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Should we rescue Democrats from their Obamacare disaster?

Should we rescue Democrats from their Obamacare disaster?

Republicans repeatedly have made proposals to protect the public from the Obamacare disaster.

Not just the substance of the law, but also the timing of the individual mandate.

Way back when (i.e, about two weeks ago), Democrats called such proposals extortion, terrorism, suicide-bombing and legislative arson.

Now an increasing number of Democrats, particularly those up for re-election in 2014, are calling for similar delays.

Perhaps Republicans should take a “what goes around, comes around” attitude, and do nothing to help Democrats out of the bind they are now in.

Democrats own Obamacare’s failure completely. That’s the primary outcome of the government scale-back, which now is over. Democrats were willing to shut a portion of the government to prevent any meaningful changes, and were willing to (erroneously) threaten a debt default rather than agree to the types of changes many Democrats now are proposing.

So we should now help Democrats out of the healthcare.gov debacle? We should now, having been demonized, help the Democrats who demonized us?

Erick Erickson says screw them (my characterization), Follow the Law:

No conservative wants things to get worse. We just know things will get worse. Obamacare will be deeply destructive. People are already seeing it. The only way Obamacare would ever work is if people behaved irrationally. It is a system that requires the young to go out and by their own insurance, but allows them to stay on their parents’ insurance until they are well into their twenties. The law operates only if people do not behave like people.

Republicans should be opposed to any and all fixes of Obamacare. The GOP should not lift even half a finger to accommodate Democrat demands for changes. The Democrats planned and implemented Obamacare without a single Republican vote. They made clear they did not need the votes. They used a budgetary procedure in the Senate to get around a filibuster after the people of Massachusetts sent a Republican in Ted Kennedy’s steed to try to stop it.

So the Democrats can own it. They can own every deleted application, every delayed entry into the website, every denial of insurance, every decline in full time work, and every denial of care that comes from this horrible law.

The Democrats can own it all.

Republicans who have said forever that the law will crumble on its own (looking at you, Paul Ryan), need to step back and let it collapse.

Of course, we’re way too nice. Of course, we’ll accept reasonable proposals to prevent Obamacare from burning down the house, because we’re just that way.

We’re not the legislative arsonists, we’re the legislative firemen.

But maybe this should be the theme song for how Republicans react when Democrats come begging to join us in fixing Obamacare:

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Comments

Offer to delay it for a year .. nothing else

    kevino in reply to Neo. | October 25, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    There should be no delays, no exemptions, and no illegal re-writing of the law by the Administration. Period.

    This is why the GOP is the Stupid Party. Democrats are going to implement this disgusting mass of worm-ridden filth, but they want to soften the blow and avoid the sharp edges before the 2014 elections. It’s like deficit spending: “Don’t worry about the pain and suffering to come. Don’t think about the future at all. Just enjoy the benefits today.”

    The American people were warned about this, and the dems succeeded in ramming it down everyone’s throats. The American people rewarded the democrats by re-electing President Obama. It’s time for some people to learn that elections have consequences.

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
    – H. L. Mencken

    KitsapJay in reply to Neo. | October 25, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Everyone that has health insurance and plans to have a policy next year are already forced to buy this turd at a premium. Delaying the mandate only stops the requirement of law to have insurance, not the prudence to have insurance.

    Total repeal would allow the old laws to be in effect, I am sure all insurance companies would be happy to extend their policies with a premium adjustment, but it is still a total disaster.

    The changes that medical practices that are mandated will surface in 3 months, and they are not good. The cuts to medicare are coming and they are not good.

    The O’Care train has left the station with the Dem’s at the controls, I think they deserve the opportunity to steer this wonderful program off the cliff.

    stevewhitemd in reply to Neo. | October 25, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I was called an ‘economic traitor’ when I suggested (along with many, many others) a month ago that we delay the individual mandate for a year. It was suggested that people like me be charged with sedition. I was told that ObamaCare was ‘settled law’.

    Who made those charges and said those things?

    The very same Democrats who now want a delay in the individual mandate.

    Will anyone call them an economic traitor? A seditionist? Will they be excoriated on the floor of the House, on MS-NBC, in the Puffington Host, in the editorial pages of the NYT?

    Of course not. Silly me.

    I will not give them the satisfaction of flaying me for recognizing, a month and a year and three years ago, that the shit sandwich called ObamaCare was about to fail.

    No. They now get to eat the same sandwich they force-fed us.

    No. No delay. No cooperation. Enforce the law exactly as written. That means bring back the employer mandate and remove all the waivers Champ granted.

    You wanted it, Democrats and progressives? Here you go. It’s yours.

    You want my cooperation in the future? Treat me as a citizen rather than as an enemy.

I’m against a delay. Why give them time to fix it? Why give people time to get used to it?

I would be in favor of changes that actually improve the situation — for example, permanently dropping the penalty to $1.

    Exiliado in reply to Same Same. | October 25, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Who cares about the Democrats? Just save America from this abomination.

    Demand a refund of all the money spent in that fake website and then kill the whole thing.

    Start a real, honest, and one-step-at-a-time effort to improve healthcare without the liberal “all or nothing, vote for it so you can find out what is in it” mentality.

    Freddie Sykes in reply to Same Same. | October 25, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Eliminating the penalty would do no good as long as the minimum mandates on health insurance apply. Private policies must conform to the law and cannot offer people policies that do not. This expansion of coverage increases prices so much that only the sick will carry insurance. Without being able to force the young and healthy into subsidizing the old and sick, premium costs would spiral and insurance companies would be forced from the market.

    The bill needs to be repealed and then we need to address each of the problem in simple, stand alone bills. Baby steps not comprehensive legislation that nobody can read or understand.

      We’ll said, Freddie! But wold repealing undo the damage already done to the hundreds of thousands that have had their policies cancelled?

      Same Same in reply to Freddie Sykes. | October 25, 2013 at 11:46 am

      Wrong, Freddie. The penalty applies to not having a policy which complies with the minimum requirements in the ACA. If you don’t have to pay the penalty, then there is no incentive to buy an ACA conforming policy. You can buy any policy you want.

        Radegunda in reply to Same Same. | October 25, 2013 at 1:18 pm

        You can’t buy any policy you want if insurers are only offering “compliant” policies and some have pulled out of the individual market altogether in some states.

        KitsapJay in reply to Same Same. | October 25, 2013 at 1:32 pm

        It is illegal for insurers to offer non-compliant plans. They must offer no lifetime maximum (I thought my $2M max was pretty good – I don’t plan to be RoboMan), they must offer guys maternity, probably must offer sex change and boob jobs, free birth control, free therapy, free legal advice, free drugs, etc. – after you meet that $6,500 per person deductable.

          Phillep Harding in reply to KitsapJay. | October 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm

          No way, no how could I afford a $6500 deductable. Can’t do it. I make less than the poverty line as it is, and the employer would just drop me from receiving benefits if the cost of my current policy went up too much, and the insurance company is dropping something like $75000 per year as it is.

          Without that insurance, I’m dead meat.

      Radegunda in reply to Freddie Sykes. | October 25, 2013 at 1:16 pm

      The sick, and people in high-risk occupations — e.g. independent contractors and builders who buy their own insurance. There’s no way they can risk going uninsured.

        MarlaHughes in reply to Radegunda. | October 26, 2013 at 9:02 am

        In fact, in some cases such as the cleaning industry, you cannot practice your business without insurance on everyone, especially those going into other people’s homes and businesses.

We don’t need to delay it. We need to get rid of it.

    Neo in reply to Ike1. | October 25, 2013 at 11:05 am

    This healthcare.gov rollout certainly makes pivoting to “Single Payer” a whole lot harder.

    Same Same in reply to Ike1. | October 25, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Making it optional is the same thing as repealing it.

      Radegunda in reply to Same Same. | October 25, 2013 at 1:21 pm

      Not as long as insurers are only offering “compliant” policies, or staying out of some markets altogether — putting insurance beyond reach of many who want to have it. And then there are the many regs that adversely affect how physicians practice medicine, the device tax, etc. The mandate is just a small part of this hideous law.

    Eastwood Ravine in reply to Ike1. | October 25, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    Bingo! Republicans should offer only one solution to fix the mess that has come and is to continue; that solution is a bill a fully repeals Obamacare.

    Anything less is tantamount to being an enabler of the Progressive agenda.

From the TPM comments: “…this is problem-solving made necessary by unforeseen consequences.”

Unforeseen??? Hahahaha.

It’s the Law of the Land! You can’t go around tampering with the Law of the Law, you anarchists!

Next thing you know, you will be trying to over turn the Supreme Court’s ruling in Plessy v Ferguson.

I suppose any further delay will include a delay in the obamacare taxes scheduled to hit beginning January 1, 2014.

The mandate taxes are small beans. Bad yes but the killer is exploding premiums for very poor quality insurance that people specifically do not want for many reasons. The high deduction and high co-pay policies that are replacing what insurance products people want and are used to paying for are what Progressives used to call $(!# insurance and claimed to want replaced. Only after the massive education of the public that the mandate penalty tax is 1% of earned income (it is only $95 if you earn less than $9500 per year) before ballooning in 2015 should delay be considered. One by one the booby traps in this legislation must be exposed.

Either complete total repeal or follow the law as written, pick one. If the Republicans require anything else it will not go well. The GOP establishment has already done a fine job of hacking off the base and I suggest they quit doing this immediately or the consequences will make 2012 look like a Sunday picnic in the park.

But it is OK for the Republicans to point out to the Democrats who now find sensitive body parts in the wringer that “we told you so” and sympathy is a word in the dictionary between syphilis and …

    snopercod in reply to OldNuc. | October 25, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    Sadly, Boner and McConnell will cave (again) on this and try to delay the onerous provisions of Obamacare until after the 2014 elections.

No!

Thanks to a FEW very brave and honest Conservatives, the marker has been laid down.

They are hated and reviled for it…now.

Now just back away and let the Collectivists eat this.

Then, come 2014 and 2016, the nation has a clear choice to make.

MaggotAtBroadAndWall | October 25, 2013 at 11:26 am

The individual mandate – the most hated part of the law -has to be strengthened if the law has any chance of surviving. I’m waiting for Republicans to announce they support strengthening the individual mandate in exchange for something nobody cares about.

Lots of stories have been circulating that business is upset with Republicans for how they handled the 17% shutdown and debt ceiling negotiations. So if Big Insurance can get others in the Big Corporate business community to threaten Republicans with withholding campaign contributions unless Republicans agree to bail out Big Insurance by strengthening the individual mandate, I think Republicans might go along.

Sure, that will bring on a full fledged grass roots revolt and probably lead to a new third party, but I think there is a chance that Republicans may do it. I hope I’m wrong. We’ll see.

    Your concern is well placed, further supported by the Republican “leadership” desire to have immigration “reform?” this year. With America spinning in disarray because of obamacare, this seems like the easiest of all times to say, simply: No.

Not A Member of Any Organized Political | October 25, 2013 at 11:32 am

NO!

No Rescue!

Do not be an enabler.

But, but, but if the GOP won’t help the Democrats out, the Democrats will say horrible things about the GOP! What then!

Seriously… the GOP needs to do one of two things:

1. Let it burn. Let the Democrats own it and suffer the consequences.

2. Help, but on one condition – that GOP help will be dictated to the Dems on GOP terms, take it or leave it, no negotiations, no compromises. If you want the GOP to bail you out, you will accept (fill in GOP terms, fixes) without conditions and without your input, a procedure Dems are quite familiar with.

Personally, I vote for #1 because, excepting a few members, the GOP simply doesn’t have the balls for #2.

No need to aaask smooth operator Harry Reid.

Is this the same Erik Ericson who, just a few weeks ago, was certain that Republicans could stop Obamacare by “defunding” it, gaining popularity by shutting down the government in the process? Is this the same Eric Ericson whose web site (RedState) called any Republican who didn’t buy into his foolish proposal a RINO and a member of the “surrender caucus”? Is this the same Ericson whose web site actually bans anyone who strongly disagrees with his writers and moderators on this subject?

Nah, it has to be someone else with the same name.

Delaying the individual mandate or extending the enrollment period does NOTHING to change the underlying problems with Obamacare like skyrocketing premiums. A delay will only delay the sticker shock…possibly past the 2014 elections, which is why Red State Dems are willing to do it.

A delay has nothing to do with being a Good Samaritan. At this point, it is a crass political calculation by Democrats, who are afraid of their own constituents.

The majority of the ‘unsuspecting public,’ who is now facing reality, voted for Obama.

It is time for Americans to learn that elections DO HAVE consequences.

Let the pain rain…hard.

No- The line is to repeal the entire thing and start over. Nothing else. Apt picture– let it burn.

Every American should find out what is in this bill. It’s the law of the land. When they find out- it will be 2014 elections and we can repeal it with a GOP majority.

BTW- as this train wreck continues- we heading for a deep recession by April as Americans will have 300-600 less per household due to having to buy more expensive policies.

What we “should” do is meaningless, hypothetical hyperventiliating. What we will do is what we always do — the gullible, fearful and politically self-attenuating thing, as strategically determined by the democrats and media in a pressure-pincer movement they’ve patented over decades. And then the GOP can share blame in the disaster of Obamacare and blunt their advantage in 2014. Because that’s the script, and it never changes.

Absolutely not. They wrote it, they passed it, they screwed it up; They own it. Why should GOP help them fix it? They’re the ones who are causing pain for innocent Americans with their debacle. They should pay the consequences of their incompetence and failures.

    Radegunda in reply to Jenny. | October 25, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    A delay isn’t going to bring back affordable insurance for people who are losing it. It would only let the Dems posture as caring and compassionate.

    Which, obviously, they aren’t.

What a difference ONE WEEK makes! It is truly hard to believe that a week ago, Republicans were on the way to extinction. Now they’re prophetic and in control!

It is Democrats that are in a panic and running for the hills demanding what they called terrorism last week!

    Archer in reply to jacksonjay. | October 25, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    I disagree. A week ago, the Republicans were “prophetic and in control.” They had the power to pass or not pass funding. They were offering funding packages favorable to the American people and being rejected at every turn. The press – the freakin’ liberal-pandering, Administration-mouthpiece press – was actually starting to report what conservative Congress-people were saying, and not out-of-context. The word was getting out that the Senate Dems were the unreasonable ones and that the ACA is a glorified ponzi scheme. Cries of “legislative terrorism” were ringing hollow. People (especially low-information voters) were starting to listen and pay attention. The GOP had it all.

    And then they caved.

    Around here, they call that “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”

    Now, the Dems are back in control. They know their taunts and verbal jabs were effective. They demanded, and their demands were met. Now, to save themselves, they’ll make more demands, and I have every expectation the GOP will meet them again. The GOP is on its way to extinction, by their own actions (or inactions, depending); they refused to stand firm on their principles.

    This is no longer a legislative tug-of-war between the “Right” and “Left.” It’s “Fifty Shades of Gray,” Congress-style. The GOP has tied their end of the rope around their necks, and is obediently following the Dems, staying a dutiful two steps behind, and only occasionally pretending to resist.

Would they rescue us?

    Henry Hawkins in reply to Rosalie. | October 25, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    ^^^THIS^^^

    Subotai Bahadur in reply to Rosalie. | October 25, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    First, I hit the thumbs down totally by accident. THAT SHOULD NOT BE THERE. My bad.

    Second, “Would they rescue us?” applies to both the Democrats and the Institutional Republicans. And the answer in both cases is a resounding, “No!”.

    Subotai Bahadur

If they wanted young people to buy insurance, they should have allowed super-cheap policies to be available, with some ads highlighting young adults who broke a leg or something and were happy to have the comfort of that basic insurance. (Been there …)

Forcing the price of insurance to skyrocket is a lousy way to increase the proportion of the population that’s insured. Which means that cannot have been the real goal.

I think the goal should be to preserve as much of the private healthcare infrastructure as possible.

The goal of Obamacare, as we all know, is the annihilation of private healthcare, leaving single payer as the only option.

Not sure how much the GOP can do from where they sit, but it should be their main focus. The point is not whether Obamacare is going to blow-up. The point is, then what?

The Republicans should not, under any circumstances, step back and remove themselves from this.

What they need to do is take a hard line: “You own this. You want changes? You want our help to enact those changes? There’s one – and only one – change we’ll help with: full and complete repeal.”

I said this during the “shut down.” Their negotiation strategy should have been to offer concessions, but put an expiration date on the offer, and a promise that it’s the best the Dems will get; the next offer won’t be as nice. Incrementally become “less reasonable,” and explain for the press that the delays in passing funding hurt America and this strategy is designed to minimize the delays.

That would have required a hard line, and in retrospect, I don’t think the GOP as a whole has the spine or the balls for hard anything. I want them to surprise me, but I expect them to cave and try to help (aka become complicit and share Obamacare ownership with) the Democrats.

It’s a sad state of affairs.

Subotai Bahadur | October 25, 2013 at 1:26 pm

IF the Institutional Republicans were a real opposition party [an obvious fictional postulate], having had their nether regions kicked [voluntarily] on this issue they would refuse to take any action to delay, and just point out what happened a couple of weeks ago.

And then if they were serious about protecting the country [yeah, I know; I’ve moved from fiction to fantasy]; they would trot those same nether regions down to the Federal Court for the District of Columbia and file an action against the President over the website notification that delayed the Employer Mandate. He had no legal or Constitutional authority to do so. Under both Nixon and Clinton, the Supreme Court ruled overwhelmingly that once a law is signed the President has to follow it. It is NOT “legal if the President does it”.

That would help box Obama in from simply ruling by decree again, or at least raise the cost. The court case would be bumped up the chain to higher courts fairly quickly, because all the precedents involved are in those courts. DC District to DC Circuit Court of Appeals, to Supreme Court. It won’t be instantaneous, but as a strategic move it will play out within a year, before any putative elections in 2014.

Of course, the Institutional Republicans would not recognize the concept of making a strategic move against the Leftists if such was presented to them; and would be appalled at the idea if they did recognize it.

Expect Boehner and McConnell to do their best to save the Democrats from any blame and assume it themselves. They will always volunteer to be the sin eaters at the Democrats’ feast on the carcass of Constitution.

Subotai Bahadur

The GOP should extract concessions for also supporting the delay of the individual mandate. I’d suggest a bill requiring 1)income verification prior to any premium subsidy 2)permanent prohibition for Congress and staff receiving any subsidy for their exchange purchased health insurance 3)officially mandated penalty capped at $1 for any individual who fails to meet the individual mandate and that can only apply if the IRS carries the burden of proof that even that $1 penalty applies to the taxpayer.

No! I am not too nice, and I hope Cruz filibusters any attempt they or RINOs make to implement a delay.

I wouldn’t help them. They called us crude names, and said we were terrorists because we wanted to stop this monstrosity, they now own it. If we help them, they will turn on us once again, and it will look like this was all OUR fault.

    Archer in reply to wendybar. | October 25, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Amen. All GOP press statements should follow the same template. If I might make a suggestion:

    “Last time we had this debate, the Democrats called us ‘legislative arsonists’ and ‘terrorists.’ Why on this green Earth are they now begging the ‘terrorists’ for help? If they want help from ‘terrorists’ to destroy our way of life, they can call Al-Qaeda.”

theduchessofkitty | October 25, 2013 at 1:34 pm

“Should we rescue Democrats from their Obamacare disaster?”

No, no, and 300 million times HELL NO!!!!

I already know, even before the letter from my husband’s health insurance carrier comes, that we will be thrown to the wolves. How do I know that?

Every Health Fair held in past Octobers at my husband’s company, there were representatives from his health insurance ready to answer questions for employees and their dependents (United HealthCare), in addition to the usual flu shot, health booths and on-site massage, blood-pressure screening and the like, and even the Mammogram Mobile Unit from MD Anderson.

Do you want to know what I saw three weeks ago, at the annual Health Fair? Just the flu shot. Nothing else. MD Anderson was present, sure. But it was all as if nothing else had happened. People got their flu shots and left for lunch. There was nothing else. United HealthCare shone brightly by their absence.

I will not be surprised when the hit comes to us.

And I already know whom NOT to blame for this: Republicans, because they ALL, to the very last Congresscritter, voted against this atrocity of an “Affordable Care Act.”

No one here or in this nation should EVER FORGET the picture that showed it all: that &!%@#, Nancy Pelosi, holding that huge HAMMER (because that’s what that truly was), with her fellow Democrats, on their way to HAMMER that disgusting law down our throats, whether we liked it or not… simply because they could, with total contempt for the American people, especially those who were very happy with the health coverage they had. They didn’t care. They acted as total schoolyard bullies, like a violent narco-gang, after all of us… so they can give The People’s Money to those who had never worked for it, and have their all-hollowed votes, till Kingdom come.

That doesn’t sit very well with me.

Every time I have heard people around me mention that disgusting “ACA” near me, the reaction is the same: total disgust. Total fury. And this is coming from people who never talk politics, or tell you who to vote for. If the people near me are not happy at all with this, imagine how widespread this is nationwide. The people know this is not just going to collapse their health coverage: they are also beginning to see this is going to permanently damage the entire U.S. economy and jobs market.

The Democrats should burn in this Hellfire of their own creation. They passed this in secret – they infamously made sure the American People would not see at all “what’s in it” before it was passed. They passed it with all kinds of regulations that are absolutely confusing and even pork-laden. They passed it even though, repeatedly, the American People wanted NOTHING to do with it. They passed it even after knowing it would cost JOBS, and even part-time jobs.

Yeah, this was passed, “so we could see what’s in it.” Now, we know.

The Democrats deserve ZERO help from anyone in this matter. They made their bed. It’s past time they lie in it.

Let it burn. Let Democrats burn.

Let. Them. Burn!

    ““Should we rescue Democrats from their Obamacare disaster?”

    No, no, and 300 million times HELL NO!!!!

    I already know, even before the letter from my husband’s health insurance carrier comes, that we will be thrown to the wolves. How do I know that?

    Every Health Fair held in past Octobers at my husband’s company, there were representatives from his health insurance ready to answer questions for employees and their dependents (United HealthCare)

    Do you want to know what I saw three weeks ago, at the annual Health Fair? There was nothing else. United HealthCare shone brightly by their absence.”

    I see a lot of fires burning, it will be quite ugly. I think we need the Senate D’s to write the law that fixes this “Turd” and gives them full ownership of it. The house can then take their time letting it die in committee as the fix should be done by the party that botched this.

I’m in the camp of “just let it happen and watch it collapse”. I think that’s the quickest, surest road to complete repeal. However, I can understand the view that, once the subsidies and other benies kick in, it will be more difficult to repeal.

Some people will benefit, no doubt. Poor people and sick people with no insurance will be the biggest beneficiaries. Once this happens, it will be difficult to take these benefits away; they will have to be continued in some fashion. However, I think the people who will feel a net negative effect will be much more numerous than those who feel a net positive effect.

So, let it roll unimpeded. Point out the deficiencies at every opportunity along with giving appropriate credit to those responsible.

    Archer in reply to JayDick. | October 25, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    I’d agree, except for one small detail. The health insurance industry (and it encompasses an entire industry) has been building itself up for decades, and Obamacare will kill it in one fell swoop.

    But when Obamacare collapses, the insurance industry will still be gone. It will not be restored overnight, and that will leave a helluva lot of Americans out in the cold.

    Were it not for that, I’d agree ideologically to let the train wreck burn, but I still feel the need to protect whatever victims – and “victims” they will be – we’re still capable of protecting.

      gasper in reply to Archer. | October 25, 2013 at 3:33 pm

      Having trust in the free market system, I imagine the health care industry still has databases of their former customers and could re-insure them on a moment’s notice. I don’t think the companies themselves have gone out of business, they are just shedding plans that are not profitable. If I owned a company I would be ready for the collapse, and try to fill the gap when it came.

        Archer in reply to gasper. | October 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm

        If it goes that direction, I hope you’re right.

        It makes sense that the insurance companies would maintain their databases (it costs next-to-nothing to do so, and may be legally-required besides), and it’s good business sense to have a plan for Obamacare falling apart, just in case it does (and crafting that contingency plan also costs next-to-nothing).

        I still worry about Obamacare continuing on life support long enough that those companies effectively leave the market. Here in Oregon, the ACA exchange (OR did her own rather than use healthFAIL.gov) reportedly has signed up some 56,000 people for insurance, and it’s being touted as a great success. What they don’t report is that none of them – not one single person/family – has bought a private insurance plan; they all signed up for Medicaid plans.

        I don’t see how the insurance companies can prosper or survive when the mandated exchange is sending them zero customers.

        Still, like I said, I hope you’re right.

          JayDick in reply to Archer. | October 25, 2013 at 5:52 pm

          I understand your concern, but I think there will be a sufficient base so that insurance can be provided reasonably quickly. Don’t forget that the business of selling health insurance to companies for their employees will go on, slightly diminished perhaps, but not destroyed. These companies could easily expand into the private market if there are profits to be made.

We should treat this as the Dem’s have treated immigration reform. Nothing piecemeal. Only full, comprehensive reform is acceptable. Given that the Democrats have gone to the mat, we should refuse anything short of full, comprehensive reform of the latest medical reform law. I know, somehow the press will make it look like the ACA is Bush’s idea, and the GOP is standing in the way of Progressives fixing it.

rescue them … watch the utube at my website …remember nancy p making that walk with that over sized gavel and the smirk on her face …rescue them … I am going to laugh as their eyes roll back in their head and they gasp their last choking on the afterbirth of their own creation … the hell with them …personally I hope it gets worse

http://rightwingfringe.blogspot.com/

Any member of the GOP who lifts a finger to help out the Dems needs to have that hand chopped OFF! For eight years I had to listen to lies about how “evil” George Bush was. After all that negative propaganda the voters picked some clown who can’t glue two words together without a teleprompter!

Screw the Dems and everyone who supports them, especially RINO’s! They think they can prosper by the use of propaganda? Fine, then let them eat their prosperity – I’ll hand them a spoon to do it with…OR…are the Dems to big to fail?

This post was making perfectly good sense. Then there was a quote from Erickson included.

Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, but even bothering to read Erickson demonstrates a lack of seriousness.

I’m not sure the right question is being asked here. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans in Congress are in the least bit harmed by ObamaCare–no aspect of it touches them beyond the political point-scoring they can achieve.

This is a law, however, that is harming almost every aspect of our economy and is having a real and tragic impact on real people: from the destruction of the 40-hour work week (and the myriad ramifications of that, none good, and all leading, ultimately, to the destruction of the middle classes) to the millions of people who are going to suffer under this abomination (it never made sense to ruin a system with which 253 million were satisfied to cover 10-30 million, many of whom, it turns out, were eligible for Medicaid), this law is beyond horrible.

Read some of these real-life responses from people who are trying to navigate their way through this horrible nightmare: http://youngcons.com/must-read-the-definitive-guide-to-how-obamacare-is-destroying-american-lives/ Anyone care to speculate how this travesty will impact suicide rates across the nation? How many people will literally die because they cannot afford their deductibles before they can get the care they need? How long it will be before the government-run emergency rooms stop accepting anyone without payment as they do now? If this is the start, and it’s this bad, there is nothing but pain, anguish, horror to come.

The question isn’t: “Should we rescue Democrats from their Obamacare disaster?” It’s: “Should we rescue America from the Democrats’ Obamacare disaster?” And the only answer that is reasonable and moral is “yes.”

    I say DON”T rescue them. Obama kept throwing it in our faces that “He Won, the people spoke”. Let the people who voted for him stand up and fight this. We do not want Obamacare. Period.

MouseTheLuckyDog | October 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm

I am tempted to say no. People voted for this now let them own it.

But that would hurt a lot of people who didn’t vote for it.

However, I do remember the debate about TARP during the 2007 fiscal crisis, when Nancy Pelosi and other democrats took the floor and laid the whole crisis at the feet of the Republicans.

What republicans should do is agree to some sort of delay along with changes to fix the legislation. At the last moment they should add a n amendment to the bill ( in the House of course ), reading something like:

“This bill is being passed as a temporary measure to alleviate a pending collapse of the healthcare system. More measures will have to be passed to continue to repair the healthcare system in the future.”

“This is a direct result of the actions of Barak Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic leaders in the passing of the Affordable Care Act in 2009.”

Let them debate against that. Oh and when they do, their should be one uniform response, “You broke it, you bought it.”

Midwest Rhino | October 25, 2013 at 5:05 pm

First, the “house burning down” picture is not quite right … Obamacare never had a functional structure (though the pic does look like just studs burning). Burning the styrofoam Greek pillars Obama used would be more fitting. 🙂

Team Obama insists on cramming this through on schedule, no matter how faulty it is, maybe because burning down the old structure is the priority.

Our policies are skyrocketing in cost.

The Medicaid rolls are increasing dramatically, which was always part of the deception.

Millions are losing long held plans that don’t conform to Obamacare policy, which forces all sorts of coverage people don’t want to buy.

The job market is turning us into a part time nation, as employers avoid Obamacare mandates.

Obamacare suppression of the job market keeps our economy weak, and zero interest rate policy in place, which keeps making savers poorer, and the rich get richer off easy money.

All the destructive intentions of the rest of health care proceeds on schedule. Maybe THAT is why Obama is so insistent his war on health care march on into battle. They have stated their path to single payer is destruction of the private insurance industry.

So maybe they WANT it ALL to fail. Then they proceed with the already produced ads for “Single Payer”. Maybe Hillary or Warren are already crafting their flag draped campaign around total government care. Health care and housing and open borders … the RIGHTS the founders “forgot”.

Anyway … just another consideration. If a majority blame Barrycades on Republicans, it may be the free stuff promise still wins the day, till the currency collapses from printing trillions.

Conservative Beaner | October 25, 2013 at 6:05 pm

The GOP tried to hand them a gift to lessen the pain and got smacked down for it by the Dems.

The worm has turned, let it bury itself deep and very painfully into those who put this upon us.

no delays, no exemptions.
make it hurt and make it hurt bad.
elections have consequences and people need to see that.

If the GOP “leaders” in congress were smart the only help they offer is full repeal of the law to be replaced with market based reforms. This so called “law of the land” is a disaster and to just waive the individual mandate for a year or so will not help those who’ve lost their jobs, had their hours reduced. Nor will it help those who already purchase insurance for themselves and/or family, only now they get to pay much more in premiums, deductibles and co-pays. There are some families who had family coverage thru an employer but now some employers are only providing HC for the employee and they must purchase insurance for the rest of the family on the “exchange”. Delaying the individual mandate for a year only starts the insurance companies on a death spiral much sooner so a year or 2 from now Dems in congress will offer up single payer b/c the insurance companies were the problem. Obamacare needs healthy young people (18-30) to buy insurance to help balance out the sick and old on the exchanges, but there’s a couple of problems with that 1) those 26 and younger get to stay on parents plan, 2) the young and healthy don’t need to spend thousands of dollars a year in premiums to go to the doctor maybe a couple of times a year that would cost less than a $1000. Unless an employer offers a cheap plan most unmarried healthy young people won’t go out of their way to buy insurance unless Big Brother tells them they’ll get fined for not doing so. Unions that lobbied hard for Obamacare want out from it’s regulations along with those that passed it. President Stompy Feet, who signed the law and who it’s named after doesn’t want to be covered under it. Only full repeal will do nothing less. Find a backbone you coward republicans in congress!

Why in hell aren’t members of the GOP leadership all over the place pointing out that they have alternative plans to Obamacare should anyone care to hear them??

    Henry Hawkins in reply to Henry Hawkins. | October 25, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    And talk about an excellent time to recall and turn soundbite quips like ‘driving the country into the ditch’ against the Democrats…..

I’m all for throwing gasoline on that fire.

The website is the least of their worries. Sticker shock is the now their problem. Price is going to drive purchases of policies. Until every person that is not going to be subsidized or dumped into Medicaid knows the full extent of the damage to their budgets and disposable income, not a finger should be lifted to help the Democrats out of their hole. And everyday the Democrats are showing just how elitist, wealthy, and divorced from reality they truly are when they cannot comprehend the damage they have done. They really do not understand the hit to the pocketbook of a $400 increase in monthly premium. Nor do they understand that a $10,000 deductible is ruinous to most. And they aren’t going to believe stories of people having meltdowns when asked for $6000 to admit their baby with pneumonia to the hospital. Remember that they don’t work for us, they work for Obama. Republicans should drag their feet and do nothing until the full extent of the horror is known. It won’t take long.

The Senate has nothing to do with it. If Barry Soetero wants to delay the mandate, then he’ll simply proclaim it so, just like he’s done with countless other aspects of this “law.”

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