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Trayvon Martin case heading towards the political abyss

Trayvon Martin case heading towards the political abyss

I predicted Saturday night that the Trayvon Martin case was being set up for an explosive outcome in which expectations of a conviction faced the reality of the rights of an accused and evidence which cast “reasonable doubt” on what happened.

Two developments today make the facts supporting a conviction even murkier, and cast doubt on the simplistic narrative in the media since the beginning of the case of an out of control Neighborhood Watch vigilante who hunted down Martin with an intent to kill or capture because of Martin’s race.

First, the narrative of Martin being a young man free from trouble has been challenged, Family: pot linked to Trayvon Martin suspension:

 “A family spokesman says slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school last month for having a baggie that contained marijuana residue in his book bag.”

Remember, Zimmerman’s call to police said that there was a person acting strangely, as if “on drugs.”  If and when autopsy results are released, we will know if drugs played any part in the incident (although Zimmerman was not tested, presumably the autopsy did testing).

Second, more details are coming out about what happened in the moments before the shooting, Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head:

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say…

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, “Well, you do now” or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there’s been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon’s family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

If true, this would be what I was wondering might be the case.  An unintended up close and personal encounter which took an unexpectedly violent turn:

What was the geography?  Is there evidence Zimmerman continued to chase Martin after the 911 operator said it was not needed?  Was the shooting in a place where Zimmerman may have run into Martin while Zimmerman was heading towards a place he could be seen by police, or was the location indicative of Zimmerman still chasing Martin?

I still reserve judgment.  We only know some of the facts, and the facts we know may not be reliable.

But it is looking like this case is heading towards the political abyss.

Update: Via the comments, ABC News reports the following:

Martin’s girlfriend had said in a recording obtained exclusively by ABC News that she heard Martin ask Zimmerman “why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here.” She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead.

None of this is going to be easy on the Martin family any more than it is in so many cases where the conduct of a deceased loved one is an issue; keep in mind these people lost a son:

The family’s attorney, Ben Crump, said Martin son had been suspended for 10 days from his high school the day he was shot after traces of marijuana were found in his book bag. Martin’s father had said previously Trayvon was suspended after being found in an unauthorized area at the school.

“If he and his friends experimented with marijuana, that is completely irrelevant to George Zimmerman killing their son on the night of Feb. 26,” Crump said. “Law enforcement is attempting to demonize and blame the victim.”

“They killed my son, and now they are trying to kill his reputation,” Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother, said, holding back tears.

Unfortunately, these statements were made with Al Sharpton, someone who made a career of smearing innocent people for which he is unrepentent, standing at their side.

And, it gets worse, via Miami Herald:

Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.

Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry, was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

And, readers have been posting similar links over the past few days, and I really, really wanted it not to be him, but The Daily Caller says it is, so I’ll finally link.

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Comments

Question now is why haven’t charges been filed against the New Black Panther Party for making terroristic threats?

    Joan Of Argghh in reply to Karl Rogue. | March 26, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Are you kidding? They’re likely applying for a government grant for a drone. Eric Holder is giving them a complete pass.

    That’s how you rule, if you’re gonna rule: absolutely.

    GOP, please make a note of it.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Joan Of Argghh. | March 26, 2012 at 3:54 pm

      The milquetoast, wimpy GOP will never do anything about any of this. They’re too scared of the media to pull their heads out and take a stand for right and justice on any controversial matter. Their default position is always “Let justice take its course”, and that’s how we end up with the many unjust decisions against white citizens or the police taking place in cases where a black perp gets his just rewards or an honest mistake is made.

        “Let justice take its course”, and that’s how we end up with the many unjust decisions against white citizens or the police taking place in cases where a black perp gets his just rewards or an honest mistake is made.
        ————————————————–

        I sure hope I’m not the only one here who finds that despicably racist.

        But if I am…

        SHRUG!!!

I’ve said all along I believe (opinion only) this was jumped on purely for race baiting reasons and people were hoping for a scenario like this to develop so they could push gun laws.
well it may have backfired on them.

    Anchovy in reply to dmacleo. | March 26, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Funny you should mention the gun control agenda. Sunday, after years of not owning a hand gun (I was in law enforcement 20 years ago) I went to a gun store and bought a Glock 9MM. I had to wait in line for about 2 hours and they did not have the gun I wanted (Glock 40 S&W) and were not even taking orders.

    It seems many people are concerned that, if re-elected Obama, will move to make gun purchases and ownership much more difficult. Stock in Ruger has gone out of sight since 2008.

      IFTYS in reply to Anchovy. | March 26, 2012 at 2:45 pm

      Why you messing around with a 9mm?
      I picked up a S&W 45: http://ba.ecertum.com/pics/ssi/71998.jpg

      Very little kick, but packs a punch. Especially with the FMJ-HP

        Anchovy in reply to IFTYS. | March 26, 2012 at 5:26 pm

        After spending the Winter in Tucson where there were at least 18 Titan II missile sites, my goal was a small concealable nuclear device. I figured that if I had to use lethal force, I may as well obliterate the whole neighborhood so there would be no witnesses and it would be too radioactive for even Big Al or Little Jesse.

        Alas there are few available so I settled for a 9MM and figured I would go for accuracy rather than mega tonnage.

          dmacleo in reply to Anchovy. | March 26, 2012 at 8:10 pm

          but when you can toss a car out of the end of the barrel accuracy is moot point 🙂
          I need to get back into handguns, laid up so not much chance to practice though.

        SigSauer P220.

Joan Of Argghh | March 26, 2012 at 1:44 pm

I don’t know if it’s headed for the abyss. Some are already vetting Angela Corey, FL special prosecutor, as being decidedly racist and against civil rights.

She is, however, a Republican, so y’know how that will play.

I thought this was one courageous thing to do…

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/26/video-zimmerman-friend-calls-for-patience-in-investigation/

I love good Americans.

But it is looking like this case is heading towards the political abyss.

If no case against Zimmerman is found to exist, the Left should not be allowed to stuff the matter down the memory hole.

At the same time, conservatives should not forget that, with the connivance of the MSM, a leftist—an Obama—trick is to try to provoke an overreaction and then stand back acting baselessly attacked.

OFA…the campaign for our white Black President’s re-election…has a Tweet out flacking OFA hoodies.

Me, I’ll hold out for my OFA hearts NBPP merch.

If you’re still debating as to who was right, who was wrong..

you’re doing it wrong

One person knows who is right–currently filling the conservative shoes of the Great William F. Buckley Jr. over at NRO.

He has successfully identified who is right:

Rich Lowry: This time, Sharpton gets it right

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/columns-analysis/2012/03/26/rich-lowry-time-sharpton-gets-it-right/1172683

(As an added bonus, he also has all the fact)

This baby has been put to bed.

Thanks, Rich

    Ragspierre in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Well…to FULLY round out the insanity here…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

    See, it is really the corporations that killed Trayvon…who looked like our white Black President’s son.

    jasond in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Not so fast. Information on what happened is still coming out.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

    It appears Trayvon Martin became the aggressor when Zimmerman turned his back.

    “he also has all the fact” – nice sarcasm.

    Not a great day for Rich Lowry. Interesting that even when this was first reported there were comments about Zimmerman’s bloody head. If someone pursues you and shoots you while you’re innocently walking, they don’t usually have a bloody head afterward. A clear indicator that this was not to be an open and shut case.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to T D. | March 26, 2012 at 7:41 pm

      Oh, come on, now. You know Zimmerman shot Martin in cold blood, then went over and rolled on the wet lawn and then proceeded to lay his head down on that sidewalk and beat his own head on it until it bled, then bashed himself in his own nose until it bled, and those unbiased witnesses that called it in to 911 just imagined that someone was sitting or laying on Zimmerman’s chest.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Rich Lowry……whom I used to admire until he helped lead the charge against Newt, has blown it yet again. Already his and Sharpton’s theory of the case is imploding. The 911 tapes are going to show that Zimmerman brought off his surveillance of Martin when he lost him. That means that Martin wasn’t standing his ground when he overtly attacked Zimmerman. We also know that Martin was on the phone with his GF. That means if he was actually frightened he could have hung up and called 911 himself. Further, nobody, but nobody, can tell me that a slender, athletic 17 yr. old can’t outrun an overweight 28 yr. old if he was scared.

    Sorry Al, sorry Rich, doesn’t meet the smell test at all.

    logos in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Rich has acted as judge and jury in print. He is now eligible for a spot on the Duke University faculty! Perhaps, rich should approach the Reverend Al Shapton to write for the National Review.

    But, most importantly, rich has secured his name on the guest lists of DC’s “all the right people”. William f. Buckley would be so proud.

I’d like to see some recent photos of this “child” Trayvon.
I’d like to hear more about his school record and how he behaved in class.

If they’re going to go after the character of Zimmerman, then let’s take a look at Martin’s character.

If the kid was a hot head who got into fights, then it would not be a far reach to think that he got pissed off by having Zimmerman follow him.

Like the Professor says, not all of the facts are in yet.
So let’s get ALL of the facts, not just the ones that the MSM is using to inflame the situation.

    IFTYS in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    NYT Dennis Prager wrote: “A shooting in Florida of a black teenager has attracted a lot of attention. The shooter is described in the NY Times as a “white Hispanic.”

    I’m curious. Since when has the NY Times used the term “white Hispanic”?” And what the hell is a “white Hispanic?” I’ve seen a picture of the guy. He doesn’t look white. You might as well say the obama is a white black. Why is he called this? Because if he’s only hispanic, it takes away the leftist point that whites are racist. Everything the New York Times reports has an agenda.

    And one final thing. WHY must the media try to persuade viewers to a certain perception of the crime by using carefully crafted words or doctored photos?

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    The father claims Martin was suspended for 10 days for being in anunauthorized location, nothing violent. Really? Really? 10 days for THAT? I smell BS. There’s unconfirmed info I’m reading that Martin punched out a school bus driver. Did Martin get on the wrong bus deliberately, was told to get off by the driver, so punched him out? Why the rush to seal Martin’s school records if all he did was enter an unauthorized location? Perhaps the “unauthorized location” was the bus and he was told to get off, per policy or rules. There’s also info coming out that Martin was a lightweight drug dealer and gangster wannabe, photos of him throwing gang signs and uses the twitter name of something or other “nigga”. He sports tats, including one of his GF’s MOTHER’s name. Pretty weird.

    Gawd, a pretty damn far cry from the picture the slimestream is trying to paint. But another person’s life (Zimmerman’s) will be ruined because of this, just like that poor transit authority guy’s in Oakland was because blacks INSIST on it, no matter how unjust it is. And we MUST serve them up what they want on a platter so they won’t riot and loot. This is just sick.

    Ah, yes, Holder and “his people.” A $10k reward for Zimmerman, dead or alive. Any self-respecting AG would be pressing RICO against the NBPP for this. But Holder? Silence.

      BannedbytheGuardian in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 26, 2012 at 9:22 pm

      I also have seen those pics. However I still could not get an idea of martin’s height /weight. I am not fixating on this but it does show how little verifiable info is out there.

      BTW Sybrina is his mother’s name not his GF’s mother.

      Anyhow On with the Show.

I don’t believe the police would have released Mr. Zimmerman if they thought he committed murder.

The black community has always carried a grudge against the police.

I think the bigger issue here is why is the Black Panther party allowed to put out this bounty?

Gt with the meme – Hateful “WHITE” hispanic killing innocent black children. For every past real or perceived racist deed/comment this WHITE hispanic must be publically held accountable to ease the suffering of the African American community.

    I’m surprised that Hispanic politicians didn’t speak out on Zimmerman’s behalf, even if by forcefully calling for due process. Maybe they did and the MSM didn’t report it.

    Then again, nonCuban Hispanic pols tend to be Democrats, and Democrats tend to be good at flinging inconvenient relationships under the bus.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to katiejane. | March 26, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    One would think the dumb bastards would have learned their lesson with the Duke lacrosse case. Nope. Here we are, 5 years later, same story, same page, it’s deja vu all over again.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to katiejane. | March 26, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Fo the race hustlers ginning this up, it’s all about money and power. For the sheeple followers carrying the rally cry for them, it’s all about race and cultural hatred against whites. There’s no other reason why Zimmerman is being called a “white” Hispanic and a “cracker.”

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to katiejane. | March 27, 2012 at 1:05 am

    Duke lacrosse redux on that point.

I’m concerned that the information in the Orlando Sentinel article don’t seem to have shown up in the media accounts until now, and I’m wondering why it took a month for someone to report information which makes Zimmerman’s self defense claim credible.

Trayvon Martin was shot February 26th, and one month later, we’re seeing new information? Why didn’t we see it earlier? I’m astonished that the reporting could have been this one sided until now. The media should have given us more information earlier.

    It was a dastardly plot hatched by the Koch Bros. and Rush Limbaugh to hide exculpatory evidence until after such time the media and the President railed against the injustice, leaving them with this:

    http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2244846546_c7a2ffaeaf.jpg

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to A Classical Liberal. | March 26, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    Are you really astonished?

    Did you not follow the actions of the media in the Duke lacrosse case? Did you ever contrast that to the media activities in the Christian-Newsome murders in Knoxville? Have you not noticed the difference in media coverage between this case and the Allen Goin case in KC? I could list 100 cases of media black-out of horrible racial crimes against whites, Asians and Hispanics by blacks that you likely never heard a word about.

    Ragspierre in reply to franklaughter. | March 26, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Sort of an example of the “two wrongs” fallacy, innit?

    I DO get it if you are suggesting the drug thing as a means of combating the “innocent dead child” meme.

    But…whatever Trayvon’s character…the facts of the shooting are all that are right to apply to the shooting.

    And WRT that…we don’t know.

    Tamminator in reply to franklaughter. | March 26, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Thanks for the link.
    So the picture of the sweet 12 year old Trayvon is nothing like the 17 year old Trayvon.

    I had a feeling that the kid’s background was being whitewashed.
    More propaganda to make him seem like a complete innocent.

    There’s a reason that Zimmerman wasn’t charged a month ago, and obviously the family doesn’t like this and will use the media to resurrect their son’s killing.

    In the end, the truth will prevail whether the race baiters like it or not.

      Ragspierre in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 2:48 pm

      SANFORD, Fla. (AP) — A family spokesman says slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school last month for having a baggie that contained marijuana residue in his book bag.

      Maybe the family are not doing what you allege.

        Tamminator in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 3:09 pm

        Did you read the link that franklaughter provided?
        Martin’s online accounts were removed. Hence, the photos of him as a 17 year old.

        Do you think that Trayvon did that himself? Hmmm?

          Ragspierre in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 3:18 pm

          Would you leave your son’s accounts up in the circumstances?

          If you pulled them down, would you think it right that people inferred you were trying to “use the media to resurrect their son’s killing.”

          Perhaps you should bear in mind that…had the family not provided that information about the dope…it would not legally have come to light at all.

          Hmmmm….???

          Tamminator in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 3:38 pm

          Yes.

          Tamminator in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 4:19 pm

          I guess I’m wrong. The parents aren’t trying to “use the media to resurrect their son’s killing.”
          They’re using the media to keep his name in the news.
          Otherwise his name wouldn’t be worth anything or need to be trademarked.

          http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

          Seems like perfectly normal behavior from bereaved parents, don’t you think?

          Ragspierre in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 4:39 pm

          Actually, it seems like totally expected behavior from people beset by wolves of various stripes.

          You ever lost a child? I have a friend who lost her son in a car wreck days before his H.S. graduation. Her father came over to the house when she was at his wake, and took his stuff to put into storage. The kid’s friends took has social media stuff down, because they knew his mom would not know how.

          So, maybe a little compassion is in order.

          Tamminator in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 6:19 pm

          Rags:
          Where did you read that his friends took down his social media stuff? Link please!
          And if they took it down, how did they get his password?

          And what were they trying to hide from his parents? His drug activities?

          I have sympathy for the parent’s loss of their child.
          No sympathy for their public race baiting.
          None.

          Ragspierre in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 6:49 pm

          Tam,

          Read my post. I never said I had knowledge of who took his stuff down (or even IF some did).

          Put up your proof for your claims. Link please.

          I pointed out that the ONLY source for his possession of pot was HIS FAMILY. Which you conspicuously IGNORED. Why?

          I ALSO pointed you to Riehl’s MISTAKEN posting of the same pictures on the blog you used as REFERENCE.

          Why did you not have the integrity to at least acknowledge that ERROR in what you were sponsoring?

          Tamminator in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 7:57 pm

          What the hell does Riehl World have to do with these photos of Trayvon? http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer
          The same photo that Drudge is using, by the way.
          You never read that link, did you?

          I misread your post about your friend’s son and his online accounts and thought you were talking about Trayvon, but even if I misunderstood you, I still find it very interesting that Trayvon’s online accounts disappeared.

          You seem to want to make excuses for this kid’s actions. You’re bending over backwards to do it.
          Very odd.

          I thought you were all about the truth, Ragspiere?

          And I still don’t know what Riehl world has to do with any of this discussion.

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 8:09 pm

          The bottom line is that the parents could put an end to all of his strife by coming out and stating they want people to go about their business and let the system do its work. Instead, they say nothing like that, hire lawyers, trademark their dead kid’s name and “Justice for Trayvon”, etc, change their stories, and never explain why they didn’t even report him missing for three days. If they were ever concerned about justice for Trayvon, wouldn’t they have reported him missing sooner than three days?

          Tamminator in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 8:52 pm

          And now it’s being reported that “baby face” Trayvon had a backpack with women’s jewelry and a burglary tool in it.

          http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

          Truth. Coming. Out.

          BannedbytheGuardian in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 9:40 pm

          Riehlsworld is where Rags lived 24/7 before he unfortunately migrated here.

          The marjuana thing would have come out as I am sure the Florida authorities have oversight of all public school records.

          The family counsellor or something released it as harm reduction.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 7:58 pm

        “A FAMILY spokesman says…..” Gee, no bias there. But, oops, that conflicts with Mr. Martin Sr.’s account that his son was suspended for being in an unauthorized area.

        They really should get their story straight and stick to it…just to maintain a tiny modicum of credibility.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Tamminator. | March 26, 2012 at 4:42 pm

      The family just wants to get paid. They didn’t even report their “good boy” as missing for 3 days. Apparently the father and mother are both now saying that it was Trayvon’s voice on the 911 tape yelling for help, when originally they unequivocally said it was not Trayvon’s voice. They want the jack, that’s all.

        BannedbytheGuardian in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm

        Another confusion. I read that 3 day account but it was clarified on another (pro Martin ) site that the father did report him missing the next morning & received a prompt visit by the Police.

        But of course I have no idea coz I am just readin stuff like everyone else.

    Ragspierre in reply to franklaughter. | March 26, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Click over to Reihl’s blog.

    There you will find that the pictures in that blog post are NOT the Martin kid shot in Florida.

    Dan Reihl made the same mistake, and corrected it.

    An example of how you retain journalistic integrity. Or simply tell the truth.

Folks, this is a classic case for what the Castle Defense law was written.

Zimmerman is the victim and the perp/offender is dead. He will not be punching any more white people from now on.

If you don’t have a concealed carry permit, now is the time to get one (while you still can).

[…] take the time to click here and read William Jacobson’s clear-headed analysis on what we know so far. Share this:TwitterEmailFacebookMoreStumbleUponRedditDiggLike this:LikeBe […]

I just hate it when the facts get in the way of a good ol’ politically instigated race war.

Angela is definitely not racist!

Midwest Rhino | March 26, 2012 at 2:43 pm

From the perspective of “fairness”, we need all the facts. From the perspective of countering the damage done from the biased news cycle hysterics, perhaps an equally broad and biased histrionic account, featuring Zimmerman as the hero, should be told nationwide, with prayer vigils.

“Someone was going to die” said George’s long time friend. A kid apparently on drugs, with a history of drug problems, appeared up to no good, was walking through back yards of a gated community with a rash of burglaries.

A neighborhood watchman observed his actions and called 911, while keeping track of the youths movements. Zimmerman, heading back to his truck, was accosted by the youth. “Have you got a problem? Well you’ve got one now”.

The 6’3″ youth knocked Zimmerman to the ground with a blow to the nose, then slammed his head into the sidewalk repeatedly. Zimmerman’s screams for help can be heard on observers 911 calls. After being beaten for some time, Zimmerman was able to pull his gun, there was a struggle, and the youth was shot.

But I’m no journalist … and that story is too accurate to fit their sensationalist standards. And I’d need supporting articles of how another potential crime was stopped thanks to an armed citizen. “This would have been just another dead white Hispanic, lost in the drug wars, if he had not carried a weapon.” I’m sure plenty of inflammatory rhetoric could be used to demonize one side, and make the other seem purely innocent.

    Ragspierre in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 26, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    “…perhaps an equally broad and biased histrionic account, featuring Zimmerman as the hero, should be told nationwide, with prayer vigils.”

    Count me on the side that says you counter untruthful BULLSHIT with the truth.

    I think that is being Breitbart.

      Midwest Rhino in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 3:18 pm

      good point

      the point I tried to make was that there is real damage done by the false narratives that pass for news. Corrections are a footnote, all too often. At least the “rest of the story” should get big play. LI did offer the other parent’s view, early on, but it did not inspire prayer vigils.

      News that is a soap opera with made up “facts” is now what inspires vigils and mob backlash. Attacks on Rush were huge, then after the news cycle, Maher tells everyone to calm down, pay no attention to him.

      Breitbart could also be pretty sensational, as the take down of ACORN showed. Truth should be bigger than fiction.

        Ragspierre in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm

        I think we agree (with your last post).

        What the Breitbart genius was…to my mind…entailed getting the truth out in a compelling way, and a way that could not successfully be wished (i.e., LIED) away by the Collectivists.

        It goes back to my point (oft repeated) about messaging. We CAN and HAVE TO BE effective at telling the truth, and seen to have an absolute commitment to it…even when we might be damaged by admitting wrongs.

          Midwest Rhino in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 4:40 pm

          yeah, making the truth compelling seems to be important for the news cycle.

          Maybe I’d preface an alternative narrative this way, if it made big news.

          “Or it might have happened THIS way, consider this before you put a bounty of Mr. Zimmerman’s head. So far we only have few facts and a lot of supposition. So suppose THIS”.

          Like the movie “He Said, She Said”, where the same story is told from two perspectives, seemingly opposite stories. But of course that is not how major media with an agenda works. But my original point was an alternative version as biased, might provoke thought, even if it was pointed out that it was as full of biased suppositions as the original.

          As with negative/dishonest ads against Newt that work, it would be nice to have a force to partly “unring” that bell. But the tried and tested answer to negative ads seems to be negative ads. Lies go around the world before truth gets out of bed. heh

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 26, 2012 at 4:55 pm

        I agree. Fight fire with true fire, early and often.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 4:53 pm

      A show of support for somebody does not have to be based in lies. Highlighting the evidence that points to innocence is not untruthful. Highlighting evidence that the media deliberately ignores for the sake of their pro-black, pro-obama, anti-white agenda is one’s civic duty, considering the point where obama and Holder have taken race in this country.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Blacks would be rioting with glee in the streets if Trayvon had shot Zimmerman, with Trayvon controlling the narrative of what happened. And, since it was Zimmerman’s gun with CCW, the gungrabbers would be having the time of their lives.

      I’d call that a racist thing to say.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 4:58 pm

        Call it whatever you like. It’s true, and you know it. Hell, his friends twittered congrats to him posthumously for giving Zimmerman a beatdown.

        Maybe you missed the black response to the OJ verdict.

        *SHRUG*

          I don’t think of people in clumps like that.

          I think that is what idiots do.

          SHRUG.

          Fascinating.

          So…like the Collectivists…some of you approve of thinking of groups instead of individuals.

          Identity politics lives here, too.

          Damn.

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 27, 2012 at 1:20 am

          Blacks choose not to integrate and to live as a monolithic bloc. The demand their “black community” and “African-American”, and all their other racial identity BS and “separatist” organizations and programs through which they segregate themselves while demanding the rest of us pay for their poor choices and damaging culture – damaging to them and everyone around them.

Uncle Samuel | March 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm

Pay attention to the Professor, he wrote: “Remember, Zimmerman’s call to police said that there was a person acting strangely, as if “on drugs.”

Let’s wait for all the evidence.

Maybe they should call in Dr. Henry C. Lee or one of his top students.

    Let’s wait for all the evidence.

    Absolutely. The most recent revelations are favorable to Zimmerman, but they are not conclusive.

    That said, IMO a physically overmatched person whose head is repeatedly slammed into a concrete sidewalk deserves the benefit of the doubt for responding with deadly force.

      Fluffy Foo Foo in reply to gs. | March 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm

      I totally agree with you. But why isn’t there any audio out of the girlfriend talking to Trayvon?

      That’s the key piece of evidence behind the outrage and hasn’t been played in public yet.

        A quick google indicates that cell phone calls are not recorded.

        If US intelligence agencies are recording surreptitiously, it is highly unlikely that they would divulge their activities because of the current incident.

          Fluffy Foo Foo in reply to gs. | March 26, 2012 at 3:44 pm

          So all there is the girlfriend’s testimony which who knows how much was changed by her attorney?

          Lord have mercy.

          BannedbytheGuardian in reply to gs. | March 26, 2012 at 9:56 pm

          There would be a recording of the time & duration . An re enactment could further help but we will never know the actual words.

          No doubt she will have been coached to fit n exactly what is needed but she would still be an iffy witness on the stand. A good defense attorney could break her if in fact she is lying.

          If she isn’t then it needs to be taken into account & will be .

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | March 26, 2012 at 5:06 pm

        Why would there be a recording of that?

        The GF gets to make it up as she wishes, or tell the truth. Obviously, she is going to be biased toward Trayvon and his parents, so I would take what she says with a grain of salt. What she did say originally was that Trayvon said he was being followed. That doesn’t help Trayvon, and she eventually will figure that out with the help of the Martin’s lawyer.

        Bystanders unknown to both parties are more reliable witnesses as to what took place during those several minutes that they were calling 911 over the beatdown of Zimmerman they were seeing and calling about contemporaneously.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to gs. | March 27, 2012 at 1:37 am

      The real question is at what point of revelation of facts to the public do we decide, as individuals, as to whether or not we agree with the conclusion the police and DA Wolfinger previously reached.

      If the question is, as is being stated by the media and the “black community”, did Zimmerman murder Martin, I believe there is enough extant information to conclude that the police and DA were correct originally.

      To claim there must be a trial in order to know these things is as absurd and frightening as it was when the same thing was said in the Duke lacrosse case. I think back to the super-heroic efforts the defense team had to take just to get the AG to look at what Nifong had done. Without that, those boys would be serving 40 years apiece for a crime that never occurred. It was a racial witchhunt, and this is no different. That intelligent people are falling for this again sickens me. People actually said, “If they’re innocent, they can prove it in a trial”, and that continued even after Nifong’s DNA scam was exposed.

      The concept that “If he’s innocent he can prove it at trial” should send shivers down everyone’s backs. It’s a little bit akin to Nancy Pelosi stating that we have to pass the bill in order to find out what’s in it.

      Repeat: That concept should scare the hell out of people.

      But it doesn’t. Not even here.

Fluffy Foo Foo | March 26, 2012 at 3:08 pm

I can’t believe the media relied upon the accusations of the girlfriend’s attorney, without a transcript or audio of the cellphone conversation.

They just all believed that proved Zimmerman’s was a cold blooded racist killer.

WTF??!!??

We’re descending into total social madness. It is very hard for a free society to survive such unending assaults of bad faith. This is the Left’s objective. I wish I saw a way out. When reason no longer functions as a dependable social operation, what happens? How do we not turn to violence?

    Ragspierre in reply to raven. | March 26, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    This time isn’t unique, and it isn’t even as bad as its ever been in America.

    We have tools now we never had before.

      raven in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 5:52 pm

      No, it is unique. Too many distinguishing features to list but chief among them: the decay of a basic shared notion of governance, the rootedness and spread of a unified totalitarian class throughout the culture as never before (academy, media, entertainment, democrat party. The radical anti-American Left was ALWAYS a fringe movement in America. It now interconnectedly occupies the center of the culture), the nearly total corruption of the media not merely in the quaint sense of sensationalism for profit but of subversion of meanings and of America for maliciously ideological and political purpose, the wildly expanding size of government, the civic ignorance and even civic self-loathing produced in the young by modern education (including a fear and loathing of inconvenient free speech — the most important kind), the substitution of self-ennobling emotion for skepticism in science, a morally compromised and fearful Republican resistance…

      I agree there are tools we didn’t have before, but these tools are also available to the worst among us, who are more ruthless in exploiting them. To say things were worse in US history might be true but hard to measure. I would say until the media can be overthrown or neutralized, the drift toward social madness will not be stopped.

The issue is that punching someone and hitting his/her head on the ground is probably only a battery, not an aggravated battery and the breaking of someone’s nose is probably not great bodily harm. A battery is only a misdemeanor under Florida law, so use of deadly force by Zimmerman is probably not permitted.

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013 [defense of home–not applicable]

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.

Aggravated battery.—
(1)(a) A person commits aggravated battery who, in committing battery:
1. Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or
2. Uses a deadly weapon.
(b) A person commits aggravated battery if the person who was the victim of the battery was pregnant at the time of the offense and the offender knew or should have known that the victim was pregnant.
(2) Whoever commits aggravated battery shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

784.03 Battery; felony battery.—
(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.

    Henry Hawkins in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Tell me, Jimbo. Forget the Martin case. Let’s say you have me on the ground and you’re punching me in the face and slamming my head into the concrete. Is it reasonable for me to assume you might continue until I am dead, or am I legally bound to wait and see if you stop? Does it make any sense to you whatsoever that the reason you may have committed ‘only’ a battery is only because I shot you before you could kill me?

    Dunno if you’re a moron, but I couldn’t pick you out of a lineup of morons.

      You hit back. You don’t shoot at his chest two feet away.

        Ragspierre in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 3:33 pm

        Says the omniscient sage, sitting in an air conditioned space at a keyboard.

          Browndog in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 3:51 pm

          Indeed.

          Knowing every blow to your skull could be your last, every single human being on Earth would succumb to survival instinct, and do whatever it took to make it stop.

          That is, everyone except Jimbo.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 5:16 pm

        You can’t be serious.

        AmandaFitz in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 6:50 pm

        1) WAS he two feet away, or was it a contact gunshot? I don’t know, do you?

        2) If Trayvon Martin actually looked like the twelve year old kid whose photo is being used by his parents and the MSM, and if George Zimmerman actually looked like the orange jumpsuit mug shot the MSM is using, I “might” agree with you, BUT Martin’s more recent photos show a big seventeen year old, not a little kid. He could have killed Zimmerman by slamming his head onto the concrete.

      LukeHandCool in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      “Dunno if you’re a moron, but I couldn’t pick you out of a lineup of morons.”

      I don’t condone namecalling like this but LOL 🙂

    Ragspierre in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    “A battery is only a misdemeanor under Florida law, so use of deadly force by Zimmerman is probably not permitted.”

    Probably you don’t know what you’re writing about.

    Probably.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Bashing someone’s head on a concrete sidewalk is different, in terms of physical damage and likelihood of causing death or permananet brain damage, than say, beating them with a bat, crow bar or rock……exactly how?

    I think you can get to a felony in that circumstance fairly easily. If it were I, there would be no question in my mind that my life was in danger.

    Steve in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Concussion and striking the unprotected head with a blunt object ( i.e. concrete) is grievous bodily harm and life threatening. Did you know that’s how Boomerangs kill small game ? by Bludgeon.

    One does not require a weapon to be using deadly force. One does not have to be confronted with a weapon to be in fear of one’s life, or one’s property. in the scenario as we currently understand it Zimmerman could have stated he was afraid he was going to be robbed and still been justified by the statute.

    You conveniently left out Para 3 which applies directly to the case (ARe you a troll? Smell like one!):

    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—…… a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
    …. .

    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    logos in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Are you an attorney?

    Spoken like a man who never has had someone sit on his chest and bash his head repeatedly against a concrete slab.

Fluffy Foo Foo | March 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm

I’m waiting for Ta-Nehisi Coates to write something on his blog today. He hasn’t written since the morning of March 23 on this story, which he pushed and pushed and pushed.

http://www.theatlantic.com/ta-nehisi-coates/

TNC… not a journalist.

Uncle Samuel | March 26, 2012 at 3:17 pm

Here is Jesse Jackson at work declaring Treyvon innocent and a martyr – working up his congregation and putting thoughts in to their heads – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tW1w0M9OV4s

Meanwhile the Panthers got Zimmerman kicked out of school – http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/03/26/black-panther-threats-get-hispanic-man-kicked-out-of-college/

Where were Jackson, Ferrakhan, Sharpton, Spike Lee, the Black Panthers and Obama when this happened in 2009: http://teresainfortworth.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/mr-president-if-i-had-a-son/

And this happened on March 4, just a week after the Martin/Zimmerman incident:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/teenagers-set-boy-on-fire_n_1320993.html
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-boy-set-on-fire,0,7105614.story

For these children, victims of intentional race-based hate crimes, there were no apologies, no calls for justice, no marches, no memorial services and no expressions of condolence from the Rose Garden.

Statistics show the sad truth about violent crime. The majority of crime is committed by blacks against blacks, whites against whites, but the majority of two race crimes are blacks against whites.

DOJ statistics on murders from 1976 to 2005:
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Other DOJ numbers:
White-on-black crimes (90,717)
Black-on-white crimes (429,444).
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

Again, I believe this is being blown up for political gain, to keep the black vote for Obama, although the record shows his presidency has hurt black jobs, incomes and businesses (as I posted on an earlier thread).

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Uncle Samuel. | March 26, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Jesse also backed Crystal Mangum, the stripper/hooker in the Duke lacrosse case. So did the NBPP.

    Then they back-pedaled, even well before the phony DNA scam came out.

    Look for Jesse, et. al., to be throwing their Scwinns into reverse any day now.

    And I think we can safely say Santorum won’t be getting the Hispanic vote.

    beloved2 in reply to LukeHandCool. | March 26, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Dateline did a very slanted story on DATELINE last night but a couple of things stood out. Besides that of Trayvon trying to get George’s gun,there was also witnesses of people who saw Trayvon fracturing George’s nose and smashing the back of his head on the cement, they said they saw Travyon on top of George. The Martins’tried to make the story of a child with a tea beverage and a cell phone. Trayvon had no identification. Everybody carries their driving license even when not in a car unless they are casing homes for a burglary. If Trayvon was just going to the convenience store for a beverage, why didn’t the father notice that his teenager did not return? It took police a whole day to identify the body because of no ID. Why weren’t the parents contacting the police department when he didn’t return from the convenience store? Nobody in his family was looking for him? Why wasn’t the girlfriend on the phone to his parents during the time he was missing?
    Stinketh to high heaven. God will ultimately judge Jesse Jackson and Obama, the Black Panthers and Spike Lee for stoking the hellfire of racism. May God protect the innocent Zimmerman family from those lunatics.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to beloved2. | March 26, 2012 at 5:24 pm

      You raise a brilliant question about the GF. If Trayvon told her he was being followed, and then the line went dead, why wasn’t she calling 911 or his dad that he was staying with out of concern?

      Could it be that she knew what he was up to and didn’t want to have to rat him out and/or insert herself into a scenario in which she knew criminal activity was going on?

      logos in reply to beloved2. | March 26, 2012 at 6:17 pm

      You struck a nerve with your logical and sensible questions: hence your two down thumbs.

    janitor in reply to LukeHandCool. | March 26, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    So when did Zimmerman take his gun out?

So it should be simple enough to determine if Martin’s fingerprints are on the gun, right?

    Ragspierre in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Excellent example of “CSI-itus”.

    NOPE. Fingerprints are very often not useful. At. All.

      jimbo3 in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 3:40 pm

      Except if they can only find Zimmerman’s prints on the gun, it would throw doubt on his story that the kid went for his gun, right?

        Ragspierre in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 3:52 pm

        Wrong! Who handled the gun last?

        There could NO fingerprints from Mr. Martin on a gun he was struggling for.

        RIGHT?

          jimbo3 in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 3:58 pm

          Not necessarily. If he’s grabbed the gun at any point, there should be fingerprints. And if he hadn’t, then it’s tougher to believe the kid tried to grab it.

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm

          Good grief!!! A sliding hand leaves no usable prints.

          A hand involved with clothing leaves no usable prints.

          The act of replacing a gun (innocently) to carry or call could smear prints.

          Do you understand the FIRST FLUKING thing about the rules of evidence?

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 5:30 pm

          Right.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to jimbo3. | March 26, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    No. If they were struggling with the gun, the prints will very likely be smeared and useless.

From the perspective of a Black father of 2 boys, this case is troubling on several levels. I’m also an attorney, and am familiar with SYG and SD laws as it relates to the use of deadly force.

On one point, I have no use for Jackson or Sharpton, as their personal lives differ from that of what “men of the cloth” should be. They have become very wealthy by stoking the grievances of minorities, most of whom are Black. Some of the grievances are imagined, some are fabricated, but some are real.

As it relates to Black defendants, the criminal justice system works very efficiently…. hyper-efficiently to a degree. Many of my law school classmates went on to become prosecutors. I am familiar with how DA’s take cases with less evidence than in the subject one, and bring a laundry list of charges to give to the jury. I am also familiar with how DA’s use the threat of mostly White juries to push weak cases of Black defendant to plea to longer sentences, where White defendant’s are offered less time. In most instances, the only difference in the cases is how the defendants look.

On another level though, what is known is that an armed man shot an unarmed kid. True, the media used old pictures to play up a narrative. My question is, what difference does it makes what Trayvon Martin looks like? Especially when, no one, including Zimmerman, puts a weapon in his hand?

Obviously a confrontation occurred, after the operator indicated to Zimmerman that he did not need to follow the kid. They obviously had words, and a fight occurred, at which point, Martin was shot and killed.

The real concern I have is, why wasn’t the case given to a grand jury to consider a range of charges from Murder 1, down to criminally negligent homicide or reckless endangerment. If the grand jury had return a “No-Bill” given the evidence, we would not see the media circus we have today. I certainly would not have my current concerns.

I don’t think what occurred between Zimmerman and Martin was racial. But to think race and classism don’t play a factor in the criminal justice system is naive. And if Martin looked liked “one of those Black people”, who is to say Zimmerman’s word wasn’t taken at face value by the police, when it should have gotten a little more scrutiny.

Are we floating the suggestion that despite Martin not having a weapon, but having gold teeth and tattoos, that it gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman, who is on record as being clearly agitated before the confrontation?

I have a Black friend, who (is) was a professional, sitting in prison for the next 18 months on a 15 year sentence. His offense? Beating up his brother in law. The real offense? Being married to a White woman, and beating up his White brother in law, who reached into a car window and tried to choke my friend’s wife. The 12 member jury heard how he was a raging out of control beast, and how we needed to send a message to the community… My friend’s a grocery store manager driving a minivan.

In that case, no plea bargain was offered to my friend. His White brother in law was allowed to plead out to a misdemeanor and probation. He actually was drunk that day and had assaulted other people at the party.

As a father, who is to say someone will not think my sons “looks” suspicious? If so, what happens then? Do I have my sons explain themselves to everyone (who is not law enforcement) who demands them to give account? And at what point is that debasing to a man?

True, if my son suffers violence, there is a strong possibility that it will be at the hands of another Black person who is a thug. If that person is known, without question, he will go to jail.

The flip side of that coin is, my sons will also have to interact with Whites in this society… and often they can’t tell, or don’t care to know, the difference between the two. That’s when it gets real dicey: A Black kid, a White person; and the criminal justice system.

In short, one danger you can prepare for; the other you can’t.

    Ragspierre in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    I hope everyone here reads your post very carefully. That said I wanted to make a couple of observations:

    “I am familiar with how DA’s take cases with less evidence than in the subject one, and bring a laundry list of charges to give to the jury.”

    This is something InstaPundit (Glenn Reynolds, another law professor) has written about. It is DECIDEDLY a problem, and nobody who is a Conservative should be unaware of it. As with quite a few other police and prosecutor practices, we need to be ACTIVE in trying to maintain a balance between good law enforcement and tyranny. But it is NOT a problem unique to one race or another.

    “I am also familiar with how DA’s use the threat of mostly White juries to push weak cases of Black defendant to plea to longer sentences, where White defendant’s are offered less time. In most instances, the only difference in the cases is how the defendants look.”

    Again, I agree in very large part, but I see the issue as one, again, not unique to race. It is very often a matter of the education, intelligence, and ability of a defendant to mount a defense. I see plea bargains struck WAY too often (and I don’t personally practice criminal law).

    I hope those don’t seem like mere quibbles, but I thought them worth noting.

    Fluffy Foo Foo in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    I’m with you on taking it to a grand jury is probably the best way to handle a case like this. The reason the DA didn’t do is because he or she does not have to if they recognize no crime.

    Again, this gets us back to the facts of the case. We don’t all of them or what the DA looked at. If it appears it was self-defense it appears it was self-defense.

    Tough call, but the grand jury is probably the better call.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | March 26, 2012 at 5:47 pm

      The GJ is a political “out” for the DA. He/she is succumbing to racial pressure.

      Unbiased witnesses saw a man attacked and being beaten on a sidewalk. He shot his attacker. I think the police made the right call, as did the original DA.

        Fluffy Foo Foo in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 26, 2012 at 7:27 pm

        I think that is basically right, but maybe the default thing to do when there is a killing of any kind is to grand jury it. That way the procedure is as fair in the eyes of the public as possible. People might still be pissed, but what will they be able to do if a grand jury doesn’t indict the shooter?

        I get not charging him based on what facts they had… but a killing is a killing and its need to be impartial as possible. Not that the DA wasn’t, but you need to show it to the whole world.

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | March 27, 2012 at 2:05 am

          It really depends on the state’s rules for presenting cases to the GJ, and what all evidence the defendant can bring in on his own behalf. This varies among states.

          But generally the DA can get an indictment if he/she really wants it. If you don’t think they act in political realities, you are dreaming. Any time a defendant or his actions are exposed to an examination, he is in jeopardy. That’s all well and good when the DA believes there is possibly enough evidence to prove that a crime was committed and the defendant at hand committed it. In other words, an honest and heartfelt belief in the case exists. But when it’s brought to a GJ to appease an unruly mob, then it is terribly wrong and a deep insult to the rule of law. The police investigated the case. They gave it to the DA to review. He believed there was not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman and that it was self-defense. This happened before the media firestorm and race merchants got into the act. Then the media and the race merchants latched onto it and stirred up their troops. So that DA said he’d take it to the GJ. But that wasn’t good enough for the mob. Now we have a special prosecutor appointed who is taking it to a GJ made up of real, live people who are also under racial political pressure. once political pressure is the controlling factor, no call is a good call, and that’s why I disagree with the entire way this is being handled and believe it’s just another anti-white, race-based lynching – just like the Duke lacrosse case and the Oakland transit case. And let’s throw in Ramos and Campeon while we’re at it, and so many others, including people trying to protect their private property and families along the southern border.

          Why do you think they’re calling Zimmerman a “white” Hispanic?

    Thank you for taking the time to post in depth, Cubz_Fan. I’m sorry to read about your friend’s unjust treatment. For protecting his wife.

    If we need a reminder that all the facts are not in, your post gives it. A couple of thoughts to add to Rags’:

    1. I haven’t pulled a trigger since my Vietnam-era military training, nor am I legally or medically trained. However, if the back of my head were being slammed against a concrete surface, I might react with the first countermeasure at hand without considering alternatives; absent additional information, I lean toward the benefit of the doubt for someone who reacted as I might have.

    2. The fact that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch volunteer, and hence a (peripheral) part of the law enforcement system, may have influenced how the police went about the investigation. I’m not alleging outright malfeasance, just wondering if judgment calls might have been shaded.

      Tamminator in reply to gs. | March 26, 2012 at 4:50 pm

      And don’t forget that there had been several burglaries right before this incidence occurred.
      That would certainly make the neighborhood watchers a bit more vigilant if they saw a stranger in the area.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to gs. | March 27, 2012 at 2:09 am

      DA Wolfinger reviewed the case after the investigation and concluded there wasn’t enough evidence to convict Zimmerman for any crime. Wolfinger is pretty far removed from a neighborhood watch guy.

    logos in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    CubzFan

    I appreciated your reasoned and thoughtful comments. There are no easy solutions to your points.

    You asked: My question is, what difference does it makes what Trayvon Martin looks like?

    First, perhaps, Martin’s appearance became a valid issue in rebuttal to the media’s attempt to control the narrative by circulating a childhood picture of Martin – thus, leading the public to believe an adult shot a child.

    that type of thing is inflammatory and incites violence.

    One could also ask: what difference does it make what George Zimmerman looks like?

    Answer: Because George Zimmerman is not white – as the media attempts to portray.

    BannedbytheGuardian in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Most of your post is based on this “friend” -a truck driver.

    As it is public record -your argument should include the case number so we can check it out.

    Or at least a name date & location.

    scfanjl in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    We all, no matter our color, worry about these things for our children and loved ones. If my sons are out late at night and are in the wrong place at the wrong time, they too may “look suspicious.” My husband could be accused of rape and everyone will assume he is guilty till he tries to prove a negative.

    Proving innocence is not possible that’s why we are innocent until proven guilty. If we let previous injustices cloud that, it will only lead to more injustice.

Listening to Hannity now talk about this case. He has a barrage of black callers who are worked up that clearly don’t have the correct information. It’s just sad.

This has degenerated into a media circus and I now doubt anyone will ever really know what happened. But this does not preclude from people trying to cash in on what is a terrible indictment of our times.

Cubz_Fan | March 26, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Thank you for your comment. Yes, preconceived ideas and stereotypes abound and are unfair, regardless of race, color, ethnicity, sex. Therein lies the crux of the problem.

That said, how do we reconcile this with what has happened?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

    DizzyMissL in reply to MAB. | March 26, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Unbelievable.

    Cubz_Fan in reply to MAB. | March 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Interesting… The parent’s have likely run across the sale and distribution of t-shirts, bumper stickers, for profit rallys, etc. using their son’s likeness. They are likely trying to stop others from profiting from the controversy and case.

    If it were me, that issue would be the last thing on my mind. But with advisers, comes…. Another reason why I detest Jackson and Sharpton; they are likely setting themselves up as the gate-keepers of all things “Trayvon Martin”, and getting a little taste of the action (10% honorarium) on the side of course.

    For me, it was always about the kid and Zimmerman. It’s a shame

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Cubz_Fan. | March 26, 2012 at 6:31 pm

      “They are likely trying to stop others from profiting from the controversy and case.”

      Oh, come on now. Do you really believe that? I mean, really and truly?

    gs in reply to MAB. | March 26, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    That said, how do we reconcile this with what has happened?

    A charitable interpretation: She could be doing it to prevent anyone else from getting the trademark, i.e. so people do not make money off her son’s death.

    An uncharitable interpretation: People are lining up to make money off Martin’s death. A trial is urged because it would make the narrative more profitable regardless of outcome.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to gs. | March 26, 2012 at 6:35 pm

      If it was only to prevent others from using his name, then why not more phrases than just the two chosen for the trademarks? Why did these people hire civil lawyers so soon after their son’s death?

      PAYDAY

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to MAB. | March 26, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    It’s wonderful to see the parents, who didn’t even report their son missing for 3 days, working so hard to overcome their grief. I know that if my son was shot while beating someone, I, too, would seek a trademark on his name within a month of his death. That surely would go a long way toward assuaging my pain and sense of loss.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to MAB. | March 27, 2012 at 2:15 am

    Why wouldn’t we know? Zimmerman’s account comports with unbiased witness statements and the physical evidence pertaining to Zimmerman’s injuries.

    It ain’t rocket surgery.

I agree that it looks like the media is spinning this and race baiting.

But, one thing that bothers me is they say the back of Zimmerman’s head was bloody but when they found them they were on the grass.

How could his head be bloody?

    The comments in the story released today regarding what Zimmerman told police upon arriving at the scene, was that he was sucker punched and fell to the ground and Martin was repeatedly slamming his head into the sidewalk. Since sidewalk generally end at a point and are usually next to grass, I assume you can figure out how grass stains on the shirt and bleeding head wound from being bashed into the sidewalk are reconcilable.

[…] The Trayvon/Martin incident is a top story all around the internet.  One of the most interesting takes on it can be read here at Legal Insurrection. […]

“Is there evidence Zimmerman continued to chase Martin after the 911 operator said it was not needed?”

What if there is? So what? This is not a dictatorship, and if it were 911 operators would not be the kings. We are not obliged to obey their orders, let alone to take their advice. The operator told him he didn’t have to chase Martin. OK, so he didn’t have to. It’s not as if he had previously thought he had some such obligation! He knew all along that his work was voluntary, but he chose to do it for the good of his neighbourhood. That’s called being a good citizen. And the question remains what Martin was doing there, what he was up to when Zimmerman interrupted him, and what he would have got up to had he not been interrupted. Some householder in that building is probably lucky that Zimmerman was there.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Milhouse. | March 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    i agree. The entire “911 operator said no need to follow him” is a canard. I would trust my own judgment over a 911 operator’s any day. They are not standing in the shoes of the caller. In addition, many are poorly trained and not the brightest bulbs in the pack.

A seventeen year old found with weed at school does not really help us understand what happened the night between Zimmerman and Martin. I assumed Trayvon Martin was not a perfect angel (what 17 year old is?). Truth is there are not enough facts know to us yet to determine what might have happened that night and who is liable for what.

Which is why these pundits trying to guess who is culpable need to chill out a bit.

And Rick Santorum, that includes you. http://evilbloggerlady.blogspot.com/2012/03/rick-santorum-calls-trayvon-martins.html

    Ragspierre in reply to EBL. | March 26, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    Eleventy percent RIGHT.

    Milhouse in reply to EBL. | March 26, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    The fact that he was far from a perfect angel makes it more likely that he was up to no good that night, and that Zimmerman’s suspicions, far from being paranoid or racist as the hatemongers’ narrative has it, were perfectly reasonable.

      Henry Hawkins in reply to Milhouse. | March 26, 2012 at 5:48 pm

      Criminal cases do not proceed on ‘more than likely’.

        Ragspierre in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 5:55 pm

        The rules of evidence also EXPRESSLY exclude any evidence that is irrelevant to the events.

        Like previous criminal history, with a few exceptions.

        OR evidence introduced to try to show conduct in conformity with something that happened in the past, with a few exceptions.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 6:05 pm

        No, of course not and they shouldn’t. But reasonable suspicion by a layperson to ntoice and continue observing a suspicious person in light of documented criminal activity in the area is altogether different.

        It’s apparent to me that that is what Milhouse was referring to. Let’s not mix up our apples with our oranges.

          It is the same pure (corrupt) conjecture that ALL of us should be fighting.

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 26, 2012 at 6:45 pm

          Rags at 6:17pm: Then why have neighborhood watches at all? Why allow citizens to report any suspicious activity they observe just in passing? That’s what the poster was talking about – Zimmerman’s original suspicion for noticing and following Martin, not a pending criminal case against Zimmerman.

          Are you a supporter of the TSA’s propensity to strip search little old white-haired ladies in walkers rather than profile for actual terrorists?

          I’ll just leave that affront…those affronts…to logic hanging there.

      Freddy in reply to Milhouse. | March 26, 2012 at 7:50 pm

      You could say the same thing about Zimmerman, who is also no angel. (Who is?)

Why do I get the sinking feeling that this may end up like the Rodney King beating trial? An acquittal (or a refusal to bring the case to court) followed by murdering and looting. Martin Luther King’s dream of people being judged by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin seems to be growing more distant every day.

My wife is a black African woman, I am white, and our biological son is a mixture. I am sickened to my core that there are those who want to exploit race for political gain. It is my six-year-old son who will be caught in a kind of no-man’s land where he will be pressured to “take sides” when he should not have to choose at all.

[…] Insurrection is still withholding judgement but I suspect that a Whitehouse worried about re-election will play this for all it’s worth […]

I like the meme: “We don’t know what happened–there needs to be an investigation”.

Like the Sanford Police Dept. didn’t do an investigation. Like the police department is either corrupt or incompetent, or both.

Sorry, I’m still stuck on the “Grand Jury” thing-

What new evidence has come to light since the shooting that warrant the prosecutor to make the case that criminal charges should filed?

    Ragspierre in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    C’mon, now, dog. It isn’t like it has to be malfeasance by the PD.

    Having a grand jury take a look at this is not out of bounds.

    Believe me, cops and prosecutors are called on to make LOTS of judgments, and sometimes…being human…they get them wrong.

      Henry Hawkins in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 5:52 pm

      There you go, and sometimes a grand jury can validate the decisions of police and DA.

      As the saying goes, ‘you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich’, but the obverse is just as true – you can get a grand jury to not indict a ham sandwich.

      Inevitably, the evidence is or is not there to prosecute. Would that folks would wait and see.

        Ragspierre in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 6:22 pm

        And…as I like to observe…a Grand Jury (like a jury) is a beautiful expression of our Founder’s love of democracy and self-government.

        The purpose of a Grand Jury is inquiry. (See the period?)

        A prosecutor may have a different purpose in mind (they usually have SOME purpose in mind), but they are OFTEN whizzed on (politely) by a Grand Jury.

          Cubz_Fan in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 8:54 pm

          Fan this 1000 times Rags! DA’s and prosecutors have political agendas too. Something as benign as conviction rates in an election year, may make one hesitate to take a case to trial….

          Or take a felony case to trial, when similar circumstances were plead out as misdemeanors in prior cases.

          Not saying that is the case with the current DA. Most cases are resolved in a series of horse trades between the DA and defense counsel. However, GJ’s also tend to filter through the BS charges, while addressing the more valid counts… as they should

      Browndog in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      Trust me, I have no illusions as to the nobility of law enforcement-

      My eyes are wide open.

      I have no problem with a “review”, or the state attorney doing an independent investigation-

      But, unless I have it wrong, and I may have, convening a grand jury is for the purpose of seeking an indictment.

      Again, what new evidence is there?

      Media outrage?

      Cubz_Fan in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 6:19 pm

      Agreed. The Grand Jury gets to weigh all of the evidence and the credibility of the witnesses. In this case, it would be more appropriate for the GJ to view Martin’s history (whether it was selling weed and a reputed gang-banger), than law enforcement, who tend to be biased against a certain presentation (Gold teeth, tats, dreds, hoodies, etc.)

      In cases where lethal force is used, and the shooter is not protecting life/limb or is on his own property; it gets nuanced. In the case where no one puts a weapon in Martin’s hand; by law, self defense could be a reasonable defense considered by a grand-jury. As a matter of law, you can’t engage/provoke an incident, then claim self defense against an unarmed person. Several people are sitting in jail right now on this issue (Bar-fight that progresses into a shooting in the parking lot during a fist fight)

      I remember a case where a police officer shot an unarmed man, who was walking towards him slowly. The man refused to stop when the officer told him to do so, and was shot. The officer was White, the man was Black.

      The DA sent to a grand jury and only put 1st degree malice murder as a count. Of course the jury No-Billed, because the officer did not engage the man with the intent to kill. I had no problem with that case, as the victim failed to heed a lawful order. As a public policy, I would give the police considerable latitude, b/c if a person ignores a police officer, what would he do to me or someone else.

      In another case, a couple of gang-bangers shot a kid (also a banger), and a bystander teen was also killed. On both issues, the DA put everything in the counts from 1st Degree Murder to Reckless Endangerment of a child. The GJ returned a 1st Degree Murder on the dead banger; and Manslaughter, Reckless Endangerment of a child, agg. assault, etc on the deceased teen bystander.

      Again, completely appropriate

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    The GJ is a political exit ramp for the prosecutor’s office which is succumbing to racial pressure.

    Unbiased witnesses saw a man attacked and having his head slammed on the sidewalk. He was screaming for help. He then shot his attacker. If his intent all along was to shoot Trayvon, why cry for help? He would have just shot him pronto. I think the cops and the original DA called it right the first time. But now George Zimmerman will have his life ruined by the race hustlers, just like they’ve done so many times in so many cases.

      What you state is pure “religion”. You have no FLUCKING idea of what happened, beyond your faith in accounts that we all recognize are dubious (or we do if we don’t like them).

      Gee-hossa-fat.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 6:58 pm

        Then why discuss the case at all?

        If you really think nobody has a clue, why do you even bother with the thread? First you lecture about fighting the media narrative with truth, then you say we can’t know any truths or facts and can’t extrapolate a logical conclusion of any kind from them even if we do know them.

        Please make up your mind. 🙂

        (I like the “gee-hossa-fat”, words of my dearly-departed granny. It almost brings tears to my eyes)

        Why was the case taken away from Wolfinger and given to appointed Special Prosecutor Corey when Wolfinger already had the case scheduled for GJ, even though Wolfinger believed there was not enough evidence to convict? Why might that be?

          “First you lecture about fighting the media narrative with truth, then you say we can’t know any truths or facts and can’t extrapolate a logical conclusion of any kind from them even if we do know them.”

          I’m going to refrain from calling that a lie and you a liar…but just barely.

          You don’t have. ANY. IDEA. What the truth is. You can accept on faith what some media outlet says, deny others, etc. Then you CAN speculate on what you’ve accepted on faith.

          We DO fight the media narrative with truth (or at least I WILL). But that MAY require that I wait on an exposition of truth.

          In the meantime, I am not impotent to fight what others say that I identify as consummate BULLSHIT…including yours. Or anyone else here. Call it a flaw….

          JackRussellTerrierist in reply to JackRussellTerrierist. | March 27, 2012 at 3:00 am

          Rags, please answer my question. Why was the case taken from Wolfinger and given to a special prosecutor appointed for this case?

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    They’re caving to racial political pressure. Zimmerman is on the GJ railroad to demonhood.

    Fluffy Foo Foo in reply to Browndog. | March 26, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    The grand jury is about making the process fair and showing the public that justice has prevailed.

    It might not be legally warranted, but it’s the show the public needs to see to move on from what has happened.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | March 27, 2012 at 2:32 am

      No, it isn’t. We do not jeopardize people’s freedom for the purpose of putting on a show for the public.

      “It might not be legally warranted, but it’s the show the public needs to see to move on from what has happened.”

      “…not be legally warranted,….”

      Do you believe in the rule of law or not?

Journalism truly is dead.
Read this one-sided, race-baiting piece by Time.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2110066,00.html?iid=bl-main-mostpop2

The “hoodie” became sinister for me with the Unibomber. This threatening hoodie craze that the Martin followers are initiating is going to have unintended consequences–
Also, I’ve read that Martin’s suspension, for 10 days–not five (suggesting something far more serious than his mother describes) was his second, and that this suspension was for assaulting a bus driver. As I peruse the net sifting through what may be real and what clearly is not, I just want to say that I’m thankful there is a top-notch site like Legal Insurrection to turn to for verification of any new insight.
Where I am, and where I came from is a post-racial culture–this president has set people back generations with regard to post-racism. It is still hard for me to believe he gets away with what he does!

Henry Hawkins | March 26, 2012 at 5:54 pm

Unibomber? Urban Gangstas? Suburban Wannabes? Sheeeeeeeeeit, the hoodie was first made sinister to me by no less than the Grim Reaper.

[…] the narrative (Instapundit link; internal links, in order of appearance, are here, here, here, and here; red boxes are […]

And Father Pfleiger (an Obama CHICAGO CLOSE friend along with Ayers and Rev. Wright) did this for his parishioners at mass this Sunday (a mostly poor, black Chicago parish with the worst public schools in the nation)….

http://tinyurl.com/d6unhqn

[…] alluding to the Trayvon Martin shooting, of which there still are not enough facts for anyone without a preconceived notion to formulate any sort of rational opinion about, Ms. […]

jeannebodine | March 26, 2012 at 7:02 pm

Seems Trayvon had a history of getting suspended for odd things in his backpack.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

    Browndog in reply to jeannebodine. | March 26, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Just getting ready to link that-

    (via Insty)

    As you can see by the comments….somebody doesn’t want to hear it.

    With that, I’m done with this-

    Foot is getting sore, and the horse ain’t moved.

    OcTEApi in reply to jeannebodine. | March 26, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    I looked at this article and all 45 pages of comment thread earlier today, now its 95 pages and most comments are flagged for review.

    Cowards! ..lol

This rush to judgement is purely political and has little to the facts as we know them at this time.

But then this administration follows the credo, “Don’t let any crisis go to waste!” Remember the infamous “beer summit” where O’bammy quickly judged the local police as being “stupid?”

“…with liberty and justice for all,” only if you happen to positively affect Holder in a non rational way…

The anti-white race mongering has become so mainstreamed and PC in our national narrative that it is no longer a question of whether or not we white people are racists. We are guilty no matter what.

If the “Reverends” are are not put out of business soon, we may finally reach the tipping point where ALL white people will no longer fear being called racists. That term has has lost all meaning. America just elected a black president. What more do people want?

Apparently, the US Constitution has been replaced by the rules of the jungle where there is only the tribal justice of survival. It doesn’t take a majority to push over the edge. All it takes is for good men to stand by and do nothing. It’s time to do something.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Pasadena Phil. | March 27, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Soell said. In fact, I’ve stated your point many times on many fora and have been called a racist for making those statements, including here.

    I’m one of those people you refer to as reaching the point (long ago) of not caring if I’m called a racist or by whom.

    It matters not to me. What matters is that the truth be spoken each and every day.

“…we may finally reach the tipping point where ALL white people will no longer fear being called racists.”

I don’t fear being called a racist. I want not to be a racist.

I think all people should want not to be racists, regardless of their race. Just now, a lot of people have cultural permission to BE racists, and to feel that is just grand.

“If the “Reverends” are are not put out of business soon…”

Who by, Fillie? Not you or me. The only people who can do that are the people they feed off of. They have to say “NO!, we are not feeding that lie any more”.

Until they do, all you or I can do is teach, and set an example. That is, within the law there is nothing to do but those things.

Goes back to that Breitbart thing. So, if you think “It’s time to do something”, that’s it.

    logos in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Raggy: you seem to invoke Breitbart regularly.

    You said: “Goes back to that Breitbart thing. So, if you think “It’s time to do something”, that’s it.”
    I don’t fear being called a racist. I want not to be a racist.

    I think all people should want not to be racists, regardless of their race. Just now, a lot of people have cultural permission to BE racists, and to feel that is just grand.”

    Do you, perhaps, recall the Breitbart stance on the Pigford black non-farmers jumping on the wealth re-distribution scam? Do you think Breitbart was a racist on that issue? He simply called it like he saw it.

    You seem to be conflicted in your thought processes.

    You are no Breitbart.

      Ragspierre in reply to logos. | March 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm

      “Do you, perhaps, recall the Breitbart stance on the Pigford black non-farmers jumping on the wealth re-distribution scam? Do you think Breitbart was a racist on that issue? He simply called it like he saw it.”

      Boy, are you confused.

      Breitbart was not against black farmers. He WAS against a scam that was being conducted…with the help BTW of a lot of various races in the Collective…by criminals.

      Mother McCree…!!!

Raggie, you are a one-man blog thread pollution machine. Don’t you have a constitution to misread? Didn’t they give you one at the South El Paso School of Law and Dance?

Geez, Fillie. You seem out of your depth entirely.

I raised several…you know…actual points.

You called names and slobbered insults.

Try again. You still have time.

    logos in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    Raggy: you said you raised several actual points. Please attempt to restate your points, because your 9:09 comment reads like a rambling, incohesive piece of self-justifying self-indulgence.

      Ragspierre in reply to logos. | March 26, 2012 at 11:11 pm

      Naw. You aren’t likely to understand them better restated.

      Please feel free to reread my post. The fog may clear…

Henry Hawkins | March 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm

Freedom of speech guarantees that all ideas – no matter how noxious – get a proper airing for consideration by those who hear them. Good ideas will out, while bad ideas die out. This is how a free society evolves.

However, the process is slow and patience is required. The reason the process is slow is the same as why it is so hard and takes so long to enact meaningful, big change legislation – you don’t want to make big changes quickly lest haste make for the waste of errancy. Patience again.

Along with this necessary patience comes the need for faith that this is how it will work out eventually. I fear that too many people are losing faith in truth, which cuts short their patience, and the impulse is to reply in kind – with the same sort of bad ideas they despise and oppose in the first place.

Trust the system* (oh, THAT will rile some, fershur). Have faith in the power of truth. Do what you can, sure, but within the lines of our own vaues – let’s not lose our collective compass.

*Many of us are old enough to remember times far more divisive and uproarious than those we are currently experiencing. They don’t last. There exists a social/political pendulum, forever transitting between the apogean extremes. Ebb and flow, ebb and flow. Truth wills out, eventually. Bad ideas die, eventually. Good ideas live on, get incorporated, thrive – eventually. Resist the temptation to declare the system isn’t working the minute you realize an idea is bad. There are many, many other people involved whose agreement is required. Patience. Faith.

    Ragspierre in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Indeed.

    “Resist we much!”

      Henry Hawkins in reply to Ragspierre. | March 26, 2012 at 9:54 pm

      I bet you post from a room with CSN&Y playing on vinyl, under black lights, poster of Nixon on the shitter taped to the door, incense burning, wearing striped bellbottoms, three inch wide belt, and a fur vest like Sonny Bono’s.

      Huh? Am I right? Am I right? I’m right, aren’t I? Hahahaha. I knowed it. I KNOWED it.

        Ragspierre in reply to Henry Hawkins. | March 26, 2012 at 9:58 pm

        OK, LOL. And I NEVER say “LOL”….!!!

        Except that allusion to Nixon…good thing I’m a touch typist, cause I’m blind now…

I’m sorry, but I can’t give any of the “details” from the girlfriend any credence. The timeline she describes just doesn’t match the other available facts, including the 911 calls.

Concerning the NBPP…

Let’s start with solicitation to kidnap. In announcing a reward for the seizure of Zimmerman, the New Black Panthers may have violated Florida Code 787.01. It makes it a felony to “by threat, confining or abducting, or imprisoning another person against his . . . will without lawful authority with intent to . . . terrorize.”

Merely soliciting someone else to do this is also a felony in Florida under code section 777.04. “A person who solicits another to commit an offense prohibited by law and in the course of such solicitation commands, encourages, hires, or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such offense or an attempt to commit such offense commits the offense of criminal solicitation.”

The solicitation and threat to seize Zimmerman may also constitute a crime under Florida Code 876.35. The felony of Combination Against the People of the State occurs when someone is unlawfully seized by a mob, or at the behest of a mob. Think of a small town jail 100 years ago and angry crowd, armed with rope, demanding a particular inmate. Sound familiar?

Florida Code 876.35 defines the crime of Combination “to remove them forcibly out of this state, or to remove them from their habitations to any other part of the state by force, or [when people] shall assemble for that purpose.” Remember, solicitation to commit a crime is in itself a crime.

Florida Code 876.34 even makes it a felony to “interfere forcibly in the administration of the government.”

Florida has an oddball law which may play a role as the facts of the Trayvon Martin become clearer. Florida Code 843.20 is a criminal provision entitled “Harassment of participant of neighborhood crime watch program.” It makes it a misdemeanor to threaten or intimidate a member of member of a neighborhood crime watch program “while such member is engaged in. . . an organized neighborhood crime watch program activity.” The law says that a neighborhood patrol includes a “crime watch program activity.” Of course Zimmerman was on his neighborhood crime watch patrol when the tragic incident occurred.

http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/

Of course, those are the statutes. The case law could be quite different.

Still…

This picture summarizes how I feel about this entire situation: http://t.qkme.me/3oh3z4.jpg

    Ragspierre in reply to Mutnodjmet. | March 26, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Good on ya…!!!

    Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

    “His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

    The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Neo. | March 27, 2012 at 10:37 am

      As a reverend himself, he’s probably mortified that people like Jackson, Farrakhan and Sharpton get away with calling themselves “rverend” and “minister.”

      There are usually a few sane black voices to be heard when Jesse, Al and Louie call out their troops, but they are too few and too far between.

      At any rate, the information is not supportive of their position now and any day all the race hustlers will start back-pedaling just like they did in the Duke lacrosse case. When the media stops covering the story, we’ll know they’ve stood down once again.

    ABC News reported a police source quoted Zimmerman as saying the youth had tried to get his gun.

theduchessofkitty | March 26, 2012 at 11:45 pm

“Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.”

A burglary here, a baggie of pot there, a school suspension over there… And sooner or later we get… a martyr?!?!? To whom?

Apparently, this punk was well on his way to build his own respectable “rap sheet” before the State of Florida, his very own street credo, at age 15… That is, until certain “white Hispanic” stopped him cold… literally.

“Hoodie martyr”, my foot!

Better luck next time.

This 21-year-old white kid was just shot and killed at Mississippi State Univ.

The suspects are three black males.

I wonder if President Obama can relate to this young man. If he had a son, he probably wouldn’t look all that much like this young man. But, really, should that matter?

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to LukeHandCool. | March 27, 2012 at 12:52 am

    People should show up at counter-protests to these BS “Justice for Trayvon” parties with huge signs, each sign with a large photo of a white/Hispanic or Asian killed by blacks because of his race. Present the media with a sea of faces of the dead who paid the price for political correctness in this country, in this media, and in this administration.

Curious, about a dog that isn’t barking. Is there any evidence that Mr. Zimmerman was an ineffective, troublesome, busybody neighborhood watch guy? Any letters in the files from the police telling him that they appreciate his sincere desire, but they really don’t want his help? Any thing? Anybody? He has been a neighborhood watch guy for quite awhile, and has been doing a passable job. I haven’t heard any evidence that his neighbors wanted him to find a new hobby.

Plus, this is a gated community. I’ve heard talk radio guys say ‘Gee, it isn’t a crime to walk around the neighborhood.’ True that, but this is a gated community. The expectation is that people out walking around have a tangible connection. That Mr. Martin’s dad was staying with the dad’s girlfriend, sort of makes Mr. Martin’s presence a bit tenuous. Why was the deceased missing for 3 days before the family made investigation into his whereabouts? There are loads of questions inquiring minds really want to know about.

Some seem to think that having an adult man smashing your head into the ground isn’t cause for shooting. Exactly how was he supposed to get the guy off of him? I’ve heard of thugs killing victims that way. The expression is, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Was Mr. Zimmerman’s “provoking” behavior so strong that it justified repeatedly smashing his head into the ground?

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Milwaukee. | March 27, 2012 at 3:11 am

    If Trayvon was scared, why didn’t he call 911? Why didn’t he run? Can’t a slender, 17 yr.old athlete outrun an overweight 28 yr.old? If Zimmerman pulled a gun on Martin BEFORE Martin began beating him, he would have shot him then. But that’s not what unbiased witnesses say.

      Well, you are only assuming these witnesses are unbiased.

      And for all the talk today about Zimmerman being beaten so horribly, it doesn’t seem he was injured badly enough to go to the hospital or even a doctor.

        Steve in reply to Rixriver. | March 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

        One generally assumes that witnesses are unbiased except for their perspective observations. Bias is usually only assumed or treated as possible when a relationship exists between a witness and a participant.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Rixriver. | March 27, 2012 at 10:09 am

        In the rain, in the dark, with Trayvon sitting on Zimmerman’s chest, they recognized Zimmerman, think he’s great, called 911 with a phony story, and all the witnesses had that same idea to do that? Okey-doke.

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Rixriver. | March 27, 2012 at 10:41 am

        Yes, he did go to the hospital.

If you noticed, there were no protests, no outrage immediately after the shooting, or when the DA announced he wouldn’t be charging Zimmerman. On Trayvon’s “real” Facebook page (Slimm), after his death all the messages are expressing sorrow, missing him, etc. Not one expressing outrage or suggesting he was “murdered” etc.

Not until a lawyer (sorry, Prof, but you know it’s true) showed up with a scheme to sue somebody and people started smelling a payday does the wailing begin. Fly to NYC to protest! Alert the media! Get the Sharpton & Jackson Circus in on it, generate some hysteria, and up the settlement demands.

Trayvon’s mom is also trying to ease her sorrow by trademarking his name and image for commercial products. Nothing like a few extra coins to dry those tears . . .

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Estragon. | March 27, 2012 at 3:13 am

    We noticed. Some of us did, anyway. For others, that may be too fine a point to have any meaning in their lofty analyses.

No 7-11 security cam footage of Trayvon buying his Skittles surface yet? Figured it would have found its way into the media’s hands by now. Course he wouldn’t be 12 in the vid, so that would pose an obvious problem.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to hglaske. | March 27, 2012 at 3:07 am

    Bin wonderin’ about that myself. When was Martin at the store in relation to when he was shot? How much time passed? Not that it really matters in the long haul.

      Might matter if he never actually went to the 7-11. Then his reason for skulking around the neighborhood would be…?

        JackRussellTerrierist in reply to hglaske. | March 27, 2012 at 7:53 pm

        Good point. Maybe he didn’t go to the store. Maybe he was just out roaming around……looking for a jewelry box perhaps to keep his ladies jewelry in since he couldn’t keep it in his locker, having been suspended for 10 days and all.

        😉

BannedbytheGuardian | March 27, 2012 at 5:22 am

OMG JackRusselTerrier has beaten out Rags 41-37.

That is crazy man . Rags never gets beat.

“The man who shot the black teenager in Florida may be as guilty as sin, for all I know — or he may be innocent. We pay taxes so that there can be judges and jurors who sort out the facts. We do not need Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or the president of the United States spouting off before the trial has even begun. Have we forgotten the media’s rush to judgment in the Duke University “rape” case that blew up completely when the facts came out?”
–Thomas Sowell, quoted by Roger Kimball

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/

Dr. Sowell is one of a very large number of people I would not expect to see when “Blacks would be rioting with glee in the streets if Trayvon had shot Zimmerman, with Trayvon controlling the narrative of what happened.”

Perhaps you each can think of several you know. A few of you seem not to be able to.

    JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 27, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Sowell is definitely one who would not be there. Nor would Col. West, Angela McLachlan, Walter Williams, Deroy Murdock, J.C. Watts, my son-in-law, Bill Cosby, Deneen Borelli, nor any of the fine AMERICANS over at Project21.

    It’s good that you could think of ONE. But the vast number of OJ and Obama supporter types, the ghetto dwellers, the HipHopWorld participants, Jesse’s gang, Al’s gang, Calypso Louie’s gang, and the parasite class, all of which make up the bulk of black America, would be well represented.

The problem is not that we cannot think of any black people who are of the mindset of Dr. Sowell in this regard. Of course we can. The major problem is that the only blacks who are getting media attention, do not share Dr. Sowells balanced approach, including the President of the United States. The President decided that this victim is more important than other victims simply because they “look” like each other. The President injected race into this tragedy and made race the issue that the black community and the media would highlight. The most powerful man in the country took a side before he knew any of the facts. Obama rushed to judgment.

    Ragspierre in reply to damocles. | March 27, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Totally agree with your…not racist…position.

    Obama AND Sanct-torum have rushed to judgment…along with a few other poltroons in politics on both sides of this.

    You are able to think in terms of people, rather than groups. My point.

      JackRussellTerrierist in reply to Ragspierre. | March 27, 2012 at 10:28 am

      Black Americans themselves have balkanized themselves. They identify themselves as a “group.” If you don’t like that thinking or having that fact pointed out, complain to them about it, not those who notice it and recognize it as the tap root of race problems in this country.

    Henry Hawkins in reply to damocles. | March 27, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    In the future, please stop using the verb ‘rush’. I’m a NC resident and we’re not allowed to hear that word. I may be in trouble just for posting it.

Midwest Rhino | March 27, 2012 at 10:29 am

There seem to be two separate “cases” here. Zimmerman will now face intense scrutiny, but his outcome will be determined by professionals. There is concern though, that national media is influencing his due process.

There other case is based in a false narrative built by whom? Media Matters, Obama’s campaign, major media whoring for viewers … ? This is the distraction from the economy and the sell out of our national defense, and Obama’s war against American energy (real energy, not green fantasy)

But the distraction, phony narrative is now a real campaign issue to be dealt with, not ignored. It has taken on a life of its own. America is on trial and we have to search our collective souls for the “crime” of being racist with intent to kill.

The battle being fought is only tenuously tied to the actual story and the real life case. Obama and a million Trayvons are accusing white America. That is the ethereal battle being fought in high places. Race has nothing to do with the actual Zimmerman/Martin case. But race IS the issue in the Obama incited war. The same force that elected Obama the first time is being applied now.

Facts regarding the real case may matter little at this point. The mob has been set in motion, chants and merchandise are in play. This is the real battle … collective white racism. Charges have been brought by the president, and he demands the collective search their soul. Major media is bringing false evidence, but there is no judge. It is mob rule.

As noble as it is to not pass early judgment on the actual case, the prosecution does not rest, and the defense of “white America” is hardly heard. Of course this is the straw man … there is no white America, only certain elements of “black America” organize based on race. But white guilt still exists. The fact that Zimmerman is Spanish speaking Hispanic shows the disconnect between the Zimmerman case and the Obama versus We the People case.

I lived in a large majority black city for 15 years. I had a dozen or so crimes against me, no one ever got in trouble for them. But in every case there was evidence of someone(s) casing, or directly seen committing. They were all black but one.

So it is quite reasonable to me, to picture a more logical narrative of Zimmerman doing exactly what he said. He probably expected his presence would be enough to deter a crime, even though “they always get away”. Trayvon was previously found in possession of jewelry (someone gave to him?) and a large screwdriver.

The actual case will matter some, but will this evoke a more honest national debate? The vocal left has already convicted strawman “white America”, and the best real America can do is plead for a mistrial.

(I’m not a lawyer, so my use of legal analogy may be faulty, but you get the idea)

    Ragspierre in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 27, 2012 at 11:02 am

    I think it is useful to step back and attach to first principles at times.

    1. this is not about race in reality. A narrative has been constructed by some very motivated interests…including the Mushroom Media…that required bending reality. But I can find no support for that meme.

    2. the police do not seem to have been careless, stupid, or “Southern” in their investigation. The Sanford PD is, like Sanford, integrated. The captain who is acting chief of the department is black. I can find no support for the assertion that the death of anyone would be carelessly investigated, or that it was in this instance. The chief was a formed homicide detective, and he had detectives investigate this death.

    3. none of us knows what happened. Press accounts are universally recognized to be erroneous, if not decidedly biased. That includes blogs. One of the things that we also know happens in instances like this one, people become MORE polarized than would normally be the case, and say things they later regret (or should) and DO take sides and become cheer-leaders.

    4. having a Grand Jury inquire here has no political overtones. That is what they do. It is their function. This is normal. What is not normal is to have the state intervention, and the federal level involved. Outside of pure politics, I can see no reason for that.

    5. various interests and people have been running up to…and over… the line of legality here, and even national “leaders” have stirred the pot. This could readily have the effect of denying Mr. Zimmerman due process. He most certainly has been denied the presumption of innocence by Collectivists of all races, and by not a few “conservatives”, as well.

    6. the outcome of this will see people less united, less sanguine about justice, and less secure in the idea of Americans as a people. There are things we can do to lessen that, if we choose to.

      Midwest Rhino in reply to Ragspierre. | March 27, 2012 at 11:42 am

      Thanks for that rational consideration of the situation. But what about the 75% of the electorate that have been inspired by the soap opera version, and are not determined to drill down to such considerations? Hopefully as more facts emerge, many will reconsider their initial judgment.

      The jury pool in the trial against “white racist America” has been tainted to the third degree. Still, a rational and measured response may still be most effective. But dominant forces are determined to keep the accused from getting its day in national court. (not Zimmerman … the presumed guilty average white man)

      This reminds me of a famous Sheriff Harry Lee statement:

      “If there are some young blacks driving a car late at night in a predominantly white neighborhood, they will be stopped. There’s a pretty good chance they’re up to no good. It’s obvious two young blacks driving a rinky-dink car in a predominantly white neighborhood—I’m not talking about on the main thoroughfare, but if they’re on one of the side streets and they’re cruising around—they’ll be stopped.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Lee_%28sheriff%29#Controversies

      “Casing” is done openly and takes most of the time … the crime is quick and usually unobserved. The dilemma of profiling and using good instinct versus not imposing on rights is nothing new. Observing the “caser” usually makes them go away.

        Ragspierre in reply to Midwest Rhino. | March 27, 2012 at 11:58 am

        “Still, a rational and measured response may still be most effective.”

        Being a rationalist, I have to not just believe that, but live it.

        So far, in a pretty long life, it has not let me down much at all. I can recommend it.

“They killed my son”

Funny, I thought he was killed in a one-on-one altercation. So who is this “they” she is referring to? And does she think they fly around in black helicopters? Maybe with black suits, dark sunglasses, and flashy-things to erase peoples’ memories?
In the heat of emotion, she reveals her paranoid delusions.

SelfDefense... | March 28, 2012 at 1:18 pm

From FS 776, A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Forcible felony means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Robbing Zimmerman of his gun is a forcible felony.

Hitting his head on stationary concrete “should be” a deadly force attack. From physics, forces can be equivalent… . Hitting the head on concrete or hitting the head with concrete.

Calvin Dodge | March 28, 2012 at 2:49 pm

Regarding the “gold teeth” picture. I visited Trayvon’s Twitter account (@NO_LIMIT_NI**A) before it was closed down. That picture was definitely posted on his page.
The evidence it was really his page?
1) The name listed on the page was “Slimm” (his middle name)
2) Last tweet was on February 24th
3) Lots of birthday tweets from friends on February 4th and 5th (his birthday was the 5th)

The account had been active since at least 4/11/2010 (I kept scrolling down until no more tweets were shown).

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