Contrary to Vivek Ramaswamy, America Is A Refuge from Mediocrity
Not only it is objectively not true that the generation raised on Saved by The Bell did not produce quality programmers, but Ramaswamy’s argument is likely handicapped by selection bias.
A very strange but necessary debate about H1B visas is taking place on Twitter/X. With a wave of previously unknown accounts thrown into the mix and lead by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, tech MAGA is arguing in favor of the program as it is currently administered while traditionalist MAGA is against. Although the debate does not feel organic, that this kind of division would surface is inevitable because H1B practices need an urgent overhaul — even against the wishes of Silicon Valley overlords.
As it’s currently used, H1B onshores not any kind of unique talent, but run-of-the-mill programmers whom we can train stateside and who, in fact, already exist here. Ramaswamy ignited a firestorm claiming that somehow that’s just not in the cards:
The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:
Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.
A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.
A culture that venerates Cory from “Boy Meets World,” or Zach & Slater over Screech in “Saved by the Bell,” or ‘Stefan’ over Steve Urkel in “Family Matters,” will not produce the best engineers.
Unfortunately, too many Americans are willing to accept these kinds of arguments. Not only it is objectively not true that the generation raised on Saved by The Bell did not produce quality programmers, but Ramaswamy’s argument is likely handicapped by selection bias.
I was a part of the brain drain from the USSR, and I can assure you that foreign lands are not full of Brahmins and Mandarins. Because from colonial days on, America had no problem attracting foreign elites, be it the Puritans or the White Russians, many people here get the impression that everyone abroad is smart. This impression is cemented because the prominent foreigners — the kind we are most likely to be see — are above average. Also because, being foreigners, they possess a different kind of knowledge. For instance, some viewers were impressed with Russian president’s Vladimir Putin’s command of Russian history that he showcased in Tucker Carlson’s interview early this year, but is it at all surprising that a Russian man with a higher education knows the basics of Russian history? What’s more surprising is that the future Russian president likely purchased his master’s diploma — but that’s a whole different story.
Stiffening anti-intellectualism defined Soviet life from the start. Communist ideology lent itself very easily to uravnilovka, the derogatory slang for forced equality. Though arguably it fit neatly into the perennial condition of the Russian peasant community, or mir, uravnilovka was injected into society during the Bolshevik revolution when wealth was redistributed, decimating not only the rich, but middle class intelligentsia.
Forced redistribution is the theme of Mikhail Bulgakov’s 1925 novella Heart of A Dog in which the protagonist named Preobrazhensky, a sophisticated, accomplished and respected in his circle professor of medical science, clashes with an uncouth proletarian Sharikov. Backed by the power of the state, Sharikov feels entitled to live on Preobrazhensky’s property and run his life — after all, if everyone is equal and his host’s excellence is nothing but a source of irritation.
Although in less than a generation, Joseph Stalin set up a managerial class with its own distribution networks and neo-bourgeois habits — the wives of the party bosses were to be homemakers, for instance — the ideological underpinnings of the Soviet life didn’t change significantly. Ordinary workers were to be equal to each other, meaning everybody got paid about the same amount. In a workplace, uravnilovka produced downward pressure on productivity because it removed the impetus to excel. It was fundamentally anti-intellectual: school grades were given on merit which, at least in theory, determined college admissions and work appointments, academic success had little bearing on future earnings.
Moreover, for the duration of Soviet history, Soviet intelligentsia felt besieged by the dual force of state repressions and popular animus. On one hand, for all of their self-congratulation about culturing the masses, the Communist Party tolerated no dissent and advanced a highly conformist aesthetic. Dissidents found themselves targets of prosecution. On the other hand, the party cadres periodically whipped up popular anti-intellectual fervor — the most notorious case was the haunting of Boris Pasternak. The writer was awarded the Nobel Prize in literature for his 1957 novel Doctor Zhivago, which was banned in the USSR. In order to force him to refuse the award, the authorities promoted a letter to the editor campaign. Concerned citizens reassured newspapers that they didn’t read the book, but they knew why it was bad. The message implanted in the heads of the Soviet subjects: reading and thinking for oneself is trouble.
Soviet life rewarded a good degree of aggression. But it’s not just that the mild-mannered nerds didn’t punch their way through the line to the meat counter — the failure that earned them nothing but contempt of your average zhlob, or a dimwit — the material conditions of workers of mind labor were far from ideal. After years of study, an average engineer was no better off than a menial worker, not because of market demands, but because of how the state valued their efforts. On top of it, the Soviet economy provided little in the way of career opportunities. A late 70’s folk rock song by the biggest underground star of the era Boris Grebenshchikov starts of “I am an engineer for 100 rubles [a month]/and will never get more than that.”
Soon after he wrote the track, Grebenshchikov was kicked out of that job for playing rock-n-roll and, to his own great satisfaction, found janitorial work. That gig went along with his creative endeavors. Whether or not Soviet intelligentsia withdrew into marginal occupations, intellectual life was largely driven underground.
Official culture was most appealing to the — at best — mediocre. Soviet uravnilovka meant that everyone had to be the same materially and intellectually and since most people couldn’t achieve excellence, the few who could had to be cut down. That applied to any sphere of life. “What are you, better than everyone?” a familiar jealous saying went.
A look at the people who excelled under socialism filled the hearts of intelligentsia with dread. The midlevel managerial class was not particularly sophisticated and the Politburo was visibly subpar. Bolsheviks were among the best educated people of their time, but after Stalin eliminated them, mediocrity ascended. On account of her humble educational background, the one time Minister of Culture Yekaterina Furtseva was nicknamed the Weaver by the artists she supervised.
Until the very recent introduction of woke into American society, nothing as aggressively equalizing as uravnilovka existed in the United States. I know that because immigration allowed many people in my community to realize their potential stateside. It’s not that anti-intellectualism doesn’t exist in the U.S., but there is place here for different kinds of people, including those in STEM.
If American students today are in no rush to get into technical fields, it’s only in part due to the contemptible state of our education. Americans are smart — few are willing to spend college years buried in the library to get into a field where the wages are undercut by foreign labor.
If in the future we will curtail H1B abuses, it shouldn’t be too hard to replace them with domestic workers. Most of programming jobs require not four-year degrees but certifications that are relatively cheap and don’t take too long to obtain. During the late 90’s DotCom boom quite a few American kids learned to code because markets asked for it. If Ramaswamy met them in high school a few years earlier, he wouldn’t occur to him that they are any kind of intellectuals. Many were, of course, but they really didn’t need to be to fill these positions.
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An example of what is wrong was Andre Rison, a high school student on my father. Rison was belligerent about learning, my father was going to flunk him. But my father was diagnosed with kidney cancer and off for about a month. School administrators bullied the substitute teacher to pass him. He would not have had a pro career if not for that. Rison was, is a screw up, squander everything he made.
Same Rison that got his ass beat at the line of scrimmage by Prime Time? In front of God and everybody?
Vivek is wrong because…
Russia?
Sorry. Not buying the argument. What Vivek is saying aligns with my own experience and observations.
Anyone who thinks we shouldn’t permit the best and brightest to better our country regardless of race or national origin (and permitted legally) should f*ck right off.
Nobody is objecting to the best and the brightest; its the mediocre with minimal skills that we object to.
Not surprisingly, BigTech wants to maximize profits at the expense of American worker salaries, and the H1B system is clearly facilitating this. Sorry, but MAGA doesn’t believe that its not the government’s mission or in our national interest to enrich the tech sector.
Yeah much of the Visa allocation is for lower level semi skilled work. The program has been in many cases perverted from what is advertised.
Another issue is the granting of work permits to Spouses. My neighbor in El Paso was a Physician on a J1 Visa and had a waiver from the requirement to return home. In essence once that visa waiver is granted if they gonna get a green card and become a permanent resident alien. The spouse was allowed entry and granted a work permit and he worked in ….you guessed it… tech …running a small Univ IT dept.
Both of these folks were exactly the ones we want to immigrate to the USA. Neither was in H1B.
That’s not the argument. It’s a dishonest deflection from the argument.
The H1B program may need to be revamped but the author is smoking crack if they don’t see our public school system descending into mediocracy at a rapid clip, the reading and math competency scores prove it. The Universities may produce some good engineers and programmers but they have gone so woke that I’d not want to hire any whining “me me me” kids out of them either. They are a cancer in the workplace. Both Vivek and Elon are quite right in what they are saying and since they both have a little more experience trying to run businesses than either the author or the critics trying to pile on I’m going to listen to them.
This entire thing is just a media driven storm to try and sabotage Trump by sowing dissension in his administration before Biden finally disappears. I’m listening to none of it.
Rah rah, our team won! Isn’t the prom queen GORGEOUS?
Yeah, Greg won a GE Grant for his science fair project and is already being head-hunted by major tech firms. YAWWWNNNN…
Vivek probably had India in mind when he made that comparison. I can’t tell you anything about India, so I stick with the USSR.
When they show you who they are, believe them
I don’t like this worm
It was telling when he said we needed “more Whiplash”
I’ve never seen a more insane take. You can’t watch that movie and think it’s a positive take on self-sacrifice. Not unless you’re a psychopath.
Wow! He actually said that? (they cut it off on the excerpt here, right at that point!)
That movie was completely ridiculous and as stupid as stupid gets. I watched it and couldn’t believe anyone had actually been dumb enough to make such a sh*tty movie about such despicable, useless people.
Whiplash stands as one of the worst movies of all time, with a message that stands as one of the dumbest, most asinine messages possible. I have serious doubts about anyone who liked that movie. It was awful from every single angle.
“few are willing to spend college years buried in the library to get into a field where the wages are undercut by foreign labor.”
I had a tech job working at a SV defense contractor building 6-18ghz LNA GasFet avionics amplifiers in the R&D engineering testing section. It was very cool hands-on work. My engineering boss was a great guy.
Most of the clean room techs were SE Asians with green cards (they couldn’t qualify for security clearances above Confidential). Supervisors would setup their scalar network analyzers, noise meters etc., and then put special masking tape over the frequency displays. Performative bull-s.
A few of those guys were patriot newcomers. One escaped the Khmer Rouge killing fields – his whole family murdered. Some mainland Chinese. The South Koreans were alright guys and quite a few Hmong women working the fiddly module bonding equipment. Finger dexterity +10 attributes!
All of our module work was under microscopes.
Long story short, the hourly wage was terrible – I was earning less than Bay Area Safeway grocery store checkers. And all that with industry cents and a security clearance a few rungs above Confidential – building and assembling components for missiles and low watt waveguide detectors etc.
I quit* and went to work for a residential-commercial electrician contractor – double+ wage. He was another awesome boss.
*I felt pretty guilty abandoning my engineer boss and told him so.
I forgot to say that a few were naturalized citizens and would adopt Anglo-Saxon first names – one guy went from Hue to Steve. I was talking to him about the name change and mentioned that he could’ve chosen Huey, but he was having none of it.
I like Vivek, but if he’s trying to claim that Indian culture is superior to American culture then he has got his head so far up his a** it isn’t funny. Indian culture is an anchor that has held down one of the richest, oldest, and smartest populations for MILLENIA!! Indian culture has rendered, what should be a beautiful, fertile territory, awash in resources and genius, a veritable sh*thole with more disgusting garbage and repulsive behavior than any Westerner could even imagine (which is really saying something, given the dregs we now have in Western society).
The only reason the INdian economy has ANY jobs, at all, these days, is because the British colonized them and forced English on the nation. Without English (so much as Indian English is) there never would have been any INdian call centers, Indian immigration to the West would have been far less and far less productive and the Indian economy, right now, would still be centered around dying garments by hand in the Ganges and, perhaps, selling wigs to black girls (though maybe even not that).
Indian culture suffers a couple of major problems that has always held back any society bound by it – it glorifies theft and lying and corruption. That kills societies.
Vivek is way off the mark on his moronic culture comment. And none of it has anything to do with prom queens and jocks. We need to get back to valuing prom queens, rather than the class whores who are now in favor.
Mediocrity is mostly in management regardless. Sometimes a hero does some good work and manages to avoid promotion and then there are a few years of excellence, until he’s defeated somehow, usually for having a bad attitude.
This is codified in Putt’s Law and Putt’s Corollary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putt%27s_Law_and_the_Successful_Technocrat
The backlash against Ramaswamy and Musk is heating up. I know H-1B activists who are fighting mad and ready to go on the attack. Trump had better be careful. He needs the MAGA base more than he needs those two. Not everyone is a Trump bot.
She went to Cal-Berkeley and lives in San Francisco. When you get those places straightened out, maybe we will listen.
As currently run in practice the H1B program is broken. The past few decades have seen it expanded and used to bring in cheaper labor for lower end tech jobs; drudge work. The imported foreign workers are happy to come and work for low wages. The wages are more than they would get at home, they get a couple years in the USA, experience on their resume and most importantly a shot at a green card.
The corporations are happy b/c they get positions filled and the drudge work done at an artificially low wage by a very compliant workforce; if one of these workers gets canned they gotta go home and lose their shot at a green card.
It’s native born workers that get hosed. Wages are low for these positions and have been kept low precisely b/c there’s an annual influx of new imported foreign workers to fill these positions. Over time that decreased interest from native born population in these positions and gaining the skill sets to perform them.
Relatively quickly we can spin up native born workers qualified to do these drudge jobs and end its use for lower skilled tech jobs three years would get us way more than halfway there….but these companies gotta increase wages/benefits to attract them and keep them. That means higher prices on the end products so no whining about tech products costing more in a few years.
Part of the issue is that we shipped jobs overseas. I started my tech career as an 800 number on the side of a compaq computer box. Worked my way through 4 or 5 help desk jobs getting training when I could. Now I am team lead for a group of 9 windows engineers supporting around 2500 windows servers. My degree is in economics and I changed careers at 35 to do tech. But today you could not do what I did. All the entry level help desk jobs where you learn real world troubleshooting, how to handle users that don’t know what they are doing, and things like that have all moved overseas. Not because there were no people here to do them but because for what it cost to hire one person here they could hire 2 in Mexico or Central America, 3 in Vietnam, or 4 in India. And now they complain there are no Americans with experience. I can tell you the current model for companies that can do it is to have mostly offshore. I am the only American on my team. I plan stuff and interact with the customer and the offshore guys do the work and I jump in if things start to go sideways. I know programmers and most of them work the same way now. Offshore people write the code, they just check it for mistakes and test. Not because they cannot write code but it is cheaper to have 10 Indian programmers and 1 American who checks things than 5 Americans doing all of it. Maybe at the very high end it is hard to find Americans that can do the programming and engineering that SpaceX and companies like that need but that is because you don’t learn that right out of school. You learn the lower level stuff and after some yrs of experience can do the higher level, but if 9 out of 10 lower level jobs are offshore then 9 out of 10 people that want to do programming will find something else because they have to eat.
I am sympathetic to arguments that US educational factories put out too shoddy a product for our high-tech industries.
I am not sympathetic to any argument that the reason for it is because the raw ingredients for their product were low quality on the intake dock.
And anybody who depends on any argument that doesn’t include an admission that the primary benefit of hiring foreigners is decreased labor costs needs to be hurried out of town on a rail..
Companies hire foreign graduates of American universities.
Although American education urgently needs improvement, not many techies are needed. Seasoned American workers are told to train their own replacements, unfortunately.
Example: Disney 2015.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4037392/Disney-fired-250-American-workers-replaced-Indian-staff-visas-suit-says.html
Decreased labor costs are one aspect. Having an employee who will show up, do the work and leave the drama at home is another.
Many young American workers don’t seem to understand that employers have no desire to be their surrogate parents. And to be honest, I’m tired of hearing about “work/life balance” from someone who sleeps more hours per week than they work.
There’s definitely some truth to your point. Employers don’t want drama. Some younger woke and/or DEI influenced workers definitely bring drama. The imported foreign workers by and large are compliant b/c there’s always the threat of being fired. deportation follows it and they lose a shot at a green card.
Wife says common themes for people showing up at her place for an interview is to dress poorly as in Crocs, spandex pants etc, use poor English, sit all slouched with legs spread, expect pay that is way out of the ball park for the job and tell them all the things they won’t do instead of what they will like not work weekends, not work nights, not work holidays, not come in before 0800 etc. If for some reason they get hired they find out how many days a quarter they can call out before getting fired and immediately run it up to max so you can’t depend on them to show up.
Oh, and a bunch come in for an interview reeking of pot. At least for now that is an immediate disqualification. Why would someone come in for an interview to drive a forklift stoned?
Vivek may have a point!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4qXYign0gw
Musk and Ramaswamy are engaged in grade F persuasion. Trump told them to shut up.
This makes me wonder if they are too foolish to be trusted with the job.
Parents who are willing to outsource the raising of their children to the government schools lead to managers who are tempted to outsource their jobs to foreigners.
The prosperity of the US makes it easier to foolishly waste ones potential. India doesn’t have that problem.
The failures of our government schools and our culture cause companies to look for alternative solutions. That is why tech industries sponsor organizations like FIRST Robotics.
From https://www.perplexity.ai/
———–
The 2024 FIRST Championship in Houston shattered previous attendance records, bringing together an unprecedented gathering of young innovators and STEM enthusiasts. With approximately 50,000 attendees from more than 50 countries, the event marked a significant milestone in the history of FIRST robotics competitions. The championship featured an impressive array of talent, including:
o Over 18,000 students competing across various robotics categories
o More than 3,500 FIRST Robotics Competition teams participating in the 2024 season
o 600 top-performing teams advancing to the championship round
o Approximately 7,900 FIRST Tech Challenge teams competing throughout the 2023-2024 season
This record-breaking attendance underscores the growing global interest in robotics and STEM education, showcasing the event’s role as a premier platform for nurturing young talent in these fields.
———–
https://www.firstinspires.org/
I’m sorry, but this is quasi-woke pap … and too long by half.
Programming is WORK, and people who employ programmers pay them to produce something measurable … something we professional folks call a deliverable.
Huge numbers of our young people have been inculcated with the idea that all you have to do is show up: everyone gets a participation trophy.
Folks from other cultures don’t have this mindset. They are results driven.
End of story … not all that difficult to understand.
Ask a business owner in any industry what the home grown employment pool is like.
I really have to laugh at people getting all offended on behalf of some of the worst employment candidates I’ve had the misfortune to come across in my 3 decades of business ownership.
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