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Trump: Big Tech 2020 Election Interference “allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution”

Trump: Big Tech 2020 Election Interference “allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution”

“Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION?”

Former president Trump is back in the headlines, and once again, it’s for saying something outrageous and, to some (including me), unconscionable.

This time Trump asks whether there should be a new election in light of the disclosures of the ‘Twitter Files’ or whether we should just toss the last election and declare him the winner retroactively.

Trump acknowledges that both of his options are unconstitutional, but he claims that the fraud is so great that it warrants tossing out that dusty old document to right a wrong.

Here’s Trump’s Truth Social post (via Powerline):

The Daily Wire reports:

Former President Donald Trump reacted to the release of “The Twitter Files” on Saturday by saying, “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”

Twitter CEO Elon Musk released internal company documents through journalist Matt Taibbi about the company’s censorship of the Hunter Biden laptop story during the 2020 presidential election that showed that top officials at the company were in regular contact with Democrats and censored content that Democrats wanted removed.

. . . . Trump responded to the release of the files in a series of messages on Truth Social, writing late Friday night: “Wow! That’s a really big story about Twitter and various forms of government Fraud including, specifically, Election Fraud.”

“The same level of Fraud took place with the other Big Tech companies, if not even worse (if that’s possible?),” he continued. “We are living in a VERY CORRUPT COUNTRY &, AS THEY ARE SAYING ALL OVER THE INTERNET, ‘NOTHING WILL BE DONE ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT & FBI ARE TOTALLY CORRUPT.’ But they’ll keep investigating ‘boxes’ that were legally & openly taken from the W.H.”

Trump again commented on the matter Saturday morning, writing: “So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION?”

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Trump declared. “Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

Trump has, on occasion, expressed his view that he should be somehow exempt from the Constitution. One of the most memorable was his infamous—made while a sitting president and under oath—statement that the state “Take the guns first, go through due process second.” This is the exact opposite of the meaning of due process, of course, so this statement generated a lot of backlash among even his conservative supporters.

Therefore, it’s relatively unsurprising that Trump would think it’s okay to just toss the Constitution of these United States to achieve his aims.

Needless to say, people have thoughts.

I don’t know why I have to say this, but the 2020 election is not going to be “thrown out,” and there will be no new election. As Trump himself acknowledges, there is no Constitutional recourse for him to get a “do over” on 2020.

There is, however, a presidential election coming up in 2024, and it’s not at all clear to me that Trump has any plan to win it.

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From No Agenda

Hakeem Jeffries ©
@RepJeffries

The more we learn about 2016 election
the more ILLEGITIMATE it becomes. America deserves to know whether we have a FAKE President in the Oval
Office #RussianInterference

2:26 PM • 2/16/18 • Twitter Web Client Hakeem Jeffries
@Repleffries
@DefiantLs

We will never bend the knee to the election deniers who poison our
democracy.
7:00 AM • 10/14/22 • TweetDeck

    MattMusson in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 11:00 am

    The Constitutional remedy would be to impeach the President and VP and choose replacements in the Congress.

      rwingjr in reply to MattMusson. | December 6, 2022 at 1:50 am

      Only if you can prove they were complicit and I don’t believe that could be done. In fact, I don’t think Biden is capable of being complicit.

Well, that’s a stretch too far, DJT. It does invalidate the results

No we don’t want to throw out the constitution but I think he’s saying he had the #1 job in the world stolen from him and none of our so called leaders give a sh!t because they are all in on it….

And having a dinner with a person who is so troubled and you want to help him… that’s not a crime

It should
Be commended

Having a democrat congressman and women daily call for the end of Israel amd blame Jews for all the worlds wrong

Still get on vogue cover and loved by the media.

I’m calling BS but I knew fuzzy couldn’t wait to post this. You must be feeling some tingles down your leg…

    scooterjay in reply to gonzotx. | December 4, 2022 at 8:19 pm

    Admiring the crease in her own skirt

    healthguyfsu in reply to gonzotx. | December 4, 2022 at 9:44 pm

    Give it a rest already…you are desperately wrenching out total crap now.

    You think you are the Mary Magdalene to Trump Jesus or something. It’s sickening.

    The Gentle Grizzly in reply to gonzotx. | December 4, 2022 at 10:42 pm

    Good heavens, woman. Take a pill.

    Concise in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 8:04 am

    This post is just more ridiculous never trump inanity that can’t distinguish between a hypothetical comment highlighting the systemic inability of our system to counter democrat electoral fraud/manipulation and real life unconstitutional conduct, Hint. google student loan forgiveness for an example of a sitting president (maybe current occupant of the presidency is better?) engaging in unconstitutional behavior. .

      Milhouse in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 9:55 am

      The correct term is sitting president. That is who he is. That he shouldn’t be is irrelevant.

      And there’s nothing unconstitutional about the loan forgiveness, so long as it’s authorized by statute; so that’s what the argument is about. The administration claims to have found a clause in a statute that authorizes it to do this, while the plaintiffs claim the clause can’t be stretched that far. Both sides have plausible claims, which is why the courts have agreed to hear and consider it.

      Trump is not doing that at all. He has no constitutional argument, and isn’t even trying to make one. He’s simply calling for the constitution to be torn up and thrown in the garbage. He acknowledges that there is no constitutional way to restore him to the presidency, so he calls for it to be done without the constitution. How exactly he imagines this could be done, and by whom, is utterly unclear.

        Concise in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 10:28 am

        Uh, the point is there is no such statute sport, but we need not limit ourselves to that example, plenty more where that came from. And that he is occupying the white house (I take it you understand sarcasm? but I sometimes forget, wit is wasted on fools) is entirely relevant to my critic of this ridiculous hit piece. Is this a hypothetical? Yeah, yeah it is. He’s begins with an open question, the rest is premised on this. Sorry if that triggers you and the rest of the mindless Never Trumpers, well no, I’m actually not sorry.

          SuddenlyHappyToBeHere in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 11:31 am

          OK, referring to Milhouse as “sport” only discloses the paucity of reason behind your post. Same with “fools” reference. You reveal your own immaturity.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 11:48 am

          The statute is the exact one the Trump administration used to pause loans in 2020.
          https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/1098bb

          Can you find the word “pause” or “suspend” in that statute?
          I can’t.
          Can you find “forgive” or “discharge” or “cancellation” in that statute?
          I can’t.

          That statute gives the Secretary of Education the ability to ““waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs.”

          Yes, Milhouse is entirely correct that both sides have plausible claims. Until our laws are written in clear, restrictive, plain English, this is the crap we are served.

          Concise in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 1:23 pm

          It looks like Trump derangement syndrome has done some severe mental damage here. No need to obsesses over defending Brandon’s student loan overreach, there’s plenty of other unconstitutional conduct for you to champion.

          Milhouse in reply to Concise. | December 6, 2022 at 1:43 am

          What the actual **** are you talking about? All you have done is expose your ignorance of the topic. There certainly is a statute. The only question is how to interpret it. The courts will consider that question in due course. But the administration is entitled to take its view; doing so does not violate the constitution.

        M Poppins in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 6:34 pm

        vesicate means to form blisters

    artichoke in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 9:23 am

    He threw his J6 supporters under the bus. Thefts affecting him, including this one, are not my concern.

    We learned not to fall for his incitements.

      Concise in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 10:33 am

      He pledges to pardon them if he wins office again, considering he kept all his campaign promises, that not abandoning anybody, save it for your weekly Never Trumper meetings.

        considering he kept all his campaign promises
        No, he did not. I give him credit for trying, but he did not accomplish several.

          AntiPostmodernist in reply to GWB. | December 5, 2022 at 8:09 pm

          GWB, with those initials, it’s difficult for me to ever upvote you. Too many garbage policies from 43.

        CommoChief in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 12:49 pm

        The central campaign promise of 2016 was construction of a border wall along the southern border with Mexico. We didn’t get that promise fulfilled by any stretch of the imagination.

          Concise in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 1:25 pm

          He committed to building a wall and, despite incredible opposition, completed much of it, but by all means continuing attacking the only president in modern history to take serious steps to secure the border, although I guess I shouldn’t assume you even want a secure border given the comments here lately.

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 2:35 pm

          Concise,

          DJT promised we would get a border wall along the southern border. We don’t have it. He could have used his veto to force Congress. He didn’t. Those are facts. Sucks but there it is.

          Attacking those of us who point out these facts among others, isn’t going to help you sell Trump as a candidate for the r nomination. If you want Trump to get the r nomination then try and sell us instead of attacking us. Flies, honey and vinegar.

          Concise in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 3:49 pm

          That wasn’t an attack. It was a response. Try and calm down. Oh, and I couldn’t care less who you support. That wasn’t an attack either. More like semi-disinterested contempt for your views.

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 4:30 pm

          Concise,

          Cool beans man. We still don’t have a completed border wall and no amount of finger pointing will shift the blame from DJT who did not fulfill that promise.

          wendybar in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 4:47 pm

          Who’s fault is that?? The Republicans in Congress were too busy setting him up with their buddies on the left because he was exposing the corruption that YOU keep voting for.

          AntiPostmodernist in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 8:15 pm

          The entire time he was
          In office he was attacked by both the right and left for not wanting to enter a new war. That’s what it all comes down to with the uniparty. If DeSantis makes it to the next round he’ll be attacked just like Trump unless he’s compromised. Does anyone think DeSantis will get a free ride?

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 8:25 pm

          Wendy,

          1. DJT promised a wall along the length of our southern border with Mexico.
          2. He didn’t deliver on that promise.
          3. Ryan and McConnell didn’t then and don’t now want a border wall nor do the d/prog.
          4. When they presented DJT with a budget that didn’t have funding and authorization for the promised border wall DJT could have vetoed that bill.
          5. DJT decided not to use his veto power to send Ryan and McConnell back to the drawing board to figure out how to find the money.

          Trump not only didn’t deliver on his central campaign promise but he didn’t do everything possible in his power to fulfill that promise. You can make all the excuses you want for why DJT failed to deliver but you can’t say he fulfilled all his promises as Concise tries to pretend. Unless you area liar.

          I voted for DJT 2x is that the corruption you allege I vote for? Perhaps your baseless allegation is just the reflexive projection of the irresponsibly weak minded who refuse to take accountability for their failures.

        Milhouse in reply to Concise. | December 6, 2022 at 1:48 am

        He promised to “lock her up”. He never had the slightest intention of fulfilling that promise. It was a deliberate lie from the beginning. Just like all the deliberate lies he told during the primary campaign.

Nice audition for the Daily Kos. Let’s start with the scary off angle, slightly out of focus, black and white picture, and, apropos, well of nothing really, a comment in a back and forth meeting addressing the potential reach of gun control in light of an exigent circumstances context. (And, incidentally, kind of odd because dictators don’t usually engage in round table discussions, they don’t discuss, they order) I guess I should be grateful the Charlottesville hoax wasn’t regurgitated here.

It’s a sad testament to the human condition that a man is known by how he embraces the cross we’ve hanged him from …

    jb4 in reply to MrE. | December 4, 2022 at 9:45 pm

    Interestingly put. I would have said, “…..that a man is known by how he embraces the cross he has arranged to be hanged from”. As Abramson noted, a major failure was poor vetting. That includes poor appointments and failure to drain the Swamp. Just in DOJ … Sessions, Rosenstein, Barr and Wray – without whom we would have had no Mueller investigation and Biden would have been disclosed as “the Big Guy” when the FBI got the laptop nearly a year before the election. Biden might not even have been the candidate. Listening to Fauci et al and locking the country down was a disastrous decision both in fact – especially for children – and for leading to mail-in balloting. Then Trump’s 2020 campaign – and Republicans until today – did not adapt at all to the mail-in balloting rules his lockdown helped generate. Trump in many respects beat himself, very tough for his personality to accept.

    IMO Trump’s failure to accept any responsibility for his 2020 loss and subsequent bizarre behavior may end up with the Republicans increasingly asking themselves if they want to be among the last million supporters to jump ship for a candidate who can win, or just go down with the ship in 2024. I told others after the 2016 election that Trump would not win again if he did not become more “Presidential”. He is becoming less so by the day and I see no change in his prospects.

      gonzotx in reply to jb4. | December 4, 2022 at 10:06 pm

      He didn’t lose
      He didn’t lose
      He didn’t lose

        iconotastic in reply to gonzotx. | December 4, 2022 at 11:46 pm

        That is no longer the point

        Evil Otto in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 5:26 am

        Repeating a line doesn’t make it true. Yes, he did lose. They cheated, but he still lost. He is not currently president.

        Otto Kringelein in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 8:22 am

        He lost.
        He lost.
        He lost.

        And now he needs to shut the eff up and stop spouting such nonsense.

        But of course, an ego maniac like Trump will never do such a thing.

        artichoke in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 9:27 am

        It is no longer the point. To clarify, that was obvious on J6. He threw his supporters on J6 under the bus, and so his voice on what to do about the problems in our country is not reliable. He’s not a trustworthy leader. I tune him out, while acknowledging that election was certainly stolen and the system is certainly full of rot up to the very top.

      They were after him even before the inauguration – but yes – he’s inflicted more than a few wounds upon himself. I’ve done some counseling and observe with some victims they eventually abuse themselves. I don’t think this is that – but – the thing about crosses is this – whether deserved or not, inflicted by self or others, there’s no way down from it – they bring victims to the end of themselves. Does a person accept the inevitability of it and go out with dignity, or go loudly protesting all the way? “Father, forgive them – they don’t know what they do” or the Braveheart response “FREEDOM!” I wouldn’t want to be in Trump’s place – my heart just goes out to the guy. A lot of people have had a hand in his demise …

        artichoke in reply to MrE. | December 5, 2022 at 9:28 am

        He’s also inflicted wounds on his closest supporters. Therefore I stand back now and basically ignore him.

I think Trump is not saying that the Constitution should be thrown out, but with elections not run properly will destroy the country. Also that this is affecting people, laws, as elites and politicians get rich.

    iconotastic in reply to JG. | December 4, 2022 at 8:52 pm

    If Trump was not saying that then he should have said what he means. All I can do is take him at his word; my mind reading capabilities are poor.

    And Trump still does a poor job of hiring. Why would another Trump term not bring another set of cabinet disasters?

      Concise in reply to iconotastic. | December 5, 2022 at 7:56 am

      But that’s exactly what you and this ill-conceived hit piece are doing. President Trump is merely posing a hypothetical that highlights the fact that our system is apparently helpless in light of the massive democrat electoral fraud and manipulation corrupting our national electoral process. Brandon is actually shredding the constitution. This is not that thing.

        artichoke in reply to Concise. | December 5, 2022 at 9:30 am

        Not giving Trump the benefit of the doubt anymore. There are other choices who haven’t betrayed trust as he has. Besides he’s too old and losing it mentally.

          Concise in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 10:30 am

          He kept every promise he made as a candidate, funny way to betray trust, and, let’s be honest, you were never a supporter to begin with, so who cares what you think..

          wendybar in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 4:50 pm

          Continue losing then. Mitch is selling you out as we speak. Enjoy the downfall that you voted for.

      M Poppins in reply to iconotastic. | December 5, 2022 at 6:39 pm

      The constitution has been shelved since Brandon was installed .
      -If it wasn’t already with the NSA spying or the Russia Hoax; the people most outraged are the biggest hypocrites. Some are part of the great pissing contest on this ancient parchment. There are people held and tortured in prison for their politics and without even charges ( using covid to suspend their rights) .

      -In foreign countries we call them, political prisoners!

      Reporters, lawyers, protesters, and even members of Congress were raided by jack boot Swat FBI thugs for asking questions about an election decided at 4AM behind closed doors after polls and counting centers
      ” closed”. An information ministry was set up by the regime with a documented foreign agent at its helm. Orwell called that The Ministry of Truth. And why would it not be when it is policing ” misinformation ” and “disinformation ” and decides which is which. When Putin and China instituted the same agencies the same sanctimony brigade called them dangerous tyrants – which they are. Except that now they have competition.
      An intrusive and dangerous medical procedure was forced on citizens without their consent.
      (Oh but they had a choice! – sure, if starving to death is a proper way to exercise your rights.
      Chinese police stations operated in major cities.
      The FBI’ s complaint was that the Chinese didn’t coordinate with them!
      The FBI is the protector of the Constitution.
      Wink wink
      The DHS is engaged in an organized invasion of the country. Mass surveillance and FBI staging of crimes . I don’t think Trump is the threat to the constitution.
      Constitutions should apply equally to all citizens regardless of their politics or medical conditions.
      Funny that it has to be mentioned.

    CommoChief in reply to JG. | December 4, 2022 at 9:23 pm

    The first two paragraphs of his statement did what you describe. The message contained in the final two paragraphs was something else apart from those that preceded them.

    Trump is now a politician, a declared candidate running once again to become the r nominee for President, an office he has already held. He ran a successful 2016 campaign and unfortunately a less successful one in 2020. He is a very successful businessman and has been a businesses leader for decades. DJT is a spectacular marketer and salesman of the Trump brand across Hotels, Casinos even a board game.

    The bottom line is DJT knows better than most the power and impact of language and his selection of particular words, phrases and themes was deliberate. He is not some kid making his first speech at the Rotary Club who needs his hand held, He is a grown ass man, more than fully capable of expressing the message he wishes to convey. That’s exactly what he did here.

      artichoke in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 9:46 am

      Not that it matters, but the campaign in 2020 was also successful. I wouldn’t say “even more successful” because in 2016 he beat a tougher candidate. Nevertheless his language here may just be trying to draw more conservatives into a trap like J6.

        CommoChief in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 1:14 pm

        artichoke,

        Most people, at those with objectivity, measure success in a campaign by the candidate being sworn into the office they were campaigning for. DJT was successful in 2016 but not 2020. Sucks but Biden isn’t gonna be ‘replaced’ by DJT due to some new info on d/prog shenanigans.

    henrybowman in reply to JG. | December 4, 2022 at 9:33 pm

    “I think Trump is not saying that the Constitution should be thrown out”
    I think I’ve had enough of Peppermint Patty and the Human Brillo Pad without wanting to become them. It’s pretty clear what Trump said.

    Squires in reply to JG. | December 5, 2022 at 12:13 am

    THIS.

    My reading was that he was stating that the fraud allows THOSE WHO COMMIT IT to nullify any law, any protection, any right.

    But FFS nearly everyone touching this story seems in such a rush that they can’t be bothered to read what he actually said more than once. If at all.

      Milhouse in reply to Squires. | December 5, 2022 at 1:04 am

      Nice try, and that sentence alone, taken out of its context, could be read that way. But not when it follows directly after his demand for one of two completely impossible and unconstitutional remedies. It’s clear that he is the one who thinks the constitution is disposable.

    Colonel Travis in reply to JG. | December 5, 2022 at 12:35 am

    Instead of pretending what he said, why don’t you just read what he said? Did you miss the part where he asked what do we do about the 2020 election? He only had two possibilities: declare him the winner or have a do-over. Please explain how the Constitution allows for this.

      that’s his point! The Constitution does not have a remedy for fraudulent elections and Congress knowingly certifying an illegal vote

      It’s a hypothetical highlighting the inability of the current system to counter the kind of massive fraud and manipulation practiced by the democrats. He is not engaging in a coup. He is not doing anything except starting a conversation. Untreated, Never Trump fever can cause brain damage apparently.

    wendybar in reply to JG. | December 5, 2022 at 7:25 am

    Exactly right. even though the Never Trumpers don’t care, and won’t do a thing about the fraud. It WILL happen again. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

      CommoChief in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 8:31 pm

      Your warning that d/prog are gonna try and cheat in future elections is not the hidden prophesy that you seem to believe you have stumbled upon.

      Never Trump are by definition the people from 2015 forward who opposed DJT and did not vote for him. When you attempt to paint those who voted for him twice as Never Trump you expose yourself as a zealot.

I didn’t think there was an end deeper to go off, but he found it.

    retiredcantbefired in reply to Daiwa. | December 4, 2022 at 9:14 pm

    It no longer matters what Donald Trump has accomplished. Nor what he still needs protection from. Rejecting the Constitution means he is gone.

    He should get out of politics and abandon his quest for another Presidential nomination.

    We will not extricate ourselves from rule by an antiConstitutional regime if we give our support to yet another antiConstitutional politician. Donald Trump, of all people, should know this.

      I’m more like, rejecting his supporters including the J6 people means he’s gone. I don’t think the constitution speaks one way or the other about proper remedy in the current situation. Instructions for driving a car on the road may not apply when you’ve gone off into a minefield.

        Milhouse in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 10:24 am

        The constitution speaks very plainly. It provides only one way to remove a president, and no way at all to reverse an election or to install someone other than the vice president. And that is it.

Read it to say that the Fraud invalidated the Constitution.

    Exactly

    If the Constitution is now invalid as you claim then what should be the next several steps to restoring our constitutional republic?

      Did not say that at all. Please do not mischaracterize. Said that the ones perpetrating the fraud threatened invalidated and threatened the Constitution.

        Yes, you did say exactly that. “the Fraud invalidated the Constitution.” So the constitution is now invalid. You can’t have it both ways.

          artichoke in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 9:52 am

          But I think it can be temporary. Say you and I are playing a game of chess. Then I punch you in the face. A reasonable next step is for you to punch me back harder. Then we can still resume the game of chess. Your punching back, rather than continuing playing chess as if nothing had happened does not mean you are discrediting the game. I was the one who did that.

          You can mischaracterize and tell someone what they meant. Par for the course.

          Once again, THEIR fraud was an act that invalidated the Constitution. So far, they are the only ones that acted.

          This is the “look what you made me do” defense.

          No. Even Trump doesn’t say the fraud itself invalidated the Constitution. He said the fraud is so massive that it “allows” for the “termination” of the Constitution’s articles related to presidential elections. Thus his wanting to be crowned president retroactively or that there be a new 2020 election. Neither of those two options is constitutional.

          I seriously have no idea how you read his statement to mean anything but what he clearly stated:

          “So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION?”

          “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Trump declared. “Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

          He even doubled down on that with (in all caps): “UNPRECEDENTED FRAUD REQUIRES UNPRECEDENTED CURE!”

          What is the “cure” he’s talking about if, as you and others here claim, he means that the fraud itself terminated the Constitution?

          I wouldn’t have to tear up the Constitution if Democrats and Big Tech weren’t so slimy is NOT a good defense. I wouldn’t have to beat you if you would just keep the house clean. Yeah, no.

          Trump said: “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,”

          THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE DEMOCRATS DID, TERMINATION.

          The “cure” is not invalidation of the Constitution, but the election, something he has sad from the start.
          That is fact!

          And the next election is in 2024. The only way he’ll ever be president again is if he focuses on winning that race, not the last one. He just sounds completely insane. There is no remedy, there will be no new election, no one is going to step forward and declare him president (who in our Constitutional republic even has that power? Hint: no one).

          Was it unfair and wrong? Yep. But it is what it is, and the only thing to do is move forward, fix all the shady things that happened, guard against the ‘cabal’ that worked to “fortify the election,” and win the next race. The. Next. Race. Not the last one.

          Fair or not, that’s reality. And the sooner Trump embraces reality, the better for his campaign. Right now, he is alienating even people who voted for him twice. That’s quite the accomplishment. And should be very worrying to anyone who wants to see him win in ’24.

        Dude,

        That is what you said. Maybe you didn’t mean to express that but there’s no other meaning for the statement you posted.

        Y’all are running around with brooms and mops to try and clean up what DJT wrote and making a bigger mess in the process.

          Of course there is another meaning, the one you adopted.

          Not cleaning up for Trump. That’s silly. Your game to play.

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 2:41 pm

          If you want to modify or clarify your statement have at it. What you don’t get to do is act as if you didn’t make the original statement and realistically expect anyone to to go along with that deception.

    GravityOpera in reply to oldschooltwentysix. | December 4, 2022 at 10:32 pm

    “What Trump REALLY meant to say was…”

    No he said that campaign censorship (which is not vote fraud and therefore does not invalidate the election) allows for HIM to violate the Constitution.*

    * Just this once and just part of the Constitution. He won’t seek to be installed as President in 2028. He won’t take the guns first and due process later. Don’t worry about any precedents they won’t be used against us in the future.

    Colonel Travis in reply to oldschooltwentysix. | December 5, 2022 at 12:45 am

    How does fraud invalidate the Constitution? This is like saying anyone who commits sin invalidates Christianity. If everything that was unconstitutional invalidated the Constitution, the document would have been torn up with Marbury v. Madison in 1803. Whether people chose to follow the Constitution has nothing to do with the substance of the document itself. Either we follow it or we don’t.

    Also Trump later said in capital letters: UNPRECEDENTED FRAUD REQUIRES UNPRECEDENTED CURE!

    What the heck does that mean?

      I;ll try again, when the Constitution has no remedy for fraud in elections, the maybe a go around is needed..if, as is said, our rights in the constitution are not without government imposed restrictions, then that is and of itself a suspension of the Constitution, as nowhere therein is it enumerated that the rights given us can be legislated away

        Colonel Travis in reply to MarkS. | December 5, 2022 at 9:15 am

        Yes, that’s nice. So we go back and crown him president for 2020. We do this when? It results in what? And it never ever sets a precedent ever? This is a special occasion, only Trump gets to take advantage of? Do we build a hot tub time machine also? How much ammo do you have for the war that follows?

        Or we have a do-over election. See the questions above. And then add about 590 bazillion gazillion more questions, because this is the dumbest thing Trump has ever said.

        I voted for the man twice. When he is turning people like me off, when he makes Kanye West seem, I don’t know, sober – that is not a good sign.

      artichoke in reply to Colonel Travis. | December 5, 2022 at 9:55 am

      Whatever it means, I won’t follow him as a leader in curing it.

smalltownoklahoman | December 4, 2022 at 8:52 pm

I would support Joe and Kamala being removed from office due to their win being fraudulent, as well as having all of his executive orders being declared void. No to ditching the Constitution and just Installing Trump, we have a chain of command for a reason for situations like this. That would make it whoever is the current speaker of the house I believe should Joe and Kamala go. If Trump wants another turn as President he will have to win in 2024 and if he wants that to happen then yes I agree he needs to stop spouting nonsense like ignoring the Constitution.

    Their win being fraudulent is not a high crime or misdemeanor.

    Also, removing them would require two thirds of the senate to find them guilty of whatever they were charged with, which obviously cannot happen even if they were caught red-handed committing an actual crime.

      artichoke in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 9:56 am

      Why is stealing the election not a high crime or misdemeanor? If that isn’t, what could possibly be?

        Milhouse in reply to artichoke. | December 6, 2022 at 2:02 am

        Persuading Twitter to hide inconvenient news from its readers is not “stealing the election”. It’s not a crime of any kind.

          It is election meddling, though, and they did it with the express purpose of hiding the truth about their preferred candidate from American voters. I understand why people are outraged; heck, I’m outraged. The problem is that there is no recourse over 2020. The only thing that can be done is to ensure this stuff doesn’t happen again, and that’s what is happening now . . . in very slow motion.

          This exposure will make it harder for the same actors to do this again. That’s a good thing.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | December 6, 2022 at 9:22 am

          “Meddling” is not a crime; on the contrary, it is a constitutional right. It’s what politicians are supposed to do. The only argument against the Russians doing the same is that they’re foreign.

          I didn’t say it was a crime, Milhouse. If it were a crime, there would be recourse, right?

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | December 6, 2022 at 10:46 am

          But that’s the topic, Fuzzy. That’s what we’re discussing. Whether Congress could remove Biden and Harris over this revelation about the FBI’s contacts with Twitter. And the fact is that even if they had both personally asked the FBI to do that, it still wouldn’t be a “high crime or misdemeanor”, or indeed any kind of crime at all, and therefore couldn’t be grounds for removing them even if you could persuade two-thirds of the senate to go along with it, which is of course impossible.

          Right, and I pointed out that it’s not illegal but that everyone has every right to be outraged. Do you have a problem with that? With my supporting your (accurate) point that the actions were not unlawful? Apparently, you do.

          healthguyfsu in reply to Milhouse. | December 6, 2022 at 1:40 pm

          By the new bar*, it’s an impeachable offense.

          *That bar is low

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | December 6, 2022 at 3:45 pm

          Fuzzy, we are not discussing whether to be outraged. We are discussing one thing and one thing only — smalltownoklahoman’s statement that “I would support Joe and Kamala being removed from office due to their win being fraudulent”. For that to happen the house and two thirds of the senate must find them guilty of a “high crime or misdemeanor”, when in fact this story, even if they were proven beyond any doubt to have been 100% responsible for it, would not be even a tiny little crime. It would merely be a dirty political trick.

          Dude, your head is so far up your own butt that you truly have zero understanding of human emotion. It’s bizarre, but it’s who you are, I guess.

          You must be super fun to talk to in person: “we are discussing one thing, and one thing only, how dare you bring up anything that is related but not the actual ONE THING!!! Just shut up and don’t agree with me and then venture a NOT THE ONE THING viewpoint!!!”

          I agreed with you, and you just keep railing. What do you get out of attacking people who are on your side? It’s just bizarre.

I am a great fan of what Trump accomplished as president, even if his persona was not to my liking.
Unfortunately, his recent statements, suggesting that he would bypass the Constitution, are political suicide. He indicates he would not honor his Oath of Office.

What part of our constitution addresses a remedy to a cabal stealing elections/power?

    CommoChief in reply to Dathurtz. | December 4, 2022 at 9:43 pm

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
    John Adams

    gonzotx in reply to Dathurtz. | December 4, 2022 at 10:01 pm

    Exactly

    GravityOpera in reply to Dathurtz. | December 4, 2022 at 10:53 pm

    There is a Constitutional remedy. It’s called “Impeachment”.

      Milhouse in reply to GravityOpera. | December 5, 2022 at 1:13 am

      Not really. Even if two-thirds of the senate were willing, which they are obviously not, it would require them to find both Biden and Harris guilty of a “high crime or misdemeanor”. Whatever that means, Twitter suppressing a story isn’t it, because they played no part in it.

        GravityOpera in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 2:38 pm

        Do you have any evidence that Biden and Harris played no part in the FBI’s involvement in the censorship?

          Milhouse in reply to GravityOpera. | December 6, 2022 at 2:04 am

          Even if you could prove that they personally asked the FBI to tell Twitter that the laptop story was a Russian hoax, that would not be a crime of any kind.

All those who think that Trump is calling to ditch the Constitution have failed the test. Read the quote slowly until you understand it. Remember your grammar. The subject of the sentence is “Massive Fraud”. That’s what “allows” for the termination. In other words, the fraud itself has vitiated the Constitution.

In order to read it the way this whole post has characterized it, Trump would have to have said, “Massive Fraud allows ME (or you, or us) to terminate… .

By failing such a simple test, you’ve confirmed your bias for all to see.

    henrybowman in reply to Coolpapa. | December 4, 2022 at 9:35 pm

    He said “allows for.” That means “permission.” What do you think it means?

    healthguyfsu in reply to Coolpapa. | December 4, 2022 at 9:42 pm

    It’s not a deep and meaningful statement with any kind of subtlety whatsoever.

    Stop trying to swerve around the idiocy of the crazed idiot to whom you have hitched your wagon.

    Colonel Travis in reply to Coolpapa. | December 4, 2022 at 11:37 pm

    Can I let you in on a little secret? What Trump said was more idiotic than your defense of it.

    The statement boils down to: If fraud, then X.

    What is X? X is “the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.” Who would do the terminating? Joe Biden? Taylor Swift? A dromedary camel?

    How do we get to X? Trump said that massive fraud “allows for” X. OK, tell me how we get to X without an actor? It can’t because it requires one. So who is it? First and foremost, it must be Trump because he’s the freaking person who said it’s possible. After that, he needs support from far more people in this country than not. Good luck with that.

    I do not understand why you bend over backwards with this nonsense.
    1.) Look in the bias mirror.
    2.) The fact that you cannot criticize this man is scary as hell. I voted for him twice, I could vote for him a third time, but I cannot suck up to him like you do, I am not sure why you find a need to.

      Thank you for proving my point:

      “If fraud, then X” “the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”

      The actor is clear. Not “Joe Biden? Taylor Swift? A dromedary camel”, but those who perpetrated the Fraud. They are responsible for the termination which has already happened.

      Trump’s point is and has always been, “what do you do about the now obvious fraud in the 2020 election that has endangered our Constitutional order?” His belief and opinion is to have a do-over or some other unprecedented remedy outside the Constitution because the Constitution has already been vitiated by the fraud. I’m not sure that’s wise or even possible, but he’s entitled to his opinion. Still, the question remains, what do you do about it? For what other crime of this magnitude do we ignore restitution? And remember, suggesting everyone “just move on” or “cheat harder next time” only means you’re OK with the Constitution already being terminated.

      I’ll dismiss your last 2 points as arguing facts not in evidence because you don’t know me. I stand to defend anyone and everyone who is unjustly maligned.

        Colonel Travis in reply to Coolpapa. | December 5, 2022 at 3:09 pm

        Proved your point?
        Ah, no.

        If you take his statement the way you read it (the fraudsters have permitted the collapse), it still leaves the question, which you acknowledge, of what do we do about it? We have a vague yet scary answer in Trump’s subsequent, 4th grade girl post in all caps: “UNPRECEDENTED FRAUD REQUIRES UNPRECEDENTED CURE!”

        Why is that a scary answer? He already said that “all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution” can be thrown out the window because either:

        1.) They already have been thrown out the window, as is your interpretation
        2.) I (Trump) now have permission to throw them out.

        It doesn’t matter which. He advocates abandoning not just the Constitution but anything else he sees fit.

        You yourself question his wisdom here. I’ll help you out here so you don’t have any more questions: What he proposes is F-ing insane. What could be done to fix this mess is not complicated and very within the bounds of the Constitution, and of our other laws and customs. But it requires (R) willpower that doesn’t exist. Trump doesn’t seem to understand the power that states hold in elections, vs the federal government, nor does he understand how ineffective he is at uniting his own base (forget the country). I’ve heard him say in the past that he’s learned a lot since 2020. I don’t believe him.

        I am one who has given Trump a lot of leeway in his comments. This is not one of those times.

          I see by your response that you do understand the quote as I explained at first. I’ll take that as a win.

          As to Trump’s “4th grade girl post”, as you put it, it only seems that way because it’s so damn obvious. The fraud of 2020 was indeed unprecedented. I won’t recount the litany of shenanigans that went on, but do reread Molly Ball’s article in Time 2/4/21 about how the fraud (“fortifying”) was coordinated and bipartisan with unprecedented private financing (Zuckerbucks). And if you think “state power” is sufficient to overcome that kind of fraud, remember that several states led by Texas petitioned the Supreme Court (the proper venue) for redress against Pennsylvania for deny the state legislature its Constitutional right to determine the manner of its election only to be denied standing. Oh yes, the cure for this unprecedented fraud will be unprecedented. (And I noticed that you didn’t address my question about restitution. Any thoughts?)

          The “scary” (scare quotes intentional) answer you propose misquotes Trump again. He does not say, “all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution” CAN be thrown out the window”. Trump is not advocating that, it’s the fraud that DOES it. While those who are hysterically screaming that Trump wants to “abandon” the Constitution, the perpetrators of the fraud have already torn it up, burned it, and are throwing the ashes in their faces. A reasonable person would seem better served to direct his ire at them, not at Trump for pointing it out.

          An unprecedented cure does not need to be outside “the bounds of the Constitution, and of our other laws and customs”. In fact, there is Supreme Court precedent for dealing with fraud in the judiciary that could be a guide:

          “[T]ampering with the administration of justice as indisputably shown here involves far more than injury to a single litigant. It is a wrong against the institutions set up to protect and safeguard the public, institutions In which fraud cannot complacently be tolerated consistent with the good order of society” (Hazel-Atlas Glass Co. v. Hartford- Empire Co., 322 US 238 (1944)).
          “There is no question of the general doctrine that fraud vitiates the most solemn contracts, documents, and even judgments” (United States v. Throckmorton, 98 US 61(1878).

          Now I’m not a lawyer, but this is a law blog. It seems to me that those who are invested in the practice of law should be interested in addressing Trump’s concerns through the law instead of maligning him. Or maybe I’m wrong, maybe that’s not what lawyers do.

    diver64 in reply to Coolpapa. | December 5, 2022 at 4:25 am

    Finally, someone that can see past the kneejerk Trump Is Satan over everything and can actually read. You are exactly correct in this.

    Evil Otto in reply to Coolpapa. | December 5, 2022 at 5:33 am

    You demand that we reread the quote “until we understand it,” and then in the same comment write “In other words, the fraud itself has vitiated the Constitution.” If your proof is in the quote, then why do you have to say “in other words?”

    Trump was clear. He believes that there should be a do-over. The Constitution allows for no such thing. Once the EC has declared the winner then THAT IS IT. There’s no new election, fraud or no. The next election will be held on schedule. If there is fraud then that is grounds for impeachment and removal, but that’s the job of Congress.

    Don’t tell others to read words that aren’t there.

Eastwood Ravine | December 4, 2022 at 9:16 pm

The intent and meaning of Trump’s statement is that we’re now in THE post-constitutional United States.of America. The Constitution is now a set of rules that will be selectively enforced.

    henrybowman in reply to Eastwood Ravine. | December 4, 2022 at 9:36 pm

    Let’s assume that is true.
    Then why would I give a damn from now on who votes for who to be President?
    That’s just more constitutional mummery.
    No constitution. Every man for himself. What’s left?

      gonzotx in reply to henrybowman. | December 4, 2022 at 10:02 pm

      What’s left is what we really have

      Eastwood Ravine in reply to henrybowman. | December 4, 2022 at 10:43 pm

      It means if Republicans, the MAGA party, or the Tea party, etc…, want to win, we have to fight back using the same tactics the Dems have been using. Lincoln didn’t let the Constitution stand in his way to get us through the Civil War.

      I’d argue that’s where exactly we are. The Left has effectively weaponized 90+% of the institutions against conservatives and ordinary Americans.

        The only method we have to fight back is government (something Trump did not actually do a good job at using when in power) and the only way we could do that is by winning elections which frankly we can’t do with Trump.

        henrybowman in reply to Eastwood Ravine. | December 5, 2022 at 12:14 am

        And Lincoln’s megalomania was the first of the three* great breaches of constitutional trust that resulted in the federal government being transformed into a national totalitarian swamp.

        Let’s not make the same mistake the left continually does, and misuse cautionary tales as battle plans.

        *The other two being the policies of the Wilson and FDR administrations.

          healthguyfsu in reply to henrybowman. | December 6, 2022 at 1:44 pm

          The South was dumb enough to give Lincoln pretext for war by firing on Fort Sumter.

          It was not a smart move as he was just waiting for it.

      wendybar in reply to henrybowman. | December 5, 2022 at 7:29 am

      And that IS what is left. We are done. If you don’t think they will do this again with whomever runs next, I have a bridge to sell you.

        CommoChief in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 8:41 pm

        Hey everyone!!!
        Wendy has super big news! Apparently the d/prog are gonna try out all sorts of shenanigans to help them defeat r during elections.

        No Shit Wendy did you just figure that out?

This guy is off his rocker.

I dont’ understand how this is defensible by his followers.

Bad move on his part.

Better to just pound away for two years about how the Dems stole the election.

There’s just no “there” in the country that would support making Biden and Kamala leave office right now.

    BierceAmbrose in reply to TheOldZombie. | December 4, 2022 at 10:08 pm

    “Better to just pound away for two years about how the Dems stole the election.”

    What appeals to me right now, hypothetically, is this election=process pounding, plus inventory of actual accomplishments in office — you want more of that?, and a next-term objective off driving toward a peculiar kind of “good governance” in which state functions are not authorities herding the volk, but administrative functions enacting the citizens’ direction.

    The Orange Crush seems unable to orient himself that way. It also seems there’s no more herding him in on shooting his mouth off than there was on getting Slick Willie to keep his Willie in the hanger. So, this is what we get.

    GravityOpera in reply to TheOldZombie. | December 4, 2022 at 11:08 pm

    “I lost because they stole the election therefore you should vote for me!” is a terrible slogan. It will suppress voting by those who would otherwise vote for him and encourage voting by those who oppose him.

    I hope he takes your advice.

This is how they do it, read it and weep

I didnt know the unemployed were so generous..

Campaign Finance Mules” Identified in Georgia Senate Race – Democrat Raphael Warnock Received Over $24 Million from Hundreds of UNEMPLOYED Donors Giving Over 358,000 Donations

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/12/shocking-huge-exclusive-georgias-raphael-warnock-received-24-million-money-mules-unemployed-gave-small-amounts-358000-donations/

    CommoChief in reply to gonzotx. | December 4, 2022 at 10:30 pm

    gonzo,

    The d/prog have been running this sort of thing for at least three decades that I know about. Back in the day the big employers would channel donations through their employees to their favored candidates. Gave the appearance of many smaller donors v one or two big ones. Obama’s team was really good at it, they automated it using pre paid debit cards.

    Maybe all those donors sending small amounts to Trump in response to his increasingly manic solicitations about the mid-terms should have instead sent the money directly to their preferred candidate. Trump kept the vast majority of the cash. It was a bait-and-switch grift. Trump is becoming increasingly unhinged as he sees the polling indicating that he has no chance to win in 2024. Let’s focus on finding someone who can.

      henrybowman in reply to RNJD. | December 5, 2022 at 12:20 am

      LOL. I was no more willing to funnel my donations through Trump than I was to funnel them through the NRSC. Whenever my only choice to donate to a particular campaign was a Winred website, I made damn sure the funds were earmarked for that candidate only.

      Sally MJ in reply to RNJD. | December 5, 2022 at 5:54 am

      “Unhinged“ is exactly the right word.

      gonzotx in reply to RNJD. | December 5, 2022 at 11:19 am

      President Trump has no
      Chance to win? Lol you trust the polling.. again? Lol
      It’s Trump 2024 or the so
      Called Republicans are toast!

        GravityOpera in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 2:46 pm

        It’s not the polling. It’s the historical evidence. He performed embarrassingly bad against the worst candidate I can think of, Hillary, then lost to Biden and Republicans that he endorsed over the last four elections generally under-performed relative to those who distanced themselves from him.

        “But, but, but FRAUD!!!!” Yes, I am taking fraud into account.

Ignoring that that was an abominable statement that can’t be made right by any context short of say genocide by the United States Government, or Genocide by the United States government, or ethnic cleansing by the United States government (did I mention genocide already? ok I covered the entire range of acceptable for the statement of ignore the constitution and launch a coup) Trump has both greatly strengthened the special prosecutor after him with that statement (every judge who hears a claim by that prosecutor will now see that tweet labelled “Trump in his own words”) and weakened all of us.

Elon Musk blew a major whistle; Bari Weiss was given access to the files early and is going to be discussing them, we had the wind at our backs on the topic and Trump shows up and turns a massive win into a massive loss.

You don’t owe Trump giving Biden a second term, dump him before he drags us to the depths.

I wasn’t happy about Trump in 2016, reluctantly voted for him.

Was completely blown away by his presidency, would have crawled over broken glass to vote for him.

But then we largely lost 2020 and 2022 by Trump and the RNC’s continued refusal to adapt to mail-in and early voting. Case in point Arizona this year. And this all became much more important due to Trump’s own lockdowns. To say nothing of the fact that HIS FBI did nothing with the Hunter laptop.

So after our Midterm debacle, I wasn’t too keen on nominating Trump in 2024, but accepted that I would vote for him if he’s the nominee.

But after this week? Get real, I do NOT want to spend all campaign trying to answer the riddles of whatever Trump secretly really meant in all of his truth social posts like some around here.

It is time to move on from Trump.

    clintack in reply to cashin. | December 5, 2022 at 6:52 am

    Assumes facts not in evidence: When was the FBI ever Trump’s?

    But otherwise I mostly agree. His bluntness and direct talk on Twitter was supposed to cut through the media fog and make his points clearer. In 2016 it was doing that effectively. It doesn’t seem to be doing that anymore.

      artichoke in reply to clintack. | December 5, 2022 at 6:24 pm

      Trump appointed Christopher Wray, who immediately started making him a victim. Trump was not stupid. (Now he’s losing it, but not 5 years ago.) I don’t blame him for the senator from Alabama, but the rest, it was as if he was trying to victimize himself and create the narrative that eventually came about.

      To me that’s as plausible explanation as any for what happened with Pres. Warpspeed.

    It is time to move on from ALL current leadership of the Republican party. I live in a nationally known swing district in the 2022 election, held by a Democrat. The election was expected to be close. While gerrymandering gave it to the Republican in 2022 by 5%, there was ZERO new and different to get me to vote early or to vote at all, just the usual print mailings sent out for decades. In particular, Romney’s niece has to go.

Only Trump would come up with such an creative and indirect way for him to exit the race and hand the nomination to DeSantis.

    wendybar in reply to Sally MJ. | December 5, 2022 at 7:32 am

    They will attack DeSantis the same. They will continue to cheat. Good luck.

      CommoChief in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 8:48 am

      Trump throws up these statements like a high, hanging curveball which get hit over the wall. Then he and his surrogates get defensive about the rest of the world wondering where is a relief pitcher.

      The d/prog, the DC establishment and the corporate media will attack whomever becomes the r nominee. They will not have the easy pitches that DJT throws out to use against anyone else but DJT. It won’t be ‘the same’.

Trump is more right than people want to admit. If the ruling Communists are not going to play by the Constitution (and they don’t) and take a no-holds-barred approach to power (which they have for 50+ years), either we play the same game, or they take total control and put us in boxcars, gulags and mass graves.

Trump would not be killing constitutional rule. He is pointing out the fact that the left is killing it and we have to deal with it accordingly.

Fuzzy can lead you all in a chorus of “Trump is so bad he can never win in 2024”? At least you all will be singing together. Then she can lead you in the second verse “Only DeSantis can save us in 2024”. Sing together folks. It will sound better.

    LOL, trust me, no one wants to hear me sing. I can’t carry a tune in a bucket. AND I want DeSantis to stay here in Florida until 2028, a point I’ve made numerous times. But you got the part about Trump not being able to win right, so that’s something.

      bobguzzardi48 in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | December 5, 2022 at 9:13 am

      Neither Pres. Trump nor Gov. DeSantis can win the nomination without Palm Beach County Republican votes, in my opinion.

      Among the Palm Beach County Republican Party activist rank and file, such as myself, there is NO support for a DeSantis challenge to Trump. NONE. There would be a self-defeating conflict among Republican activists and party members in the Palm Beach County Party if DeSantis challenges Trump .

      As a rank and file Palm Beach County Republican, I will support the man who started the movement. And has inspired so many.

      Gov. DeSantis would NOT have been elected governor in 2018 had it not been for Trump 2016 and all that followed.

      LIKE NO OTHER Trump has earned the hearts and minds of 10s of millions of Americans and that is growing. Gov. DeSantis could NOT have done what Pres. Trump did. No one has been reviled, defamed, prosecuted and persecuted for representing those 10s of millions as has Donald Trump.

        Colonel Travis in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 10:10 am

        “…and that is growing.”

        No, it isn’t.

        Beautifully stated. Thank you

        artichoke in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 6:31 pm

        He’s not the same Trump. He’ll be about 80 and mentally he’s losing it. His speeches aren’t the same. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. Maybe that’s what happened at the end of his term, around 1/6/2021. But whatever it is, we don’t owe a vote to someone who can no longer handle the job, let alone at the end of a term 4 years older. We cannot restore what was lost, the 2021-2024 presidential term, but it doesn’t mean we owe something else.

        healthguyfsu in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 7:33 pm

        It’s cute that you think one county in FL is that important to an election. Trump polls absolutely awfully nationwide and you have to count FL as a given for Rs at this point to even have a plausible path to the WH for the right.

        I’m not saying your little band of merry trump lovers is a shoe-in for DeSantis, but unless they want another Dem POTUS they better vote for the next most viable alternative. Hint: It’s not Trump. Who knows if it’s DeSantis, but throwing your little county’s weight behind Trump means next to nothing in the big game.

      bobguzzardi48 in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | December 5, 2022 at 9:35 am

      If anything, it is becoming more and more evident, even obvious, that Democrats, the DNC and their Deep State and Media and Academia and Bit Tech and Celebrity Attention Seekers rigged (stole) the 2020 election.

      Logically, if an election has been proven to have been stolen, what do you do? It is the Democratic Machine that has trashed the Constitution.

      Trump started the America First/MAGA Movement, or at the very least, inspired the Movement with an energy not seen for years. Trump is indispensable to the America First/MAGA movement and I, and other rank and file, will stay with him.

      What are YOU going to do about it? Trump’s post has exposed how ineffectual YOU and the “experts” are. The election was rigged and you are afraid to say that and, most certainly, do anything about it.

      Trump’s post makes it clear the Constitution was trashed but NOT by him.

      LIKE NO OTHER ‘He and Only He Can Stop This Swamp’

      Do not be of faint heart.

        CommoChief in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 9:58 am

        In 2016 Trump became the Avatar for the existing populist right movement. He added folks who had been sitting it out on the sidelines. Did a very nice job in waking some folks up and reaching out to non traditional r voters. No one else could have done it in 2016 and we should all be grateful for his past accomplishments. The 2024 election isn’t about the past but instead about the present and future.

        The populist right was here before Trump and we will be here after Trump. For myself, I hope all the folks Trump brought to understand the stakes and reenter politics won’t simply pout and stay home when the day comes that DJT isn’t on the ballot.

          gonzotx in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 11:16 am

          Millions won’t,
          Me included

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 1:21 pm

          gonzo,

          You state ‘millions won’t me included’.

          The thing you are stating that you ‘won’t do’ is stay home and pout. You have previously stated you would stay home unless DJT is on the ballot in ’24.

          Did you change your mind?

          wendybar in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 4:56 pm

          Why would we waste our time voting for people who hate us?? Let it fall. You vote for the same people like McConnell who is actively working against us today. Good luck with your Uniparty. They need all the SERFS they can get.

          healthguyfsu in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 7:35 pm

          Commo,

          This is far too complicated for gonzo to understand.

          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 8:52 pm

          Wendy,

          I don’t live in KY so I don’t get to vote either to or against McConnell who is US Senator who represents the people and State of KY.

          No serfdom for me thanks. I got a very full pantry, a well, stocked ponds, gardens, orchard, greenhouse, multiple combat tours on three continents, lots of hunting supplies and like minded neighbors in a rural red County in a very red State. We country folk will survive.

        “Logically, if an election has been proven to have been stolen, what do you do?”

        Well, actually you first have to prove it. In court. No allegations. No theories. With evidence. First-hand evidence. That wasn’t done. In over 60 cases, Trump’s lawyers failed to do that. Lots of people “saw” something, but persuasive alternative explanations existed.

        The belief that every single judge in the country hearing these cases was “anti-MAGA” or “pro-NWO” or some such nonsense is stupid. Provide the absolute, concrete evidence or stop it with the statement that the 2020 presidential election was “proven” to be stolen.

        Nobody proved nothing. And lots of us are more concerned about supporting a 2024 candidate with ideas about the future who can actually WIN an election, than an old, tired guy complaining about the past.

          artichoke in reply to RNJD. | December 5, 2022 at 6:35 pm

          Proof: few if any cases got to the merits. How many cases allowed the voluminous facts to be entered into evidence?

          You’re welcome. Gaslight yourself.

        artichoke in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 6:34 pm

        What am I going to do about it? I can’t do much. Most forms of direct action are illegal, and may I point out that Trump did nothing to protect his 1/6 supporters. And others like Pillow and Sidney Powell are facing billion dollar lawsuits, no statements of support from Trump for these loyal friends.

        Since I can’t do much, I won’t do much. Go incite yourself.

I don’t know what scares me most: the thought of 4 more years of FJB, or the belief that some on the right seem to have that all will be corrected if only we can drag DJT across the finish line. They seem to treat Trump as a talisman – his mere presence will slay the dragon and ward off evil.
Does he fight – yes. But not very well. From Sessions to Barr, he came up short. I had hopes that he would use his second term to correct the errors of the first one, but it doesn’t seem he learned much. His announcement of candidacy was handled about as skillfully as Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal, followed by 2 serious unforced errors in a week.
I love and respect the man, I thank him for what he did for us. I damn the democrats for what they did and are doing to him. 2024…?
If, after 6 years of democrat perfidy, he is the only one who can save us, we are doomed.

    wendybar in reply to VaGentleman. | December 5, 2022 at 7:34 am

    We are doomed because the Repubicans are squishes that cave to the Progressives every time we need them. Keep dreaming that things will change without Trump.

      VaGentleman in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 7:57 am

      And how will Trump un-squish them? And how long will their new firmness last? And why didn’t he do it the first time? And why doesn’t he show better leadership skills now? And why does he continue to do things that make it harder to get him elected?

      CommoChief in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 8:57 am

      So why did Trump endorse the ultimate squish to be Speaker? Why throw his support to McCarthy?

      Y’all paint this picture that DJT is gonna be the uncompromising and all conquering hero who destroys the DC establishment but then you chose to ignore his concessions to the establishment swamp.

      Which is it? Is DJT the uncompromising conqueror or just another candidate who recognizes compromises must be made even if they are distasteful?

        artichoke in reply to CommoChief. | December 5, 2022 at 6:39 pm

        I haven’t seen much to make me dislike McCarthy. Legislation is all about putting together a majority. McCarthy is doing that, and he hasn’t done anything to slow down coming Republican investigations. I think he wants to take Ilhan Omar off her committee. If he can steer an adequately centrist course and still get these things done, that’s what winning looks like. Going way to the right and failing to get the votes is what the Dems would love.

          CommoChief in reply to artichoke. | December 5, 2022 at 8:57 pm

          McCarthy put his nose into r primary races funding the establishment friendly candidates at the expense of outsider and populist candidates.

          McCarthy lives in DC with Luntz the focus group dude who is somehow always telling r not to do what the populist base who elected them wants.

          That’s two off the top of my head.

I love our constitution, and I hate our government.

I think the question becomes this – is there a constitutional remedy to the great evil that was the stolen 2020 election?

And I think the ultimate answer is this – it’s not just about the constitution, it’s about people. And if we have corrupt people in legislatures that will certify fraudulent elections, and we have corrupt people in the judiciary that will turn a blind eye to fraudulent elections, and we have corrupt people in the executive who will continue to serve the corrupt powers that be, can our constitution survive?

Trump’s point here is that the massive fraud perpetrated upon us has already broken all the rules – can we still use the rules to defend against it?

And honestly, I’m not sure if I know the answer. I’m hopeful, and I think maybe the great migration from shitty blue cities and counties to red states may provide a path forward, but it’s certainly a long game, and I understand the frustration of those who would not want to see 50 years of corruption before justice is served.

For those who feel like Trump (and many do), I counsel patience while still understanding their righteous anger.

For those who don’t understand how Trump and his supporters feel (and many do), I counsel empathy towards people who have been grievously wronged, while still seeing their ultimate goal of justice as worthy.

    gonzotx in reply to jhkrischel. | December 5, 2022 at 11:15 am

    Exact, please send that statement to President Trump so
    He can articulate his message more appropriately

    wendybar in reply to jhkrischel. | December 5, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    They would rather bash us, and call us Magats and Maga terrorists. Why would we vote for who they want, when they treat us just like the Progressive left does?? They hate us, they tell us every day. This is their hill to die on. Don’t blame us. This party left us.

      healthguyfsu in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 7:39 pm

      That’s the left calling you a terrorist.

      We just call you child-like in your following of your pied piper…that’s better, right?

      Anyways, I thought your group might have thicker skin than that and be able to think in more complex terms about national landscape and implications of staying home. I guess I set my expectations too high.

    artichoke in reply to jhkrischel. | December 5, 2022 at 6:42 pm

    True, but Trump has already disqualified himself as a revolutionary leader, by betraying his loyal supporters. He can’t lead people into a battle. He could in 2016, but not anymore. Now we see he’s become a snake, and “you knew I was a snake before you let me in” would apply.

Unfortunately the Constitution is merely words written on paper. It is not self enforcing. It takes the people to enforce it and when they fail to do so it will be lost and the people will have only themselves to blame.

    r2468 in reply to kjon. | December 5, 2022 at 8:02 am

    I agree. It’s never what should be done. Rather, It’s who will do something. I’m beginning to understand actions of the founders. They put their lives on the line against the British establishment. I’ll bet there were plenty of British and Local officials in the States running interference for the King.

    r2468 in reply to kjon. | December 5, 2022 at 8:07 am

    Probably told the Colonists they would vote harder for them in Parliment.

      CommoChief in reply to r2468. | December 5, 2022 at 9:04 am

      Well no, lack of parliamentary representation was a major factor in the revolution.

      Vote by all means. Don’t stop there that’s the minimum. Make sure you volunteer as a poll watcher to challenge the shenanigans as they occur. Donate to candidates, do some door knocking for them, man a phone bank.

      Become active in your local r party. Make sure your local party leadership are based not establishment cronies. Then get to work with other like minded folks in your State to reform the State r party leadership.

      Voting is the minimum. Much more is required but we must be willing to do the heavy lifting. No one is coming to save us. We have to save ourselves.

        You have said that before and challenged people to get involved. That is fine but my point is we have people elected to represent us. We have law enforcement to uphold the law. We have judges to ensure the rule of law. We have election officials responsible for fair elections. I challenge them to do their jobs. I’m talking about All of them and not just the majority of good people. Remove the corruption, it’s making the rest of you look bad.

          CommoChief in reply to r2468. | December 5, 2022 at 1:32 pm

          My State elections are run with clear nd transparent rules. No ballot harvesting and we don’t have ‘no excuse absentee’ ballots or mass mailed ballots. ID is required and we vote in person on election day.

          We did the work in my State and my County and my precinct. There isn’t any corruption to speak of in elections in my State.

          Y’all got to do the work to get the same in your State, County and precinct. I ain’t coming to do it for you in your State. No one else is coming either. No white knight is firing in to save you, you gotta be willing to do the work to save yourself in your State.

          r2468 in reply to r2468. | December 5, 2022 at 2:09 pm

          I’d rather type comments on my computer. Are you sure you won’t move to CA to help us? Just kidding I don’t live in CA.

          artichoke in reply to r2468. | December 5, 2022 at 6:44 pm

          Oh you challenge them? OK then for sure they’ll step up to your challenge, because you challenged them.

          What if they laugh at you instead? Because some of them are, you know.

        Saying The British will vote harder in Parliament on the behalf of the Colonists is comedy. Taxation without representation was a real issue in colonial times.

if we have a “living and breathing Constitution” then Trump was spot on, if we don’t then any legislation that restricts any right guaranteed in it is a suspension of the constitution

We are already outside the Constitution. The only question left is how we get back inside it. “You can vote your way INTO Socialism, but….”

Steven Brizel | December 5, 2022 at 8:26 am

We know have. Smoking gun type evidence but that does not require conduct not sanctioned by the Constitution

The left ruins every institution they take over and they took over our electoral process through legislation and judicial rulings.

    gonzotx in reply to r2468. | December 5, 2022 at 11:13 am

    Cheating, you forgot cheating

      r2468 in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 11:41 am

      The establishment is stigmatizing anyone who mentions “cheating” or “fraud” saying it’s not proven in court. So I’m stating the obvious. Yes IMO there was cheating. The state legislatures, courts, prosecutors and DOJ stood by and did next to nothing. they ran out the clock. I know it’s true along with the majority of Republicans according to polling. GOPe May say otherwise but people know when things are off.

      r2468 in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 2:24 pm

      I’ve responded gonzotx but several of my comments are currently missing including this one. I don’t understand why my comments would violate LI standards. Strange occurrences. I’m very peaceful so the FBI and CNN can stand down and sleep in tomorrow.

If only we had a DOJ we could trust. But if we did, we wouldn’t be in this situation. TDS is causing as much damage has racial hatred has done in the past..

    artichoke in reply to gbear. | December 5, 2022 at 6:47 pm

    Much more. The racial hatred of the past is overstated, at least stretching back to the start of the civil rights movement, which is a time span I can remember. There wasn’t much hatred then either, more like arguments over property rights. Do black kids have a right to go to the white kids’ school, for example. But very few people if any actually hated the kids.

“If the government will not protect constitutional rights designed to preserve our freedom, it is up to the people to reclaim them.” – Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Rebecca Bradley

bobguzzardi48 | December 5, 2022 at 9:14 am

When Russians did what Democrats did, it was called “election interference” A CRIME..

Are the Democrats above the Law? It appears so. The bedrock of the Constitution is free and fair elections. The Democrats have undermined the entire electoral process with media manipulation, ballot harvesting, ZuckBucks and so on. Without Consequence.

Has the Democratic National Committee and elected and appointed Democratic operatives not corrupted, even overturned the Constitutional order? They have ” [terminated ] of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”

Trump is right again. Obviously. None dare say what he says but he is right. LIKE NO OTHER

    The only “crime” alleged against the Russian interference (assuming there was any) was the fact that they are foreign. For an American to try to influence an election result is absolutely NOT a crime; on the contrary, it is a constitutional right!

    And the so-called “crime” of foreigners doing so violates the fundamental principle on which the USA was founded, which is that everyone, including foreigners, has “certain inalienable rights”, among which is the freedom of speech. While the constitution can’t protect foreigners’ rights, it also can’t alienate them. So a law that directly abridges those rights is an abomination and ought to be invalid.

    artichoke in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 6:50 pm

    Trump was right on Jan. 6. People came out to support it. Some were incited further by planted agents in the crowd as we now know. And these people now rot in prison and Trump did nothing in the days when he could have done something. Instead he slipped out of office late at night (I saw a video that looked like things being loaded into a vehicle and driving away from the WH) and let people speculate that he was still there for at least 2 weeks. “Patriots are in charge!” etc. Nothing could be more damaging to morale than that, and rightly so. Nobody will trust him again.

    artichoke in reply to bobguzzardi48. | December 5, 2022 at 6:52 pm

    So to make it even clearer, yes things are awful terrible abominable. So what? I can’t fix it, but what I can do is not to waste my vote on Trump if he runs in the primaries again.

    I won’t get riled up about it either. You won’t bait me.

Fact #1- Like it or not, Trump is not POTUS, there will be no do-over. Do I think there were significant problems with the 2020 election that unjustly tipped the scales in Biden’s favor? Yes I do.

Which leads me to Fact #2- His only route to being POTUS again is to both find a way to nullify those tipped scales and inspire enough people to vote for him to win.

Regardless of what he did or did not mean with this latest statement, many people I know who are solid Trump supporters are wondering what the hell is wrong with him. They don’t like what he’s saying one bit.

My hope is that he stops with all the 2020 talk while making plans to make sure the forces that tipped the scales in 2020 DO NOT succeed again, while convincing people that he can reverse the total disaster that is our economy and supply lines under the Biden regime, among other things.

People who are struggling with $7.00 plus per gallon heating oil and diesel plus the possibility of rationing do not want to hear about nullifying the Constitution, hypothetical, or otherwise.

    gonzotx in reply to SField. | December 5, 2022 at 11:13 am

    Stop all
    The talk about the stealing of a Presidential election, just move on, we can’t stand the truth?

    What’s wrong with you people ?

    When they are stealing elections left and right IT IS THE ISSUE!!!!

      SField in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 11:49 am

      I thought I was clear when I said- “while making plans to make sure the forces that tipped the scales in 2020 DO NOT succeed again”.

      Formulating a plan to prevent 2024 from being another stolen election should be the overriding goal for the Trump campaign, not bitching about 2020, which at this point is unfortunately a done deal and cannot/will not be changed.

      I think Trump preventing the next election from being stolen is a good way to deal with elections being stolen left and right.

      wendybar in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 5:01 pm

      They don’t care, because they hated Trump anyways. They will get what they deserve. Joe Biden.

Meanwhile, a citizen in Utah, without the aid of attorney, has gotten his case on the docket of SCOTUS. If successful, 100s of members of Congress would be found guilty of treason. For commentary: https://docbrown77.substack.com/p/interesting-scotus-case-hit-the-docket. For the SCOTUS filing: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-380/243739/20221027152243533_20221027-152110-95757954-00007015.pdf … One would think that the amicus briefs would be flying and every Constitutional lawyer worth their salt would offer pro bono help. Contra Trump, this route would BOLSTER THE CONSTITUTION greatly through the precedent of removing officials for not upholding their oath of office.

    This is utter, utter BULLSHIT. WIth a capital BULL and a capital SHIT.

    The filing is gibberish, and the only SCOTUS docket it is on is the circular file.

    The blog posting advertising this stupid filing is even worse. Let’s just start with the most obvious piece of bullshit in the whole thing: “When an election has concerns of fraud, constitution allows for a 10 day investigation to look at the potential fraud questions and determine if fraud did or did not occur.” That, of course, is just absolute bullshit. The blogger just made it up. He’s obviously never even glanced at the constitution. And it doesn’t get any better than that.

    This is just stupid and anyone promoting it is even stupider.

      SuddenlyHappyToBeHere in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 11:55 am

      Thanks, Milhouse. You took the words out of my mouth!

      Robert Wright, stop posting. You have no idea what the law is.

      artichoke in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 6:58 pm

      Are you saying the law, under which Pence might have allowed that 10 day period, is unconstitutional?

      If a law comports with the constitution, then the constitution allows for the provisions of that law. And I thought Pence could have called for that review period. The only reason he didn’t is that he didn’t want to.

      I am less sure that he was going against Trump when he did it, though. It feels like yet another good cop / bad cop act between them, with Biden already selected as the one to push the vaxes and surely other agendas.

        Mike Pence had no such authority to call a review period. His authority was obey the Constitutions explicit REQUIREMENTS for what he was REQUIRED to do by law or disobey the Constitution (which frankly would have been a crime).

        The BS has to end it really does. Prof. Jacobson actually went over all of the laws and constitutions text at the time, it is clear as anything could be that Mike Pence was not god for a day.

          Milhouse in reply to Danny. | December 6, 2022 at 9:11 am

          His authority was obey the Constitutions explicit REQUIREMENTS for what he was REQUIRED to do by law

          It’s not as simple as that. The constitution doesn’t say what he is required to do. It simply makes him chairman of the meeting. The Electoral Count Act is what says what he should do if there is a challenge to one or more states’ electors; and Eastman made a not-obviously-wrong argument that that provision is unconstitutional and he should ignore it. Trump accepted that legal advice, and urged it upon Pence; that was right and proper for him to do. But Pence properly sought his own legal advice, from his own lawyer as well as from Michael Luttig and John Yoo, and they all agreed that Eastman was wrong. I think they didn’t give Eastman’s argument enough consideration, but no matter; their legal opinion, which is as eminent as you can get, was that he was wrong, and that Pence had no authority in the matter. Having received that advice, he surely could do nothing but follow it. Trump’s expectation that he would reject his own legal advice and accept that of Trump’s lawyer was utterly pig-headed and unreasonable, and showed the same contempt for the law that he has now openly expressed.

          The underlying problem is that the constitution doesn’t say who shall count the electors’ votes. Had it said that the VP shall count them, then it would be reasonable to argue that he has the authority to decide which votes are valid and should be counted, and which are invalid and should not. Had it said that Congress shall count them, the same would apply to it. But instead all it says is that the votes “shall be counted”, as if by the counting fairies. And it says nothing at all about who decides which votes shall be counted. So even if the ECA is unconstitutional, which I think is likely, that doesn’t give the VP any authority.

        Milhouse in reply to artichoke. | December 6, 2022 at 9:57 am

        My reply to this comment somehow broke away from this thread and established itself as a top-level comment at the bottom. I repeat it here:

        Are you saying the law, under which Pence might have allowed that 10 day period, is unconstitutional?

        1. There is no such law.
        2. Had there been such a law it would be constitutional, but that would not have justified the blogger’s claim that the constitution itself “allows for” such an investigation. “Allow for” does not mean “is consistent with”.
        3. The blogger simply pulled a constitutional provision out of his nether regions. I doubt he has ever read the constitution.

        I thought Pence could have called for that review period.

        He could have called for anything he liked, but he had no explicit authority to order it; the only authority he could claim would be that inherent in his position as chairman of the meeting.
        And the Electoral Count Act strictly limits adjournments of the meeting. It can adjourn until 10 am the next morning (or Monday morning if it’s a Saturday), for up to five days; after that it cannot adjourn at all. And that provision of the ECA is almost certainly constitutional; I can’t think of any argument that it is not. Eastman challenges the constitutionality of the provision that puts the resolution of disputes into Congress’s hands, and in my opinion he’s not obviously wrong. But he doesn’t challenge this provision.

    The Democrats should be required to acknowledge that batch of stupidity you linked to as an in kind contribution.

      Milhouse in reply to Danny. | December 6, 2022 at 9:30 am

      Sigh. This is an error that it seems everyone on every side keeps making. An “in kind contribution” simply means a contribution in some form other than cash. It still has to be a contribution, though. Something given to a specific person or entity. Doing something — even spending cash — that happens to help someone is not a contribution of any kind to that person. Contributions to candidates’ campaigns are regulated and must be declared, whether they’re in the form of cash or in kind. But a campaign need not even keep track of, let alone report, all the things that people do that make its life easier.

Democrats subvert and steal an election and the Liz Cheney of Legal Insurrection is all crickets and tumble weeds.

Donald Trump says something that offends Liz Cheneys feelings and suddenly its all OMG HE MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Some of you so called conservatives need to make your minds up who’s side you are on. Are you with Democrats or against them because every time something like this pops up all I hear is you squealing like stuck pigs that Orange Man Bad said something mean.

    Milhouse in reply to mailman. | December 5, 2022 at 10:38 am

    Donald Trump has declared war on the constitution, and SO HAVE YOU. Trump was never a conservative. If you join him in this call then you have no right to call yourself a conservative either. You are either loyal to the constitution or you are disloyal to it. Trump swore to uphold it and now he wants to tear it up. That is the very opposite of being a conservative.

      Durak Kazyol in reply to Milhouse. | December 5, 2022 at 11:58 am

      “Donald Trump has declared war on the constitution…” Calm, you are getting a bit hysterical. He has done no such thing.

      But just out of curiosity, do you think the Biden admin is upholding the Constitution?

        retiredcantbefired in reply to Durak Kazyol. | December 5, 2022 at 12:49 pm

        Clearly the Biden administration is treating the Constitution like toilet paper.

        And supporting a candidate who has now declared he thinks the Constitution must be treated like toilet paper will defeat them—how?

        Milhouse in reply to Durak Kazyol. | December 6, 2022 at 9:15 am

        Don’t be a durak. No, the Biden admin is not upholding the constitution, when it thinks it can get away with it; but it hasn’t explicitly rejected it. It doesn’t brazenly defy the constitution, and always makes an argument that whatever it wants to do is consistent with the constitution. Those arguments may not always be plausible, but the fact that it makes them means that it recognizes the constitution’s authority. Trump has now openly said he doesn’t give a shit about it, and may disobey it if he likes.

    artichoke in reply to mailman. | December 5, 2022 at 7:00 pm

    I am against the Dem side. That does not mean I am on Trump’s side. And I am the wrong sex, wrong gender, and have the wrong pronouns to represent myself as Liz Cheney (the thought makes me want to puke.)

CBSnews was claiming this morning that Trump’s comments were directly related to the dinner with Ye at Mar-a-lago

Trump met with a man who praises Hitler
and calls Jews termites
Just kidding, that was Obama

Remember his meeting with Louis Farrakhan?

How about his he’s hating pastor of 20 years, Jeremiah Wrong?

Oh, I know, that’s so yesterday….

    CommoChief in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    We pointed out those things then as clear problems. Just as folks are doing now with Ye and Milo and Fuentes.

    You are today in the fall of 2022 still, correctly IMO, pointing out that Obama had connections with race baiting, anti Semitic weirdos.

    It was bad in 2008. It’s bad in 2022. It was bad for Obama to maintain those sorts of associations and it’s bad for DJT to maintain those sorts of associations.

    artichoke in reply to gonzotx. | December 5, 2022 at 7:01 pm

    Nobody’s saying Trump is as bad as Obama. Nor that Ye is, for that matter. That doesn’t mean I think Trump should be the Republican nominee in 2024.

Donald Trump is King of the Trolls! He tweets (er, “truth socials”) a comment sufficiently ambiguous that it can be read as saying 1) he wants to suspend the Constitution, or 2) that if the Dems election treachery is allowed to stand it will subvert the Constitution, or 3) pointing out there’s no obvious Constitutional remedy for what happened.

Abut a 150 comments on usually calm LI, Powerline blew up yesterday with 2,000 plus furious comments coming from all sides. The man knows how to work a crowd!

    Colonel Travis in reply to Durak Kazyol. | December 5, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    I would be better if he could unify the crowd. Unlike 2016, he’s not doing that.

      Durak Kazyol in reply to Colonel Travis. | December 5, 2022 at 1:42 pm

      I’m increasingly doubtful the anti-Dem crowd can be unified, and the reaction to Trump’s off-the-cuff comment reveals this. Quite literally, he poses rhetorical questions. Everyone now is subjecting them them to absurdly close scrutiny – some conclude he’s saying our Constitutional order is finished, some same he’s calling for its violent overthrow, some say he’s pointing out that’s what the Demas are doing… no one has any interest in actual solutions. The DOJ, FBI, CIA, DNC, MSM, Twitter, Google, et al. engaged in a conspiracy to subvert the president and rig the election. What will we do about it? The crowd is one the verge of madness because it seems unsolvable.

      I guess debating Trump is as good as response as any, since I have no idea what to do.

        Colonel Travis in reply to Durak Kazyol. | December 5, 2022 at 3:34 pm

        Sorry, by crowd I mean his 2016 and 2020 voters. He will never unify anyone else.

        States could stop mail in voting. States could stop election season. States could stop counting season. That’s a start, and it doesn’t require chucking the Constitution out the window. What Trump doesn’t understand, however, is that blue states aren’t going to change those rules.

        Everyone, including Trump, is looking at the problem at the election end. That needs to be fixed, but it’s also not where the fundamental problems are. This country is rotten to the core. Bad elections are only a symptom of that rot. Until the entire culture changes, this is what we have. I don’t see it getting better in my lifetime.

          artichoke in reply to Colonel Travis. | December 5, 2022 at 7:03 pm

          He’s lost his 2016 and 2020 base by his screwing over his J6 supporters. There’s no cure for this, just pick another candidate. Also he’s losing his grip mentally, pick someone who hasn’t seen his 70’s!

      Nobody can unify this crowd, when the hate is so deep. Funny, how they can get along with the Progressive left, but not the people who support Trump. I don’t see any name calling against the left.

        artichoke in reply to wendybar. | December 5, 2022 at 7:06 pm

        I think DeSantis could unify them. It doesn’t have to be Trump. It does have to be someone trustworthy, and DeSantis hasn’t forfeited that. Maybe other Republicans as well, we’ll see who emerges.

        We (I include myself in that base) don’t need exactly Trump. We need the freedom from the same old corruption that we hoped for, and got for a while, from his presidency. He can have a successor.

    Milhouse in reply to Durak Kazyol. | December 6, 2022 at 9:32 am

    His claim is not at all ambiguous. It cannot be read any way but that he considers the constitution to be a piece of paper of no authority.

Fuzzy, I made a post here yesterday. Did you delete it or place it on hold. If so, why?

    Hi Gary, I checked, but I don’t see anything by you that was spammed or sent to trash, so my guess is that your comment was a response to someone making ad hominem attacks against our readers, advocating violence, being racist, posting other sites’s articles, or something else against LI comment policy.

    Once a comment is removed, all replies to that comment are no longer visible. I wish it wasn’t that way, but the comment system we have has no way to show a reply to a removed comment under which it is embedded. Maybe repost your comment at the end or in response to a comment that contains none of the above listed reasons for removal?

Constitutional law is constantly limiting or setting aside various constitutional provisions when they come in conflict with others. Want to know what constitutional provision by its wording expressly takes precedence over every other provision in the constitution? That’s the article 4 section for guarantee to the states that they each shall have a republican form of government, the only guarantee in the entire Constitution.

As stated by Alexander Hamilton in the New York debates, and as affirmed repeatedly by the Supreme Court, republicanism means first and foremost that “the people shall choose who shall represent them.”

A stolen election, stealing the peoples’ choice from them, is the epitome of an unrepublican form government. When it can be ascertained that massive election fraud turned a clear victory for one side into a victory for the other, the republican guarantee is violated, and this already has been proven about the 2020 election, thanks to the heroic work of True the Vote.

Just the one narrow slice of Democrat vote fraud that they were able to document — 2000 mules stuffing ballot drop-boxes in five key counties — was enough to steal five key states, turning an Electoral College landslide for Trump into an illegitimate “victory” for Biden.

As the only guarantee in the Constitution, the Republican guarantee must take precedence over every other constitutional provision, and this is obviously appropriate: that our form of government itself must be protected first, that the rest of the Constitution is moot if we lose this.

The guarantee clause is stated to apply to the states, but notice who the constitution empowers to run elections: the states. Any state that administers a stolen election has administered the defining unrepublican act, violating the republican guarantee and warranting the setting aside of up to every other constitutional provision as needed to restore our republican form of government.

Trump again is the only one who seems to understand what a republican form of government means. This is happened several times.

When it turned out that Hillary had destroyed her 33,000 subpoenaed emails, and it was likely, since the emails had been held on a private server, that multiple foreign powers, including enemies and rivals, had copies, Trump suggested in off-the-cuff remarks that if Russia had a copy they should publish them.

Absolutely right. All the reasons for not publishing them – – that our enemies and rivals might see what was in them – – would already at that point be mooted and the only thing that would be accomplished by the emails not being published is that the American people would not see the documentation of Hillary’s crimes that were the reason for her using a private server in the first place.

(Hillary’s crimes were the same as Biden’s crimes: selling American foreign policy to the highest bidder for personal gain, including an already known half a billion dollars just for allowing Russia to acquire Uranium One.)

Remember the baying from both sides? Calling Trump’s suggestion treasonous or close to it? Only Trump instinctively understood that what matters in our form of government is voter sovereignty. The information needed to make sound choices cannot be withheld from the sovereign except in the most limited way, meaning of course that national security cannot be used as an excuse for witholding information from the electorate when our enemies already have it.

Trump also was targeting Civil Service laws, which prevent The People from throwing out the vast majority of the bums who govern them, in violation of fundamental republicanism. We must always be able to throw the bums out, and Trump shouldn’t be the only one to understand that.

Now he’s right again, and the vast majority of our political pundits and our lawyers, not just those on the left, are shaming themselves for eternity.

    AlecRawls in reply to AlecRawls. | December 5, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    Trump does not know that the constitutional guarantee of a republican form of government exists but he acts as if it does. Our lawyers know full well that this constitutional guarantee exists but act as if it doesn’t. I will take Trump over our failed lawyers every day of the week.

    Dr Jacobson: can you please be the first lawyer in America to wake up to this existential travesty? You do so much great work, it seems impossible to ask more of you, but this is more important than anything else, It’s the critical tip of the most important spear. As economists explain diminishing marginal utility: it’s the first glass of water in the desert that matters most, and that’s exactly where we are.

    Even granting everything that you said – so what? Trump is like a corporate CEO who has great vision of what matters and where the company should go, but hires bad people, can’t get anything done and the company goes under.

    Virtually all of his problems in office and not getting re-elected were due to two things. He picked poor people, failing to drain the swamp – Sessions, Rosenstein, Barr, Wray, etc. Just the four named led to the Mueller investigation and failure to take action on the Hunter laptop, received a year before the 2020 election. The second thing was listening to Fauci et al and locking the country down, leading to a real mess plus the mail-in ballot garbage – that he did not respond to in his own campaign. He allowed himself to be beaten. Trump also was also largely responsible for the loss of both Senate seats in GA in 2020, leading to Biden’s legislative catastrophe.

    Since 2020 name one thing he did as leader of the party to be sure Republicans responded in kind on mail-in balloting in 2022. As of now, Herschel Walker is over 200K ballots behind on mail-in voting in GA.

    To get back to the first paragraph, Trump really did talk a good game, but IMO is tactically inept and incapable of change. This country needs a Republican winner in 2024. Without that we have nothing.

      mailman in reply to jb4. | December 5, 2022 at 4:16 pm

      Then you absolutely deserve your Democrat overlords 😂😂

        CommoChief in reply to mailman. | December 5, 2022 at 9:09 pm

        You Only Trump folks seem to be telling us that if we don’t support Trump in ’24, despite supporting him in ’16 and ’20, we are now classified as apostates who …what exactly? Do we need to be cleansed and purified by fire?

        Get a grip man.

    Milhouse in reply to AlecRawls. | December 6, 2022 at 9:47 am

    1. The republican guarantee clause does not override any other part of the constitution.

    2. That clause is not justiciable, and is up to the political branches to enforce.

    3. That clause is irrelevant here, because it relates only and exclusively to the form of government that the states have. It has no connection to an election a state happens to run to choose its US presidential electors.

    4. The “2000 mules” are a supposition; there is no evidence that they actually existed.

    5. Yes, Trump’s jesting call for Russia to publish Clinton’s emails, on the presumption that it had them, was not any kind of crime. The only basis on which it could have been a crime would have been had Russia not already had the emails, and he was calling on them to steal them at that time. But of course that would have been impossible, because they’d already been wiped. If the Russians didn’t already have them there was no way they could get them. So the whole fuss about that was contrived, and I said so repeatedly at the time.

      AlecRawls in reply to Milhouse. | December 6, 2022 at 7:34 pm

      The reason Justice Brennan opined that the republican guarantee is non-justiciable is because he could not figure out what republicanism meant, but earlier precedents had already recognized Hamilton’s definition: that republicanism means first and foremost that “the people shall choose who shall govern them,” which the Court has termed “voter sovereignty,” and in political discussion has often been called “popular sovereignty.”

      As I noted above, stolen elections are the epitome of denying people their choice of who shall govern them. Brennan was idiotically wrong when he opined that it was unlikely that “judicially discoverable and manageable standards” of what republicanism means could be located, but he did leave the door open to that possibility, even as he was somehow unaware of the fact that obvious such standards had already been discovered and embraced.

      A state government that enables and allows stolen elections is an unrepublican form of government, and all elections are run by the states, thus elections by these states can indeed be voided by the guarantee clause. That clause sanctions acts of war against the emergence of unrepublican forms of government, but Milhouse thinks it can’t void their elections? We can war against them but we have to respect their elections?

      The rationale for the republican guarantee was not just to protect the citizens of a state from falling under the tyranny of an unrepublican state government. It was also because the emergence of unrepublican state governments would work to undermine the republican nature of the Union, of “The United States,” meaning first of all the federal government, and this is exactly what has happened. Stolen elections in five states succeeded in stealing the presidency of the Union.

      Milhouse’s suggestion that this most important constitutional protection cannot overrule other parts of the Constitution is non-sensical. A guarantee is a “whatever it takes,” provision, or the guarantee fails to be a guarantee. Does Milhouse not understand the meaning of words?

      At least he understands that Trump did nothing wrong in urging Russia to publish Hillary’s emails. Thanks Milhouse, but the point goes much further than that. Trump was right. The voters needed to know about Hillary’s crimes. In our system of government that is the most important thing.

      Ditto Biden’s crimes (via Hunter’s laptop). The FBI’s cover-up of Biden’s crimes is another epitome of unrepublican government, denying the sovereignty of the people by denying these sovereign’s the information they must have if their will is to be accurately expressed through the electoral process.

      Trump is a genuine instinctive small “r” republican, a genuine man of The People. He’s the greatest small “r” republican president we have ever had, which makes the “he a threat to our democracy” all the more insane. Fighting for election integrity is the epitome of being the small “d” democrat that republican democracy requires.

Trump is getting to be more and more like Mike Lindell, or maybe vice versa.

Nevertheless, both of them are boring, yesterday’s news, and are generally branded as whiny losers.

Trump posted this on Truth Social in response to the response to his earlier comment. Talk about weaselly double-speak. “I didn’t say it, but I really did.”

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/109462304115605769
The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to “terminate” the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is “MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,” as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!

Fine everyone, let the Marxists rule, open the Gulags and start burying te tens of thousands murdered

    Milhouse in reply to Skip. | December 6, 2022 at 9:53 am

    Trump is the one calling for the constitution to be thrown out. That is the only path to Gulags.

The Marxists screamed and cried there was no fraud so they could do it in 2022 and will again in 2024.
Run who you want but a Democrat will win, it’s rigged

Are you saying the law, under which Pence might have allowed that 10 day period, is unconstitutional?

1. There is no such law.

2. Had there been such a law it would be constitutional, but that would not have justified the blogger’s claim that the constitution itself “allows for” such an investigation. “Allow for” does not mean “is consistent with”.

3. The blogger simply pulled a constitutional provision out of his nether regions. I doubt he has ever read the constitution.

I thought Pence could have called for that review period.

He could have called for anything he liked, but he had no explicit authority to order it; the only authority he could claim would be that inherent in his position as chairman of the meeting.

And the Electoral Count Act strictly limits adjournments of the meeting. It can adjourn until 10 am the next morning (or Monday morning if it’s a Saturday), for up to five days; after that it cannot adjourn at all. And that provision of the ECA is almost certainly constitutional; I can’t think of any argument that it is not. Eastman challenges the constitutionality of the provision that puts the resolution of disputes into Congress’s hands, and in my opinion he’s not obviously wrong. But he doesn’t challenge this provision.

I thought I wanted to write a long diatribe, but I just can’t overcome my disappointment. For the first time since I’ve started to read this site, I’m truly ashamed of an article this site has put out. This article is on par with the typical anti-Trump drivel being written by the MSM. @Fuzzy Slippers, why don’t you submit your article to the J6 commission? I’m sure they will take it as further evidence of Trump’s insurrection.

    Danny in reply to c0cac0la. | December 6, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    Trump is to blame for what he put out.

    The statement was objectively appalling and turned what should have been a great point for us into a defeat as Democrats pounced on this and made us look atrocious.

    By the way this tweet will be used by the special prosecutor.

    I’m a bit confused. The post contains Trump’s own words, what about it is drivel? It’s so odd to me that Trump’s remaining supporters are starting to sound like the radical left berating Libs of TikTok for posting their own words.

    As to J6, I have been very very clear where I stand on that, and I have no idea why you think Trump’s own words are fodder for that commission . . . oh, wait, you’re right. He’s walking right into their trap. But that has zero to do with me. Again, I simply posted Trump’s own words.

Doublebroadside | December 6, 2022 at 9:59 am

No, Trump did not call for overthrowing the Constitution. He has since extended his remarks to clarify his meaning, but lots of us already had read his words correctly. It has been frustrating to see admirable people like Fuzzy Slippers miss the mark.

Sarah Hoyt at InstaPundit got it right.

Hers is also my take on his outburst.

The election(s) [2020 in particular, in this conversation] were stolen under color of *law*.

Trump is pointing out “what’s the remedy for system-wide legalized election theft by the powers in charge?”

The outrage from the Right at Trump’s questions plays into Saul Alinsky’s trap: Force your enemies to fight by their own principles and rules (or else be labeled shameful hypocrites) — while you remain FREE of all those rules and principles — and be confident your enemies will fall for it every time! Your victories over them will roll on until they and their principles are ground into the dust under your boots.

Sarah Hoyt got to the nub:
https://instapundit.com/557332/

    I don’t care that he clarified that he didn’t mean what he said I really truly don’t, I don’t care that he speaks in hyperbole because guess what?

    To win the presidency you need to win over something called voters and things like this ALIENATED VOTERS and turned a VICTORY into a DEFEAT (italics option for emphasis would be helpful).

    The statement was frankly appalling which is why Trump “clarified” but the politics was worst.

    He turned a victory of Elon Musk releasing the twitter files into a defeat with that tweet.

    He turned 2022 from red wave to defeat to.

    This routine self inflicted defeats is what awaits a Trump nomination, and we would be lucky to get Trump’s normal 46% of the vote.

    Forget Alinsky and every other talking point Trump is not electable and his behavior routinely inflicts HARM on OUR side.

      His “clarification” raised more questions than it answered. He is still insisting on an unconstitutional remedy, and it’s not going to happen.

      Also, I am completely over Trump’s inability to say what he means. Over. It. I spent four years blogging about how he didn’t mean this and he didn’t say that. If you have to go to the comment section of a blog to find out what he said/meant from some random Trump whisperer, then he is an ineffective communicator. Period.

      Attacking the Constitution was the last straw for many people (I’d already experienced my last straw with his antics just before midterms and the abysmal showing of his hand-picked candidates). It’s one thing to have to clarify that he didn’t tell people to inject Clorox into their veins or call actual neoNazis “very fine people,” but it’s quite another to defend him saying we need to terminate the Constitution to right a wrong perpetrated against him. Nope. That’s a bridge far too far.

        healthguyfsu in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | December 6, 2022 at 1:52 pm

        Yes…over the “3-D chess” that is, in actually, an upside down trainwreck of messaging and revolving door of yes men and unqualified hacks.

It’s just cute that many of you actually think we are following the constitution at all.
It has not been followed for years. It’s been thrown out by the marxist left including the republicans.
The 2020 election was stolen. The convoluted twisting some of you go through to say it wasn’t is laughable.

The “elected” officials in this government are almost all corrupt to the core and violating the constitution every single day, and you dolts say nothing, not a damn word.

The DOJ, FIB, and the intelligence agencies all illegally and extra constitutionally conspired to bring down a sitting president and when they didn’t manage to do that they conspired and did steal the 2020 election. The democrat and republican parties were part and parcel to all of this.

And you pretend we have a constitution and when the rightful president of the USA points this out you all get your panties in a wad.

You should all be ashamed but I doubt most of you are even bright enough to know the constitution has been rendered to toilet paper and it is you that are responsible. You allow it, you own it.

“Legal Insurrection”

The place needs to be renamed to “Marxist Support Group”.

What is coming is full blown marxist/fascist/communism and you are all going to stand by and debate the words of Trump as he points out the perils of allowing stolen elections.

I suspect the founders knew what the remedy for this crap is, having had the fortitude to carry it out very recently. They chose not to be slaves while you choose to not only be slaves but thank your slavers for the opportunity while blasting those that might stand in the way.

    Barry, there are constitutional ways to address these problems. Legislation. Even a new amendment to the Constitution. Simply “terminating” (Trump’s term, not mine) any part of it is NOT an option.

    Why don’t you focus on constitutional means to fight back instead of calling people who voted for Trump (twice) Marxists. That might make you feel better, but it changes nothing.

      That’s real cute Fuzzy. The constitution has already been terminated, but you apparently have missed it.

      There is no “constitutional means to fight back”. I made that clear enough above. The founders knew what the remedy was and chose not to put something more in the constitution itself. Why, because once the constitution is shredded any remedy written in is shredded with it.

      Maybe you should try reading outside the small circle of deep state marxist enablers and figure out what we really have and where we’re headed, and that you and all the other republican support personnel are the reason why.

      You can only find a reaction when the one person in my lifetime that tried to fight back and had the means to do it, tells the truth. The truth bothers you and you’ll spend hours composing messages to deny the truth and tar the truth tellers.

      When will you discuss the stolen elections, the illegal and corrupt FBI/DOJ/CIA, the corrupt investigations into Trump, the false testimony given by the FBI at the top levels at every turn, the corrupt and illegal seizure of records at Mar a Lago? When will you be as outraged by our own “government” as you are by Trump telling the truth? You call people like Trump “losers”.

      Enjoy your chains. You’ll be able to tell your enslaved grandchildren how you helped fight back against that bad orange man.

    Milhouse in reply to Barry. | December 6, 2022 at 5:20 pm

    You know what, Barry, you’re right. You’ve sussed us out all right. This is indeed a Marxist conspiracy site. We’re all secret Marxists here, especially Prof J — remember that he went to study in the USSR, just like Bill Clinton! So now you know the truth, like any self-respecting Trumpalo (is there such a thing?) you should go away and not associate with the likes of us. Please.

Once it becomes acceptable to overlook the guides to a well managed, that is, a fair, election, what are you left with?