Supreme Court Sends Latest New York Gun Case Back to Appeals Court for a Re-Do
Court kicks case finding New York concealed carry statute partially valid back to the Second Circuit in light of the recent SCOTUS Rahimi opinion, which held that laws temporarily disarming individuals who pose a credible threat to others are constitutional
We have been closely following a case out of New York, Antonyuk v. Hochul, that challenged New York’s attempt to do an end-around to avoid the Supreme Court’s Bruen ruling.
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022), as I’m sure you know, held that the previous New York statute that required a citizen to have a “special need” to obtain a concealed carry permit, was unconstitutional:
We…now hold, consistent with Heller and McDonald, that the Second and Fourteenth Amendments protect an individual’s right to carry a handgun for self-defense outside the home.
The parties nevertheless dispute whether New York’s licensing regime respects the constitutional right to carry handguns publicly for self-defense. In 43 States, the government issues licenses to carry based on objective criteria. But in six States, including New York, the government further conditions issuance of a license to carry on a citizen’s showing of some additional special need. Because the State of New York issues public-carry licenses only when an applicant demonstrates a special need for self-defense, we conclude that the State’s licensing regime violates the Constitution.
You got that, right? New York cannot require a New York State citizen to show a “special need” for a carry permit. You meet the requirements, which cannot include the requirement to show of special need, you get the permit.
Well, apparently, Kathy Hochul didn’t get the memo, because shortly after Bruen issued, she signed a new law requiring a showing of “good moral character” prior to receiving a carry permit. The law also banned concealed carry of firearms in many sensitive places, including churches, and mandated that carry in any business was prohibited unless the owner affirmatively posted a sign saying that concealed carry was permitted.
And, of course, litigation immediately ensued, with federal judge Glenn Suddaby striking down the good moral character requirement as well as a provision requiring permit applicants to provide three-years-worth of social media accounts to reviewing officials, among others.
Of course New York immediately appealed, and in March of last year, the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals heard oral argument on the case, which I attended at the federal courthouse in Manhattan.
Interestingly, many groups, some far to the left of center, including the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, the Liberal Gun Club, the Asian Pacific American Gun Owners Association, the National African American Gun Association, the DC Project Foundation, which “is a coalition of female gun owners from all fifty states dedicated to protecting and preserving their Second Amendment rights, and even Operation Blazing Sword–Pink Pistols (“OBSPP“), which “comprises two organizations, Operation Blazing Sword and Pink Pistols, which together advocate on behalf of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (“LGBTQ”) firearm owners, advocated for portions of the new New York law to be stricken.
In December this past year the Second Circuit issued its opinion, striking down the social media requirement and the ban on concealed carry in churches, but allowing the “good moral character” requirement and other “sensitive places” restrictions to stand: Appeals Court Strikes Down Major Portions of New York State Gun Carry Law, But Allows “Sensitive” Places Restrictions:
[N]ow, nine months [after the March 2023 oral argument], we have their 261-page opinion/order, which can be reviewed here:
From Fox News: Gun rights group applauds after federal appeals court deals blow to NY concealed carry law:
Gun rights activists cheered Friday after a federal appeals court struck down parts of New York’s expansive concealed carry law.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit blocked three provisions of New York’s “Concealed Carry Improvement Act” (CCIA), a law Democrats passed last year in response to a Supreme Court ruling that declared the state’s previous concealed carry permitting requirements unconstitutional. In doing so, the appeals court allowed other parts of the law to go into effect.
In a 261-page ruling, the three-judge panel struck down a requirement that gun owners disclose their social media accounts for review when applying for a concealed carry permit. The court also blocked restrictions on carrying firearms on private property that is accessible to the public, as well as a restriction on concealed carry in houses of worship.
Unfortunately, the court held that some portions of the statute comported with the Second Amendment, even after Bruen:
[C]ontroversial parts of the law remain intact, including a requirement that applicants demonstrate good moral character and disclose household and family members on a permit application. New York will also be allowed to enforce bans on concealed carry in so-called “sensitive places,” including theaters, bars, public parks and other spaces.
Since the court kept the good moral character requirement, the Plaintiffs, now Appellants, filed a Petition for Certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court, asking them to take the case: Second Circuit’s Partial Upholding of New York’s Gun Carry Law Appealed to SCOTUS.
The Petition, available for review here, argued that New York’s “good moral character” requirement is incompatible with Bruen, and argued that the case should therefore be reversed:
New York’s “good moral character” standard is…a prohibited “suitability” determination and, as the district court noted, is merely a surrogate for the “proper cause” standard that was struck down in Bruen…Indeed, under the CCIA, New York officials decide whether a person “ha[s] the essential character, temperament and judgement necessary to be entrusted with a weapon….”
It is quite difficult to understand Bruen’s criticism of “suitability” not to include “good moral character.” And it is even more difficult to believe that this Court would approve the discretionary power to deny carry licenses to “all Americans” unless they first “convince a ‘licensing officer’” of their general morality.
[bold added; italics in original]
My take was that this was going to be a tough sell to SCOTUS to get them to review the case, because they take so few cases as it is (“The Supreme Court only ‘accepts 100-150 of the more than 7,000 cases that it is asked to review each year,’ or about one to two percent of cases submitted for review, so the chance of review in any case is slim”).
But, I predicted, one possible course of action SCOTUS could take would to tell the Second Circuit to take another look based on the then-upcoming Rahimi case:
Another possibility is that the Supreme Court might “GVR” the case, or at least the “good moral character” provision, in light of Rahimi. GVR stands for “grant, vacate, and review,” and basically in this case would tell the Second Circuit to redo the opinion’s good moral character section in light of what the Supreme Courts says in Rahimi, assuming Rahimi has something to say about moral character, which it might since it concerns those subject to domestic violence restraining orders.
Well, I’m happy to report that my prediction was right on the money, because on July 2nd the Supreme Court did exactly that:
Petition GRANTED. Judgment VACATED and case REMANDED for further consideration in light of United States v. Rahimi, 602 U. S. ___ (2024).
Rahimi was handed down by SCOTUS on June 21, 2024, as we reported: Supreme Court Upholds Law Temporarily Disarming Person Subject to Domestic Violence Restraining Order:
The U.S. Supreme Court handed down a landmark Second Amendment decision this morning in a case that pitted the Second Amendment against the interests of domestic violence victims.
The Court held 8–1 in United States v. Rahimi that a law temporarily disarming a person subject to a domestic violence restraining order does not violate the Second Amendment in an opinion written by the Chief Justice.
“When an individual has been found by a court to pose a credible threat to the physical safety of another,” the Court held, “that individual may be temporarily disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment.”
You can immediately see the intersection of this New York case and Rahimi: If a person can be stripped, temporarily, of the right to keep and bear arms if they pose a credible threat to another, maybe New York’s good moral character requirement isn’t so outlandish. Of course the counterpoint would be that a citizen applying for a gun permit shouldn’t have to prove that he or she doesn’t beat their spouse. Maybe the sheriff could just do a background check on each applicant to see if they have any outstanding restraining orders?
In any case, it is unclear exactly what happens now, but clearly the Second Circuit will take another look at the case, in light of Rahimi, and will issue another opinion taking Rahimi into account or explaining why their original opinion stands because Rahimi doesn’t apply.
We’ll keep you posted.
Donations tax deductible
to the full extent allowed by law.
Comments
I’m Not A Lawyer, but this NY law seems to start from the position that everyone is NOT of good moral character – then requires you to prove you are of good moral character.
Guilty until proven innocent?
That is a very subjective assessment. Clergy have debated the topic for centuries!
Do I trust NY to properly assess moral character? What scale or characteristics might be applied? Might political leanings be a thumb on their scale? Or a host of other characteristics?
“this NY law seems to start from the position that everyone is NOT of good moral character”
To be fair, it only assumes that every New York citizen is not of good moral character, which may be significantly more defensible.
Dems no longer understand ethics or morality.
They understand. They just don’t care because THEY lack ethics and morality.
The sticking point is defining “good moral character”. What does that mean? In NY it could mean you agree with abortion on demand or sex change operations for kids.
Considering the original demand for three years of social media posts, I’m betting the idea was that the commissar’s position is: no conservative, and especially 2nd Amendment advocates, qualify as being of good moral character.
“then requires you to prove you are of good moral character.”
So they are going back to the 1911 ear use of the Sullivan law to keep those of poor moral character (those from eastern and southern Europe) from getting pistol licenses.
Defining GMC is a very slippery task.
For more than 40 years now, I have been asking the following question without receiving a single coherent response: Where in the wording of The Second Amendment is there any provision for, or even a suggestion of, restrictions, limitations, or exceptions?
The correct answer: There is none.
Thus, there is a very strong argument to be made that, Court decisions notwithstanding, every one of the more than 24,000 gun control laws
currently in effect in this nation at the federal, state, and local levels is unconstitutional.
The Bruen Decision, if anything, did not go far enough.
Those who deny, or attempt to deny, United States citizens their Constitutional rights should be charged with sedition and prosecuted accordingly.
so the lefty gov WONT put mentally ill people into housing to keep the streets safe
but are in charge of who has a good moral character and/or needs to defend themselves against the leftys criminal brosnhos on the streets!
It’s easy: Vote D, go free; vote R, behind bars.
Avoid NYC like the plague it is.
Overall this is good, not great news. The 2nd Circuit gonna need to trad the writing on the wall here which IMO boils down to SCOTUS telling them ‘here is an example of where 2A rights may be pierced; an adversarial process undertaken by the Judiciary to determine whether the person is a danger. Step outside those confines and SCOTUS is likely gonna be forced to act. Neither the 2nd Circuit nor NY State anti gun bureaucracy is gonna like the end result if they keep acting in bad faith to deny fundamental liberties. Personally I suggest slapped them down, mandating them as ‘shall issue’ then requiring pre clearance permission from the CT before any new firearms related laws may take effect.
Yeah, that’s my take,too. “You wanna claim a process, have one, out in public. We have these court things for doing that…” This decision has Roberts fingerprints all over it.
The AdminiDrones like the two-fer of claiming a need, vs a right, with “balance” protected by a standard and a practice they decide, that you can’t review. That gets seasoned with some “process is the punishment” and they get a ban they can’t get straight up by encumbering what they don’t want you to do.
Just assume every protection vs. their agenda will be ditched.
(Doesn’t help that within a couple months of NY’s “mental health” “protection” scheme grabbing individuals’ guns “temporarily”, they had one violating literally every assurance about how it would be done. Bypassed the medical determination. Leaked to law enforcement without record or review. Showed up unannounced, demanding the arms immediately. Protocol for review and redress not defined. And, the guy couldn’t get his guns back when the whole thing was vacated. The process is the punishment.
This was in Buffalo, while Cuomo the Lesser was still Proconsul. Come to think of it, isn’t Hochel from Buffalo? Huh.)
“Can anything good come out of Buffalo?”
“Tribe use buffalo dung, make heap good cookfires.”
the courts are legislating b/c congress /gop has no need to stick their necks out when they can just retain power and let the courts do what they want and bite back when they feel safe to do so
“promote the general welfare” is to the lefty what
“a womens life in danger” is the catchall to insure that tax money IS USED ( the hyde amendment>>>the haha amendment) and/or the procedure can be executed …yeah pun intended
the right of gun ownership is and was obvious to protect the people from a overstepping government
WHY DO YOU THINK THE LEFTY WANTS YOUR WEAPONS SOOOO BADLY!!!
they know its true
why does the left in court case after court case DROP GUN CHARGES that are brought against criminals and from what I read mostly poc !!??
b/c they KNOW THE STATS AND THE CARNAGE THAT THEIR CRIMINALS WILL BRING TO THE STREETS IS WORTH the stats that will make gun ownership look bad>>worse to the public
United States v. Rahimi
a more interesting aspect of thattt case is that Rahimi was even out on the streets to commit ANY ACTS OF VIOLENCE
so it was the government that allowed that sackosh to be out disregarding his violence altogether
it almost *seems* like the government wants these cretins out on the streets to create issues ( innocent men women and children be damned) so THAT THEY CAN THEN GO AFTER THE GUN AS THE ISSUE
not the fact that they are allowing this violent animal to be out on the streets
why do we accept THAT FACT all so that the lefty narrative of
guns are dangerous
can reign supreme?
In May 2020, Rahimi was arrested after approaching her house in the middle of the night. In November 2020, he was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon after threatening another woman with a gun.
Between December 2020 and January 2021, Rahimi took part in five shootings. First, he shot at a man who purchased drugs from him after the man spoke disrespectfully to him; Rahimi fired into the man’s house with an AR-15. Second, the day after the prior shooting, Rahimi was involved in a traffic collision and fired at the other driver. Following this, he fled the scene of the crash, returned, fired more shots at the other driver, then fled again. Third, three days after the prior shooting, Rahimi fired a gun into the air while in the presence of children. Fourth, some weeks after the prior incident, a truck on the highway flashed its headlights at Rahimi when he sped past the truck; Rahimi then followed the truck off the highway and fired shots at another car that had been following the truck. Fifth, Rahimi fired a gun into the air at a fast food restaurant after a friend’s credit card was declined.
I commented at the time that using Rahimi as a basis for this case was extremely odd as he should not have been out of prison in the first place or allowed to have a firearm. “Moral character” had nothing to do with him as he was a repeat criminal with a history of violence and misuse of a firearm
thanks
It is Dem SOP: don’t enforce a law, let crime increase. Run on fixing the “problem” they created with more legislation. Don’t enforce that. Run on “we need more legislation, because the current laws are insufficient. Pass more laws, don’t enforce.
Lather, rinse, repeat until they get the onerous, unconstitutional laws they want,, THEN enforce them.
agree and the gop is complicit
that has got to stop
Every time I see a picture of Kathy Hochul it makes me retch. The only saving grace, here, is that it’s a still photo and I don’t have to listen to spew her insane gibberish.
I would say that she is the worst governor ever in the history of America except that there is still that despicable, lowlife slug, Phil Murphy, who’s got an even stupider look cemented onto his ugly face than Kathy Hochul. And they are both insane tyrants who should have been imprisoned, and forgotten about, years ago.
Walz, Pritzker, Whitmer… it’s such a target-rich environment.
Between Whitmer and Hochul, at least ONE plastic surgeon should lose his license.
hey
even dr frankenstein has to eat
Most of them have moved to gender butchery.
“Dr. Mengele, your next patient is here. No ma’am, the patient cannot bring her pacifier with her.”
^^^^^^^^^^^that^^^^^^^^^
Hochul, after Kamala, is the ultimate fail upward DEI hire.
Fathead Pritzker.
Well…
Common sense dictates that the Bill of Rights be interpreted in plain English, at face value.
While there is not a specific list of rights that are considered inalienable in the Constitution, there are some rights that are generally accepted as natural rights of man. The list is extensive, and the following are but a few:
To act in self-defense
To own private property
To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor
To move freely within the county or to another country
To worship Or Refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion
To be secure in one’s home
To think freely
No limitations on any of it.
Hate speech, Automatic weapons…
Nothing.
I remember when you could purchase dynamite at the hardware store.
Stamps were a nickel, and gas was 20 cents a gallon.
Gold was $25.00 an ounce….Pre-Nixon ” Temporary ” roll-back.
So far as our rights go…
Where is there an option to bypass due-process?
The Domestic Violence exception is supported by what?
Good intentions?
That is what the road to hell is built upon.
This must be corrected.
good post
but the welfare state must not be impeded
$35/oz.
Gold was $25/oz when FDR confiscated everyone’s gold and then hiked the price to $35/oz, effectively having stolen $10/oz from everyone he could get his grubby hands on. It stayed at $35/oz until Nixon closed the gold window, so the federal government could run deficits like nobody’s business and the Fed could print up dollars like they were going out of style.
Indeed. The quickest way to rein in gov’t spending with least disruption to normal folks is to require:
1. Each Nationally chartered bank branch to hold 2% of the demand deposits of that branch in silver, 1% in gold and 2% in cash.
2. Allow depositors to make withdrawals in gold or silver at the current spot price and with internet it ain’t opaque.
3. Allow anyone to go to any Fed Reserve Bank location and exchange their cash/wire transfer for gold or silver.
Suddenly we have a rate of exchange set by the market forces and when folks distrust the worth of fiat currency they can exchange for ‘pet rocks’ as the detractors of gold and silver describe them. The gov’t will have to immediately become far more frugal and far more efficient in executing its core functions to overcome Gresham’s Law b/c they won’t have the funds to do anything else. Frankly just the first two would probably be enough over time.
It is a good and credible idea.
Question for you, how do you feel about using other precious metals and gems as well?
As far as gold and silver, to do that there would have to be enough gold and silver in the right hands (mainly the Fed) or available for rapid purchase to allow for that 5% hold plus withdraws that would happen. I personally don’t believe that the U.S. Government actually has the metal to even start putting this into action.
I am not one of the “Fort Knox is empty!” people, but the Government would screw up a sack lunch and have it cause the taxpayers thousands in debt for a PBJ, so I don’t for a second believe they have maintained the precious metal stocks in any sensible way.
The Fed wouldn’t be necessary if the value of the dollar (#of dollars/ease of credit) was set by market forces against gold or silver instead of a board. Supposed to be something like 8,000+ tons of gold held by the US Gov’t. Lots of gold mines and silver mines out there though the easy to get sources are long gone.
Really all that would be needed and probably more feasible is just allow silver withdrawals from banks and require banks to keep a minimum amount on hand. If depositors go in and the bank says ‘tough luck we ran out’ that depositor could then just wire it to a bank that would make sure they had it on hand. I suspect after the first few ‘runs’ the rest of the banks would make sure to have silver on hand…..assuming they could get physical delivery, the banks could always offer a higher rate to their depositors to keep it in the bank if they couldn’t find silver and if it was high enough some would accept it instead.
It puts the depositors back in the driver seat of the banking system and the market forces back in charge of monetary policy, especially when local ‘runs’ take place. The fiscal constraints come from secondary effects of folks exchanging cash for silver removing $ from circulation and reducing the amount available to lend. Tough medicine with more than a few folks getting hurt as banks close if their management is non responsive to depositors. Loans become more expensive but govt spending falls as does inflation though deflation won’t be a picnic. Ultimately prices will stabilize.
Ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.
Sorry went right past your question. The problem with using multiple things is arbitrage between them. Gold and silver operating together (bimetalism) with fiat currency is bad enough as folks will shift out of whatever they view as the weaker and into what they perceive as the stronger store of value. Gresham’s Law is a reality. Adding in platinum or whatever other metal just adds to the problem. Gems would be Cray Cray IMO b/c no average person has the expertise to evaluate the gems for their true value.
“…b/c no average person has the expertise to evaluate the gems for their true value.”
You hit one of the qualities of a useful currency (distinct from the money it represents) — self-verifying. All the ad hoc currencies that pop up have this property, from cigarettes in prisons to graphics cards and chips.
Interesting how often currency “improvements” erode the properties of a useful currency: durable, collectable, divisible, portable, universal, anonymous, recognized and self-verifying.
Gems aren’t good for “money”. The monetary metals are elements/atoms – they cannot be (practically) created or destroyed. Molecules are not good for “money” because they can be created and destroyed by simple chemical means. Structured molecules, like gems, are even worse – most especially structured molecules that are not commodities.
Gems are very good for holding a lot of value in a small volume but they are not “money”. Even in that respect, however, they are being undermined by chemistry, as lab-grown diamonds are basically indistinguishable from natural diamonds, hence the supply is effectively unlimited … like fiat paper money.
Primordial,
Yes indeed. Gems can and have been used as a more easily transported/hidden store of value but their use as a currency in the wider population outside those with knowledge to ID/Assess them is just not practical.
What about rare earths and lithium? Use the left’s love of EVs against them.
I was based on Ft. Knox for 2 years in the mid-1970s. There were rumors even then about there being no gold in the depository building (which is actually on its own compound on the edge of Ft. Knox, the military base).
One day, a call went out for a small number of soldiers (from several units on post) to report for a detail at the depository building. Our troop provided two privates. When they returned, they told of a “make work” detail in which they were required to move pallets of gold around inside the depository (work probably normally done by depository employees).
At the time, I surmised this exercise was meant to get eyes on the gold, knowing that the soldiers in the detail would go back to their units and spread the story to their friends and families of their experience of a depository full of gold (as I am continuing to spread the story here). I imagined this exercise was meant to quell the rumors of “there’s no gold in Ft. Knox.”
Years later, it occurred to me – there is gold in the depository. The trick is it no longer belongs to us.
Repeal authority for fractional banking.
TBH I would far rather have Bankers using the deposits and fractional reserve banking, their expertise about who is a viable borrower and the potential for depositors to withdraw their funds if they view the bank as making risky loans or other mismanagement. Add in basic regulations and it would be fine over the long haul with some periods where things got choppy.
That system is much preferable to a Cent bank setting monetary policy via increasing and decreasing available money supply, especially when we tie it to a pseudo silver standard. Doing that gets market forces directly in control v special/vested interests and severely curtail regulatory capture. If banks can’t lend more than they have in deposits (fractional reserve) the financial system crashes.
The court needs to recognize the malice towards basic human rights from the NEw York legislature and declare they cannot require a permission slip to exercise the right to keep and bear arms, and that any legislation passed which comes close to the question of arms is presumptively unconstitutional untile proven otherwise.
My question is even if someone is of “poor” moral character, do they have any less right to defend themselves as anyone else?
Also, what is the definition of Good Moral Character? In my view if you support abortion then you are of poor moral character, but I wouldn’t begrudge you the right to defend yourself.
Conversely what is the definition of “poor” or “bad” moral Character? Of course we know that what the progressives will define it as anyone who disagrees with their beliefs, but the question still stands.
Also how do you apply this equally? Each reviewer is going to have their own beliefs, so what if one of them thinks that (Insert adjective of choice) shouldn’t have guns? That could go on for years before it is noticed and challenged and most likely it would take another SCOTUS review to change anything.
I just have to keep reminding myself that you can’t fix stupid.
yeah but you know the answer
the lefty will say maga is of low moral character as they have said that all along
they run the world until we say and do otherwise
If it weren’t for the immunity legislators and governors have for their “official acts,” attempts to effectively nullify SCOTUS decisions would be straight up contempt of court. They’ve been told what they can and can’t do, and go right ahead and do what they’ve been told they can’t. A citizen would never get away with such behavior.
I know someone with dementia that has access to nuclear weapons. Should I file a Red Flag report?
And F-16’s!!! Never forget Biden’s F-16’s.
“When an individual has been found by a court to pose a credible threat to the physical safety of another,” the Court held, “that individual may be temporarily disarmed consistent with the Second Amendment.”
A close relative, who is an attorney in the Boston area, tells me that judges always approve restraining orders, the only “evidence” being that the woman says “I feel afraid”.
And no judge will lift the restraining order until the woman volunteers “I no longer feel afraid”.
So it’s not a matter of finding a “credible threat” and it’s not being “temporarily disarmed”.
But it does pander to women, which is all that matters.
SCOTUS were morons if they think “credible” and “temporary” aren’t loopholes wide enough to drive a galaxy through. Recall that family courts find all allegations of threat credible, so long as it’s a woman alleging a man is threatening her, and a 20-year ban if you get an ex-parte restraining order against you is technically temporary.