Assessment — Not sure how to rate this. I wonder how Biden’s constant laughing, smirks, and bombastic language (“bunch of malarkey”) played with the viewers.
Biden also talked over Ryan constantly, and the moderator often cut short Ryan’s answers. Ryan also didn’t get a chance to respond to many of Biden’s over the top comments.
Biden was so over the top, the liberals will be cheering, but based on how some liberals I follow on Twitter (below) reacted, he may have gone too far.
Are you ready to rumble, America??Capitalism vs. Socialism.Here we go!!!
— Monica Crowley (@MonicaCrowley) October 12, 2012
Starting off with Libya. I hope Joe tells her nobody cares about it except Romney and Ryan.
— Jim Treacher (@jtLOL) October 12, 2012
Inappropriate grin from Biden
— Dan McLaughlin (@baseballcrank) October 12, 2012
#VPDebate Biden grinning nervously while Ryan is devastating on Libya
— Anne Leary (@backyardconserv) October 12, 2012
Canned: “With all due respect that’s a bunch of malarkey.”
— John McCormack (@McCormackJohn) October 12, 2012
Biden laughing when Ryan talks about very serious security issues is unsettling.
— Amanda Carpenter (@amandacarpenter) October 12, 2012
If biden laughs one more time i’m going to jump thru the tv and slap him. #Debates
— Bernard Goldberg (@BernardGoldberg) October 12, 2012
Now Biden says “Oh God,” when Ryan talks. That’s pure class #VPDebate
— David Limbaugh (@DavidLimbaugh) October 12, 2012
Laughter in #vpdebate press room as Biden is heard to exclaim: “Oh, God!”
— Toby Harnden (@tobyharnden) October 12, 2012
ThisguyisnotreallyVPoftheUS ThisguyisnotreallyVPoftheUS ThisguyisnotreallyVPoftheUS #breath #breath
— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) October 12, 2012
There goes the 47 percent
— Rich Lowry (@RichLowry) October 12, 2012
Ryan demolishes Biden with the unemployment rate in Scranton
— John Hayward (@Doc_0) October 12, 2012
Biden said he voted against wars, but he actually voted for them. cc: @politifact
— John McCormack (@McCormackJohn) October 12, 2012
Joe Biden is winning the time of possession battle.
— James Joyner (@drjjoyner) October 12, 2012
Why is each new question directed to Ryan? Why is Ryan cut off when he is making a big point?
— ✯✯Gene McVay✯✯ (@GeneMcVay) October 12, 2012
Biden must have heard a very funny joke earlier. #debates
— Rick Klein (@rickklein) October 12, 2012
Both are doing pretty well in their own very different ways, which makes it strategically interesting. #MyHallmarkAnalysis
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) October 12, 2012
Biden is controlling the debate; but he’s interrupting a lot; fine line on controlling a debate and being overly aggressive;
— Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) October 12, 2012
Anyone else supremely annoyed with Martha Raddatz? She’s continually interrupting Paul Ryan every time he’s making a great point. #VPDebate
— Laura (@GOPrincess) October 12, 2012
Ryan needs to assert himself more in this #vpdebate. He’s allowing himself to get shouted down.
— Toby Harnden (@tobyharnden) October 12, 2012
Bad as Obama was, he couldn’t have done what Biden’s doing. Not presidential. #vpdebate
— Dan Kennedy (@dankennedy_nu) October 12, 2012
Biden has got to stop interrupting Ryan. It’s beginning to seem ungentlemanly
— Ben Adler (@badler) October 12, 2012
I seriously don’t get the Biden incredulous laugh thing. #vpdebate
— The Fix (@TheFix) October 12, 2012
Why does Raddatz want to “move on” when Ryan is getting traction?
— Laura Ingraham (@IngrahamAngle) October 12, 2012
The Biden smile = the Gore sigh? #vpdebate
— The Fix (@TheFix) October 12, 2012
Biden talking over Ryan way more than vice versa. #debates
— Rick Klein (@rickklein) October 12, 2012
GREAT, hard-hitting response from Ryan on faith – goes after HHS mandate, Biden’s comments on China’s one-child policy
— EdMorrissey (@EdMorrissey) October 12, 2012
Reporters slam Biden’s debate giggling… drudge.tw/QgrUTl
— DRUDGE REPORT (@DRUDGE_REPORT) October 12, 2012
Paul Ryan closes by doing the ONLY thing a VP debate is supposed to do–land punches on the POTUS candidate.
— Michael Graham (@MGraham969) October 12, 2012
Biden’s facial expressions guarantee he will have a talk show after his elected career, but may not be good for a debate.
— Jon Ralston (@RalstonReports) October 12, 2012
The same media who accused Romney of “bullying” Obama last week will be silent on Biden’s behavior tonight. Watch. #vpdebate
— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) October 12, 2012
CNN’s David Gergen: “Ryan was more presidential.” … CNN’s Gloria Borger: “Biden was condescending.” #vpdebate
— Matt Moon (@alaskan) October 12, 2012
.@cbsnews INSTANT POLL of Undecided Voters: Who won #VPdebate? BIDEN: 50% RYAN: 31% TIE: 19% Live Coverage: CBSNews.com
— CBS News (@CBSNews) October 12, 2012
VIDEOS: CNN’s Borger and NBC’s Gregory both call Biden “condescending.” youtu.be/WGsk26Gix_k & youtu.be/RaxEZRFK-fM #BidenUnhinged
— Reince Priebus (@Reince) October 12, 2012
BREAKING: CNN-ORC post-debate poll of Registered Voters: 48% said Ryan won. 44% said Biden won. Sampling error: +-5%. #CNNDebate
— Sam Feist (@SamFeistCNN) October 12, 2012
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Comments
I wish I could get that 90 minutes back.
Seriously, how do you “debate” a drunken, senile, nasty old man?
Joe Biden with his mouth SHUT.
http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w362/TrooperJohnSmith/Joe_Biden_Mugshot.jpg
The Duke loved what you said! He has been ROTFLOL!!! Thanks!
Ryan did fine. Biden did okay, but hurt himself with the smirks. I do not see this changing anything from immediately before the debate.
LOVED this comment on another blog:
Biden looked like “THE JOKER”- think the Jack Nicholson version!!!!
I’m sure the base is reassured, but even if this kind of behavior is supposed to be a trial balloon for O in the two coming debates, I don’t think it will do. We expect more from the actual presidential nominee and I doubt O is capable of this act. And in any event, it will not redeem his sorry performance in the first debate.
[…] laughing, mocking, snickers, guffaws, exasperations, snorting, sniffles, and smugness, it was difficult to watch this debate because Joe Biden insulted us all with his buffoonery and clowning. Paul Ryan was respectful but […]
I didn’t always understand what Biden was rumbling about. Ryan got in the most memorable lines- especially about Biden’s words not always coming out right, and talking about unemployment in Scranton.
Biden was like a used car salesman; Ryan was calm and collected.
Ryan not assertive enough about time allocation and Biden lies.
Thank God Biden’s antics and bombastic tone mostly sank him, but his surliness and condescension may seem like authoritative knowledge to some.
However, could this have been the tactic? Obama acted like he would have rather been elsewhere. We saw where that led. Give Joe all the rope that he’ll take. Ryan, stand your ground, but “let Joe be Joe.” That will work better than trying to fit him into the mold we would like for the debate. Net result for two debates: one wouldn’t say enough, the other wouldn’t shut up. I think it’s got to work in Romney/Ryan’s favor.
“MITTMENTUM”
Joe called Ryan out as a liar nearly every time he opened his mouth. It’s not effective to counter a bully and a liar by calling him a liar in return.
I was concerned what it might mean for the debate when it was reported that Ryan walked out of an interview. Tonight, I think he did what he needed to do. Two debates to go, with the edge still held by Romney/Ryan.
Where do you see me suggesting Ryan call Joe a liar? An elegant way to make that point is to say, “That’s inaccurate. The fact, according to their own reports/studies/records is that…..” or, “Again, Joe is inaccurate in his facts. The true facts are, based on such and such, that …..”
There really wasn’t an elegant way for Ryan to call out Biden that would have helped Ryan. You just can’t argue with a fool… particularly a petty, mean and nasty fool. It demeans you and makes them happy. The only way Ryan could win this would be on the likeability scale. You have to sacrifice your desire to beat them down by being measured and mature.
I agree with JackRussell here. There were many times when I wish that Ryan would have responded to Biden’s lies in a calm collected ‘fact check’ kind of way. Don’t call him a liar, just use stats against him.
Joe Trippi, a Democrat said Ryan won the debate.
Ryan won the debate because he showed he was up for the job. Joe Biden was an also ran.
Ryan should have found a gentlemanly way to put Martha in her place over her interruptions. Newt would have found a way.
I would have gladly taken the ungentlemanly punch in the face for both of the useless twits.
I thought I had the best tweet:
Just like my family at Thanksgiving. Respectful young man with the world at his feet trying to shut up drunk crazy hostile Uncle.
Follow me on Twitter at @21LambChop
Ryan did well. Biden made loud jerk faces and heckle noises. That’s very off-putting; everyone has been in a discussion with someone who behaved like that and it doesn’t give them points when they aren’t making real ones. Ryan showed himself to be very knowledgeable on every subject; he held his own and he came of a thousand percent more personally likeable.
Krauthammer made a point of this. Dr K said that if you heard it on the radio, Biden won. If you saw it on television, Ryan won.
I only watched thirty minutes and I was ready to slap Biden silly to match his look.
Streetcar Joe couldn’t have done it without the massive help he got from Raddatz. Her performance was absolutely disgusting! Even so he came across merely as a petty old man!
She probably still uses the casserole dish Obama gave her for her wedding.
I think it was generally a draw on substance. But I give Ryan the win because of Biden’s obnoxious demeanor. I don’t see how it’s endearing to people who worked all day, come home to watch a debate to help them make their decision about who to vote for, and find one of the debaters talking over the other, interrupting him, and retardedly laughing at nothing funny.
Joe Biden’s teeth are a shade of white not found in nature.
His leering is starting to make him look like Beavis and/or Butthead. Same tilt of head. Same leering smile. Same incessant laugh. Same I.Q.
The Fixodent is starting to stain his dentures.
Biden simply played being a good lapdawg for the administration and did OK with the exception of the facts the continuous smirking and laughing.
All in all, I give a slight edge to Ryan who missed out on two or three golden opportunities…
My takeaway from this debate:
#5. Calm, collected Ryan.
#4. Hostile “moderator” who kept interrupting Ryan
#3. Nasty-old-man act
#2. Interruptions, interruptions, interruptions.
And…drum roll, please…
#1. The Cheshire Smirk.
Clip of the Vice President right before he walked out on stage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IY9Gi9VutA
Biden typified the campaign … be loud, paint the other guys as liars, blame all failure on Republicans, dominate the discussion, (which big media enables)
I don’t think Joe’s sincere “trust me” is as trustworthy as it used to be
Focus groups showing more support for Biden.
The focus group said that Biden was rude and disrespectful to Ryan.
No shift in the undecideds.
They thought Biden was more forceful and knowledgeable but you’re right..no one made up their mind.
You are just DETERMINED to prop up Biden with biased media reports, aren’t you?
They had the biased “Obama won!” fabrications in place before the last debate, but the shellacking was so horrible, they weren’t able to use it.
I take it you (and Krauthammer?) think someone who constantly interrupts, chuckles audibly when you’re talking, and shouts you down is a winner.
Relax Cal. The only thing that matters are the post debate polls. Ryan was very precise, robot-like. Biden snarled, shot from the hip and was more passionate but rude as well.
I don’t like Biden at all. But he scored points just as Ryan did. I think people will wait and see until Romney and Obama clash again.
phillyguy – Passionate? Shoot from the mouth, er hip? We call that being an asshole. More knowledgeable? Was the focus group all obamaphone recipients? The shitbird outright lied on numerous occasions. You keep on sucking and I’ll keep on buying stock in chapstick and listerine.
The fact checkers aren’t being kind to Biden.
…which is bad news for the Dems. They were counting on Biden to move the needle.
P.S. Even allowing for my partisan conservative bias, I CANNOT for the life of me see the “moderate” and “nonpartisan” crowd taking kindly to Joe Biden’s behavior. They might not say so, but just about everyone has had to deal with someone like that — be it a boss, acquaintance, salesman, smart-aleck subordinate — and hates it.
I don’t think Biden was trying to move the needle, or at least certainly not with undecided voters. What we saw after the last debate was a bunch of undecided voters jump onto the Romney ship. These were people that didn’t like the current administration but wanted Romney to give them a good reason to vote for him. And Romney did. Now thinking about it strategically, is there anyway to get those undecided voters to switch to Obama? I say no. They auditioned Romney in the first debate, and liked what they saw. So if nonindependents are moving towards Romney, what does the Obama campaign need to do? They need to motivate their base, they need to get every liberal with a faded Obama poster excited enough to go out and vote. If they can get enough democrats to vote, that they can pull of the D+11 spread that the pollsters are using, then they can win. So that’s what Joe was doing, rallying the base, because Obama demotivated them after the first debate.
We all can better appreciate Jim Lehrer about now. Think if Raddatz had “moderated” the Romney-Obama debate. Would Romney been able to emerge the way he did with Lehrer?
This is the challenge. And it will be the challenge when Romney and Obama next debate. Ryan couldn’t do anything about Biden, but I wonder, could he have said something about Raddatz, to her face? It seems that something needs to be said or done at some point. Unless we’re masochists.
I’m wondering if little miss Martha got the word that massuh obastard was unhappy with Jim Lehrer for not bailing his diva ass out in the Romney smack-down and did her best to undermine Ryan. After all, a salad bowl and matching serving set has to be worth at least something.
Biden’s response to the question about campaign negativity and nastiness… turned into campaign negativity and nastiness.
Why doesn’t the media ever bring up that Biden and son were involved in a lawsuit involving allegations of hedge fund fraud. He’s such a hypocrite.
Biden was silly, shallow, stupid, infantile and patronizing. All his posing, leering, sighing, head-shaking,etc…TV is a Very HOT Medium and Biden’s idiotic behavior won’t play with adult undeideds. Seeing Frank Luntz’s ‘Undecided Focus Group’ on Hannity, they–especially virtually ALL the women–didn’t buy the teenage boy crap. FAILED to impress.
Paul Ryan was fully ADULT and in command of class, confidence, smarts and dignity. WINNER, easily & obviously.
The Grimacing Blonde Doofus was completely in the tank for the Dems. Helps us Repubs. Really cringe inducing.
Well, that went about as well as could be expected. I was annoyed that Raddatz kept the focus on foreign policy, giving barely any time to domestic issues and especially the ones Ryan is an expert on. And just when he would get going on Medicare or the deficit Raddatz or Biden would cut Ryan off and change the subject.
Disgraceful.
And I have no idea what Ryan could have done about it without looking peevish. It was Raddatz’s job to control Biden and she absolutely relinquished that duty.
Obama and Biden’s advantage is that few (and no one in the mushy middle, i.e., the “undecideds”) really want to believe their leaders are capable of such massive and malicious lies and such total incompetence. So Biden’s performance serves the cause far better than Obama’s — he comes on with such force and confidence he overwhelms the weakminded, overwhelms their imaginative capacity to believe the worst. I predicted last week Biden would turn in a piece of performance art, a truly over-the-top show. It’s exactly what he did. He knows his audience — the weak and impressionable. Think about it — anybody who is “undecided” at this point, after the last 3-1/2 years of wreckage, is way too stupid to be respected for discernment.
Either that or they love the attention that now comes from saying you are undecided.
We live in an age of “instant everything” now.
But there’s also a long run.
In a few days, when everyone’s slept on it a couple of times, there will be an overall impression not colored by “instant reaction.”
My take: if one thing is remembered, it will be Joe Biden as a nasty, smirking, cantankerous old goat.
I think you nailed it, CalMark. Biden’s behavior will leave the over-riding impression once the dust has settled.
Professor,
Greg Gutfeld’s tweet, which is the perfect summary take, should be at the top:
“Biden is the drunk at the bar; Martha is the unhappy bartender, and Ryan is the unfortunate salesman caught in the middle.”
https://twitter.com/greggutfeld/status/256575910394867712
My wife’s not-so-interested-in-politics … woman’s take:
Biden seems rude and bizarre. Ryan seems like a very nice young man who needs to be more aggressive to handle the bizarre old guy.
I wonder myself how well Biden played with voters in the middle who are fed up with this administration, but have been at the mercy of fear-mongering. I don’t think he did the campaign any favors. Liberal bullies might cheer, but I doubt that’s the reaction from undecided women voters.
Here’s some good news via PJ Media:
“A snap CNBC poll finds that Ryan won 56% to 39% for Biden. Brit Hume, Joe Trippi (the Democrat operative) Greta Van Susteren and Chris Wallace all panned Biden’s demeanor. A woman on CNN’s focus group called Biden a “buffoon” and the CNN meter during the debate pretty consistently showed a higher line for Ryan than for Biden. If the image of Biden as rude takes hold, then over the coming days he will end up farther From his goal of helping his ticket recover from a bad week.”
In terms of substance, mostly alternating talking points and minor digs, nothing new – except Biden’s repeat of the admin lies on Benghazi, contradicting his own State Dept and dumping the blame on an intelligence apparatus for which Biden apparently doesn’t realize he and Obama hold responsibility. Biden generally defended Ryan’s charges with bursts of derision and the typical political lifer’s kit bag of exaggerations, pretzel logic, and blustery denials. His explanations were not well organized or well spoken, and he was clearly relying on volume and flash over substance and sense. On a score card, each keeps base, edge to Ryan on indies.
In terms of style, Ryan was well prepared, comfortable, earnest, mature, and seemed presidential. Biden was bombastic, the loudest guy in the bar, mugging for the camera, winking at the moderator, smirking, interrupting, and generally acting like an insecure schoolboy. It overshadowed any points he’d scored on substance. Biden did not behave in a manner appropriate to his office for one reason – he is incapable of behaving in a manner appropriate to his office. On a score card, each keeps base, but Biden’s arrogant drunken frat boy demeanor costs him with independents. Ryan does his team better than Biden did his, but few people vote to or away from the vice presidential candidate. A majority of independents will feel Ryan won, and will be put off by Biden’s antics, but this debate won’t get many to commit to Romney just yet. It does move them in that direction, however. Biden will have succeeded only in reassuring a flagging Democrat base that their guys will at least try to put up a fight, however obnoxiously.
Victory: Ryan, but with minimal ‘spoils’.
Here we are with two debates finished and two to go. Who would have thought that a major topic of conversation regarding them would be the behavior of the incumbents? Uh? Ryan is right – this is for adults. If you can’t be so (Obama/Biden), then get out of the way and let the adults get to work!
I’d add to your list of Joe Biden “accomplishments” …
… that he declared he voted against the “credit card” wars despite his votes FOR authorizing the use of military force in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
… declaring that Iran is not that much of a BFD.
It was the used-car salesman vs. the school principal.
You touched on something about Ryan that nobody seems to be talking about, and it’s really the most obvious and important point about Ryan’s presentation of himself to the public tonight.
Ryan is ready to be president, if need be.
[…] William Jacobson’s best Tweets. […]
Proverbs 29:9 When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man,
[a]The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest.
Starting off with Libya. I hope Joe tells her nobody cares about it except Romney and Ryan.
Well, he basically said that … about Iran …
Biden seems to have been channeling Al Gore 2000 with all the sighs and smirks. What comes next? Naomi Wolf telling Barack Obama to wear earth tones because women find them more reassuring?
I haven’t yet decided whether Biden was off his meds or on too many. Thinking, muscle relaxers.
Obiden turned into the godfather at the end.
Great Brando impersonation.
Is it possible for a tie to be a “win”?
Is it possible for a tie be be a “loss”?
It’s not possible.
A hot hashtag on Twitter after the debate is #ThingsThatMakeBidenLaugh. The RNC already has their video edit out. When Biden wasn’t talking over Ryan, he was laughing or smirking. The official count is that Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times in 90 minutes. Over at Powerline Paul Mirengoff wrote that his wife, an independent, was talking back to the TV set telling Biden to shut up and that she never does that. Ann Althouse had the same shut up already response to Biden.
Fred Barnes noted the only Democrat whose probably really delighted is Al Gore. His 2000 debate will no longer be considered the weirdest ever. Left Roger Ebert certainly wasn’t delighted. His tweet was “Biden smiling when nothing is funny.” For once Roger is right. Murdered ambassadors, $16 Trillion Debt, 10.5% unemployment in his home town, Slaughter in Syria. Biden’s response was always to laugh.
How bad was it? Google “Proverbs 29:9 Biden” and you will find dozens of bits about tonight’s debate.
Biden gave Reps a campaign ad that writes itself…side-by-sides of Ryan talking issues and Biden laughing.
Ultimately I don’t think this will sway any voters, which is bad news for Barry-O given the trends. Biden needed to knock it out of the park. Instead, he hit a foul ball.
I think Forbes nailed what was going on with Biden:
This is your brain. (Brain picture)
These are your President’s and Vice-President’s brains on drugs. (Debate pictures)
Any questions?
Best Tweet I saw said that everyone had to finish their drink if Biden let the word Bullshit slipped….
Surprisingly, the Boston Globe gave Ryan a good review:
“Paul Ryan Shows Electorate Getting to Know Him He is No Pushover in Debate With Joe Biden.”
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/11/paul-ryan-shows-electorate-getting-know-him-pushover-debate-with-joe-biden/xS6SYEKtqwq9N7aG0yF07L/story.html
But Biden, at 69, also verged on losing his cool with the 42-year-old congressman, constantly interrupting him as would a parent exasperated with the commentary of a chatty teen. He even snapped at debate moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC News at one point.
While warming to Democrats, such aggressiveness carried the risk of turning off moderate, independent voters in a race polling nationally within the margin of error.
The debate looked like a one way free for all with an ancient Jim Carrey as the Joker trying to out gaff himself one more time.
OF COURSE he laughed and smirked … as those with an arrogant sense of superiority do when they find themselves facing an opponent they consider beneath them.
Whether or not their opponent makes substantial arguments – or they can refute their opponent with substantial arguments – is irrelevant …
… for the attitude is “why should I respect him … why do I have to answer his points … he is BENEATH ME!!!”
It has the same effect as “Let them eat cake”, when the opponent can make substantial arguments.
Re, er, Progressive arrogance, on parade.
I think we were seeing more defensiveness than arrogance. Anytime Ryan said something, Biden was smirking as an automatic defensive reaction. This was especially apparent by the end of the debate.
My sister, a lifelong Democrat, who is still going to vote for O’Bama, thought Biden was a total ass!
My favorites:
This morning:
Mark Knoller @markknoller
Not overheard at the WH this morning: “Mr. President, in the next debate, you need to be more like Joe.”
Last night:
S.E. Cupp @secupp
Biden needs to laugh a little less through the Libya, Middle East, nuclear Iran segment.
Chuck Woolery @chuckwoolery
Biden, my strong catholic belief has driven me to support gay marriage, abortion forced birth control on the church and blatant lying. Amen
Greta Van Susteren @gretawire
I think i might turn this off if it were not my job to watch it…the interruptions make it impossible to learn anything
[…] Jacobson has aggregated a whole bunch of Tweets from the Left and the Right. Well done, […]
Raddatz should be unempolyed this morning.
I think Biden sealed the deal. Obama/Biden will be unemployed by Feb 1. So will Hillary.
I will be very surprised if Bill/Hill don’t come out swinging. Biden not only threw her under the bus, he backed up to make sure he got her.
Holy crap! [Pun intended].
Type Proverbs 29:9 into Google Images, and look at all the photos that pop up.
Even funnier is if you go to The Onion and type in Biden. The Onion has had “thing” for Biden for years. Biden Dave & Busters, Biden Armor All, etc.