Most Read
Image 01 Image 02 Image 03

Visa, Mastercard, AmEx Categorizing Gun Sales in New Merchant Category

Visa, Mastercard, AmEx Categorizing Gun Sales in New Merchant Category

Democrats, including Sen. Warren, pressured the three payment processors to do this, calling it “an important step towards ending financial system support for gun trafficking, gun violence, and domestic terrorism.”

Visa has joined Mastercard and American Express by applying the International Organization for Standeration’s (IOS) new merchant code to categorize gun sales in gun shops.

From Fox Business:

The new IOS code was announced on Friday. Previously, gun store sales were labeled as “general merchandise.”

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” Visa said in a statement.

The move by Visa signals a major victory for gun control advocates who argue that a separate category for gun store sales will help track suspicious quantities of firearm sales that could potentially lead to a mass shooting.

Gun sales at “big-box retailers” will not fall under the category.

The three payment processors also heard from Democratic lawmakers and the New York and California attorney generals. From The Wall Street Journal:

Earlier this month, Democratic lawmakers wrote to Visa, Mastercard and Amex pushing for the implementation of a new MCC for gun and ammunition sellers, citing recent examples of credit cards being used to buy guns that were later used in mass shootings.

A new code for gun retailers would be “an important step towards ending financial system support for gun trafficking, gun violence, and domestic terrorism,” Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Pennsylvania Rep. Madeleine Dean wrote in a letter signed by dozens of other lawmakers.

The attorneys general of New York and California recently asked the card networks to begin tracking gun sales and flagging suspicious purchases to law enforcement. Financial companies already report potential money laundering and other kinds of criminal activity, they wrote in letters to the three companies, and should do the same for suspicious gun sales.

There are merchant category codes “for nearly every type of purchase, including those at supermarkets, clothing stores, coffee shops and other retailers.”

NYC Mayor Eric Adams said, “When you buy an airline ticket or pay for your groceries, your credit card company has a special code for those retailers. It’s just common sense that we have the same policies in place for gun and ammunition stores.”

So is it to make it easier on the three payment processors and the banks? Because it sounds like Adams is trying to move away from what his fellow Democrats said about having a new code.

Also, why exclude the big retailers? Won’t that just push people to purchase their guns and ammunition at those stores?

Gun rights advocates denounced the move:

However, gun rights advocates contest that tracking gun store sales would target legal gun purchases because merchant codes only label the type of merchant where the credit or debit card is used, not the specific items. The purchase of a gun safe, for example, could be seen as a large purchase at a gun shop since the item can be bought for thousands of dollars. But a gun safe is a product considered to be part of responsible gun ownership.

“The [industry’s] decision to create a firearm-specific code is nothing more than a capitulation to anti-gun politicians and activists bent on eroding the rights of law-abiding Americans one transaction at a time,” National Rifle Association spokesman Lars Dalseide said.

DONATE

Donations tax deductible
to the full extent allowed by law.

Comments

There’s your illegla list of gun owners.

    So question becomes, who has standing to challenge this in court? Because it certainly seems like coordination to create an illegal registry.

    Do the stores have standing to challenge it? Do the customers? Is it a possible class action?

    We already know the tech cartels have been willing to do censorship for the government, where it was not lawful for the government to do so, so it seems just as likely that this is another attempt by government agencies to circumvent the law through getting corporations to do it for them and give them the results.

      healthguyfsu in reply to Voyager. | September 12, 2022 at 6:24 pm

      The person who pays is not necessarily the owner. It’s disturbing, but it is not necessarily an illegal registry.

      You can also pay in cash or check.

        Colonel Travis in reply to healthguyfsu. | September 12, 2022 at 6:35 pm

        This is bad. It is leading the way to a registry, it is also leading the way to cutting off your credit because some pencil pusher says so. Do you know who was responsible for initiating this? Was it Ted Cruz? Donald Trump? No, it was leftists.

        I do not understand the complacency over tyranny.

          mbecker908 in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 12, 2022 at 8:44 pm

          Hate to break it to you, the ATF already has a gun registry. Every time a background check is run they log it. It’s certainly illegal, but who is going to stop them? Certainly not the Republican leadership.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 12, 2022 at 8:52 pm

          mbecker908 – I know this. It’s a surreptitious one. The left wants an open, official one. They used to be shy about this sort of thing. Not any more.

          henrybowman in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 12, 2022 at 10:04 pm

          SO many guns are older than NICS…

          One proposal is that the owner of the firearm can register a firearm only if they can produce the original purchase bill. Since firearms are handed down over generations or purchase used…those firearms would be not registerable.

          healthguyfsu in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 13, 2022 at 1:33 pm

          It’s not “certainly illegal” that the ATF keeps a record of FFL transfers. Where do you all come up with this stuff?

          If you want to call that a registry, that’s your decision. You can bypass it with private sales but otherwise you’ve been complying with it for years.

          Credit card codes are not a gun registry. Yes, it raises an eyebrow, but it doesn’t break any laws. Further, the government already knows where most guns are already. If they want to try and take them, they will try. This changes nothing.

          henrybowman in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 13, 2022 at 6:15 pm

          “It’s not “certainly illegal” that the ATF keeps a record of FFL transfers. Where do you all come up with this stuff?”

          It is illegal. Under FOPA.
          The government is not allowed to keep a centralized registry.
          The transfer records (4473s) are presumably a comprehensive registry, but a distributed one, and BATF is forbidden by law from copying them and taking them back home unless they have a good, due-process, warrantable excuse.

          Colonel Travis in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 13, 2022 at 6:43 pm

          healthguyfsu – a searchable database, which the ATF now has, is 100% illegal.

        As I recall, the person who pays must be the intended owner, except under very restricted circumstances, otherwise it is a straw purchase.

        And just because it will have a 10-15% error rate does not mean it will not have the same general utility as a precise gun registry would.

          No. The person who is the intended owner has to do the transfer (4473), or at least sign it and have their info on it, but anybody can pay. “Straw purchase” is a misnomer.

          alaskabob in reply to Voyager. | September 13, 2022 at 4:29 pm

          Milhouse… ATF is scanning in the old 4473s which , by law, it is forbidden to do. The present form has been changed to allow such scanning to more easily be done. That is reality… no matter what the law says…ATF is ignoring it.

        Until Biden institutes digital money…..

        If calling it a ‘registry’ becomes problematic they can simply call it the enemies list.

        henrybowman in reply to healthguyfsu. | September 12, 2022 at 10:04 pm

        “The person who pays is not necessarily the owner.”
        He’d better be, unless he wants the BATF up his backside like a ferret.

      Milhouse in reply to Voyager. | September 12, 2022 at 6:55 pm

      Challenge how? Even if this could be used to create a gun registry, there would be nothing illegal about that. What law prevents someone from compiling such a registry? Only the laws of reality, not those of the USA. US law only prohibits the federal government from compiling one, or from requiring anyone to compile or maintain one. States and cities are allowed to and do have registries, and private people are certainly allowed to, if they could figure out a way to do so.

      But of course, for the reasons explained in the post, this doesn’t even help anyone keep a registry, because it misses so many sales, and because it doesn’t record what was purchased.

        It’s illegal because it is the government requiring these “registrations”. Coloring it with the private sector changes nothing.

          Milhouse in reply to Barry. | September 13, 2022 at 12:24 am

          That’s garbage. First of all the government is not requiring anything. Second, these are not registrations. It’s simply a merchandise code. Third, even if these were registrations and the government required them, there would still be nothing illegal about it. The federal government itself, after all, is entitled to and does receive reports of every gun sale via the background check system; what it’s not allowed to do is keep those records in a registry, or require anyone else to do so. Since it’s not doing that, if some private entity were to decide to do so there would be nothing illegal about it.

          Barry in reply to Barry. | September 13, 2022 at 1:22 am

          You are as always, a dope. The government has been in bed with and owns the bankers. They tell them exactly what they will do, and they do it. And this is a registry, you’re either not bright enough to understand it or your a part of it.

          No, this is not a registry – at least not of firearms.It can’t a registry, as it doesn’t track actual firearms. It just tracks all sales at places labeled “gun store” – and includes everything sold there.

          Barry in reply to Barry. | September 14, 2022 at 11:26 am

          Yes it is a registry. Government forced by the bankers.

          Dopes are losers. Don’t be either, and don’t listen to those that sell government hogwash and coverup.

        Voyager in reply to Milhouse. | September 12, 2022 at 9:40 pm

        And if you believe for a moment that the three major credit card companies are not compiling this for the federal government, I’ve got a very nice bridge to sell you.

          Milhouse in reply to Voyager. | September 13, 2022 at 12:26 am

          They can compile it for whomever they like. The federal government is not allowed to do one specific thing only: Compile a gun registry, or require someone else to do so. It can compile anything else. It can ask other people to compile even a gun registry, if that were possible. But of course this code doesn’t help with that in the first place.

          It can ask other people to compile even a gun registry
          Ummmm, Milhouse, have you ever read your previous comments? They can’t ask someone to do something they aren’t allowed to do, because that person would then be acting as a state agent… and thereby prohibited from doing it.

          Sometimes your pedantry causes monumental flip-flops.

          Voyager in reply to Voyager. | September 13, 2022 at 8:25 am

          Under that logic, the CDC asking Twitter the censor people who disagreed with it was also lawful.

          I don’t see how you can assert that in good faith.

          henrybowman in reply to Voyager. | September 13, 2022 at 6:18 pm

          When you’re holding the guy’s license to run his business in one hand and a gun in the other, you’re no longer “asking.”

          ” It can ask other people to compile even a gun registry, if that were possible.”

          More bullshit from a dope. It is illegal to do that. 100% illegal.

          Of course they do it anyway because dopes like milhouse permit and encourage it. He is all in for a police state.

      taurus the judge in reply to Voyager. | September 13, 2022 at 8:27 am

      @voyager

      You: So question becomes, who has standing to challenge this in court? Because it certainly seems like coordination to create an illegal registry.

      Do the stores have standing to challenge it? Do the customers? Is it a possible class action?

      Answer

      Regretfully, nobody has any cause of action to do anything legally.

      That said, we need to dig deeper into the details because this is something else. They already have “purchase information” regarding guns, ammo etc. and have for a long time.

      They are not asking for something they already have and have had- I think they are camouflaging their true intent with this as a red herring to steer attention away from the real purpose they intend to use this data for.

    alaskabob in reply to 2smartforlibs. | September 13, 2022 at 2:16 pm

    Let’s track birth control products as we all know… prostitution and rape are crimes directly related to these purchases.

The Gentle Grizzly | September 12, 2022 at 5:05 pm

WWDD? What will Discover Do?

What will NEA do with their affinity card?

    The Gentle Grizzly in reply to The Gentle Grizzly. | September 12, 2022 at 5:06 pm

    NRA. EDIT FUNCTION PLEASE…!

    NRA’s affinity card is handled, ironically enough, by Pentagon Federal Credit Union. (“I’ll have three of these GENUINE weapons of war, a set of dogtags, and a Red Bull from the cooler, thanks!”)

    Previously, it was handled by First National Bank Omaha, who caved to cancel culture pressure after the Stoneman school shooting.

    Discover is hideously woke — I don’t see NRA and Discover ever considering each other.

    Capitalism abhors a market vacuum. Look for a new alternative “(DogeCard?”) coming soon.

    (That isn’t entirely a joke. During Operation Chokepoint, firearms retailers created their own “merchant services processors” to process CC transactions from customers, because existing MSPs had gotten strongarmed not to take accounts from firearms merchants. People said it couldn’t be done, but they did it, and they are now healthy and have now permanently removed ongoing revenue from the sheeple processors. I think they could do this, too.)

      And I’m guessing all the transactions from those MSPs are already flagged in the system, and will likely get these codes forced on them after they’ve processed the transactions. A new CC isn’t going to help in this situation – only stopping the code or stopping the ability of any payment processor to discriminate on the basis of exercise of a constitutional right.

        henrybowman in reply to GWB. | September 13, 2022 at 6:22 pm

        Well, it’s easy enough to monkeywrench. Fact is, had I not already had a comfortable and established relationship with an MSP before these “rebel MSPs” were invented, and were I a newbie looking for an MSP, I would have started with those guys just to show the flag. They’re free to (and do) take clients other than gun shops.

I wonder if my local gun store takes cash?

The same people who scream the right is “Fascist”, are applauding this move.

People on our side – Yay Bruen!
People on the left – SCOTUS go to hell, we’re making you jump through more hoops, we’re banning firearms, we’re going for a registry.

This is scary and no one cares enough to stop it. I don’t see how America survives. I really don’t.

    henrybowman in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 12, 2022 at 6:05 pm

    People on the left including a bunch of those pretending to be on our side…

      healthguyfsu in reply to henrybowman. | September 12, 2022 at 6:25 pm

      doesn’t seem logically consistent with how apparently difficult it is to cross an imaginary line to get an abortion for leftists does it?

        henrybowman in reply to healthguyfsu. | September 12, 2022 at 10:14 pm

        I’m not sure anybody has actually tried.
        The Supremes laid down Roe, and the entire legislative branch, relieved, went back to sleep, relieved. The Supremes overthrew Roe, and the entire legislative branch was happy to pawn the tsouris back onto the states, and go back to sleep.
        If the federal Democrats put on the same quality of concerted campaign to codify abortion as they just did for gun control, I’m not going to go on record predicting that they wouldn’t get the same “Republican” quislings crossing the line for that, too.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | September 12, 2022 at 10:19 pm

          Unless you were talking about CITIZENS having to cross a state border to get a gun license, as citizens seeking abortions are being told to do…?
          There are several huge differences there.
          You can’t go out of state to get a license for your own state, duh.
          You can get a license in another state, but it’s no good in yours.
          You can’t even legally buy a handgun in another state due to fed law, nor can you buy any other gun that would be illegal in your state. And if you’re from a troublesome state, an FFL would rather turn away your business than risk selling you anything that some pissant law in your state may have inexplicably outlawed.

          You can get a license in another state, but it’s no good in yours.
          Not entirely true. There is reciprocity, and some of it is for non-resident permits. However, if you’re crossing over to get a permit in a more permissive state it is very likely the case your state won’t recognize that non-resident permit from that other state. It’s a bit crazy out there.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | September 13, 2022 at 6:27 pm

          My point exactly. To my knowledge, none of the states that make it a total bitch to get a license offer reciprocity to any other state’s licenses.

Eastwood Ravine | September 12, 2022 at 6:05 pm

This is really a double whammy. So we go to cash purchases. When you go to the store to make your purchase, you may be carrying upwards of a $1000.00 dollars (or more) on you. So the cops stake out the roads nearby, pull you over for some up reason, ask for your licenses and registration, and ask, “Are you carrying any large sums of money?”

Civil forfeiture abuse is a real thing in America. Google it.

    You don’t answer questions like that. In fact you ask the questions:

    1. “Am I Being Detained?”
    2. “Am I Being Arrested?”
    3. “May I Speak to My Lawyer?”
    4. “What Is My Arrest/Detainment for?”
    5. “Am I Free to Go?”
    6. “Do You Have a Warrant?”

      Barry in reply to MosesZD. | September 12, 2022 at 9:16 pm

      Bingo.
      Don’t bend over for the fascists, big or small.

      diver64 in reply to MosesZD. | September 13, 2022 at 4:35 pm

      Never, ever answer any questions even “where you heading”. Never consent to a search. Be polite but you are under no obligation to help law enforcement do their job.
      As one recent radio commercial for a lawyer said “I have one piece of advice, shut the ***** up”!!

    “Are you carrying any large sums of money?”
    6. “Do You Have a Warrant?”
    No? Then it’s none of your business according to the 4th and 5th Amendments.
    Add salty language as the situation and LE attitude dictates.

      diver64 in reply to GWB. | September 13, 2022 at 4:37 pm

      Had one cop outside Memphis, who stopped me at 0800 on I40 for tailgating, ask me
      “You have and drugs, large sums of money or hand grenades”?
      Seriously. Of course he wanted a response so ” why in hell would i have a hand grenade” was it.

Good excuse to go buy a new gun, with cash 😉

I have cash. I don’t mind using it.

Q: What ‘business’ purpose could this possibly serve?

A: None

Q: How does it help Visa, MC, and Amex provide better service to their customers?

A: It doesn’t.

This is a leftwing ESG initiative.

Once again, Woke Big Business is doing what The Regime can’t do but wants done. No opting out. No legislative voting allowed WRT having the exercise of your 2nd amendment right tracked — day to day, week-to-week, month-to-month….

Add another data point on the ‘Dems are Leftwing Fascists’ pile.

    henrybowman in reply to JHogan. | September 12, 2022 at 10:22 pm

    It sounds like that at one remove. Big business is doing what a “standards NGO” is demanding, and that NGO is doing what a government is demanding. Like paying somebody to pay Wuhan to wage biowar on us.

    Ostensibly, this would allow for the same sort of aggregate data mining they already do. This is partly how anyone knows that “Americans spent less on food, cars, and gasoline than they did on taxes last year.” They add up numbers from all those categories and fudge a bit this way and that (like assuming some %age of “general retailer” purchases are food and some %age are ‘durable goods’) and they can give you big “statistical” numbers for stuff. They can also tell you which segment is growing or shrinking, etc. All the sorts of stuff economists and other mathematicians love to know and play with.

    So, there’s the “business purpose”.
    However, they aren’t even bothering to to sell it as that. It’s going to be a way to notice someone suddenly equipping themselves for a mayhem outing. Mhmmmm. Sure. That’s going to work.

It directly infers that this is the source of gun violence which it isn’t. Let me guess… bookstores will have a special category when purchasing a Bible or from any declared conservative author? Yep, JHogan, another truly fascist agreement.

When the government just feeds weapons to drug runners, as Holder did in “Fast and Furious,” did they use credit cards?

Do gun runners, drug runners etc. use traceable credit cards?? Yet another thing that only makes life difficult for the law abiding gun owners.

Do they really want a barter system to spring up?

    henrybowman in reply to Dimsdale. | September 12, 2022 at 10:29 pm

    “When the government just feeds weapons to drug runners, as Holder did in “Fast and Furious,” did they use credit cards?”

    Of course not. They have RFID chips on them, making them traceable.

Use cash, what guns and ammo you own is none of the fascist government’s business.

    timbro in reply to Ironclaw. | September 13, 2022 at 5:20 am

    Completely agree. I’ve tried using cash for last 2 or 3 years anyway(2 of my cards got hacked when paying online, can’t be asked to do all this bank stuff everytime). And now even more reasons for this! Gladly I’m living in North Richland, plenty of various gun stores around( https://gritrsports.com/ is like 2 blocks away for me, been so comfy to just stop there on my way from work and pick up stuff). Going to avoid online orders like wildfire now.

So if I buy a candy bar and a gun, they both get credited as ‘gun’ for this. Hm. What about multi-item stores like Academy and Wal-Mart? If I buy a set of shelves at Menards will it get credited the same way as if I buy a gun safe?

    Colonel Travis in reply to georgfelis. | September 12, 2022 at 7:31 pm

    It tracks the merchant, not what you buy. It’s a way to put pressure on them, while it also opens the door to more tracking. This is insidious.

Civil Rights? Human life and viability? Ban the double-edged scalpel, vacuums, high-mass SUVs, and female chauvinist hags and the male chauvinist pigs that tumble after.

That said, no witches hunted, nor warlocks judged, nor babies planned, nor a minority report, too. #HateLovesAbortion

Anyone know what they mean by, “ Gun sales at “big-box retailers” will not fall under the category.”

Would a gun buy from Walmart not be tracked because no one is bigger then Walmart?

What about a sporting goods store like Bass Pro, Scheels, etc?

Add to the question what about a large online gun retailer like Bud’s Gun Shop or Palmetto State Armory or Kentucky Gun Company?

Would a gun only store be considered a “big-box retailer” if they had a large amount of gun sales?

    henrybowman in reply to Chitragupta. | September 12, 2022 at 10:33 pm

    Yes.

    The code identifies the retailer, not the purchase.

    If you buy $4,000 of hollowpoint at Wal-Mart, then no difference from today, because WalMart is a “general merchandise” outlet.

    If you buy a $4,000 gun safe, or a pair of matched high-end elephant guns for a safari second honeymoon at Scottsdale Gun Club, it shows up as a huge “gun purchase.” (If you buy a $3 Red Bull from the cooler there it also shows up as a gun purchase, but probably one that wouldn’t excite the feds.)

Could be a business opportunity for Trump to create the Trump Card and banking system.

I’m going to stop using my VISA/MC/AmEx cards to the maximum extent possible.

I can do the vast majority of transactions I need to make in cash or by check.

I will advise my bank’s management what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.

There is only one way to influence these scum. Punch them in their wallets,

    It is more difficult to do purchasing online without using a credit card. And my friendly LGS often doesn’t carry the things I need or want (or at the price I want). Cash is more difficult to use than it used to be.

    And, of course, the IRS wants to track the transactions of every account with more than $600 in it, or transactions more than $600. So, good luck on taking out enough cash to buy a non-bottom-tier (HiPoint) firearm and not having it noticed.

We will quickly see the credit card companies ban purchases at any gun store without the need of the government to force them to stop.

What’s going to happen is you’re going to have some dirt-bag actually buy a gun using his credit card and he’s going to do a mass shooting.

The credit card companies of course before this new tracking plan could say truthfully that they had no idea the mass shooter bought the gun at Gun Store A as all legal purchases are under a general retail category.

Now however because they have the Gun Store label the victims are going to sue the credit card companies and say, “you could have stopped this mass shooting from happening as you knew the purchase from the mass-shooter, for a large amount of money, was at a gun store.”

Even if the credit card companies win the lawsuit the cost in defending it and the cost to their reputation is going to cause the credit card companies to eventually say no to all purchases at gun stores just to avoid the hassle. Especially if they are getting sued constantly by victims.

Which is probably the real goal here. Anti-gun nuts know they can’t get laws to outlaw guns so they simply make conditions that lead to making it difficult for buyers to buy firearms and firearms related stuff.

It needs to be understood, this is the government doing this. Pretending it’s some part of free enterprise is just a damn joke. The feds own the news organizations, and the bankers. They do what their told.

It’s all illegal, corrupt, and the perpetrators are all criminals.

And the republican party just stands by approvingly.

    amatuerwrangler in reply to Barry. | September 13, 2022 at 10:12 am

    sf course its the government. This post starts out telling us how a group of lawmakers, “including Sen, Warren” requested this move from the CC companies. I seriously doubt they only identified themselves as concerned citizens, acting as individuals, not in any official capacity. Te whole thing was flavored with the implied threat that if the CC outfits did not comply now, legislation would be forthcoming, including a run-up of nearly unending hearings that they would be compelled to participate in.

The argument that using credit card data to identify potential mass shooters and prevent subsequent shootings is pure horse hockey. Virtually every mass shooter – every one – dating back to the VA Tech shooter and shooting up through the Buffalo shooter was a known problematic individual whose name had NOT been entered into the NICS database because someone felt sorry for them, acted irresponsibly, or knew someone who could keep their name out of the system (see the backstory in the Gabby Gifford case). This is where the problem is.

Politicians will begin demanding access to the information and start hounding and investigating the names on the list immediately after VISA, et al begin collecting the information. As usual, the result will be that honest law abiding individuals will pay the price for the intrusion into their lives while irresponsible people and organizations, “connected” individuals, mentally unstable individuals, and outright criminals will continue to be protected or just slip through the system.

    “The move by Visa signals a major victory for gun control advocates who argue that a separate category for gun store sales will help track suspicious quantities of firearm sales that could potentially lead to a mass shooting.”

    Because every mass shooter first went out and bought “suspicious quantities” of firearms. I can’t think of even one. In fact, I seem to remember that an Arizona gun store (yeah, I know which one) refused to sell arms to an illegal Mexican gun runner in Hillary and Holder’s insane “Fast and Furious” scheme.

    Law abiding citizens owning guns is NOT the problem. It’s corrupt government dictatorship.

      I can’t think of even one.
      There is evidently ONE: the Pulse Nightclub terrorist evidently spent tens of thousands of dollars all in one frenzy of buying. THAT is the “evidence” they’re using to push this.

    henrybowman in reply to Owego. | September 13, 2022 at 6:36 pm

    “a known problematic individual whose name had NOT been entered into the NICS database because someone felt sorry for them, acted irresponsibly, or knew someone who could keep their name out of the system”

    …or never had their name entered INTO the system by a government too lazy to do the job they demand of everybody else.

More reasons to use cash in local stores I guess. Government once again coming up with a way to first gather database of gun owners(just to “unintentionally” leak it like it happened in NY)

taurus the judge | September 13, 2022 at 8:07 am

Guys, this is something else ( just not sure what yet) and this is a lot of “smokescreen” ( possibly a red herring to draw attention from something else)

READ THE DETAILS CAREFULLY ( and cardmember agreements)

I have a merchant account for the business.

Depending on your contract, you automatically have to do LEVEL-3 reporting ( that’s the individual line item description you see on your receipt) There’s very little “veiling” allowed or they will no longer allow you to use the MCA- you cant “hide” the purchase much.

That 3rd level can be “beer” or “Corona” and even a size/color etc- however the system is set up.

Those things are marketed to build user profiles but not on a CC invoice but that data is in use every day.

A debit card is a prepaid CC so its exactly the same.

This information also winds up at LE “fusion centers” so its already available.

Since your “user agreement” ALREADY ALLOWS for sharing- the USG ALREADY HAS access to it ( without a warrant) just like those ancestry sites with DNA.

Look any of that up or ask anyone you know who has a bank issued MCA for credit. This is all common knowledge and has been done for a long time.

This is what worries me. The “press release” out there is harping on things they ALREADY GET- so that makes me wonder what the true intent is for this.

I do not believe we have seen that yet.

    The true intent is to be able to deny transactions at some future date, based on that code.
    I understand they did that with marijuana vendors in the states that legalized marijuana – so you have to pay cash.

      taurus the judge in reply to GWB. | September 13, 2022 at 10:24 am

      I don’t “believe so” for this reason (But that doesn’t mean its not and as of this post the information is too sketchy to really dig deep into so I may amend it later based on additional clarification)

      This “new” ISO code from my understanding is level-1 data ( high level) and only identified the retailer as a “firearms related purchase”.

      It would be like “bills outdoor shop”- “shooting goods”-$3422.87

      I have yet to see the exact syntax of the new code yet ( that will tell us a lot)

      The CC companies already get and use the L2/3 data to build customer profiles.

      Technically, they could “deny” transactions now by “censoring” the level-3 data right now if they wanted to ( your card wouldn’t accept a charge for a restricted item)

      I just feel something else is going on here we have yet to see

        I’m going to guess lots of firearms-related businesses do not provide level 2/3 data, precisely because of that tracking. (Though at least some probably do out of ignorance of the system.)

          taurus the judge in reply to GWB. | September 13, 2022 at 3:55 pm

          Hard to say, I can only speak for mine and what i was told when it was set up.

          These “cube” systems are basically L1 systems.

          If you have a business done through a bank, have an inventory system, POS devices and all they- you most likely have L2/3 system. (often they require it and its a package deal)

          Based on that, I imagine it depends on the size of the store and money involved.

          I “guess” those who have the POS systems and from a bank most likely have the full Monty.

“In God, we trust. All others, cash”….

I say we all go out and buy huge quantities of ammunition. Let’s scare the heck of them.

But that’s not the only reason. The new code that could track gun and ammo purchases could lead to historical precedent that says such large quantity ammunition purchases are normal and customary, a standard the Bruen decision said that can be used when evaluating the constitutionality of gun control regulations. Could be a win for us in the future…

    Barry in reply to richjb. | September 14, 2022 at 11:40 am

    “I say we all go out and buy huge quantities of ammunition. ”

    That’s been happening for quite some time, driving up the price of ammo to absurd levels. If I were younger I would go into the ammo manufacturing business in a heartbeat.

Stop focusing on the “gun purchases” aspect. This is a minor impact on tracking or shutting down those.
This is about all the other things you buy at gun shops: ammo, triggers, receiver parts, upper receivers, barrels, sights, holsters, etc. Everything you buy at “Ammodepot” is now going to get tagged with “gun purchase”. Everything you buy at your LGS is now going to get tagged with “gun purchase”. You go to the range and buy a coke and a donut? That gets tagged as a “gun store” buy.

Then, they can, when they have the right support, shut off those transactions. Simultaneously, they can investigate you for money laundering because you’re taking out and toting around “large” amounts of cash to buy firearms and such.

I wouldn’t pay with a credit card in a gun store any more than I would use a credit card at a massage parlor or at a bar. I use credit cards only for gas, major appliances, doctor bills, and online purchases.

    Which, of course, is how they justify the no-cash thing: people only need to use cash for doing “nefarious” things. Like massage parlors, speak-easies, and guns. [cue film noir villain music]

A potential, slightly inconvenient, workaround may be to use your CC to buy a store-branded gift card in an amount suffice to for ammo or gun purchase. Purchase ammo/gun.

When you use a credit card to purchase goods or services, the credit processor charges a transaction fee, typically 3% or more which is included in the price of the goods or services sold by the merchant. Customers tend to spend more when the transaction is easier because of the credit card.
When you pay cash, the merchant is not charged any transaction fee, so the transaction is more profitable yet is more cumbersome for the merchant (think counting and secure storage of the cash, making change, deposit of the funds in the bank’s night deposit, etc. If the customer does not have sufficient funds on their person, they do not purchase the goods or services.
For online transactions, credit cards are more convenient and usage results in goods shipped to the customers quicker, instead of waiting for a check to be delivered and for the check to be cleared by the bank.