Image 01 Image 03

Federal Appeals Court Upholds Most of Restrictive New York Concealed Carry Gun Law; Next Stop SCOTUS

Federal Appeals Court Upholds Most of Restrictive New York Concealed Carry Gun Law; Next Stop SCOTUS

Federal Second Circuit Court of Appeals upholds “good moral character” requirement of New York’s concealed carry gun law, setting up expected showdown at the U.S. Supreme Court

We have been following the twists and turns of litigation battles associated with New York’s most recent concealed carry gun law. This is important, not only because it affects the constitutional rights of millions of law-abiding New York State citizens, but also because this case could be a bellwether for the country, should the U.S. Supreme Court decide to review the case and provide further guidance on the gun rights of citizens nationwide.

You may recall that it all started, as we reported, when SCOTUS struck down New York’s previous concealed carry gun law, which required citizens to make a showing of “special need” when applying for a carry permit, as violative of the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment, in the seminal New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen case:

We…now hold, consistent with Heller and McDonald, that the Second and Fourteenth Amendments protect an individual’s right to carry a handgun for self-defense outside the home.

The parties nevertheless dispute whether New York’s licensing regime respects the constitutional right to carry handguns publicly for self-defense. In 43 States, the government issues licenses to carry based on objective criteria. But in six States, including New York, the government further conditions issuance of a license to carry on a citizen’s showing of some additional special need. Because the State of New York issues public-carry licenses only when an applicant demonstrates a special need for self-defense, we conclude that the State’s licensing regime violates the Constitution.

So after Bruen, as the case is typically called, New York could not require citizens to show a special need to get a concealed carry permit. And boy was Kathy Hochul, the far-left governor of New York, pissed: NY Gov. Hochul Loses Her Mind Over SCOTUS Ruling Striking Down Conceal Carry Law.

So pissed, in fact, that she rapidly called a special session of the New York legislature, and immediately passed a new concealed carry gun law even more restrictive than the previous one: New York Democrats Undermine Supreme Court 2nd Amendment Ruling In New Legislation.

We provided a good summary of the new law’s provisions:

This new law, “intended to thwart the SCOTUS decision,” prohibits concealed carry in “sensitive places” such as “health care facilities; houses of worship; colleges and universities; places where children gather, such as schools, day care centers, playgrounds, parks and zoos; public transportation; places where alcohol or cannabis is consumed; and theaters, concerts, casinos and other entertainment venues.” It also prohibits concealed carry “in any business that does not post a sign saying it’s OK.”

Additionally, although “SCOTUS struck down the prior law as giving too much discretion to the state,…the new legislation has plenty of fuzzy, judgmental standards that reestablish discretion,” such as…add[ing] new requirements for New Yorkers to receive a concealed carry permit, including 16 hours of training on how to handle a handgun, two hours of firing range training, an in-person interview and a written exam, as well as a review of social media accounts.”

As we concluded when the new law was passed, these requirements, taken as a whole mean that “basically, you cannot actually carry. The entire scheme is a willful and knowing evasion of a constitutional right.”

The new law also requires New Yorkers to prove that they are of “good moral character” before qualifying for a concealed carry permit, which sounds suspiciously like the “special need” requirement that SCOTUS had just struck down, and when litigation ensued, federal judge Glen Suddaby found exactly that in striking down most of the new law: Federal Judge Finds Key Parts of New York’s Gun Law Unconstitutional:

Suddaby blocked the part where applicants must prove “good moral character” and allow authorities to review their social media profiles. The move comes a few months after SCOTUS overturned “a prior licensing regime, which required applicants prove a need for self-protection” and good moral character. The justices found it “too subjective.”

Suddaby found the new “good moral character” provision “was no better” than the original:

However, instead, the CCIA expressly prohibits the issuance of a license unless the licensing officer finds (meaning unless the applicant persuades him or her through providing much information, including “such other information required by review of the licensing application that is reasonably necessary and related to the review of the licensing application”) that the applicant is of “good moral character,” which involves undefined assessments of “temperament,” “judgment” and “[]trust[].” Setting aside the subjective nature of these assessments, shouldering an applicant with the burden of showing that he or she is of such “good moral character” (in the face of a de facto presumption that he or she is not) is akin to shouldering an applicant with the burden of showing that he or she has a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community, which is prohibited under NYSRPA. In essence, New York State has replaced its requirement that an applicant show a special need for self-protection with its requirement that the applicant rebut the presumption that he or she is a danger to himself or herself, while retaining (and even expanding) the open-ended discretion afforded to its licensing officers.

“Simply stated, instead of moving toward becoming a shall-issue jurisdiction, New York State has further entrenched itself as a shall-not-issue jurisdiction,” wrote the judge. [emphasis added]

So the case went up to the federal Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, which, after hearing oral argument that I attended in Manhattan, upheld much of the New York concealed carry law, reversing a good deal of Judge Suddaby’s opinion, including the “good moral character” requirement, although the court did strike down some of the law:

The Court’s 261-page opinion invalidates requirement to provide social media to reviewing officials and bans on concealed carry in businesses open to the public and houses of worship, but lets some other provisions stand, such as the required showing of “good moral character” and the ban on concealed carry in “sensitive” public places.

Because the Second Circuit upheld the “good moral character” requirement, the Plaintiffs in the case filed a Petition with SCOTUS asking the Court to review the case: Second Circuit’s Partial Upholding of New York’s Gun Carry Law Appealed to SCOTUS:

Read the whole thing to get a good flavor of what it takes to get the Court to take a case, a truly daunting task (“the Court accepts 100-150 of the more than 7,000 cases that it is asked to review each year.”)

The key part of the Petition is its discussion of the New York law’s requirement that New Yorkers prove that they have “good moral character” before obtaining a concealed carry permit:

[T]his case would allow this Court the opportunity to clarify that government may not selectively disarm law-abiding members of “the people” whenever licensing officials feel they are of poor character, potentially dangerous, or otherwise unworthy of enjoying the natural right to self-defense with which they were endowed by their Creator….

In Bruen, this Court rejected New York’s requirement that, to be authorized to bear arms in public, citizens first must demonstrate “proper cause” — defined as “a special need for self-protection.” Here, the panel sanctioned New York’s stand-in requirement that citizens convince licensing officials of their “good moral character” prior to licensure. As the district court explained, New York simply “replaced” proper cause with good moral character, “while retaining (and even expanding) the open-ended discretion afforded to its licensing officers….”

New York’s “good moral character” standard is…a prohibited “suitability” determination and, as the district court noted, is merely a surrogate for the “proper cause” standard that was struck down in Bruen…Indeed, under the CCIA, New York officials decide whether a person “ha[s] the essential character, temperament and judgement necessary to be entrusted with a weapon….”

It is quite difficult to understand Bruen’s criticism of “suitability” not to include “good moral character.” And it is even more difficult to believe that this Court would approve the discretionary power to deny carry licenses to “all Americans” unless they first “convince a ‘licensing officer’” of their general morality.

[bold added; italics in original]

I predicted that SCOTUS would not take the case, based on how difficult it is to get the Court to take any case, but suspected it might GVR the case based on Rahimi, a case involving whether a federal statute taking someone’s guns away when they have a domestic violence restraining order against them is unconstitutional (it’s not):

Another possibility is that the Supreme Court might “GVR” the case, or at least the “good moral character” provision, in light of Rahimi. GVR stands for “grant, vacate, and review,” and basically in this case would tell the Second Circuit to redo the opinion’s good moral character section in light of what the Supreme Courts says in Rahimi, assuming Rahimi has something to say about moral character, which it might since it concerns those subject to domestic violence restraining orders.

That is exactly what SCOTUS did, essentially asking the Second Circuit to take another look based on Rahimi. So the Second Circuit did so, and reached the same conclusion that they did initially. You can read the whole thing here, and at the end of this post, but here is the key part concerning the requirement that a concealed carry applicant prove that they have “good moral character”:

First, the requirement is not facially invalid because it is not unconstitutional in all its applications. The CCIA’s definition of “character” is a proxy for dangerousness: whether the applicant, if licensed to carry a firearm, is likely to pose a danger to himself, others, or public safety. And “[s]ince the founding, our Nation’s firearm laws have included provisions preventing individuals who threaten physical harm to others from misusing firearms.” Rahimi, 144 S. Ct. at 1896. We therefore cannot conclude that every denial on grounds of “good moral character” as defined by New York will violate the Second Amendment, though various avenues lie open for as-applied challenges.

Next, we disagree with the district court’s conclusion that affording licensing officers a modicum of discretion to grant or deny a concealed carry permit is inconsistent with the Nation’s tradition of firearm regulation. For as long as licensing has been used to regulate privately-owned firearms, issuance has been based on discretionary judgments by local officials. Licensing that includes discretion that is bounded by defined standards, we conclude, is part of this Nation’s history and tradition of firearm regulation and therefore in compliance with the Second Amendment.

Finally, Bruen does not forbid discretion in licensing regimes—on the contrary, the Bruen Court specifically stated that its decision did not imperil the validity of more than a dozen licensing schemes that confer discretion materially identical to the CCIA. 597 U.S. at 38 n.9. At most, the Court indicated that the practical operation of a licensing scheme is relevant to whether it is impermissibly discretionary. It was therefore error to strike down New York’s scheme on a facial challenge.

Basically, the court made much of the fact that New York’s gun law is being challenged as part of a “facial” challenge, i.e. based solely on the text of the statute, and not as an as-applied challenge, i.e. based on how licensing officials actually apply the law.

That seems like a dodge to me, setting up the inevitable clash at the U.S. Supreme Court.

We’ll keep you posted.

DONATE

Donations tax deductible
to the full extent allowed by law.

Comments


 
 0 
 
 5
Recargador1 | November 22, 2024 at 11:09 am

I wonder if Ramon Rivera had to show “good moral character” to acquire those knives he used to murder 3 people? Asking for a friend…..

I could have sworn the “good moral character” thing had been knocked down numerous times before, in other federal jurisdictions. Because it’s an entirely subjective requirement, prone to abuse.


     
     0 
     
     5
    UnCivilServant in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 11:27 am

    Each time this goes back to the courts, I’m hoping that the SCOTUS will get fed up and go “It is obvious that the New York Legislature holds nothing but contempt for the constitutional rights of its citizens and is thus barred from enacting further legislation regluating the use or sale of arms, and any existing legislation is void as unconsitutional.”

    Better yet, leave out the state specific language and give back the stolen 2nd amendment to the people where it belongs – constitutional carry for all.


     
     0 
     
     3
    DaveGinOly in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 12:07 pm

    I should think that having been convicted of certain, named crimes should be the standard for determining a person’s lack of moral character. Absent a conviction, what authority does a state have to deny the exercise of a constitutionally-guaranteed right? Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence, and why doesn’t this presumption extend to a person’s moral character (as a presumption of good moral character until the state proves otherwise by due process)?


     
     0 
     
     2
    TargaGTS in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 12:20 pm

    This is our new nature of the federal court system. If SCOTUS grants cert to this specific case and eventually finds the ‘good moral character’ standard to be constitutional infirm (as it should and may have already), that won’t stop subordinate District and even Circuit Courts from continuing to allow certain states/jurisdictions to try an implement similar restrictions. We’re in the lawfare era of American history.


     
     0 
     
     1
    jb4 in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 2:09 pm

    Well, we all know that Trump voters are either “deplorables” or “garbage”, so can’t possibly have “good moral character”. /s


     
     0 
     
     1
    Martin in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 2:32 pm

    Exactly. Good moral character seems like the kind of language that would have been used in the Jim Crow south to deny blacks the right to have firearms. This is the exact way you get rule by men not law.

Still looking through the 2nd Amendment where it says firearms need to be licensed.


     
     0 
     
     1
    GWB in reply to scaulen. | November 22, 2024 at 11:59 am

    In the case of concealed carry, you’re not licensing the weapon. You’re licensing the person. Are they someone who should be carrying a concealed weapon around in public?

    Either way, your argument holds.


     
     0 
     
     0
    alaskabob in reply to scaulen. | November 22, 2024 at 12:34 pm

    I give you Tom Grieve, former prosecutor and now defense attorney… great topics

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyaVAlFnc4


     
     0 
     
     2
    DaveGinOly in reply to scaulen. | November 22, 2024 at 12:49 pm

    This is why I really, really hate the “historical analysis” used by our courts. The analysis presumes that restrictions on firearms, if made early enough in our history and having not been found unconstitutional are, in fact, constitutional. But this acceptance is belied by the fact that our legislatures began cranking out obviously unconstitutional legislation (e.g., the Alien and Sedition Acts) shortly after the Constitution’s ratification. Temporal association with the founders and the Constitution’s ratification is not a valid metric by which to judge a law’s validity. It is further belied by the fact that many early firearms statutes were intentionally enacted to prevent certain persons from freely exercising their right to arms (e.g., free blacks). They were prima facie unconstitutional because of the ends they were meant to meet.

    The latter point bring me to this – Many early restrictions of firearms weren’t even challenged in court because the people affected by them didn’t have the ability or the social standing (necessary to avoid the bias of judges) to do so. Our courts are now presuming that not having been challenged is an indication of a law’s constitutionality. It is not, the logic is faulty.

    Finally, what about laws that were challenged and found constitutional? Trick question. There are no such laws. Why do I say this? Because in our system, court decisions can’t make such determinations. At best, our courts can rule a law isn’t unconstitutional for the reasons argued by the plaintiff. This doesn’t mean that there exists no argument by which a court could find a law unconstitutional, it merely means that the arguments presented to the court failed to demonstrate (to the court’s satisfaction) that the law is unconstitutional. It’s defective logic to derive from a court’s failure to strike a law as “unconstitutional” means that the law is constitutional. The only practical effect of a court’s ruling is to inhibit (but not entirely prevent) the argument’s use in the future against the same law. Rulings do not prevent the raising of other arguments in the future, any one of which may find the court’s favor. “Constitutionality” works like science. All the previous “proofs” of a theory do not prove the theory correct, while only one falsification of a theory does prove it wrong.

    Given all of the above, this is why the courts should consider all laws solely based on the meaning of the Constitution when it was ratified, the intent of the legislature that enacted the law, the language of the statute, its effect on citizens’ rights, and the application of the principles of freedom, natural rights, and limited government as espoused by the country’s founders.


       
       0 
       
       1
      amatuerwrangler in reply to DaveGinOly. | November 22, 2024 at 3:35 pm

      The first step is to identify a law that regulates or prohibits a person owning or carrying an “arm”, and that such law was in place at the time the Constitution and its Second Amendment was ratified. The Militia Act of 1792 *required* males between the ages of 18 and 44 years of age to acquire and maintain a firearm and appropriate ammunition for it and to respond with same to militia musters.

      To date numerous anti-gun groups and their attorneys have scoured laws enacted during the requisite time frame have failed to find any. That is why so many state laws fail the tests established by Heller and reiterated by Bruen.

Leftists typically have no moral character, so in upstate New York all leftists can be denied their rights?

I don’t think these dunkoffs ever stop to consider how something like this can be used against them. If SCOTUS punts on this Ron DeSantis should pass a law saying people only have 1st Amendment rights if they have “good moral character”.


 
 0 
 
 2
UnCivilServant | November 22, 2024 at 11:19 am

The Second Circus keeps striving to prove it’s worse than the Ninth.


 
 0 
 
 1
filiusdextris | November 22, 2024 at 11:26 am

Given all the frivolous challenges to the Trump administration that will be made before a bunch of far leftist judges, SCOTUS had better have a game plan in place for restoring sanity. I expect they will let the people down overall, even if their opinions they do produce are mostly sound. Roberts has shown little control over the judiciary.

New York latest, most restrictive, voting rights law, which requires citizens to make a showing of proof of ‘good moral character’ in order for their voter registration to be approved, and requires 16 hours of Constitution and American history classes, an in-person interview and a written exam, as well as a review of social media accounts in order to vote, was mostly upheld by the federal court of appeals.

NY liberals are optimistic SCOTUS will uphold NY’s latest, most restrictive, voting rights law.

Because that’s how we politic in the USA: Politicos who win a popularity contest to govern can vomit whatever anti-constitutional nonsense in a perpetual game of wack a mole that assaults the plain enumerated rights of citizens with impunity.


     
     0 
     
     2
    GWB in reply to LB1901. | November 22, 2024 at 12:05 pm

    Likewise, require “good, moral character” to post online or otherwise use your freedom of “the press.” If you put any social media app on your phone or computer it has to be registered with the federal gov’t. And any subsequent sale of said device has to go through a background check. It cannot be recycled without the hard drive and memory being destroyed. Any physical printing press or printer must have a serial number and goes through the same background check/destruction requirements. Anything printed must be “micro-stamped” with the SSN of the person and the serial number of the printer and of the computer.

    That’s all just common sense press control, right?


       
       0 
       
       1
      command_liner in reply to GWB. | November 22, 2024 at 2:13 pm

      GWB, it is not widely known, but certainly is a fact, that almost all PC printers already encode the printer serial number in the image. The steganography is applied in the yellow dots. This has been covered in good detail by the EFF. You can be tracked by what you print. Think about the Reality Winner case: they had her by commission and by content steganographic encoding.

      Steganographic ID is not applied in the industrial HP printers. I know because I wrote some of that firmware. Other steganographic images may be put into the data stream, but trade secret restrictions prevent me from explaining in any usable detail.

      Even less widely known than the evil-in-the-printed-dots is the steganography in widely used software from Adobe. To the best of my understanding, and there are just a few people that know better, there is no Adobe raster format that does not include steganographic serial numbers and other data. Like what Digimarc does, but not the same. Adobe has been at it a long time.

According to the decision at the link the judges were Jacobs, Lynch and Lee.

– Dennis Jacobs: Bush Jr appointee
– Gerald Lynch: Obama appointee
– Eunice Lee: Biden* appointee

https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Second_Circuit

So two Communist Party judges and a GOPe bootlicker. No wonder the reached the conclusion that the Bill of Rights was null and void.


 
 0 
 
 2
alaskabob | November 22, 2024 at 12:36 pm

You have the freedom of speech as long as you don’t talk
You have the right to keep and bear arms as long as you don’t own any
You have the right to remain silent as long as you tell us what we want.


 
 0 
 
 0
ChrisPeters | November 22, 2024 at 12:40 pm

Hmm . . . Maybe I’ll just carry guns UNconcealed.


     
     0 
     
     1
    UnCivilServant in reply to ChrisPeters. | November 22, 2024 at 12:48 pm

    Open Carry is also illegal in New York.

    As is acquiring a firearm without a government permission slip first.


       
       0 
       
       3
      DaveGinOly in reply to UnCivilServant. | November 22, 2024 at 12:57 pm

      I find this a major problem that needs addressing. If open carry is illegal and a permit is needed for concealed carry, the right to bear arms has been extinguished, the former method of carry having been outlawed and the latter having been converted into a privilege. If one has been outlawed or converted to a privilege, the other must remain a right in order for the state to claim “The right still exists.” This claim would be arguably untrue in States like NY.

The Second Circuit should always be expected to produce the outcome most desired by the left. Where politics and the law are in conflict, politics will prevail at the Second Circuit.

I have no social media accounts and if I did they would be no business of anyone but myself. If I don’t have them then how do I prove “good moral character”? What does that even mean and who decides? The local sheriff who is running around on his wife? Some rando judge who has 3 speeding tickets?


 
 0 
 
 2
Tsquared79 | November 22, 2024 at 1:41 pm

Kathy Hochul is going to go nuts when Trump pushes reciprocity across the nation.


     
     0 
     
     0
    RetLEODoc in reply to Tsquared79. | November 22, 2024 at 3:59 pm

    She will just ignore it like NYC threatened (and reportedly did) when LEOSA was passed and signed. Just like she will obstruct in any and every possible way any Trump administration efforts to catch and deport illegal aliens.


 
 0 
 
 0
ChrisPeters | November 22, 2024 at 4:17 pm

New York State’s concealed Marxists should be banned. The Democrats in Albany are killing the state.


 
 0 
 
 0
2smartforlibs | November 22, 2024 at 5:02 pm

Liberal playbook: when you fail don’t stop keep hammering but when you win the war is over nothing more can be challenged. How many time has the SCOTUS already told New Dork pound sand on this issue.


 
 0 
 
 0
ChrisPeters | November 22, 2024 at 5:07 pm

New York’s restrictions should be ignored.


 
 0 
 
 0
sfharding | November 22, 2024 at 6:04 pm

For the past four years, many 2nd amendment cases have been intentionally “slow-walked” by the lower circuits, while state legislators also attempt to circumvent and frustrate these cases advancing to the Supreme Court. This was in the hope that the delays would allow for a change in the makeup of the Supreme Court. With Trump’s election, these games may now be over.

Leave a Comment

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.