#CalExit is resurrected as measure approved for signature gathering
#CalExit math still fails to add up.
The last time we checked on #CalExit, the California secession movement, supporters of the #CalExit ballot measure officially ended their efforts.
However, a second #CalExit proposal is moving forward as the state attorney general’s office released an official title and summary for the initiative (“California Autonomy From Federal Government” initiative) and is permitting backers to gather signatures.
The proposal, scaled back from an initially more aggressive version, would direct California’s governor to negotiate more autonomy from the federal government, including potentially putting forward a ballot measure to declare independence.
The initiative wouldn’t necessarily result in California exiting the country, but could allow the state to be a “fully functioning sovereign and autonomous nation” within the U.S.
Backers of the plan, known informally as “Calexit” have 180 days to collect nearly 600,000 valid signatures for the initiative to go on the 2018 ballot.
Even if the backers gather the required number of signatures, the chance of success is microscopically small.
…Following Trump’s election victory, it appeared that support for Calexit was increasing, with a January poll from Reuters showing 32 percent of Californians would back a break from the U.S.
However, secession is ultimately unlikely, given that the majority of Americans do not support the proposal and that a Calexit would also face major legal hurdles regardless of public opinion.
Backers have until Jan. 22, 2018, to gather signatures.
“We feel like this current initiative is more feasible and will hold up more to scrutiny and legal challenges,” said Steve Gonzales, a member of the group California Freedom Coalition.
And while supporters point out that California has the “fifth largest economy” in the world as justification for the move, there are several factors that have not been fully addressed. A few of the items showing the #CalExit math doesn’t add up:
1) The cost of defense of the newly independent entity is ignored by backers.
2) The proponents have not addressed the fact that the federal government owns over 45% of the state, and the national government will want compensation for these lands
3) Funding for Social Security, Medicare, and other benefits that are now handled by the federal government would either have to picked-up by the state or dropped entirely, and there is no indication of which approach would be taken.
4) Why should the federal government allow the new “sovereign state” to use the dollar as currency? How would the autonomous California actually do business?
5) With 55 electoral votes, the Democratic Party politicians and leaders are unlikely to allow California to leave.
Still, in the highly unlikely event #CalExit occurs, the United States could still keep the 50 stars on the flag by welcoming the State of Jefferson.
A group of California residents are fed up with unfair representation within the state’s government, which they say has led to excessive regulations and over taxation throughout northern counties. The group, a grassroots effort known as the State of Jefferson, hope to create a new state from Northern California to combat these issues, and local advocates hope that Stanislaus County will join the cause.
“The ability for the voices of Northern California to be heard is virtually impossible, and part of the problem is that you have one Assembly member covering multiple different counties,” said Allan Romander, media coordinator for the State of Jefferson movement in Stanislaus County. “Because you have different attitudes and different political interests in those counties, with some countermanding each other, it’s very difficult for an Assembly member to appropriately address or represent those folks when he or she is in Sacramento.”
I suspect the Jeffersonians would be quite happy with this arrangement.
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Comments
Liberals don’t do math! It is oppressive to them.
Cause math is like racist mon!
Kein Scheiss!
No intermediate algebra, no problem: CSU ditches tricky math prerequisite
One may never need to solve a quadratic equation outside of math class ever again, but the importance of studying algebra is the abstract reasoning and pattern recognition thought processes it requires.
If a career is based on writing code for object oriented programming, then what value does quantum mechanics, Shakespeare or even Latin contribute to that endeavor? Everything.
Anybody who has studied a foreign language realizes a different thought process is involved in conveying thoughts. Latin does not adhere to the subject/verb/object paradigm. Except for present tense, German stacks all verbs at the end of the sentence. Writing software is an expression of thoughts arranged to convey meaning, as is literature.
Students and educators who believe certain subject matters are not worth learning because it is not relevant to one’s career are flat out wrong. Of what value is a degree if the student has not even learned to conceptualize thought.
That’s actually a national trend.
Don’t dare make students “think.”
They make better zombies that way.
Well, if CalExit is successful, at least we won’t have to listen to all the hollywood hypocrites whine and lie about ‘Moving to Canada’ if so n so is president.
I wonder what Nevadans think about building a wall?
You’re going to need a longer wall.
On the plus side, divorce over irreconcilable differences is preferable to civil war.
Since when is divorce over irreconcilable differences not civil war?
New currency; Golden Bear Bucks… in a rainbow of colors just like in Monopoly.
Within a year Ca would be demanding foreign aid.
So far, Brexit is bloodless.
Firstly, Brexit is going nowhere right now. Secondly, the planned EU army (for what?) is not up and running. Thirdly, Britain is a nation and with a well established history as a nation and a military (spelled N-U-C-L-E-A-R). Fourthly, it is an island already and buffered (see Julius Caesar, Spanish Armada, Napoleon, and Hitler).
Also, the populace has morphed into sheeple where the “stiff upper lip” and “Dunkirk” are fading memories and the average weapon is a legally constrained butter knife.
The only ‘bloody” thing left is just a “word”.
The only successful civil wars in Britain were Roundheads and Cavaliers and assorted “Flower” infighting.
Golden Bear Bucks would have little scratch-n-sniff Unicorn Farts on them
Civil War?? Where are the liberals of California going to get an army? – From their children?
Name a liberal in California whose child is in the military.
The rest of the nation’s children die protecting America, not children elite liberals. Nor are they police, of firefighters, or paramedics.
Snowflakes can’t work that hard. Not even Snowflake Nazis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnBDCnH1O3Q
Yeah, but that means we Californians are left to deal with this mess.
Can we jettison a handful of California Regions from the country and wall them off as a quarantine measure?
one earthquake… Russia could annex ’em… they’d literally break off & become an offshore investing place.. to put the loons & snowflakes…
No backsies just because the “Big One” levels the People’s Republic of California.
Hasta la vista and don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
If they secede, that would less of the United States that North Korea would be threatening with nuclear missiles. Win-win.
CalExit ISN’T happening, no matter how much noise some want to make. Do they REALLY think the rest of us are going to allow them to walk away with scads of national park land, dozens of military bases (including the two largest Naval bases on the West Coast), several national laboratories, over half of the west coast ports and silicon valley? HAHAHAHA.
And even if they were foolish enough to “secede” while leaving all that behind – because We The People aren’t about to give up title – just where do they think they are going to get their water and electricity from? California is far from self-sustaining when it comes to water and electricity.
My first thought is that it would be wonderful to cut the group of losers loose, but then you realize that they would immediately form alliances with the likes of Russia and China. They would be near bankruptcy within a year and then they would start selling parts of their country to anyone who had the money. We would have foreign armies on US soil and there would be no recourse. They can’t manage now so we can only imagine how well they would do on their own. This reminds me of when I was young and threatened to run away. My dad “let us know where to write to you”, and that pretty much called my bluff.
If successful and the US lets them go, Baja Norte arises!
DOD facilities would shut down including the naval port in San Diego and Vendenburg. Losses in the billions.
I imagine the economic hit would be losses the hundreds of billions yearly for a few years to the state as companies like SpaceX, Apple, Facebook, Intel, Google, Oracle, et all have to relocate to US territory.
Fun times. As a CA resident I will vote in favor.
What US citizen would want Baja Norte citzenship over US?
Not gonna happen. The secession issue was largely settled in 1865.
In what sense would independent California need to ask US permission to use the US dollar as currency? People all over the world use it without permission from Washington, so what’s the issue?
I say hurry up and get them to leave before they realize that 1/5 of the economy includes the parts that would become Jefferson.
IMHO, the rest of the US gains more from such action then California.
) The cost of defense of the newly independent entity is ignored by backers. –> Defense? We’re peaceful people, what’s the problem? Besides, someone (China? USA?) would pay plenty for a 99-year lease on the San Diego Naval Base.
2) The proponents have not addressed the fact that the federal government owns over 45% of the state, and the national government will want compensation for these lands. –> Well, we all want something, but what would the USA do if Cal just refused to pay, invade? Or, consider that a Cal-friendly U.S. president plus a Cal-friendly U.S. Senate means a Cal-friendly treaty. Would an IOU (amount and repayment schedule TBD) be OK?
3) Funding for Social Security, Medicare, and other benefits that are now handled by the federal government would either have to picked-up by the state or dropped entirely, and there is no indication of which approach would be taken. –> California would do “single payer” for medical benefits, and then ration by queue. Then it would sue the USA, claiming that its citizens had property rights in federal Social Securitu and Medicare.
4) Why should the federal government allow the new sovereign state to use the dollar as currency? How would the autonomous California actually do business? –> I don’t see how the USA could prevent the use of USD as cash and as units of account, but if there were a problem it could issue a new currency and peg its value to the USD, with full convertibility.
5) With 55 electoral votes, the Democratic Party politicians and leaders are unlikely to allow California to leave. –> Well finally, a real concern! And easily solved: Cal’s independence is interpreted to mean California’s citizens deserve all the rights of U.S. citizenship with none of the obligations.
Next?
1) “We are a peaceful people” – So, what happens when Mexico invades or North Korea lobs an ICBM this way? Some thought about financing adequate defense is important.
2)Refer to the events in 1861-1865 for what happens of the federal government doesn’t want to part with 45% of this state.
3)California single payer would cost $400 billion, wiping away any economic prosperity touted by the proponents. http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-first-fiscal-analysis-of-single-payer-1495475434-htmlstory.html
4)In Hungary, I converted dollars to florints, in Romania it was leu, and in Bulgaria it was lev. The citizens would not typically accept any other currency. California can’t print American dollars and call them legal tender. For example, could Russia print American dollars and start paying all its bills with them? No. How would the autonomous state back its currency?
5) This is about the biggest reason that California will remain a state…that, and the fact 2/3rds of its citizens (many of them likely voters) are going to outright reject this plan.
Leslie, first let me apologize foe the unintentional down vote. An overly twitchy finger and the close proximity of the active area for the reply and down vote function inadvertently resulted in this error.
As for “we are a peaceful people,” (Sweden, anyone?) the country of Calexit would only need a minimal defense budget. Since the only people who will be left residing in Calexit are the open borders, everyone welcome, we celebrate our diversity crowd, Calexit would only need to purchase at bulk discount prices at the Reno WalMart enough candles to hand out at every succeeding why do they hate us let’s all sing Kumbaya circle jerk vigil.
No worries about the down vote. I can’t tell you how many times my fat fingers have betrayed me!
2) Which kind of shoots down 1.
4) The answer almost seems obvious. BitCoin. Almost because BitCoin just broke into two currencies. They could invent their own blockchain coinage, call it CalCoin.
BTW doesn’t the US own the San Diego Naval base. That could become a minor sticking point to renting it out.
2)Refer to the events in 1861-1865
But 1861 was very badly handled. Secession might well have succeeded—at least for a few years, before it became clear that the whole thing was little more than impractical petualance—if somebody hadn’t been foolish enough to make it a shooting war.
I don’t think Californians in general wallow in dreams of their own martial prowess; they’re never going to fantasize that a militant split could either succeed, or could be in their own interest. If—improbably—the proceed with this project, they’ll try to do it via legal pettifoggery. And that could possibly succeed.
The Civil War began as a shooting war because the US administration wouldn’t dicker with the seceded States over federal properties within those former US States. The North simply refused to acknowledge their independence, and therefore refused to acknowledge any of their claims to the property or their authority to negotiate anything about them. But the real crux was when South Carolina opened fire on a resupply mission headed to Ft. Sumter, and the subsequent successful attempt to forcibly take control of that federal installation. Such a situation is highly unlikely to occur today (who would fight to bring CA back into the Union?), to say nothing of the fact that an issue like slavery is not lurking behind the scenes.
OK, I was being sarcastic about “We’re a peaceful people” and understand that if you want to be a sovereign state you need a military defense. BUT, an independent California would be no threat to North Korea, and therefore Korea would have no need to threaten (let alone use) nuclear weapons against it.
As for Mexico, so long as the remittances keep coming and the border remains open, a reconquista of the American Southwest will remain a long-term project in which demographic change has a larger role than military invasion. I’d expect (in the near term at least) that gang violence spilling over into California would be a bigger threat than a military invasion.
“California single payer would cost $400 billion.” Well yes, it could. Or it could cost less if demand is reduced by making people with life-threatening illnesses wait long enough so they no longer need treatment because they’ve died. Plus palliative-only care for those over 70, and strong social pressures for euthanasia for those needing costly medical treatment.
The safety valve (for those who could afford it) would be access to medical treatment in the USA.
Although if indepedance meant Californians had to forfeit their rights to Social Security and Medicare that might dampen older Californians interest in secession, younger Californians wouldn’t much care, figuring that these benefits won’t be there for them when they get old anyway.
The bottom line is, what would matter is not so much what would actually happen but what voters think would happen. Which might be quite different.
Why on earth would it do that? Social Security doesn’t care where you live.
“Defense? We’re peaceful people…”
That’s why you need a strong military – so you gutless, peaceful people don’t become someone’s fascist’s slave, like the french and chinese and koreans did in world war 2. .
Will you people ever learn? Probably not.
Liberia and now Zimbabwe are two of many that use US dollars as official currency.
Zimbabwe, under Mugabe, has been a disaster. They got as far as 100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar bills with expiration dates, then went to the US dollar.
Re: State of Jefferson ( I’d like to chose a name via ballot)
How many years would it take for the progs to worm their way into power? Control the bureaucracy and judiciary? Wreck havoc on logging, mining and water rights via federal lawfare.
SoJ would control both Shasta and Oroville dams, Sacramento, Feather, Pitt rivers ect.
( I’d like to chose a name via ballot)
Then it will end up with a name like Statey McStateface.
Not good, not even in the Land of Fruits & Nuts.
Some ideas:
State of Insanity
State of Chaos
State of Affairs
Should this pass, I could see a civil war in the state as the rural areas fight to break from the Bay Area to San Diego coastal enclaves.
Then a water war as the rural folks control the spigots from the dams and I know for a fact plenty would like to keep the spigots shut forever. No love lost between rural CA and urban. Biggest pop corn moment since the Civil War.
How could it prevent it? It’s none of the USA’s business what other countries use for currency, including rocks, cowrie shells, or US dollars.
See my comment above. How would California back the California dollar? How many California cowrie shells would you get for $1 American?
Back? What is this “back”? Are you under the impression that US currency is “backed” by something? That it can be exchanged for something?
But none of that is relevant, because CA, like anyone else, can just use US dollars as its currency, if it likes.
California secedes. With no army, they are ripe for capture by…the US. US invades, makes California a US possession. We get all the benefit from them but they no longer have electoral votes or Senators. Win-win!
620,000 people died to teach the south that seceding from the union isn’t an option. If you think we’d let California go, think again.
California has three main exports: entertainment, agriculture and technology.
California has two critical imports: water and electricity.
There is no way in hell they can keep their stumbling economy if the new Nation of Fruits and Nuts has to sign a treaty with its former siblings in order to water its fruits and nuts.
SCOTUS: Texas v. White (1868) – The Constitution does not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were “absolutely null”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
So, California secedes, fields its transgendered army and threatens to slap the dickens out of us and use our bathrooms.