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British MEP Daniel Hannan delivers electrifying take down of Occupy

British MEP Daniel Hannan delivers electrifying take down of Occupy

British MEP Daniel Hannan delivered an electrifying take down of the central tenets of the Occupy movement during a debate about the movement at the Young Britons’ Foundation this week.

Hannan described the bank bailouts, which have led to a landscape now filled with “zombie banks, crawling malodorously with their bandages hanging off because we don’t allow the market to take its natural course” as he addressed three core falsehoods Occupy — and many Democrats — puts forth:

1) The idea that we are living through a failure of capitalism, crisis of the market system

2) That the banking collapse was caused by a lack of regulation

3) The idea that we have been brought here by greed, by human weakness

Said Hannan:

Think of who have been the real enemies of Wall Street, the real enemies of stock exchanges through the ages. They’ve got some pretty dishonorable foes. During the Second World War, the city of London was repeatedly targeted by the Nazis, because they understood that the free-market system was part of what they saw as our degenerate system–in other words, one based on free contract and personal liberty. The stock exchange was repeatedly singled out by Luftwaffe bombs. When the Soviet Union expanded, the first thing they would do taking over a new country would be to close down the Bourse. And on September 11, the murderers struck at the heart of New York capitalism, well understanding that the thing they most disliked and resented about the West, the personal freedom, was represented in that building. Surely we are better than to line up with those kinds of enemies.

So no, don’t Occupy Wall Street, don’t occupy the London Stock Exchange, don’t even occupy St. Paul’s on the grounds that it’s on the way. Occupy the central banks that have printed the money in order to get around the failures of a handful of banksters. Occupy the houses of the politicians who have voted to give your money to people who are not prepared to live with the consequences of their own errors.

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Comments

Somewhere Uncle Milton is smiling.

CachorroQuente | January 20, 2013 at 3:22 pm

Tenets? Pound Occupy had tenets? Who knew?

Pound Occupy, the Seinfeld Show of protest movements.

    Their primary tenet was “nobody tell the cops”. It was applied whenever one of their number committed rape, died of drug overdose, or started planning a bombing.

1. According to Hannan:

There is a world of difference between being pro-business and being pro-market. Sometimes those two positions happen to coincide; often they do not. Corporatism is not the same thing as capitalism.

According to the Romney GOP:

Job creatrz, oooo!

47%, ptoi!

Too many conservatives who want free markets get suckered into supporting corporatism instead.

2. Hannan’s disadvantage is that many of his elite young audience are well positioned for remunerative regulatory careers capped off by extremely remunerative positions in the “private sector”, e.g. on corporate boards. Once they’re at Oxbridge, their reward-to-risk ratio may well be better in a corporatist regulated economy than in a market economy.

A similar situation exists in the US.

    casualobserver in reply to gs. | January 20, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    There are also a growing number – educated by the bailouts and the like – who recognize the differences.

    Sure, there are many, especially pundits and those who are paid to flap their jaws (that so many can be gainfully employed just to talk is amazing), who routinely argue that what is good for business is good for everyone, in the most general sense. And in the most general sense, it isn’t fully off the mark. Creating jobs is, in fact, a very good thing. But most every good thing has limitations. Recognizing and agreeing on the limitations is part of the learning and the political discussion in this country. I’ve heard more Tea Party affiliated people make similar points as Hannan than I have from the mouths of progressives. With modern progressives, more is ALWAYS the answer. As Hannan pointed out, just the guidance for the UK regulations is overwhelming (ten thousand pages??). I don’t know the equivalent for the U.S. or even if it exists. But certainly our environment isn’t hugely more or less. However, the progressive knee-jerk solution to the banking debacle was to create even more regulations, thanks to Dodd and Frank. Not refine, per se. More.

    But, if your goal is to put down all conservatives or those who are not Democrat, from whatever stripe, you might just simply say they are all corporatists, with no ability to see the difference. It is less true than to say there is a minority of progressives (Dems, liberals, etc.) who see the difference. Or, perhaps you can point me to those progressives who would agree with Hannan…..One or two even?

      1. It is less true than to say there is a minority of progressives (Dems, liberals, etc.) who see the difference. Or, perhaps you can point me to those progressives who would agree with Hannan…..One or two even?

      Perhaps you overlooked this statement by MoveOn’s Joan Blades:

      Right or left, none of us are comfortable with the degree of influence that big corporations have on government regulation.

      Leslie linked to it last week.

      A Google search on SOPA reveals plenty of progressive opposition. SOPA was introduced in the House by Texas Republican Lamar Smith; its Senate counterpart, PIPA, was introduced by Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy.

      2. But, if your goal is to put down all conservatives or those who are not Democrat, from whatever stripe, you might just simply say they are all corporatists, with no ability to see the difference.

      Way too many self-styled conservatives are doing a great job of acting out Jane’s Law: The devotees of the party in power are smug and arrogant. The devotees of the party out of power are insane.

      Two of the things I’ve harped on since the election are:

      a. We should have won this thing. It was ours to lose and we lost.
      b. The Right’s reaction to the defeat is more worrisome than the defeat itself.

      A corollary is:

      c. Why should the Left change? They won. It is incumbent on us to adapt to changed/changing circumstances.

        Crawford in reply to gs. | January 20, 2013 at 9:06 pm

        Why should the left change? Because theirs is the ideology of slavery, mass murder, and tyranny.

        casualobserver in reply to gs. | January 21, 2013 at 12:35 am

        SOPA is a lousy bill, for certain. Yet supporting the protection of intellectual property is far, far from being ‘corporatist’ in most people’s eyes. Believing in a free market does not require abandoning all protections for corporations’ ability to make a profit.

        We will probably agree that while voting is nearly an obligation, we would not want a career politician as a next door neighbor (at least I wouldn’t). The longer the elected class stays in office (even if intermittent) it seems the worse they get, regardless of positions. In my experience, Dems at the national AND local level who are not already accepting of progressive ideology move quickly to do so. After all, Joe Manchin tried desperately to find a way to jump on the gun control bandwagon without too much damage to his popularity. To whatever degree it is true, there are GOPers who still resist the move leftward. And the conservative/libertarian electorate is certainly much more accepting of Hannan’s ideas than any progressive I’ve met or read since I could read and speak. Even though some progressives – perhaps even ones who associates with MoveOn – might have opposed bailouts, I think you would be hard pressed to find a single one who would agree with Hannan’s position on the remedy – let them fail WITHOUT increasing regulations. To a fault, every progressive I’m aware of finds new laws and new rules (regulations) the solution to any and every problem.

        So, I stand by my original comments and disagree that all who believe that allowing corporations more leeway where appropriate are somehow evil corporatists. Nor do I agree that the most broad or generic belief that ‘job creators are good’ is the same. And so conservatives who believe in deleting (my favorite word for actions that never happen in DC) certain regulations and letting markets be more free are a good thing and can actually be found. On the flip side, I’m not aware of any progressives who wouldn’t jump at the chance to impose more rules, the electorate included.

Can’t we clone this guy, or at least get him to renounce his British citizenship and run for something over here? Or maybe get him to give lessons to some of the stupider American politicians?

BannedbytheGuardian | January 20, 2013 at 4:10 pm

This is an important correction. The proper letter thing is MEP.

Hannan is the SE England rep for that pseudo thing that does something in some obscure European town.that spends a lot of time discussing cheese rights , champagne rights & assorted branding of delicacies – of which Europe really does abound.

He is NOT a Member of the British Parliament . There are some cruds in there but even the lowest is actually responsible for someone back in their constituencies .

As to Occupy , most British think the EU is occupying Europe & they want out.

You might like to get Mr. Hannan’s short and inexpensive ‘broadside’, “Why America Must Not Follow Europe”, http://www.amazon.com/America-Follow-Europe-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/1594035601/ref=la_B004IGUSXQ_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358716505&sr=1-2

It’s an easy but enlightening 50-page read of what has already happened in Europe any why he feels we are destined for the same fate.

[…] British MP Daniel Hannan delivers electrifying take down of Occupy British MP Daniel Hannan delivered an electrifying take down of the ceMajor Bank, Economists Agree: Market Collapse Will Strike in 2013/pntral tenets of the Occupy movement during a debate about the movement at the Young Britons’ Foundation this week. […]

In other related news, no Occupier heard any fraction of what Hannan had to say because no Occupiers read Legal Insurrection.

We’re in an echo chamber, folks. So are they, and it’s a different echo chamber.

Move along.

    Echo chambers which double as crab buckets.

    Perhaps Hannan wasn’t trying to convince the Occupy crowd. Perhaps he was merely speaking to the audience at hand.

    All the same, the problem of the “echo chamber” as you put it (or “preaching to the choir” as I so state) is a reasonable concern. But there is something to be said for “clearing the air” amongst cordial minds. Sounding out ideas, dispatching misunderstandings, and clarifying language among friends is perfectly acceptable, especially in preparation for argument with the opposition.

    As for taking it to the enemy, what is a good forum? What do you suggest?

You can’t realistically fight the system. If the people who run the markets have trillions of dollars, they can buy congress for pennies on the dollar to further enrich themselves. Look at what they do to true believers like Newt. Even RR with all his gifted oratory, couldn’t move the system that much. He got the ball rolling on taxes, but by and large he was ineffective on the spending side.

As long as there is a drop to squeeze out of the country, monied and special interests will rule the day until collapse.

It is dissociation of risk which causes corruption. It is dreams of instant (or immediate) gratification which motivates its progress.

This is why welfare, whether for the poor or rich, is so objectionable. It is toxic, and like poisons, in sufficient quantity and concentration, has mortal or debilitating consequences.

Cornell West also spoke. Of course it was the same old Marxist, collective salvation folderol.

BannedbytheGuardian | January 20, 2013 at 10:44 pm

Britain made a tactical mistake in joining the EU. Now they are suffering & want out but Cameron won’t give them a referendum. He is too busy preaching gay marriage .

William Hague to whom Hannan was a speechwriter or sumthin lame is out trying to get his clammy Limey toes back into the former empire nations that are now booming.

Surprise – -‘ we are your partners in Asia & the Pacific ‘ FFS.

Hannan should go back & give some him some better speeches.

You guys are very gullible. Hannan is a wimp.

BannedbytheGuardian | January 20, 2013 at 11:49 pm

Apologies – that came over harsher than meant .

In short – British conservatives are fighting their own battles & are not anything to look up to. They have betrayed their voters & left them adrift.

America must find the way in yourselves. here is NOBODY out there who can help you.

BannedbytheGuardian | January 21, 2013 at 12:08 am

I just went over to Telegraph blogs & there is one just up this last hour by James Kirkup – who is one of the better young. Political journostohe there.

James states that UKIPs Nigel X accused Hague of being a Euro Man – that The Tories do not want to leave the EU but to make it better foo GB can stay.

Further , that with elections bearing down that Tory MPs will be nervous of UKIP challenges.. UKIP will be running on an anti EU platform.

Hannan is going to have to spin that one out to maintain his speaking tours.

Nice. Godwin’d three sentences into the quote.

Henry Hawkins | January 21, 2013 at 4:19 pm

Well, I have my 2016 presidential ticket in mind, but I can’t decide if I prefer Hannan or Netanyahu on the top line.

[…] » British MP Daniel Hannan delivers electrifying take down of Occupy – Le·gal In&… […]

TeaPartyPatriot4ever | January 22, 2013 at 12:15 am

Very Well Stated !!

I absolutely concur with this British MOP gentleman, Daniel Hannan. Winston Churchill was also incessantly trounced upon, politically kept down during his prior political career until he was appointed, elected PM during the onset of WWII.. because of the truth of those who constantly kept him down, the leftwing ideologs, were finally pushed out by the realities of the day, ie; of their own failures in asinine stupidity thinking, the indoctrination of and into marxist leftist ideology, appeasement, and capitulation, that which resulted in both the political and physical consequences of their actions.

[…] past weekend, Anne Sorock at Legal Insurrection linked to his recent take down of the Occupy Movement from an appearance at the Oxford […]

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