Trump Found Liable for $350 Million, Barred From Operating Businesses in NY for 3 Years
And yet, there were no victims and the banks were on Trump’s side along with anyone who has dealt with real estate.
Someone remind Judge Arthur Engoron and New York Attorney General Letitia James that former President Donald Trump already left them years ago when he moved to Florida.
Engoron found Trump liable for $350 million and barred him from conducting business for three years:
Former President Donald Trump was barred from operating his business in New York for three years and was found liable for more than $350 million in damages in the civil fraud case brought against him, his family and the Trump Organization by New York Attorney General Letitia James.
New York Judge Arthur Engoron handed down his ruling Friday after a months-long trial beginning in October and stemming from James’ lawsuit alleging the former president inflated his asseta and committed fraud.
Engoron also barred Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or legal entity in New York for two years.
Trump’s spokesperson said that they never had an option for a jury trial.
“It is unfortunate that a jury won’t be able to hear how absurd the merits of this case are and conclude no wrongdoing ever happened,” the spokesperson added.
The spokesperson is not wrong. The judge, who would have treated it like a soap opera but got called out on the first day, already decided Trump was guilty.
A jury might have decided differently but who knows:
Throughout the trial, Trump attorneys brought witnesses, including former Deutsche Bank top executives, who testified the banks sought additional business from Trump, who they viewed as a “whale of a client.”
Trump’s defense also brought in expert witnesses, including New York University accounting professor Eli Bartov, who reviewed the Trump financial statements at issue in the case and said he found no evidence of accounting fraud.
Bartov testified last month that Trump’s financial statements did not violate accounting principles, and he suggested that anything problematic — like a huge year-to-year leap in the estimated value of his Trump Tower penthouse — was simply an error.
“My main finding is that there is no evidence whatsoever of any accounting fraud,” Bartov testified. Trump’s financial statements, he said, “were not materially misstated.”
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Comments
I hope Alina did a good job perfecting the record so an appellate court can straighten this out.
Engoron is as sly as he is corrupt,..he prevented Habba from entering a lot of evidence so it is not on the record for an appeal
The denial of evidence proffered is part of the record, but geographically as to where appeals start, it may have a long way to go to get fixed,perhaps SCOTUS
How does it get to SCOTUS, or to any federal court? What’s the federal issue? It seems to me that this now goes to the Appellate Division, and then the final stop on this train is the NY Court of Appeals.
Nothing here some 3D printed guillotines can’t straighten out….
A good swingable sword is equally effective and graces your hand with a satisfying feel.
Allina didn’t even know the basics of how to be a lawyer. She was grandstanding and useless
So insane
So insane
Same in the membrane
We are done as a Nation
We have no laws
The Eighth Amendment’s Excessive Fines Clause is an incorporated protection applicable to the states under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause
On certain parts of the 14th “apply” to Trump. …and all negatively per the Left.
So it is, as of five years ago. So there’s an issue that could go to federal court. But that would not touch the conviction. The only question would be whether, assuming him to be guilty, the fine was excessive.
Sixth Amendment. This prosecution was criminal if ever one was.
(yeah, yeah, I know… that’s not what was meant by “criminal prosecution”.
looks like the tree of liberty is going to get plenty of watering pretty soon
I am sure you are ri… Oh! Look! Football!
Did you say, “football”? I thought I heard the black national anthem playing.
Foosball is the devil, Bobby! 🙂
My Mama says alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush.
Nowhere near as ornery as the crocogators.
Why not? It’s a black – excuse me, Black – majority game now.
>>Former President Donald Trump was barred from operating his business in New York for three years . . .
>>Engoron also barred Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or legal entity in New York for two years.
Can’t see what the real problem is here. Trump just turns his New York business holdings over to a third-party or person who wasn’t barred and banned for the three-year duration to operate and then reclaims the businesses when three-years and one-day elapses and the ban is no longer in effect.
And, add one more step. Move the corporate charters to another state at three years and two days.
Musk just moved SpaceX from Maryland to Texas.
I believe Tesla was moved from California to Texas as well.
Delaware to TX
We’re well beyond insanity and have arrived someplace entirely different, perhaps novel. Obviously, we’ve crossed the Rubicon a while ago. They’re just salting the earth now.
Can someone please explain what articulable damage this $350M is based upon considering there are ZERO complaining witnesses in the case? How exactly did this moronic judge arrive at that number?
This is what the “judge” said about that:
That’s some Beria level BS.
What did this “wrongdoer” gain? The temporary use of money that he literally had to pay for? That doesn’t seem like “gain” to me.
Better terms or Indeed an actual loan at all. People on this site seem to forget that interest rates are set by the lender based on the risk of the loan. Reducing the risk of the loan equates to better terms.
And the lender assesses that risk independently. Lenders are not in the habit of assuming the client’s figures are accurate. In this case the lender’s agents testified that it was eager to lend to him and actively pursued his business. So any claim that without the questioned claims he might not have got the loan must be a deliberate lie.
@Milhouse
Err no, they may assess the information provided by the prospective lendee independently but not the data provided. You clearly have no idea how lenders make decisions.
The testimonials only made the point that they wanted to lend not that the information wasn’t fraudulent or that it would have changed the terms of the lending decision. In other words totally irrelevant. please do continue with your non-sequiturs
It should be impossible for someone to be so wrong about so many things so often, but here you are. Milhouse is correct. You are, as has been the case in every comment you have ever posted, incorrect. You are insufferably ill informed and/or biased-possible unaware, but I doubt it.
There was a Simpsons episode where Homer got put in the funny farm for wearing a pink shirt, after it got mixed in with colored items in the washer
Reminds me of Engoron and his ridiculous attire
The only Damage was stop
President Trump and our constitutional rights
The only damage was to President Trump
Phone
Many years ago, a friend of mine was disputing a parking ticket in court. He put the meter maid on the stand, and asked, “Who is the injured party in this dispute?”
The meter maid responded, “You are.”
“Can someone please explain what articulable damage this $350M is based upon considering there are ZERO complaining witnesses in the case?”
More curiously, exactly who gets those $350M “damages?”
The state?
Wow, wotta racket. 😳
It’s just a VERY large version of what
highwaymenstate police do every day with “civil asset forfeiture” cash confiscations.No, a Manhattan jury would NOT have decided it differently.
In democrat strongholds, a person is guilty/will be found liable/punished just for not being a libtard.
Maybe.
But the very fact that they weren’t even willing to risk a jury demonstrates what insane BS this crap was.
In general you are correct but once in awhile we get a pleasant surprise (remember in Philadelphia the corrupt DOF attempt at putting a parent in prison for decades for defending his son while they protested an abortion clinic?).
Nice going, New York: Seems to me you’ve just made an excellent case for any business in its right mind to get the h*ll out of the state or forget about doing business there in any way, shape, or form. If a billionaire like Trump can be persecuted with charges made out of whole cloth, New York can do it to ANYBODY.
I have been waiting for some time for the parade of high profile company exits from NY City to commence. With today’s modern communications, there is no reason that any large bank or insurance company has to be located in NY City. If this starts happening, the state and city will lose a lot more than that $350 million in tax revenue each and every year.
And not just the city. Remington just fled NY state after 200 years.
I forget who it was that said socialism in the theory that everybody can get rich by putting their hands in each others’ pockets. NY is about to see what that’s like.
Heyyyyyyyy Abbott! Send more buses!
I am reminded of youtuber Louis Rossman and his stories of how New York city for years after he left pursued him for money they say he owed. He’s got videos placed in a couple of playlists if you wish to view them.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2lvzWirQsz6haGEjJ2b2e6Ho
and
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2ls-WXrvFtAxoJ_VZIMSG9Z3
Point being: if they leave or try to leave they better expect the city and state to pursue them for a long time afterward for everything they can get.
And, these businesses can tell the New York tx people to perform an anatomically difficult of not impossible act on themselves.
Icahn Capital and Elliot Management are among the Wall Street companies that have left. Over 150 of them taking nearly $1 Trillion in assets.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/21/new-york-loses-1-trillion-in-wall-street-business-as-firms-flee-report/
Indeed. Just ask Louis Rossman about that.
Mate, Trump clearly committed fraud. That’s not whole cloth. Do better
Whom did he defraud? Fraud requires that the victim relied on the accused’s false statement to his detriment. Deutschebank said it didn’t.
Actually no, Deutschebank testified that it believed the financial documents were estimates as opposed to fraudulent. “I think we expect clients-provided information to be accurate. At the same time, it’s not an industry standard that these statements be audited. They’re largely reliant on the use of estimates,” Williams said, so bankers routinely “make some adjustments.”
Another ‘pro’ Trump witness from the bank testified that they hadn’t even read the annual financial reports. That’s hardly indicative of doing there own due diligence. Further from a legal point of view false accounting is still false accounting, its an irrelevance with respect to actually breaching the statute.
In other words your argument is factually and legally incorrect.
Hey mate, it’s interesting that you have a background from a criminal colony, because only a criminal mindset could believe that persecution based upon your own emotional instability when it comes to people like Trump, is a solid basis for punishing them.
Excuse me, mate, but I won’t take Our US legal system and subject it to a former criminal colony whose people couldn’t even get up the gumption to throw off the British crown even till this day. It’s no wonder you don’t understand what liberty is about.
Ahhh yes ad hominem instead of an actual argument. Facts seem to hurt your feelings a lot. Its deeply entertaining when a MAGA has a temper tantrum and attempts to say other people are emotionally unstable.
It’s the US legal system that’s grinding Trump down, this court case found him liable and rightly so. Making excuses for blatant fraud isn’t a good look buddy.
Is there a link to this judge’s decision?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/f203be39-020c-4f82-a423-96aa20c08e3a.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_3
when NYC needs a helping hand
bite it
bite it hard
Who gets the $350 million
Great question, during trial Tishy’s side made the comment that Deutsche Bank lost millions in interest from Trump’s fraud,..I doubt that any of Trump’s money will go to make Deutsche whole again
BS
You beat me to it. What is the path for Trump to be made whole?
On the flip side, what can Trump do to accelerate NY’s decline.? They need help swirling to the end of the flush.
not BS! Tishy claims that since Trump overvalued he got lower interest and if Trump paid the rate she thinks he should have the bank would have made more money
So they’re saying he overvalued and got a lower interest rate?
How is that functionally and significantly different from undervaluing and paying a higher interest rate?
Example: Which is more: 5% of $8 million, or 8% of $5 million? (Answer: Neither. They are the same, $400k.)
If anything, overvaluing just unnecessarily increases Trump’s property tax liability. What does the city and state of New York owe him in overpayment?
Ssssshh! That’s math, which the peasants aren’t allowed to know exists!
Archer, taxes are not based on a person’s own evaluation! Tax assessments are their own thing, and are not directly related to anything in the real world. The state decides how much you owe and your pay it.
In principle, yes, overvaluing might have got him a lower interest rate. Except that the bank does its own valuation, and bases the interest rate on that.
The problem is that all of the banks were satisfied with the outcome. Every penny borrowed was repaid with interest and the loan contracts were completely satisfied on schedule. They said they’d very much like to do business with him again because he’s a whale client. There is no victim here
Strange that the Deutsche Bank people that were on the stand forgot to mention this.
The Democrat Party by hook or crook. One of the jurors in the Mark Steyn case passed a note to the judge that he disliked Fox News and had just found out Steyn had worked there. Nothing came of that revelation. Oh.. the horror,.. if the juror had found out Steyn was THE go to guy for Rush Limbaugh as fill in…. Steyn could have been fined a $1 billion bucks!
Michael Savage called this a mental illness…. well… yes and evil to boot. The Anit-Trumpsters are in rapture that is the same as for those that were joyful with 9/11. This gleeful abuse of people…thinking also of J6’s…. leaves no room for any reconciliation.
Egg Head and the prosecutor will pocket 10%.
Wait, that goes to Biden.
The Big Guy needs his cut.
Mate you need a better story. Your endless excuses for fraud are immensely silly.
Hey mate, don’t you need to occupy yourself with bowing down to King Charles and fretting over his prostate?
Your defence of fraud is deflecting to another nations monarchy. Fascinating have you ever considered an education 😉
Well, I don’t know if Trump will be able to appeal or negotiate a deal on the settlement, but if he needs cash to pay the $350 million in damages, he should ask his new friend Fani.
You know she’s the only one
Who sent me here with these cigars for everyone… 🙂
Ha ha. Fani says the IRS gets suspicious if you have more than $99 million cash on hand.
Fani has lots of walk-around cash in her cash whore…
“My WHAT?!?!????!!??!
“Hoard.”
Wokeness is all about pretending.
It’s an important part of wokeness to pretend not to notice when affirmative action hires do something idiotic, above all in the court system.
More like doing idiotic things throughout all facets of our society.
I will not comment on Trump one way or the other except as an American due his right to a fair trial. This is bullshit. Engeron should be removed from the bench for this nonsense.
Indeed. If it’s true that a jury trial was not an option — even if Team Trump requested it — that’s a violation of his Constitutional rights. ($350 million decidedly clears the 6th Amendment’s “exceeds twenty dollars” lower limit, even with “Bidenomic” inflation.)
No, it isn’t. The 7th amendment (not the 6th) is not incorporated.
Mark Pomerantz in his book “The People vs. Donald Trump: An Inside Account”, he outlines an argument that Trump’s submitted sub-market values are fraudulent reporting to the Tax Assessor. But then the geniuses and the NYC legal office went and asked the Tax Assessor if they relied on any submission from Trump. The answer was no, that the Tax Assessor relies on their own independent assessment. And so this angle was dropped.
They then looked at the information to get loans. Trump now provides a generous assessment of his properties back up his loans. Pomerantz, however, did not go to Deutches Bank to see if they relied on this information or did their own due diligence. For the type of money involved in the loans, I can not imagine any bank not performing their own independent property assessment.
Our next step is to seek out every left wing Democrat controlled company and use the same lawfare against every damn one of them.
If Red States fail to release the whirlwind against the left, they have failed the American people.
Seek out every judge, every prosecutor, every defense attorney, every politician, and every journalist that supports the left and ruin their lives.
Every sexual activity, every affair, every peccadillo needs to be exposed.
Disney is in the cross hairs right, the entire Reedy Creek Special District and now the EOC suits lead by Gina Carano and their DIE policies and requirements
This! ^1,000,000
Hell, the bank sent out an appraiser for a couple of houses I bought which were far less than $350 Million I can assure you. Heck, when I got home insurance Allstate sent out their own appraiser.
My understanding is that all of Trumps statements of value included ” All property should be independently appraised for value” or something to that effect.
To put this travesty in perspective, this week it was reported that Trump’s holding in Truth Social was valued at about $4 billion. Next, this ridiculous decision may have just got him a million votes. Finally, I told my wife that when she now sees her name as an asset on our balance sheet for $4.5 million it is because she is worth her weight in gold.
Their made up law case will never be used again, it was against Trump and only Trump.
United States v. Bajakajian, 524 U.S. 321, 334 (1998).
So who did Bajakajian piss off?
Isn’t there a provision in the US Constitution about unreasonable fines and/or asset seizures? Wouldn’t a victimless crime would be Exhibit A for such a provision?
Another judge and prosecutor collecting grift to line their pockets.
Egg Head judge will get his day in court, and I hope followed by execution.
In this case I thing execution is too extreme, total asset forfeiture, prison time, followed by homelessness would be reasonable.
It was a NY jury. No actual evidence was required. The jury would have reached the same result if they deliberated directly following indictment. C’mon man!
This is not a high point for the NY judiciary.
Actually it was a bench trial, no jury. The court claimed Trumps lawyers failed to check a box on a form requesting a jury trial and thus they denied him that. Probably another grounds for appeal since waiving the right to a jury trial should require more than the absence of a checked off box.
TY… The bench trial thing confused me.. I thought it was the defendant’s decision..
So the state of New York and NYC have to resort to a bunch of legal gimmicks in an attempt to break Trump. The entire Carroll case was a farce based upon a law change targeted directly at him. Then add in a corrupt judge Kaplan who bought the multiple lies and mis-statements by Carroll.
Then you have this case with no victims and no jury and a judge who has no comprehension about how properties are valued and makes concludes that Mar A Lago, not in New York state was improperly valued.
It will take years for these two cases to wind through a legitimate appeals process. Both cases have some very basic constitutional issues to resolve.
Then you have a selective prosecution situation and presidential immunity issues, declassification power and timing in the documents case.
The only people who are making out in all of the cases are the lawyers and their staffs. Just ask Wade in Atlanta about living the high life off the taxpayer.
This isn’t and never was about fraud. It’s about bankrupting Trump by any means necessary, and generating news that can be used against him in the election.
As if we needed more proof that we are now in a Banana Republic
$350M will buy a lot of cash vacations for the DA.
You are correct. Every time I read one of your comments, that is the first thing I think….
That’s a compliment given the quality of your comments wendy
And the fucking corrupt cowards use a Friday to announce this. This is it, it’s not about Trump, it’s about turning into a dictatorship. The Mark Steyn verdict wiped out free speech and they’re going for everything now. We’re way past grumbling acceptance, we’re at the last extremity.
Governor DeSantis and Governor Abbott just got a gift from New York. Relocate to Florida or Taxes, your financial situation will improve and we’re not a Banana Republic. This case has to enter into any decision to either stay in New York, or to go there in the first place.
I wonder if the NY Times or the Wall Street Journal would accept full-page ads from either Florida or “Taxes”?
(Love that slip of the fingers-on-keyboard.
Broad brush much.. Mary’s articles are well written and helpful (to me).. Same with the some of the comments… Sometimes people with real life experience share some insight.. and that is worth its weight in gold.
Its the lender’s responsiblity to perform their own due diligence on the value of the asset. Lenders hire their own independent appraisers. They inspect the building, they audit the leases for rental income, they use surrounding neighborhood values etc. The lender didn’t claim they were victims of deception by DJT or anybody in his business. Its not obvious how this even made it to trial. If the ruling stands, it has devasting implication for NY real estate market. Any property owner at any time could be found guilty by one judge out of spite who has no real expeience in real estate outside of owning or renting their own personal home.
The only companies doing business in NYC now are the corrupt ones, like Fani’s Lawyering and Luxury Travel, LLC
Stalin and Beria are smiling.
Why not one hundred billion trillion times infinity?
I’m old enough to remember when entirely political show trials like this only occurred in Communist Dictatorships and Third World Banana Republics.
Our Courts are a pathetic joke.
Trump’s penalty could cause NY biz exodus to FL, as New York State becomes ‘legal banana republic’: experts
Of course, the locusts never think anything through.
Governor Abbott should offer a great deal to all the NY businesses that make the exodus as a result of this travesty.