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‘Secession’ on Ballots in One California County on Nov. 8

‘Secession’ on Ballots in One California County on Nov. 8

Two Oregon counties are set to vote on measure to secede to join Idaho.

One California county is tired of being over-taxed and under-represented by Sacramento. So, its Board of Supervisors has placed a measure on the Nov. 8th ballot that has secession from the state as an option.

A consortium in San Bernardino is the latest group of people proposing to alter the boundaries of the state of California. The group wants the county to secede from California and create a 51st state that would be called Empire.

According to real estate developer Jeff Burum, a member of the group, San Bernardino County is not getting its fair share from the state of California. The movement is supported by some local mayors such as Acquanetta Warren, mayor of Fontana, and Bill Velto, mayor of Upland.

“We cannot continue to beg, and crawl … to get resources for our county… Let’s step out and be bold about it and let the people decide what they want to do.” Fontana Mayor Acquanetta Warren told the San Bernadino Board of Supervisors.

As of right now, secession is more of a consequence than a goal.

“I’m going to continue to say this every time I talk to anyone and I’m interviewed: (California) is the best state of the union,” said Jeff Burum, the Rancho Cucamonga real estate developer who first introduced the idea that turned into Measure EE on the Nov. 8 ballot.

“I would never willfully want to leave this state,” Burum continued. “But I can tell you this, if you’re just going to continue to abuse me and abuse us, sometimes you don’t have a choice but to stand up for yourself.”

Burum and others, such as Board of Supervisors Chairman Curt Hagman, say Measure EE is about political and economic fairness for the largest county in the United States and one of the fastest-growing areas in the nation.

“Do you want to spend our taxpayer dollars to do a study of what we are, or are not getting, as a county, and then fight for that, in a way we haven’t done before?” Board of Supervisors Chairman Curt Hagman asked his fellow board members at their Aug. 3 meeting.

Meanwhile, voters in Eastern Oregon in two counties will have a chance to vote on whether they should secede and join neighboring Idaho.

The movement has already gained support from residents in nine Eastern Oregon counties, with those in two others set to vote next month on whether they want their lawmakers to work on redrawing the border.

State legislatures of both Idaho and Oregon would also have to sign off on the plan before it goes forward to the United States Congress.

Doing so makes sense, spokesman Matt McCaw argues, because Idaho’s politics more closely match those residents’ conservative views.

‘It makes more sense for Eastern Oregonians to get state-level governance coming from Idaho, where they share their values, share their culture, share their politics, than it does to be governed by Western Oregon,’ he told FOX News Digital on Thursday.

I reported on the “Greater Idaho” movement previously. It appears it is gaining a considerable amount of support.

The results of both ballot measures should make for additional, interesting analysis on Nov.8th.

Here’s hoping voters can at least make Greater Idaho happen!

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Comments

Here’s hoping voters can at least make Greater Idaho happen!

It’s kind of a Catch-22. In order to succeed they need a majority in their state legislature. Well, if they have a majority in the state legislature the legislatures can fix what these people don’t like make succession pointless.

    CommoChief in reply to NotCoach. | October 17, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    They need a majority in the legislature to vote to allow them to leave/ be expelled which is a different animal. After all why would the enlightened, virtuous progressives want to keep these ‘deplorable, bible thumping, gun clutching folks’ in their State?

    Surely these progressives wouldn’t be so nakedly politically crass as to keep them in CA just to retain the population for the Census count and Congressional apportionment or federal funding? /S

      UnCivilServant in reply to CommoChief. | October 17, 2022 at 12:30 pm

      Oh, nothing like that.

      They’ll keep them to avoid two more senators reliably against them.

        CommoChief in reply to UnCivilServant. | October 17, 2022 at 1:46 pm

        Exactly, crass political implications of another sort.

        BierceAmbrose in reply to UnCivilServant. | October 17, 2022 at 2:12 pm

        Different if they join an existing state. Doesn’t change the senate.

        Adding new states has been contentious, political deal-making since the run-up to the civil war, at least. Is there a protocol for reallocating territory among them? AFAIK that’s absent art or precedent.

        Didn’t PA grab a chunk of NY back in the day, to get themselves connected to the Great Lakes, too. How did that happen?

          NotCoach in reply to BierceAmbrose. | October 17, 2022 at 2:51 pm

          It has happened, both peacefully and not. Maine used to be part of Massachusetts, but was separated out to equalize slave and non-slave states. And West Virginia became its own state after refusing to secede with the rest of Virginia.

          Section. 3.
          New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

          The ability to swap land would come under this. Two state legislatures then congress approve, it’s done.

          It could be argued that Virginia had a legitimate claim to reincorporate WV into it’s territory. I don’t think any Virginia legislature approved splitting WV off. Not even after the fact.

          BierceAmbrose in reply to BierceAmbrose. | October 18, 2022 at 3:30 pm

          Thanks, go. That’s interesting. I wonder what one can cram into, or more interesting exclude, from that word “new.” If it’s borders change, is it a new state?

          Interesting how the territories potentially allocating themselves don’t get a vote. It’s the states and congress. Some county wants to switch overlords, not specified.

          Do the rules change if you get invaded and annexed first? Asking for the US red states, who have more of the guns, so…

          It could be argued that Virginia had a legitimate claim to reincorporate WV into it’s territory. I don’t think any Virginia legislature approved splitting WV off. Not even after the fact.

          Not so. WV’s secession was approved by what the USA recognized as the legitimate VA legislature, which sat in Wheeling until WV was created, and then moved to Alexandria.

      Idonttweet in reply to CommoChief. | October 17, 2022 at 5:24 pm

      Think of the tax money the county represents. Do you really think the state will willingly let that money go somewhere else?

      gonzotx in reply to CommoChief. | October 18, 2022 at 10:26 am

      For their money!

      RandomCrank in reply to CommoChief. | October 18, 2022 at 7:07 pm

      It would require majorities in BOTH legislatures, then congressional assent. I haven’t seen any sign that anyone has asked Idaho about it. There’s a reason for that. At least with respect to Oregon, the Idaho legislature would have to be stark raving nuts to take Eastern Oregon and its inadequate tax base.

      From Idaho’s viewpoint (and hey, it takes two states for this), taking Eastern Oregon would be like drinking at the office Christmas party: All downside risk. No one has ever even attempted to ask, let alone answer, a salient question: “What’s in it for Idaho?” I really don’t think “40,000 square miles of sagebrush” is going to too persuasive.

That’s really great.

It will never happen but its a nice dream to have.

Fontana mayor Acquanetta…

I thought that name was an urban myth, like Orangejello and Lemonjello.

The Gentle Grizzly | October 17, 2022 at 12:36 pm

The group wants the county to secede from California and create a 51st state that would be called Empire.

Will they move that big building to the Empire State?

Greater Idaho | October 17, 2022 at 1:05 pm

You can learn more and join the movement at https://www.greateridaho.org . We’re raising funds to hire lobbyists for the upcoming sessions of the state legislatures.

    RandomCrank in reply to Greater Idaho. | October 18, 2022 at 7:10 pm

    Why would Idaho ever want it? I could imagine they’d be okay taking eastern WA, but eastern OR? What possible attraction? I strongly doubt that “40,000 sq mi of sagebrush” is going to seal any deal.

Otto Kringelein | October 17, 2022 at 1:18 pm

The group wants the county to secede from California and create a 51st state that would be called Empire.

Sorry, taint that easy. You need federal government permission (ie Congressional approval) before adding a state to the existing 50 state Republic. Can’t do it on your own. It’s right there in the Constitution.

Source:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiv#section3

    SeiteiSouther in reply to Otto Kringelein. | October 17, 2022 at 1:50 pm

    Not to mention, I don’t think the states will allow a dilution of their individual power. So this is a no go.

      RandomCrank in reply to SeiteiSouther. | October 18, 2022 at 7:11 pm

      If I were in the Oregon legislature, I’d be ever so happy to bid sayonara to eastern Oregon, which is a net drain on state finances. I’d do everything I could to sell the idea to Idaho, but I really don’t think Idaho is quite that stupid.

The only succession from a state I recall is West Virginia – which happened during the civil war. I doubt the confederate Virginia voted to approve succession of the union WV. Are there other cases?

Few decades back liberal NYC threatened to succeed from upstate NY (this was before NY republicans became an endangered species). As an upstater I would have been glad to let them go. Don’t recall any need to have the rest of the state approve – just the part succeeding and congress.

Really there should be an upper pop limit to a state – maybe 20x the least populated state? – to eliminate the Mega states we currently have. Is it really fair for 1 Utah resident to have the same senate representation as (say) 40 NY residents?

    BierceAmbrose in reply to BobM. | October 17, 2022 at 2:08 pm

    Hi Bob.

    You doubtless recall the periodic secession movements from upstate itself. They say we suck, but they won’t let us go.

    Downstate’s back-peddling from their secession threat was hysterical. As soon as the buzz went “Say when.” they weren’t so keen to leave.

    Curious, that…

      Ironclaw in reply to BierceAmbrose. | October 17, 2022 at 3:41 pm

      If they let you go, they’d lose all that tax money they steal every year.

        BierceAmbrose in reply to Ironclaw. | October 18, 2022 at 3:33 pm

        Mostly proles to feel superior to. They do love lording themselves over us: just leave us alone never flies.

        One law for them, another for… like as Uber n so on were spinning up. NYC let them operate right away, while upstate was held up by the state, not local govts. Not safe. Are they insured. But the cool kids in Brooklyn were, apparently expendable. Or maybe they just vote reliably for these overlords, so must be coddled.

        BierceAmbrose in reply to Ironclaw. | October 18, 2022 at 3:38 pm

        Oh, they’re more subtle than that. You can find tons of “analysis” that more money moves from downstate to upstate than the other way. As with elections, it depends on what you count.

        Again with the Uber n similar company self-dealing. Downstate doesn’t get money, directly. BUT, the insurance lobby in NY state are massive political donors, and skewed, well, to the NY monopoly party. So, upstate gets no Uber until Don Andrew could figure out how his insurance clients would get a rake off. Since downstate is the voting block, they’re exempt from the discomfort — they get their ride share operations immediately.

    CommoChief in reply to BobM. | October 17, 2022 at 7:45 pm

    Senators are supposed to represent the interests of the State. One of the more effective reforms we could make is repeal of the 17th amendment. How so? Some claim campaign contributions subvert our system. Well eliminating 100 statewide political races gets rid of that aspect for one half our bicameral Congress. This also returns power to the State legislature in selecting a Senator to send to DC. That brings more focus to local legislative races and who we choose to send to our State Capital. It lowers the temp a bit at the national level.

    If you want to have a do over of the Union for questions of fairness related to the Senate then I am all for it. My starting point is square one. Dissolve the Union, create a new Constitution, get as many independent and Sovereign States to sign on as you can. How about it?

      “repeal of the 17th amendment”

      Yep, the direct election of the senators per the 17th reduced the power of the states. It should be repealed.

    Milhouse in reply to BobM. | October 19, 2022 at 12:47 am

    The only succession from a state I recall is West Virginia – which happened during the civil war. I doubt the confederate Virginia voted to approve succession of the union WV. Are there other cases?

    Confederate VA didn’t vote to approve it, but Unionist VA did. The Restored Government of Virginia operated throughout the Civil War in that part of VA that was occupied by the union. It was recognized by the USA as the legitimate state government. Its seat was originally in Wheeling, and then in Alexandria. And its legislature voted to approve the creation of WV.

You know, if those counties join Idaho, it will bulge out to the west about like it bulges to the east under Montana….
Which will make it look like an extremely rude but popular American gesture. Which actually makes it more attractive to some Americans….

    r2468 in reply to GWB. | October 17, 2022 at 3:16 pm

    As long as the finger points directly at Justine “Castro“ Trudeau and not Canada in general.

BierceAmbrose | October 17, 2022 at 2:14 pm

What if Idaho annexes them? “We declare it’s ours, now.” seems sufficient argument elsewhere.

Do they have to invade first? Generate unrest and prop-up an ersatz populist movement? Declare it’s ethnic?

Potato Association of America covertly arranges a Color Revolution in 3…2…

I wish these folks the best of luck, though I don’t see much hope of their success.

Subotai Bahadur | October 17, 2022 at 6:03 pm

When is the last time that a Democrat ruled polity in this country gave an obese rodent’s glut‘s about how the people wanted to be governed if any change would diminish the power of Democrats?

There is no electoral political process that could bring this about.

Subotai Bahadur

I’m a little surprised that several Washington state counties are not part of this movement. They too are burdened by leftist state legislatures.

    RandomCrank in reply to Guardian79. | October 18, 2022 at 7:02 pm

    I live in WA State, east of the mountains. I despise Olympia, but why would I prefer Boise? No income tax here, but 6.5% there. Sales tax in my county is 7%. In Idaho it’s 6.5%. Why on earth would I want to pay extra to be subjugated by Boise?

It makes more sense to redraw state boundaries than to have eventually an armed conflict. “When in the course of human events…….” still matters.

Disclaimer: I live in the Southeast US, in one of the “modern cities of the new south” and have no skin in the game.

The beauty of joining another existing state, rather than seceding to form a 51st state is that the US Senate doesn’t change: One state would lose a seat (or a few seats) in the House of Representatives while the recipient of the new voters would gain the like number. And it probably wouldn’t happen until the next Census.

So for some of the 51st state movements (Western Maryland, I’m looking directly at you!). voting to move into West Virginia is a smarter gambit.

For those of you who’ve never read or glanced at Colin Woodward’s excellent book, American Nations: A History of the 11 Rival Regional Cultures of North America, it is EYE-OPENING on the cultural differences that we knew were there all along. (For an extremely abridged view, read this article: https://now.tufts.edu/2014/01/27/arms, has a map – by counties – and gives a VERY SHORT cultural description of each of the nations.

A friend sent me the article listed above. My reply to him was “I couldn’t explain the reasons why, but I could have drawn you a map separating the liberals from conservatives that would have been accurate to within 2 counties.”

San Bernadino County would be an exclave. It would never happen. As for E Oregon, it won’t happen because Idaho wouldn’t allow it even if Oregon did. If you’re Idaho, E Oregon would be nothing but a burden. The tax base isn’t there.

The inclusion of another 200,000 people would expand Idaho’s population by 11%, and in the process would shake up the existing order in Boise. On the Oregon side, the decline in income tax from 11% to 6.5% would be fully offset by Idaho’s 6% sales tax vs. Oregon’s no sales tax.

These referenda are nothing more than crankiness. The logic isn’t there, and if the intended result ever looked possible all concerned would drop the idea. It’s a lose-lose proposition.

Back in the 70s I lived in both eastern WA and eastern OR. The separatists were then more grandiose as they wanted to have eastern WA and OR join with Idaho to form a new nation that would be free of DC’s control (such as BLM (Bureau of Land Management)). Even western OR had a movement that urged Oregonians to not allow their state to be Californicated. I doubt that the new secessionist movement will be any more successful than we’re their 70s predecessors.