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Left Explodes Over 60 Minutes Story on Young People Who Regret Transitioning

Left Explodes Over 60 Minutes Story on Young People Who Regret Transitioning

“I can’t believe that I transitioned and detransitioned, including hormones and surgery, in the course of, like, less than one year. It’s completely crazy.”

A recent 60 Minutes segment talked about red states denying hormones and surgery to transgender youth. However, the news program made the grave mistake of including a part about young people who regret transitioning.

The left is furious that 60 Minutes included dissenting voices.

The Daily Wire has details:

60 Minutes Runs Explosive Segment Featuring Young Transgender Individuals Who Decided To Reverse Course

On Sunday, CBS News’ “60 Minutes” ran a segment about transgender issues facing today’s young people in America, which featured, in part, transgender individuals who decided to reverse course after taking hormones and undergoing surgery.

The segment featured how transgender activists have pushed back on legislation across the U.S. that aims to protect children from undergoing potentially life-altering medical procedures before they are old enough to understand the ramifications of their decisions. One of the transgender advocates said the fact that so many transgender individuals had decided to de-transition was proof that more resources were needed for trans individuals, not fewer.

One young woman described her experience after she went on hormones, had her breasts removed, and then detransitioned all in one year. Transcript via the Daily Wire:

Lesley Stahl: Did the therapist not question you about how deep the feeling was and what it was stemming from?

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: She didn’t go — really go into what my gender dysphoria might’ve been stemming from. We only did a few sessions.

Lesley Stahl (NARRATION): Because she was over 18 and didn’t need parental consent, she says she merely signed an informed consent form at a clinic and got hormone shots.

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: They asked me, “So, why do you wanna go on testosterone?” And I said, “Well, being a woman just isn’t working for me anymore.” And they said, “Okay.”

Lesley Stahl: So, that was that. You got your prescription for testosterone?

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: Uh-huh. Yup.

Lesley Stahl (NARRATION): Just four months after she started testosterone, she says she was approved for a mastectomy, what’s called top surgery, that she told us was traumatic.

Lesley Stahl: You know, I’m kinda surprised because, based on everything you’ve said up to now, I would’ve thought you’d have a great sense of relief.

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: I started to have a really disturbing sense that like a part of my body was missing, almost a ghost limb feeling about being like, there’s something that should be there. And the feeling really surprised me but it was really hard to deny.

Lesley Stahl (NARRATION):And so she detransitioned by going off testosterone and then went back to the clinic and, she says, complained to the doctor that the process didn’t follow the WPATH guidelines.

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: I can’t believe that I transitioned and detransitioned, including hormones and surgery, in the course of, like, less than one year. It’s completely crazy.

The stories told by other young people in this clip are stunning. For example, one young man who decided he was trans was put on hormones and had his testicles removed and breast augmentation after just three months:

The Wrap reports on a reaction from GLAAD:

GLAAD Slams ‘Shameful’ ’60 Minutes’ Story on Transgender Youth

GLAAD, an advocacy organization for the LGBTQ community, slammed “60 Minutes” and CBS News’ Lesley Stahl, saying a Sunday story on health care for transgender individuals — which focused on detransitioning — was “shameful.”

“Tonight @60Minutes @LesleyRStahl aired a shameful segment fearmongering about trans youth. Parents of trans youth could walk away with the false belief that young people are being rushed into medical transition. That is simply untrue,” the organization tweeted Sunday night. “As the piece noted, every major medical association supports affirming, age-appropriate care for trans youth and the guidelines for that care are safe and well-established. And yet, the majority of the story was devoted to ‘raising concerns’ about youth accessing that care.”

Jezebel called the report an “attack” on trans kids:

60 Minutes’ Segment About Republican Attacks On Trans Kids Was Itself an Attack On Trans Kids

This is not an issue that needs both-sidesing. But on Sunday, CBS’s 60 Minutes did something even worse—the primetime show decided to air a segment that, while ostensibly addressing the Republican-led assault on trans young people’s health care, ended up focusing heavily on the favorite topic of conservatives who would like nothing more than for trans people to not exist, and who wish to paint transition as a painful, regret-suffused process—people who have detransitioned.

The young people featured in this report have brains that are not even finished developing but have made irreversible changes to their bodies.

Having your breasts or testicles removed is not like getting a tattoo that you can remove later in life.

On Monday, the day after this report from 60 Minutes, the celebrity transgender figure, Elliot Page (formerly Ellen Page) released a shirtless photo. Coincidence?

Featured image via CBS News video.

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Comments

Just waved through to hormones and surgery. GLAAD is outraged that anyone would even mention that the guidelines for “transitioning” are ignored and the process given a rubber stamp instead.

It’s almost as if the medical professionals of the transgender manufacturing industry cared more about the money than they did about the well-being of the patients.

    A Punk Named Yunk in reply to irv. | May 25, 2021 at 11:58 am

    Irv said:
    > It’s almost as if the medical professionals of the transgender manufacturing
    > industry cared more about the money than they did about the well-being
    > of the patients.

    As Paul Joseph Watson would say: Imagine my shock!

      Captain Renault: I’m shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.

      [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

      Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

    RobertViking in reply to irv. | May 25, 2021 at 10:03 pm

    When somebody says: “This is not an issue that needs both-sidesing.”, you should absolutely know that this is an issue that definitely needs a broader and more detailed debate and discussion.

    On one side, the advocates for trans communities, are doing everything they can to be heard and to get exposure, but at the same time they don’t want to see the negative effects of what the movement can lead to.

    That’s not healthy, it’s all the signs you will see from a radical ideology or cult.

    Chicklet in reply to irv. | May 25, 2021 at 11:01 pm

    Try and get through medical school today in the USA and express your disgust at this stuff! Organized medicine is so far out there, a student or young doctor who says “wait, this is wrong”, or “hey, gender dysphoria is a mental illness and ought not be treated with surgery” will be tortured, perhaps denied residency and face a miserable future.
    The left wants every doctor and ‘doctor-t0-be’ to get on board. Nobody’s watching as the next generation of medical professionals are being spoon fed this crap, being told it’s “real”, it’s unstoppable and you might as well be against diabetes or cancer too. Be really careful who you let treat you.

      I must tell you that the Left runs the AMA, counting less than 15% of US docs as members but seen to speak for all, and that medical schools have not been immune to takeover by Leftists. Medical schools have become anti-racist racists. Merit is secondary to race. If you are black, c’mon in, you are admitted! More than 50 % of graduates are female, and most females put their heads down and do as they’re told.
      My daughter’s medical school did away with the Hippocratic oath some years ago, because part of the oath is to swear not to do abortions.

I love watching them twist in the wind with the self-justification of their brand of science

I like the “left explodes” part. Now maybe these kids can transition to adulthood.

Meh. 60 Minutes was in their usual Republicans-just-wanna-kill-fillintheblank mode. What 60 Minutes forgot that in Soviet Amerika no dissent whatsoever is allowed.

I wouldn’t be surprised if 60 Minutes lost corporate sponsors over this. Someone is going to get fired for making the Glorious Communist Revolution (TM) look bad.

Ellen Page looks like a scrawny freshman boy that was picked last in dodgeball.

“Young people regret transitioning.” This is the result of looking for external solutions to internal problems.

And yet if you’re a therapist and a patient comes to you depressed and wanting to chop parts of their body off, the Left wants to make it illegal for you to advise them not to.

My worse-half (I was transitioned) got mailings from the NASW and I’d look at them. They are an extreme left-wing organization – probably one of many in the social “sciences.” Hysterical Lefties, TDS, pro what-we-used-to-call-taboo-or-just-plain-nuts, all wrapped up in one. A good chunk of our society has gone crazy and – I’ve said this here over the past few years – I think it has to do in part to the prevalence of prescription anti-anxiety and anti-depressant drugs that are being eaten like candy. The adults in our country are numbing their brains and this is the result.

    bhwms in reply to WestRock. | May 25, 2021 at 11:40 am

    In the 1990’s, I worked with a lady who was also an EMT as a second job. She was telling me that the number of kids that they picked up because of things like “psychotic breaks” (her words) had skyrocketed when the medical establishment started handing out Paxil and Zoloft “like candy” to kids.

    We had a kid at the time who refused to go to school in the morning because he said his stomach hurt – he was doubled over in pain most mornings. Take to the doctor, run tests, can’t find anything, must be psychological, give Zoloft then Paxil. Grades suffering, etc. The school considered this a disciplinary problem and insisted on the medications.

    Went to the school multiple times about multiple grade issues. Finally had a meeting with the entire team – english, math, social studies, science, Assistant Principal. The math teacher was brand new out of college – and he was looking at the other teachers’ grade books, and noticed the same pattern: In every module, ace the pretest, do 2 or 3 assignments and get an A. Zeros for the other 15 assignments, and ace the final. In EVERY subject. This teacher said, “I know what the problem is – this kid is bored.” When we sat down with the kid later and presented this finding, they admitted that that’s what they had been doing, and that the stomach aches were on days when he was supposed to turn things in that he hadn’t done and didn’t want to do because they were “stupid and repetitive.” (In other words, a common stress reaction.) We went back to the school and tried to get him into an accelerated curriculum, but the school wouldn’t permit that unless the kid could “show” that he belonged there, and the kid wouldn’t do that because it was boring and repetitive.

    We pulled the kid out and home schooled after that. Everyone was much happier, and no more ineffective drugs. That opened my eyes to the nonsense of the government schools and the medical establishment.

    Here’s the best/worst part – the new teacher was let go after the second year because he wouldn’t tow the line. He frequently disagreed with the administration, usually over things like my kid. So we elected him to the school board.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to bhwms. | May 25, 2021 at 12:31 pm

      I do not know why you went through all this trouble when all you had to do was follow The Science and just do what you were told.

      The Friendly Grizzly in reply to bhwms. | May 25, 2021 at 1:38 pm

      I’ve said for more years than I can remember: these kids don’t need drugs. They need mental challenges and stimulation..in short, they are bored out of their minds.

drednicolson | May 25, 2021 at 10:52 am

Like gangs, they save their worst for defectors.

SeiteiSouther | May 25, 2021 at 11:09 am

This whole thing is despicable. On Twitter, it’s mostly taboo to talk about people who detransition, because the sub rosa is that it’s “Only a small minority and it takes away from trans voices”. I’ve seen people literally say that. The mentality of some people continue to boggle my mind.

Any time I see a story about a single digit child’s parents say their child is trans, I immediately think, “Child abuse”. These self absorbed parents are more about the clout that they have a “special” child that it outweighs the well being of the child. These children have mental issues, predominately major depression, and that needs to be addressed first before even TALKING about hormones and surgery. Because once you do that, and realize the ramifications too late, there’s no coming back from that. That’s why people with gender dysphoria have a high prevalence of suicide. Dysphoria is a symptom, depression is the main problem.

    DaveGinOly in reply to SeiteiSouther. | May 25, 2021 at 12:06 pm

    Concerning your “child abuse” allegation, take a look at this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvRpsB3Ko3U

    Sanddog in reply to SeiteiSouther. | May 25, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    Remember in the 90’s and early 2000’s when mothers declared they had “Indigo Children”? Now they’ve pivoted to trans. The adults are the ones with mental illness and they’re pushing it on their kids.

      Milhouse in reply to Sanddog. | May 25, 2021 at 3:45 pm

      No, I never heard about “indigo children” until just now. I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Weird, but no weirder than a lot of newage (rhymes with “sewage”).

      nordic_prince in reply to Sanddog. | May 25, 2021 at 3:59 pm

      AKA “starseed” or “light bringers.” 😛

    healthguyfsu in reply to SeiteiSouther. | May 25, 2021 at 3:20 pm

    A small minority of a small minority is insignificant? Gotta love the left and their doublethink with marginalized voices.

    Milhouse in reply to SeiteiSouther. | May 25, 2021 at 3:41 pm

    This whole thing is despicable. On Twitter, it’s mostly taboo to talk about people who detransition, because the sub rosa is that it’s “Only a small minority and it takes away from trans voices”. I’ve seen people literally say that. The mentality of some people continue to boggle my mind.

    This reminds me of the taboo that existed in the G&L or LGB community back in the ’80s and ’90s (T and the other letters had not yet been added, and even the B was still controversial, with people presciently asking where it would end), against talking about domestic violence in lesbian couples.

    According to the Pravda that domestic violence is about men beating their partners, it stands to reason that it should be a bigger problem in male couples (since there are two potential partner-beaters) but should not exist in female couples. Whatever else one can say about lesbians, went the Pravda, at least they don’t have to worry about being beaten. Who knows, maybe that’s even part of the lifestyle’s attraction.

    Except that the fact is women are just as likely as men to be partner-beaters. In mixed-sex couples husband-beating is just as common as wife-beating. At least fifty years’ worth of studies have all shown this, and by now it’s well known to anyone who looks into it even a little bit. And sure enough, lesbian couples have the same problem, at the same rate, as everyone else does. And lesbians all knew it, as did those they confided in; it was an open secret in the G&L world, but nobody would talk about it.

    That’s what this sounds like.

      daniel_ream in reply to Milhouse. | May 25, 2021 at 7:33 pm

      lesbian couples have the same problem, at the same rate, as everyone else does.

      It’s actually significantly higher. The estimates are between 40% and 50%.

      Ex-Oligarch in reply to Milhouse. | May 31, 2021 at 11:34 am

      A couple years ago, right in Legal Insurrection’s back yard, an Ithaca would-be progressive politico named Amanda Kirchgessner had her candidacy for the New York State Senate implode when her domestic violence against her ex-wife was revealed.

      The confusion and consternation of local leftists was amusing to behold, even if (as you’d expect) most of them hypocritically fell right back into line and supported her candidacy.

    ” I immediately think, “Child abuse””

    More accurately: FEMINIST child abuse. You don’t hear of any single men doing this to their children.

The Friendly Grizzly | May 25, 2021 at 11:11 am

GLAAD and other outfits like them claim to represent the LGBTQTEIEIO. They do no such thing, at least not for most. I’m a “G”, and yet not one single solitary one of these outfits claiming to represent me really DOES.

When such groups advocated for me not to get shot, castrated, fired, burned out of my home, or forced into some Christian religion-based “therapy” consisting of beatings, torture, mind-fscqing, and other such loving techniques, they were fine. But, not leaving well enough alone, they went so political as to be useless.

    RandomCrank in reply to The Friendly Grizzly. | May 25, 2021 at 2:13 pm

    Same here! I posted the link below in a different thread. It’s long and winding, and will give anyone unfamiliar with the details a sense of vertigo. But it is definitive. It was originally published on Medium, which turns out to be far-left, and they removed it. But it’s archived, so here goes. It’s a long read, but extremely worthwhile for anyone who wants to really understand what’s going on with the “transgenders.”

    https://archive.is/qb6lR

      daniel_ream in reply to RandomCrank. | May 25, 2021 at 7:46 pm

      anyone who wants to really understand what’s going on with the “transgenders.”

      80% of gay men have been sexually molested as children or adolescents. For MtF sexual dysmorphics, it’s 95%; for FtM it’s effectively 100%.

      Correlation is not causation, but by far the most likely explanation for sexual dysmorphia is that it’s a self-destructive coping mechanism for complex PTSD.

Credit is due CBS for presenting both sides. It is not an easily solved issue.

IMO, no one under 18 years old should be allowed either hormone therapy or surgery for transition. They simply lack the ability to make decisions that will impact them for the remainder of their life.

If an adult, who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, undergone a year of counseling/therapy, had the diagnosis confirmed via another psychiatrist then ok.

Depressed people engage in self harm. They are diagnosed and treated for depression/suicidal ideation/potential self harm. Why would society make an exception for those who have not been adequately treated and diagnosed?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | May 25, 2021 at 12:41 pm

    “If an adult, who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, undergone a year of counseling/therapy, had the diagnosis confirmed via another psychiatrist then ok”

    Anorexics do not become happier as they become skinnier. They look in the mirror and always see flaws. Like you some one else hear said. treating the outside does not treat the inside, and it’s the inside where the problem resides.

    Treatment should concentrate on making people with gender dysphoria comfortable with what God gave them, and the underlying problems they have that lead to their unhappiness. I hope for their eventual happiness, but I have doubts hormone therapies and radical body altering surgeries will end up making them happy people. But because of the extreme fascist elements in the USA now, you cannot have a rationale and reasoned discussion on how to best provide care for people any more, even to note that different people may need different clinical approaches. Maybe some people are made happy with hormone therapies and surgeries. But I would think that route is certainly not suited for a very large number of people with gender dysphoria. Treat each individual as an individual. There will be better outcomes.

      CommoChief in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | May 25, 2021 at 3:50 pm

      BSR,

      I suppose my point has an implied factor that I didn’t communicate. There are not a large number of people who qualify for a traditional diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

      Instead the medical community/industry seems to be allowing these individuals who are depressed to in effect ‘self diagnose’ and move rapidly to hormone therapy and radical surgery.

      We agree about the skepticism regarding the ‘treatment’ as far as hormones and surgery. I simply don’t believe that the numbers here, especially in teenagers, would survive an ethical medical review of the basis for the diagnosis.

      The 60 Minutes piece seems to convey that.

        mark311 in reply to CommoChief. | May 25, 2021 at 4:09 pm

        @commo chief

        I totally agree with your previous statements to add to it there have been examples where other diagnosis cause someone to want to transition for the wrong reasons. For example I’ve heard of cases where some kids with certain forms of attention deficit disorder see that the attention is enormous and convince drs that they have gender dysphoria.

          Milhouse in reply to mark311. | May 25, 2021 at 4:24 pm

          Sounds like an example of Munchausen Syndrome.

          Lausyl in reply to mark311. | May 25, 2021 at 8:46 pm

          When I hear these stories of parents with an 8 year old transgender; the first thing that pops into my mind is Munchausen by proxy.

          Milhouse in reply to mark311. | May 26, 2021 at 1:36 am

          Lausyl, I’m not convinced that Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy actually exists outside works of fiction. But Munchausen Syndrome itself certainly exists.

          CommoChief in reply to mark311. | May 26, 2021 at 8:35 am

          Milhouse,

          Munchausen by proxy seems a fair description for what some parents are engaging in.

          IMO, this is especially true for the parents who are stroking their own virtue/ego or woke bona fides by treating their kids as dolls and playing dress up.

          With teenagers ….well teen years have lots of potential moments for depression. Most kids work through it, some less so. I can sympathize with parents of teens showing signs of self harm. They just want the kid to be happy. In desperation they grab onto the trans train. It isn’t good but is more understandable than for a 6 year old.

        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to CommoChief. | May 25, 2021 at 6:16 pm

        I think we are in complete agreement.

      “Treatment should concentrate on making people with gender dysphoria comfortable with what God gave them, and the underlying problems they have that lead to their unhappiness. …”

      Whoa! What are you trying to do, destroy the leftist/feminist program to put everyone in chains?

    rt66paul in reply to CommoChief. | May 26, 2021 at 9:25 pm

    Most 18 year olds are not ready either. I would welcome 5 years of counselling first. The few that were given a gender at birth that they did not identify with could be a problem. These people were born with both organs and assigned a gender. Maybe if that was allowed to play out first with home schooling, it could be established.
    Others that feel that they are another sex, could have been traumatized when children. Reassignment surgery is an extreme reaction to what could be a mental issue. We should proceed with caution, in these cases.

      CommoChief in reply to rt66paul. | May 27, 2021 at 7:47 am

      We need to decide upon an age of adulthood and be consistent with that. Since at 18 one can vote, join the military ECT I don’t have an issue with that age.

      25 ain’t in the cards nor should it be, IMO.

Anybody here want to stand up and state that although they disagree with these perverts, they would fight to the death for their right to be perverts perverting everyone else?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Pasadena Phil. | May 25, 2021 at 12:57 pm

    I will stand up and say we are ALL perverts. Put another way, we are all sinners before God, and may God have mercy on our souls.

    But though it is blasphemy for anyone else other than God to render judgement for the eternal hereafter, I do claim the right to make judgements about people hear on earth, and shall claim my right to fight to the death either for or against you, or anyone else, as I see fit. Having said that, I urge upon us all to act with charity, forbearance, and forgiveness to the extent possible and practicable because, as stated, we are all sinners before God.

    Sanddog in reply to Pasadena Phil. | May 25, 2021 at 2:22 pm

    I don’t care what adults to to themselves. They’ll always find other predatory adults to pander to their whims. When they start dragging children into the mess, I’ve got a big problem with it.

Can’t have anyone saying the quiet part out loud. The official line is that changing genders is a happy, freeing celebration with absolutely no downside or remorse involved. We can’t have real people throwing out their real-world examples publicly to muddy up those waters.

I’m so glad I grew up in the sorta sane era. Otherwise I might have wanted to transition. Not because I really wanted to be a boy but because the boys got to do the fun stuff! When I was in high school we were still playing half court basketball! I was so glad when they added a roving guard and roving forward. I could run like the wind! By my senior year we were playing regular basketball. I was happy being a girl!

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to JoAnne. | May 25, 2021 at 1:05 pm

    I was called being a “Tom boy.” They got to be girls and do all the boy stuff, and were generally liked by the boys, and then become girls and do all the girl stuff anytime they wanted as well, generally endearing themselves further to the boys.

    Neo in reply to JoAnne. | May 25, 2021 at 1:24 pm

    Back when men were men and women were women and they liked it that way

    UserP in reply to JoAnne. | May 25, 2021 at 2:12 pm

    Transition is another word for pretend. One day children play superman, The next day they want to be a pirate or a princess. Unfortunately very few children know what they want to be when they grow up.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to UserP. | May 26, 2021 at 12:56 pm

      “Transition is another word for pretend.”

      I don’t know. Having your wiener cut off seems to go a bit beyond pretend to me.

        A boy who did that would have to be very brave Sir Robbin. But a boy having such a procedure would not turn into a girl. He would only be pretending. That’s why we should not allow children to transition. They should wait and make sure they won’t change their mind after they grow up. Hell, half of the freshmen in college still don’t know what they want to be when they grow up.

        henrybowman in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | May 30, 2021 at 12:43 pm

        It’s true commitment to cosplay.

“As the piece noted, every major medical association “supports” AFFIRMING…”

That’s the problem. A) support and affirmation is mandatory, regardless of whether the patient needs are truly being met.

The homosexual bands of the transgender (i.e. state or process of divergence) spectrum are stable. However, the neogender bands were demonstrated (Johns Hopkins) over decades to be unstable and forcing a conflation of sex and gender has only confirmed an already known majority failure rate. Perhaps they believe that normalization “neo and proud” would change the calculus. It’s Pro-Choice religious dogma, and in each population there is a faithful minority.

Back in the day, one would get drunk and wake up with a tattoo they regret.

Welcome to the future my friends.

henrybowman | May 25, 2021 at 1:29 pm

.

Grace Lidinsky-Smith: I can’t believe that I transitioned and detransitioned, including hormones and surgery, in the course of, like, less than one year. It’s completely crazy.

From your mouth to your psychiatrist’s ear, God willing.

It’s like masking, tattoos, Twitter. It’s trendy. It becomes a cult.
Sheep or lemmings, choose your favorite metaphor.

Observation: Every generation has its own zeitgeist comprised of whatever message society thought most important to pound into kids’ heads in their formative years:

Racism, equity and white supremacy.
Stranger Danger.
Stay drug-free and stay in school.
It isn’t about winning or losing.
Just say no to sex.
All you need is love.
Question authority.

My generation had its own: Resist peer pressure. It has served me well.
It looks like it’s time to bring that one back.

The basic question all leftist quests must answer is… does it offend normals.

    nordic_prince in reply to Anchovy. | May 26, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    That’s one of the options on their Magic 8 Ball. If something offends “normies,” then they’re like “Let’s go for it!”

This whole “trans” phenomenon is nothing short of a social contagion of mental illness.

For fucks-sake, it’s a well known medical fact that young people are not fully capable of rational thought until the age of about 25 due to lack of a fully developed pre-frontal cortex. The idea that they can make a well-formed decision to mutilate their body is beyond the pale. And any “adult” who would encourage them in such an endeavor is a monster deserving of monstrous repercussions.

I’m truly amazed we haven’t seen some of the “mental health professionals” who are pushing this nonsense wind up missing, or found as bone fragments in a hog yard, or in the bottom of a swamp feeding the alligators, etc.

Do you let children drink, no. Do you let children drive no. Do you let children join the army no. Do you let children change gender, apparently so. On face value it appears fucking retarded, pardon my French. I don’t get how such a serious and life changing operation could be anything other than a very difficult decision taken by an adult aware of the consequences.

    Mark, your side of the electorate brought this about, and you continue to support them being in power.

      Brave Sir Robbin in reply to TheFineReport.com. | May 25, 2021 at 6:24 pm

      At least Mark does not walk lock step. We should commend him for independent thought. My basic beef with Mark is that he often seems to think he is enlightened with independent thought when he is actually floating along with the dominate narrative, and he places too much dependence on certain self-appointed experts in the like. I do not know how old he is, but one day he will perhaps become as cynical as me.

      In God we trust – everyone else . . . not so much.

      Also, I was not paranoid until I realized they were plotting against me.

      @fine report

      As per usual you conflate the left as being a homogenous group. How many people do you really think actually hold the view that the 60 minutes programme was transphobic? Id be willing to bet its a pretty small minority.

      @BSR

      Yeah if the dominant narrative is supported by evidence sure, I’m skeptical of claims not supported by robust evidence. I think we can agree to disagree with regard to expert opinion, I don’t see the point in rehashing that argument.

The problem with much of what I’ve read above in the comment section is that it fails to take into account a parent’s love and implies that parents are undergoing this family trauma… why? because they want to be “trendy” at their child’s expense?

That’s bullshit.

When my daughter told me that she believed my grandson, who was born a genetic female, was gender dysphoric, she was worried that her conservative dad would disapprove. Because she is my daughter, she showed up at what she thought might be a gunfight with a gun. She produced a notebook/diary that she had been keeping pretty much from day one when she first got the feeling that something unusual was going on. Page after page after page of objective facts, dates, times, places, all written down completely without subjective comment. She purposefully did not intervene but continued to act as if he were a girl until his toy selection and behavior made it abundantly clear that he was not a “tomboy.”

Conservatives stand up for freedom and the rights of individuals. Why would anyone reading this blog believe that these family decisions would be any of their business?

I do believe that genetic males must be banned from women’s and girl’s athletics on fairness grounds. Know who else holds that position? Caitlin Jenner. Who am I to argue with a gold medal decathlete. My picture has never been on a Wheaties box. Hers has. It’s a civil rights issue, period. These people are different, but they’re still Americans with all the rights that go along with living in the land of the free, don’t you think?

    Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Hollymon. | May 25, 2021 at 6:33 pm

    Children are under the guidance protection of parents. They should not be allowed to make such drastic choices as hormone treatment and radical gender reassignment surgeries until they themselves can competently make that decision, and then only after much soul searching and therapy because it is such a radical step. If a guy wants to wear pink tutus with fishnet stockings and an Abraham Lincoln stove top hat, why should I care? I actually like people who are different. But gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy are very radical steps, and I bet not very effective at making someone happy, because no amount of hormone treatment and not amount of surgery actually makes a man into a woman, or a woman into a man as this is controlled at a fundamental biological level in a person’s DNA, and this outward dissatisfaction with themselves is not likely to be resolved anymore than if we encouraged anorexics to lose more weight.

      Hollymon in reply to Brave Sir Robbin. | May 25, 2021 at 9:02 pm

      You act as if “masculinity” and “femininity” were defined solely by the presence or the absence of the y chromosome. Biologically, and very narrowly speaking of course, they are, but THIS IS NOT ABOUT BIOLOGY. It’s about psychology. It’s about happiness. It’s about being in touch with your children and their self-image. Nobody rational is advocating gender reassignment surgery without intense therapy and discussion. Until children reach majority they must have a parent sign-off on any elective medical procedure of this nature.

      This is America. We define who we are.

        Brave Sir Robbin in reply to Hollymon. | May 25, 2021 at 10:57 pm

        “You act as if “masculinity” and “femininity” were defined solely by the presence or the absence of the y chromosome.”

        I never wrote or implied this at all. I wrote that gender is so determined, and gender does not imply per se any particular level of “masculinity” or “femininity.” Though the mean between the tow is broadly separated because of the presence or absence of a “Y” chromosome, there is overlap in behavior. That is not the issue at all. The issue is that gender is biologically determined while behavior and preferences are more more fluid, and not matter how hard someone tries, no one can turn themselves from being a male into being a female. It is biologically impossible, no matter how many hormones you take or how many surgeries you undergo. And because you cannot actually change your gender, you need to be real certain and of sound mind before you take that radical, expensive and dangerous course that may very likely not provide you with any increased happiness, which is my point, and only point.

        Milhouse in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 1:45 am

        Nobody rational is advocating gender reassignment surgery without intense therapy and discussion.

        That is precisely the point here. You’re right that nobody rational is doing so. But the trans lobby which has now captured the Democrat Party, the news media, and the academic, medical, and legal establishments, is not rational, and is in fact advocating exactly that.

        Until children reach majority they must have a parent sign-off on any elective medical procedure of this nature.

        Really?! What about abortion? How sure are you that this isn’t treated the same way? And how confident are you that it won’t be in the near future?

          Hollymon in reply to Milhouse. | May 26, 2021 at 8:20 pm

          This is NOT the same thing as abortion. I’m sure that you will be outraged, but I believe nobody has the right to turn unwilling women into state-controlled incubators. That is the antithesis of freedom.

          Many believe that abortion is murder. Good for them. I do not.

          The notion that a ten minute D and C is comparable to years of hormone therapy and reconstruction surgery to the person going under the knife is patently absurd.

          Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | May 29, 2021 at 10:28 pm

          Abortion is murder, but that’s not the point here. The point is that it’s a medical procedure that will have a major impact on the rest of the patient’s life, and yet doctors routinely perform it on minors without their parents even knowing about it, let alone consenting. So what makes you think a doctor would hesitate for one second to do this to a minor? Why would someone who doesn’t think it’s any of the parents’ business that their daughter is pregnant (which is itself a major medical event) or that she’s having an abortion, think it is their business that she’s taking hormones or that she wants her bits rearranged? And what has the length of the procedure got to do with it?

        henrybowman in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 1:47 am

        “Until children reach majority they must have a parent sign-off on any elective medical procedure of this nature.”

        You say this as if it were true.

          Hollymon in reply to henrybowman. | May 26, 2021 at 8:27 pm

          Cite a single actual case in which someone 16 or under got the full Monty: hormones, therapy, and then gender reassignment surgery without the approval of at least one parent, assuming that the parents are alive. Yes, I do say this as if it were true. Here, I’ll say it again. This is true.

          Now, YOU prove that it isn’t. A single documented case will do the trick. I actually believe in the value of facts.

          rt66paul in reply to henrybowman. | May 26, 2021 at 9:45 pm

          I would question any parent that would do this. The individual needs to experience life. If the individual is a hermorphadite, that might be different, but then there would be a lifetime of medical study.

          Milhouse in reply to henrybowman. | May 29, 2021 at 11:41 pm

          Cite a single actual case in which someone 16 or under got the full Monty: hormones, therapy, and then gender reassignment surgery without the approval of at least one parent, assuming that the parents are alive. Yes, I do say this as if it were true.

          Now you’re moving the goalposts. First of all, why 16, not 18? And why only “the full monty”? You’ve just basically admitted that children under 16 are getting all but the surgery without parental consent, and that those over 16 but under 18 are getting the surgery too, again without parental consent. How do you justify that?

          On February 25 this year, at Rachel Levine’s confirmation hearing, Rand Paul asked her directly, “Do you support the government intervening to override the [lack of] parent’s consent to give a child puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and/or amputation surgery of the breasts and genitalia?” Levine point blank refused to answer. Now tell me, if the real answer were not “yes”, why would she evade the question? So even if consent is now required, when that is the opinion of the person with the most power to change that by administrative fiat, how can we be confident it will continue?

          Here’s another very influential group that has openly come out advocating that minors under 16 should be able to transition (including surgery) without parental consent. Again, even if that’s not currently the case, with support like that how can we be confident it won’t be soon?

          Even where parental consent is required, it is often coerced.

          henrybowman in reply to henrybowman. | May 30, 2021 at 12:54 pm

          It’s been the law in California since 2018 that children as young as 12 can go the “full Monty” without parental permission if their parents are foster parents. Your meaningless codicil that the child’s natural parents need to be alive to win your bet is noted and dismissed as irrelevant.

          And, of course, the bus isn’t stopping there (1, 2).

        mark311 in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 4:28 am

        @Hollymon,

        Firstly I respect your views, its a difficult subject in the sense that we are talking about deep changes in a child and how do you determine whether that’s a gender issue or rooted in something else? I get the strong impression that the drs involved in diagnosing gender dysphoria aren’t typically doing anything other than a cursory job. To be specific the use of the term rapid onset gender dysphoria which basically means that someone is diagnosed not in the careful considered manner that you illustrate with your story but as an occurrence over a short space of time. In the case of diagnosis of the issues by so called medical professionals my view of the ‘experts’ is that they are acting with far to much certainty over something that they certainly don’t appear to be treating with suitable care and attention.

        Clearly I’m referring to a sub set of cases, but never the less the fact a kid can transition has profound and life changing consequences. Its best for the kid involved that they wait until they are sure able to make that decision IMO.

          henrybowman in reply to mark311. | May 26, 2021 at 9:48 am

          “I get the strong impression that the drs involved in diagnosing gender dysphoria aren’t typically doing anything other than a cursory job.”

          The old truism that 50% of all professionals graduated in the bottom half of their class should never be forgotten.

          “Doctor Feelgood” has been practicing for centuries. People who really want substance X or procedure Y don’t have to expend undue effort to find a doctor who agrees that this is exactly what they need.* And then through the “social networks,” other people get to know who they are. We’ve had generations of women brought up on Mother’s Little Helper. This is just another turn of the wheel.

          *Unless they are Evel Knievel. He must have been really bad at doctor shopping.

          mark311 in reply to mark311. | May 27, 2021 at 6:58 am

          @Henry Bowman

          Yeah that truism doesn’t actually tell anyone anything of substance. The question is what’s the standard of that field. In the case of those diagnosing gender dysphoria that standard appears to be low. If you were to take IDK a medical dr id be willing to say the low end of any class who still makes it through still has a reasonable standard of competence. Psychology as a field is pretty fuzzy and suffers from repeatability issues, certainty issues, and a wide spectrum of standards IMO.

        nordic_prince in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 10:02 am

        If “it’s about psychology” as you seem to acknowledge, then why would you think a physical operation would be the solution to what is fundamentally a psychological illness?

        Treating symptoms rather than root causes solves nothing. That’s the primary reason for post-operative regrets and/or trans suicides – not “transphobia,” societal lack of understanding, or other bullshit. These confused souls realize too late the problem is in their head, not in their plumbing or how they come off to the rest of the world.

          Hollymon in reply to nordic_prince. | May 26, 2021 at 8:42 pm

          “If “it’s about psychology” as you seem to acknowledge, then why would you think a physical operation would be the solution to what is fundamentally a psychological illness?”

          You mean like brain surgery or chemical treatment of mental illness?

          Nope, I can’t go there, primarily because I believe that my grandson is not suffering from a “psychological illness.” He’s not “ill.” He’s just different. Why should you or anybody else give a rat’s ass about the problems faced by gender dysphorics? Who are you to judge his reality?

          Many “confused souls” believe that they are free to control their own bodies in a free country. Maybe not for too much longer.

          henrybowman in reply to nordic_prince. | May 30, 2021 at 1:12 pm

          “Why should you or anybody else give a rat’s ass about the problems faced by gender dysphorics? … Many “confused souls” believe that they are free to control their own bodies in a free country.”

          Motte. Bailey.

          They’re more than welcome to give a rat’s ass about their own problems, and control their own bodies any way they like. It’s when they project their psychological illness upon me by demanding legal mandates that force me to play along with their delusions (such as requiring me to put a born boy on a girl’s team, or “set aside” admission positions that should have gone to someone more worthy), that I put my foot down.

          And for the record? Yes, I believe it’s trendiness, and little else.

          RandomCrank in reply to nordic_prince. | May 30, 2021 at 6:54 pm

          Um, Holly, how old was this grand”son” when it got the radical cosmetic surgery? Who paid the bill?

    daniel_ream in reply to Hollymon. | May 25, 2021 at 8:02 pm

    At the 10-15 year mark, those who have surgically transitioned fall into one of three categories: dead by suicide (40%), reverting or regretting the transition (40%), still alive (20%). The suicide rate is identical to dysmorphics who never surgically transition,

    The transition surgery doesn’t ameliorate the dysmorphia and it makes things worse by adding a host of surgical complications to an otherwise healthy body. This is why the creators of the procedure ultimately stopped performing it: it doesn’t help.

    When my daughter told me […]

    I notice you don’t mention the child’s father.

      Hollymon in reply to daniel_ream. | May 25, 2021 at 8:24 pm

      “I notice you don’t mention the child’s father.”

      May I ask what the f that is supposed to imply? Speak plainly or shut up. You know nothing about her family dynamics or its constitution.

      Don’t beat around the bush, Dan. Hurl your sludge.

        Egghead in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 7:43 am

        Well, it would seem to be important to study whether the mother is very dominant (and/or has mental health issues) and the father is very passive when the child chooses a sex to emulate.

        nordic_prince in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 10:08 am

        What – do you imagine the father’s input is irrelevant? It’s his flesh and blood too, unless the child is a clone.

        Looks like Daniel’s comment hit pretty close to home, judging by your reaction.

      Milhouse in reply to daniel_ream. | May 26, 2021 at 1:52 am

      Hmm, those stats don’t seem to match my experience. In general I don’t make it a habit to ask transsexuals about their surgical status, since it’s none of my business, so for most of the ones I know I have no idea what they have under their clothes. But of the ones whose status I believe I do know, and whom I’ve known for that long, only one is dead, nobody seems to know what of, and all the rest seem happy, at least on the outside.

        Hollymon in reply to Milhouse. | May 26, 2021 at 12:01 pm

        Milhouse, you have split the arrow, but you need to be careful. Too much more rational speech in this forum is likely to draw the attention of the benighted.

        Milhouse in reply to Milhouse. | May 28, 2021 at 8:07 pm

        Correction: I now recall that two are dead, but the second one she had been in poor health for a long time so I’m almost certain it was not suicide. In the first case nobody I have spoken to seems to know what she died of, so suicide is a possibility, but I have a strong feeling that it wasn’t, because she had a great horror of it, having once been the one who came home to fine one.

    CommoChief in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 9:06 am

    Hollymon,

    Let me see if I can clarify my position.
    1. Gender dysphoria is a reality and a valid diagnosis for an actual condition.
    2. Transition is likely the only way to successfully deal with this condition long term.

    That said, the actual numbers of valid diagnosis are extraordinarily rare, IMO.

    What we are beginning to recognize is many of these folks are misdiagnosed by unethical providers. These depressed folks aren’t being treated for depression and the causes of that depression.

    This seems especially so with children and teens. Instead of addressing the causes of their depression; social awkwardness, isolation, being bullied ECT, these kids are latching onto the fad.

    They want to be in a group or have everyone know who they are instead of alternating between being bullied or being ignored or worse ostracized.

    They are x gender. They are unhappy. Particularly for awkward, non athletic boys who possess more feminine traits and tendencies they latch onto the idea that god made them wrong.

    Having an outside force to blame for one’s problems is seductive. These, IMO, unethical providers simply validate their wishes and approve the plan to transition.

    Our mental health community is doing a horrible job in general. They would prefer to hand out anti anxiety meds rather than force their patients to do the very difficult work of confronting and addressing their problems.

    We see this in the numbers of homeless with mental illness who are spurned by their mental health community. These people have issues that are extremely challenging. The mental health community effectively abandoned them as too difficult to treat.

    Why would we expect that the same mental health community wouldn’t take the easiest path with teens and young adults who show up claiming gender dysphoria?

      Hollymon in reply to CommoChief. | May 26, 2021 at 12:29 pm

      “Why would we expect that the same mental health community wouldn’t take the easiest path with teens and young adults who show up claiming gender dysphoria?”

      CommoChief : Nobody “claimed” anything. My grandson’s mother noticed what she thought was unusual behavior for a very young girl and began taking notes and documenting that behavior. Eventually, it became clear to her that this looked a lot more serious than a “phase.”

      Then, and only then did she seek medical help. In other words, she did everything exactly right.

      You said it yourself.

      “1. Gender dysphoria is a reality and a valid diagnosis for an actual condition.
      2. Transition is likely the only way to successfully deal with this condition long term.”

      Could it be that this is one of those? Maybe yes, maybe no. My money’s on “yes.”

        CommoChief in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 3:43 pm

        Hollymon,

        I was obviously speaking in general terms because I did not address the personal situation you described.

        IMO, the vast majority of these people are being wilfully misdiagnosed and betrayed by the mental health community. In some cases their parents facilitate this exploitation and malpractice.

        That doesn’t mean that a tiny fraction of these cases of true gender dysphoria don’t exist. Nor does it mean that your grandson doesn’t fall into this category.

        I understand this is a very personal issue for you and a minority of the comments on the post could be interpreted as castigating you. Mine are not among them.

        I don’t have a dog in this fight other than attempting to point out the exploitation and malpractice that the majority of these cases, IMO, represent.

    creeper in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 10:12 am

    You’ve written volumes about what your daughter says, thinks and does. You’ve thrown in your own opinion copiously. You haven’t written one word about your granddaughter says, does or thinks.

    It’s easy to see whats going on here.

      Hollymon in reply to creeper. | May 26, 2021 at 12:11 pm

      My grand-daughter supports and loves her older brother, just like we all do. You’re right, creeper, it is “easy to see whats going on here.” A bunch of presumptuous, poorly-informed, self-righteous haters are revealing their “inner ugly.”

        RandomCrank in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 6:51 pm

        If he/she/it wants to mutilate herself, is an adult, and can find a doctor who will do it, I’m in favor of his/her/it’s right to destroy his/her/its life. The civil rights angle is virtue-signaling horseshit. Look, Holly, no one cares what it does. If it looks weird like the VAST majority of transits do, then other people will notice. If the operation was really botched, or tried to convert a linebacker into a model, they might even stare. If it doesn’t like that, tough luck to it, and to you.

    You don’t mention how old your granddaugher was when your daughter decided her daughter was “gender dysphoric.” I think this matters since you are talking about what your daughter decided upon observing her child, not what the child herself said or thought. I’m not picking at you, I just think this is an important point. Did the girl’s mom decide she had a problem? If so, based on what? Or did she, herself, say she did? If so, based on what? And at what age?

    This sounds extremely sketchy to me, pretty trollish (I especially admire the references to what you imagine righties believe).

    henrybowman in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 1:23 pm

    “She produced a notebook/diary that she had been keeping pretty much from day one when she first got the feeling that something unusual was going on. Page after page after page of objective facts, dates, times, places, all written down completely without subjective comment.”

    I’m sorry, but a diary kept by a (witting or unwitting) advocate, full of “objective facts without subjective comment,” where the events chosen to be recorded and the events left unrecorded are entirely under the control of that advocate, would be recognized by any objective reviewer as… subjective.

    This level of evidence falls afoul of so many fallacies — the Baader-Meinhof effect, the weatherman’s fallacy, zero-blinding… that it would not be persuasive (much less convincing) to any honest judge, statistician, social worker, or psychologist.

    RandomCrank in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 6:44 pm

    I don’t care as long as we’re talking about adults, and as long as they realize that this is nothing more than cosmetic surgery. Oh, and as long as they pay for it themselves.

mister naturel | May 26, 2021 at 5:03 am

the mentally defective being sterilized?
seems i’ve seen that one before.
was it oliver wendell whats-his-name?

texansamurai | May 26, 2021 at 7:44 am

I notice you don’t mention the child’s father.
____________________________________

the smoking gun, indeed

hollymon–you exhibit the classic symptoms of the “enabler” and would also say that you and your daughter are “co-dependent” and definitely in the “denial” phase

you project all your issues onto your daughter and grandchild with the transparent justification of concern for that child’s “happiness, being in touch with them, etc.”

that’s bullshit–based on what you’ve posted, especially your reference to “her conservative dad(presumably your husband)” being opposed, literally speaks volumes–you and your daughter, for the sake of that innocent child, need to seek help and (though it’s probably too late already)leave your grandchild alone and to the guidance/protection of someone else

    Hollymon in reply to texansamurai. | May 26, 2021 at 11:55 am

    “you and your daughter, for the sake of that innocent child, need to seek help and (though it’s probably too late already)leave your grandchild alone and to the guidance/protection of someone else”

    What an ASSHOLE thing to say!

    texansamurai, you couldn’t be more full of shit. You know absolutely nothing about me or my daughter or her family, but you assume and make pronouncements and, above all, judgements about our fitness to raise a child in our family.. I have no doubt that you feel qualified to label me an “enabler” and “c0-dependent” like you were Dr. Phil. I believe that you are completely unqualified to make any pronouncements primarily because you have no relevant background. Let me cite just one fact which your presumption of a “smoking gun” seems to have missed.

    I AM my daughter’s dad. I spoke of myself in the third person out of pride for a daughter who is way, way tougher than you and the rest of these presumptuous assholes who, if they stood on each other’s shoulders, would still fall short of the half-wit mark. She took the time to notice and then document her child’s behavior for a long long time. before seeking professional help. Unlike you, she entered this situation without bias, with no real knowledge whatsoever of the issue. Her child’s behavior forced her and her husband to come to grips with the issue.

    Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in my family or hers takes this matter as anything other than deadly serious. The welfare of a child is at stake.

      rt66paul in reply to Hollymon. | May 26, 2021 at 10:07 pm

      I remember a couple of girls who could out do the boys in sports and rode bikes with the boys and were just like the boys. The girls shunned them(but many, I suspect actually were jealous) because of their freedom. They both were sought after for prom dates, were married, had families and raised kids – were great mothers.
      They did not take crap from anyone, parents, teachers, counselors, etc. What is wrong with that?

      I’m late to this discussion, @Hollymon, but you are way out of line. We do not tolerate the sort of ad hominem attacks you are launching against our readers. Keep it civil. This means not calling our readers names. If you cannot do this, all comments that attack our readers on a personal basis will be removed. You can make your points without being ridiculously and pointedly rude to people; if you cannot, then you cannot comment here.

      mark311 in reply to Hollymon. | May 27, 2021 at 7:13 am

      @Hollymon

      I think texansamurai’s sin here is to make assumptions about you and your family dynamic which is wrong. Its been interesting reading your perspective on the issue which has been informative.

      I think to an extent part of the issue with the discussion itself is some commentators are talking in general terms and others are trying to link the general to the specific which falls apart because your granddaughters situation has been clearly defined from the point of view of what’s right for your granddaughter. In others words the process of transitioning has been thought about over a long period of time. I would say its a fair comment to ask what your granddaughters views were? At what stage is she in along the process? Clearly your daughter has documented and concluded that gender dysphoria is the issue, has that gotten to the next stage of an assessment by a third party?

Why is it that a person who wants to cut off his/her hand is mentally ill, but a person who wants to cut off his/her private parts is NOT mentally ill?!

    UserP in reply to Egghead. | May 26, 2021 at 8:18 am

    Because the patients are in charge of the nuthouse.

    Hollymon in reply to Egghead. | May 26, 2021 at 12:50 pm

    That’s an easy one, Egghead. Many people seek to have what appear to be perfectly good body parts removed or reconstructed. Some are mentally ill, sure, but many believe that in the long run they will benefit from the procedure.

    From where I sit, Angelina Jolie’s breasts were just fine before she had a radical double mastectomy. As I recall the story, although there was no evidence of cancer in her breasts, a genetic marker which placed her in genuine danger of dying young from breast cancer was discovered.

    She chose to have the prophylactic operation. Nobody forced her. She chose. Was she “mentally ill” at the time?

    What would YOU do if your hand were gangrenous?

    My point is that you have made your argument as if the extreme positions were the only possible ones. Like most things in life- now stand by for strong message- reality is exceedingly rarely black and white only. Very few real life choices are binary. Grey dominates reality, well, not for everybody it would appear.

      You’re kidding, right? Angelina Jolie? Who walked around with a vial of Billy Joe Whomever’s blood around her neck and French-kissed her brother at some awards show? Yeah, she’s the pillar of morality, sanity, and good judgement to which I would want my kids to aspire. Gee, what about Charles Manson? He was totes cool with disfiguring his forehead with the Swastika and thought his brainwashed acolytes doing the same was just peachy, everyone should be so mentally stable!

      You sound like a crazy person. I am being generous here. Get help.

        mark311 in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 27, 2021 at 7:28 am

        @Fuzzy slippers

        Hollymons point is that Angelina Jolie’s actions in terms of the breast cancer were justified based on the risk it posed. That was a judgement calls based on her willingness to take that risk. I don’t think the claim was to aspire to her as a moral character nor am i clear that trivial actions as you mention really say much about her ability to make rational choices. Your choice of analogy is poor. Charles Manson had a delusion that caused him to cause harm to himself and others with no rational basis that’s quite different from Angelina Jolie

          @mark311, and let us continue our study of logical fallacy. What is the logial fallacy this @Hollymons uses here? Is there any correlation at all between its child/grandchild (who knows since Hollymons story changes throughout this thread) being deemed by its mother or grandmother or dad or whatever the current story is to be “trans” and thus to physically mutilate the child by lopping off her breasts (or maybe her testes, who knows from this random rant of conflicting narratives?) and finding, as an adult, that one has a genetic disposition to breast cancer and then choosing, again as an adult who is terrified of breast cancer, to have one’s breasts removed. Not to “become” a man but to minimize risk of breast cancer (and it’s only minimized, breast cancer does not rely on X-cup mammary tissue, per se, since men get it, too).

          Is there a difference in these scenarios? Let’s think . . . and by think, I mean actually think, for yourself, @mark311, not read some study or gobble up some nutcase’s logical fallacy (again, which one is Hollymon using here?).

          henrybowman in reply to mark311. | May 30, 2021 at 1:33 pm

          Furthermore, Jolie’s actions were taken on the basis of long-documented medical risk. This is quite different from “I don’t feel good about my breasts.” Jolie can point to lots of data showing that removal generally leads to better health outcomes, This is something that I understand the TG community cannot — people who feel dangerously bad about themselves before the transition quite often continue to feel dangerously bad about themselves after the transition.

          But, as I have stated here, I really don’t care if someone wants to turn him or herself into a Futurama head in a jar, as long as the damage is confined to themselves and their loved ones. The moment they go lobbying for laws that put any part of the onus of “their decision” on other people is the moment I call Shenanigans.

    Milhouse in reply to Egghead. | May 30, 2021 at 12:24 am

    Egghead, in fact there are people who want their hands amputated, for no medical reason, and there are surgeons who do it for them with no moral compunctions. Search for “body integrity dysphoria”.

    I’ve never heard of it being done on minors, but it wouldn’t surprise me if that were coming.

bullhubbard | May 26, 2021 at 9:48 am

The following claim is inevitable in any discussion of trans-sexuals: “[C]onservatives [. . .] would like nothing more than for trans people to not exist.”

This utterly nonsensical statement is the standard rebuttal to anyone (conservative or other) who questions any aspect of trans-sexuality, the medical industry that capitalizes on them, and especially anyone who insists that the biological difference between the sexes is a good thing, a necessary condition for perpetuation of mankind, and who dares to point out that it is (as yet) impossible to completely change one’s sex to its opposite, despite freakish outliers like the man who allegedly gestated a fertilized ovum and despite those with genuine “gender dysphoria” or hermaphroditism.

This rhetorical equivalent of a hysterical fainting spell equates the commonsense view of sex and gender with genocide, and it is not a metaphor in the fevered imaginations of the trans lobby’s sheep-like leftist minions.

To an extent, this zeal is an excessive response to the occasional persecution of known trans-sexuals, but mainly the claim that any criticisms of trans-sexual liberation movement are the equivalent of a death threat is the result of trans-sexuals becoming another persecuted minority among the neo-Marxist proletariat of the “marginalized.”

To top it off, sex-reassignment has become fashionable among those alienated adolescents who have been subjected to the religion of identity routinely proselytized in American public schools, a catechism reinforced by a medical establishment willing to accommodate the mutilation of the gullible youth, a horrifying example of which is the subject of the “60 Minutes” story.

    Milhouse in reply to bullhubbard. | May 26, 2021 at 10:43 am

    The following claim is inevitable in any discussion of trans-sexuals: “[C]onservatives [. . .] would like nothing more than for trans people to not exist.”

    No, I think it’s a fair statement. We would also like blind and deaf people not to exist, as well as cancer patients, people in wheel chairs, etc.

    To a normal person such a sentiment is obvious; in an ideal world nobody would have such problems, because we could prevent or cure them. But to some people, such as the nutcases who spell “Deaf” with a capital D, I am advocating genocide. If it were in my power I would eliminate deafness. Of course I wouldn’t forcibly treat a deaf adult who refused it, but I’d have no problem doing so to deaf children. And if I could put something in the air or the water that cured deafness automatically I’d do it, regardless of the protests from those who are so sick in the head that they want to stay deaf. And no, that is not genocide, that is benevolence.

      Hollymon in reply to Milhouse. | May 26, 2021 at 1:21 pm

      Bingo! Another arrow, split.

      Nobody is in favor of disabilities like blindness of deafness. No sane person willfully blinds himself. Lots of folks were anti-fluoride. Many thought it was a “commie plot.” I’m sure that some still do. It wasn’t. It was just a reasonable public health strategy designed to lessen tooth decay. Still is.

      Transsexualism is unusual, but neither a mental illness nor a disability, nor is it chosen. It is merely one facet of what it means to be human. We all get our three score and ten if we’re lucky. Folks just want to be happy. I read somewhere about “the pursuit of happiness” being something fundamental to our national persona, something everyone deserves a shot at. Transsexuals get enough judgement every day from malicious, ill-informed folks.

      I would hope that the kind of people who read L.I. would figure that out and support individual rights, at least for fellow Americans.

        Milhouse in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 12:34 am

        Nobody is in favor of disabilities like blindness of deafness.

        That is just not true. There are many deaf people, who style themselves “Deaf” with a capital D, who do like deafness and deny that it is a disability. They see Deafness as their identity, and any attempt to cure them of it as mere bigotry. They see the treatment of deaf children as literally genocide, an attempt to make Deaf people extinct.

        In fact they see it exactly the way the Gay establishment sees any attempt to cure homosexuality; they’re offended by the very notion that it needs “curing”, and if someone were to discover it was caused by something in the womb, and a treatment to prevent it, so that no more gay babies would be born, they would call that genocide.

          This is true, @Milhouse. I remember the controversy regarding cochlear implants and how the Deaf (capital “D”) rejected the technology as both demeaning (they don’t see themselves as impaired and needing “fixing”) and as damaging to the Deaf community by imposing hearing on those who want it, thus alienating them from their Deaf fellows.

          That said, being deaf is an actual medical fact. Being “trans” is . . . less settled science. Particularly in children and young adults. And the “fix” for transsexuals is mutilation of their bodies and a lifetime commitment to taking hormones they don’t need to achieve a goal that can never be reached (a biological male cannot become a biological female, and vice versa).

        Milhouse in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 12:35 am

        Transsexualism is unusual, but neither a mental illness nor a disability, nor is it chosen. It is merely one facet of what it means to be human.

        The Deaf community says the same thing about deafness.

          Hmmm, so @Hollymon, if being transsexual is but one facet of being human (and it may well be), why would you want to mutilate your child’s body to conform to an inhuman concept of what a transsexual is? If it’s normal and fine, and I don’t see why it’s not, why fiddle with the humanity of it? Why try to become something you can never be (a man cannot become a women, and vice versa) when you can just embrace your humanity as a transsexual? The thing you were born to be, right?

          You do understand that a biological male can never become a biological female and that a biological female can never become a biological male, right? That is the science. You can lop off this and that, take hormones, don wigs, or have weird “penises” created from back skin, but that doesn’t change your biological sex. It can’t. It’s scientifically impossible for a biological male/female human being to become its opposite.

          You can demand to be called by whatever pronouns you want, and I would certainly respect your choice and call you by that pronoun, but no medical doctor, not amount of cancel culture pressure, no amount of pretense and self-delusion will ever make you a biological male if you were born a biological female (and vice versa). Being trans is fine, enjoy it, embrace it, but don’t pretend that you can ever become something you literally and scientifically cannot.

        henrybowman in reply to Hollymon. | May 30, 2021 at 1:59 pm

        “Lots of folks were anti-fluoride. Many thought it was a “commie plot.” I’m sure that some still do. It wasn’t. It was just a reasonable public health strategy designed to lessen tooth decay. Still is.”

        Lots of folks tend to think that everything that government does with good intentions works successfully. Others are wiser.

        “Lots of folks were anti Jerry Ford’s Swine Flu vaccine. Many thought it was a “commie plot.” I’m sure that some still do. It wasn’t. It was just a reasonable public health strategy designed to lessen Swine Flu.”

        And yet, it killed or permanently injured many thousands of Americans, whereas the Swine Flu itself killed exactly one.

        Shoe-store x-ray machines. The original Food Pyramid. Slave Redemption. Thalidomide. All reasonable public strategies to help alleviate some problem. All went horribly wrong. But none were implemented in a way that forced you to partake of them.

        You can avoid fluoride if you are determined, at great inconvenience, and redundant expense — the closest analogy that comes to my mind is public schooling.

SeekingRationalThought | May 26, 2021 at 10:56 am

Regressive “progressives” hate it when someone calls bullshit on them. If Leslie Stahl and 60 minutes can grasp this reality, every blind squirrel in the world can find this acorn. Well done Leslie. Keep that firm grip on the obvious. Its a great step forward for you, 60 Minutes, and “journalism” as a whole.

texansamurai | May 26, 2021 at 1:46 pm

Transition is another word for pretend. One day children play superman, The next day they want to be a pirate or a princess. Unfortunately very few children know what they want to be when they grow up.
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thank you–perfectly stated–accurate/precise

Anyone who remembers high school realize how fleeting convictions can be or how negative thoughts of self-image can become. If every health insurance plan paid 100% of the cost of nose reconstruction surgery, 100$ of high school students would go under the knife. Growing up is a process of testing beliefs and .exploring life. It is the time when a kid learns to accept that he or she will not become a NASCAR driver or NBA superstar. At graduation, the speaker promises, “You can become whatever you want to be come,” but that is not literally true. Life is complicated and young people can get very confused by peer pressure.

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