Colleyville (Texas) Synagogue Update: Hostages Free, Terrorist Dead
Terrorist was shot during a rescue mission executed by SWAT and has died. The elite FBI hostage rescue team, who flew into DFW earlier that evening, executed the explosion and entry.
A gunmen has taken hostages at Congregation Beth Israel Temple in Colleyville, Texas, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, during Sabbath services.
As with all such breaking situations, initial reports can end up wrong. We will update as events unfold.
Stream shut down. Journalists caught this snip: https://t.co/6x16NZc4q8
"Wtf is wrong with America. There is something wrong with this f-ing system."
— Adir Krafman (@adirkrafman) January 15, 2022
BREAKING: Local reporters @ByJamesHartley and @JessikaHarkay describe what they heard on the Facebook livestream from inside the synagogue where a hostage situation remains ongoing in Colleyville, TX. pic.twitter.com/hEOQApTOeN
— Yasmin Vossoughian Reports (@YasminMSNBC) January 15, 2022
Hostage taker is Muhammad Siddiqui and claims to be Aafia Siddiqui's brother. He is demanding her freedom from an 86-year prison sentencehttps://t.co/GpWtTQ7kOD.
— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) January 15, 2022
[Update note: ABC News has taken down the above tweet]
If it turns out, as ABC News reports, that the gunman is Aafia Siddiqui’s brother, here’s background on her conviction in September 2010:
A Pakistani neuroscientist who was convicted of trying to kill American soldiers and F.B.I. agents in Afghanistan was sentenced to 86 years in prison on Thursday in Federal District Court in Manhattan.
The case of the scientist, Aafia Siddiqui, 38, had attracted wide attention, particularly in Pakistan, where she was widely portrayed as a heroine.
There have been recent protests demanding her release, including in October 2021 in Boston:
Dozens of protesters and human rights activists are calling on the Pakistani government to work to end the continued imprisonment of Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia Siddiqui in the United States.
Carrying pictures and banners, the protesters gathered outside the Pakistan Consulate in New York on Wednesday to decry Siddiqui’s situation and urge the Pakistani government to actively seek her immediate release and repatriate her.
And of course Linda Sarsour has sought to free Siddiqui pic.twitter.com/nSLolHXBGe
— Chuck Ross (@ChuckRossDC) January 15, 2022
UPDATES
Not the brother, but a supporter.
An attorney who represents the actual brother of Aafia Siddiqui told ABC News his client has been fielding calls from law enforcement and assuring them he is not involved in the hostage taking and has been trying to free his sister through peaceful means
— Aaron Katersky (@AaronKatersky) January 15, 2022
One hostage has been released.
Updated statement on #Colleyville incident. pic.twitter.com/ZgYzZhFk11
— Colleyville Police (@ColleyvillePD) January 16, 2022
END – HOSTAGES FREE, GUNMAN DEAD
Update at 9:55pm: The SWAT situation in Colleyville is resolved and all hostages are safe. We continue to work in partnership with the FBI to finalize all details. We will be addressing the media staging area at Good Shepherd Catholic Church at 10:15pm with an update.
— Colleyville Police (@ColleyvillePD) January 16, 2022
Prayers answered.
All hostages are out alive and safe.
— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) January 16, 2022
From local news:
At about 9:15 p.m., CBS 11’s JD Miles reported that “a loud explosion was just heard coming from the congregation Beth Israel synagogue where a standoff has been going on for 10 hours with a hostage taker followed by what appeared to be gunshots.”
At 9:36 p.m., Governor Greg Abbott tweeted that “all hostages are out alive and safe.” The suspect was shot during a rescue mission executed by SWAT and has died. It is unclear who fired the bullet.
Sources confirmed to CBS 11’s Doug Dunbar that the elite FBI hostage rescue team, who flew into DFW earlier that evening, executed the explosion and entry.
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Comments
Let the finger pointing begin. The fact is that there’s too much of this coming from both sides, both words and deeds. STOP!
Shut the fuck up. We’ve had it with this ‘both sides’ crap.
There is ONE side that constantly screams that their opponents are evil racists, that cops are horrible racists going around executing poor defenseless black men, that openly wish their political opponents dead, and support violence as long as its against the ‘right people’.
Not playing a team sport. Sorry. Don’t need to be reminded about who the players are. Amazing that a comment to withhold judgment gets people so riled.
STFfakUp
Really
No. Go order someone else, please. Would have said nothing more here, but you chose to butt in.
It wasn’t about delaying judgment that got people riled. You “both sides blah blah blah” is dishonest, fence-sitting bullshit and everybody is tired of that cowardice.
A comment to withhold judgment?
A saying I’m fond of is that the person who says “two wrongs don’t make a right” is almost invariably the person who committed the first wrong.
We’ve had enough of that crap. It’s judgment time.
Let us know when a Jew takes hostages at a mosque.
Okay. Will do. Your point?
I’m laughing. Really.
My point is that this is yet another, F-ing Islamic douchebag.
Hello, is this thing on?
Nope.
I understood you, Colonel! That’s not much, but it’s something. 🙂
The “religion of peace” is performing a peaceful protest at this temple, don’tcha know?
That was not known when the comment was made.
His point is pretty obvious to the rest of us.
It was known immediately because the guy was recorded on the synagogue’s FB streaming of the service.
Both sides? Examples please.
Not worth it. Don’t need to prove anything to yahoos that fly off the handle. Not you, of course. Strange the reaction before anyone knew what was happening. Not strange is the team sport aspect.
Wasn’t the Pittsburgh synagogue killer a right winger?
Will take a back seat to no one pointing out antisemitism and left wing hatred. But will not jump the gun just for favor.
Let’s hope no one dies, which is the case at this point.
In the world… one “white supremist” while how many others that dwarf “one” in US … all it takes is one to erase any number of others….
No point when you have no point Mohammed
Translation: you have none.
The Pittsburgh killer was a white supremacist. Whether that makes him a “right winger” depends on how you define that term. He certainly has nothing in common with the right side of US political spectrum; but it would be hard to identify him with the left side of that spectrum either. White supremacy is its own thing, completely alien to modern US politics, and equally alienated from both sides of that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is surreal.
The Pittsburgh synagogue killer hated all Jews and was anti-Trump. He referred to himself as right-wing, but except for that one assertion, I can see no difference between him and at least three of the four-member Democrat Squad.
Hating Trump doesn’t make him “left-wing”. In general it’s as inaccurate to call white supremacists “left-wing” as it is to call them “right-wing”. They don’t fit on the right-left spectrum at all, because they tend not to be concerned about the issues that separate the right and left in US politics. They’re off to the side playing their own game.
Black supremacists also used not to fit on the right-left spectrum, but in recent decades and especially in recent years they have found a ready home on the left.
Oh look, a gaslighting troll
Look, an intolerant person that gets offended by a simple comment to not rush judgment, helping to prove the very point made.
When this happens to you, be sure to be tolerant of that bullet entering your cranium. It’s woke enough to make your head explode!
Maybe a tolerant person can pushed to the edge by constantly being called intolerant.
Er what two sides?
Olinser seems to think you mean Left v Right, Colonel Travis seems to think you mean Jew v Muslim, and there are other possibilities.
Both sides of what? Withhold judgment of whom?
If you mean to withhold judgment of the terrorist’s brother, because we have no proof that he has anything to do with this, then I agree. Otherwise I simply have no idea what you mean.
FWIW, perhaps the perspective from the comment is that Jews, historically, have been the target of both sides, whether people like it or not. Time for Jews to serve as scapegoats and victims to STOP!
If we’re talking about US politics, it’s true that historically there has been antisemitism on both sides, but for the last 25 years or more there has been no room for it in the mainstream right, while it continues to be acceptable on the left. If there are any antisemites left in the GOP they make sure to keep their mouths shut, while in the Democratic Party even when they were on the fringe they never felt the need to hide, and recently they’ve moved ever closer to the mainstream.
But maybe you’re not referring to US politics, in which case you may be correct but I don’t know what that means.
https://fee.org/articles/george-washingtons-letter-to-the-jews/
I went to Catholic schools K-12. I had to go to a secular university to learn about Jew hatred. I was, ok for once I’ll leave out the expletives, amazed. I know the KKK exists. They once tried to hand out booklets at my high school We all laughed. Had they not sat in my Catholic church and seen the congregation? Had they not met my Coastie dad’s cutter’s crew? Or my crew, which came later. That’s probably two sentences too long for an Obama presidential aide.
Israel deserves the Golan heights. More than Putin’s Russia deserves Konigsberg. And if Israel needs the help I’ll drag my tired @$$ out of bed and defend it. Whatever that’s worth.
https://www.uscga.edu/eagle/
The KKK hates Catholics more than they hate Jews. So of course they would not have sat in your church, and seeing your congregation would only have reinforced their views.
But historically there was a lot of antisemitism in the Catholic church. The Church only officially renounced antisemitism in the 1960s, and it took a while for that to percolate down to the masses. In some countries it still hasn’t, but the USA was ripe for the new message, so it didn’t take long here. A lot of American Catholics, and I assume this includes your family, had already abandoned antisemitism in their hearts, and only paid it lip service because the Church told them to, so when it corrected its message they were happy to follow suit.
Yes, Milhouuse, I’m well aware of the KKK’s hatred for us papists. It’s one of the reasons me and the Jewish, Chinese, and Black kids used to laugh at them after taking their brochures.
The only thing more ridiculous was when I attended AFRAM. African American something or other. Some black nationalist something or other. The both types of racists even talked the same. “Read this brother, it;’ll open your eyes.” I could on the one hand learn how the founders of this country were the most racist bastards who ever lived, or on the other were actually black. And they had the dot matrix printer they could misadjust to prove it. They could make George Washington look like Frederick Douglass.
This was back in my younger days, when I had friends on active duty in special forces to keep me out of trouble. They kept me out of fights. Because believe it or not, getting in fights is not a career enhancer. Hollywood is not real life.
Look…we understand you CAIR about this.
WTF are “both sides?” I’m so far only aware of one side. The Jews taken hostage. And since I can do nothing else for them although I wish I could, I will pray for them. Am I not a “side?”
You with the “both sides” crap sound like someone just itching to jump to a conclusion.
Antisemites hate Jews for who they are, not for anything they’ve done.
For antisemites, any Jew is fair game. Let me emhhasize: Jews are hated and reviled not for anything they have done, but because of who they. are.
They need to get one or two competent people in there (maybe some Israeli former commandos in the area) to put a couple of rounds in Siddiqui’s head.
I can hear the main stream media and the usual suspects screaming now! So, it’s a very good idea.
So a story for the day but no follow up ever.
Jihadist don’t often surrender or give up prisoners
“Islamophobia” in three, two, one…. Since.. as we have been told by a soldier of allah… he loves death more than life…. it’s better to consider any solution as shoot to kill.
I look forward to thousands of stories about how CAIR is a left wing group intent on overthrowing the rule of law in this country and are dangerous to our democracy.
Dont hold your breath bc that would be actual journalism that isn’t afraid of left wing censorship and cancellation.
In what way is CAIR “left-wing”? I don’t think it has a place on the US political spectrum. Its interests and agenda have nothing to do with anything that concerns most Americans. Though it is true that at the moment it acts in a loose alliance with some people on the US political left, just as in the ’90s it tried making allies on the US political right, without much success.
Leftists are global Leftism has nothing to do with America, since the Constitution basically bans most of the left’s policies.
The American left is allies wth all of America’s enemies because the American left hates America and has been looking to destroy this country. In that, CAIR is, no doubt, “leftist” in terms of its affiliation with American political organizations.
The lefties are gonna just hate this – but the bad guy is a MUSLIM. You know, a reader of the book that sets forth the rules that Muslims are to hate the Jews and kill them.
Yeah, that book.
Impossible. The real terrorist threat in this country is white supremacy.
Our prof., who is half a country away, has given more info. than the local Dallas paper (staffed by leftist twats.)
Here is the latest from the, ah, news organization, under the laughable headline – What we know about the SWAT situation at a Colleyville synagogue
“Although nothing could be seen in the video, a man could be heard speaking. The sound was not always clear and it was not known whom he was addressing, but at times the man seemed angry. Commenters on Facebook left messages asking for prayers that the situation would end peacefully.”
I feel like I live in the Soviet Union.
I feel like I live in the Soviet Union.”…Ask Prof. Jacobson about that…. my short stay in the early ’70’s especially Moscow brings back memories… of today. So, Comrade Citizen Travis … welcome to the past/present.
Moscow in 1971 was a garrison city … just think of the National Guard in D.C. as a token.
да!
My Eastern Bloc and North Vietnamese friends feel like we’re living in the Soviet Union.
A real Muslim? Or one of the Nation of Islam pretend ones?
Ignore my comment. I should’ve read the article more closely.
Bears!
Where was the FBI’s proactive intelligence gathering?
Doing their best to protect the hostage taker, would be a reasonable guess.
Subotai Bahadur
Checking out a garage pull somewhere.
Well, I am very excited to learn how the fbi knew about this fella and maybr even what communication they had with him.
Infiltrating a prayer meeting.
Those evengelicals will kill us all unless the feds find a way to stop them.
Apparently Jewish Texans don’t carry.
Another question to ask, is this: does the synagogue itself have no firearms policy? I would not be surprised if it did.
It’s a Reform Jewish congregation, on the whole they are very anti-gun, and leftist everything else. My guess would be they fall in line politically with the rest of the URJ, but I don’t know. With some high-profile church shootings in Texas, and with the attempted, Islamic-inspired massacre in Garland (also in DFW) a few years ago, you have to be really stupid to not to try to defend yourself around here.
Reform Judaism: Democrats with holidays.
If it’s a reform congregation then they might well have worked to get the Lady Al Quaeda released, themselves.
“Only a dangerous man can be peaceful. The rest are just harmless.” – Jordan Peterson.
Since it’s Reform, I’m guessing it’s anti-gun. But even an Orthodox synagogue, which especially in Texas could be expected to be on the political right, would be likely to have a policy of “no guns on the Sabbath, unless you have good reason to expect to need one”, for the same reason that it would have the same policy about phones.
Orthodox Jewish law does not allow either of those things to be carried on the Sabbath, but makes an exception for those who reasonably expect to need one for the purpose of saving human lives, such as EMS workers on call, or if it’s an area where an attack is particularly likely.
Not to be snarky about this, but my impression of current events would qualify “because we’re Jewish” as a reasonable expectation of needing the ability to defend themselves.
Not in most places. Certainly not somewhere in suburban Dallas. Even in Israel, in most places there’s no reason for more than one or two people per congregation to be armed on the Sabbath. There are places where more are needed. But the rule is that there has to be a significant risk. So EMS people can carry phones because there are constantly people in need of them. But I doubt there are many places in the USA where the risk of needing a gun is high enough to justify carrying one on the Sabbath. Certain parts of Chicago, maybe, but I don’t think there are any synagogues in those parts.
See, in Texas they don’t even need that justification. Whereas in Massachusetts, New Jersey, or NYC, that justification would be entirely insufficient for the license.
Well, it’s funny that we were discussing this. I just saw this post, purportedly by Itamar Gelbman:
“In the world of ‘you can’t make this stuff up’ … this is my old synagogue, I left due to a few issues, first, the rabbi called Israel an apartheid state against Islam, and second, he didn’t allow his members (including myself) to be armed during services. Now he is held hostage by a Muslim man with a gun….”
Note that (1) I don’t know whether this is really written by Gelbman; (2) Gelbman is not the most credible person in the world. So take it with a grain of salt. Still, it’s interesting, and since we’re talking about a Reform rabbi it’s very plausible.
Can’t really draw any conclusions based on this incident. Since the service was “virtual”, the synagogue was empty except for the Rabbi and three attendants.
When Biden was told (if he was told) probably blamed the unvaccinated for this.
The race and religion of the hostage taker seems like a complete mystery.
What is known about this supporter? Is he an American citizen or an illegss as l immigrant and if the latter how and when did he arrive ?
Since nobody even knows his name, it’s impossible to have any idea about those other things. Wait until he’s identified before jumping to any conclusions.
How about, “it’s the sabbath, and that’s when Jews are here.” Not good enough by Jewish orthodoxy? Contract with us gentiles, if the law allows. I’m a filthy gentile and I’ll happily go to my grave with crucifix on my chest if I prevented one Jew from getting his throat slit. Kind of like the Vatican Guard, which proved their worth more than once.
Paul to the Romans: “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’ As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”
Apropos of nothing, unless you think the survival of Israel is nothing.
http://www.military-today.com/navy/saar_5_class.htm#:~:text=Until%20the%20recent%20introduction%20of%20the%20Sa%27ar%206,corvettes%20formed%20the%20backbone%20of%20Israel%27s%20naval%20force.
The sentiment is appreciated, but almost everywhere in the USA there is no significant risk. These things happen so seldom, and so unpredictably, that the risk is smaller than those we routinely assume every time we get in a car, or cross a road, or even walk on the sidewalk. If medical emergencies were that rare, carrying phones on the Sabbath would not be justified either.
It’s all a matter of assessing the specific situation; there can’t be universal rules. (Or rather, there are two universal rules. 1. It is forbidden to carry arms on the Sabbath; 2. The Bible says “these are the commandments that a man shall do and live by them”, which implies that following them should not result in death. Therefore almost all commandments are suspended if necessary to protect human life.)
Why do you do this, Milhouse? It’s like arguing with a Muslim, who also doesn’t think I can open a book.
https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/13
The goal is life. The same goal as in Christianity.
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Muktze
Carrying firearms on Shabbat
Several questions must be asked:
1) Is carrying a firearm on Shabbat prohibited because it is “Muktzah”?
2) Is wearing a holster containing a weapon considered impermissible carrying on Shabbat (as opposed to carrying a weapon in one’s belt)?
Presumably, one would only carry or use a firearm when threatened or while having a reasonable belief one could be killed or maimed unless one is fully able to defend oneself. What is a reasonable belief of being threatened? Seeing a mob of rioters coming toward you? Seeing a potential attacker in the act of attacking you or someone else? Receiving a specific threat, either by mail, telephone, or in person? Seeing someone who looks threatening (i.e., someone else visibly armed or obviously hostile by his actions or words?)?
Answer
Before answering the question about carrying firearms on Shabbat, I would first like to relate to the concern about safety. Since “Sept. 11” there is a growing concern amongst Diaspora Jewry for their safety. This is a result of the marked rise in anti-Semitism that has been documented worldwide. The potential growth of this anti-Semitism into an international rampage is certainly frightening. However, when we look at this phenomenon in a historical perspective, we see that the Jewish people have suffered waves of anti-Semitism from the time of the first Semite, Abraham, when Nimrod threw him into a fiery furnace for believing in one G-d. As long as there have been Jews, there have been Jew haters.
Rabbi Naftali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin, well known as the Natziv of Volozhin, wrote a treatise on the subject of anti-Semitism known as “Rina shel Torah.” In this study, the Natziv offers an explanation for these waves of anti-Semitism. He says that anti-Semitism is the tool used by G-d to remind the Jews that they are Jews. Sometimes Jews may forget that we were created to be a special people with a Divine calling. When we forget ourselves, the anti-Semites rise up to remind us who we are. Rabbi Berlin further comments that the more we try to fit in with the gentiles, the greater the persecution will be.
Rabbi Yaacov Emden, in the introduction to his scholarly prayer book, “Beit Yaacov,” writes that “When it seems to us, in our present peaceful existence outside the Land of Israel, that we have found another Eretz Yisrael and Jerusalem, this to me is the greatest, deepest, most obvious, and direct cause of all of the awesome, frightening, monstrous, unimaginable destructions that we have experienced in the Diaspora.”[1]
With this introduction, let’s return to the question about carrying a firearm on Shabbat because of the growing danger to Jewish communities throughout the world. First, we would like to remind our readers that one of the activities prohibited on Shabbat is carrying objects through a public domain. Because Jews were lax about this prohibition, the Sages saw a need to reinforce it by also prohibiting the handling of objects that are forbidden to be used on Shabbat. These objects are “muktzah.” Examples are flashlights, computers, and chainsaws.
Regarding the question whether a firearm is “muktzah,” Rabbi Shlomo Goren, the first Chief Rabbi of the Army, and later the Chief Rabbi of Israel, explains in his book, “Mashiv Milchamah,” that regarding Shabbat observance, a firearm is no different than a Kiddush cup, and a holster is no different that a decorative spread used to cover the challah loaves. He maintains that a firearm is something that is needed for Shabbat observance, because it is intended for security, enabling a Jew to celebrate the Shabbat in peace. Even though shooting a gun is a form of igniting fire, something normally prohibited on Shabbat, in situations where life is imperiled, shooting a gun is a mitzvah.[2]
Rabbi Goren states, “Behold, a firearm is meant for firing since it is a mitzvah to shoot both on weekdays or Shabbat, in instances when needed for self-defense or for attacking the enemy. And it is not meant for non-security uses (like sport or hunting) so why should it be considered an object that is forbidden on Shabbat?”[3]
What Rabbi Yehoshua Neurvert writes in his treatise on Shabbat, “Shmirat Shabbat K’Hilchatah,” differs somewhat in his understanding, stating that a firearm is indeed categorized as “muktzah” since firing (ignited fire) is prohibited on Shabbat. Nonetheless, he rules that carrying a firearm on Shabbat is allowed since it has a definite value as a deterrent – discouraging enemies from attacking Jews on Shabbat. Therefore, it is needed for the observance of Shabbat. Furthermore, since carrying a firearm is a deterrent, there is no need for immediate danger in order to carry one. When the enemies of the Jews know that we are ready to defend ourselves, mobs are less likely to rise up against us.
(It is important to note that these rulings apply to communities where there is an “eruv,” a legal halachic enclosure, which permits carrying objects on Shabbat.)
When this question was asked many years ago, Rabbi Meir Kahane, may G-d avenge his death, had a no-nonsense answer. Jews in Crown Heights and Boro Park, New York asked certain American rabbis how they could prevent being mugged on Shabbat. They were told to carry ten-dollar bills to give to their muggers, so they wouldn’t be beaten. Rabbi Kahane protested this response, saying, “Instead of considering the permissibility of carrying money on the Shabbat because of the need to save lives, let us consider the permissibility of carrying guns on Shabbat for the defense and welfare of our Jewish communities.”[4]
——————————————————————
1. For more on this theme, see the book, TORAT ERETZ YISRAEL, The Teachings Of
HaRav Tzvi Yehuda Kook.
2. “Mashiv Milchamah,” Vol. 2, Folio 54.
3. Loc cited, 20:12, subsection 28.
4. “Jewish Press,” October 17, 1975, article, “A Jew Dies in Brooklyn.”
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That article is extremely misleading.
First, it explicitly says that it applies only in communities where an eruv exists. That would not be the case in Colleyville, Texas.
Second, Shlomo Goren was an extremely controversial figure, and his rabbinic authority is not accepted by most communities outside his own constituency, the National Religious sector in Israel.
Third, his assumption that a gun’s sole purpose is self-defense, and is not meant for non-defensive uses, is highly questionable. Self-defense is one of a gun’s uses, not necessarily its primary use, or its most usual use.
Fourth, even defensive firing of a gun is intrinsically a violation of the Sabbath; it’s just that the need to defend oneself overrides that violation. Thus the gun is still an object whose purpose is prohibited, and thus may not be carried without the justification of a significant threat to life.
Fifth, both rabbis Samson and Goren wrote specifically in the context of Israel, where the nature and level of the danger is very different from the USA.
Likewise Rabbi Kahane (another extremely controversial figure, by the way, but for different reasons) was specifically referring to the circumstances of bad neighborhoods in Brooklyn in the 1960s and ’70s, and specifically in a context where it had already been determined that a threat to life existed and the Sabbath had to be violated, and the only question was which violation to recommend. It was in that specific context that he said, if you’re going to carry something for the mugger, better to carry a gun to shoot him than money to placate him. And in that context I doubt there’s anyone who would disagree. But none of this is relevant to the ordinary context, where that level of danger does not exist. I walk in Brooklyn every Saturday and carry neither money nor a weapon, and don’t expect to need either, because this isn’t (yet) the ’70s, and the areas I walk through are not even nearly that bad.
Statistically, this is a fallacious argument. It works equally well for not installing smoke detectors, extinguishers, AEDs, and pretty much any other emergency equipment.
None of those things involve violating the Sabbath. Carrying a gun, or a phone, does, and therefore needs to be justified. If there is a significant risk that it will be needed to save a person’s life, that is enough to justify it; but the risk must be significant.
God doesn’t break His promises.
Sounds like it is over…..
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article257360862.html
If only we still had a muslim ban.
Since we don’t yet know who this person was, what makes you think he was an immigrant from one of the countries targeted by Trump’s ban?
Thanks to the miracle of open borders, the adherents of the religion of peace can come from anywhere. LIke lice.
Hey, Milhouse. What do you want to bet the next “Swedish man” who joins in a gang rape of a woman on a ferry to Helsinki isn’t a blonde haired blue eyed Lutheran.
What has that got to do with the price of fish? BillyHW is assuming, without any foundation whatsoever, that this person is an immigrant from one of the countries on the Trump ban. I want to know what on earth leads him to that specific assumption. If you share his assumption then by all means answer the question, but your comment is completely irrelevant and nonresponsive.
You said carrying a weapon on Shabbat was illegal. My response was spot on.
In any case, can you at least admit that per rabbinical authority and per the Torah carrying weapons can be permitted on the sabbath. Yes or no
Using weapons is allowed.
Or, don’t Be stubborn and commit to the suicidal premise that Jews want to commit suicide.
No, you’re assuming he was referring to Trump’s implementation of the recommendations of Obama’s administration on banning people from specific sources of terrorism.
He may have been making the quite reasonable point that banning muslims from America would improve the country.
Arminius, your three answers don’t belong on this thread. This thread is in response to BillyHW, and not about the Sabbath. But to answer your question, carrying weapons violates the Sabbath, just like carrying a phone or driving a car, but the Sabbath may be violated to save lives, so if that necessitates doing these things it’s permitted. Whether it does so must be decided case by case.
Adult, the thread is about BillyHW’s implied claim that this would not have happened “If only we still had a muslim ban”. Since the only “muslim ban” we have ever had was Trump’s ban on admission of non-resident aliens from specific countries, that could only have prevented this attack if the gunman did come here from one of those specific countries.
There are now reports, apparently confirmed by the UK government, that the gunman was a UK citizen, and therefore that ban would not have kept him out. But there’s no official confirmation yet, so it might not be true. Let’s keep an open mind until we find out.
As for “banning muslims from America”, that isn’t possible without a constitutional amendment, so it doesn’t even come into consideration. It’s like wishing the police could see the future, and thus could have been waiting inside the place to arrest this guy as soon as he pulled a weapon.
Now don’t get me started on the price of fish!
Clearly a lone wolf like that “white guy” in Colorado a while back. No problems at all with the religion of peace!
A lone wolf is a wolf that was sent out from the wolf pack on a solo mission.
“…The elite FBI hostage rescue team, who flew into DFW earlier that evening, executed the explosion and entry…”
I am not unfamiliar with executing a dynamic entry.
I’m also not affiliated with this company.
https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/custom-handguns/1911-professional-45-acp-handgun
“…Originally developed for the FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team (HRT), the Professional 1911 provides high-end custom shop features in an ideal platform for withstanding the rugged use of duty with one of Americas most elite units…”
When I was in the Navy back in the late 1900s/early 2000 we had to make do with whatever was left over after the Korean war.
Korean war. The Marines were getting the good stuff from Vietnam.
Thank God a happy ending
Yes. An even happier ending would have been had a member of the congregation been packing heat and blew the perp away from what passes for the back pew, ‘
I don’t want to pass along any stereotypes. I was thinking Milhouse can’t be the only Jewish member of this congregation, so to speak. And obviously Jews who are not Messianic and remain traditional Jews do not accept Christ as the Messiah.
But I know for a fact he’s full of s***.
http://openingtheseals.com/matthew-24-2/the-pharisees-ask-which-is-the-greatest-commandment/
Your Lord whom you are commanded to love gave you life. You love your life as a gift from God. You can’t give yourself life, you can’t give others life, only God can give life. Treasure it.
Colonel Colt gives you the means.
What does the IDF have to say about Masada falling again, bro?
Not sure what you mean to indicate by your link to Matthew 24:2. The relevant link is to Luke 6:3-4 and Mark 2:25-26. In those places Jesus repeats the rabbis’ teaching that David was permitted to eat the show-bread because his life was in danger, and that overrode the prohibition on non-priests eating it. Likewise a danger to life justifies violating the Sabbath. But that requires that there be an actual danger to life. David could not have eaten the bread if he were not actually starving — and therefore we must assume that on the day in question Jesus’ disciples were also at risk of their lives, and that is why they were allowed to pick the grain.
I’m not officially a rabbi, since I haven’t taken the exams on the laws of mixtures of forbidden and permitted foods, and of meat and milk, but I’m as familiar with the laws of the Sabbath as most rabbis are.
https://www.academia.edu/9628488/Sabbath_Observance_Sabbath_Innovation_The_Hasmoneans_and_Their_Legacy_as_Interpreters_of_the_Law
I’m aware there are more than one interpretation of what does or does not constitute a violation of observance of the sabbath.
Since I’m not a suicidal dumb ass, I lean toward the one.
I realize you don’t accept Christian doctrine. But Christians weren’t making things up out of whole cloth. I find it amazing that 21st century Jews imagine that 1st century Jews could have accepted so much of Christ if it weren’t accepted by Jews already, during the second temple period.
And yes, I’m more than willing to turn the other cheek. I’m not looking for loopholes in the divine law, as so many are.
Who was the dead hostage taker? What was his background citizenship and immigration status? Who else shares his sympathies to free a violent terrorist who is serving 86 years in a nearby Federal prison for acts of terror committed against Americans in Afghanistan? Why did he specifically commit hostage taking in a synagogue? Some of the answers may be more obvious than others
They’re not saying yet, but there’s a report that he was a UK citizen, and that the UK government has confirmed this. That still doesn’t tell us much. We don’t even know for sure that he was Moslem, although that seems like an extremely good bet.
Can you bring a rabbi into this? Im not much for argument from authority but this time I’ll make an exception.
I’ll pretend it has worth
And, as sure as the day is long, the vile Dhimmi-crats are doing their full dhimmitude song and dance, first perfected under narcissist-incompetent, Obama — callously downplay, trivialize and ignore Muslim terrorist violence against Jews, and, deny that such violence represents a targeted attack (as opposed to “mental illness,” “drug use,” or, some other absurdly proffered, alleged motive on the part of the attacker), while failing to call a spade a spade and concede the supremacist, hate-filled, decidedly Islamic motives of the Muslim terrorist attacker.
Despicable and entirely predictable.
Remember the great line from the searchers The only good Comanche is A dead one Ditto for violent supporters of terrorists regardless of their nationality