UPDATED: Brown Was a Robbery Suspect, Cop Identified in #Ferguson
Will recent revelations put an end to the street violence in Ferguson?
Almost a week later, it looks we finally know what happened in Ferguson, Missouri last Saturday. At a press conference this morning, police identified the Darren Wilson as the officer who fatally shot unarmed teen, Michael Brown:
What police revealed today is different from the account given by Dorin Johnson who claimed he was present at the time Brown was shot. Johnson indicated he and Brown were minding their own business when Officer Wilson rolled up and began to harass them.
Officer Wilson has no disciplinary record in the six years he’s been on the force.
According to St. Louis police, Brown and Johnson were suspects in a convenience store robbery that happened moments before Officer Wilson encountered the two. NBC News reports:
The chief described what happened minutes before the shooting as a “strongarm robbery” at the convenience store. The police report said that Brown was there with another man, Dorian Johnson. Police also released pictures taken from surveillance video that appeared to show a confrontation.
A 911 call about the robbery came in at 11:51 a.m., according to the police chief. A minute later, dispatchers gave a description of the suspect. The officer encountered Brown at 12:01 p.m. Three minutes later, the shooting was over, and a second officer was on the scene, he said.
Police have said that an officer encountered Brown and another man on the street. They have said that one of the men pushed the officer into his patrol car and that there was a struggle over the officer’s gun. They have said that Brown ran and the officer fired multiple times.
Johnson, however, told MSNBC that the officer ordered him and Brown off the sidewalk. He said that the officer tried to thrust his car door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. He said the officer then grabbed Brown by the neck, pointed the gun at him and said, “I’ll shoot.”
Johnson also said that the officer fired shots after Brown turned with his hands up and said, “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”
Johnson’s lawyer confirmed to MSNBC on Friday that Brown had taken the cigars from the store.
Video was released from the convenience store security footage showing Brown and Johnson stealing and roughing up the store clerk:
Update: From PBS:
In a press conference Friday afternoon, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Darren Wilson — the officer being investigated in the shooting of Michael Brown — did not know Brown was a robbery suspect. Surveillance footage of that robbery was released Friday morning.
And we’re back to square one.
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Comments
“You might need a militarized police force!” Carnac the Magnificent! Thank you!
I am more concerned when a platoon of ISIS soldiers infiltrates across the border and shows up with AKs and RPG’s in downtown San Diego.
Thankfully, George Zimmerman is not involved.
You could have fooled me! I see his name in many of the articles about Michael Brown’s death!
Well, I’ll be …
You can put a nice, new grey shirt and tie on Dorin. You can hide his tats. You can make him smell purdy. You can put him and his lawyer in front of a camera … and get the libturds in a frenzy.
But you can’t take the banger of out the ghetto-banger. C’mon you troll idiots … go ahead and down arrow this … again. ROFLMBO.
You will have some cowards taking you up on that.
But trolls, liars, and fringe people tend to be cowards.
I’m looking at YOU Ukulele hacker.
good response rags… and the rest of us will use the up arrow to counter the three idiots who used the down arrow 🙂
“It took so long for them to do that because they Photoshopped him.”
Saints preserve us.
Also his friend has tats.
….Therefore he deserves to be shot and killed in the street.
And your support for that bullshit is….????
ROTFL! Honey, the thug assaulted the owner of the convenience store and stole merchandise, turning a simple shoplifting incident into a felony. Then he allegedly attacked the cop who stopped him in the street, turning this into two felonies involving violence. If the attack on the cop is true, I’m not at all surprised Mr Thug ended up dead.
You know, at first I just wanted you to go away but now I see the value in having you inject your ignorance to this blog. It makes the rest of us look pretty smart!
Freakin’ geniuses…
He is fun, innit he…??? Kinda like a speed bag.
Where were you for this ShortBus?
Do you even know that victim’s name?
It is a travesty that we know the name of Trayvon and Michael, but Jordan not so much. The race hustlers are charlatons and that they make a big deal out of thugs says everything anyone needs to know about them.
The race whores keep ending up with egg on their faces, though: Crystal magnum, Trademark, and now “little” Mikey.
Hmmm….when will we start seeing Mikey’s fat, ugly mug replaced with a photo of him when he was an adorable, angelic, wee lad of about four years in age (before he started smoking)? Ben Crump may be thumbing through the family photo album for one right now!
Mikey was twice the size of the store clerk. He must have tipped the scales at about 275. He was a just a big, fat, th-ugly bully when you get down to it.
I’m sure his family, already lawyered up with Ben Crump, loved him very much. *SIGH* *SAD* But since every cloud must have a silver lining, we should look for one here. Perhaps here it is nothing more than another felon is off the streets.
Oops, should be “Mangum”, formerly known on the streets as “Precious.” She’s also known by the NC Dept. of Public Safety’s penal institution system as Offender #0801264. She murdered some poor dude dumb enough to get hooked up with her. By all accounts, he was a real nice guy.
Jesse Jackson was a big supporter of hers; said he’d pay for her college tuition. That didn’t work out, though.
I think Jackson and the rest of the race goons thought they had a “live” one (in the figurative sense) with Michael, but it looks like this one’s going to turn sour on them, too, like Trademark and Precious.
But let’s see how much lipstick Crump can still put on this pig of a cause. He needs to get a move on, though, because the deceased is already starting to lose some of the media support. The video of Mikey tossing the store clerk is toxic. Gosh, I wonder if Dorin Johnson lied to his attorney and Crump the way he lied to the media. It’s no wonder his attorney and Crump wouldn’t let him talk to the cops, just spew scat to the media to stir the pot. What a dumbass, but I wonder if he’s even figured out how he’s being used. Maybe he thinks there’s a payday in it for him.
You mean the reports of him buying skittles and ice tea at the convenience store and helping that poor man by lightening his load (wallet) are not true!
Ring, ring. Hello, this is Al Sharpton. Race baiting opportunity on isle 6.
ooooooorrrrrrr….
Another confirmed thug gets his comeuppance.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
“Strong Arm Robbery?” Isn’t that what MSNBC does?
I don’t know the physical size of Officer Wilson but that night he stopped Brown, a 6’4”, 292 # guy who had just committed retail theft and assault and battery along with Brown’s accomplice Johnson.
One could conceive of Brown, who stole the cigars using his threatening demeanor and physical strength, as reaching for Officer Wilson’s gun in the same overpowering way.
BTW: Did Al Sharpton get any comment from Brown’s father or was he content enough with the Swisher Sweet cigars.
According to an article I read, Darren Wilson is white, age 28, and, as described by his neighbor, “thin.”
Other reports said Wilson was treated for injuries to his face after the shooting, presumably caused by Brown when he assaulted Wilson and tried to get his gun. It appears that Brown may have thought he could use his huge size to manhandle Darren Wilson in the same way he had manhandled the little store clerk.
Apparently there’s just been another presser that has a lot of people shaking their heads.
I need a glass of nice strong sweet tea to go with this popcorn. Can I get y’all anything while I’m up?
Cuppa tea, plain, please.
This just gets stranger.
One thing I do know – no cop would try to grab someone that size by the neck. It would not happen.
Cut the fake Southerner act. If you were a real Southerne you would be getting a sweet peach iced tea.
“Iced tea”? Nobody I know calls it “iced tea.” It’s just tea. Sweet tea.
Although for Yankees…
amy, i’m from michigan and it has been iced tea for at least 72 yrs. i never heard sweet tea until they started bottling it. btw, my father and his parents come from “nasvull”, so maybe it’s a cracker thang.
We moved to East TN 2+ years ago from CA, where I had lived all my nearly 57 years. We kind of have that Green Acres thing happening at our place. I still have to ask some of these people to please repeat themselves, as does my husband. The double negatives can be challenging as well as pronunciations, and I often can’t keep track of who did or didn’t do what by the time a southern woman (who never stops talking) finishes a story, bless her heart. 🙂
Southern men, with the exception of lawyers, are men of few and often no words. It’s like prying teeth to find out anything from them.
FYI, it’s not “sweet tea”; it’s “swate tay”. “Nashvul” is almost correct, but you have to completely swallow the ‘ville’, so it’s actually “Nashvl”. Just pretend that a second syllable is just an abbreviation and you’ll catch on.
I have a Jack Russell Terrier, as you might have guessed. She’s a broken coat, meaning smooth on the sides but rough on the muzzle and across the back. One of my neighbors looked at her and informed me, with surprise, “Why, that’s a werher.” “Pardon me, a what?”, I asked. “A werher. That’s a werher.” I finally realized he wasn’t speaking of a creature resembling a miniature warthog that might be found on the African plains instead of Podunkvl, TN, and was actually saying “wire-haired”.
Southerners are real nice people, very polite compared to people in other regions, but they will annihilate their vowels like who laid the rail.
Amy: The problem is, the guy who’d just robbed the store DID know, and may have acted accordingly against a police officer who didn’t suspect this was going to escalate into a life and death situation.
It remains to be seen if the officer kept reacting beyond when he was legally justified in doing so of course. We don’t know yet.
That’s what I have been wondering about: if Mr. Brown assaulted a shop keeper and stole merchandise, and a few minutes later encounters a police officer in the street, he’s going to react. He’d have to be one very cool cat to walk down the street like nothing is wrong. If the police officer were to call out — even “get out of the middle of the street you idiot” or words to that effect — Mr. Brown might well think that the jig is up. In that case, he might think he could beat the officer to said officer’s pistol.
All of that is conjecture, but that’s what I’ve been thinking since I read that a) Brown assaulted the shop keeper and b) the officer didn’t know Brown had done it.
The LEO did not know the Brown and Johnson were suspects in a felony when he first encountered them. However it is being reported that the LEO learned about the felony and received a description of the suspects. The LEO observed what appeared to be the stolen merchandise in the possession of Brown. The LEO understood the the 2 j-walkers were likely the suspects. He then turn his vehicle around and had a second encounter in which both Brown and Johnson attacked him and both tried to steal his firearm.
Don’t be surprised if Michael Brown’s toxicology report in quite meaningful to your understand on Brown’s behavior.
Did Ferguson PD ever take Johnson into custody? They should have, shooting or no shooting.
OK counselors, help me out here…. Johnson admitted on TV to being involved in the felony robbery which resulted in a homicide. Doesn’t that open him up to a murder charge?
https://legalinsurrection.com/2014/08/brown-was-a-robbery-suspect-cop-identified-in-ferguson/comment-page-1/#comment-535061
A couple of things to keep straight: Just because the dispatcher broadcast the event of the S/A robbery does not necessarily mean that the officer heard that broadcast; it would not be the first time such a disconnect has occurred.
That leads into another comment that points out that Mr. Brown knows what he did. When he sees the police showing an interest in him he has no reason to think it is merely for a pedestrian violation. He is now prepared to not go down for the robbery. The officer, if he does not have the information about the robbery is at a serious disadvantage… Mr. Brown has already decided to use force to avoid arrest, the officer does not even know there is anyone who needs arresting yet.
And while I have you, if you have read Andrew’s book you will know that serious physical disadvantage,even when no weapon is apparent, can lead one to believe that grave bodily injury is likely to follow. Disadvantage in numbers and/or size is noted in the discussion of this. Mr. Brown’s size would certainly make any normal sized person, police or not, feel disadvantaged in a fight.
The “gentle giant” concept of a few days ago appears to have gone away…
Does MO law provide a felony murder rule? If so Mr. Johnson could find himself in the dock for the death of his co-D.
We still don’t know what happened in this incident, or if the shooting of Mr. Brown was legally justified, or in compliance with the PD’s use of force doctrine.
As before, this is ONLY going to come via a PROCESS of investigation and DUE PROCESS.
Which will leave SOME of us (who have an issue with ANY authority) dissatisfied. Because they didn’t get it when they demanded it. And they won’t, either.
Time is part of the equation. Suck it.
I was raised to think of the cops as enemies, always wrong, then learned better.
But there’s still that Grand Jury tape I listened to back when I had charges brought against me for growing weed. Oh, I was guilty and the police had me dead to rights, but one of them lied before the GJ, for no reason I could tell, and you could hear his voice change to “I’m telling a lie here”.
And there are several incidents involving police misbehavior I’ve seen. So, I’m half way between cynical and skeptical whenever something happens.
Oh, and just because one force is as dirty as the Mafia does not mean another force cannot be squeaky clean. Their only link is that they are cops.
Sure, Phillep. I’ve seen cops lie under oath on the witness stand, dead bang.
They are not anything BUT human beings, with all the usual foibles and flaws.
I don’t default either way, though I DO wonder how we find people to do that job, and I have unbounded admiration for good cops, and I’ve known quite a few.
One thing I learned as a seventeen-year-old that has been reinforced many times over the years…
cops are typically scared. In a lot of places, they have every right to be scared. Several of the LEOs I’ve known had to retire early because they were just broken down physically. In a typical week, they would be in several physical altercations. Most of them never fired their piece on duty.
I had a friend in Army WOFT who was a CHiP officer who had been in a running gun battle from just south of LA to just above the border with Mexico with a carload of illegal invaders. The bad guys did everything they could do to kill their pursuers. They ran out of ammo, and gave up.
Personally, I have always wondered if I could have overcome the “red tide” and not just shoot them to ribbons. Hopefully, that will never be tested.
It seems a lot of people believe cops can take down a violent person resisting arrest using some Jedi mind tricks and no harm to anyone. In reality, cops get their asses kicked all the time and a thug resisting arrest can do a lot of damage before they’re subdued. No where in their job description does it say they have to accept a beatdown rather than defend themselves.
Rags,
Being a cop certainly is a tough job. From time to time the wrong personality type slips through the screening process, but most of them are far from trigger happy brutes. Like you, I don’t know if I could show the required restraint. I’ve seen a patrol cop who was calm when taking down the incident report shake with rage once away from the scene of a domestic abuse case. She really wanted to beat the adults to a pulp because both the perp and the girlfriend of the perp/mother of the victims had been lying their butts off.
I always found it interesting that the prayer to the patron saint of both soldiers and policeman, St. Michael the Archangel, asks that he protect one not from physical harm but rather that he protect their souls from going over to the dark side. St. Michael’s intercession is sought by the soldier against the snares of a devil who revels in wartime atrocities and by the cop against those evil spirits who take delight in incidents of undue force because such incidents can be used to foment ever more evil.
You could not pay me enough to have to marinate every day in the evil men do…women, too.
Just like the reason I would never be a prosecutor. I’ve known too many who were tyrants, and I doubt my own capacity to resist the forces that augured to make them that way.
I always admire good people in any office in our society, and try to show it and thank them. There really are “public servants” among us, and we can’t forget that amidst all the totally correct criticisms we have of those who are not.
Just a few stats for you: Deaths, Assaults, & Injuries for Law Enforcement Personnel
Averages over the Last Decade
154 deaths per year 57,892 assaults per year 15,483 injuries per year
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/daifacts.html
Still not handling it too well at the PD.
The story they need to tell is why Officer Wilson shot Brown. They don’t need any proof, they don’t need any evidence, they don’t need any testimony. Not yet. But they do need the story, and have needed it for five days now.
This story isn’t it. Suspects in unarmed robberies aren’t routinely shot even in St Louis.
This doesn’t sound like police work, it sounds like the good ol’ tactic popularly known as “getting some —- on his shoes.”
“Suspects in unarmed robberies aren’t routinely shot…”
Yeah. They are, too. When they are stupid enough to play “hot potato” with a LEO’s piece, they very regularly wind up shot.
When you open the Tom Swift Crisis Management Consultancy, let me know.
I have a lot of people who will need to be warned.
I’m with you. Speaking as an ex cop, just cause someone isn’t armed doesn’t mean they can’t bring lethal force to bear. I would have been very leery of a guy like Brown. Guys like him can knock someone out or kill them with one punch. There was a case in my sector where a cop was getting punched repeatedly in the head. He shot just before he passed out. Good shoot.
LEOs carry a LOT of stuff that can be VERY quickly turned on them. Think about it, folks. And even non-lethal stuff that disables a good guy is a pathway to DEAD.
Every cop is taught that there is always at least one gun at every call they go on. Theirs. Weapon retention is a big issue in the training business. This is why the absolute minimum stopping ability of soft body armor is the caliber of the sidearm carried by the officers; that is, as often as not, the bullet it will have to stop.
Best $100 I had spent to date was when I bought that Second Chance, if only for the good night’s sleep Mrs Wrangler#1 began getting. And $100 was real money back then, almost half a house payment.
aah tom not so swift. it’s clear in the video and pics that he assaulted the owner, ergo a strong armed robbery, a felony. reportedly the leo had a swollen face that had to be treated at the hospital, ergo a second assault within 10 mins. duh, good riddance!
I won’t down-arrow your comment but I disagree.
Public relations by a police department in the midst of investigating a crime is a very risky thing. Even though one wants to get “our side of the story” out there, to do so in a way that later is not backed up with solid evidence could cause real trouble. It might prevent an accused person from getting a fair trial, for example, and that’s always a tragedy.
Anything, anything the police say today will be scrutinized in very fine detail. They simply can’t say anything about their “side of the story” until they know that it is 100 percent solid. Anything else is irresponsible.
I’ve had a larger guy try to take my 45, only reason partner didn’t shoot was due to kids in room and I said not to.
we broke 2 6 cell maglites over his skull instead.
if there were no kids there we would have shot him after he released grip as he was going for knife.
we don’t know what happened at the vehicle yet because we do not have the info.
but please feel free to post stupid crap as it allows us to laugh at you.
The main conclusion from this news is being kind of buried: it’s not that Brown was a thug, but that Johnson’s so-called “eyewitness account” is completely worthless, and any position anyone has arrived at based on what he said needs to be withdrawn and rethought. Johnson’s account needs to be ignored as if it never existed; and without it, would anyone be claiming that Brown had his hands in the air?
Maybe I missed it, but what’s the conflict between Johnson’s statement and this report?
When you just jacked a convenience store and you’re walking down the middle of the street carrying stolen property, you are not “minding your own business.” No way, no how. Doesn’t matter if the cop knew about the robbery (yet) or not.
Maybe the robbery circumstantially supports the official story, but that doesn’t conflict with any of the statements Johnson made about how the encounter went down (minding his own business being a subjective assessment).
It’s no wonder you’re broke.
I didn’t see Johnson’s initial reports about the incident, but did he include the part about how Brown apparently attacked the cop inside his vehicle, struck him in the face, and tried to take his gun from him?
You guys vote me down for asking a question? I didn’t say the cop was wrong, I asked what was the difference in the stories? You guys are as bad as the race-baiters, filling in the missing information with your own personal prejudices.
Before we completely discount Johnson, we need to have the results of the PROCESS, which will include physical evidence and the officer’s own account.
A very bad guy can tell SOME truth, and a very BAD guy who did very bad things may not be justifiably killed.
Time will tell…
Don’t forget toxicology.
I kind lump ALL physical evidence into…you know…physical evidence.
If you want to differentiate between physics and chemistry and biology and physiology…well, you get me writing too much, dammit…!!!
Sorry I was in a hurry and just said toxicology. I really wanted to say toxicology for two reasons: the first is that toxicology coiuld show that Brown had diminished inhibitions, which could make him fight harder.
The second is that if Brown was intoxicated, a question comes up which any investigator should ask. How can Brown be intoxicated and Dorian not be? If Dorian was intoxicated how could he accurately describe what happened?
So you want to tox screen person 1, the victim, so that the State can apply the findings to person 2, a defense witness, in order to impeach his testimony? Even Nifong wouldn’t have thought up something that bizarre.
You are a ridiculous person.
Well, Miss Sanctimony…not so much…
Watch…
DA: Mr. Dorian, you are aware of the ME testimony that Mr. Brown was basically a walking bag of Angel Dust, correct?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says)
DA: And it has been your testimony you were with Mr. Brown since the previous evening, correct?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says)
DA: And you want the jury to believe you were not using drugs, is that true?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says)
DA: And during the hours and days following Mr. Brown’s demise, you did not have a drug test of any kind did you?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says)
DA: In fact, your lawyer kept you away from any contact with the police authorities, isn’t that true?
OBJECT: THAT’s CONFIDENTIAL.
DA: Not really, but I’ll withdraw that question. When did you have a drug test last?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says, because I’ll pick him to death.)
DA: Now we know from your trial and conviction that you were with Mr. Brown then you robbed the store, true?
Dorian: (It doesn’t MATTER what he says)
DA: And, again, you were sober as the day you were born when Mr. Brown was shot, that’s what you want the jury to believe, right.
Dorian: Yah. ‘Cause that’s it TRUTH, man. That cop murdered my friend, and I saw the whole thing just like I see you.
DA: And you expect the jury to believe you, just like they are suppposed to believe you were sober…I mean, take you word for it?
I pass the witness, yo onah…
You’ve got Dorian charged, tried and convicted of a felony already? Spectacular work, counsellor! You might want to take that up with the chief, though…
(CNN) — Dorian Johnson, who was with Missouri teen Michael Brown when a police officer killed him, will not face charges in connection with the store robbery in which police say Brown was a suspect, police say. “We have determined he committed no crime,” Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Friday.
Doesn’t matter to the point being made one bit, does it, Miss Sanctimony? You can quibble and kvetch about the issue of the drugs in Mr. Brown, too.
You’re wrong. As I’ve shown, Mr. Dorian is very impeachable.
Uhhhh, Amy. You are pinning your conclusion on the sayings of a police chief who is definitely out of his depth, and has already contradicted himself at a press conference (maybe more than once, but I am at the mercy of the news media and the completeness of their reports is abysmal).
There appears to be video evidence that Mr Johnson participated with Mr Brown in the commission of a robbery, maybe also a burglary if it could be shown that they entered the store with the intent to steal… at least that is the law in CA, don’t know about MO. As a co-defendant he has legal culpability for the actions of others involved. Mr. Brown’s death may well be a product of that robbery making Mr Johnson a murderer. It is not the police chief’s job to make a determination as to that.
There is a fair number of get-away drivers (“Wheelmen, in trade parlance) doing long stretches based on their cohorts killing someone inside the liquor store, and even when the clerk has killed their associate.
There is a lot of ball yet to be played here.
The media had me convinced this was a good little kid on his way to college, not a huge strong arm robber.
Trayvon is the new standard for thug to innocent child conversions by the media I guess. I wonder what else will come out about this guy’s history. What will the toxicology report reveal?
The officer was not aware of the strong arm robbery? First I heard of that, but Brown was certainly aware, which would have made him look/act suspicious, and perhaps prompted the confrontation, where a shot was fired in the car.
Exactly, Rhino! The kid knew what he did and a police car rolling up behind him while he’s walking down the street blocking traffic would make him believe the cop was onto him. And as the mother of a son who was trained by one of the best law enforcement agencies in the US (CHP), NO cop would grab a suspect by the throat and stick his gun in his face. It would not happen.
Unless you are a thug and creating a story out of whole cloth like what you have seen on TV.
Seen on TV? Maybe, but it sounded more like urban ghetto teachings to me.
Yup. Almost a ditto here. The thought that this could be true was distressing to me. Now we have… another thug. Aggressive and lacking judgment because on drugs? Or just aggressive and lacking judgment?
This is going to be involved so let me touch some points.
First
People have said that Dorian Johnson should be tried for felony murder. I disagree.
The way I would describe the events, is a series of incidents which led to a death in a very unforeseeable way. Felony murder is for things like a guy going with a friend to rob a gas station, and he knows the guy has a gun.
Second
Browns behavior does not excuse the officer, if he shot him after he surrendered or if he pumped him with bullets while he was running away. BTW I do not think a cop would do that. It’s bad gun safety since the more shots fored the more likely a bystander would get shot.
Third
I think that if Wilson shot him in a control way, then he had justification to shoot him. He was a petty thief who assaulted a two people, one a cop. It is perfectly reasonable to assume he was a danger to the community.
Forth Even if as Dorian says Brown shouted “I don’t have a gun.”, it could have been misheard as “I have a gun.”
Fifth Chief metermaid/police wannabe fit to be tied.
The SWAT/riot teams handling of the protests was by-the-book, but very heavy-handed. The seem to be run by someone like James Sikking’s character in Hill Street Blues.
That being said I liked the police wannabe/chief metermaid handling to the point where he is trying to calm the waters. I disliked it when he threw the SWAT under the bus and especially the shooter who he treated like he was guilty.
Chief metermaid was fit to be tied when Jackson released the name and the police report together. Nice to see he got one over on Chief metermaid. High five. No fist bump that’s not the way I do things.
Sixth DOJ go away. The only reason to even show up is if there was racism involved on the part of the shooter. But there is no indications of civil rights violation here. There is no indication that the shooter fired because Brown was black. This is strictly a local matter.
The FBI should stay however as they often help with criminal investigations. especially in this day and age.
Why in the hell would you give any credence to anything Dorin Johnson has to say? For pete’s sake, even though he’s not being charged at this point, he was part of the criminal act that brought this entire event into play. He has everything to gain and nothing to lose by lying. He’s also being handled by a gaggle of the worst race whore$ in this country.
Shake yourself.
We don’t even know the race of the police officer, do we?
Tiffany and Dorian both say he’s white.
Is it possible that when the officer first told them to get out of the street and drove away (per Johnson’s interview), He didn’t know about the robbery. Remember he was on a call! As he drove away, the call for a strong arm robbery comes out, matching the description of the two he just encountered. He backs up and attempts to make contact with the individuals. Who he assumes are not armed because no weapon was displayed or used. But of course Johnson and Brown both know what was about to go down and decided to assault the officer before he can arrest them. Mmmmmmm…works for me!
(Sorry, hit thumbs down when I attempted to reply.) So where is the Chief getting his info about about what the officer “knew” at the time of the “initial contact”. And, as you point out, did he “know” anything more by the time of his second contact?
Since there’s no confirmation of psychic powers among the general human population, I imagine the chief is going by what the dispatcher did or didn’t tell the patrol officer.
Most all of us are forgetting that police officers get a lot of their information via their computer in their car.
That will be interesting to see, especially as to time.
Doesn’t work for me, seeing as the FOI’d log sheet indicates “STILL SEE NO ONE MATCHING THAT DISCRIPTION (sic)” as of almost 7 o’clock that evening.
See page 12: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/Ferguson.pdf
You do realize that continuing to look for other potential suspects is a method of eliminating all but the guy you already have or strongly suspect. You do realize that if there is a trial and other inquiries and observations about other potentials are NOT followed up on, that will come back to haunt the prosecutor big time. He will be accused of setting his sight on the deceased or being fixated on his for some reason, so this has to ne done.
A third-hand account from Darren Wilson’s version of how it all went down: http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/
That makes most sense to me.
Crump/Jackson/Sharpton make the environment so toxic for cops, that stupid young kids/thugs think they are untouchable. The “watcha gonna do, shoot me (you white ass cracker)” mentality is the predictable outcome, as even Obama’s first reaction is “the cop acted stupidly”.
Darin Johnson knows the truth. And maybe the guy that tweeted it live, saying Brown was running … running which way? DJ is not charged yet, but he probably told the truth to the cops and to his lawyer. iirc, the first narrative from Brown team was that Brown was running away and was shot while fleeing … in the back then.
But I’m guessing on realization he was actually charging the cop, they (with no regard for truth or real justice, just “predetermined, racist social justice”) changed the narrative to, “Brown was surrendering with his hands up”, some even saying on his knees. And the protesters strut with hands up “don’t shoot me cuz I’m black”.
So forensics will show he was shot from the front, not sure they can show if he was running. And fingerprints on the car will show Brown was where he never should have been.
If Brown is stupid (drugged?) enough to assault the officer at the car, it is not a great leap to think he would turn and charge him again when the officer says “freeze”.
I blame racist Obama, for making a national martyr out of thug Trayvon. Racist gangsters don’t believe in rule of law.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com
Thanks for the link.
That’s about what I figured went down, that or pretty close.
Jesse, Al and Ben are beating a dead hippo.
Mouse…close call on felony murder in Missouri…
Second degree murder, penalty.
565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he:
(1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or
(2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony.
2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter.
3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court.
Dunno… And I’m glad I was never tempted to be a prosecutor.
On your depiction of the MHP officer, I disagree. I think he’s done very well.
On your final point, the FBI investigates civil rights violations, which often have nothing to do with race. IF the FBI has an interest, the DOJ has an interest. Chick and hen.
Actually I think a prosecutor like Angela Correy or Carmen Ortiz would have try to convict him of felony murder, but a prosecutor using common sense would not. The underlying crime has to be a felony. The underlying crime was petty theft which is not a felony, though it did turn into a felony when Brown assaulted the clerk.
It’s really stretching the felony murder rule to say Dorian is guilty of it. If he is then there are a lot of other people whom you say are guilty of it also.
As for the chief metermaid, I agree he did calm things down very nicely, but he stepped way over bounds in doing so. He acted as though “He was one of them”. He implicitly suggested that they were right about Wilson by protesting with them. He implicitly suggested that the Ferguson police were wrong ( on the really big night it was not the Ferguson police, it was the ST Loius County Swat team ).
As for “one of them”, is he still one of them if they start looting and rioting? The relationship between a cop and a “civilian” is the same as the relationship between a boss and an employee.
In an old episode of Friends, and yes I know it is a piece of bad fiction–sometimes even bad fiction points out basic truths. Chandler hires Pheobe, and from her learn that they no longer consider him one of the old gang. He freaks out over this and Pheobe points out that he is now their boss and exerts power over them. He can no longer be their friend.
In the same sense the cop exerts power over “civilians”, he can have friendly relations ( no not those kinds of relations–get your head out of the gutter ), but he can’t be one of them.
>> Jackson said Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson were suspects in the robbery, but the officer wasn’t aware of that. The officer, Darren Wilson, knew there had been a robbery but did not know that Brown and Johnson might be suspects.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. If I’m lying I’m flying.
A. Officer was responding to a robbery call…
B. …encounters two yutes in the street…
C. …one of whom “resists gentle suasion”…
D. ……
E. …perhaps causing officer to realize, “wait a minute, sweet Maybelline, maybe this is the guy who…?
Hollywood, here I come.
There also could have been a broadcast description of the suspects, their clothing, etc.
Dunno.
As I say…PROCESS…
Huh, D was supposed to say “unknown/disputed actions occur here”…
and the source for the quote is http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/michael-brown-a-suspect-in-robbery-of-cigars-from-store/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html
My first reaction to this Dorin Johnson guy was:
“Why this cat need a lawyer and a new shirt and tie if he’s just a witness?”
Now I know why.
This story is rapidly becoming one of those appalling episodes where it is hard to sympathize with either side.
From “Lowering the Bar”
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/08/ferguson-cops.html
It’s almost a case of “…and let G-d sort them out.”
Waiting for the complete autopsy report that tells how many times Brown was shot, where on the body the wounds were and at what distance the shots were fired.
Can an autopsy determine if Mr. Brown was shot while his hands were raised?
Yes, sorta. “Determine” would be a strong word. But the position of different parts of the body is suggested by where the path of the bullet (in this case) passed through skin, muscle, etc. An expert can testify that, in their opinion, a person was in this or that attitude when shot.
Rags appears to know his/her shit. Listen folks.
This whole “raised hands” thing came from Dorin Johnson, Brown’s accomplice. He has every reason to lie and make things up out of whole cloth. He’s being handled by his attorney and Crump and has made no statements to the police. His statements have all been made to the media, exactly what we saw in the Zimmerman case with Rachel Jeantel. The cops were never able to interview her, either, but she spoke to the media and claims about her story were made to the media by Crump, attorney for one or more Martin family members. This is a repeat of that.
Dorin Johnson could just as easily have said a flying unicorn took the cigars and some of you people would be questioning what happened because you first want to hear what the flying unicorn has to say.
Well, HELL yeah…!!! I would LOVE to depose a flying unicorn.
I mean…who wouldn’t…???
But, as before…we have to wait before jumping to judgments, IMNHO.
In watching the video, I was impressed with how casually Brown pulled off the heist and assaulted the employee. Over some cigars! He didn’t even ask for cash. Almost as though this was a routine behavior. Ferguson is a town of 21000 souls. Fairly small. Brown was 6’4″ and 292 pounds. Big. I have to believe that Brown was likely known to the police and wonder whether he had a record. Since he was 18, though, much of any record might be juvenile and sealed.
Apparently the officer knew about the theft of the convenience store and saw Brown with the cigars after the initial stop for walking in the street.
Brown died in the commission of a felonious assault on a law enforcement officer, there are no unimpeachable witnesses to the contrary, and immediately following the recorded commission of a prior violent felony.
There will be no charges against this officer, but there should be against Brown’s co-felon.
After seeing the assault on the little old lady I’m glad he’s dead. Screw him.
And screw black racist violence against the Indian owners of the Quick Time.
Yeah, they have not been very clear, but that sounds right.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/michael-brown-a-suspect-in-robbery-of-cigars-from-store/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html
And earlier there was certainty that shot(s?) were fired in the car. The twitter account of the guy in the neighborhood said there were two shots, then five more, “he turned around” … and said Brown was running.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/15/eyewitness-allegedly-live-tweeted-michael-brown-shooting-i-just-saw-someone-die/
It would not be too surprising if Brown took the same approach to the cop as to the store worker, and assaulted him. I don’t see how else Brown ends up wrestling over the gun IN the car. Perhaps the officer tried to get out, and Brown pushed him back in and assaulted. But I see no way the officer invited brown to stick his head in the window … or that part of the story is in error.
Of course the Brown family (after lawyer coaching) said he was down on his knees with hands up. And the tape looks like Dorian put the cigars back on the counter before he walked out, after Brown had handed them to him. So it seems maybe he did not steal, but he was “with” Brown.
According to the police chief the officer didn’t know about the theft. Obviously, Brown did, having committed it ten minutes earlier. This could have influenced Brown’s response, emotional state, and so forth. And probably did.
Well according to information available at Gateway Pundit. Darin Johnson joined Micheal Brown in the attack on the LEO. Further Darin Johnson was the first perp to go for the LEO’s gun! Brown was the second. Can someone tell me why Darin Johnson has any creditability whatsoever?
At the first encounter the LEO was unaware of the prior felony. The LEO “pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them.”
So the LEO then knew that these two arrogant J-walkers were possible or likely felons when he pulled his squad car in front of them for the second encounter.
There is more and if the LEO’s story is reasonably accurate then this is case of self defense … or perhaps suicide-by-cop.
.
One wonders just what Darin Johnson thought he was going to do if and when he obtained possession of the LEO’s firearm?
Actually I believe that clerk was a man.
I have a couple question for the experts:
Is Benjamin Crump licensed to practice law in Missouri?
Does it matter if he is or not?
I just looked his name up in the website of the Missouri bar and I can’t find it.
http://www.courts.mo.gov/courts/clerkhandbooksp2rulesonly.nsf/c0c6ffa99df4993f86256ba50057dcb8/e0bcf992eb92f9ae86256db7007379ef
Yep. Under the provisions of that rule.
Thanks!!
I thought nobody was going to answer.
Now, I doubt he actually applied for said temporary license BEFORE offering his services to the Brown family.
Of course, I also doubt anyone is going to make an issue of it.
They might. Missouri has a pretty good bar, and remember that the Limbaugh family has a long and distinguished legal history there.
The lib/dems must be looking at this case now like it was an 8 lb bass that slipped the hook just as they got it to the boat. It had everything they needed for the Everything & Everybody Is Racist pre-midterm national shit-stirring story.
No. The more people question, the more inconsistencies are found, the more likely it is that it was self defense by the cop, the louder they cry racism.
This is one I thought – ahem I’ll wait few days .
Btw how are medical , law & education personnel to handle people this size? f#*ckin monster sized.
OK, I’m going to vent here in “let’s get real” mode…
Mr. Brown was heavier than I am (6’4″, two-hundred, sixty mumble-mumble pounds). A MONSTER I am not.
Even some of our good bloggers and conservative media have been hyperventilating. An MRAP is not a “tank”. Large urban police departments have had armored vehicles since at least Prohibition. Geez, go watch “Die Hard”. The problem is their proliferation into Mayberry. Does anyone know what vehicles we’ve seen are organic to Ferguson? Or did they come from greater St. Louis?
I doubt anyone has been using “rubber bullets”. Bean-bag rounds, yes. HUGE difference. I could be mistaken, but I’d need proof.
Go watch video of past riots. Things DO get pretty “militarized”. OR they go without any effective response. Myself, I want a good HARD response that restores civil society quickly. Net damage and casualties are lower. Even conservative writers have used “civil unrest” to describe rioting and looting. There is no excuse for that PC euphonium.
When a LEO asks you to do something for the fifth time, you are being ORDERED to do it. If that is a wrongful order, take it up later. “You can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride”. LEO training is to obtain compliance, and you are just asking to escalate by resisting. Remember, “they are scared”.
Feel free to play along with your venting “keeping it real”.
>> Myself, I want a good HARD response that restores civil society quickly.
Me too. Or rather, I also.
“When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” source: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1979&dat=19671227&id=ZpgiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K6oFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6500,9225416
An interesting read from the 60s.
Well well. It seems like the St Louis branch of Hamas has just broken the cease fire.
A Domino’s set on fire. Personally I don’t think the neighborhood losing a Domino’s is all that bad off. But that’s just me.
Forget what I said. The Domino’s is the least of the problems. THe looters are taking on a convenience store (the same one that Brown robbed ?), a meat market, a wireless store. All hell seems to ber breaking lose and the police are standing back.
>> A Domino’s set on fire. Personally I don’t think …
A joke from a couple decades ago:
A: It’s an outrage, they’re burning churches all over the south!
B: So what, I prefer Popeyes anyway
Heckuva job, Nixie…
The idiot Deemocrat governor of Missouri owns this now.
Heh!
The media has to take some blame here for fanning the flames. They tend not to note Brown’s actual size but they all seem to use the adjective teen, giving the impression Brown was some skinny 13 year old who’d get embarrassed when his voice kept breaking who was being hassled by a larger, over bearing cop.
I’ve stood next to more than one NFL All Pro lineman smaller than Brown was.
Monster People require monster sized responses.
Another witness pops up – this one says the same thing that Officer Wilson’s friend told Dana Loesch (max337 posted the link above but here it is again:
http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/15/exceptional-catch-the-jj-witness-video-eye-witness-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/
Officer Wilson, Michael Brown’s future victims thank you.
Geez, I hate giving idiots uppie arrows, but fair is fair. You are right – for once.
I know this will fly right over your head, philosophically, but…
if I remember the story right, Dr. Ben Carson was a bad boy, too. I could be conflating him with someone else, but the point is valid regardless.
I was in several situations where I could have been shot to death, and for being a bad actor when I was young and stupid.
Point being, we just don’t know about people. And any time a young person…hell, OLD person…is killed, it is a tragic thing in some respects, and could have cut short a life that MIGHT have been valuable and fine.
And how f**kin big would he be when he be stopped growing ?
Who is going to guess how many pallbearers are going to be needed . They will have to ask the polices for one of their military personnel carriers.
In the Meditations, Marcus Aurelius discussed how we own only the moment we live now, not the past or some unrealized future.
Whether one lived thirty years or three hundred, active life is perceived in an identical frame of reference: the moment.
So bemoaning a short life, or yearning for a long one, is in essence a futility.
If you or Carson had been shot dead in the moment, for your deeds of the moment, it would have represented equity.
And equity can not be consistent with tragedy.
If you wish to take a Christic outlook, simply consider yourself blessed by grace, but in no sense entitled to it.
So… Ol’ Marcus would spit on this.
“Officer Wilson, Michael Brown’s future victims thank you.”
Because there is no equity in projecting future crimes, huh?
I don’t think Marcus would scorn the point at all–he did spend his adult life on the frontier fighting for the future of the Empire.
Although it is almost certain that a cloven hoofed beast like Brown would have committed further felonies and damaged other lives, I do not offer that as justification for his killing in this particular moment.
That qualification of ‘almost’ requires us to await the moment(s) in question.
I simply offer the pragmatic observation that Brown’s death is a classic case of ‘addition by subtraction’. Its a secondary point.
Brown’s likely future as a felon is not necessary to justify his killing now, as Brown’s actions in the moment fully earned him that outcome.
By the same token, had Brown a sterling humanitarian past it would not absolve him of the guilty acts which led to his death.
Just like St. Trayvon, and Jordan Davis, and Joseph Harvey.
Speaking of ol Joe,.. you know Walker got acquitted, right?
Just asking, because after being all over every other Walker thread, I didn’t see you at all in the acquittal comments.
Maybe I just missed it.
Awwww… That’s sweet that you look for me.
You’ll understand that I don’t always have an opinion or time to express it, right?
Since you asked, I would have found Walker guilty. But I don’t predict jury conduct, and I know very little about the trial and the evidence presented.
So what could I contribute?
Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.
Some discussion by people who live in the area. Right or wrong, it’s what some believe:
http://www.realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31197
It seems Holder and his people tried to make the investigation LESS transparent by withholding the video and photos from the robbery.