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Sen. Paul, Fauci Spar Over ‘Lying’ in Latest COVID-19 Hearing

Sen. Paul, Fauci Spar Over ‘Lying’ in Latest COVID-19 Hearing

Fauci: “And Senator Paul, you do not know what you’re talking about, quite frankly. And I want to say that officially.”

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Dr. Anthony Fauci had another blowout in Congress.

This time, Paul confronted Fauci over his previous testimony when he claimed the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) did not fund “gain-of-function research in China.”

Paul cited a paper on bat coronavirus, which he said shows taxpayer “money had essentially gone to the hazardous and controversial research – an assertion Fauci strongly objected to.”

The exchange that followed:

FAUCI: “Senator Paul, I have never lied before the Congress and I do not retract that statement. This paper that you’re referring to was judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as not being gain of function. What was — ”

PAUL: “So you — ”

FAUCI: “Let me finish!”

PAUL: “So you take an animal virus and you increase the transmissibility to humans, you’re saying that’s not gain of function?”

FAUCI: “Yeah, that is correct. And Senator Paul, you do not know what you’re talking about, quite frankly. And I want to say that officially. You do not know what you are talking about. Okay, you get one person — ”

PAUL: “The NIH — ”

FAUCI: “Can I answer?”

PAUL: “This is your definition that you guys wrote. It says that scientific research that increases the transmissibility among mammals is gain of function. They took animal viruses that only occur in animals and they increase their transmissibility to humans. How you can say that is not gain of function — ”

FAUCI: “It is not.”

PAUL: “It’s a dance and you’re dancing around this, because you’re trying to obscure responsibility for 4 million people dying around the world from a pandemic.”


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2smartforlibs | July 20, 2021 at 1:09 pm

What you mean is Fauci was caught lying on Congress something that was a crime as late as 2020.

Fauci is a Dem operative and federal bureaucrat. They are permitted to lie. For The Cause.

And nothing happens to them. Even when responsible, in part, for 4 million dead.

Because their judge and their jury are also all in for The Cause. Over and above what we used to call ‘justice’. The Cause is the greater ‘justice’.

Meanwhile a misguided unarmed protester who walked into and around in a wide open Capital Building for 20 minutes, doing no harm, is branded a ‘domestic terrorist’, convicted of a felony, sent to prison for 8 months, and has his life ruined.

This was what passed for ‘justice’ in the Soviet Union. Party member were given a pass. The peasants and proles were dealt a heavy hand.

This is Comrade Biden’s Amerika.

    Dathurtz in reply to JHogan. | July 20, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    I can’t think of a solution to the problem other than to go all Liberte, Egalite,Fraternite.

    gonzotx in reply to JHogan. | July 20, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    They are honored within the “community “
    They got rid of 4 million mainly elderly, burdens on society

    AND allowed the “Steal”

      Ben Kent in reply to gonzotx. | July 21, 2021 at 1:10 pm

      And those 4 million are mostly older Americans who, as a demographic group, are more likely to vote Republican. Vox and the Atlantic and WaPo will stand up and applaud Fauci.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JHogan. | July 20, 2021 at 5:00 pm

    Very nicely stated. And I shall also add Hunter Biden walks around free.

    Lucifer Morningstar in reply to JHogan. | July 21, 2021 at 8:33 am

    Meanwhile a misguided unarmed protester who walked into and around in a wide open Capital Building for 20 minutes, doing no harm, is branded a ‘domestic terrorist’, convicted of a felony, sent to prison for 8 months, and has his life ruined.

    Uh, no. There was no trial and he wasn’t “convicted of a felony”. He unwisely pled guilty to the charges and was sentenced to 8 months in prison. Which is rather lenient since he could have received a jail sentence up to 24 months.

    And I’m not supporting what the feds did to this guy. I don’t think he or anyone else should be facing prison time for Jan 6th. But let’s keep the record straight, shall we?

Fauci one of the worst mistakes of the Trump Administration

Thank you Pence


    Danny in reply to gonzotx. | July 20, 2021 at 2:48 pm

    Will you stop blaming Mike Pence for things Trump did?

    Just ask the actual founding fathers what the VP slot is worth. The president made a lot of mistakes, all of which are on him not Pence.

    Your real problem with Pence isn’t imaginary betrayal he never committed on Earth but only in your imagination but with the fact that he didn’t illegally refuse to count electoral votes (see the professors post on that here at LI).

      gonzotx in reply to Danny. | July 20, 2021 at 3:43 pm


      Pence is a traitor and he did his job like a stealth bomber

      Nice work on Flynn to start

      Andy in reply to Danny. | July 20, 2021 at 4:14 pm

      I never understood why Fauci wasn’t fired.

      Trump should have fired at least 3 people in that position and kept firing them until finding someone capable. It was one of the things he was really good at. Except in this case.

        You have to remember what was going on: a coup. And you have to remember who was involved: everyone in the democrat party, inside the government, inside the White House and inside the Republican Party.

        Given another gig in the White House, Trump would crush these traitors.

      Barry in reply to Danny. | July 20, 2021 at 9:56 pm

      “Will you stop blaming Mike Pence…”

      How about we blame him for the things Pence did. Those are egregious and plentiful.

      Fauci is a corrupt pig, owned by the chinese. Just like Pence.

      Pence did a decent job of being VP, but in the end, he scurried and ran for cover – just like Niki Haley and her ilk.

      I would never trust him again.

    henrybowman in reply to gonzotx. | July 20, 2021 at 11:24 pm

    I don’t even understand the comment. Fauci is the highest paid and one of the longest serving bureaucrats in the federal government. He’s been around so long, he screwed up AIDS! How does any of this have anything to do with anything done by anybody in the Trump administration?

      Oh, come on. The democrat propaganda machine relies on Adoph Hitler as it’s philosophical hero:

      “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

      The Big Lie Theory is a democrat favorite. Their voters are either narcissistic children or stupid. Or both.

Congress is not the place I’d look for truth, quite the opposite.

Fauci is one of those people who need to be ‘right’. They can’t ever admit that they may have been in error. His initial mask guidance offers insight to this; he admitted that his initial guidance was in conflict with later guidance but because in his eyes it served a greater purpose, the need to equip heal care workers and first responders, that wasn’t a lie.

It was for our own good you see. Because he considers his motives virtuous then he considers his actions are virtuous as well. He is, IMO, a self delusional, egomaniacal man in abject terror of his position, influence and power being eroded.

He extended his 15 minutes of fame and influence far beyond it’s shelf life. He can’t bear to let go. That’s why he is unwilling to accept responsibility for his obvious falsehoods. IMO.

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | July 20, 2021 at 5:05 pm

    He is a typical entitled bureaucrat. He simply ignored or skirted guidance or directive he did not like. But hey, the risks of a global pandemic were worth it, right?

      Fauci is an entitled bureaucrat. But this wasn’t a pandemic. The Spanish Flu in 1918, that was a pandemic. 50 million died out of 500 million infected. That is 1/3 of the world’s population at that time infected, and 1 in 10 died. The COVID “pandemic” supposedly infected 191 million. 4.1 million died from it, according to WHO and the CDC, figures that are highly debatable when co-morbidity is included. But just using these figures, the Spanish Flu had a 10% mortality rate. COVID had a 2% mortality rate, using these figures. Once again, in the US at least, the death rate solely from COVID is far less than the CDC claims.of over 600K dead from the virus. Extrapolated data world wide, especially in areas with less quality health care, only makes the death rate more suspect. The Spanish Flu was a true pandemic, whereas COVID is largely a creation of media hysteria. The liberals are now coming up with more reasons to keep people masked. Believe what you will.

        Sanddog in reply to Kevin. | July 20, 2021 at 6:22 pm

        This does fit the definition of a pandemic. It’s not dictated by the death rate but by the speed of transmission and the percentage infected.

          CommoChief in reply to Sanddog. | July 20, 2021 at 6:44 pm


          Serious question here. Is our definition of pandemic and epidemic suitable in these circumstances? At least insofar as the application of the normal responses?

          We have multiple vaccines that are, despite their negatives, seemingly working nearly flawlessly to stop serious effects, hospitalization and death.

          Assuming that is true then the case count is largely irrelevant. The vaccinated are safe. Those with naturally acquired immunity have some degree of protection as well.

          So we are right back where we started; those who have certain medical issues like the end of life elderly, diabetics or a compromised immune system are the folks at risk of serious issues, hospitalization and death.

          That appears to be vaccination or no vaccination. The folks who are not vaccinated have made a conscious decision not to participate.

          So if we are not going to modify the application of when a pandemic/epidemic is worth imposing restrictions here in spite of all these factors then when would our policy makers ever conduct an inclusive cost benefit analysis?

          At some point they will either let people manage risk or the people will become more insistent on that point.

          Barry in reply to Sanddog. | July 20, 2021 at 9:59 pm

          “We have multiple vaccines that are, despite their negatives, seemingly working nearly flawlessly to stop serious effects, hospitalization and death.”

          Horseshit. “serious effects, hospitalization and death” were rare before the vaccine among those under 80. The experiments being labeled “vaccines” have changed nothing with respect to the scamChinaVirus.

          mark311 in reply to Sanddog. | July 21, 2021 at 12:53 am


          Horseshit. “serious effects, hospitalization and death” were rare before the vaccine among those under 80

          The stats dont support your position. The number of serious side effects from the various vaccines are very low, and as far as im aware 0 deaths in the US being causally linked. Given that 99% of covid infections are now amongst the unvaccinated id say the vaccines work pretty well.

          CommoChief in reply to Sanddog. | July 21, 2021 at 10:03 am


          I don’t think we disagree. My response posted in main thread.

      He’s worse. He’s a profiteer first.

    randian in reply to CommoChief. | July 21, 2021 at 2:37 am

    I disagree. His initial statement, that masks weren’t necessary or useful, is the truthful one, but he needs to obliterate that truth to give a future lie the veneer of truth. He does this by calling his truthful statement a lie intended to help health care workers. If the Ministry of Truth were real they’d give him a medal.

Fauci is a prima facie example of “If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.” Fauci is simply all about Fauci. His name and the word TRUTH will never collide in a sentence!!

bobinreverse | July 20, 2021 at 2:09 pm

Tony Fauci modern day Bob McNamara. 600k people died of COVID in us due to tiny er tony and 60 k in nam due to uncle bob. Eventually msm turned on macnamra cause Mac tied to lbj. MSM will never turn on Fauci even if 10 mil us citizens die cause tiny tony biggest djt hater anywhere. But long short is tony is same arrogant govt offish as Mac – lie and wrong about everything.

he would look good in the stocks

healthguyfsu | July 20, 2021 at 2:12 pm

I’m sure several Dem Senators were more than happy to carry his torch before and after this moment of adversity for the little gnome.

Fauci has a real and complete contempt for the right and is an extreme authoritarian.

NY had by far the worst results at the time he called NY response by Andrew Cuomo the ideal, and was praising the Chinese response of starving people with it to death.

He has never treated patients and as a scientist he never cites any data or studies and ignores data and studies that contradict him (making him not a scientist at all).

Rand Paul is a lot more respectful to Mr. Fauci than Mr. Fauxi is to Rand Paul or us.

    Fauci’s problem is that he can’t get laid. Now he can.

    He betrayed his country and caused millions of deaths, but at least he can get laid now.

      After his encounter with Rand Paul he’s laying low.

        mark311 in reply to UserP. | July 21, 2021 at 2:16 am

        Is he? He basically said to Rand Paul that he was FOS, stood by his previous statements despite the threats and pointed out that the basis of Pauls claims about gain of function with reference to the EcoAlliance report is wrong. That’s been backed up by independent scientists btw.

        “As Alina Chan, a molecular biologist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, explained, the EcoHealth Alliance/Wuhan Institute of Virology research did not fall under the moratorium because it was using natural viruses and it could be reasonably argued that these were not likely to be highly transmissible and highly virulent in humans.

        Stanley Perlman, a microbiologist at the University of Iowa, told that EcoHealth’s research was about “trying to see if these viruses can infect human cells and what about the spike protein on the virus determines that.” According to, Perlman did not think there was anything in the EcoHealth grant description that would be gain-of-function research.

        As shown above, the definition of gain-of-function research is difficult to pin down. But in relation to the NIH’s definition of gain-of-function research, the research described in EcoHealth’s grant application didn’t fall under the NIH’s definition from 2014.”

      henrybowman in reply to | July 21, 2021 at 4:03 am

      Best explanation for masks that I’ve read yet.

healthguyfsu | July 20, 2021 at 3:32 pm

Your headline also makes it sound like Fauci is a respected and elected Senator by the way it is worded. I would not have afforded him such unearned title.

Fauci loses his cookies when Sen Rand Paul questions him about funding “Gain of Function” research at the Wuhan Lab. Let’s back up to a more fundamental question: Why was the U.S. Government funding any research at a Chinese virus lab? Was it because the U.S. Government determined that such research was too dangerous and should not be conducted in and by the U.S.? It couldn’t be done by the U.S. Government so they outsourced it to the Chinese Communists.

This is a lot like the U.S. Government can’t directly censor peoples’ speech, but they will outsource it to so-called private companies. Or, the Government can’t directly invade peoples’ privacy and gather private information about U.S. citizens, but they’ll outsource it to corporate entities., right?

How about legislation barring the Government from contracting out to corporate entities functions they can’t legally do themselves?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Idonttweet. | July 20, 2021 at 5:23 pm

    There are actually a number of valid reasons to fund research in a Chinese BSL-4 lab. One is be able to gain access to information about the lab – it’s people, what research they are doing, being able to walk around it, etc. Another is to allow you to talk to people more freely. It is not strange if you are communicating with a benefactor. These are intelligence purposes, and not necessarily clandestine in nature. Having said that, what do NOT want to do is fund evil or irresponsible activities at these places. As for your last comment, the government cannot fund illegal activities. That is already prohibited by law. Yet, many things are prohibited by law while Hunter Biden walks free and Trump supporters are prosecuted for failing to fill out obscure government forms correctly, telling the truth to FBI agents about perfectly legal conversations, or people strolling into public buildings passing through open doors and welcomed by friendly police officers. Many things are, indeed, prohibited by law.

      To be fair BSR Hunter Biden is being investigated.

      “Trump supporters are prosecuted for failing to fill out obscure government forms correctly, telling the truth to FBI agents about perfectly legal conversations, or people strolling into public buildings passing through open doors and welcomed by friendly police officers. Many things are, indeed, prohibited by law.”

      Yeah thats just bullshit

    Sanddog in reply to Idonttweet. | July 20, 2021 at 6:19 pm

    China has a very large reservoir of bats that carry coronaviruses. It’s theoretically safer to do the research there than to introduce a new virus to a country where it’s not naturally found.

      Yes, but in this case, theory broke down fairly rapidly. Of course, Chinese scientists fiddling with the viruses to see how to make them more deadly didn’t help a bit.

      UserP in reply to Sanddog. | July 21, 2021 at 12:34 am

      Theoretically the truth about coronavirus will eventually come out while Fauci thinks up lies to cover his ass faster than a bat out of hell.

    Of course, his handlers prepped him with the nonsequittor line “you don’t know what you’re talking about”.

    I was waiting for that idiot Mrs. Magoo (from the Kavannaugh hearings) to appear.

Question: what things did the lab Wuhan learn by doing their experiments on the Corona virus? I’d like to know in order to know whether or not 4 million deaths and wrecked economies around the world was worth it.

Also…..if what Wuhan was doing didn’t meet the definition of “gain of function”, then ok………they still did it with the help of Fauci and Company. So tomato, tomatoe…..had Fauci not spearheaded this, the pandemic wouldn’t have happened. There’s blood all over his hands.

    Dathurtz in reply to jaudio. | July 20, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    They learned how to make this corona virus more likely to spread.

    It is entirely possible the scientific community has sense rewritten the definition of gain of function. In any rational world what they were doing is gain of function research. Check through Fauci’s emails as it is discussed.

      CorkyAgain in reply to Dathurtz. | July 20, 2021 at 10:50 pm

      Redefining the terms is a favorite tactic of the left, because it allows them to say their opponents “don’t know what they’re talking about”.

      “Gain of function” is just the latest example.
      “Critical race theory” is another.
      Then there’s “Insurrection” and “Threats to our Democracy”.

      And the one that maybe got it all started:
      “Real communism (or socialism) has never been tried.”

    Sanddog in reply to jaudio. | July 20, 2021 at 6:17 pm

    Don’t you know that according to Fauci and that weasel Daszak, GOF research is vital to stopping pandemics.


    In reality, it hasn’t save a single life and may well be responsible for the deaths of millions.

      Vaguely like firefighters going out with gasoline and matches on a regular basis, because if they don’t start a bunch of fires, how will they learn how to fight them?

Unfortunately, I only think it’s the start of what they have planned to release on us…

Fauci does not get to suddenly re-define what “gain of function” means just because he’s been busted funding that research in China, research that may well have led to the creation of the Fauci Virus.

Fauci is one of those people who are not used to being challenged in regards to their work, behavior and ethics. Watching him respond to Rand Paul his left hand was shaking and he was playing with rubber bands.
He also runs with a group of people who will protect each other at all costs. He was playing word games trying to weasel out of what Paul was asking, Paul stayed at at a macro level and Fauci went to a very micro level to try and deflect from what Paul was asking.

caseoftheblues | July 20, 2021 at 6:58 pm

I understand Federal Bureaucrats are bottom feeders regarding skill sets but even with that I do not understand how Fauci got the job he did. He got a plain old MD….not extra training…boards…no speciality area, And he practiced for 6 months and then became a bureaucrat. He is NOT a virologist, immunologist…nothing…he is a GP who practiced for 6 months. And as pathetic as his credentials are he makes decrees like he is the the smartest, best trained most experienced doctor in the world. And he is not even close to that. And Dr Rand Paul absolutely got more training and experience even with his board certified area of expertise being eyes.

    Dathurtz in reply to caseoftheblues. | July 21, 2021 at 7:58 am

    That’s how a lot of bureaucracies work. If you are good at your job, and the job matters, then you will never be promoted. Incompetent people get promoted.

Lucifer Morningstar | July 20, 2021 at 8:13 pm

So was Fauci under oath when he answered questions and testified? And if not, why not. He should be subpoenaed, dragged in front of the committee, sworn to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, and then questioned in a public venue until the truth of the matter becomes plain for all to see. No more fucking grandstanding from Fauci. Time to find the truth of the matter. And if it takes digging then so be it.

    Rand Paul has just said he intends to send a criminal referral to the DOJ over these lies

    Not that anything would happen, but it may get some attention

      Lucifer Morningstar in reply to murkyv. | July 21, 2021 at 8:15 am

      Nope. Don’t want a fucking “criminal referral with the DOJ” that AG Garland will sit on for months or years and do nothing with. I want the committee to subpoena Fauci, put him under oath and then grill him on his involvement with the CCP lab that produced the SARS-CoV-2 virus. No more grandstanding from Fauci. No more of his crap. And I want it all public so that the citizens of this country can see just how corrupt the democrat regime is.

      And as for Paul, he just sat there and did nothing while Fauci publicly accused him of being a liar. A liar for shit’s sake and he did nothing. He’s just another Trey Gowdy. All talk and no action. So I don’t expect anything to come from this hearing. Nothing.

Fauci is part of a corrupt cabal of marxists dedicated to the enslavement of the American people.

When you understand this you understand the actions of the Faucist.

“I categorically deny all your claims.
The dead boy in my bed was a crisis actor.
And the videotape you provided was taken in a parallel universe.”

    UserP in reply to henrybowman. | July 20, 2021 at 11:55 pm

    I don’t believe the other universe is parallel any longer. The Biden on the other side ran out of meds and had to be placed in an institution.


The I apparently failed to communicate is that the Rona:
1. Poses serious risks, hospitalization and death to the elderly, those with compromised immune systems and certain conditions like diabetes, heart issues, lung issues.
2. Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one, maybe not the one they prefer
3. Vaccine does work to prevent serious problems for those without complications
4. Vaccine may not be as effective for those with complications
5. Young, healthy have practically zero risk of serious issues from Rona
6. Many people have naturally acquired immunity
7. Half the population has a full vaccine

The delta variant is exactly what we would predict, a mutation to a less deadly but more transmissible version.

Looking at all this collectively why are public health officials/govt officials freaking out? Doesn’t make sense. IMO.

Practically no one is at risk today from Rona unless they have certain health issues. The same issues as in the beginning.

Mandatory vax is not needed. Those with the vax can be infected and spread it. Masks are largely a useless symbol.

IMO, let everyone make an informed decision about how to !manage risk in their lives. Mask and vax if you wish or not if you don’t.