli soldier, the Ambassador should hold up this resolution and DEMAND that the Security Council send troops to subdue HAMAS and the Palestinian Authority as terrorist organizations, failing to abide by respective required acts under prior UN resolutions.

Alinsky Rule number 4 is in effect. Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.

If the UN wants to live by the sword, it can be crushed by the weight of wielding that sword in a biased manner.

smalltownoklahoman | December 23, 2016 at 4:35 pm

Obama couldn’t help but pull on last petulant act to harm our best ally in the area. It’s a good thing Israel has been building relations with other countries such as India who have no love for muslim terrorists. Hopefully before Trump is done the harm caused by this one last backstabbing can be undone.

Color me surprised. Can it be that obutthole is lying again? I do hope Trump has Sessions look into every aspect of barry’s tenure and finds any and all things prosecutable. Drain the swamp, stick it where the sun doesn’t shine and break it off hard.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3920214/Obama-invites-Trump-meet-congratulates-victory.html

Obama, urging unity, says he’s rooting for Trump’s success

http://www.dailynews.com/government-and-politics/20161109/president-obama-says-hell-smooth-transition-of-power-to-donald-trump

President Obama says he’ll smooth transition of power to Donald Trump

Boris Ryvkin: Obama – who American Jews supported by 70-80% – just gave green light to ICC, BDS & hostile states to compromise Israel on multiple fronts.

I think that if Boris were to look into this, he’d find that that 70-80% of American Jews he mentions are Democrats first, Americans second, and Jews a distant third. They believe what The New York Times & Taco Stand and the U.N. say about Israeli “occupation” and “settlements”, and support BDS and Palestine over Israeli independence.

IOW, they drink the “Progressive” Kool-Aid and have no appreciation (or respect, or tolerance) for their cultural history.

Archer, you are absolutely correct about how the liberal Jews view themselves – but it wouldn’t stop them from being shoved into the ovens, if the Progressives ever get their way again, anymore than it prevented their grand-and great-grand parents from being shoved onto trains.

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2016/12/23/sick-irony-look-what-obama-did-today-while-his-admin-stabbed-israel-in-the-back/

President Obama on Friday marked the start of the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah, offering well wishes to those who celebrate in the U.S. and worldwide.

“As night falls over each of the next eight days, Jews in the United States, Israel and around the world will gather to light their Hanukkah menorahs, display them proudly in the window and recall the miracles of both ancient times and the present day,” Obama said in a statement.

“For more than two millennia, the story of Hanukkah has reminded the world of the Jewish people’s perseverance and the persistence of faith, even against daunting odds.”

There are no words…

A despicable action by a despicable little man. At least Israel has a friend coming into the presidency, not a co-conspirator.

“Well, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten me into” said Ollie to Stan. Laurel and Hardy were clowns of course, so we could all laugh and chuckle at their foibles.

Here, though, is a President of the United States who, with less than 30 days left in office, is commuting the sentences of armed criminals, blocking the use of natural resources, imposing sanctions against Russia and now aiding our enemies in their conflict with our allies.

He has neither the opportunity nor the intention of solving any of these problems while still in office. He’s acted maliciously to destroy or interfere in the decades of work put forth by other men.

Will his own party now step up and join with the Republicans to remove him from office on Monday morning? Or are they going to wait until he triggers Armageddon?

ugottabekiddinme | December 23, 2016 at 7:16 pm

One last petulant, self-aggrandizing policy defecation from the despicable reprobate and infantile egomaniac Obama”

One can only hope and pray it’s the last . . .he still has till noon on January 20, 2017, to muck things up further.

One of the products of this vote is that it will divide the Democrat party. At a time when the Democrat party is doing some soul searching on how they lost an election that was virtually guaranteed, they are now facing a situation where a great many Democrats who are either Jewish or strongly support Israel are very angry over this vote for it represents an ethical collapse in the party and portends an extreme backlash from the public over this action.
>
This vote at the UN will have two overwhelming results. The first is that the Democrat party will be split and forced into a crisis even worse than what it was facing. Forever more, the Democrat party will be known as the party that stabbed Israel in the back. If the Democrats are willing to stab in the back a long time and avid ally such as Israel, then what promise does that give all of our other allies?
>
The second result is that it clarifies Obama’s legacy. No longer will Obama be remembered for the failed Obamacare, the politicization of many US agencies, his complete and utter inability to work with others, his rampant use of edict to promulgate law, his dishonesty, his undeserved ego, his inability to accomplish anything successful, his constant use of the race card, his extreme efforts to divide the nation, his feckless foreign policy, and his horrific handling of the US economy (which is increasingly being viewed by even the most liberal as failing and failing badly). Now Obama will be viewed as the first Muslim President who took away victory in Iraq and replaced it with defeat, who helped create ISIS, who helped kill hundreds of thousands in Syria by supporting terrorists trying to overthrow Assad, by destroying our best ally in Libya/North Africa, by creating the conditions that led to a mass migration of Muslims from the Middle East to Europe, who gave Iran a pathway to nuclear weapons and the necessary rocket technology that could be used to terrorize the world, and who stabbed Israel in the back just because. No longer will his claims of being a Christian be taken seriously and now, even the most ardent liberals, are questioning Obama’s placement among the worst US Presidents.

UN Security Council Passes Anti-Israel Resolution, U.S. Abstains

Not sure what aspect of the resolution to which people are objecting.

“cessation of all Israeli settlement activities is essential for salvaging the two-State solution”

“immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror”

    Read the resolution CLOSELY.

    I’ll wait. … … … Done? Good.

    It’s the paragraph 3 part about: Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations.

    HAMAS and the Palestinian Authority refuse to recognize any Israeli sovereignty over non-1949 areas, including East Jerusalem and the old Jewish quarter of the city, and the PA (PLO) have refused multiple highly-reasonable negotiated swaps of territory. As the good Professor above noted, it puts the Temple Mount under PA control (which means no worship there will EVER be allowed by non-Muslims).

    Further, the definition of “settlement activities” to the PA and HAMAS is VERY fluid. Basically their definition of “Settlement Activities” means ANY Jew living outside the 1949 lines. HAMAS / the PA are going to use this as a UN-Legal attempt to ethnically cleanse post 1967 lands by making Jewish residence in those lands illegal pursuant to PA / HAMAS law.

      Chuck Skinner: Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations.

      That’s right. Except through negotiations.

      Chuck Skinner: Further, the definition of “settlement activities” to the PA and HAMAS is VERY fluid. Basically their definition of “Settlement Activities” means ANY Jew living outside the 1949 lines.

      Many Israelis claim the West Bank. They migrate into occupied territory in order to stake their claim there. The problem is that this undermines any reasonably contiguous two-state solution, but a one-state solution is not viable for Israel.

        ConradCA in reply to Zachriel. | December 24, 2016 at 1:50 pm

        Only those who embrace a second Holocaust, i.e. the slaughter of millions of Jews, want a two state solution.

          ConradCA: Only those who embrace a second Holocaust, i.e. the slaughter of millions of Jews, want a two state solution.

          Certainly Israel has the right to security. What do you propose?

          A 100% weapons free Palestinian State would be a good start, a-la Japan post WWII. But they’ll never agree to it, becuse they’re not interested in their own state, they’re interested in the ISRAELI real estate.

          ConradCA: A 100% weapons free Palestinian State would be a good start

          So a one-state solution, with Israel controlling the Palestinians. That’s much the current, unstable situation.

          Sorry, “A 100% weapons free Palestinian State would be a good start” should have been attributed to Chuck Skinner.

          To put Chuck Skinner’s statements together, Israel should disarm the Palestinian, then commit genocide, and those Palestinians that escape should find homes elsewhere.

          We already know you’re a leftist TROLL, but its increasingly becoming apparent that you cant READ, either.

          Sorry, “A 100% weapons free Palestinian State would be a good start” should have been attributed to Chuck Skinner.

          To put Chuck Skinner’s statements together, Israel should disarm the Palestinian, then commit genocide, and those Palestinians that escape should find homes elsewhere.

          See my other replies for a breakdown of your lack of insight.

          Short version: Israelis need to be fighting with the same rules the Arab Squatters are bringing to the table, WHICH IS NONE. The Arabs that call themselves “Palestinian” will do anything and cross any line in order to damage Israel or its populace. See relentless rocket attacks and bombings against civilian soft targets with no military connection what so ever, Arab teens wielding knives in public places stabbing anyone who they even think is a Jew,
          Arabs driving cars through crowded markets to kill as many as they can, and Murder of babies in their cribs (see the Itamar Massacre).

          When you can defend Arab use of these tactics, THEN you can lecture me about my beliefs that the Israelis should bring genocidal force to the table to force the Arabs to “fight fair.”

          Chuck Skinner: When you can defend Arab use of these tactics,

          Attacks against civilians are criminal acts.

          Chuck Skinner: THEN you can lecture me about my beliefs that the Israelis should bring genocidal force to the table to force the Arabs to “fight fair.”

          That’s what we thought you said, that Israel should use genocidal force.

          Attacks against civilians are criminal acts.

          That statement is the problem with your worldview. These are not “criminal acts.”

          They are acts of terrorism by non-uniformed militia, or worse, directed civilians without controls, against a separate sovereign nation-state, while using the remaining local populace as human shields.

        That’s right. Except through negotiations.

        You cannot negotiate with someone who’s starting point is your death. They will never accept anything less, and you can’t give it unless you’re willing to die (and in this case, it is the death of an entire RACE of people).

        The PA squatters have been offered everything they asked for and MORE in the past at the table, and rejected the negotiated settlement.

        They don’t WANT to negotiate. They WANT to push every Jew into the Sea.

          Chuck Skinner: You cannot negotiate with someone who’s starting point is your death.

          You only make peace with your enemies.

          Chuck Skinner: The PA squatters

          The Palestinians have been in the region since antiquity.

          Zachriel: Wrong and wrong.

          You only make peace with your enemies – true, but only after handing them a crushing military defeat. Should Could the USA have made peace with Japan after Pearl Harbor but before Hiroshima?

          The Palestinians have been in the region since antiquity – sure, if by “antiquity” you mean about a century. Maybe between 1% and 5% have been there longer. But no smaller a percentage of the Jews have been there for thousands of years. So you are very misinformed, and not to be taken seriously.

          Yackums: The Palestinians have been in the region since antiquity – sure, if by “antiquity” you mean about a century.

          That is incorrect. Studies of the y-chromosome show that Palestinians (as well as Jews) have ancient roots in the region.

          Yackums: You only make peace with your enemies – true, but only after handing them a crushing military defeat.

          In fact, many peace treaties have been forged short of “crushing military defeat.”

          The Palestinians have been in the region since antiquity.

          No. The Predecessors of the Arabs that call themselves “Palestinian” and claim land and live there now have genetics that show that they are partially descended from individuals who lived in the region in antiquity. To claim that they’ve BEEN THERE since antiquity based on mere genetics is both a logical fallacy and in many cases historically provably false.

          Guess who MOST of those individuals that they are descended from were: THE JEWS or subjects of the Israeli or Judea Kingdoms.

          Guess who part of REST of them were? Descendants of Ishmael (branching off as Arab descendants of Abraham into various tribes, including the Canaanites and Philistines), and of Esau (the Edomite Tribes who intermarried with Canaanite women).

          Guess who the REMAINING fraction were? ROMAN conquerors who arrived LONG after the founding of the Israeli and Judean Kingdoms rose, fell, were influenced by Persia and Babylon and eventually extinguished as a separate kingdom by the Romans.

          So, NO. Your statement is entirely BULLSHIT.

          Now as for your other foolishness:

          In fact, many peace treaties have been forged short of “crushing military defeat.”

          Again, WRONG. ALL treaties are forged under one of three circumstances:

          1.) AFTER a crushing military defeat.
          2.) In the face of inevitable crushing military defeat with an eye toward having SOME negotiating leverage in the final outcome, and the other party is willing to forego crushing you like an annoying insect.
          3.) When BOTH parties to the conflict recognize that the EXPENSE of the conflict (in whatever terms are important to that party) have become so high as to make peace settlement attractive.

          As a corollary to number 3, see my previous statement about not being able to negotiate with someone whose starting point is your death, because the COST of the conflict continuing is that they are willing to see it through THEIR OWN DEATH.

          [BEGIN SHOUTING} THERE ARE NO OTHER REASONS TO ENTER INTO A PEACE TREATY, BECAUSE MORE BENEFIT CAN BE GAINED THROUGH CONTINUING TO PROSECUTE THE CONFLICT THAN BY MAKING A PEACE TREATY. THE ONGOING CONFLICT IS USED AS LEVERAGE. [END SHOUTING]

          Having been a certificated Mediation specialist for 22 years (since before I was graduated from High-School, by the way), and been licensed as an Attorney for coming up on 5 years in Texas, I can guarantee you from personal experience that these are the ONLY three reasons why people make peace.

          See my other reply to your foolishness on claiming I want genocide for more extended discussion, but in short here: The Palestinians are willing AND ATTEMPTING to commit genocide (see constant barrage or rocket attacks and terrorist bombings). The Israelis need to be fighting by the same rules that the Arabs are bringing to the conflict. As long as the Israelis are going to fight “Queenbery Rules” with one hand tied behind their back while the Palestinians are fighting with NO RULES AT ALL, there will be a disparity, and the Arabs will think they have the upper hand because they will be inflicting “more damage.”

          Chuck Skinner: 3.) When BOTH parties to the conflict recognize that the EXPENSE of the conflict (in whatever terms are important to that party) have become so high as to make peace settlement attractive.

          That, of course, is a counterexample to your previous claim that peace treaties only occur after a “crushing military defeat.”

          Chuck Skinner: To claim that they’ve BEEN THERE since antiquity based on mere genetics is both a logical fallacy and in many cases historically provably false.

          Genetics of the y-chromosome support that Palestinians and Jews have deep patrilineal roots in the region.
          http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/epiphenom/files/2009/01/Hammer_2000_Jew_Arab_Ychromosome.png

          See Hammer et al., Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 2000.

          Ok, let me try to explain why your genetic mapping bullshit is a bad argument with a personal example. Maybe you’ll finally get it (but I doubt it, because you’re a LEFTIST TROLL):

          If I move to Germany, go out in a field, set up a tent, and demand that I be given the land that I go and squat on, do I have a “right” to that land (absent other law on adverse possession)?

          My genetics likely show that I have a 90+% affinity with Germanic tribes from the region in antiquity.

          Does that “prove” that my ansestors owned that land, and that it was “stolen” from me as my rightful inheritance?

          The answer is “NO,” by the way. I have no more claim to a piece of farmland in Germany than the Squatter Arabs do in the West Bank, most of which can be PROVABLY shown to have arrived POST 1949 into the Trans-Jordan area.

        but a one-state solution is not viable for Israel.

        Sure it is. It just requires the Israelis to be willing to fight on the same level that the Arabs are (genocide). Make the neighboring nations take in the Arabs that were displaced rather than keeping them in “refugee” camps (Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE , Syria and Lebanon.

        The Israelis have their nation, and the Arabs have their surrounding nations.

        The Israelis need to take a page from Putin’s playbook on Crimea, fully Annex the West Bank, and then DARE the neighboring countries to come and take it.

          Chuck Skinner: It just requires the Israelis to be willing to fight on the same level that the Arabs are (genocide).

          So your solution is the genocide of the Palestinian people. Now we understand your objection to the U.N. resolution.

          When you’re done misrepresenting my positions, come back and have a conversation with the adults you Progressive TROLL.

          See my responses to your other foolish assertions as to why you’re not worthy of being taken seriously.

          Also, do you dispute that the Arabs are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews of Israel?

          YES or NO, please. It will be VERY telling what your response is.

          Before you answer, read VERY closely my response above regarding the tactics that the Arabs are bringing to the conflict.

          Chuck Skinner: do you dispute that the Arabs are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews of Israel?

          Certainly some Arabs advocate for genocide, just like some Chuck Skinners advocate for genocide.

          You didn’t answer my question, you LEFTIST TROLL.

          YES or NO.

          I’m not advocating for genocide. I’m advocating for a level conflict between the parties.

          I mentioned that a 100% weapons-free Palestinian State would be what I would suggest as to ensure Israeli security, and you mocked it.

          Guess what? If there are NO WEAPONS to fight the Israelis, then there is NO NEED for the Israelis to fight BACK.

The obama leaves Israel out in the cold.
Minor correction.

Chuck Skinner: These are not “criminal acts.” They are acts of terrorism by non-uniformed militia, or worse, directed civilians without controls, against a separate sovereign nation-state, while using the remaining local populace as human shields.

Terrorism is a criminal act.

Chuck Skinner: Does that “prove” that my ansestors owned that land, and that it was “stolen” from me as my rightful inheritance?

Though the vast majority of Israeli Jews are immigrants or the children of immigrants, they nonetheless have ancient roots in the region. Those deep roots form the basis of their claim to the land. So, in effect, you are arguing that Palestinians that can trace their direct ancestry back many generations have a stronger claim.

In fact, both Jews and Palestinians have deep roots in the region, though Palestinians have a greater occupancy in more recent history, most of the Jews having been scattered by the Diaspora.

Chuck Skinner: I’m not advocating for genocide.

Chuck Skinner: It just requires the Israelis to be willing to fight on the same level that the Arabs are (genocide).

Chuck Skinner: YES or NO.

We did answer your question.

Chuck Skinner: do you dispute that the Arabs are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews of Israel?

Certainly some Arabs advocate for genocide, just like some Chuck Skinners advocate for genocide. On the other hand, most Arabs don’t even live in countries at war with Israel.

Chuck Skinner: I mentioned that a 100% weapons-free Palestinian State would be what I would suggest as to ensure Israeli security, and you mocked it.

If by “mocking”, you mean pointing out the problems with your position. That’s essentially the current dysfunctional situation. Such a one-state solution is inherently unstable.


    Chuck Skinner: YES or NO.

    We did answer your question.

    Chuck Skinner: do you dispute that the Arabs are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews of Israel?

    Certainly some Arabs advocate for genocide, just like some Chuck Skinners advocate for genocide. On the other hand, most Arabs don’t even live in countries at war with Israel.

    OK Smart Ass. The context of the question was in regard to the Palestinian Arabs, which apparently was OBVIOUS to every but you. But, since you want to play word-games, let me be more specific:

    A specific question for Zachriel:

    Do you dispute that the Arab governments HAMAS, which is the elected governing body of the Gaza Strip, and FATAH, the elected governing body of the West Bank, collectively the governments of the area that call themselves Palestinian territories, are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews and non-Arab citizens of Israel, through both the respective acts of their “uniformed” militaries (Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades as well as others) and through acts indoctrinating and radicalizing civilians through public pronouncements and children’s education to hate and kill Israeli Jews as oppressors?

    Chuck Skinner: I mentioned that a 100% weapons-free Palestinian State would be what I would suggest as to ensure Israeli security, and you mocked it.

    If by “mocking”, you mean pointing out the problems with your position. That’s essentially the current dysfunctional situation. Such a one-state solution is inherently unstable.

    EXPLAIN to me WHY a 100% weapons free PALESTINIAN state would have ANYTHING to do with Israel?

    Exactly HOW is a 100% fully self-actualized, independent Palestinian state, within its own borders a “one-state” solution or in way way inherently unstable, simply because it’s OWN GOVERNMENT agrees that it’s citizens will not have weapons to wage war against Israel?

    Unless you mean that the Palestinian government can’t or won’t enforce a 100% weapons ban, because they have so much hate against Israel that they will never enforce any sort of weapons ban in their own populations as part of an agreement that grants them their own, independent state, and that those governments are simply biding their time in getting an independent state to build up their own military in an attempt to thereafter militarily conquer Israel.

    The only alternative to weapons-free Palestinian statehood as I see is is for the first occurrence of an attack from a “Palestinian” state into Israel is to be seen as an act of war against Israel, the war starts in earnest, Israel conquers the newly formed “Palestinian” state and annexes it, gives the middle finger to the UN and says “this is ours now. Never speak of it again.”

    Unless you have a better idea? We’re ALL ears here.

You forgot the next sentence, which gives it context. But I expected you to do so. Here. Let me quote it properly FOR YOU, you LEFTIST TROLL.

I’m not advocating for genocide. I’m advocating for a level conflict between the parties.

But, let me make it more clear:

HERE IS WHAT I AM ADVOCATING: The Israelis be willing to fight and use each and every tactic against the Arab Squatters who call themselves “Palestinians” that those terrorists and murders use against Israel. If the “Palestinians” are bringing Genocide to the table first (which they ARE and HAVE), then the Israelis have to be ready, and should be ready, willing and able to bring Genocidal levels of force, and have a credible threat to USE that force.

If the “Palestinians” then do not surrender in the face of said prepared level of force and make TRUE peace, then yes, the Israelis should then use genocidal force in the face of continued “Palestinian” genocidal acts of aggression of at least equal or superior Israeli genocidal levels of force to wipe the Palestinian people from the earth for their stupidity in refusing to make peace on reasonable terms and for refusing to confine Palestinian genocidal acts to military or governmental targets. I think that pretty well would fit the definition of social Darwinism, except here the description would be “extinction of the stupid.”

If you want to call that me advocating for Genocide, be my guest. My guess is that everyone else here will simply think of you what I do: that you’re a MORON LEFTIST TROLL.

Note: Palestinians have no historical basis in law or fact as a separate cultural or ethnic entity group from the other Arabs that live in the area which was Ottoman Southern Syria prior to the end of World War I, and that area only became Mandatory Palestine under the 1923 British Mandate for Palestine by the League of Nations.

Terrorism is a criminal act.

Unless it’s supported, encouraged or aided by a military division of a government against a separate nation-state, which then makes it an act of war.

Do you dispute that HAMAS is acting as an autonomous governing body of the Gaza Strip and FATAH as the autonomous governing body of the West Bank? If not, do you dispute that their respective military wings, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades are committing terrorist acts each and every time a rocket is fired into Israel?

Finally, does the culmination of thousands upon thousands of completed and attempted terrorist acts every year against Israeli Jews fall within the description of Genocidal force as being brought to bear by “Palestinian” Arabs against Israeli citizens?

Chuck Skinner: Do you dispute that the Arab governments HAMAS, which is the elected governing body of the Gaza Strip, and FATAH, the elected governing body of the West Bank, collectively the governments of the area that call themselves Palestinian territories, are attempting to engage in genocide against Jews and non-Arab citizens of Israel

Both groups are in a state of war with Israel, which does involve killing Jews. The Hamas Covenant is explicitly anti-Semitic. Fatah’s Charter doesn’t mention Israel or Jews, but they are obviously in conflict with Israel. Leaders of both groups have said they would accept Israel within its 1967 borders, though some in Hamas do not accept the existence of Israel whatsoever.

Chuck Skinner: EXPLAIN to me WHY a 100% weapons free PALESTINIAN state would have ANYTHING to do with Israel?

Someone has to provide military security. Did you think Israel would or should relinquish their military control without comprehensive peace AND security?

Chuck Skinner: Exactly HOW is a 100% fully self-actualized, independent Palestinian state, within its own borders a “one-state” solution

That’s the two-state solution.

Chuck Skinner: the war starts in earnest, Israel conquers the newly formed “Palestinian” state and annexes it

That’s the one-state solution. The problem is that either the Palestinians have no representation in the government, or Israel ceases to be a majority Jewish state.

Chuck Skinner: If the “Palestinians” are bringing Genocide to the table first (which they ARE and HAVE), then the Israelis have to be ready, and should be ready, willing and able to bring Genocidal levels of force, and have a credible threat to USE that force.

That’s what we thought you said. You are advocating the threat of genocide, and the actual use of genocide if the enemy doesn’t surrender.

Chuck Skinner: the Israelis should then use genocidal force in the face of continued “Palestinian” genocidal acts of aggression of at least equal or superior Israeli genocidal levels of force to wipe the Palestinian people from the earth

We got it the first time.

Chuck Skinner: Palestinians have no historical basis in law or fact as a separate cultural or ethnic entity group

As already pointed out, Palestinians are a genetically distinguishable patrilineal ethnic group more closely related to Jews than to other Arabs. See Hammer et al., Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 2000.

Chuck Skinner: Unless it’s supported, encouraged or aided by a military division of a government against a separate nation-state, which then makes it an act of war.

Acts of war can be criminal acts. See Nuremberg Trials, 1946. Terrorism is also a criminal act.

Chuck Skinner: do you dispute that their respective military wings, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades are committing terrorist acts each and every time a rocket is fired into Israel?

As they are being directed at civilians, they are terrorist in nature, and have been condemned by the United Nations and the European Union, among others.

By the way, UNSC Resolution 2334 condemns “all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement and destruction”.

Chuck Skinner: Finally, does the culmination of thousands upon thousands of completed and attempted terrorist acts every year against Israeli Jews fall within the description of Genocidal force as being brought to bear by “Palestinian” Arabs against Israeli citizens?

No. However, it suggests that the perpetrators may not be constrained if given such power. There are many Palestinians who would approve of genocide, just as there are many Chuck Skinners who approve of genocide. Let’s hope they can never realize their vision.

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