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Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley Reportedly Promised To Alert China In Advance Of Attack

Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley Reportedly Promised To Alert China In Advance Of Attack

Bob Woodward and Robert Costa report that Milley secretly called the head of China’s military in closing days of Trump administration: “General Li, you and I have known each other for now five years. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise.”

According to a CNN report on an upcoming book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley all-but staged a coup against outgoing President Trump, going so far as to organize the national security apparatus to monitor and interfere with any Orders Trump may have given to the military. In the most startling claim, Milley reported secretly called the chief of the Chinese military to assure him that if the U.S. were to attack China, Milley would give the Chinese military advance notice.

Of course, the way CNN spins it is that Milley thought Trump was crazy and dangerous, and he was seeking to protect the nation via extra-constitutional means:

Two days after the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, President Donald Trump’s top military adviser, Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley, single-handedly took secret action to limit Trump from potentially ordering a dangerous military strike or launching nuclear weapons, according to “Peril,” a new book by legendary journalist Bob Woodward and veteran Washington Post reporter Robert Costa….

Milley worried that Trump could ‘go rogue,’ the authors write.

“You never know what a president’s trigger point is,” Milley told his senior staff, according to the book….

In response, Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon’s war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.

“No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,” Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood….

Milley had already had two back-channel phone calls with China’s top general, who was on high alert over the chaos in the US….

He told his top service chiefs to watch everything “all the time.” He called the director of the National Security Agency, Paul Nakasone, and told him, “Needles up … keep watching, scan.” And he told then-CIA Director Gina Haspel, “Aggressively watch everything, 360.”
The authors write, ‘Milley was overseeing the mobilization of America’s national security state without the knowledge of the American people or the rest of the world.’

Woodward and Costa also write that ‘some might contend that Milley had overstepped his authority and taken extraordinary power for himself,’ but he believed his actions were ‘a good faith precaution to ensure there was no historic rupture in the international order, no accidental war with China or others, and no use of nuclear weapons.’

WaPo gives more detail on the call with the Chinese military:

In a pair of secret phone calls, Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, assured his Chinese counterpart, Gen. Li Zuocheng of the People’s Liberation Army, that the United States would not strike, according to a new book by Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward and national political reporter Robert Costa.

One call took place on Oct. 30, 2020, four days before the election that unseated President Trump, and the other on Jan. 8, 2021, two days after the Capitol siege carried out by his supporters in a quest to cancel the vote.

The first call was prompted by Milley’s review of intelligence suggesting the Chinese believed the United States was preparing to attack. That belief, the authors write, was based on tensions over military exercises in the South China Sea, and deepened by Trump’s belligerent rhetoric toward China.

“General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay,” Milley told him. “We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.”

In the book’s account, Milley went so far as to pledge he would alert his counterpart in the event of a U.S. attack, stressing the rapport they’d established through a backchannel. “General Li, you and I have known each other for now five years. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise.”

Li took the chairman at his word, the authors write in the book, “Peril,” which is set to be released next week.

In the second call, placed to address Chinese fears about the events of Jan. 6, Li wasn’t as easily assuaged, even after Milley promised him, “We are 100 percent steady. Everything’s fine. But democracy can be sloppy sometimes.”

I have not seen any report of confirmation or denial from Milley, or independent confirmation. So despite two WaPo name-brand reporters on the story, it’s still only “reportedly” the case.

But if true, then this comes close to an extraconstitutional coup as we have ever seen as a nation. There are means of removing a president under the constitution, but the military going rogue is not one of them. And it’s a tricky question under what circumstances the military is oligated to refuse an illegal order — but no such Order ever was given by Trump.

Trump calls Milley’s alleged conduct treason:

Former President Donald Trump said Gen. Mark Milley may have committed treason with secret calls to China at the end of his administration.

The ex-commander in chief called into Newsmax on Tuesday to respond to a new book that claimed Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, promised to give his Chinese counterpart advance notice if Trump ordered a strike against China.

“If it is actually true — which is hard to believe that he would have called China and done these things and was willing to advise them of an attack or in advance of an attack — that’s treason,” he told Sean Spicer and Lyndsay Keith.

Even Alexander Vindman say Milley needs to resign:

Alexander Vindman, a key witness for House Democrats’ impeachment investigation against President Trump, called on Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley to resign on Tuesday, following revelations that Milley secretly called his counterpart in China to offer assurances that the U.S. would give warning in case of a nuclear assault.

“If this is true GEN Milley must resign,” Vindman wrote on Twitter. “He usurped civilian authority, broke Chain of Command, and violated the sacrosanct principle of civilian control over the military.

Vindman added, “It’s an extremely dangerous precedent. You can’t simply walk away from that.”

We have seen this movie before. When it comes to Trump Derangement Syndrome, real life is stranger than fiction:

Don’t doubt for a second that part of the motivation for the book is 2024 – to continue to portray Trump as unfit for office, not to take Milley to task. And it’s entirely plausible that Milley leaked the story himself thinking it would make him look like a hero:

Milley has to address these allegations. Maybe he’ll do that when he gets over his “white rage.”

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Comments


 
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Fluffy Foo Foo | September 14, 2021 at 8:06 pm

Richard Grenell says to not trust anything Woodward writes. Focusing on Milley shields all the other culprits, I would imagine.


     
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    JHogan in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | September 14, 2021 at 8:49 pm

    The NSA probably knows if its true or not. Which means the CIA probably knows, too.

    And if it is true the leak probably came from one of them.

    I’m sure the FBI will get right on it, as they did with Flynn. /s


     
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    Olinser in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | September 14, 2021 at 8:55 pm

    Maybe. But the fact that as far as I can see, there HAS NOT been an actual denial of this yet, is saying an awful lot.


       
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      JHogan in reply to Olinser. | September 14, 2021 at 9:05 pm

      If what I’ve read is true they admit to the phone call(s) to the Chinese.

      No word on what exactly was said or not said.

      As if it’s difficult to guess what would prompt Milley to call the Chinese after Jan 6 and the seditious phone call he received from Crazy Nancy. And not inform anyone in President Trump’s inner circle about it.

      If the FBI were consistent they would now ‘interview’ and try to entrap Milley like they did Flynn. But we know that won’t happen.


         
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        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JHogan. | September 15, 2021 at 8:54 am

        It would not be unusual for Milley to call foreign peers after certification of the election to let them know his future, for example, that he expects to stay on or be replaced by the incoming administration and if the later, a timeline and if known, a likely successor.

        But if what is being reported is true, the man must go.

        My initial read was that Milley was sucking up to Pelosi because he knew where the power would be after Biden was installed. Inserting himself between the president and the president’s lawful authority was very bad, but it seems to have been Pelosi’s idea which Milley then accepted to please her (again, my read). All this shows he is more attuned to politics than duty – look at the results in Afghanistan for confirmation.

        But then the call to the Chinese – that was not required by Pelosi. That was all on him, which indicates he was a willing accomplice. What we effectively have is a military mutineer in the form of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And unless something else comes out, it was all so unnecessary as there was never a threat of war between China and the US. In fact, it seems Trump was desperately trying to end and avoid wars being chased by the establishment, Remember that Trump was trying to extract the US from Syria and Afghanistan, and when he came to office he was given a serious crisis and loud beating war drums over North Korea by the Obama administration which Trump had to defuse with non-standard diplomacy against the advice and counsel of the elites in the foreign policy establishment.

        These unelected officials simply did not like Trump, so they tried to undermine him at every turn from the very start. It started at DOJ and the IC, and eventually wandered into the Pentagon.

        The democrats may take false comfort because it seems these unelected elites are on their side, but a precedent is set, and they could turn on them as quickly if it so suites.

        A massive purge is required. This is quite dangerous and a direct threat to representative government, way more so than anything that happened on Jan 06.


     
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    Joe-dallas in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | September 14, 2021 at 9:01 pm

    Another statement attributed to Milley (mouse) is that trump became unstable after losing the election. While ever first term president that lost reelection has become depressed, and I am sure trump became depressed, the statement that trump became unstable ready to punch the buttons for the nuclear launch codes seems highly hyped. (does biden even know the nuclear launch codes exist?


     
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    mark311 in reply to Fluffy Foo Foo. | September 15, 2021 at 2:36 am

    Who the hell cares what Richard Grenell says, he was a Trump political appointee with no knowledge about anything useful other than he was a ‘loyalist’.


 
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Doc-Wahala | September 14, 2021 at 8:15 pm

Mikey is demonstrating what makes him a good general…. For the other side.


     
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    fscarn in reply to Doc-Wahala. | September 14, 2021 at 9:46 pm

    The whole thing reminds me of President Muffley calling Premier Belch,

    Well, why do you think I’m calling you?…to work some-
    thing out on this disarmament thing…Uh-huh…
    Sure, but you haven’t been reasonable…Uh-huh…
    Uh-huh…Look Belch…Look, we’re wasting time…
    Uh-huh…a base commander…We’re not sure…
    Well, we think he’s gone psycho…Had a mental
    breakdown…We’re trying to do that…We’re
    doing that right now…Well, we’ve got our fingers
    crosses…we’re hoping…We’re trying that too…
    Uh-huh…Uh-huh…Uh-huh…That’s not fair for you
    to say…We’re doing everything we possibly can
    …Certainly…Sure I can imagine…Uh-huh…

    PRESIDENT MUFFLEY (cont)
    Uh-huh…Uh-huh…Look, there’s something
    else. We want to give your Air Staff a
    complete rundown on the targets, flight
    plans, and defensive systems of the planes
    …No, it’s on the level…Sure I hate to
    do a thing like that, but at this point it’s
    got to be a case of one hand scratches the
    other…co-operate,

There is only one person who can do anything immediately–and this requires immediate action–and that is the President of the United States. Milley should be immediately relieved of duties or suspended until this has been investigated to see if it is true. NSA keeps all records of phone calls, emails, electronic transmissions, etc. and this can be verified one way or the other.

But I am wasting my time writing this for nothing will be done. So go back to whatever you were doing before you wasted your time reading this.

All of our institutions are lost. Are there constitutional means of fixing this? What are the chances of them working?

Some thoughts.

1) This is from Bob Woodward, who is known to just make stuff up when it suits him. (Example: https://apnews.com/article/6aa5412aa364060df60a09f2c5e2e41c)

2) Since it involves President Trump, the chance that the story just plain fake news is increased.

3) Even if the story is true, nothing will happen to the general over it. He’s too big a fish (and too anti-Trump) to be treated like a regular person.

4) Too bad. For Afghanistan alone General Milley deserves every bit of punishment the system can possibly heap on him.


     
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    CommoChief in reply to irv. | September 14, 2021 at 10:05 pm

    ‘Too big a fish?’ No. There are 15 Four Star Generals in the Army alone. More in the Navy, USMC and AF. There are more total general officers than Senators maybe more than Congress. Becoming a GO is a big deal inside the military and has lot’s of perks and prestige while in uniform. After that? Not so much. Even for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

    To put it in perspective name the last five Chairman off the top of your head. I can’t do it and I actually pay attention to this stuff. Bottom line is he ain’t too big a fish to face consequences. The questions are did this occur and if so what level of consequences. Milley is an arrogant guy. He rubs people the wrong way intentionally which means he doesn’t have a ton of allies in DC. The d/progressive will happily shank him despite his actions to tow their ideological line.


       
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      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | September 15, 2021 at 9:07 am

      Rank inflation is a problem, especially for general and flag officers. Being a COL used to be a big deal. They commanded or ran large and important organizations. In the Navy, LCDR’s (O-4’s) used to command submarines and destroyers. Now you see CAPT (O-6’s) in charge.

      I get that these platforms are more complex now and can have a firepower beyond the imagination of earlier eras such as SAC bomber and ballistic missile wings and submarines armed with hundreds of nuclear warheads, but the rank inflation has spread far and wide.

      Reducing the number of O-7’s and above has been contemplated many times. but never pursued with vigor by the Pentagon, for some reason.


         
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        CommoChief in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | September 15, 2021 at 10:15 am

        BSR,

        The rank inflation is problem. There are folks promoted well beyond their level of competence. Some of them are straight out of Gilbert and Sullivan; ‘the very model of a modern Major General’.

        IMO it stems from three things.
        1. Simple bloat and creeping expansion of bureaucracy.
        2. Affirmative Action /diversity push for GO who are not ‘white male’.
        3. Realization for the need to promote a baseline number of competent people to do the ‘important’ jobs.


 
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The Friendly Grizzly | September 14, 2021 at 8:39 pm

People used to be shot or hanged for treason.

Court martial?

Blindfold or no, Mr. Milley?

Jackasses throw around the word too casually.

But if true, THIS IS LITERALLY TREASON.

IF TRUE, obviously, because I don’t trust Woodward for shit (there’s claims that there are others that were present that are supposedly willing to testify – which is bullshit, they’re only trying to save their own skins AFTER it went public), we’ll see if it’s true.

IF TRUE, this is INSANE on multiple levels. If it’s true, this stupid piece of woke trash telling a Chinese general this is telling him that he thinks that there’s actually a reasonable chance that Trump would order an attack (WHICH IS INSANE), and that could trigger China to launch a pre-emptive strike!

Furthermore, it’s telling them that if China attacks Taiwan, pieces of shit like Milley WILL NOT support military action to defend it.

He’s not elected. Nobody has given him the authority to make these communications with foreign governments.

This is literally fucking treason if true.


     
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    irv in reply to Olinser. | September 14, 2021 at 9:01 pm

    It sounds more like conspiracy to commit treason but the penalty should be the same either way.

    Or cause China to launch a strike knowing there’s a coup afoot…..


     
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    Milhouse in reply to Olinser. | September 14, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    No, this is very much not treason.

    IF TRUE, obviously, because I don’t trust Woodward for shit

    Agreed 100%.

    If it’s true […] this is telling him that he thinks that there’s actually a reasonable chance that Trump would order an attack (WHICH IS INSANE), and that could trigger China to launch a pre-emptive strike!

    No, that is the exact opposite of what it is. If true, he explicitly told the Chinese general that he is confident there is no chance of Trump doing such a thing. It was the Chinese who were worrying about it, and Milley, fearing they might do exactly what you said, was talking them down. Rather like Michael Flynn talking the Russians down from overreacting to 0bama’s “parting gift”. He should have informed Trump first and asked his permission, but failing to do so is not treason. Again, if true.

    Furthermore, it’s telling them that if China attacks Taiwan, pieces of shit like Milley WILL NOT support military action to defend it.

    No, it is not telling them that at all. Obviously if China initiates hostilities the USA will respond. This is all about telling them “We’re not planning to attack you, so calm the **** down and don’t force us to”.

    That’s the opposite of treason. Far from adhering to the enemy’s cause and promoting it at our expense, it’s protecting our interest and preventing an enemy attack.

    The promise to warn of any attack is not treason either. He made it because he was completely confident that there would be no occasion to give such a warning. The whole point was to have the Chinese share that confidence. Which is good, because it was true.

    Now had he unexpectedly received an order to attack China after all, and had he kept his promise, that would have been treason. But we are given no reason to suppose that he would have done that.

      I haven’t seen anyone agree with your position
      Are you the lawyer the Clintons used? 🙂


         
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        Milhouse in reply to rduke007. | September 14, 2021 at 11:46 pm

        Do you have any substantive rebuttal? Truth isn’t established by popularity, especially with some of the malicious lowlifes who comment here.


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 9:21 am

          “Do you have any substantive rebuttal?”

          I am only speaking for myself, but I do not see your take on this. Also, if reporting is true, the Chinese did not call Milley, Milley called them and basically told them he was in charge of the military – not the President, and would inform them and intervene if the president ordered any provocative military action. This is highly inappropriate, again, if true.

          In fact, Milley has the option to willfully disobey lawful orders from the president and suffer the consequences, good or bad. But he does not presume to go about and tell his subordinates to disobey orders from the president, especially before any such orders are actually issued. It is basically a coup or a mutiny at least.. He declared he is in charge and not the president. This is unacceptable. But it’s not treason, true.

          This is the internet. You know the answer

          Grow a sense of humor


       
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      Char Char Binks in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 7:30 am

      My first reaction was that Milley ought to be hanged. I’m still leaning towards that.

      Still, Mr. Millhouse, I appreciate your thoughtful, informed dissent. It’s as needed on the right as it is lacking, and nearly prohibited, on the left, and mostly absent in the general culture.


         
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        moonmoth in reply to Char Char Binks. | September 15, 2021 at 10:15 am

        “Informed dissent”? Balderdash. Millhouse is up to his usual posturing as being the smartest kid in the class. And he’s dead wrong about the legality of Milley’s supposed phone calls, and also about the nature and extent of Milley’s authority to give orders. See https://youtu.be/NH69v6IExpQ?t=95.


           
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          Char Char Binks in reply to moonmoth. | September 15, 2021 at 11:33 am

          I didn’t say he was right. I will say that Millhouse is very logical, knowledgeable, and is willing to think for himself and stick to his guns, despite drawing fire. I value his dissent. He doesn’t simply fall in line, or go along to get along.

          We need that — it is the antithesis of PC of any political stripe, and the antidote for it.


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to moonmoth. | September 15, 2021 at 12:41 pm

          “I didn’t say he was right. I will say that Millhouse is very logical, knowledgeable, and is willing to think for himself and stick to his guns, despite drawing fire.”

          Milhouse is a great asset to the site, even if only 1/10th of his comments pass muster from site monitors. All of what you say is true, except in this instance he is not knowledgeable. This is not really a knock. He just has no military experience and lacks proper understanding and context which distorts his analysis of the problem discussed in this particular thread. Here, he is way off base, but the comments he makes are nonetheless very useful, as they provoke discussion and tease out some the points and considerations that elude him.

          I would miss Milhouse greatly if aliens (illegal or the space variety) were to suddenly whisk him away and deprive us of his commentary.


       
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      caseoftheblues in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 8:39 am

      Millhouse…full time apologist for all things evil part-time lawyer.

      I suggest you educate yourself before talking out of your hindquarters…which you are. See UCMJ


         
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        SaltyDonnie in reply to caseoftheblues. | September 15, 2021 at 2:18 pm

        I’ve seen this with lawyers that know the actual, correct answer to a question, but conceal pertinent facts or controlling law, don’t disclose them in arguments to the judge, and projects an argument that looks, on the surface, valid. But it’s not. If you know enough about the topic they’re’ talking about it, you recognize what they’re leaving out and how it affects their position.


     
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    Danny in reply to Olinser. | September 19, 2021 at 11:36 pm

    Why would he lie about this? Mark Milley is an ideological ally and friend to his cause. He also has not denied this when asked.

His assessment of Donald Trump is on a par with his assessment of the Taliban.

This makes no sense. The Chicoms don’t trust each other, so why should they believe the vague promise of an American general?

I think there WAS a conversation – and it was FAR worse than the antiseptic (and unbelievable) version the authors want you to believe.

    If I had to bet money, I think Milley promised (or at least hinted) that he would remove Trump in a coup if Trump tried to move militarily against the Chinese. This would be tantamount to treason, and the Chicoms would know it. I don’t think they would have taken Milley seriously otherwise.

    This book looks and smells like a kind of public plea bargaining: Milley is willing to admit to a tiny misdemeanor of “loving his country too much” instead of the felony he likely committed. The top brass at the Pentagon was openly disrespectful and insubordinate to Trump for the entirity of his administration, so is Milley promising the Chicoms a coup after a questionable election really so implausible?


     
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    Milhouse in reply to Recovering Lutheran. | September 14, 2021 at 9:55 pm

    Because he wasn’t talking to “the Chicoms”. He was talking to one person with whom he had established a personal friendship. And he was putting that friendship on the line, saying “Look, you know me, and I’m telling you the president is in charge here and has no hostile intentions to you. If that weren’t the case I would tell you. I wouldn’t keep you in the dark. So calm down and make sure you guys don’t do anything stupid that would force us to attack you.” Think of a hostage negotiator.


       
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      texansamurai in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 10:44 pm

      Because he wasn’t talking to “the Chicoms”. He was talking to one person with whom he had established a personal friendship
      ___________________________________________________________________________________

      if true, he was in fact speaking to the ranking officer in the chinese military–rather than thinking of some “hostage negotiator,” think of kerry–also, pledging to inform a potential adversary of any impending attack will clearly place the lives of our military in jeopardy

      the rest of your take on the conversation is pure conjecture


         
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        Milhouse in reply to texansamurai. | September 14, 2021 at 10:49 pm

        No, pledging to inform a potential adversary of any impending attack, knowing that no attack is pending, and with the purpose of assuring the enemy of that fact, did not place the lives of our military in jeopardy. On the contrary, it made the lives of our military safer, by reducing the chance of a Chinese attack.

        Keeping that promise — if things changed and an attack were planned — that would be treason.


           
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          mailman in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 2:55 am

          You’re a fucking moron 🤣

          Firstly, the cunt shouldn’t have been talking to the enemy FULLSTOP! It’s not his place to be telling them fucking anything.

          Secondly, the Chingalings had a working relationship with Trump and probably knew him a lot better than the Trump the Democrats loved to talk about. I would hazard a guess that the Chings had a better understanding of Trump than the Democrats EVER did.

          Thirdly, I highly doubt the Chinese feared an attack. This potential attack is only being talked up by Democrats as a way of justifying what this cunt did.

          Finally, he needs to be marched off and never heard from ever again…along with his mates.

      Because he wasn’t talking to “the Chicoms”. He was talking to one person with whom he had established a personal friendship.

      Personal friendship …. sure. Leaving aside the fact that China’s state security routinely listens in on conversations involving anyone not named Mao Zedong, and also leaving aside the fact that no one in the Chinese government so much as goes to the loo without securing permission first, is it credible that a Chinese military leader will place any worth on a “friendship” with a hated imperialist running dog of war American General? Milley has proven himself to be an ass-kissing incompetent boob, and it seems unlikely that General Li has any respect for him, let alone friendship.

      Many American military leaders no longer believe in the Constitution, separation of powers, the rule of law, or civilian control of the military. But the Chinese military leaders believe in Communism with every fiber of their being. Why would a Chinese General risk everything for the sake of a friendship with an enemy he has been trained to hate? Milley is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and it is possible he really believed Li was his friend, but the fairy tale Woodward & Co. is spinning does not sound credible in the least. If there were conversations between Li and Milley, I strongly doubt they bore any resemblance to what Woodward & Co. wants us to believe.


       
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      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 9:29 am

      ““Look, you know me, and I’m telling you the president is in charge here and has no hostile intentions to you.”

      Except that is not the reporting. The reporting is that Milley was saying the president was not in charge of his faculties, and was, indeed, irrational and unpredictable, and he told his staff to not obey the president, but only his orders, and he then called his Chinese counterpart to express this, and to also tell him not to worry because he had taken charge of the military and would intervene, and if he could not stop it, would call to tell them what was about to transpire, That is far different from your explanation, and a better reflection of the report.


       
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      moonmoth in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 10:17 am

      As is usually the case when you’re posturing as being the smartest kid in the class, you’re dead wrong. In this case, about the legality of Milley’s supposed phone calls, and also about the nature and extent of Milley’s authority to give orders. See https://youtu.be/NH69v6IExpQ?t=95.


       
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      GWB in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 2:20 pm

      Milhouse, while I agree that this could be interpreted moderately, the fact you’re arguing that as the fact position, instead of the likelihood is why you’re taking all the hits. Learn to believe that some people really are as rotten as they can be.


 
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Colonel Travis | September 14, 2021 at 8:53 pm

I don’t know if this is true but every time I see this jackass I think he is a goofball John Goodman character in some movie.

Nope.

Real guy with real power.
This country is governed by idiots.

And if true, others in high positions, military and intelligence, knew about it and kept quiet or cooperated.

We’re gonna need a bigger gallows.


 
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Subotai Bahadur | September 14, 2021 at 9:08 pm

Treason in favor of an enemy country is a career enhancer in today’s military. We are beyond electoral means of changing this.

Subotai Bahadur

Nothing surprises me, anymore, regarding the Deep State, Dhimmi-crat subversives’ lawless, treasonous behavior and antics. President Trump’s tenure merely emboldened these greasy, duplicitous, self-serving narcissist-snakes and brought their antics out in the open, out of the shadows. Self-worshipful, corrupt snakes such as Comey, Strzok, McCabe, Vindman, Ciamarella, Milley, et al. Too many reprobates to name.

It’s patently obvious that our intelligence agencies and our military leadership have been completely and thoroughly compromised by Dhimmi-crat subversives and fanatics, to say nothing of China’s likely having scores of moles and personnel on its payroll.

A wholesale investigation and house-cleaning is in order, but, of course, the Dhimmi-crats at the Pentagon are conveniently busy chasing the phantom contrivance of “white supremacy.”

I’m no fan of Milley nor a fan of Woodward either. Regardless of whether he did what he is accused of doing, he probably has no real support in DC and needs to go. But then again, he is not the only one who should leave in disgrace.

How does a dimwit like this even become a general?


 
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divemedic | September 14, 2021 at 9:48 pm

The fact that Milley unilaterally decided to disobey the orders of the Commander in Chief, while coopting his immediate subordinates is mutiny means that the US military is no longer under civilian control. If Milley doesn’t obey orders, then no one who is in the military under his command has any obligation to obey the orders of their superiors.
A nuclear armed military, filled with personnel who won’t obey orders is truly scary for me. Picture some nonbinary general getting control of a few missiles and declaring himself to be dictator.
This also has to be scaring the hell out of Biden and Pelosi. Remember that they hid behind the military in Fortress Capitol back in February. Now imagine that you are them, but you can’t even trust them. There is no limit to what a paranoid wannabe dictator will do to stay in power. That should scare all of us.


     
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    Milhouse in reply to divemedic. | September 14, 2021 at 10:02 pm

    The fact that Milley unilaterally decided to disobey the orders of the Commander in Chief

    Huh? Where did you say any indication of that?! According to the story he told his subordinates to do everything by the book, which is exactly as it should be. And that means not acting on irregular orders that didn’t come down the chain of command.


       
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      CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 10:25 pm

      The issue is he is not in a command position. The folks he was ordering are not his subordinates. The role of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is to be the principal military advisor to POTUS. True he is a 4 star and you don’t tell a four star to eff off. However the fact is that legally he has no command authority to issue orders. It would be like some random full bird COL showing up to a Company Motor Pool and telling the the Company Commander to do x and y. It doesn’t work like that, hell it can’t work like that.

      Sure a COL out ranks an Army Captain but that doesn’t make his orders lawful. That guy, COL or not, lacks the Command Authority to issue those orders. If this were not so there would be absolute chaos. Every 2LT could run around to a different BN and BDE issuing orders to those units Non Commissioned Officers.

      Bottom line is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is an advisor to the POTUS. He has great influence on the Military obviously, but legally has absolutely zero command authority. The actual line of command authority goes from POTUS to the Sec DEF to the Sec Army.


         
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        Milhouse in reply to CommoChief. | September 14, 2021 at 10:52 pm

        And that was his point. Don’t take orders directly from the president, follow the procedure. And he fits in somewhere in that procedure.


           
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          CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 11:38 pm

          Milhouse,

          Please no. The POTUS issues the orders. The CJC role is to give advice to POTUS about the orders. The CJC is not doing it ‘by the book’ in calling a meeting to circumvent or undermine the authority of POTUS. It really is that simple.

          This is too serious to attempt to be pedantic, especially when there isn’t any grey area or nuance to seize upon. If true, this is a subversion of authority by the uniformed military.


           
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          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 11:50 pm

          How exactly can one subvert authority by telling people to follow procedure? That makes no sense at all! Telling people to follow the established procedure is strengthening authority!


           
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          mailman in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 2:58 am

          Fuck off General Fuckwit 🤬🙄


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 9:38 am

          Milhouse – he was telling people NOT to obey the president, but to obey HIM. He was telling people HE was in charge of the military, and not the president. He then called his Chinese counterpart to tell him this. That’s the reporting, and if true, very, very, very bad. It was in fact, a mutiny.

          CommoChief is EXACTLY right about the CJCS’s roles and authorities. He is the principle military advisor to the president, and that is it. He commands nothing.


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 10:20 am

          To be clear, as a 4-star, Milley has a lot of influence in the Army. He greatly affects senior promotion and assignment, so the three, two, one-stars and COL’s definitely listen to him, and fear him from a career perspective. And he can give certain lawful orders to less senior personnel that are not in is direct line of command (of which he has none). But there are gross and well defined limitations.

          But he has no command authority, and cannot insert himself into lawful chains of command. Even a Seaman Recruit in the Navy can tell him to bugger off, and every Admiral would likely enjoy the spectacle if this would occur. Yes, the would counsel the SR to be respectful, and then give him a medal for courage, I suspect. Or that’s the way it would have worked in my time.

          I’ve had lots of people who had no authority over me try and bully me into obedience. As an O-1 I had a very heated exchange with an O-5 (same service) who was making demands on me without authority to do things counter to the lawful orders I had been given by my commander, I threatened to have him arrested if he persisted as he was seriously interfering with my mission then at a critical juncture of execution. I was prior enlisted and well seasoned by that point. He exploded in incoherent anger but walked off.

          The next day, he was stupid enough to call my commander, who’s orders to me he was attempting to interfere with, and say he wanted to press charges against me for disobeying and disrespect, My boss told him I was completely within my rights, that I was executing the lawful orders given me, and told him to “F off, and furthermore would press charges against the O-5 if this O-5 persisted.

          Just another day in the military.

          Just because you outrank someone gives no right to tell that someone what to do. They can tell them their uniform is sloppy and tuck in your shirt, or give them instruction on how to render a more snappy salute, but if not in my chain of command, that is, he does not write my evaluation, I could otherwise care less what he may want, and simply refer their “request” to may lawful superior for their consideration.

          You do not simply take orders from some guy, not matter their rank, even if they are personally known to you, simply because they are of superior rank.


           
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          divemedic in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 3:34 pm

          The CJC doesn’t fit in that procedure. The launch or use of nuclear weapons uses what is called the “two man rule.” The President has in his possession a card called the biscuit, which enables him to identify himself to officials at the Pentagon with unique codes letting them know he is authorizing a nuclear strike. On it are several series of numbers. Only the President knows which of those numbers is the correct one.
          Using the “biscuit,” the president would identify himself to a military official in the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon, who would then receive and transmit strike orders once it was clear that the nuclear strike orders were coming from the commander in chief.

          The crucial thing to remember here, is that the codes and fail-safes for launching nuclear weapons are all based around confirming the identity of the President, not whether the President is acting sanely and rationally when giving the orders to launch.

          The only procedure is that ordering a strike requires two people. One is the President, who would give the order. The second is a person to confirm that it is indeed the President who gave it. That second man is the Secretary of Defense. His or her role in this situation is solely to verify that the order came from the President and not someone else. The Defense Secretary has no veto power over the decision, he just confirms that it is a Presidential order. AT no point is the CJC in that chain of command. There is no procedure that goes through him.


           
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          Arminius in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 3:35 pm

          So, what you’re saying is that you don’t know the difference between the operational and administrative chains of command. Please, continue Milhouse, as if Milley fits into that operational procedure.

          https://www.jcs.mil/About/The-Joint-Staff/Chairman/

          “The Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986 identifies the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as the senior ranking member of the Armed Forces. As such, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the principal military adviser to the President. He may seek the advice of and consult with the other JCS members and combatant commanders. When he presents his advice, he presents the range of advice and opinions he has received, along with any individual comments of the other JCS members.

          Under the DOD Reorganization Act, the Secretaries of the Military Departments assign all forces to combatant commands except those assigned to carry out the mission of the Services, i.e., recruit, organize, supply, equip, train, service, mobilize, demobilize, administer and maintain their respective forces. The chain of command to these combatant commands runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense directly to the commander of the combatant command. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff may transmit communications to the commanders of the combatant commands from the President and Secretary of Defense but does not exercise military command over any combatant forces…

          I look forward to the word salad you vomit, oh ye who is never wrong, too try to weasel your way out in a way to claim you were right all along that Milley fits somehow into this procedure other than as a mailman if the President chooses to use him as such. Note the word “may” is used and not “shall” when it comes to transmitting orders to the commanders of combatant commands.

          The President is the CinC. If Trump wanted to communicate directly with the commanders of combatant commands that is entirely his The Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986 identifies the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as the senior ranking member of the Armed Forces. As such, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the principal military adviser to the President. He may seek the advice of and consult with the other JCS members and combatant commanders. When he presents his advice, he presents the range of advice and opinions he has received, along with any individual comments of the other JCS members.

          Under the DOD Reorganization Act, the Secretaries of the Military Departments assign all forces to combatant commands except those assigned to carry out the mission of the Services, i.e., recruit, organize, supply, equip, train, service, mobilize, demobilize, administer and maintain their respective forces. The chain of command to these combatant commands runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense directly to the commander of the combatant command. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff may transmit communications to the commanders of the combatant commands from the President and Secretary of Defense but does not exercise military command over any combatant forces…”

          The President “may” (note, not “shall”) choose to transmit orders via the chairman of the JCS, but that is not part of whatever procedure you imagine exists. If the President wishes he has the prerogative to choose a different mailman. Or communicate directly with the commanders of combatant commands. Milley was inserting himself into the operational chain of command illegally. Moreover, if the President did decide to transmit orders via the chairman of the JCS, the chairman does not have the discretion to deceive the President and simply not transmit said orders. He can refuse, and then the President can fire him, cut him entirely out of the loop, whatever.

          I look forward to the word salad you’re going to vomit all over this comment thread trying to weasel out of the fact you have no clue as to what you’re talking about and somehow claim you were right all along, oh ye who is never wrong. When it’s obvious you have no clue as to what you are talking about, ,Milhouse.

          And why was Pelosi talking to Milley and encouraging him to disobey Trump because she says he’s “crazy,” hmm? Do you imagine she’s a part of your hallucinatory “procedure?”

          Milley needs to be court martialed for insubordination (UCMJ Article 91) and mutiny and sedition (Article 94)


         
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        Subotai Bahadur in reply to CommoChief. | September 14, 2021 at 11:28 pm

        Not too far as the eagle flies from here is a place called Cheyenne Mountain. It used to be the HQ of NORAD. Back when it was, I was invited there for briefings. It was really, really secure for that time. A couple of times whacko’s bought surplus AF general officer uniforms, put 4 stars on, and tried to talk their way in claiming that they were in command. Didn’t work. The process of cuffing them must have been fun to watch. In any case, rank does not constitute chain of command.

        Subotai Bahadur

        I think we are witnessing a generalized breakdown of command authority in DC. Look no further than Dopey Joe’s command as to COVID vaccinations in both public and private sectors, a command which is unconstitutional


       
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      gonzotx in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 9:05 am

      That was a down vote but unfortunately big thumbs gave you an up vote you didn’t deserve


     
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    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to divemedic. | September 15, 2021 at 4:26 pm

    re: “This also has to be scaring the hell out of Biden and Pelosi.”

    I think you forget that Pelosi tried to usurp the Commander in Chief herself, and in exactly the same way.

    “That would amount to a military coup, the officials said” –https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-pelosi-nuclear-military.html


 
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Milhouse | September 14, 2021 at 9:57 pm

“No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,” Milley told the officers,

Isn’t that correct? Isn’t that exactly what they’re supposed to do? Go by the book? Orders have to come down the chain of command, don’t they? So in an unstable time what’s wrong with making sure everyone understands that?


     
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    CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 10:46 pm

    He ain’t in the chain of command. Lets say you are wealthy. You pay a Financial Planner (CFP) to draw up a plan each year and a retainer for his advice when you ask for it.

    This CFP then decides, on his own and without your knowledge, to call a meeting of your personal banker, CPA, Attorney and stockbroker. He tells everyone to ‘go by the book’ and to make sure the CFP is not only made aware of future actions by you but that he must approve them. I’m sure you’d agree those actions by the CPA are beyond the pale. If it were me I’d move for a competency hearing because it is that level of crazy.

    That’s really what happened here. Milley is an advisor to POTUS nothing more. The CJC has no command authority, he only has influence. He is way over his skies assuming this occurred.


       
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      Milhouse in reply to CommoChief. | September 14, 2021 at 10:55 pm

      According to the story, he told this to his subordinates. By definition he is in their chain of command. And he told them to go by the book, which is the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. In your example, if the CFP tells all those others to go by the book, and the book says his approval isn’t needed, then by definition he’s telling them not to require his approval.


         
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        Escaped from RI in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 11:08 pm

        The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is not in the chain of command. He has no command authority and is not a combatant commander.


         
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        CommoChief in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 11:20 pm

        Lots of civilians don’t understand the role of the CJC and make this error. Beyond his immediate small staff, he doesn’t have any subordinates in a command sense where he has the lawful authority to issue orders.

        Sure every 4 Star out ranks everyone else. However the 4 star in charge of TRADOC can’t issue orders to a combatant commander that is only a 3 Star. The TRADOC ain’t in the chain of command any more than the CJC.

        This isn’t an issue of hair splitting or nuance. The CJC does not and has never possessed any command authority. He simply cannot issue an order like that, it is unlawful. His job is to advise the POTUS. If the POTUS gives him a decision contrary to his advice then he salutes and either resigns or does his best to support the decision.

        What you are suggesting is straight out of crazy town. The book says he shouldn’t have called a meeting in the first place nor issued orders he had no authority to deliver. This is too serious for semantic BS word games. It ain’t quite 7 days in May but as close to it as I ever want to see.


         
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        Colonel Travis in reply to Milhouse. | September 14, 2021 at 11:36 pm

        No one has authority over the president for launching nuclear missiles. No one in the military, no one in Congress, no one, period. Only the president makes that ultimate decision. The Joint Chiefs Chairman is a military adviser, not a decider. The president is not required to follow his advice.

        If the general told others “not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved”, then he is doing more than just telling his subordinates to follow procedure. He had invented a new, unconstitutional procedure.


           
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          Milhouse in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 15, 2021 at 12:06 am

          Of course nobody has authority over the president. But he does not give his orders directly to the people who are to carry them out. There’s a procedure. How can telling people to follow that procedure be wrong?

          ““No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process.” They know what the procedure is, and he’s telling them to follow it! How can that be any more explicit?

          Of course these are Woodward’s words, so even assuming he didn’t make them up they’re filtered through his perceptions.


           
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          divemedic in reply to Colonel Travis. | September 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

          The Chain of Command for the Military goes:

          President of the United States

          Secretary of Defense

          Branch Secretary (Navy, Army, Air Force, as applicable)

          The following are all equivalent for each branch, as applicable:

          Army Chief of Staff/ Chief of Naval Operations/Air Force Chief of Staff/Commandant of the Marine Corps

          Then down from there.

          You will note that the CJC is a position whose job it is to ADVISE the President and the Secretary of Defense on military issues. This is not a position that is within the chain of command.


         
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        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 10:52 am

        “…he told this to his subordinates.”

        I presume this meant officers of inferior rank. The terms are often confused, and even interposed by people in the military, but a subordinate technically is within a lawful chain of command., and has nothing to do with rank, or even military service.

        There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding this by non-military people, and even some confusion within the military itself as it can be situational.

        But there is no nuance regarding the roles, responsibilities, and military authorities of the CJCS. He can instruct his staff which has a lot of authority for joint doctrine, force allocation and apportionment, and directing the development and approving military plans, and other functions, but they have no command role which, in the joint realm, is vested in the regional and functional combatant commanders. The military services have their own chain of command of which Milley as CJCS has not role or part. Milley can have certain administrative authorities over army officers which can be quite influential, but he has no operational command authorities


     
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    Subotai Bahadur in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 12:09 am

    No, he is not part of that procedure unless invited, nor part of that chain of command. In the ’80’s and ’90’s I had a sideline writing for various professional military and naval publications and was a member of various Defense industry organizations. It was a break from my main career as a Peace Officer.

    I was invited to a number of interesting places for briefings, and did some interesting and chilling things. I have been inside Cheyenne Mountain several times, in CinC NORAD’s war room. I have been inside an active duty missile control capsule at Warren AFB and gone through the launch procedure. While this excerpt below is not from the official manuals, it is unclassified and can be published, so here is roughly how it goes:

    If these staffs receive any indication that we may be under attack, they have three minutes from the time the first sensor data arrives until they have to provide a preliminary assessment as to whether North America is under attack. If the assessment is of medium or high confidence that there is a threat, they initiate a process that will bring the president and his top advisors into an emergency conference no matter what time of day or night.

    Imagine that the president has decided to initiate a conference with his top advisors to consider the first use of nuclear weapons. The United States does not have a no-first-use policy. Furthermore, under the current review of our nuclear policy [this was written in February 2018-SB], undertaken primarily by the Pentagon, there is an emerging thesis that we should move further away from no first use and consider use of nuclear weapons in a wider variety of contingencies. We are on the verge of modifying our assurance to non-nuclear-weapons countries that we would not use nuclear weapons against them, in contradiction to the position adopted by the Obama administration.

    The emergency meeting of the president and his top advisors will typically include statutory members of the National Security Council: the secretary of defense; the secretary of state; the national security advisor; the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who participates at the discretion and the invitation of the secretary of defense [emphasis mine-SB]; and a number of key military command centers and personnel, the most important of whom is the commander of strategic forces based in Omaha, Nebraska, who commands all our strategic nuclear weapons.

    Time and circumstances permitting, the commander will brief the president on his nuclear options and their consequences. It will not be a long briefing. He’s going to have to boil this down into very, very brief sound-bites for the president: here are your options and here are the consequences. The commander will then ask the president a couple questions, such as whether he wants to withhold attacks on a particular location, such as a populous city. That briefing, if we are under attack, will be as short as 30 seconds. Of course, if the president is considering the first use of nuclear weapons, the timeline is not nearly as short and that conversation can last for quite a long period.

    If we are under attack, the president is going to have to consider his options in about six minutes, given how this protocol tends to work. If we’re not under attack, he can deliberate longer. Then he makes a decision: What option am I going to pursue? Am I going to decide to attack North Korea, for example? (With the current preprogrammed attack plan, I estimate we would have 80 nuclear aim points in North Korea.)

    Let’s say the president chooses an option. It will be conveyed instantly to the war room at the Pentagon, which probably initiated the presidential conference in the first place. The people in the Pentagon war room are listening in on the conversation and are beginning, as they hear the president moving toward a decision to use nuclear weapons, to prepare a launch order.

    Note that the secretary of defense does not confirm the president’s decision, nor does he or she have a right to veto it, nor does anyone else have the authority to override the decision. This is what Elaine Scarry has identified as, in effect, a “thermonuclear monarchy,” which gives the US president almost carte blanche command over the nuclear forces.

    When the president conveys his decision to the war room, they ask him to authenticate his identity using a special code. It’s referred to colloquially as “the biscuit,” otherwise known more officially as the “gold code.” If that code matches, the war room at the Pentagon, or an alternate, will format a launch order that will be transmitted down the chain of command to the executing commanders of the submarines, land-based rockets, and bombers.

    That launch order is roughly half the length of a tweet. It contains all the information necessary for the crews down the chain of command to launch their forces: the time to fire, the chosen war plan, an unlock code that the crews need to physically unlock their weapons prior to the launch, and special authentication codes that the crews check with the codes in their safes to satisfy themselves that these orders came from the president (those codes are not in the possession of the president, but of the military).

    That takes two minutes: 10 seconds to authenticate, then a minute or two to format and transmit the order. And in two more minutes, from the receipt of that order down the chain of command, missiles could be leaving their silos; it takes only about one minute for a Minuteman crew in the plains states of the Midwest to carry out their launch checklist. This was my job in the 1970s and at the time, it took me one minute. We delayed a little bit, for classified reasons, but that’s how long it took then and that’s how long it takes today.

    After the crews enter the war plan it goes out to all the missiles, which are preprogrammed with what wartime targets to strike. In peacetime, they are aimed at the ocean, but changing their targets to Moscow or any other targets is as easy as changing the channel on your TV set.

    The Chairman of the JCS is only in the conference if invited by the SecDef. None of the other JCS are involved. Orders go pretty much simultaneously to whoever is on duty that shift at the Pentagon and at Strategic Forces, and from there on down the chain of command right smartly.

    I will close with something to think about. Consider the collection of fools, miscreants, maladroits, and unindicted co-conspirators that make up the current regime. How secure do you feel?

    Subotai Bahadur


     
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    felixrigidus in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 4:09 am

    As you have been told multiple times, he is not part of the procedure. What he therefore said was follow an illegal procedure that gives me veto power over the lawful commands of the POTUS.

    If it were a syllogism it would be the fallacy of quaternio terminorum.
    «Procedure» as used by you indeed follows the law and strenghtens authority.
    «Procedure» as (reportedly) used by the Milley does not mean the lawful procedure because he inserts himself in the chain of command, unlawfully.
    In other words lawful procedure is not the same as unlawful procedure. Using the term “procedure” for the unlawful kind doesn’t make it lawful.


     
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    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 9:40 am

    “Isn’t that correct?”

    It is NOT correct.


     
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    Arminius in reply to Milhouse. | September 15, 2021 at 4:16 pm

    No, MIlhouse. That’s not correct. In fact Milley, as I noted above needs to be charged under at least two articles of the UCMJ. Article 91 (insubordination) and Article 94 (mutiny and sedition).

    The operational chain of command runs from the President through the Secretary of Defense to the commanders of combatant commands (link to the JCS website provided above).

    “The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff may transmit communications to the commanders of the combatant commands from the President and Secretary of Defense but does not exercise military command over any combatant forces…

    Milley’s directions to these officers…

    “’No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,’ Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood….”

    …are criminal. According to scattered reports some of these officers are willing to testify against Milley under oath. The MFM is putting on not just a dog and pony show but a full on three ring circus complete with retired four star dancing bears turned DNC operatives who will say anything to defend their fellow anti-American, Constitution-hating swamp creatures. But at least some of the officers who were in the room when Milley crossed all legal and constitutional lines and inserted himself into their chain of command to illegally obstruct a President and prevent him from exercising his constitutional authority as CinC apparently understand the gravity of Milley’s felonies.

    As an aside, always preview your comments before submitting them. I thought the evil gremlins that inhabit my laptop cut portions of an earlier comment. Instead the evil gremlins copied and repeated portions of my earlier comment.


       
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      Arminius in reply to Arminius. | September 15, 2021 at 9:53 pm

      My bad. Article 91 doesn’t apply; that’s insubordination toward warrant officers, NCOs, Petty Officers, etc. Articles 89 and 90 which concerns commissioned officers may be more applicable, but what Milley did is far more monstrous than the military delinquencies those articles are intended to address. Still, they’re the closest thing I can see to a lesser included charge. As if one is needed. This is mutiny and sedition.

      And as I mentioned on another comment thread Pelosi needs to be charged under 18 U.S. Code § 2387 – Activities affecting armed forces generally:

      “(a)Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States:

      (1) advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States; or…

      Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.”

      Pelosi clearly advised and urged Milley to act as a “check” (her word) on Trump’s Presidential authority as CinC, which Milley has no constitutional power to perform. What actions Pelosi urged Milley to take to act as an unconstitutional, illegal “check” on the CinC’s lawful authority is the very definition of counseling “insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty.”


 
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Char Char Binks | September 14, 2021 at 11:11 pm

Milley AND Vindman need to be court martialed.

Seems to me he’s going to get scapegoated for the Afghanistan debacle. The Trump angle is merely salacious and perhaps to soften his dismissal as some sort of vigilante hero and downplay the treason charge.


     
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    Arminius in reply to c0cac0la. | September 15, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    The Trump angle is intended to smear the former President as unfit for office should he run in 2024. As if Woodward, Pelosi, and Milley are trusted authorities we should listen to.


 
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healthguyfsu | September 15, 2021 at 12:11 am

Find me his mean tweets or I will not care! – Every Dem

I’m sure he’ll appreciate his subordinates doing the same to him. I’m not exactly sure how anyone in their right mind would serve under this general after the events of the past year.

California of course keeps hair boy

They had a chance and they blew it

Elder should have gotten in earlier, but the cheating probably would have made it impossible anyway


     
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    Dathurtz in reply to gonzotx. | September 15, 2021 at 7:23 am

    I plan to vote every chance I get. Still, I am pretty sure we can’t vote our way back to a constitutional republic. I wonder what it will take to get people to realize that.


 
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felixrigidus | September 15, 2021 at 2:53 am

Why the reportedly admitted traitor is not already in custody and awaits trial while evidence of his treason is being secured is a mystery – only if you believe that the current administration intends to uphold the constitution and the law of the land.


     
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    felixrigidus in reply to felixrigidus. | September 15, 2021 at 7:49 am

    Of course, it is much more likely that the story is a pure fabrication intended to politically harm President Trump and the Republicans as well as distract from the catastrophe that unfolds under someone exhibiting many of the signs of dementia.
    Having re-read my comment above that is an exercise in sarcasm I think it doesn’t convey that clearly enough, so this clarification seems to be in order.
    I do not believe Milley admitted to treason, however, the report should trigger an investigation into the alleged conduct.


       
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      donewiththis in reply to felixrigidus. | September 16, 2021 at 9:01 pm

      This asshole should at a minimum be locked up without bail in a federal gulag or Gitmo as his trial is pending.

      What he did is most certainly worse than showing up unarmed at a Trump rally and taking a nice stroll through the Capitol. He deserves no more due process than any other American unfortunate enough to find his or her self in the Washington sewer, most of whom have served in terrible places with honor.

      Milley has no honor. Just another corrupt POS bureaucrat.

      Also just wanted to say thanks to you guys above. I learned a lot from this thread.

I have blog friends who firmly believed that a cadre of loyal Trump military leaders were really running the country, behind the Biteme administration. I hope these revelations disabuse them of that fantasy. There was a cadre of Military.. but they were infected with TDS. This is my shocked face.


 
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E Howard Hunt | September 15, 2021 at 8:42 am

Just look at the man! Central casting for escapee from criminally insane asylum.

This stuff is not new or unique. Kerry and others made careers out of fraternizing with our enemies. Milley can’t be separated from the crowd he’s been with. Hiilary skated; they all skate… Our system has been reengineered to keep citizen-voters from influencing policy.

This explains why so many generals, admirals, congresspeople (I’m woke),
and bureaucrats are enrolled in mandarin language courses. /s

BREAKING: At least one of Milley’s calls to China was intercepted by a partner nation targeting PRC leadership and resulted in a FVEY rocket of “WTF” to Meade and Bolling, per IC official
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1437834782143037445
Five Eyes (FVEY)


     
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    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Neo. | September 15, 2021 at 10:25 am

    Hmmm… Such an intercept would be highly sensitive. I doubt it would get into FVEY channels but rather stay compartmentalized in national channels.

Milley’s deployment history is interesting:
First, to Haiti, after the bad earthquake,
next to Panama, both probably with junior rank.
After that, Iraq, where as a likely LTC he was directing combat and social remedies from inside the Green Line.
Finally in Afghanistan, likely as a 1 star, thus safe.
So he was never personally engaged in combat, probably only fired a gun at shooting ranges.

The rot in the officer corps occurred under Obama, which is why we now have SecDef Austin, a black ex-General, who sees the military’s greatest problem as ‘systemic racism’, despite his black self achieving high rank.

I am inclined to believe Woodward’s allegations. Which require action now, despite their potential political utility by Democrats, all of whom I believe are stupid, or ignorant, and/or evil.


     
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    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to rednecktom. | September 15, 2021 at 1:07 pm

    It’s actually hard for me to determine from his official BIO what fights he may been in. He has no Purple Hearts, and his Bronze Stars appear to be meritorious and not valorous. He has a Special Forces tab and a CIB with star. The CIB is supposed to be awarded to infantry or SOF who have personally engaged in combat under fire.

    He also has a Ranger Tab but does not appear to have been with the 75th, There is no mention of what SOF Group assignments he may have had. I can only assume these were early career, but as he rose in rank transitioned to more traditional units and assignments. But he has, again, the CIB with star, so supposedly he has seen actual combat and been under fire.

    SOF qualification, Ranger Tab, and 2 CIB. He’s no slouch in the been there department.


       
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      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | September 15, 2021 at 1:17 pm

      PS: I know people who say they knew him and claim he was a courageous officer under fire., but have no other details.. These conversations were had after he stabbed Trump in the back after the church fire in DC. His decorations do not bestow any exemplary acts of bravery, however. But again, they do indicate he has served under fire. And the SOF qualification course and diver’s badges are significant achievements even if he had never actually seen combat, which it appears he has. The US Army Dive School in Key West is a particularly tough course that requires a particularly high level of both physical and mental fortitude.

      But all that can be wiped away much more easily that it took to attain it. He is not in the right position. He has become controversial and exhibited poor judgement on multiple occasions. I thank him for his service. But he has outlasted his usefulness, and now, he must go.


         
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        CommoChief in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | September 15, 2021 at 1:55 pm

        BSR,

        He was in Just Cause but not in Desert Shield/Storm. He was commissioned in 1980 so after Just Cause his next combat deployment was OIF or OEF as a Sr LTC or Col based on the timeline. The second star on the CIB is not iffy exactly but certainly wasn’t earned in the same amount of combat as a Jr officer or NCO. He has 4 Bronze Stars and served 3 Afghan and 1 Iraq command tour so those are not exceptional, pretty routine for a SR officer to pick up their Bronze Star as a CDR in a combat zone assignment these days.

        Not knocking the man’s rack just clarifying. The man graduated Ranger School and SF but his bio shows all conventional commands from LTC up. Nothing wrong with that and it certainly tells us he possessed the mental and physical strength to endure hardship to graduate those courses. Whatever he is today at one point he was a disciplined, driven, tough young Officer.

        Honestly he seems pretty pedestrian to me, above average outside his tabs. He did do a JT assignment advising the Sec DEF so maybe that’s where his juice came from. My two cents for what that’s worth.


           
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          GWB in reply to CommoChief. | September 15, 2021 at 2:24 pm

          so after Just Cause his next combat deployment was OIF or OEF
          Aren’t you forgetting about a whole war in between there? The First Gulf War?


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | September 15, 2021 at 2:29 pm

          He graduated from Princeton, which for some reason, carries a lot of weight in the DC corridors (Wow, he must be one of us!).

          I am going to presume, based on his official BIO, that as a young officer he was in 7th Special Forces Group. The tell would be where he lived as a junior officer, Florida, Bragg, or some other place.

          I think he was pulled out of or moved himself out of the SOF community because he was already being viewed, or viewed himself, as general officer material as a fairly junior officer (Did you know he went to Princeton!). Back in the day, the path to general officer was not via the SOF community. There are more billets in the general purpose force structure, so he would have a better chance in that route.

          But he looks groomed to me. All the checks in the right blocks. What is lacking is evidence of any great military success. So though he may have at one point been “a disciplined, driven, tough young Officer” which got him notice and placed on the right pathway, he moved up checking the right blocks. That’s my take. Nothing wrong with that. It’s what officers a taught to do to move up. But he is a couple of stars over grade, at least.


           
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          Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | September 15, 2021 at 2:50 pm

          Just thought to look at his Wikipedia page – he was 5th Special Forces Group. Looks like 1st assignment was 82nd ABD during which he Ranger qualified, then Q, then 5th SFG during where he did his combat diver, then off to GPF world, so not a lot of SOF time. Probably pissed them off when he left after all that investment in him. So Just Cause was what, the tail endo of 1989? I would presume he was out of the SOF community by then and his CIBs came from Just Cause and OIF.

          Just theorizing about his early career and where he got his combat experience.


           
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          CommoChief in reply to CommoChief. | September 15, 2021 at 5:20 pm

          GWB,

          Nope, I didn’t forget the 1st Gulf War AKA Desert Shield/Storm. His bio doesn’t include an operational or combat assignment during those periods. Based on the bio he was not present for the 1st Gulf War.


 
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LukeHandCool | September 15, 2021 at 11:35 am

Why does it always turn out that the left is guilty of what they accuse the right?

IMAX-level projection.

I’d love to see Milley where he belongs – in a cell in Leavenworth.

Things are too far gone. Secession is our only way out.

So despite because two WaPo name-brand reporters on the story
FIFY, sir.


 
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Wrathchilde | September 15, 2021 at 4:52 pm

Huh. So Mike Flynn was run through the wringer over a phone call to a foreign gvt asking them to downplay their response to any diplomatic issues until Trump fully took office.

Milley is totes fine with calling a foreign gvt, and promising that he would derail any military action from out sitting President.

One of these things is not like the other, despite superficial similarities.

Why should we be surprised by this? Biden is owned by the Chinese and they told him to keep their buddy in charge of our military.


 
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FortesFortunaJuvat | September 18, 2021 at 6:04 pm

It is an absolute disgrace that he is allowed to continue to wear the uniform.

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