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Reminder: Fighting a Cop for Control of Taser Will Likely Get You Lawfully Shot

Reminder: Fighting a Cop for Control of Taser Will Likely Get You Lawfully Shot

An unlawful attempt to disable an officer is properly deemed a deadly force attack

Reminder: Fighting a Cop for Control of Taser Will Likely Get You Lawfully Shot

On April 4, 2022, Patrick Lyoya was shot and killed by a Grand Rapids police officer after violently fighting lawful arrest following an attempt to flee a traffic stop, and after refusing to give up control of the Taser Lyoya had seized from the officer during their struggle.

Essentially the entirety of the physical confrontation between Lyoya and the officer was captured on video, in various forms—the officer’s body camera until that was disabled in the struggle, the officer’s dash camera video from his patrol vehicle, and a bystander’s smartphone video.  These videos were yesterday released by the Grand Rapids Police Department, along with extensive commentary, during an hour-long press conference.  You can watch that press conference in its entirety here:

Based on those facts alone, this is patently a lawful use of deadly defensive force by the officer involved, who seems to remain unnamed at this point—appropriately so, as there appears zero evidence that the officer has done anything unlawful.

Naturally enough, however, the racial grievance industrial complex has seized upon this event as another purported example of “a racist police officer shooting dead an unarmed victim.”  I note in passing that professional racial grifter Benjamin Crump is among the leaders of this narrative—which really should be the tell that the narrative is as far from the truth as one might possibly imagine.

Anyone following this event will hear lots of weeping and moaning about how this shooting was all over a mere traffic stop, a minor vehicle violation—the car’s license plates did not match the vehicle—and that Lyoya could simply have been sent a ticket in the mail.

I suppose we could imagine living in a world where police don’t make traffic stops, but that is not the world in which either Lyoya or the officer involved were living on April 4, 2022.  Accordingly, all such talk is nothing but childish wish casting.

In fact, we live in a world where traffic officers are permitted—indeed, expected—to stop vehicles engaged in traffic violations.

Where those officers are permitted to ask the driver of the vehicle for a driver’s license.

Where that driver is lawfully detained during this process, and is not free to merely flee the scene.

Where such flight is lawfully preventable by the officer, including using reasonable force to the extent necessary to compel compliance. Indeed, such flight allows an inference by the officer of a crime being in play that is far more serious than a mere traffic violation.

Where non-deadly force in the form of a Taser is permitted when a suspect being subject to a lawful arrest is violently resisting that arrest.

Where a suspect who seizes control of that officer’s Taser, and is now armed and capable of disabling that officer and seizing the officer’s pistol, presents as an imminent deadly force threat to that officer.

And where an officer presented with such an imminent deadly force threat, after repeatedly ordering the suspect to give up control of the Taser without compliance, can use deadly defensive force upon that suspect.

Period.

Nothing that appears in the videos of this encounter between Lyoya and the involved Grand Rapids PD officer comes even close to unlawful use of force by that officer.

It is worth noting that the defensive use of a Taser for lawful purposes is properly understood as the use of mere non-deadly force; in contrast, the offensive use of a Taser to advance a criminal purpose, as was being done here by Lyoya, is properly understood as an imminent threat of deadly force—meaning, force readily capable of causing either death or serious bodily injury, such as disablement.

That same analysis applies to the 2020 shooting of Rayshard Brooks in Georgia after Brooks seized the Taser of the officer against whom Brooks was violently resisting lawful arrest.

The only person in this confrontation who could have assured that Patrick Lyoya was not fatally and lawfully shot dead by law enforcement on April 4, 2022, was the man who made that shooting both necessary and justified:  Patrick Lyoya.

OK, folks, that’s all I have for you on this topic.

Until next time:

Remember

You carry a gun so you’re hard to kill.

Know the law so you’re hard to convict.

Stay safe!

–Andrew

Attorney Andrew F. Branca
Law of Self Defense LLC

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Comments

So sick of race mongers

Juris Doctor | April 14, 2022 at 7:27 pm

It was only Saint Patrick’s fourth arrest for stolen cars.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/04/11/lyoy-a11.html

    Peabody in reply to Juris Doctor. | April 14, 2022 at 7:42 pm

    It was also his last.

    pst314 in reply to Juris Doctor. | April 15, 2022 at 8:01 pm

    And yet his family told the news people that he was a good boy who didn’t do nothin. Gosh.

      The Gentle Grizzly in reply to pst314. | April 15, 2022 at 10:19 pm

      “Didn’t do nothin’”. Algebraically, he did. Two negatives result in a positive.

      Math be raysiss.

    That explains why he switched the plates. I guess he figured the cops would be looking for the stolen car by the plate number, so if he used a different plate they’d pass over him. But this cop went a little further; when the car matched the description but the plate didn’t, he ran the plate through his computer.

    Driving with a plate other than the one registered to the car isn’t just a “minor traffic violation”, it’s probable cause to suspect the driver of engaging in a crime. The driver might be the innocent victim of criminals stealing license plates, but I think that’s more likely that the driver stole the plate in furtherance of some other crime.

A Chris Rock public service announcement,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

If Lyoya was trying to get his grubby hand on the taser, he would also have tried to get the to gun. You don’t have but one tenth of a second to make a decision.

When Lyoya chose to grab that officer’s Taser he chose…poorly.

Reminder: fighting a cop for control of taser will likely get you lawfully shot…. But make your family rich when the city pays out without a fight.

Colonel Travis | April 14, 2022 at 8:14 pm

No sympathy for morons

Didn’t we establish exactly this during the “Wendy’s shooting” of some black guy during our most recent “days of rage?” Guy grabbed the taser and booked, cop shot him, NPCs all went reeeeeeeeee! on schedule, lawyers pointed out that in that state a Taser was legally a deadly weapon, end of discussion.

Here in AZ we are trying to get SB1251 passed, making it “armed robbery” to take or attempt to take possession of a deadly weapon during a robbery. It’s still in process.

    From the post:

    That same analysis applies to the 2020 shooting of Rayshard Brooks in Georgia after Brooks seized the Taser of the officer against whom Brooks was violently resisting lawful arrest.

    pst314 in reply to henrybowman. | April 16, 2022 at 10:25 am

    He didn’t just grab the Taser and run away: He also, while running, turned and fired the Taser at the pursuing officer. (All this after fighting both officers, and knocking one of them to the ground causing a concussion.)
    And Rayshard Brooks had a long criminal record, including numerous felony charges, going back to age 10. Not exactly a good citizen and asset to the community.

a minor vehicle violation—the car’s license plates did not match the vehicle
Ummm, not really. It is almost assuredly* a stolen car. And that is not a “minor” violation.

(* Almost assured, but not entirely. I did actually get pulled over by a cop on a long, dark stretch of highway when driving a rental – because the license didn’t match the color of car. I showed my rental papers and he was very nice and polite and understanding and let me go on my way. I told him I would be letting the rental company know, and not using nice words.)

    henrybowman in reply to GWB. | April 14, 2022 at 10:13 pm

    Among the crowd in the neighborhood I grew up in, the more likely possibility was that he was driving an unregistered, uninsured jalopy on plates he borrowed (or “borrowed”).

    amatuerwrangler in reply to GWB. | April 15, 2022 at 11:42 am

    Semi-related: Why would a state include the vehicle color on the registration? Have they figured out an objective definition of colors, so that brown, light brown, tan, beige, etc are listed as individual colors….? And do they require some kind of permit or report when you get your car re-painted in a color different from the factory one?

    Now a plate showing a different make, model, or year that is different from the vehicle it is attached to is a horse of a different color, for sure.

      The Gentle Grizzly in reply to amatuerwrangler. | April 15, 2022 at 10:23 pm

      This is not to mention some of the paint colors they’ve come up with lately. Fuel of them occur in nature, and very few can be described. An example is a 2016 Tahoe that I used to have. The color was described in the book as tongue stone. To me it was a dark gray sort of something that I couldn’t quite describe.

        henrybowman in reply to The Gentle Grizzly. | April 16, 2022 at 1:25 am

        Brings to mind an overly-precious palette of “counterculture-inspired” colors offered by Ford in 1969, including Freudian Gilt, Thanks Vermillion, Hulla Blue, Original Cinnamon, and Anti-Establish Mint.

    aivanther in reply to GWB. | April 15, 2022 at 4:16 pm

    Which, given that it’s being reported that the guy has some priors for vehicle theft, seems even more likely than normal.

    markm in reply to GWB. | April 15, 2022 at 10:10 pm

    Rental cars are usually stored in open lots without any security after hours except cameras recording video that will only be viewed later – if at all. If I were a crook and I wanted a license plate with all the normal date tags and wear, which wouldn’t be missed until tomorrow, it seems like an easy place to steal one. And if I brought another plate to bolt on in place of the stolen one, would the rental agency spot it when they next rented the car, when the car was returned after the next rental, or maybe never? (People don’t ID their car among a sea of same-model rentals by the color and plate number anymore, they just click their key gismo and look for the car that’s beeping and flashing its lights.)

This belligerent attitude that some display of ‘I don’t have to obey an Officer’ during a very simple encounter is getting people injured and in some cases killed for foolish and misguided pride. If there’s an infraction for something to do with vehicle or a moving violation then expect to get pulled over. Be courteous toward LEO and 9/10 times it will be returned. Even the 1/10 when it isn’t, a simple traffic stop and a ticket aren’t worth dying over.

I saw a post on another site that tried to take this down the cultural/language barrier trail as the deceased was an immigrant from the Congo.

Apparently in the Congo drivers who are stopped are free to ignore the verbal instructions or gestures of cops/soldiers/people with guns. It’s a cultural thing.

No, I’m not happy that the man was shot but if anything confused him it was the actions and words of the left over the last few years.

    Dathurtz in reply to Gosport. | April 14, 2022 at 10:29 pm

    I have never been through the Congo, but I have traveled a bit in other parts of Africa. Everybody seemed to think it was pretty important to obey the guys with the guns, even if they were just making you disinfect the soles of your shoes.

    pst314 in reply to Gosport. | April 16, 2022 at 7:58 am

    Where was that? Sounds interesting in a strange demented way.

    Gosport in reply to Gosport. | April 16, 2022 at 5:47 pm

    Forgive my poorly expressed sarcasm above.

    Ignoring a Congolese cop/soldier/person with a gun will most likely get you shot on the spot, kicked into the bushes, and never mentioned again.

    Thus, claiming “cultural differences” caused this incident is ridiculous.

      pst314 in reply to Gosport. | April 16, 2022 at 6:28 pm

      Ah, I see. Every now and then I forget to finish with a “/sarcasm” tag and what I thought was obvious turns out to be anything but.

Fewer traffic stops would be good.

    Even better: fewer auto thefts.

    Milhouse in reply to kohath. | April 15, 2022 at 2:25 am

    Why would that be good?

      BobM in reply to Milhouse. | April 15, 2022 at 8:29 am

      Milhouse, now you’re just trolling.

      This wasn’t a DWB (Driving While Black) pullover – the only way an officer would know the plates didn’t match was if he either manually or automatically could look it up.

      I don’t care if you’re white black or pink polka dotted once the plates don’t match the car they’re on you either have a case of (1) stolen plates (2) unregistered or uninsured vehicle (3) stolen car or (4) multiple of the above.

      The ONLY innocent explanation (for the driver) is someone else switched the plates without his/her knowledge. Funny enuf, this actually happened to me – someone (I suspect a coworker) swiped my front plate and put another plate there to hide the fact. Eventually I got pulled over and the mismatched plates came to light. Other wise I was street legal and as I didn’t assault the cop or steal any of his equipment I was left to drive away with advice to get it fixed at the dmv.

100% of all these black fools who died at the hands of cops or vigilantes would be alive if they didn’t fight people with guns or they complied with instructions.

This lesson is always forgone by race mongers who profit off the backs of dead black fools.

Play stupid games…

LongTimeReader | April 15, 2022 at 9:28 am

Speaking of Rayshard Brooks, those officers are still in political/legal limbo. Ridiculous. Charged but not indicted, prosecutorial hot potato. Worried about the officer involved in the Lyoya case getting drug into court to have to prove himself innocent. Sigh.

HE GOT DEAD! exactly what he needed. He gave to cop trouble from the start on purpose.

ugottabekiddinme | April 15, 2022 at 11:00 am

My son in law was driving a friend’s borrowed car to work, as his was in the shop, when he was pulled over, and at gunpoint told by the officers to exit the vehicle, and lie on the ground. Puzzled, but law-abiding, he did so. Handcuffed, he explained whose car it was and why he was driving it. They were kind enough to use his cell to call the friend and verify he had lawful posession of the car — he’d been stopped because the plates did not match the car. Turned out that the friend was unaware his plates had been stolen and others switched while parked in his apartment complex. All went well; he just had to get replacment plates. It is a simple thing not to get shot by cops — comply, do not resist. All will be well.

    Bruce Hayden in reply to ugottabekiddinme. | April 15, 2022 at 12:31 pm

    My stolen plate story. Had the rear plate stolen at a Motel 6 in Phoenix. Called PHX PD to report it. The officer suggested that instead of driving the car with just the one plate, which is legal in AZ, that I remove both plates. Why I ask? Because a lot of cop cars had automatic plate scanning camera and software, and if they detected the missing plates that way, I would be pulled over and removed from the car at gunpoint. But if you are pulled over for no plates, they will initially be nice to you about it, and let you explain. Headed back to CO the next day, without any plates visible, and 750 miles later, almost home, CHP pulled me over. I handed to officer the other plate and explained. He ran it, and confirmed what PHX PD had said – that if he had run that plate, and it had come up stolen, as it did, he would have pulled me over, kept me in the car until backup arrived, then pulled me out at gunpoint, proned me on the ground, in handcuffs, etc, and then allowed me to explain. Since the plates matched my DL, etc, I was allowed to go, with the admonition to get new plates ASAP, which I did the next day.

    Reporting lost plates can be a pain, but if you haven’t, then any crimes committed with those plates are going to be assumed to be yours, and so you should expect, in a well run jurisdiction, to end up forcible on the ground in handcuffs, and then maybe in jail, until you can show your innocence.

    That is why the media and groups like BLM talk up the driving while black and cops hunting black people story line. If you believe that the cops are racists that want to harass and kill you it incentivizes resisting. Resisting gets people killed. The grifters’ get paid. New story to tell. Repeat the cycle. Don’t tell me the media or those groups care about black people because they don’t.

      The Gentle Grizzly in reply to Martin. | April 15, 2022 at 10:29 pm

      Mine might be stolen by a plate collector, but a thief? No.

      I don’t think they’d find FURFACE to be Judt Another Plate.

Don’t be that guy. Do what the officer tells you. if you don’t, you deserve the consequences.

“Anyone following this event will hear lots of weeping and moaning about how this shooting was all over a mere traffic stop, a minor vehicle violation—the car’s license plates did not match the vehicle—and that Lyoya could simply have been sent a ticket in the mail.”

And then what? What if the ticket is not paid? How many tickets before you get a warrant? How is that warrant processed? Do the police get to stop a car if the owner has warrants?

Do we have laws or not?

It’s a given that 99.99% of these encounters between black suspect and police resulting in the suspect’s death, involve brazenly and blatantly criminal behavior and stupid choices made by the decedent. Yet, the Dumb-o-crats and their media lackeys will predictably gin up the mob and stir the pot, in order to create political fodder for the Dumb-o-crat masses and business for the contrived/perpetual racial grievance hustlers.

Here in WA, car thefts have doubled in the last year. A year ago, the Seattle Democrats who run this state passed a bunch of stupid anti-police laws. Among other absurdities, they banned all police shotguns and all less-lethal ammunition, told police they would be liable for using force in mental cases and they should just leave or not even go to mental cases, and told police they are not allowed to chase a confirmed stolen car.

So thieves just steal cars at will, and if the cops notice and try to pull them over, they just speed away and the cops cannot chase them.

He jis be joggin’, min’n he own bit’nis.

I’ve seen about six mainstream news reports on this incident. They all displayed a Curious Lack of Interest in questions that should be central to news reporting. For instance:
(1) Patrick Lyoya’s criminal record.
(2) Was the car he was driving stolen?
(3) Were the plates on that car stolen?

More on Lyoya’s criminal history: In 2017, Lyoya was convicted of assaulting a pregnant woman. Lyoya violated his probation and did not pay his fine, resulting in the state garnishing his wages beginning in 2019.

Found via Andy Ngo.

Interesting how the media fails to report that Patrick Lyoya was driving on a revoked license and was on probation for a 2-year DWI sentence at the time he was pulled over. Hence he ran and fought the officer as he was going to get violated for driving on a revoked license and violating his terms of probation.

But those facts harm the innocent choirboy narrative, now don’t they?

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