Well, here we are: Verdict Watch.
The jury has been charged in Florida v. Zimmerman, and have begun their deliberations. The verdict form is here. Final Jury Instructions here.
Last night they asked for an inventory list of the evidence–which makes sense given the dozens of witnesses and hundreds of exhibits. Now, we here at Legal Insurrection (and Law of Self Defense) are on stand-by ready to jump into action as soon as news emerges, whether that is the verdict itself or some lesser item. The video feeds located below the fold will be active when the broadcasters that control them feel there is something worth streaming.)
In a breaking development, the Special Prosecutor’s Office of Angela Corey has fired the IT specialist who blew the whistle on the prosecution’s concealment of evidence:
State Attorney Angela Corey fired her office’s information technology director Friday after he testified last month about being concerned prosecutors did not turn over information to George Zimmerman’s defense team in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.
On the same day attorneys finished their closing arguments in that nationally watched trial, a state attorney investigator went to Ben Kruidbos’ home about 7:30 a.m. to hand-deliver a letter stating Kruidbos “can never again be trusted to step foot in this office.”
(WAJ adds) This has been a dirty prosecution in so many ways, so no one should be surprised that as soon as the jury went into deliberations the retaliation began.
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Tweets from @LegInsurrection/zimmerman-trial
[For live-stream video without commentary, see NBC live feed at bottom of this post.]
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Saturday, July 13 Commentary
This past weekend I posted up an analytical piece of Mark O’Mara’s request for a judgment of acquittal. O’Mara’s motion was well-reasoned and supported by Florida’s case law. It was, of course, doomed to peremptory denial by Judge Nelson. In that piece I’ve linked almost all of the case citations made by O’Mara to full-length copies of the decisions, so you can see the sources for yourselves, if you like (most of the decisions are gratifyingly brief). You can see that here:
Why Zimmerman’s Motion for Acquittal Should Have Been Granted
Last Thursday, July 4, I had posted up a review of the trial to date, with some prognostication of how things may role out in the coming days. To take a look at that, click here:
Zimmerman Trial Review– How We Got Here, And Where We’re Going
For all of our prior coverage on day-to-day events in court, as covered here at Legal Insurrection, click here:
ARCHIVE: Zimmerman Trial LIVE coverage all day, every day
For all of our prior coverage on issues specific to the Law of Self Defense as covered at my own blog, click here:
Law of Self Defense Blog: Zimmerman Trial
(NOTE: If you do wander over to the LOSD blog, be sure to come back to Legal Insurrection to comment, as nearly all my time is spent here for the duration of the trial.)
Andrew F. Branca is an MA lawyer and author of the seminal book “The Law of Self Defense,” now available in its just released 2nd Edition, which shows you how to successfully fight the 20-to-life legal battle everyone faces after defending themselves. Take advantage of the 20% “Zimmerman trial” discount & free shipping (ends when the jury returns a verdict). NRA & IDPA members can also use checkout coupon LOSD2-NRA for an additional 10% off. To do so simply visit the Law of Self Defense blog. I have also instituted a similar coupon for Legal Insurrection followers LOSD2-LI(Coupons works ONLY at www.lawofselfdefense.com.) “The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition” is also available at Amazon.com.
Many thanks to Professor Jacobson for the invitation to guest-blog on the Zimmerman trial here on Legal Insurrection!
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Comments
Hoping for full acquittal on these ridiculous charges. Thank you Bill, Andrew, and all commenters on this site.
Did Judge Nelson send the jury a bowl of Skittles for a snack?
Another Mark Steyn classic:
Zimmerman case’s legal absurdities astound
…if Floridians are of a mind to let off a little steam, they might usefully burn down the Sanford courthouse and salt the earth. The justice system revealed by this squalid trial is worth rioting over.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/case-516709-zimmerman-child.html
it’s times like these i wish we weren’t so civil .
Not me. I’ve got my Mossberg Persuader locked, loaded and ready to make more Trayvons.
I’m not saying ‘Self-Defense’ isn’t needed .Me an mine are safe on that issue . Just that ‘WE’ believe in our laws an our Constitution to fix the wrongs. Not the NPP party or SEIU !!
Thanks, that was a brilliant evaluation of the absurdity called a trial
Angela Corey is the worse sort of personality to be in charge of prosecutions…
Steyn:
“If you know your Magna Carta, you’ll be aware that “no official shall place a man on trial … without producing credible witnesses to the truth of it.” But the rights enjoyed by free men in the England of King John in 1215 are harder to come by in the State of Florida eight centuries later.”
It’s come to that.
oops, meant to go under Mark Steyn link up thread.
I think the jury will return a guilty verdict on Manslaughter. For two reasons. The defense was unable to get before the jury any evidence of Martin’s less than exemplary character. So, the prosecution’s argument that he was an innocent child went unchallenged. Because that argument was a centerpiece of the prosecution’s closing, I think the judge’s decision precluding use of the cell phone texts was possibly reversible error. Secondly, West’s cross-examination of Rachel Jeantel was embarrassingly ineffective. I think the jury will credit a large part of her testimony. The defense’s best strategic decision was to shunt West to the background after that performance. The evidence before the jury is that an unarmed, innocent child was shot dead by a man who outweighed him by 40 pounds. I do not think the jury will conclude that Zimmerman could extricate himself from the danger he faced “only” through the use of deadly force, which is required under the self-defense instructions.
Unable?
1. Unwilling – due to being PC, having received threats or bribes, or having political aspirations, being a closet leftist, etc.
2. Saving it for the Appeal, Mistrial, Next trial, etc.
I hope the latter for the sake of this country and all the people involved: George Zimmerman and family, the young IT who was fired by Corey for blowing the whistle on dela Rionda, the law enforcement who have lost their jobs or ben demoted…and every citizen who believes in and depends on our great Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Another possibility:
3. Giving Traymom and Traydad a chance to do the right thing, come clean, admit their parental failures, how Trayvon’s life had been affected by their lifestyles and his choices, that they now believe GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT, call off the race dogs and turn the Trayvon Foundation into child protection and advocacy and parent education fund with scholarships similar to Ben Carson’s foundation.
“Because that argument was a centerpiece of the prosecution’s closing,”
— That’s a huge problem, since they never even once discredited self defense.
“Secondly, West’s cross-examination of Rachel Jeantel was embarrassingly ineffective.”
— How is proving the witness a liar and easily manipulated “embarrassingly ineffective?”
“I think the jury will credit a large part of her testimony.”
— If they do, that’s even worse for the prosecution! She told us Martin turned around to go back to the fight; she told us that he evaded Zimmerman! If we believe her completely, then self-defense is the only rational decision.
“The evidence before the jury is that an unarmed, innocent child was shot dead by a man who outweighed him by 40 pounds.”
— No. That’s not the truth at all. Tell me: Did you actually WATCH the trial?
“Secondly, West’s cross-examination of Rachel Jeantel was embarrassingly ineffective.”
Didntthe judge admonish West at one point when he raised his voice a little bit at jeantel? I think the judge implied she wold not allow the defense to really coss examiner her.
There is more than enough evidence in that jury room to acquit, if the six women actually use it instead of their emotional reaction to grieving parents.
That’s grieving, guilty, greedy parents.
Or their perfectly reasonable fear that Corey will arrange to have their personal information leaked so they get the “Reginald Denny experience.”
Well, perceptions are what they are.
DeeDee’s testimony was, to me, substantially damning. The “creepy-ass cracka” “innocent child”…??? DeeDee also stood as a stark contrast to the testimony of every one of Zimmerman’s witnesses, and would, to me, speak volumes about who Martin was and the company he was keeping.
The fearing rape “child” who keeps talking to his girl-friend up to the moment he gets physical? And the ONE person in this story who is an apparent bigot?
I thought Guy GROSSLY over-played that “child” BS in his rebuttal. He could have gotten away with it once…maybe twice…but not as a feature of his argument. I would have discounted/dismissed everything the man said after that crap.
I agree Guy’s rebutt was disgusting. I thought he tailored that to an all female, most are Mothers jury. Hope they see that the State was working them and are as outraged as I was.
Re: Ms Jeantel when she remarked GZ could be a rapist. I was waiting for TM’s response. Nothing!! No way would he not say something to that. I have girls w boyfriends, a 17 yr old would not let that go by. TM would have said “I’ll kill him” or whatever, in his own colorful way. Crump scrubbed that. I just hope those women have half a brain and use common sense.
Exactly…when I cautioned my young nephews to watch out for men who want to be their “friend” or strange men who are around them. The immediate response from all of them was they would pound any man who tried to rape them. It wasn’t run home or do their best to avoid attack but an immediate counter attack or preemptive attack. Yet none of my nephews were into fighting or being a thug.
Anyone who knows kids or how about just listen to them riding on the metro (if you dare). These kids are egging each other on into attacking people. I refuse to ride the DC metro anymore. If absolutely necessary, I will make sure that I ride in a car that does not have many young black youths — male and female— especially female.
I know that any little thing real or imagined would provoke attack. Just sitting in a seat they want could bring down a rain of fists. There is a real and under reported problem in DC. Baltimore is worse.
I thought West’s cross of Jenteal was ineffective allright… for the State, and she was purported to be its star witness. West was incredibly effective as he demonstrated her dishonesty and general lack of character.
I’m just curious…did anyone authenticate that the cell phone was indeed Rachel’s cell phone? I think they said Tracy Martin “found” her looking through his plan but how could he since I thought TM’s cell phone was under Sybrina’s plan? Finally, did anyone depose Rachel’s mom?
I missed some parts so maybe these were addressed.
Ummm what trial were you watching? wow
“I do not think the jury will conclude that Zimmerman could extricate himself from the danger he faced “only” through the use of deadly force, which is required under the self-defense instructions.”
__________________________
To quote MOM, “Really?”
So you think Zimmerman was lying on his back, being straddled by and getting pounded by Martin, and screaming desperately for help for nearly a minute, even though he could have gotten Martin off of him?
That defies common sense. If Zimmerman had had the strength to stop Martin or get away from him, don’t you think he would have done so?
Ground & Pound. Note that even the professional fighter can’t extricate himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKADggv018
/sry, skip the fluff, starts at 0:17
You never know what a jury will do…
While that may be true, I think O’Mara framed their testimony nicely in the close. Also, the Good eyewitness testimony as well as the discussion of injuries should create a significant amount of reasonable doubt in the Prosecution’s argument.
Also, I think the emotional grounds are balanced by the string of character / voice witnesses for GZ
I can’t imagine Jeantel’s testimony helping the prosecution in any way. In fact, it tells the jury a lot about Trayvon. “the company you keep” and all that.
I’m just a budle of nerves today. Either my faith in the judicial system will be renewed or destroyed today.
IKR? Me too. I am a midlife woman living on her own, and I need to be able to defend myself. I live near the thru highway and there’s a lot of drug addiction around here. I don’t want to second-guess myself in a critical moment because I’m wondering if I’ll get Zimmermanned…and that moment of hesitation could get me dead. If there is a conviction, I think the Zimmerman related hesitation will cause many deaths of innocent people.
“Do what is right; let the consequence follow.”
Learn what is right. Then do it without hesitation.
exactly, if he is guilty self defense will never be able to be used, so we just have to take the beating or the rape, which sickens me being a rape victim. but this is what happens when race fulls the fires
Gonna have to disagree with you. It won’t change much on an individual basis at all. If you’re armed and trained right and you’re threatened with bodily harm, you’ll go on auto pilot and shoot the bastard. In danger, with adrenalin pumping, you’re not going to worry about being Zimmerman-ized.
The problem is you won’t be armed. How many people will start leaving the gun at home?
Don’t worry… unless you’re unfortunate enough to live in a state with anti-second amendment learnings and laws, a woman is probably safe using a gun for self defense. Had the defendant in this case been Georgia Zimmerman, even Al Sharpton’s army would not have been able to get this to trial.
Either outcome needs to be tempered. You should never have blind faith in any system devised, populated, and supervised by people that has the power our legal system does.
Likewise, you’ve seen really fine, dedicated people striving mightily in our system, so you have to credit it with being worth something quite good. You can’t just say it is evil. It isn’t.
It is a about people and power. We cannot fix or alter human nature, so our best recourse is to adjust the power, and control it far more.
I like many of the things Glenn Reynolds has written over they years on these matters, and I hope this case will prompt more people to pay attention to the discussion.
I think not guilty verdicts probably come from B-37 (used to have a concealed carry permit), E-6 (husband has guns) and E-40 (safety officer who’s been a victim of crime). So I think they are hung right now with an edge to acquittal.
Maybe it is my native optimism, but I think they are just being conscientious. I think they are pretty much in accord to acquit.
OMG the CNN talking heads are dumb as bricks. It’s like they haven’t even watched the trial. It’s June 1 to them.
Isn’t “CNN talking heads” and “dumb” redundant?
Not just CNN – their puppet station HLN too, and MSNBC, and a majority of other too — all top heavy with a disproportionate of T.Martin supporters (many of them black of course) who continue to foist the distorted narrative of GZ disregarding a direct ‘directive’ not to get out of his car and continuing to follow Martin. That lie has been permanently established, and I don’t see any way to remove it from public consciousness.
Actually, it would take quite a bit more than an acquittal to restore my faith in the system. . . .
It would require Angela Corey being fired and disbarred, the judge being removed from her position, and the three prosecutors fired and sanctioned for their role in this kangaroo court. Oh. . . and Crump should be disbarred and jailed for his role in obstructing justice.
Now that combination of events might do it. . . .but the way it looks to me now is that the justice system isn’t really any morally or ethically superior to the Mafiosi.
They just have more power than the Mafia, and are ready, willing, able, and eager to railroad an innocent person if they think there is an advantage in it for them.
And the IT guy that Angela Corey fired because his testimony outed their obstruction of justice… hope he sues the state into oblivion.
Corey should spend the rest of her life cleaning his toilets.
I’d bet he’s fielding multiple job offers as we sit here. And he’s put another arrow into the appeal quiver, should it come to that.
We need to start at the top. I voted for Rick Scott in 2010, but won’t in 2014. Even if his opponent is Charlie Crist I will vote for anyone but Scott. If he had a pair none of this would happen.
Geraldo Rivera is in Florida for Fox on Verdict Watch. He thinks Zimmerman is not guilty.
Now that makes me nervous for GZ because anytime Geraldo starts spouting off about something I am convinced the likelihood of a different outcome increases substantially.
Well, of course I agree with the not guilty, but Jerry Rivers doesn’t exactly have the best predictive record….
7:12:06 to 7:15:43 that is the time of the last call between TM and Dee Dee. Of all the things about RJ (Dee Dee) that bothers me there are two specific statements that keep floating to the top of my truth/BS meter.
First, Dee Dee said she felt guilty when she found out that TM was dead because she thought it was just a fight. She wanted to know the time of death so she could look at the time of her phone calls. Second, Dee Dee says that after the thump and phone disconnected that she was not concerned because she heard people around. She said she HEARD people around.
Neighbor Lauer heard voices followed by scuffling. She muted the TV after hearing the scuffling of shoes on concrete and decided to call 911, grunting followed by yelping begins almost immediately with wrestling on grass, husband tried to call 911 but his phone froze, Lauer picks up her cell phone and calls 911 and yelps turn to cries for help with only one voice screaming.
Lauer 911 call begins at 7:16:11.
Lauer and husband tried to re-inact event and thought that 30 seconds passed from the time they decided to call 911 and the call beginning. So the best guess is that the scuffling began at 7:15:37. Lauer and RJ both testified to hearing the beginning of the encounter or the three part exchange which would have been before the 7:15:37.
Lauer says that she heard Good tell them to stop. Good said that he did not hear yells for help when he first stepped outside, but after he stepped out he heard yells for help. Lauer said that the yelps turned to cries for help after she was on 911. John Good is not heard on the Lauer 911 tape.
Dee Dee said she heard people around there during her phone call.
I suggest that the phone call between Dee Dee and TM continued through John Good stepping out onto the porch and yelling at TM/GZ to cut it out. It was at this point that GZ’s yelps turn to cries for help.
I think Dee Dee was getting her freak on listening to TM beat the crap out of GZ.
I personally agree with you–I think she egged him on. I think his blootoof fell off soon after the fight started, which would be about 10 seconds before the TM-RJ phone call cuts off. If you timeline that to the gunshot, the fight lasted 1:10. People keep referring to 40 seconds but that’s the amount of recorded yelling there is, in the background of the Lauer 911 call.
I think the call record showed when the call was disconnected. I think Dee-Dee felt guilty because she may have encouraged trademark to fight. When that last call started, she said trademark told her he was behind his father’s place. I’m sure thre was more to the conversation since she was on the phone with him as he made his way back to the T to confront the “creepy ass cracker”.
That has been my theory from the beginning.
Deedee tried to hide because she knows she is guilty of provoking the fight.
i think your ‘Dead’ on right . Told my wife after Dee Dee testified she felt guilty cause she egged the teenager on to fight . It was like i could hear the cell phone real time in my ears . I’ll stand-by that !!
I might have missed this if ever discussed or brought up in the trial….but was the time of the NE call, 911 calls and TM calls calibrated…meaning…did they determine that they were all set for the exact same time…15 – 30 seconds can make a whole lot of difference to the time line.
The evidence is that TM racially profiled GZ.
Creepy ass cracker is clearly an anti-white racial epithet. Of this there can be no doubt.
GZ called police when he saw a suspicious stalker in his neighborhood. That’s what honest law abiding innocent people do.
In contrast, neither TM nor Jeantel called the police. That’s because criminals don’t call the police when they’re about to commit a crime. The crime was to assault/kill the creepy ass cracker because the child-burglar-stalker-assaulter TM didn’t like being watched, and indeed, may have seen and overheard GZ calling the police.
Jeantel didn’t come forward because she knew she was in serious trouble in the aftermath. Why was she in serious trouble? Because TM had TOLD her he was going to attack the cracker right before it happened. Her encouragement of him doing that or failure to report it makes her an accomplice before, during, and after the fact.
This is indeed “the bizarro” [completely inverted] case as O’Mara phrased it.
I have been puzzled as to why the defense never brought out that TM never called the police given that the prosecution made a big deal that TM supposedly was trying to get away. Maybe the marijuana evidence could have tied in that way. TM would not have wanted to get caught by the police with marijuana in his system.
they dont have to say he didnt call 911 because he didnt call them, they jury isnt stupid well lets hope not
Didn’t she also claim that George said something to the effect of ” what are you talking about?” Doesn’t that also show that George didn’t have malice or ill will? Doesn’t that also show that George was not the aggressor?
It’s hard to believe anything Jeantel said was actually truthful.
The key point about the phrase “creepy ass cracker” as put into TM’s mouth by Jeantel is it would have allowed O’Mara to completely reverse the “racial profiling” narrative, had he chosen to go that way. In hindsight maybe he should have faced the issue head on but he and West probably were (and are) extremely fearful for their safety and their families’ safety.
BDLR was careful not to say “racial” because there was no evidence GZ had racially profiled. But he kept saying “profiled” without the modifier clearly trying to imply it without saying it.
The difference is that “cracker” is clearly an anti-white racial epithet. It is crystal clear proof that the only racist in that altercation was TM not GZ. And there’s nothing the prosecution could have done about it had the defense wanted to paint TM as the anti-white racist that he obviously was. Perhaps he would have needed to bring in a linguist or lexicographer as an expert to lay the foundation of explaining the racial prejudice aspects of “cracker” but I’m sure he could have found someone to testify on that.
Afterwards “it’s on.” TM was a racist, he was a thug, he was a sociopath, he could assault/murder someone without a second though on the way home from buying skittles, just as easily as Joe Pesci could have a dead body in the trunk of his car while laughing and eating scrambled eggs at his mom’s house with Ray Liotta in “Goodfellas.”
Hard to believe Rachel didn’t care enough to call TM the next day.
not really . When you consider she is an ‘Idiot.’
IKR? She didn’t try to call him back at all ever and said she only found out he died that Tuesday. They were talking ALL DAY on Sunday. All of a sudden, no calls? That to me shows a guilty conscience.
There have been comments in other places that she was catfishing Trayvon. No one ever asked her- “When did you meet Trayvon?” There is a possibility they were just phone friends, and he thought she was a hottie based on her profile, w/o ever actually having met her…
Does anyone know or has anyone seen evidence they actually knew each other?
They knew each other as kids….years went by and then they started talking about 3 weeks before his death. I agree with the catfishing theory…older woman and all. I also saw on a tweet or facebook page one of TM’s friends making that comment because she had pulled it on another friend…Andre I believe.
I am bothered that the defense chose not to bring in TM’s toxicology report indicating the marijuana in his system. I seem to recall GZ saying to the dispatch that TM was acting strange and looked like he might be on drugs. It might not be a big factor in how the events played out that night but I think it is significant.
Also, did GZ ask his attorneys, after being asked by JDN whether he wanted to testify, “Where’s the mairijuana?”
Marijuana in the blood just clouds the issues.
Many people incl. those on the jury might assume that being high on marijuana would make you more “mellow” and it doesn’t sound like there was really a reliable expert who could have testified one way or the other.
It could have backfired. It’s not as if he had PCP in his system.
Both marijuana and codeine (ingredient for one of Trayvon’s favorite drugs) have been correlated with aggression, violence and paranoia:
http://www.ukcia.org/research/AgressiveBehavior.pdf
http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/aggression.htm
http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/trayvon-martin-day-2.png
Adolescent brains are vulnerable to damage from drug use, they going through a neuronal pruning process that diminishes judgment and increases emotional lability anyway – drugs are like adding the nitro to teen brain glycerine.
NO sane or responsible civil authority should legalize drugs of any kind. In fact, Oxycontin should be taken off the market it is so addictive and often abused.
those of us with spinal injuries hope you don’t get your way there.
us paying for the crimes of others is not fair. think about that while thinking about this trial.
Amen. The only people who want pain medications removed from the market are people who don’t have to live with pain 24/7/365. I’d like to see those people live one hour of my life. They’d be screaming in the ER within five minutes–and that’s with pain medications of which I’m sure the poster disapproves.
If a teenager or anyone else decides to use medications unlawfully and/or dangerously so be it. Let them destroy their bodies and brains and futures if that’s what they wish. As long as I’m not paying to feed and house them I couldn’t care less. But for Pete’s sake don’t condemn me and others with major spinal issues to life in excruciating pain because idiots are, well, idiots.
There are other newer, better, safer treatments and medication delivery methods for severe cronic pain than Oxycontin.
Unc, that site is replete with junk science.
It is embarrassing that people on the right will give it the time of day, much less recite from it.
Look under the hood. Follow the links. Research that crap.
And, sos you know, I favor decriminalizing SOME drugs. Prohibition NEVER works. EVER in the history of the world. And I drink scotch (well, and pretty much everything else). So there.
Depends on how it is used. You are right, of course, about any direct influence it might have had on the behavior of Martin. Total barking up the wrong tree there.
But its use does not exactly support the “innocent child” BS of the State.
Who uses street drugs? Well, lots of people, but not “innocent children”. Possession is a crime, as we all know. “What else were we not told?”, the jurors might ask.
I look for it to be clarified for any retrial, and to play a role.
But O’Mara adopted a deliberate of strategy of not attacking TM’s character or motivations based on trial evidence. He started off by apologizing which was a mistake.
Obviously he and West are afraid of being assassinated and for their familys safety too.
TM’s motivation to attack GZ was that TM was the “no limit ni**a”, a thug. That didn’t get into evidence but what DID get into evidence was Jeantel putting the words “creepy ass cracker” into Tm’s mouth. Direct evidence of TM’s racial animus towards GZ. But O’Mara deliberately ran away from that, when in closing he said “Teenagers say things, it’s meaningless.”
It’s not meaningless and MOM knew it isn’t meaningless, it goes to the heart of why this all occurred.
But MOM didn’t want to be accused of being responsible for race riots and he didn’t want himself, West, and their families assassinated so unfortunately despite being a great lawyer his courage faltered. He didn’t do it because of fear. He himself said this is a bizarro trial. It’s bizarro because the person who was doing the racial profiling, as based on the evidence of his own words from Jeantel, is falsely portrayed as the victim of [racial]”profiling.”
The “child” was a sociopath, someone who could murder someone who was looking at him the wrong way while coming back home from the store with his snack in his pocket, and do it without a second thought.
That’s the “NO LIMIT NI**A” mentality at work. “NO LIMIT” to what he is willing to do. No limitations on his behavior. Guns, drugs, racism against whites, fighting, murder.
NO LIMIT, indeed.
That makes sense. If there is a retrial I hope all that comes out plus TM’s suspension from school, the text messages/photos, etc. It would make for a very different trial.
State wouldn’t say racial profiling, but just profiling, and then all their allusions were to racial profiling. They were saying it without saying it.
For the record: “racial profiling” is a Color of Law offense that only law enforcement can commit. GZ wasn’t a law enforcement officer.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law
Marco, defense attorneys know they have to walk a fine line when attacking the victim (look at what happened to that strategy in the Jodi Arias trial). Unless the defense has really strong evidence to support bad character, they tend to walk gingerly in those areas. If the judge had admitted Trayvon’s devastating texts, that would have been a different circumstance — but I think all that she allowed in from the recovered deleted phone files to be shown to the jury was that shirtless photo showing his musculature.
RJ also testified that TM called GZ a “Nig..r” as in “Shit the nigga” following me or behind me.
Maybe GZ did not walk back to his vehicle. Maybe he walked down the street opposite the T and walked through the first break in the houses and came back onto the dog walk/side walk area and started walking back up to the T.
Even if he did… NONE OF THAT IS ILLEGAL.
GZ’s flashlight was dropped at the T intersection. I think that TM did immediately hide in the bushes several houses away from the T intersection. He probably saw GZ walk past the T and was waiting for him (lying in wait) to walk back through. Or the “nigga behind me” was just RJ’s made up testimony.
All the same I suspect that TM watched GZ walk back to the T intersection to head back to his car. RJ was egging him on to go fight so TM walked up to GZ and confronted him.
My thoughts on the time line are that it took Jennifer Lauer longer than 30 seconds from the sounds of the scuffling (GZ nose already broken…he is staggering, dazed, dizzy [says the victim of two/three broken noses (swimming pool dive in the shallow end & fall down stairs and one pulled punch boxing jab that just brushed the tip of my nose] to when the 911 call connected.
GZ is already screaming for help by the time the 911 call begins at 7:16:11. I think he was already screaming for help before Lauer calls.
No offense to Jennifer Lauer but would you call 911 at the sound of scuffling especially if you thought it was just a bunch of kids. Lauer testified that she walked over to her stairs away from the window to call 911 because she thought it was kids and did not want them to hear her snitching on them.
I think the fight went on for longer than scuffling before they called 911. Would you run into the kitchen to find a knife or some weapon to arm yourself before going outside to break up a fight with some kids that sounds like shoes on a basketball court?
I think there were GZ’s yells for help that prompted them to call 911 and “arm” themselves.
Human nature being what it is…
Whilst I can understand the reasons why tox report hasn’t been brought to the evidence, I’m really confused why MOM decided to soften TMs character, instead of at least neutrally describing GZ’s experience that he was angry, foul-mouthed and eventually physically aggressive. That it was Tracy Martin, Rachel Jeantel who actually lied under oath, but again MOM tried to excuse RJ (that she never really wanted to have anything to do with it) and never pursued exposing the fact that TM’s father clearly lied under oath.
I just explained it. FEAR. MOM didn’t want to say what needed to be said to tie the defense all together because of what was and is happening outside the courtroom.
MOM couldn’t address TM’s motives because that would force the jury and the world to honestly confront a direct reversal of the MSM and prosecution’s narrative. The racist in the equation is TM, not GZ. As proven by TM’s own words, in evidence via Jeantel: “creepy ass cracker.” That’s racist on its face. Anti-white, racist animus.
MOM erred by running away from it, by expressly telling the jury that the phrase “creepy ass cracker” didn’t matter, it’s just something teenagers do.
That’s bull. That’s b.s. It does matter. It shows what TM’s state of mind towards GZ was right before TM assaulted TM. It was a racially-motivated “wilding” attack by a young thug, someone who the excluded evidence proves was undoubtedly a sociopathic thug, so sociolpathic that he could call his girlfriend and discuss the attempted murder he was about to commit on his way home from the store to get a candy snack.
Got your previous reply and now clear point “fear”, thanks. It sucks, of course, that defence attorney’s argument is that affected by fear. I mean, the whole “race situation”, not just this case, sucks big time.
And just look at what happened after the trial ended. Joint news conference by Seminole sheriff and police chief, letting everyone know that if anyone’s thinking of rioting, the police will be ready for it.
Now just which part of the community did they feel the need to direct that at?
Caucasians?
Hispanics?
Hispanic Caucasians?
I actually think that the law enforcement news conference was in itself racist and offensive because the clear inference was they FEARED rioting or public disturbance from the BLACK community, isn’t it? Which is in itself a racist expectation.
They had to beat around the bush of course but that’s clearly what was happening.
I’m not afraid because I live 1000 miles away. I wouldn’t really be afraid of riots either since this is clearly a media and DOJ driven event. (32 media and only 19 protesters outside the courtroom.)
If I was Omara and west however I’d be scared spitless for myself and family because there ARE anti-white “no limit” racially motivated loons who WILL take a potshot at them and their loved ones.
Omara really shouldn’t have shown any sympathy for TM at all in the courtroom since it’s cognitively dissonant with the defense theory of justifiable self-defense by GZ. But Omara felt he had no choice because of what is going on OUTSIDE the courtroom, and perhaps, to some extent, he feels his jurors are irrational.
“Going Ape” is what they call it when the cameras are off
Is there a video of the summations to the jury?
Bottom of this post https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-closing-analysis-omara-no-evidence-of-guilt-guy-martin-deserves-the-truth/
I find it interesting that all the major players in this drama are Democrats (I think West is but I’m not sure)
Angela Corey is Republican.
I wasn’t even thinking about her but that is astounding. Her behavior was despicable.
Angela Corey is EVIL !!
The Governor who sent in the Special Prosecutor is Republican. So his his Attorney General. So is Corey.
as if there is any difference between Democrat and Republican politicians anymore…
Whatever happened with the so called investigation the judge claimed to be making?
@EBL:
Angela Corey is a very typical power-mad, politically motivated prosecutor. No different than Nifong, no different than the vast majority of career prosecutors who want to use the collection of “scalps” (conviction whether just or not) to advance their careers.
The only difference in a case like this one is how much the light of public scrutiny and media attention shines brightly on their conduct. If they are too arrogant and piss off the wrong politician then they can jam themselves up because they can attract an equally-or more powerful political adversary who has an agenda (not usually “justice”) to topple them.
You think what Corey and Nifong do as exposed in these very public cases is atypical or unusual?
It’s not. It’s par for the course. If it wasn’t so natural, so standard, it wouldn’t be so easy for them to do.
This crap is pulled on indigent defendants ALL THE TIME.
Because there is nothing they can do about it other than to perhaps have their attorney use it as a basis to cop a slightly less onerous plea deal than they were initially offered.
It all gets buried usually. The system grinds defendants down down down.
If you are a middle class or indigent defendant facing 20 years in the slammer on a constitutionally defective arrest and don’t have the tens of thousands of dollars to litigate, maybe hundreds of thousands, and don’t want to take a chance of wasting your life away in the slammer, you have no choice. You cop the plea to 6 months county time and five years probation.
In the interest of being objective, Corey and Nifong are very different, in fact.
If you look carefully at Nifong’s abuses, they were amazingly flagrant, and his career was never one that saw much approval by his peers, if memory serves.
Corey HAS been very well regarded…in the past. Her abuses…and they appear to be many…are a lot more subtle.
I dunno that Nifong was ever considered an effective trial advocate. Corey has and still is.
I personally doubt you will ever have the satisfaction of seeing Corey really pay for her abuses, based on what I have seen in the legal profession by why of self-policing.
Agreed. Nifong bungled his corruption. He got caught because he was an amateur, and also not the sharpest knife in the drawer, not even for Durham. In contrast, Corey has much more power and skill.
They are equal only in their malevolence and ambition.
Excellent, thumbs up comment. Nevertheless, I confess to a feeling that it is too bad that those with sufficient assets are able to skate because of constitutionally defective arrests, when poorer defendants cannot. I entered law school in 1966, when many were skeptical about the wisdom of the new Miranda decision, and I continue to hold that skepticism. In my mind more equal justice in this regard would be for no defendants to walk because of constitutionally defective arrests.
Yeah, I’ve written on that myself. Police who abuse rights should be punished, not the larger society.
But does anybody listen…??? Noooooo…
Jeantel was brought up in earlier posts, and there is a question I have asked a few times, but have not received a response other than quips about the judge or RJ.
RJ stated she knew TM was not going to get into a fight b/c he would have ceased his conversation w/her. West was just starting to question her about “how” she knows TM would have hung up the phone (i believe) before JDN sustained the prosecution’s objestion.
It seems paramount that either side can try to ascertain “how” a particular witness gained that knowledge. For example, Good stated than TM was on top, and I believe both lawyers asked him how he knew, and Good simply stated I saw the hoodie on top and red jacket on bottom.
My assumption is that West was either going to draw out his previous fighting, or get RJ to admit she doesn’t know. On what legal grounds was West denied this line of questioning?
It’s important to understand that Jeantel is a proven liar.
When a liar is testifying especially when she is a hostile witness, it’s difficult to get affirmative evidence of anything out of them by cross-examination. They will continue to evade, twist, turn, prevaricate, obfuscate, modify, on the witness stand and you end up with a murky mess. Exactly like Jeantel.
When you have a liar you aren’t trying to ask the jury to believe ANYTHING she says except that which you do not wish to dispute out of what she has said.
You address this by telling the jury in closing, “Jeantel is a proven liar. I don’t care that she’s a teenage girl. She knows right from wrong. She never called the police. She admitted that she’s lied about some things and gave rather lame excuses.
One thing that you CAN believe is what she forgot to lie about. She admitted that TM called GZ a “creepy ass cracker,” clearly an anti-white racial epithet, because she didn’t realize she had to lie about that too. In her world, in TM’s world, there’s no such thing as anti-white racism. Even on the witness stand she didn’t believe cracker is a racist word. That’s because in her world, in TM’s world, racism only goes one way. So she told the truth about that, because she didn’t understand the implications of what she was saying.
But everything else she said, you have to assume is an utter lie. If it was the truth she would have gone straight to the police and told them about it.”
“On what legal grounds was West denied this line of questioning?”
Hearsay? Speculation? Beyond scope of testimony?
All three?
Actually, not one of those. She was freely offering hearsay. Nothing she reported Martin saying, or having said, was speculation, and it was all within the scope of her testimony, seems to me.
Her entire time on the stand was surreal, including the judge’s protection of her, IMNHO.
Is the defense animation used in closing available anywhere? I would love to see it.
I’d like to see the fully-animated version before Nelson ruled and they went to partial stills.
George took the beating till his last hope turned and went back into his home – yes, to call 911 but did George know that?
True, but it didnt matter if GZ knew he was calling 911 or not.Zimmerman had already called 911. He needed help right then with tradmark, not with calling the police.
Yes, as the saying goes: “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
With a grain of salt:
Reports from HLN that 3 jurors were crying during Guy’s closing.
Tears of silent laughter… tears from biting their tongue…
I don’t find that either…
1. remarkable, or
2. disturbing
Guy was jerking (emphasis on ‘JERK’) tears.
Any one of those ladies with teenage children could readily have a, “There but for the grace of God…” moment. Maybe one or more has/had a wild chile, and was reliving some dark moments.
Is that bad for the defense? Could easily be GOOD for the defense. Some of those ladies may know in DeeDee. They may know a Martin.
And you can mourn the loss of a human being, while knowing they were killed doing the wrong thing. When parents put their children in the ground because they were driving drunk, I can shed a tear with them without excusing the behavior.
That’s HLN rooting for a conviction against an innocent man
It’s a real coven over there, heading up by the raving loon, Nancy Grace
Or as we refer to her: Nazi Grace. A despicable person, who constantly distorts and twists the truth. He entire career, as prosecutor and broadcaster has been filled with misconducts of various kind (cited twice by the Supreme Court of Georgia, who cited her in one case for demonstrating “her disregard of the notions of due process and fairness,” and for knowingly using testimony from a detective she knew was false.
To call her a dishonest bitch would be a mild kindness.
Agree about Grace but some of the morning and afternoon coverage is not bad especially when Ryan Smith and Joe Jackson are anchoring the shows as was the case this morning.
There have been many commentators during the day who are on GZ’s side.
At night, it’s a witch hunt.
I only tune in when nothing is else is available on any other channel.
And I thought it was an interesting observation.
The jurors could be in fear of retribution and crying at state’s rebuttal could signal “I’m one of the good guys, please don’t target me, my family, my dwelling or residence.” I think the jurors want to signal sympathy to the Martin/Fulton family to protect themselves. But I am cynical.
Also keep in mind that ‘wiping tears from their eyes’ could easily be something like an itchy eye or perhaps a contact lens that is getting dry. These reporters were searching for what they wanted to see.
I’d be crying that Guy and the prosecution had made such a mockery of the judicial system by attempting to take away man’s liberty with nothing more than what the state had. Screaming f’n punks and F’n assholes does not a depraved mind make or we are a nation of depraved minds…ooops, asked and answered.
Regarding the marijuana in Martin’s system issue. My belief is that the defense never intended to use that evidence because for the marijuana usage to be legally relevant an expert would have to testify about the likely effect of the THC level on a person’s behavior. Its doubtful an expert would say the THC would make the person more aggressive; in any case such an opinion would have been challenged by a prosecution expert and the trial would have gone off on a tangent. I think the defense raised the issue hoping to get shut down by the judge, thereby setting up an appellate issue.
Or in legal terms the fact that someone involved in such an altercation may have had some marijuana in their bloodstream is simply not “probative” of any relevant fact.
It doesn’t prove he was more violent or less violent that night. It doesn’t prove he was prone to violence. It doesn’t prove who attacked who. It doesn’t make it more probable or less probable that GZ used justifiable force in self-defense.
There are aggressive people who smoke marijuana and those who don’t. Their are peaceful people who smoke marijuana and those who don’t. There is no proof one way or the other as to which category TM might have fallen into or what surrounding circumstances that night might have made marijuana consumption probative of any issue in the case.
Listen, if M’OM wasn’t prepared to jump all over “creepy ass cracker”–if he was willing to give TM a pass for that, which he in fact did–then it’s sort of pointless to worry about marijuana.
this is were TM cell phone pictures an text would have done justice imo .
29 yrs in substance abuse treatment here.
Marijuana, like alcohol, and depending on dosage, is a disinhibiter. It doesn’t cause aggression per se, but lowers the capacity for restraint of someone who is already aggressive by history. In other words, while straight/sober, the aggressive person is able to keep a lid on it, but give him one drink, one joint, one bowl too many, and that control begins to slip. Who among us doesn’t have a anecdote about some crazy thing we did while high and/or drunk, that is, while our usual ability to control impulses to do/say stupid things was disinhibited by an intoxicant? It is a societal/cultural cliché – the meek employee who gets drunk at the office party and tells off his boss, etc.
Marco is correct in that it is irrelevant because nothing in human behavior, sober or high, is 100% consistent and predictable. General truisms about the disinhibitive effects of marijuana do not constitute specific evidence of anything concerning TM on the night in question. Besides, his THC levels were not remarkable, indicative more of residual presence than current intoxication.
Um, I meant 29 yrs *providing* substance abuse treatment, not receiving it.
Thank God you clarified that. I was wondering how in the world it could take 29 years to cure someone of substance abuse. 🙂
…still crazy, after all these years…
Excluding phone/social media also took lean/purple drank/sizzurp off the table, and that negatively impacts its users quickly. If there is a hung jury and the state decides to retry, it will give defense more time to authenticate and analyze the social media and phone records and call expert witnesses and then the reasonableness of GZ’s perceptions will get him definitively acquitted the next time.
I truly hope that it doesn’t come down to that and a re-trial. The issue and argument has been self-defense as written and defined by Fla. There should not be any asterisks and/or exceptions. If the legislature wants to amend the current law, they can do it once Zimmerman is found not guilty on all charges.
It seems a complete travesty to me that this jury deliberates the fate of George Zimmerman while having a completely FALSE perception as to who Trayvon Martin really was. I just cannot get over the unfairness of it.
I completely agree with you.
One reason for our appeal process.
Yes, but George will be in jail while that progresses for who knows how long. And someone with a cop-wanna-be reputation who murdered a black kid will have no safe place to hide.
“I just cannot get over the unfairness of it.”
Good! Don’t!!!
At least MOM alluded to what we don’t know about TM in his close. He kept it just on this side of the line so as not to get slapped by a state objection or judge reprimand.
Where was the national media when this crime occurred? Where were the calls for justice from the national media?
Would the national media have even noticed had Zimmerman been murdered?
http://www.knoxnews.com/videos/detail/chipman-murders-channon-christian-chris-newsom/
It amazes me that Guy’s final closing was essentially justa polished refinement of the basic arguments put forth in March 2012 that this child had died and somebody needed to pay the price. No mention of any evidence or proof that a crime was committed, but George Zimmerman has to price.
And then so many of the talking heads say how great they think his closing was. Even many of the legal types. To them it was great because the prosecutor, through his oratory skills, may have convinced the jury to vote based on their emotions and ignore the evidence. It is strange the way we view success in our justice system at times.
The truly screwed up component to what you say is the actual price that he may have to pay. The price for 1) Manslaughter of a 2) child using a 3) firearm is a mandatory minimum 25 years sentence, with the possibility of life although I don’t believe Nelson would do that. I can see why Florida has that as a penalty, but I cannot support that high of a price in this case, no way. George is in a very bad place right now…
Oh well, the reporters tweeted that George and his family were smiling in court this morning. Hopefully they will have a great day!
I thought Guy’s closing stunk. Not only did he blather without adequate facts, adding in inappropriate and misleading hyperbole and flat-out inaccuracy, but also his voice had that faux dreamy, oily tonal quality of insincere drip.
Did you mean, “…AN insincere drip”, cause I totally concur!
The reason to not attack Martin’s character is simple: It does not matter if Martin saved 33 nuns from a burning building and then gave a kitten mouth-to-mouth to revive it the day before. All that matters is those couple of minutes between when Zimmerman first saw him and when he was shot.
If Trayvon’s character doesn’t matter, then why did the State fight so hard to create a false one, while keeping his true character out of the courtroom? Of course his character matters.
The state fought hard to create one impression because they’ve been arguing a basically fact-free case. Likewise, it doesn’t matter if Zimmerman is the one who set the fire to the nun’s convent and kicked the kitten; all that matters is that brief time frame. Anything else muddies the water.
Since the prosecution alleged or seemed to allege that Zimmerman provoked this incident, evidence of TM glorifying fighting would seem probative. Since Zimmerman had a broken or near broken nose, evidence that TM bragged about knowing how to break someone’s nose is also probative.
If the state is arguing that GZ misperceived an innocent black kid–notice the state is totally ignoring GZ’s reports of suspicious behavior in the NEN call(s)–then doesn’t that open the door to exploring whether his perceptions and intuitions were justified? Maybe GZ was right.
I’m afraid of calling 911 now, because it might be used against me. This case is utterly disgusting.
You attack Martin’s character because at least in his rebuttal closing argument Guy brought it into issue (which was inevitable and points out Nelson’s error in excluding the cell phone evidence).
By repeatedly referring to TM as a “child” the clear implication is that he was an “innocent” child. TM’s age is obviously completely irrelevant to what did or did not happen; he was not a child “of tender years”, like a three or five year old; he was a 17 year old physically adult “juvenile.” Child only in the sense of being under 18 years of age, but not a child physically.
Linda Blair was a child in the Exorcist right? Does that mean she wasn’t possessed by Satan?
No it doesn’t does it. Being a child doesn’t mean squat in terms of innocence, children can be some of the most sociopathic people they are.
In fact that’s the sociological angle of the young black wilding male w/o a strong present male role model, right in a nutshell.
They are children who grow up to be physical adults but never develop morally or ethically beyond an infant’s sense of morality which is no sense of morality other than “I want it and I will take it and I will beat the crap out of you if you don’t let me have my way.”
And that’s how you get TM’s self-appellation as “NO LIMIT NI**A.”
No limits at all. No moral limits, no ethical limits, no limits on his BEHAVIOR.
Cause that’s how his family and community raised him, just like all the other “NO LIMIT NI**A”s that are wandering out there in the dead of night and cause it to be necessary to have neighborhood watches.
If you can’t present evidence, like the text messages, you have a good chance of getting blowback. Also, O’Mara was very forceful in countering the unarmed little teen idea (cardboard cutouts, concrete), and also completely demolishing the idea of GZ as a violent wannabe cop.
I’m not going to second guess them or call them cowards or spineless because they didn’t break out the righteous indignation. Trayvon is not on trial here, GZ is, and all O’Mara needs to do is create reasonable doubt. He set it up with the argument for “factual innocence”, and then offered reasonable doubt as the compromise verdict.
Great comment.
Agree 100 %.
After more than a decade working with thousands of kids I KNOW some are just plain evil and it shows even as young as 5 or 6 years old.
I taught in one school for 10 years and saw kids develop from 5 to 13. In most cases if they were a nightmare in kindergarten they were worse by grade 8.
It seldom seemed to work the other way.
(Just my experience)
And Trayvon was NOT a child.
If TM was the type of person to save 33 nuns and give a kitten mouth to mouth he would not have done what he did on Feb. 26, 2012 nor have had the type of texts/photos that were found on his phone, nor have been suspended from school, etc. All that matters is what happened in those two minutes? Really?
It matters because normal, nice boys don’t lie in wait to sneak up on and punch out strangers. Normal nice boys who are actually concerned (“scared”) about being “followed” by a “creep” at a time when they are not in imminent danger, would just go home and, perhaps, report the matter to their parents.
This has been a fascinating story. It is distressing to see the moral slide of our system of government. I believe it will require great effort to restore honor and integrity to the legal system, it seems that justice has been thrown under the bus in favor of political outcomes.
Just a lil’ historical vignette…the Erps had to stand before a court to justify the OK Coral killings, and to retain a very talented defender to boot.
This really isn’t new.
Wonder what would have have happened to them now if brought to trial now:
BDLR: Mr. Earp are you trying to tell this jury you frequently referred to Ike and Billy Clanton as rustlers, pimps, and desperadoes, but held no ill will for them prior to the shooting?
..
Look up the accounts of the hearing. That was pretty much what was said.
That was not the only time Wyatt had to answer to a court, either.
(A LITTLE COMIC RELIEF, or another Government Agency fail)
Note to NSTB: Choose your Summer Interns a bit more carefully.
A few years ago I had a case that involved the NTSB. The first 5 years of that case were essentially my client, and one other client, against the NTSB. While the NTSB is not exactly like the Angela Corey operation, there are some similarities. The public has a false image of the NTSB as a neutral fact finder. It has its own political agenda, and that agenda affects its “investigations”.
this is off the threat . Funny as ____..Study those names for a second an sound them out . Which the TV station didn’t LOL
About the only reason to use it would be to back up the observation Zimmerman made that the kid was acting strangely.
And yeah, MOM gave Trayvon a pass on his racism when he was clearly using those words to gin up some animus and justification for what he was about to do.
This should have gone under the marijuana post above. I thought when I signed in it would give me a reply box because that is what I clicked.
Since GZ is not an expert witness there would have to be a little bit more though, not just the way he subjectively thought TM was acting.
You can say things like “he smelled of marijuana smoke on his breath” “he had bloodshot eyes” “he was staggering” etc.
Also since GZ wasn’t testifying it wouldn’t be relevant anyway. His pre-trial statements come in through the prosecution witnesses but that in itself doesn’t give the defense the right to offer evidence that TM was smoking marijuana or if so what does it prove?
I think all these problems are because MOM didn’t want to connect the obvious dots: TM didn’t attack GZ because TM was high on marijuana. TM attacked GZ because he had racial animus against white Hispanics and like most other sociopaths got offended when someone looked at him the “wrong” way.
BTW, how many settlements is Florida dead set on paying? The IT guy is about to get a huge one and they already have the police chief and others in the hopper.
I just wanted to say that I think the Jury leaving deliberations at 6pm last night was a good thing. Yesterday the state tried to use pure emotion to convict. Indeed, some reports show that maybe one to three jurors had been crying during the states rebuttal.
Going home for the night and starting fresh I think leads to making a better decision. One based on facts and not emotion.
Questions: I wonder if the expert who helped the defense select jury members is optimistic or pessimistic? Did he see jurors cry and did he cringe? Or is that just more MSM hype for their audience? If HLN reported it, why didn’t the others – or did they?
HLN= Hysterical Ladies Network ~ Mark Geragos
and he said that on CNN which own HLN
Several of the jurors or their husbands have CCW permits
A guilty verdict would just say that when you’re attacked by a young black male( the majority of attackers in Florida), you have no right to defend yourself
Why put racist statements in front of everyone on a Saturday morning? There is a designated protest area in front of the courthouse with plenty of room for you.
DriveBy, I don’t see anything “racist” with what TexasJew typed. Please don’t speak for “everyone”. I would rather you point out where TexasJew is wrong? I noticed you didn’t attempt that.
Very argumentative post, and a pitiful attempt at twisting of my words. I did not speak for everyone, you know that. I spoke for my self. I asked a question to the TexasJew.
BTW, if he did not include a link to document his racist statement, there is no need for me post one to refute his nonsense. But, I guess it would be a good idea for all of us to watch out for “a young black male (the majority of attackers in Florida)” whenever we venture out after this case if George is convicted, because they are always going to try to beat us up or something. I don’t know.
If you’re claiming his statement that the majority of crimes against persons and property in Florida are committed by blacks is racist, the verifying statistics are easy to find: just google for crime statistics by race in Florida.
You can even narrow it down to Stanford, and see how disproportionately high the black crime rate is there.
And of the 15 or so crimes committed at Zimmerman’s residential complex, at least 14 of the culprits were black.
If facts equal racism, so be it.
DB, would you mind clarifying exactly what you thought was racist about his statement?
Good morning Tex! Sure, declaring that if George is not convicted that “young blacks” will be free to attack (presumably) whites and Hispanics is racist, IMO. Because why wouldn’t “young whites” and “young Hispanics” and “young Asians” and “young American Indians” etc… also be included in the declarative statement? Wouldn’t they also be just as free to attack? Don’t those ethnicities also commit assaults in Florida?
It doesn’t matter, this morning the Board is going full out in trashing Trayvon and blacks, most here right now enjoy that sort of thing, it appears.
I am in no way defending what Trayvon did to George, but Trayvon is freakin’ dead! We had a trial and now we just have to wait for a verdict. Trashing the dead is not going to change a thing.
“Wouldn’t they also be just as free to attack? Don’t those ethnicities also commit assaults in Florida?”
No. And yes. Respectively.
Those other racial groups (not ethnicities) do not have the Holder Racial Justice Dept. and the highly tuned racial umbrage machine behind them to the extent we’ve seen it in play here, do they?
I tend to agree with your point about trashing Martin here today. But the point TexJew was making is simply apparent, and utterly justified as an opinion based on empirical facts, not racism at all.
Who are you more likely to be victimized by? Who are other black Americans more likely to be victimized by?
What role does excusing…or even culturally glorifying…this kind of behavior play in its prevalence?
Thats a pretty racist statement Driveby. Kinda shocked that you would say such a thing. Why do you hate black people?
You are making the claim that everyone has an equal propensity to commit violence. The statistics do not back you up. TexasJew dealt with reality and you gave us a false utopia. I’m not mad at you though.
Of course all races commit crimes. That’s obvious. But black America is a special problem. First of all, blacks prey on other blacks much more than they do on any other race. 93% of the blacks murdered in this country are murdered by other blacks.
However, the President and his Attorney General have made it quite clear that blacks should be treated differently – a special class that can never be accused of racism and whose negative behavior should be excused or explained away.
That should concern anyone, regardless of their color, who seeks a color blind just society. It should especially concern blacks, because they are the primary victims of black crime.
To answer your question directly, perhaps the other races would read the trial as a signal for open season on law abiding citizens, but surely black criminals would recognize it as such? After all, the entire fabric of this trial is racism through the lens of “white privilege”.
If I, as a CHL holder, now have to worry MORE if I’m attacked by a black person than any other race about the consequences of my actions, doesn’t that endanger me? Hesitation in a life threatening situation can be deadly.
“Trashing the dead” might actually do some good if we stop pretending TM was some sweet innocent little child with a bag of skittles and a can of soda pop. TM was a large young man (height if not weight) in serious trouble in his life. He was so out of control that his own mother kicked him out of the house weeks before he was sent to live with his father. (Cry those big tears SF you lost your sweet little boy long before 2/26/12.)
Maybe we should speak the truth of exactly what TM was doing in his life. We should speak the truth of the wrong roads he was heading down. We should speak the truth of SFs lost ability to parent him anymore (if she ever had any).
We need to speak these truths so we can stop more Trayvons from ending up going down those same bad roads and ending up just as dead, or in prison.
We need to speak these truths about TM so we can stop raising generations of people who are NOT contributing members of society but drains upon all of society.
They don’t have to be filling prisons to be drains on society. Think about the inability to contribute to society by someone who cannot read or write cursive or even speak Engish.
They’re already free to attack. Black-on-white assaults for the “fun of it” have become rampant in this country. Many of the black culture are taught from the cradle to hate whitey. The other races are not taught this, although they are frequently victims of black crime and violence, too.
That’s why blacks are different. That’s why they commit about 85% of the truly violent crime in this country and comprise 62% of prison population, yet only represent about 12% of the total population.
It’s a behavior about 80% of blacks learn from birth, either by verbal instruction and/or example as part of their culture. Deal with it.
Designated protest areas? Yeah, No. No more than a few will show.
Now if they set up some designated penalty-free loot zones, there’d be a crowd.
it’s so sad to see how most of you guys think black people are monsters.drug use and all..white kids also do drugs and act just like black kids nowadays.i bet one of you guys kids smoke weed, or does coke,or heroine and listen to rap music and sags his pant..lets stop this stupidity..Someone said he was ready to make trayvons…’really?’..i hope you don’t have kids because that might happen to u also…this is ridiculous..its 2013…grow up guys.
@itzchuck:
Who said anyone thinks most blacks are racist monsters????
Going by the trial evidence, “creepy ass cracker” is an obvious racist, anti-white statement which Jeantel attributed to TM immediately before he attacked GZ.
Why yes it IS 2013. Any harsh words for Sharpton, Jackson, and all the other race-baiters who made this case all about pigmentation?
The racial nostalgia leaders like Sharpton have been trying to turn back the clock to 1968 for the better part of fifty years now.
if anyone here did that they are as much a dumbass as the kids they are emulating.
who cares what color they are?
seems only you do.
Black people are not monsters, and I doubt the majority of the commenters here think so. In fact, do you even know the color of the skin of any of us?
But let’s be honest, if not to the rest of the world, at least to yourself:
Who makes the most noise FOR the black community?
Isn’t it :
1- Hip hop stars glorifying violence, drugs, prostitution and the “easy life”?
2- Race baiters like al sharpton, jesse Jackson, the black panthers…?
Think about it. There’s a portion of the black community that is coming forward and making a lot of noise, for what? For a POS like trayvon martin?
Let’s be honest about it.
Do you want trayvon martin to be a role model for your children?
Do you want your kids to use drugs?
Do you want your kids to be the kind that gets suspended three times in just one school year?
Do you want your kids to be the kind that gets caught with stolen property?
Do you want your kids to be engaged in street fighting?
Buying guns?
All of that was not admitted as evidence for the jury, but we are not jurors on that trial.
I know for a fact that these people are not the majority, but they certainly make the most noise. They take the leadership and for all practical matters become the perceived poster figures for an entire community.
Why is the entirety of the black community allowing these scum individuals to become their poster figures?
Let’s be honest. Be brave, be honest.
With all that said, I am NOT white nor black. Right in the middle, if you can understand.
True. Its the Black Culture, not the Black Race. We have lots of Africans in our community (mostly Somali) and none of them behave like “no limit niggas”
They’re not. But just like the Muslim community, when they DO speak out they are shunned, insulted and threatened. (Bill Cosby is just one example. There are many others.)
Anyone who espouses view opposite the accepted view are called Uncle Tom’s. We should celebrate those brave souls who break out of the community and speak out against it.
Allen West, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Rev. C L Bryant, Dr. Benjamin Carson, Mia Love, Artur Davis, Tim Scott, Wayne Dupree, Condoleeza Rice, Alveda King, Star Parker. The list is lengthy. You see less of them because the media hates them and tries to hide them because they put the lie to the popular progressive memes about what a “true” black person is.
True. Some white kids do act ‘ just like SOME black kids ‘, but we’re not talking about ‘ all black kids’. Just the thug kind, and there are thug white kids as well.
guy started his closing with a heavy southern accent, sounding like a preacher, then quickly dialed it back. i thought that was so strange. overall i think the closing was so cheesy. i can’t believe there are reports that three jurors were actually crying!
Hard to say. It went from ONE juror crying, to one juror rubbing her eyes, to now THREE jurors crying. By the end of the day maybe CNN will report that all SIX jurors had to be carried back to the jury room on stretchers.
yeah! lol
Cracking up.
Thanks to the kind professor for this forum, I’m a long time reader newly registered.
I see many people are troubled the the defense team did not address the low levels of THC in TM’s bloodstream.
Question:
Doesn’t the jury recieve a copy of the Medical Examiner’s report which would include the toxicology report? The M.E.;s findings are entered into evidence that they may condider in deliberations, right?
Good question.I would like to know the answer too.
From watching the trial I had the understanding that the toxicology report was going to be allowed and entered into evidence but that the defense would not address it in testimony. i.e., it would just be there in the evidence should the jurors choose to look at it.
I don’t know that it was. Often, a document like that is objected to, since the ME was testifying. There are several objections, including that it would be redundant, cumulative, and tend to bolster testimony.
Dunno here.
I’m not certain, but I believe the tox report was entered into evidence.
Now think about what that means. The jurors, if they look at the evidence that was entered but never discussed on the stand (which seems to be the reason that they asked for a list of all the evidence and their descriptions), might look at the tox report. When they see the tox report, the obvious question is why didn’t the defense raise this issue at trial?
The answer? They didn’t think they needed it. Hmmm….
I think what the jurors are doing is going through all the evidence that wasn’t discussed at trial; listening to tapes, reading police reports, reading the tox report, etc., etc. to make sure they are thorough before they return a verdict.
I suspect these jurors have the decency to think that, no matter what his character was, a young man is dead, and he deserves a careful review of the evidence before we reach a verdict.
The Trayvon we know: NO_LIMIT_NIGGA
The Trayvon the jury knows: Cherub-cheeked choir boy who never got to eat his Skittles.
How is this “justice”?
But the jury ALSO heard that TM is an anti-white racist, he called GZ “creepy ass cracker.”
UNFORTUNATELY at least in hindsight MOM chickened out and gave tm a “pass” for being a racially-motivated thug.
But I can’t really blame MOM for chickening out since I wouldn’t want to be an assassination target either.
Yes, you are right Marco. But MOM dismissed that remark to the jury as “just things kids say.” I am bothered by suggestions that MOM would consider personal safety over using all methods to defend his client. MOM signed onto this case knowing all the factors involved, including the racial factors. The State seemed to have no qualms playing fast and loose to win their case.
Well obviously MOM’s excuse for chickening out will be to say that it might have backfired with the jury.
And he could have certainly been equivocal about it.
But completely chickening out, as he did–to not even allow the jury to entertain the possibility that TM was racially motivated to attack GZ WHEN THE STATEMENT WAS IN EVIDENCE THROUGH JEANTEL–has to be PRIMAL FEAR.
The prosecutors could play fast and loose because no one is worried about chubby white hispanics or their law abiding families assassinating them or rioting in the streets if GZ gets convicted.
Oh, c’mon, man. You know MOM didn’t chicken out. It’s his style. His tone never sought to disparage Trademark. It wouldn’t have set well with the jury and would have been over-inflated in relation to the concept of “simple truth” and “facts.” It would have been outside the overall tone of his closing.
Remember how idiotic BDLR sounded when he kept shouting “Fucking punks” and so on? It was a big turnoff after about the third or fourth time. Do you think MOM should have kept barking “Creepy-ass cracker” over and over?
Have you considered the possibility that MOM made a strategic decision to emphasize the contrast between his gentlemanly approach and the prosecution’s attack dog approach?
Do you think that difference went unnoticed by the jurors?
Marco has REALLY gotten emotional about this, to the extent he has become a clinical psychologist and er-rythang.
O’Mara is a craven coward, apparently, for not conducting the trial Marco would have.
I guess a lot of what has been written here shows that people generally can become overwrought.
I think he simply wanted to remind the jury of what Trademark is really about and…..hehehehe…..it’s a reflection on the grifter$. If he’s such a sweet, innocent baby, from whom did he learn that kind of talk?
“the young IT who was fired by Corey for blowing the whistle on dela Rionda”
So it really IS possible to fire a civil servant? Or was he not in a government union? Because generally it seems to cost a million or so, and take a year or two, to fire a slothful or criminal civil servant. Just my impression perhaps.
oops .. that was meant to be a reply to Uncle Samuel
You assume that he is a union member, and that the union would support him in the face of betraying the union leadership’s ideological co-travellers.
The IT guys usually aren’t in a union. And embarrassing the boss is a GREAT way to get people tasked on how to fire you.
Maybe they wanted the evidence list because one of the jurors thought someone testified to TM’s upstanding character? Now they will find no one, not even the parents gave any evidence or were even asked. The closest anyone came was his half brother who admitted that even he wasn’t friends with TM on his social media sites. After several witnesses in essence were character witnesses for George as a juror wouldn’t you wonder why none for TM?
Listen, the jurors all already KNOW that TM was a young black sociopathic thug out at night looking for trouble, even without all the cell phone evidence.
They “get it” just like MOM “gets it,” just like Corey gets it, just like the Martin family and their hanger-on get it. EVERYONE “gets it.”
This is a political show trial. It’s been said many times before but that’s exactly what it is.
It’s not about justice for TM or GZ, in any case TM already got all the “justice” he was ever entitled to.
GZ is a pawn.
The jurors have to be as fearful for their own lives and safety just as much as the defense attorneys and the Seminole police and sheriff were terrified of the prospect of post-verdict riots by the black thug community enough to actually have a news conference about it yesterday.
So these six women all “get it.” You better believe if anyone of them was confronted alone at night by TM or a similar “NO LIMIT Ni**a” they would be crapping themselves. They wouldn’t be assuming he was an innocent little child, they would be assuming they were about to be robbed, raped, beaten and/or killed.
But they also know if they ARE going to acquit they better take plenty of time before doing it so they can’t be questioned, they at least have to make it seem as if acquittal was a very tough choice.
Depending on their adherence to crazy liberal politics they might convict too despite the cognitive dissonance that none of them would personally be caught dead alone at night with someone like the “NO LIMIT Ni**A.”
The evidence list is a compilation of the physical items of evidence and documents that were admitted, not a list of the witnesses.
I think it was huge that the txt messages weren’t allowed.
When you see in the massages that TM had a fight with a kid in school because the kid ‘snitched’ on him causing him to be suspended, that he busted the kids nose, and lost the first round because he was on the bottom.
Now in this case, GZ was on the phone to the police (snitching about him), TM busted his nose and was now the person on top because he knew how effective that was.
Vital evidence for a jury and hopefully reversible error should an appeal be necessary.
for trayvon it’s all about street cred
So much negative information is finally going to come out about Trayvon I think we will all be amazed. It will now definitely come out. Fortunately Alan Dershowitz is squarely on the side of the defense. He feels the prosecutors should be disbarred. I think they should be in jail.
Everyone in the courtroom and watching the trial from the outside knows TM’s character, based on what was let into evidence but just look at that family & friends (and compare with George Zimmerman).
TM’s family is this obviously dysfunctional broken family. They aren’t even a real family, it’s just a kabuki for the courtroom, the cameras, and public consumption. They are barely–very barely–holding it together.
Look at jeantel. She can’t even speak english coherently. She can’t even write her own letter. She’s an illiterate.
Yet for purposes of the show trial they are desperately trying to pretend to be something they’re not, and to portray TM as something that he’s not and never was.
TM was a pretty typical “wilding” young black male who due to a lack of a coherent family structure and strong and present male role models was never socialized according to generally accepted moral and ethics. His world, the world of Jeantel, is a completely different world. It is the “street”, the “Hood.” He was just visiting one of his father’s eff-buddies and casing one of the homes for a potential rip-off.
He was the self-characterized “NO LIMIT Ni**A” and everyone should understand that to be quite literal and demonstrating a lot of self knowledge on his part.
No limit means exactly that. No limitations from moral, no ethical limitations, no limitations on his behavior.
When a person has “no limits” it means they do whatever the hell they want to do.
This is why guns are necessary in our society. Some people have “no limits” literally no limits and TM was obviously one of those people and self-confessed to it as well.
Well even TM has the limitations imposed by the Grim Reaper.
Jeantel’s twitter pages also revealed a lot about herself…she talks about being a drug user, said dreaded the trial and having to be sober and on her best behavior in order to testify.
Being sober and on her best behavior in the Court, those are good things. It shows responsibility and mature thinking. She really didn’t have to be either one if she is a horrible person, she could have just smoked some pot before the trial and during her breaks – a few eye drops and she is good to go!
I can’t wait for her TV interviews! I hope that she eventually tells us what really happened!
I hope you are right Jack. Phone evidence also had marijuana plants, a hand gun, pics of nude underage girls, and a pic of clumps of jewelry on a bed. The State was allowed to ASSASSINATE the character of george Zimmerman while Baby Trayvon was NOT TO BE TOUCHED OR SMEARED IN ANY WAY! What a joke.
TM was a sociopath, literally. And he himself knew it “NO LIMITs”.
These jurors are going to want to commit suicide if they convict only to find out later on about the “real” TM that was concealed from them during the trial.
TM isn’t an innocent child, he’s every law-abiding person’s nightmare, regardless of race.
Agree. I wondered yesterday about how the jurors are going to feel once they’ve submitted their verdict, gotten out of sequestration and then find out all the Trayvon info the judge withheld from them.
Depending on their verdict I guess they’ll either be relieved or horrified.
Let’s hope it’s the former.
LOLOLOLOL!
“I hope you are right Jack. Phone evidence also had marijuana plants, a hand gun, pics of nude underage girls, and a pic of clumps of jewelry on a bed. The State was allowed to ASSASSINATE the character of george Zimmerman while Baby Trayvon was NOT TO BE TOUCHED OR SMEARED IN ANY WAY! What a joke.”
1) Trayvon smoked some weed = murderer, or maybe just a Florida teenager
2) Trayvon or a friend owned a pistol = murderer, or maybe a gun enthusiast parent owned the pistol and the kids were playing with it
3) Trayvon had photos of nude underage girls = murderer, or maybe a teenager with a girlfriend, and maybe he was event having sex! OMG! You do realize that Trayvon was “underage” at the time, right.
Hey there “driveby”.
Nobody is calling TM a murderer, but yes he was a young thug wannabe and truth be told GZ may have saved some poor sap in the future from being beaten, robbed, or otherwise by him.
Maybe he would have changed, turned his life around, but at the time of his death he was a wannabe gangster and he just picked on the wrong guy that night.
The trial evidence suggests that TM committed 1) aggravated assault possibly rising to the level of 2)attempted homicide, depending upon whether TM’s intent in attacking GZ was only to cause serious brain damage or whether it was to kill him.
David, do you have a link to the text and photos?
A recent example of serious head injury from punching face and striking head on concrete sidewalk. This is the type of injury that GZ reasonably feared.
http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-knocked-unconscious-cracks-skull-racial-slur-article-1.1397834
Could there be a more naked exposure of the corrupt nature of her leadership than this?
Oh, I hope so. I hope that someone is really going to look into the conduct of this case, with an eye to exposing whatever was done that was wrong.
I have grave reservations, since, unlike the Nifong wrongs, Corey has quite a political lineage above her in this matter.
if gz had got out of his truck looking like “The Rock”, or wearing a police uniform, tm would have been home in 30 seconds or less.
“uh-oh — That’s a big ass cracker”
point well taken . TM did stalk Zimmerman . Circled his truck i believe.If Z-man had been larger , stronger no fight instead home !
Your post:
“point well taken . TM did stalk Zimmerman . Circled his truck i believe.If Z-man had been larger , stronger no fight instead home !”
Or I might add: if Z-man had been more intelligent and had more common sense so as to decide NOT to get out of his truck and venture in to the darkness where the stalking teen had gone… no fight, instead home!
or as the state says, “or maybe”, not home,but rape , rob or pillage. maybe
You really need to stop that silly stay in the truck nonsense, DriveBy. In the context of the situation it made sense for him to get out to see what direction TM was going after the operator asked him that question.
I don’t know where you reside now, but assuming it’s a place like the neighborhood complex at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and you lived there with your wife or some other family member, and someone you thought suspicious slipped away into the dark, and you didn’t know where they were headed. You may be on the phone with 911, but you know average response time for police to arrive is ten or fifteen minutes. You going to stay in your car, and not investigate where he’s headed? Just sit there like a punk ass coward and not keep him in view? If something did happen while you were hiding turtle-like in your shell to your own family, or a neighbor, would you pat yourself on the back for remaining there?
You need to get a grip on reality.
The timeless response of the “men with no chests”: “I’m scared to discipline my children for being sociopathic thugs, so everyone else’s children get a pass, too”.
If some of the chicks on the jury are rabid leftist feminists, who think the man is as necessary as a bicycle for a fish, then they may actually not see anything “wrong with this picture.”
They may view TM as the poor little child abused by authority and GZ as the “stern punishing authority figure” and if their hatred of all adult male/role models/father figures/strong husbands come into play they will let that emotional hatred of men affect their verdict.
After the Voir Dire examinations how could you formulate the far-out hypothesis that any of those woman were anywhere close to being leftist-feminists?
You’re slip-sliding away…
Where is “Carol Herman” when you really need her? She’d liven up this vigil.
hehe she’ll get her 4 cents in .
ps: i enjoy reading her ‘Small Blogs.’ lol
Last year in my little Florida town, a white man with his wife & kids in his truck was the victim of an attempted violent carjarcking by another white man. He shot him when he laid hands on his wife to drag her out of the car. Obvious self-defense, no charges laid. If Z is found guilty, it might change the dynamics in that if the attempted violent carjacker were black, you’d think twice about shooting. That’s bad news for law-abiding citizens, and bad news for so-called “post-racial America”.
A law-abiding citizen shouldn’t have to think twice about the amount of melanin in an attacker’s skin before he exercises his lawful right to defend him and his from imminent danger &/or death. But now…?
Martin Luther King Jr weeps.
GZ/TM incident was obvious self-defense too which is why the Sanford police weren’t going to file charges in the first place.
If simply putting hands on the wife allows deadly force then beating head into sidewalk surely allows justifiable use of deadly force.
Corey and the DOJ encouraged public unrest forcing the Sanford police chief out and turned an ordinary self-defense case into a political show trial.
Not me. As Glenn Reynolds says: “If the responsible authorities fail to act, other forms of authority will assert themselves. They may not behave responsibly, but they will act”
ie. getting a clean firearm. If a “no limit” thug comes at me, I’ll empty the clip into him and leave the scene. Let the police sort it out. And fuck the State.
Or as I said somewhere else, if I find home invaders at work in my house, my tractor will be busy that night. Anf their car will be found two miles or more away in a secluded spot.
All these idiot protestors outside who don’t seem to realize that, unless George Zimmerman shot Trayvon, he’d be DEAD for NOT BREAKING THE LAW.
They do realize it.
10 or 15 years from now or whenever they’re retired and pensions are assured and untouchable (unlike the IT guy who just got canned), but them their favorite bottle of scotch way out yonder in the hunting or fishing lodge and have a heart to heart.
They will tell you: “We hated prosecuting that case but the bitch Corey had us by the balls. If we didn’t do as told we’d be out the door too just like the IT guy. And we had wives/kids in college/alimonies/mortgages. Could not afford to start all over.
And they will say: “In reality the only thing Zimmerman did wrong was that he didn’t empty the entire clip into that muthafuckah.”
LOL “protestors” not “prosecutors.”
The protestors realize it too.
If in the same situation as GZ that fateful night they all would have emptied the clip into No Limit’s chest without question.
The only real difference is that they wouldn’t have even gone out that night, they would have realized immediately unlike naive GZ that Tm was a deadly thug and there life was at risk merely by looking at TM the wrong way.
i wonder if the jury can hear the ….no justice, no peace slogan being shouted outside?
I thought they may have been protesting about the bad takeout they got from that Indian restaurant last night:
“No Chutney; No Peas!”
Question for Andrew: I am puzzled as to why bringing up the college professors and transcripts for GM to show his “state of mind” did not open the door to bringing in the school records and texts/more recent photos of TM to show his “state of mind.” This has bothered me all thru’ the trial.
I worry about the 51-year old retired juror. The juror who said that “she has an opinion” but also can keep an “open mind”. Most opinionated people who claim to have an “open mind” really don’t. This juror also said that it was a “good thing” that bias can be considered in this case. If she is on board for manslaughter, I don’t see anyone moving her off of it. Hope I’m wrong though. Just speculating.
There is a scenario I haven’t seen discussed (probably just missed it) … the low THC levels in Trayvon’s blood suggest coming down from a recent high. His Facebook comments suggest he may be hurting for another fix … friend suggests mixing some lean. So Trayvon goes to the store and buys 2 of the ingredients for lean, the 3rd component probably in the home where he’s staying. Perhaps some of the hinky behavior Zimmerman observed was Martin’s withdrawal / agitation. Zimmerman’s presence interferes with Martin’s intent to go home, make some “fire ass lean” and get a new buzz on. Aggressive and demanding behavior is entirely consistent with a drug user desperate to get a fix on.
Nothing that you just said is even remotely factual. And I can help you if you struggle to believe me by pointing to the fact that none of that nonsense was ever testified to in open court.
You should really do some research on things like this before jumping to conclusions.
Goes to “state of mind”, counselor. And it is no more or less “factual” than anything BDLR presented.
Ok, I will try to help. Marijuana is not the same as cocaine or heroin; the two later drugs are highly addictive and users can experience severe withdrawal symptoms:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000949.htm
Marijuana users can experience mild withdrawal symptoms, but it is akin to nicotine withdrawl:
Quote:
“Moreover, the effects of withdrawal symptoms were on par with those of people going through nicotine withdrawal, Allsop said.”
http://www.livescience.com/23494-cannabis-withdrawal-symptoms.html
If you really think nicotine withdrawal is always ‘ mild ‘, you should talk to some friends of mine who have tried and failed to quit smoking.
I never noticed, had either the Skittles or Arizona Watermelon drink been opened?
I think the skittles were for his brother, and he was probably saving his watermelon juice for when he got home so he could brew up some Drank.
Do you have a recipe for the brew? I believe that I read somewhere that it required cocaine. How much cocaine was found in Trayvon’s toxicology report?
goggle it sheepdip
Read up: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/what_the_media_choose_not_to_know_about_trayvon.html
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/
Both are insightful analysis of suppressed evidence about the character and behavior of TM.
DXM won’t show up on a tox report, but abuse of it over time could explain the changes in brain tissue that were observed, and the areas of fatty metamorphosis in the liver.
The THC and THC metabolite levels are consistent with use 12 hours earlier–a “wake and bake.” TM was probably in mild withdrawal and seriously ready for his next high. Hence the shopping for ingredients.
What did he try and buy that the clerk wouldn’t sell him? Cough syrup? (7-11 video footage) – and in the video (not stills) TM evidences the “lean” for which the drink is named.
Drinkers of Purple Drank/Lean/Sizzurp prefer prescription strength codeine cough syrup. TM’s social media gives evidence of both drinking lean and seeking out codeine cough syrup and why. #SoMe evidence begins June 2011.
and if you watched the video of tm in the 7-11, after he makes his purchase and heads for the exit, the clerk walks off and tm doubles back into the store and takes something off a shelf
before actually leaving
Wow! Having now read everything posted here, I have concluded that the longer the jury stays out the more rampant the speculation and the more heightened the anger will become. Some of you guys need to step away, calm down and realize that this is one case in one state and doesn’t represent the entire justice system – not even in Florida.
But to GM, it’s THE MOST IMPORTANT one!
Yeah, in KY, we love our guns and our self defense and our stand your ground and our castle doctrine. If it were here, no way charges would have been brought.
There have been some arguing neighbor shootings. Hint: never set foot on the property of a neighbor with whom you are arguing. Charges never brought because of castle doctrine.
And the vast majority of the time, no charges in such obvious self-defense cases are brought here either.
This one is an outlier (which is why it’s garnering so much media attention) and it’s being driven as much if not more from forces outside Florida than inside it.
So I guess what I’m saying is, if this exact incident happened in Kentucky rather than in Florida, are you really so confident your state apparatus would have been willing and able to withstand the pressure from the Sharptons, Crumps, Jacksons, and even the President of the United States and his Department of Justice?
Them kinda folk avoid Kentucky on account of guys like Hickock45 … who incidentally has a new video out on the SR 1911 CMD. http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45
Ummm… two words: Bowling Green…
Hell, even in Texas, Dallas would VERY likely have this trial going on.
I know, right, tx…?!?!?
Now we are back to that apocryphal BS about “Drank”…the dreaded drug that can’t be found on tox screens (of course it can) and causes lesions on organs (no science supports that), which were found in Martin’s autopsy (no they weren’t).
Sheesh…
(golf clap to tx)
Yeah, it’s always responsible, law-abiding Americans who need to “adjust their attitude”. Well maybe we are just sick and damned tired of it.
Angela Corey: proper noun/singular/neuter
Def: a rat, disguised as a pig, acting like a viper
I was searching for the perfect parody of Ms Corey. I have settled on Mother Gorilla from the classic Looney Tunes episode Apes of Wrath. The one where Bugs is mistakenly delivered to a gorilla couple by a drunken stork.
I can imaginee Special Counsel Corey weilding that rolling pin throughout her office.
However long it takes, and the jury may be pretty close to the verdict they want to give, I hope the first 22 minutes of Mark O’Mara’s “opening of his close” becomes required as a teaching tool. So that everyone (like me) who is less than thrilled at receiving a jury summons … hears out so eloquently why our system is based on picking jurors with the least knowledge of a case. And, those who aren’t going to make assumptions. And, jump to conclusions.
I was once asked if I do any exercise. To which I replied “Yes, I always jump to conclusions.”
Also, if I were in that jury room PRIVILEGED to look at all the evidence in those boxes, you bet, I’d be following Mark O’Mara’s instructions.
Now, for a moment, let’s take a look at the racial bainting whores, and what they threaten. Civil unrest? Let me ask you, in these awful ghettos, what do they manufacture or create, that if they shut themselves down the world would miss their product?
Why is such goofy threats able to frighten half a nation? You and I know this isn’t going to be any “million hoodie march to Washington.” Heck, I don’t even listen to Rush much. But I once heard him deflate Jesse Jackson’s “Million Man March” … when (because he had a TV Show at the time) … posted pictures of spacial emptiness in DC’s park. So, he ventured to say maybe the marchers were hiding up in tree branches?
Whatever happens, happens. We saw a terrible prosecution. Run by a terrible judge, who at best could be described as a Chris Farley imitator.
If you’ve watched the tiral, you’ve come to understand how politics works. Where Jeb Bush, a republican governor, appoints this incompetent woman to the bench. She’s run 3 times since then. Winning a total of 3 terms. Each one six years long. And, against NO opposition! She still collected a lot of money in donations. And, then comes along another republican governor, Rick Scott; and he sees political possibilities in his favor! And, he sees this show trial created. And, dumped into half-nelson’s lap.
The GOP, since it wins contests in Florida, seems to play ball with the nitwits who own the “social issues,” but who do not represent the average Americans.
We seem to be ruled by political extremes. Either on one side, or the other. With absolutely NO TALENT in the judicial pool. Or at our universities.
THE GOOD NEWS: LEGAL INSURRECTION HAS FOUND IT’S FOOTING! Let’s hope when the trial is over, we still come back here to look at the other topics of interest in any given day.
Now that is the Carol Herman I remember from Althouse!
http://theothermccain.com/2013/07/13/protest-riots-to-may-to-to-mah-to/ Let’s call the whole thing off?
Hard enough to fire most government workers w/o very good cause even if they aren’t in a union. South is probably not as bad as much of the rest of the country. The idea was to protect them against political pressure. And, the result is Lois Lerner who appears to have operated illegally and in violation of the US Constitution in two different agencies, pled the 5th Amdt to refuse to testify before Congress, and is on paid administrative leave.
When the prosecution opened the door of GZ mixed martial arts training, it would seem only fair that the door to litigating TM’s background in regards to fighting should also be allowed especially with recent evidence of TM’s social media postings. It is especially grievous with the reported Brady violations by the prosecution regarding hiding of TM’s cell phone data. The judge ruled that TM’s cell phone data could not be authenticated and then did not want to hear any arguments about the defense’s inability to authenticate due to only receiving his cell phone data right before the trial due to Brady violations. At least an objection line in the sand was made by the defence for an appeal if GZ is convicted.
A Question on another matter ??
Does the jury understand the penalty that GZ will face if convicted to the lesser offense of manslaughter ???
No, jury is not permitted to be aware of the significant penalty GZ faces if convicted of manslaughter.
Whether or not, despite being sequestered, they have somehow become aware of that penalty through some source we may never know.
The old England tradition was the jury finding of a minor (misdemeanor) offense for many crimes, knowing that would spare the accused of the hangman’s noose. I know the jury is never told of the sentence range, but they really should be told.
Of course, that was back when most felonies were hanging offenses.
From media accounts(take them with a grain of salt) one of the juror’s husband is a lawyer, another is a wannabe lawyer, another a security guard.
Several have been reported to be CCW (current/former) permit holders. The training in FL while required is not standardized – -but one would assume that penalties associated with manslaughter w/firearm are brought up somewhere in the training discussion.
-That’s my experience and hopefully they have some idea of the consequences of compromising a verdict
I believe that at least one juror will have an idea of what could happen to GZ if he is convicted of manslaughter. That is one reason that I believe that the worst case scenario for GZ is a hung jury.
The 10-20-Life law has recently been in the Florida news, in the months before this trial started, thanks to another trial. I think the average Floridian is at least somewhat likely to be aware that any crime involving a gun is going to involve serious — like in some cases RIDICULOUSLY serious — time.
Plus, NONE of those ladies is unaware that any conviction is a felony, and those are life-changers.
You know what else are felonies… those prosecutors’ Brady violations. Yet here in Florida they can be merely wink-wink affairs within the State Attorney’s Office.
What was the original purpose of having a jury? A judge is more able to tell guilt and innocence.
A jury, to my thinking, is to try the law and it’s application, and that includes the punishment, in order to avoid the horrors seen in England about that time (look up John Law’s conviction). We have drifted away from that.
The function of the jury is to weigh the conflicting evidence and determine what happened–more precisely, to determine the facts to which the judge will apply the law.
There are two parts to any case, the facts and the law. The jury finds the facts and the judge applies the law to those facts.
Bill? Bill is that you, Bill?
Not quite correct. Ever hear of jury nullification? In short, a jury’s duty is to judge the application of the law to the case at stake.
Thank God we have not abandoned juries. That was one gift our Founding Fathers put in the Constitution and preserved.
And fascists hate it.
My take on GZ’s “MMA” style training was that it worked rather brilliantly in portraying him as a softy ineffective fighter. Rather than painting him as having the upper hand on BMI and a strong(dominant over TM) self-defense skill set making his use of the firearm not necessary as most of the media and the prosecution had attempted to.
And no the jury does not know the potential sentences attached to any of the charges
Andrew, my only remaining question is this: Who has standing to file misconduct charges against Angela Corey over the way she has handled this witch hunt? Do you? and if you do, will you?
http://www.floridabar.org
Click on “File a Complaint”
It is not just the bar association, that governs her actions as a lawyer. There must be a judicial prosecutorial panel for those specific complaints (it might be a subsection of the bar, or it might be a state function).
I didn’t follow the aftermath of the Duke Lacrosse trial closely enough to remember what the process was that got the prosecutor in that case, Nifong, disbarred. But to my layperson’s mind, it seems like whoever filed whatever in the case of Nifong, that’s what needs to be done to Corey?
My thoughts too – see below.
I would think that you would at least need to be a Florida resident. GZ and his attorneys would clearly have standing. But I think that when it comes to ethics, other attorneys often have an ethical duty to file a grievance when they knew of an ethical violation, even if not directly involved. The big problem is knowing enough information to put a strong case forward. Defense attorneys do, but likely will decide to do nothing because they need to deal with other state prosecutors in the future.
Be interested in other opinions here.
If the defense attorneys have solid evidence that prosecutors have, in fact, committed Brady violations by withholding exculpatory information from the defense, or by intentionally delaying the disclosure of that information in order to put the defense at a disadvantage, I don’t believe that they will be afraid to file complaints against those prosecutors because they may have to deal with them in a future case.
The real issue is what, if anything, will the Florida Bar do to investigate these complaints, and what, if any, penalty will they impose on the offending prosecutor(s) if the allegations are substantiated?
Zimmerman can also potentially sue for Section 1983 damages/violation of his civil liberties, although Corey may have personal immunity.
An independent, out-of-state, experienced prosecutor should be appointed to investigate Corey’s ethics and handling of this case.
Where do I submit my resume?
Trayvon Martin case fades on the Hill..
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/310807-house-democrats-fall-silent-as-trayvon-martin-trial-goes-to-jury
Jury breaks for lunch. Crazy I would want to deliberate thru lunch. Bring it in, keep going. Maybe the food’s good. Even Tennis said she’s surprised.
There could be a hold out. If so, Let’s hope it is one for conviction and not one for acquittal.
The fact that they broke for lunch tells me they weren’t close enough to having a verdict to forgo lunch. I would expect them to deliberate for at least another hour or two after lunch.
The Left eats their own as Paula Deen and George Zimmerman, Obama supporter/donors have learned the hard way.
Now a Virginia NAACP chairman is also getting a lesson in Leftism 101 for daring to question the Saintliness of Trayvon Martin. LINK
Must not be fun, walking on eggshells, looking behind your back and under the bed when you are a leftist.
That is exactly right. Or as Team Obama says: Get ye under the bus!
Last post was supposed to be in response to a post about firing the IT guy. Sorry. But it does get me to m main point…
I think that it would be advantageous for someone, esp. an attorney to maybe file ethical grievances against esp. Corey, but also maybe the prosecutors. State prosecutors have a higher duty than to get a conviction. Suppressing evidence or delaying releasing it to opposing counsel is questionable for civil litigants, but unconscionable for prosecutors. Firing the IT guy who whistle blew should, absent anything else for Corey, be an ethics violation. This was a murder case, and the prosecution kept a lot of things from the defense until the eve of trial, when it was too late to do anything. Something else there – the whole interaction between Crump, DA, and Martin family and witnesses – defense never had a chance to really nail this down. Finally, dropping 3rd Degree Murder on the defense after they rested – prosecution had over a year to do so, had it properly researched, etc., and then intentionally put it before the judge at a time when defense didn’t have a chance to do their own research, or put up any evidence to counter it.
I still think weed is enough by itself. Yes, it makes you mellow during intake. But it see-saws your mood.
If you were in a rage about something before getting toasted for a full week, that rage doesn’t disipate over days like for normal people. Since the weed provides an escape from that rage, it simply masks it.
And then you come off your high. You’re just like the guy trying to quit smoking or caffiene. And the rage is still there.
See-saw
So the fact that Martin had *low* levels of THC makes it more likely he was in aggravated state of mind.
First time posting long time lurker pre GZ trial.
I keep thinking about the one jurist who has 8 kids,
no rush to go home? It is odd to me that for a jury
that often refused a break when asked, is taking their sweet time now.
Could be like my own mother (of 8 children) we’re all grown educated and out taking care of ourselves.
Somone made a good point yesterday on how the jury recongizes “verdict day” as a big media event. They want to get their faces on and best suits ready before MSM herd subjects them to scrutiny 24/7 Live!…
Maybe the remember Maureen Dowd’s hitpiece on the Lt Gov’s makeup after Bush V Gore.
After the verdict is reached and handed down in Court, the juror’s identity will be sealed (kept secret) for a very long time. No media is allowed to photograph them as they leave the Court. It will be the decision of each juror as to whether or not they will want to speak to the media, and they will be allowed to negotiate a fee for their participation in any interview(s). So do not expect to see all of the jurors sitting down in the courtroom for live interviews after this is all over!
All this nonsense about makeup, clothes or whatever causing them to plan a delay in giving their verdict in just that, nonsense. They could go home to their families and do all of that stuff.
There is a hung jury right now, IMO.
Could be, but some women want to look their best any time they do something significant, even with a very limited audience. Some women who say they want to “put their face on” are being literal.
Yeah, like Jodi Arias 🙂
I just hope they have not ordered matching charcoal gray ‘We Are Trayvon’ emblazoned hoodies for the verdict announcement.
LOL! 😉
Welcome ColonialGal – Just had to giggle, even the rigors of this case must seem kind of freeing to have a break from caring for 8 kids 🙂
I’m speaking from my own mother’s experience – this woman would have found a way off the jury if she had youngsters at home.
She may see this as a bit of a break and an opening to be a “professional” in some ways have a career away from fulltime motherhood.
Plus, to be responsible and do what she could to help serve her community as GZ, innnocently and trustingly, tried to do.
Ugh…between reading the insane 6 pg. Rant of a termination letter by Angela Corey to the IT tech, to scrolling up to see the protestors with GZ In crosshairs TShirts, and one being arrested for calling for mass killings on twitter, this entire situation is just making me sick…..
This entire situation is a politically manufactured travesty
Kinda’ makes you wonder about the kind of people would fall for this kind of “politically manufactured travesty”. Well, something similar did happen in another country in the 1920s, though…
Where can I find a copy of her “rant?”
Rotate I totally agree very odd that they went home last night at 6, strolled in at 9 this morning now lunch at noon?
maybe they have a vedict….not guilty murder 2
not guilty manslaughter
and they’re stringing things out to look as if they’ve considered everything thoroughly so as to avoid the media bashing that the Anthony jury took. Can’t blame them if so.
Or maybe their heads hurt from wading through all the evidence, and they just want to push back their chairs and take a break.
Cripes…!!!
Or maybe the jury is stalling so they can render tomorrow morning when all the Trayvonites will be listening to their pastors in church (sarc). Or maybe they’re just delaying until Monday, giving additional time for deployment of LE.
BTW, I can say with certitude, there are agencies deploying their personnel to jurisdictions outside of their own, providing backup to one another throughout Florida.
ColGal & Rags… My wife has helped me ‘get’ some of the stuff you and others here are wondering about re-the jury’s actions.(6:00pm Finish for the evening;9:00am Restart;12:00 lunch;Call for ordered-numbered Evidence lists;etc..) “They are WOMEN. They want to be thorough. They were tired and hungry yesterday so they pulled the plug at 6pm. They aren’t airhead ‘OJ Jury’ drama lovers. They like low key, reasoned assessments & summations(O’Mara).”
My very sane, highly educated and experienced spouse LOVED Mark’s 3-hour summation yesterday. Ya know, the one which the cable blatherers/talking heads and drama queens were gnoshing their ADD teeth over. As often happens in our home(Central Florida), The BIG Boss(4’11” Sicilian of 97-lbs)helps keep my ‘over-sensitive gag reflex for Bulls*** grounded. (-:
Is every Lawyer in the country getting on TV to pontificate about this case? How they would do things different/ better than O’Mara/West. Now some ass is saying only reason “that child is dead is because he’s black” they must have to have an OUT THERE opinion to get on a show.
RAGSPIERRE quick get an agent you too can get some action.
Quote: Now some ass is saying only reason “that child is dead is because he’s black”
That’s true, but not for the reasons he thinks. Bets that if I threw sweet & proper Asian kids into the “no limit nigga” culture that they would be dead soon too.
Most ethnic groups have gone through a high crime period in their history, and I bet it’s the young adults, like TM, who commit most of the violence.
I think you are looking for excuses.
Although there was the Summer Riots of 1110 AD when the Saxon “youths” go out of hand…
Thank you. No.
As in “HELL, NO”.
Did you guys see this from this morning’s Orlando Sentinel? “Teen arrested over #Zimmerman tweet”
As I mentioned to the people who responded to me on Twitter, it’s about time, too.
Yes saw that and am relived they were arrested, and that this is being publicized.
Just truly creeped out that threats of violence are how to show racial pride…..sad and deplorably embarrassing…..
Whoops Dollz while dinking around with this format missed that they were arrested ;( sorry and thanks for welcome.
That idiot with the bullseye over GZ head shirt outside courthouse should be arrested too. ( first reply post lets see if this works )
Why? What did he do?
Remember the Giffords assassination attempt? Here in Arizona the left made a huge deal about cross hairs being placed on a map of the various congressional districts the Republicans wanted to win. Much was made of that and the left screamed that it was provocative and partially responsible for the assassination attempt.
Apparently they have no problem using the same tactics they decried then. Except they take it one step further and place the cross hairs on a person rather than a map.
“It’s Different When They Do It, So Shut Up.”
Ah, gotcha, thanks!
But just because the left does something, doesn’t mean that the right has to do it too. I would not stand within 20 feet of that idiot, but this is America and he has a right to express his (stupid) beliefs on a t-shirt. Just because you or I have some level of accord for public expression of our thoughts / beliefs, that does not require him to, not at all, he is free to wear that dumb shirt. And quite frankly I for one am glad that he does, because I can see it and stay clear of him!
But apparently if his shirt had words like, “I am gonna shoot up my high school” or the like, he could be arrested and prosecuted on Federal charges! It is getting crazy out here. They arrested a teenager in Texas for posting words like that, and at the end he wrote “Jokin'” – and yet he faces 8 years in Federal Prison, poor kid!
You do realize the difference…one was a highly recognized political “leader” and the other is some guy at a “protest” or whatever it is. I find both unsettling because it is the whack jobs who (follow, admire or know the person) who usually shoot up people or places.
https://twitter.com/jonbusdeker/status/356079810533019648/photo/1
LOL! That shirt looks ridiculous and he looks ridiculous for wearing it! He should have found a more “menacing” looking image of George if he wanted to do it right, IMHO, but I can be picky like that. 😉
What I find extremely hypocritical is that the people that publicly put a price on George Zimmerman’s head has not been charged.
It is disgusting.
…have not been charged.
Yes isn’t it interesting that the left wingers in our federal Department of Injustice refuse to make any arrests over what is essentially a contract hit request and solicitation of murder?
Of course we have already been shown that Holder will take no steps against his Brothers in the NBPP.
Yes, and there’s a great photo of an angry Crump at a Sanford rally distributing flyers announcing the New Black Panther Party’s $10,000 reward for the capture of Zimmerman.
Yesterday Guy played the “if Zimmerman were black” canard. What a joke. If indeed the guy shot was white, would his parents be ushered into the mayor’s office for a whites-only strategy planning session?
I don’t do cable tv and rarely have free tv on, so am very appreciative of William and Andrew for this great coverage.
Mandy, must admit have raced past your posts during trial and look VERY forward to going back and catching up.
Helluva time to join a blog! GB and look forward to reading you.
Re the Mother of 8 she is in her 30’s so would doubt all grown and gone. She is the Hispanic from Chicago if memory serves me. ( no idea how to do a respond to post am new to this kind of posting will bone up on later )
Hi ColonialGal – “Reply” took me awhile to figure out too – if you look in the upper right hand corner of the post you wish to respond to – press “reply” and the message box at the bottom will state above it “reply to (name)”
Hope that helps 🙂
I have the reply thing down but just stepped on my own reply LOL. Have also learned I can’t vote up or down twice as I went back thread to down tick and up tick a few posts.
BUSTED
Took me an hour to find the current page for today so Trust me, it can be confusing – turns out new page hadn’t been linked yet, finally found it on the home page. Usually the Orange link in the upper right hand just under main website banner leads to all articles on each day of Z coverage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMjjGmZPgFA
What is the word that I am looking for to describe that video and the person that posted the link? Hmmm Moonbat, maybe? I really don’t know.
Anyway, I watched for you. So tell me, what do you think Trayvon was picking up? What was Treyvon looking for? What did Treyvon lose? I stopped the video about there. So anyway what do you believe the answers are to those questions and how the cluck do they relate in any way to the case?
I watched the vid too, I think it was meant as a reality check in stark contrast to all the baby TM pix
Whatever the motivations of the poster, I do find the image of the tall hooded TM striking as a reality check
It looked to me like a small cigar.
the video shows the height of TM which is important. The video contradicts the photograph that the $ybrina Fulton has been hawking about the son she kicked out of the house.
TM was not able to purchase the blunt. The guy in the store refused to supply him with the blunt. There should be a longer version of the video that shows what happened after he left the store, indicating he gave money to 3 individuals who have been nicknamed the 3 stooges. One of them purchased the blunts for TM. It is on that video.
Speculation not based on facts in evidence.
711 video never came into evidence?…..Jeez.
Not as to the specific claims he’s making about bending over to pick something up. His accusations were rather vague as well. The only value of that video, in my opinion, is to verify what TM was wearing and how tall he was relative to someone else.
Well NYDaily News editorial opinion sure is annoying.
Blecch. Not only totally biased but wrong on several facts.
Juror B-29 scares me the most. She is black or Hispanic has seven children and lived in Chicago at time of shooting. Her kids are 19, 18, 14, 10, and 3 year old twins. Why on earth would this women want to be sequestered for multiple weeks, separated from her family for this long, unless she needed a break from her life. But she knew it wouldn’t be a week or 2 a month is a very long time when someone has young children. Who else do we know of thats from Chicago? I wouldn’t put it past Obama Admin or DOJ to try to slip a juror thru considering the lack of evidence.
Possible, but she might also have an extended family to help out. Grandmothers do a lot of baby sitting for Filipinas I work with, especially if they are too broken down to work.
I am pretty sure that’s the same juror that was reported as looking away from BLDR in final arguments
I know it’s incredibly frustrating not knowing what the heck is going on whilst waiting for the verdict, but I think we all need to take a chill pill and not leap to any spurious conclusions about possible motivations regarding any of the jurors and just wait this thing out
Right you are the same gal.
I’m not frustrated. I not glued to TV, biting my nails waiting for verdict. I was doing some chores around the house while the TV was on instead of radio. Last night had read jurors profiles at Talk Left and thought it odd that someone with that many children some very young at that, would agree to do this. Then I see she just moved from Chicago, is that not odd or thought provoking. I was just airing my thoughts, we’ll see if anything comes of it but if there’s a holdout or 2 from a not guilty verdict it will be interesting to see who they were when their books are published.
Didn’t she only live in Florida 3 months before being chosen as a juror? I wonder if Florida is like our area in that jurors are pulled from voter rolls. It just seems odd that a new resident from Obamaland would end up on the jury.
Of course, 8 kids could mean she’s a conservative Christian.
She’s a puzzle.,
Florida jurors are no longer pulled from voter rolls, but from Driver License registrations.
Since we’re now into the rankest of speculation, how about this? She’s from Chicago, where young black men and killing and being killed every day. So she would see TM as just one of those many thugs that die routinely.
Now can we get back to reality? We do not know what’s going on in the jury room, and it’s useless for us to speculate about it. The jury will return when they return and not before. Until then, relax, drink a beer or a cognac, smoke a cigar (or not) and find something else to occupy your fevered imagination.
What excellent advice. A gin and tonic for me, with a fine cigar for my mid-day break.
There is no reality right now concerning this case except for in the jury room, only speculation. If I want to post my thoughts I will if you don’t want to read it don’t.
I wondered about her too when I heard her questioned at voir dire, but from a different perspective when neither side objected to her. My though was someone with so many children would be more likely to have to drop out of deliberations at some point, due to family emergencies. Or that she wouldn’t be able to maintain focus away from twin children that young, for a trial estimated then to be two to four weeks duration. But then I thought both sides wanted at least one juror of ‘color’ on the panel, even if that was a minority of Hispanic parentage, so neither side objected. I have no idea which way she’d be leaning concerning guilt or innocence. That George grew up speaking Spanish may provide some consideration for him; but having sons near Trayvon’s age range could send her the other way.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear – I meant to explain that if you’re not going to be around your computer and want to know when the jury comes back, that’s the account which will be among the first to announce it, and you can set up Twitter to send a text alert & her message to your cellphone when she tweets 🙂
Ace had a very funny post about twitter people the day after the sharknado movie and why the ratings were so bad.
The reality is most folks aren’t on twitter ( me included ),but twitter people think everyone is on.
Amy FYI thank you for your posts it has been insightful to read them as this mess has gone on and please be safe.
I was one of those people who was never ever EVER going to do that stupid Twitter thing… and then I took the plunge. I blame Professor Jacobson, and also Twitchy, for tipping me over the edge.
Hey, want to see what I’m eating for lunch? ;-P
Amy, I’m still a LONG way from actually tweeting stuff out. I’ve sent three tweets in my entire life. One was “testing,” and the other were tweets to Andrew that he had an old non-commentary feed on the current day’s page when the page went up. I have zero followers, and I find that perfectly acceptable, because I may use it as a direct form of communication, but I’m not interested at all in “broadcasting.”
Twitter is one of the most effective communication tools invented to date. It’s cache is not what you tweet, but who you follow. That allows only certain tweets to show up in your timeline and gives you instant information and commentary on subjects of interest. I follow smart people, local and national law enforcement, breaking news. If you comment, it forces a certain brevity and clarity. No bloviating.
And thank you for your kind thoughts. I live on an island, and the bridge is down to one lane until next Friday anyway, so if worse comes to worst we’ll just go close the other lane 😉
Thanks for the heads up, Amy in FL. I have a Twitter account, but I never really use it, so I was unaware of mobile notifications.
I am not too proud to admit that I needed my 13-year-old niece to show me how to do that 😉
Let’s hope these aren’t the Real Housewives of Seminole county they may go pole dancing tonight! was that a picture of their lunch Tennis posted or a joke? What’s next they are off to the pool?
Why am I wasting my time on verdict watch? It isn’t as if I would not hear which makes me wonder where they found 10 people for the jury.
Confession I have 2 cords of wood to stack so waiting for verdict is my alibi am busy doing very serious things online shhhh.
Watching talking air heads the last few hours and these idiots they put on the TV are ridiculous. One women on Fox was saying what if GZ attacked TM, what if what if…….. You can’t convict someone when they claim self-defense on “what ifs” and supposition. You need evidence to contradict GZ’s statements and there isn’t any so I had to shut off TV for my own sanity. They actually pay these clowns to go on air, actual lawyers who should know better. Most are defense attorneys I wouldn’t hire if they offered their services for free if they act that stupid on national TV.
I am absolutely one to say “I toldja so.” To the folks last night who insisted this would be over before lunch with full acquittal, despite the fact this is a female committee…I TOLDJA SO.
It is literally impossible to come to a lawful conclusion that self defense was unproven to a certainty beyond all other consideration.
Someone(s) on this panel are ignoring the law. Then again, what’s another travesty layered upon all the previous travesties in this case?
Someone IS ignoring the law………..just as the prosecution hoped they would. It is my opinion that many, many women don’t really GET self-defense. It’s not an idea or concept they subscribe to. This was always the danger in selecting an all female jury.
I don’t know. Most of these women are from the south. We’ve been raised with the idea that our home is our castle. GZ thought his castle was being invaded and wanted to protect it. Men and women using guns is accepted and no big deal. We know that if someone threatened us or was beating them, our men would kill them- pure and simple. Plus they have to know SYG is the law. It may not have been used in this case but self defense is kind of the same thing.
I think you are wrong. I think many women “get” self defense better than many men do. After all they are the ones who most often get beaten, robbed and raped. That is also one of the reasons why I particularly enjoy teaching self defensive shooting skills to women.
Was in WalMart last night talking guns to buddy who works in the sporting goods section. A very petite, little Hispanic woman came in and was asking about guns. Curious I asked what kind of a gun she was thinking of and what she was going to use it for. Her answer? Protection from domestic violence during a divorce.
Perception is not reality. In fact, men are far more likely to be the subject of violent assaults of all kinds (except rape). They’re also much more likely to have been in a violent altercation of some kind, even if only a schoolyard fight. It’s real easy for women to have never been in any kind of physical altercation like that, and thus have no real idea what they’re like. Movies and TV condition us that it’s easy to recover from severe beatings, even gunshot wounds, because the hero is in fighting shape the day after being shot in the gut.
Then where is the verdict?
I have a question concerning the vetting of jurors: How thoroughly are they checked out to verify that what they say about themselves in the jury selection process is true and factual? For instance, whether or not they have ever owned guns, etc.
See my answer below.
Rene Stutzman @renestutzman 2m
The no. of cops at the SemCo c-house is stunning. Scores.This is SCSO jurisdiction but also cops here from UCF & LakeMary & prolly others.
Costing taxpayers a damn fortune. I wonder if DOJ promised to reimburse police expenses? ( a check that won’t ever come ) According to press con last night they have been training for over a year who is paying for all of that?
I won’t go any further but this sort of thing does not sit well with me at all.
The IT Director’s termination letter reeks of bullshit. What on earth do BDLR’s credentials have to do with the actions taken by this whistleblower? Answer: they are totally irrelevant.
Most of you have been here from the beginning of the trial. I’m curious as to what you personally find to be most significant moment(s) of the trial that have stuck w/ you. In my case, it was during the 2nd police interview by detective Serino (?) He attempted to trick Gz with info that someone had taped the encounter. Without hesitation, GZ responded, “Thank God. I was hoping someone would have taped it.”
That cemented his innocence in my mind. It also solidified my perception that he is trusting, ingenuous and naively unaware that he is a minnow swimming in a pool with hungry catfish. I know MOM mentioned it during closing, but I do wish he had spent a bit more time with it.
Independent witness Good’s well-delivered testimony that TM was on top of GZ doing MMA-style ground and pound on him.
Far and away the most significant testimony in support of self-defense.
I can’t imagine how bad GZ’s chances would be if Mr. Good did not decide to go out and look at the commotion. With all the conflict between witnesses as to who was screaming, GZ would be in bigger trouble.
By far, the most important testimony. Of course, the bloody photo exhibits are important as well. Good’s testimony puts TM on top of GZ, which corroborates the wet back of GZ and wet knees of TM.
Funny, that was the overarching clincher for me, too. I mean, besides the totality of the evidence. I have interrogated outright psychopaths as part of civil matters (there are a LOT of non-violent psychopaths in the business world, btw). Even they, for whom lying is a matter of course, would have had a “oh, SPIT!” moment you could read if they had been confronted with that information.
No mens rea on Georgie. “I hope they got the whole thing…”
Naturally, the fantasists for the State had that covered in their whole “Svengali Of Central Florida” meme. Zimmerman, with his super police powers, knew ABSOLUTELY that there were no working cameras anywhere that night.
How…we dunno…
That argument was a non-starter, IMO. Everybody and his brother these days carries a cell phone that is capable of taking videos, at least for a few minutes. How many times have we seen grainy videos posted on-line of crimes-in-progress that some bystander took, using their phone? I can think of several I’ve seen in the past year, just off the top of my head.
Zimmerman was screaming and calling attention to himself for over a minute (the 40+ seconds captured on the 911 calls, and for at least 20+ seconds before the first 911 call was made). It was entirely possible that somebody in one of the many nearby residences might have used their cell phones, or even grabbed their cameras, and recorded the fight.
The fact that he told the first two people on the scene that he had been screaming for help, without knowing that anyone had recordings of anything…I’m sorry, nobody’s that quick on their feet. How can anyone still believe it’s not him screaming on that tape?
Once I realized that the defense was going to be able to better use the State’s witnesses than the side that called them, I started to pay attention and understand that this was a real stinker of a case that should never have been filed.
Rachel’s testimony and surly attitude. She showed that the “scared child” was steps away from the safety of his house, that he had a history of playing the Knockout Game or somesuch similar. It told me that Zimmerman’s “crime” was challenging a black thug from casing out the neighborhood for another robbery.
And her surly attitude and overt racism spoke to Martin’s character. Rachel is the kind of “human” Martin preferred to associate with.
Interesting post from Gucci Little Piggy (a blogger who hauled his butt down to Sanford to report on things first-hand) about that “crying juror” and the AP reporter who tweeted about her:
So, the AP guy came back to the press room and some people asked him if she really was crying. He wavered. His response was, “well we reported it,” which gives a clue to the mind of that guy. He didn’t say it in a snarky way like “well we reported it so what do you think?” but more as if his reporting it just meant that that fact itself was proof that his initial observation was true. But he said that he at least saw her wipe under her eye and then towards the side. He called it a tear but said he wouldn’t call it crying. Another reporter there chimed in and said she saw the same juror do that the day before. “I stick by my story,” said the AP guy. So could have been a tear, or it could have been a fly, or an eyelash, or a bad habit. Who knows, but these sharks are sitting in the gallery hoping to win the Twitter race.
Hmmm.
Interesting.
Yeah, but he didn’t tweet “think I just saw” or “may have,” did he? He tweeted it as fact, and now it will become part of the apocrypha surrounding this case, along with “f*cking coon” and “lesions on the liver” and “was told to stay in his truck” and the list goes on.
Or an itch, or an anything. The reporter never saw tears. Thats all we need to know. The media wonders why no one trusts them. It’s like that TV station in California that reported on pilots names Captain Sum Ting Wong, Ho Lee Fuk, We Tu Lo and Bang Ding Ow. ROFLMAO The old media are such colossal idiot’s they still don’t know theres a new kid in town called the new media and everyones watching them and pointing out what liars and connivers they are.
I meant to give credit to Gucci Little Piggy who are doing hard work for little or no pay to getting the true truth out http://glpiggy.net/
At the risk of bad taste, here’s the pilot name reading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L1JYHNX8pdo
NTSB has confirmed, huh?
That was covered on this very blog, by the awesome Mandy Nagy:
https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/tv-anchor-duped-into-airing-obviously-fake-pilot-names-is-a-teachable-moment/
Gwest, Rene Guzman I think her name is has been twitting all along on the jury. When first heard the story of the weeping juror ( now jurors ) I tossed a mental red flag on field, there is NO way she would have missed that. She has been almost annoying in her focus on who is wearing/doing what from day one. Nor would have Kathy not sure of her last name gal from channel 9.
The lady you’re referring to is Rene Stutzman, @renestutzman
Matt thanks I was sorta kinda close?
Thank you for your posts lets go fishing sometime 😉
I’m betting if it was a tear, it was from a really big yawn that caused a tear. The State was rather boring you know…
Courtroom airconditiong –> very dry air –> long days –> problems with contact lenses?
Seems to me that a deliberation longer than 15 minutes is bad for Zimmerman. If there is even one juror who doesn’t vote immediately for acquittal, then something is askew in that person’s reasoning center; and it could be an uncorrectable malady.
I’m betting on juror B-29.
Think about how the State put forth their case. They tried to make Zimmerman look like he went out to kill simply because he carried his firearm with him and that, OMG, it had a round in the chamber. They had no evidence to back this up but it was said nonetheless. Amongst a slew of other ridiculous things. The State had no case and had to rely on emotional nonsense to get them through this trial. I just hope the jury saw through it. I feel it is a hung jury though. I’m not so sure the State will take another run at it either. I think if they did, the defense will change a few things done and solidify the self defense case better though so maybe a hung jury is a good thing?
We don’t know if even the first vote has been taken. It’s possible they’ve decided to review evidence before voting.
We can all have our own opinions about that. Me, I firmly believe that after so many weeks of sequester that one of the very first things that the jury did yesterday was take a vote.
That they called it a night, early, is a signal (to me) that there is a hung jury and the two sides argued to a point that they needed to stop, call it a day.
If I am right, that is not necessarily bad for George. If it ends in a hung jury that would be the second best thing for George, and far better than a conviction on either charge.
I believe this is a hung jury. I do believe the state failed to provide facts and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for Murder 2 or Manslaughter but I worry about how much emotion the State played on the jury. While it is easy to say the jury can’t use emotion to come to a verdict and must use only the facts and evidence of the case, we all know as humans, emotion is very real. This is why I believe the State played on this emotion so high and often. Heck, the States entire case was basically built on emotion.
I believe, based on the facts and evidence, this is a clear cut self defense case. This verdict has the possibility of playing a big roll on future self defense cases in Florida. It’s scary to think that if you were ever involved in a situation where you had to use deadly force to save yourself from serious bodily harm or death that the State could pull this on you and you get thrown in jail for the rest of your life. Does this case make you think twice before you would defend yourself?
Happy to have found this site.
I have a question for the legal experts here: Is it possible under FL law for the jury to find Zimmerman not guilty of second degree murder, and then be hung on the charge of manslaughter?
I’m no legal expert, but the question has been asked and answered many times here. Manslaughter is a lesser included charge that is included on the jury form. He can be convicted of that. Not sure about being hung for it. We use lethal injection in Florida. Used to cook them with Ol’ Sparky. Not a capital crime anyway.
Yes I know you were using the term in another way.
Sometimes a very thorough investigation is done on prospective jurors backgrounds, and on whether or not what they state during jury selection is true. It depends upon how much time and resources the attorneys devote to that investigation. I have no idea about what, if any, jury investigation the prosecutors and defense counsel did in this case.
Ret, wanted to thank you for your posts you are a good soul.
You are welcome.
I know that almost all of the people who are commenting are pro-GZ. I also believe that this case never should have been filed, and that it was filed because of political pressure exerted by people who believed that TM was murdered.
That is not how the criminal justice system is supposed to work in ANY case. Political pressure and/or a screaming mob should NEVER play a part in whether or not a criminal case is filed against a defendant. Rather, that decision should ALWAYS be governed exclusively based on an objective analysis of the facts and the law. With the added understanding that a criminal case should NEVER be filed unless the prosecution is (in their hearts) convinced that the evidence establishes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This case doesn’t come close to that standard.
I have tried in my comments to remain objective. And I have tried to share my knowledge and experience gained over the last 30 years, including 25 as a prosecutor in New York and California.
I appreciate your integrity, while disagreeing with your statements.
The very passage of laws is a political response, and it is almost NEVER made absent passions from those who militate for that passage.
Consider “mandatory sentencing”. Absolutely, undeniably a political response to outrage over courts that allowed too lenient sentences.
I know that many criminal cases are tried SOLELY as a matter of political pressure, and many others are tried because there is a case to be made AND the public wheal demands that they be tried.
You are partial correct.
In practice, unfortunately (as exemplified by this case) politics/screaming mobs, on occasion, play a significant role in whether or not a prosecutor (who is an elected official and generally wants to get re-elected) files a case.
But, in theory — the way the criminal justice is supposed to function according to nonpartisan ethical standards — politics/screaming mobs should never play a role in a prosecutor’s filing decision.
Some prosecutors give in to extraneous outside influences. And some — the good ones — do not. Just like politicians. There are good ones (truly looking out for the interests of the People) and bad ones (self-serving, self-interested, doing what they think will help their career).
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/04/14/zimmerman-anatomy-of-an-deficient-probable-cause-affidavit/
I’m sure you’ve read the PCA (it’s accessible within the above link). What a sorry-ass piece of reasoning, this PCA. The article dissects it.
Thank you for your insight
Personally the more I hear about the jurors, the more they seem like they may just be very methodical in going over this case
Do you or does anyone know if they were ever asked about how they might be able to proffer a verdict in such a highly politically charged case?
Can’t find my wording, but am wondering if they might be fearing for their families in the aftermath of this – was any such question asked?
Can of worms I know, just can’t help being curious
As I stated in previous comments, I am certain that the jurors are being meticulous in their evaluation of the evidence. They know that the eyes of the world are on them. And I believe that they want to do the right thing.
The BIG issue is what role emotion and sympathy (for TM and his family) will play in the jurors’ minds. Under the law it is supposed to be irrelevant. And all of the jurors took an oath to follow the law. So one would hope that the jurors decide this case solely upon the facts (as they see them) and the law (as given by the judge).
But, you cannot discount the possibility that one or more jurors will let their emotions get the better of them. That is certainly what prosecutor Guy was trying to accomplish by his closing argument. And that is what O’Mara was urging the jurors not to do.
Yep. One thing I might have done differently than O’Mara (and he may and I missed it) is point out that Mr. and Mrs. Zimmerman were also looking at the loss of their son. That what the jury did was going to either effectively end a man’s life or restore it.
Thanks very much!
A few more question for you, if I may:
1.When is the first moment the jurors are given the instruction to not read/discuss/etc. anything about the case?
2. At what point did the sequestration begin?
3. During sequestration how rigorously are the jurors phone calls, emails, etc. monitored?
1. At the beginning of the trial;
2 & 3. Not sure.
At the end of each day I know they are allowed to check in with their families via their phones, although their calls are supposed to be monitored… maybe some way for the two women with attorneys in their immediate family to get some clue, but not sure.
I saw the young black AP reporter claim (last night) that one juror wiped away tears. But CNN’s Martin Savidge watched the same state rebuttal and said the jurors were “stoic.”
NOW, I’m hearing there were TWO jurors weeping… LOL
It’s pathetic how much BS goes on in modern media.
There’s comments here, and at many other sites, describing Trayvon Martin’s recovered texts and conversations about fighting and wanting to acquire guns, etc. Were these all specifically described during the defense forensic expert’s testimony?
And does anyone have a quick reference link to play that back?
Thanks in advance for any reply…
No, unfortunately the defense was not allowed to bring that up in trial.
I should have also mentioned that the prosecution was allowed to depict Zimmerman as an MMA super warrior.
Jay, Well lets see are you asking for what was discussed during the on the record and off the record testimony of Root? or what is known about trademark’s cellphone and assorted twits and pictures?
The Conservative treehouse dot com has endless posts on the later. If the former would look at the links Andrew has provided for daily coverage of testimony.
Hope that helps.
Heres link to that hearing. https://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/judge-to-rule-in-morning-about-trayvon-fighting-texts-after-contentious-nightime-hearing/
On YouTube the most complete record I can find is the same channel used by Andrew in his daily posts (of course): The Count .
You’ll have to dig back a bit for what you’re looking for but from what I can tell based on listening/ watching during the days and then going back in the evenings to fill in what I missed (sometimes I actually have to work, can you believe it?) or re-watch something, it’s all there. Testimonies are broken up a bit due to sidebars, etc. but it’s not too hard to find what you’re after.
With each passing minute, MOM’s decision to not go after TM’s angelic image and to not fully impeach the pros witnesses is affirmed.
If there is a hung jury and retrial, I will bet y’all anything that the gloves come off.
I don’t think what you describe is really O’Mara’s style. I also dont think being more agressive would have played well with the female jury or have been tolerated by Nelson. She definitely did not make life easy for the defense.
I agree it is not his style. But now, it will be impossible to find “virgin” jurors. Defense will have no choice but to let it all hang out, else we get more of this insanity.
There are still people out there that don’t know the facts associated with this case. They are the ones holding the “Justice 4 Trayvon” signs. I can’t imagine Zimmerman ever wanting to change his defense team for a retrial and I don’t see O’Mara walking away from it. I do think that it is likely that another judge would allow more evidence about Trayvon’s character in though.
The prosection couldn’t have asked for a better judge than Nelson. She helped them every step of the way. If they can’t win with her presiding they should give up.
The lack of untainted jurors will make it even less likely that the state would seek a new trial. Thanks to the media, there will be no one left who hasn’t been subjected to hysterical rhetoric.
Speaking as a female I would have been very pleased if MOM grew a pair. The way he tried to shut down West going so far as grabbing his arm when he was speaking about Constitution made me livid. I was also not happy to hear MOM say in closing some rubbish about MY CASE and MY this and that….It is about GZ not your damn career.
can you tell I am not a MOM fan? Watch vid Mandy posted last night ( warning may induce projectile barfing ).
I think he was trying to keep West from being cited for contempt. He knew the judge would have LOVED to toss West in jail, thereby handicapping them even more. They should never have been there that late; I can only imagine the absolute bone-tired fatigue they were feeling. A man’s liberty hangs in the balance, but you want to hurry-hurry-hurry so the jury isn’t inconvenienced?! Sorry, I think her intent was much more malevolent than that.
I think he was very limited in what he could say about Trayvon’s character. His school records weren’t allowed to be entered into evidence, I believe. Without the texts everything would be hearsay or speculation. Trying to introduce the fact that he had a very low level of THC in his blood I don’t think would have been much help, and could backfire. You don’t want to look like you’re trying to imply he was just a bad kid who deserved to die. It has to be relevant to the incident (which the gun and fighting texts most certainly were).
There’s also another outcome.
First, we know most people who get summoned to serve on jury duty, see it as a terrible inconvenience. Many look for ways not to serve. But they get to waste a day IF they have to go to court. Judges are usually pretty nasty, too, when jurors explain their personal hardships. Ahead? Some people may say “they’ve already made up their minds, and “connected the dots” to the crime. Others will appear they really do want to serve “because they want to convict the bastards” who too often “get away with it.”
And, of course, there’s the “old reliable” where a potential juror states “I believe in a juror’s right to NULLIFY.”
So far, not discussed, is that a lot of people (let’s say who use their hidden gun to shoot a perp, will walk away … And, NOT want to be interviewed by the police.
Heck, even at accidents drivers see happening on the roads they are on, how many stop? How many even scratch out their name and phone number, to give to a victim who isn’t dead by the impact of a lousy driver?
The worst outcome will be a lack of participation. I don’t know where that critical number lies, but it is out there!
In a similar way, how many people don’t want to be hassled by the TSA, so they choose not to fly? A significant number? Or an insignificant number?
The amazing number to me is that this trial has been seen live. Or through You Tube clips by probably more than a half million people.
Thank you Mr. Branca and Dr. Jacobson for a job extremely well done. Thanks also to the commentistas for the cogent, usually civil discussion. This has been a fascinating ride.
While we’re waiting, a question has dogged me since soon after the arrest. Based partially on my youthful indiscretions and largely on observations of those of others (I swear!), I have had suspicions on how Trayvon spent his four minutes of free time between “He’s running…” and “What’s your problem?” Most assume he ran to near TrayDadHo’s residence, then returned to commence pounding. His actions to me suggest he had a task to accomplish before going all get off on GZ.
Was the rear or surrounding bushes near TrayDadHo’s residence searched? I believe it likely TM went there to cache the stash, then- still talking to his wildebeest friend- returned for the main event. Speculation provides a wealth of possible individuals that then become involved: TrayDad, TDH, TrayLilBro, and DeeDee herself.
Has there been any investigation or questioning on this aspect of TM’s trek and return? Surely the physical evidence has been hidden/destroyed/bluntified by now.
I bet at least DeeDee knows. If the cell records are admitted in an unfortunately required appeal, this line of questions could be revealing.
I think it’s fairly likely the jury knows that GZ faces a large minimum sentence. I’ve seen 10-20-Life billboards on I-95, they’re probably in Orlando too. GZ qualifies for the “life” part if convicted, meaning a mandatory minimum 25 to life if convicted.
Just passed by a TV and heard a dummy lawyer on MSNBC named Lisa Bloom do absolutely nothing to dispel blonde moron image. Says defense did NOT prove self defense. “great bodily harm” only means from the neck down. It doesn’t say “great brain harm”.
.
And she votes
I will find it entertaining to see people like her in complete disbelief if Zimmerman is found not guilty. I’ll probably even watch MSNBC for a little while and hopefully hear from Rev Al.
I suspect Rev Al is praying for a “not-guilty” to prolong and increase his relevance and his steering of any national dialogue about race and how unfair his folks are treated
If there is a not guilty verdict then Rev Al is going to look like even a bigger fool than the Duke case..
That has to be the most ignorant comment I’ve heard about this case. So someone can try to bash your head in and you don’t have a right to defend yourself b/c attacker is not hitting your “body” only your head. I bet the idiots back in the studio said ” good point Lisa, never thought of that”. And this women actually gets paid to be a moron and probably has a law degree to boot. What has become of this once great nation?
to be clear, that was my interpretation of her saying they didn’t prove self defense
Nah!
You’re kidding, right?
“…from the neck down…”
You HAVE to be kidding.
No one can be so stooopid. Can they?
Golly. I wonder if that applies to rape, too…???
Plus the defense doesn’t have to prove self-defense the prosecution has to prove it wasn’t self-defense!
You should be careful around loaded TVs. Accidental discharge of stupidity is a very real danger.
She’s actually Gloria Allreds daughter and a civil rights atty. That explains it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Bloom
That just made me laugh out loud. But it’s so sad at the same time.
She’s a chip off the OLD block, mommy Gloria Allred.
Given their beatification of Trayvon Martin, I fervently hope that the prosecutors, including Angela Corey, get to have their own up close and personal encounter with their own Trayvon’s in the near future. Perhaps that would help them understand just the type of person they are championing.
As for the jury — I hope they get their own up and close encounters with the individual they decide to side with in this case. If they return a verdict of “guilty” on any count, I trust they will get to experience their own Trayvon on a dark and rainy night. But if realize what a travesty this political directed prosecution of George Zimmerman actually is, I hope that any dark and rainy night encounters they have will be with a George Zimmerman.
Almost 400 comments now, so I’ll not even try to respond to various posts, but I still wanted to throw out a few thoughts…
– I think it was Andy McCarthy who said JDN not allowing TM’s texts was so ridiculous because they had no problem with authenticity when they wanted to retrieve Rachel Jeantel’s number from it.
– re: filing complaints against Corey and/or prosecutors… MOM said (CNN interview maybe?) that in 30 years of practicing he had never filed even one. Yesterday he filed SIX against those cretins! And still managed to speak respectfully about JDN. So he’s well aware that he still has to work amongst those idiots, but it seems even he reached his limit.
– As much as I wanted (and I mean, REALLY wanted) a Not Guilty verdict yesterday about 30 minutes after they went in, I wouldn’t announce the verdict until Monday morning if I were on the jury. That way, most of the protestors have to go to work (well, at least some would–prob the ones for GZ :/) and so reduces the number. Also, the longer they wait after the trial, the more possible it is that folks will get bored and get back to their lives. You know, take some of the charge off it. Finally, except for the recent transplant, these women were around for the Casey Anthony debacle (pretty sure someone said this already) and they can remember Rodney King; they KNOW there are protestors and unstable people who want to riot. And they may be able to hear them. They may be exchanging recipes, for all we know! (I hope we hear all the details, some day…)
Mostly, I am just offering up small prayers when I think about them for their wisdom and discernment; that God will bring peace to all hearts involved and that He will turn people’s eyes back to their own actions and to Him; and that He would thwart the intentions of those who mean us harm. Not too much to ask, right? 😉
Your first two bullet points are very prescient. Thank you.
5 demerits you said bullet. If you were in public school and said bullet they’d call the police on you and give you a 10 day suspension.
If rioting is the concern it is MUCH safer to announce verdict this weekend. Our cities are empty. Monday means people are back to work and in danger………..instead of being in their homes.
Well, dang. I didn’t consider that :/
Rachel “authenticated” that she was indeed talking to Trayvon so her calls were ok…it’s the texts that could not be proven having been from Trayvon because the defense did not have the discovered info until a few days before the trial and thus could not find or have time to find the recipient of the texts.
Maybe it’ll make more sense if you read the original article:
http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2013/07/11/reversible-error-in-zimmerman-before-we-even-get-a-verdict/2/
Or it did to me, anyway. Not that we needed more evidence that JDN was part of the prosecution team…
….protesters….have to go to work? WORK? Which fantasy novel series have you been reading? The only thing these morons work at is figuring out how to scam more freebies from you and me.
Monday morning would NOT be a good time. Retail establishments will be open and filled with employees when the assaults and looting start. Sunday night would be much better. Most will have given up their posts at the courthouse and toher venues by then.
It’s all about violence and looting, and this case is just an excuse for those activities.
I’d put money on none of the protesters having a serious job that required their 9-5 presence.. or not to take away from the late shift, any time-clock requirement. I noticed that none of them, or merely a handful, showed up before 11 am EDT, also. Way too early a wake up call.
Dang folks, something ain’t right. O’Mara’s arguments yesterday destroyed any hint of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Destroyed it. Textbook, in my non-lawyerly opinion. A rhetorical grand slam.
Stealth juror? I said from the first days of jury selection, anyone who moved to Sanford (Seminole County) after the shooting became a media sensation should have been pre-empted. Or maybe I’ve read too many Grisham books. But the hair on the back of my neck is not happy…
There are a lot of people around who are still saying “He got out of his car with a gun, he’s responsible for everything that happened after that.” One of those people on this jury is all it would take.
And I would not be surprised if half this jury feels that way..I predict it will be a hung jury at this point.
It seems you are making the assumption that the jury believes GZ’s account of that evening. If one does believe it then yes…not guilty by self defense. I would imagine a couple if not more of the women on that jury are not buying it. Here is a problem with having an all female jury for this trial….I doubt any of them have ever been in a fight of this degree…except maybe the one that had domestic violence in her history. They are probably not breaking this case down to the 2 minute fight…they might be over thinking it.
Still, I don’t trust this jury.
Please, please, please be wrong!!
the Special Prosecutor’s Office of Angela Corey has fired the IT specialist who blew the whistle on the prosecution’s concealment of evidence
Josef would be proud.
Unitron?
Link to the story: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-whistleblower-fired-20130713,0,2426704.story
Follow the link at the bottom of the story for more juicy tidbits.
Related video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2FLbwsrGo
Darn having such trouble posting today I suspect the NSA snooping is having a difficult time keeping up with everyone.
I imagine they keep a close eye on websites with “insurrection” in their name. Heck, they’re probably monitoring my keystrokes. Oh. Oh. Yikes. HHHeeelllppp!!!
Asshat Guy said TM was running away! What a schmuck! Can’t run 100 yards in four minutes? Pffft.
When they hang this trial, I guarantee you the one(s) who refused to acquit will not have the guts to explain themselves.
Whoever hangs this jury will say they did it for Trayvon and will be viewed as a hero by whatever % of Americans think GZ should go to jail for killing an unarmed black teen. I wonder what that % is?
Can you imagine what all this waiting is doing to poor George?
When the verdict comes in Not Guilty I hope they have a good personal protection team to get him out of there alive.
The thumbs down is disturbing. Does someone really not want GZ safe?