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LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 14 – Defense Rests, Chauvin Will Not Testify, Asserts 5A

LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 14 – Defense Rests, Chauvin Will Not Testify, Asserts 5A

State recalls Dr. Tobin, pulmonologist, to rebut defense expert Dr. Fowler’s testimony of yesterday

Welcome to our ongoing coverage of the Minnesota murder trial of Derek Chauvin, over the in-custody death of George Floyd.  I am Attorney Andrew Branca for Law of Self Defense.

As we rapidly approach the conclusion of the testimony in Minnesota v. Chauvin it appears that the defense intends to close its case in chief by bringing at least three more medical expert witnesses before the jury, based on the expert witness disclosure filed by the defense back in January (disclosure embedded below).

Among those experts listed in the disclosure who have not yet testified are Dr. Gary W. Kunsman, a forensic toxicologist, Dr. Michael Werner, a forensic psychiatrist, and Dr. Kai Sturmann, an emergency medicine doctor.

Here’s the expert disclosure form:

Stay with us right here all day as we LIVE stream the court proceedings, as well LIVE blog testimony throughout the day.

Here’s the LIVE streaming of today’s proceedings here:

And here’s our LIVE blogging of today’s proceedings:

Law of Self Defense Podcast

Anyone interested in a free podcast version of our daily legal commentary and analysis of the Chauvin trial can access the Law of Self Defense News/Q&A Podcast, available on most every podcast platform, including PandoraiHeartSpotifyApple PodcastGoogle Podcastsimple RSS feed, and more.

And thanks, as always, to both Legal Insurrection and CCW Safe for the support that makes my coverage of this case possible.


Attorney Andrew F. Branca

Law of Self Defense LLC

Attorney Andrew F. Branca’s legal practice has specialized exclusively in use-of-force law for thirty years.  Andrew provides use-of-force legal consultancy services to attorneys across the country, as well as near-daily use-of-force law insight, expertise, and education to lawyers and non-lawyers alike. He wrote the first edition of the “Law of Self Defense” in 1997, which you can now order in its current edition for just the price of shipping and handling by clicking here.  To know YOUR state’s use-of-force laws in an actionable way that will keep you safer physically and legally, take our state-specific advanced use of force class either streamed online or via a shipped DVD with a 100% no-question- asked money-back guarantee, here:  Law of Self Defense State Specific Use-Of-Force Class.

[Featured image is a screen capture from video of today’s court proceedings in MN v. Chauvin.]




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the billion dollar question still remains, does Chauvin testify, if I was a betting person, I would say no.

    Smooth23 in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 10:08 am

    I’d say not a chance.

    TargaGTS in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 10:17 am

    The last high profile defendant in a case like this who did testify was Amber Guyger, the off-duty Dallas cop who shot a man in his own apartment. She did reasonably well on the stand from what I saw. But, that didn’t help her. She was still convicted. The case against her was far stronger than the case against Chauvin, IMO.

    I don’t think he testifies because I don’t think there’s any upside for him. Any juror who believes he’s guilty after all the reasonable doubt that has already been established, isn’t going to be moved by Chauvin’s real-time denial.

      Midfiaudiophile in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 10:51 am

      I would have agreed up to the point of Brodd’s testimony going sideways, but a lot of ground was lost on the “reasonable officer” front. I think there would be an upside in allowing him to discuss his thought process for every stage of the altercation, including explicitly stating that he was under the impression that medical backup would be there in a matter of seconds when considering whether to modify Mr. Floyd’s restraint and/or begin resuscitation efforts. Also, Chauvin’s voice, based on what we’ve seen on videos, is not what you’d expect from the officer displayed in the one ubiquitous freezeframe where he has his “hands in his pockets, looking at Donald Williams as if to say ‘Yeah, I’m killing him. So what?'” and might help to humanize him.

      The question is whether the potential downside to allowing him to be cross-examined is larger than any upside, especially given the pre-existing bias of the jury pool. Buck61, below, says that Chauvin has announced that he won’t testify, and, while I’m not sure how binding that may be, I won’t second-guess Nelson and his decision.

        With all the suspicious allowances the judge as made to favor the state beginning with denying moving the trial location it wouldn’t surprise me they just want a conviction now knowing it will likely be successfully appealed months or even years from now. Chauvin is the state’s sacrificial goat to stop rioting, the destruction of Minneapolis homes and businesses and murder.

      Char Char Binks in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 3:16 pm

      I believed Guyger was not guilty, until I heard her own testimony.

      I don’t believe she was guilty of the murder she was convicted of, but was guilty of manslaughter, due to her negligent and reckless behavior.

    buck61 in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 10:22 am

    Chauvin has announced to the court that he will not testify

    Mike Wilson in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 10:56 am

    no frickin way. not happening

    JohnT in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 11:37 am

    That was the narrative the mainstream media propagandists tried to push to promote the idea that Chauvin was losing so badly he had to testify. There wasn’t any basis to believe Chauvin would testify.

Well, I hope today goes as well for the defense as yesterday did.
I really don’t see how anyone can still not have reasonable doubt, after hearing Dr Fowler, that Chauvin is responsible for Floyd’s death.

Even the prosecution seems wholly unsure as to what killed Floyd.
First it was the knee cutting off blood flow, then the knee on the back of the neck asphyxiating him, wait… wait… it was the 1000 pounds of pressure on his back… or maybe it was his lack of providing CPR. Whatever it was, it was certainly Chauvin’s fault! We are positive that it was NOT Floyd’s massive dose of Fentynal, his enlarged heart, his advanced heart disease, the Meth in his system, nor his choice to fight with the police. Nope, definitely not that!

LongTimeReader | April 15, 2021 at 10:23 am

I had forgotten a chemist was part of the jury. That renews my faith about a deep thinker seated.

Also, thank the stars, Chauvin is asserting his 5th amendment rights. It ended poorly for Slager, Guyger, Van Dyke, could have gone really wrong for Tensing.

What was the point of Blackwell’s use of the CO2 as “new evidence”? Fowler did say it might have played an insignificant role in the cause of death.

Was this an attempt to discredit Fowler? Let’s see what Nelson does on cross.

    Observer in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 11:18 am

    Yes, it was an attempt to discredit Fowler. The state wants to argue that Fowler was wrong about Floyd’s oxygen uptake having been (slightly) compromised by carbon monoxide from the car exhaust, and the lab test proves it, so how can the jury accept any of Fowler’s other medical opinions about the cause of Floyd’s death?

    In reality, Fowler only said that the CO might have been a contributing factor, and that the state should have tested for it (in the interests of thoroughness), but that it wasn’t the cause of Floyd’s death. The state is trying to make the CO issue a bigger deal than it was, because it’s a way to insinuate that Fowler doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

      geronl in reply to Observer. | April 15, 2021 at 1:15 pm

      Lab tests do not “prove it”, since there was no lab test for it done. Besides he says it was only a very minor factor on top of all the rest.

Why would defense not want Dr. Gary W. Kunsman, Dr. Michael Werner, and Dr. Kai Sturmann to testify? Surely they could only help Chauvin’s case?

So now Blackwell is trying to convince Cahill to allow Tobin back?

Carboxyhemoglobin – a new word? Anyone who has any familiarity with CO poisoning knows this word. Is the prosecurion going to complain every time that they are exposed to a new word????

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 10:37 am

This is absolutely ridiculous. Fowler rocked their case and magically Baker pulls his head out of his butt and suddenly becomes a doctor. They probably just want Tobin, their strongest expert, to have the last word.

    Voyager in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 10:49 am

    It will be interesting to see if the judge allows it, and how the defense wok respond if he does.

    Not being a lawyer, it seems like the sort of thing that should not be allowed, but one never knows.

    fogflyer in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:19 pm

    And they got it!
    That was ridiculous IMHO.
    Nothing important enough for the judge to allow the prosecution to call witnesses again.

Wouldn’t blood gasses in GF’s blood be subject to the lifesaving attempts? Pretty sure he was getting O2 in the ambulance – you’d have to test blood gasses at the scene…

Did Schleicter, or however its spelled, get fired?

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 10:46 am

Didn’t other experts testify to heart size? Does Tobin really need to come back? Cahill just caught him in his BS too. Call a pulmonologist to talk about the heart.

so now Cahill is going to let the state reopen it’s case ??

seems about right with this judge

    lurker9876 in reply to REDACTED. | April 15, 2021 at 11:02 am

    So if the state reopens its case, can Nelson call more witnesses? Maybe he should’ve called a pulmonologist?

Oh please….Blackwell and Tobin are trying to convert a molehill into a Rocky Mountain!!

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 10:52 am

Late disclosure has been par for the course, make the bed you sleep in Cahill.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 10:56 am

This is a mess. I hope he mentions the labs and we get a mistrial.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 10:57 am

Again, they had this information before Fowler testified, state screwed up and this shouldn’t even be a discussion. I would be so frustrated if I was the defense.

    Midfiaudiophile in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 11:25 am

    They even went so far as to ask the BCA investigator “Squad 320 was a Hybrid vehicle, right? And it had a working catalytic converter?”

    They anticipated testimony about exhaust gasses possibly being a concern, the claim that they didn’t is utterly dishonest.

I was wrong, Cahill is not bias

just dumb as a rock

AnAdultInDiapers | April 15, 2021 at 10:59 am

I’m sorry, that just sounded like the state have been permitted to (re)introduce an expert witness to provide evidence that the defence haven’t had a chance to review, examine or provide a response to.

I didn’t think a conviction would be sound anyway, but that’s just another nail in the coffin.

Does the state have to prove that Chauvin’s actions were the primary cause of Floyd’s death? Or, do they just have to demonstrate that Chauvin contributed in some way to Floyd’s death?

Anyone know?

    lurker9876 in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 11:04 am

    Or third question is whether the state is trying to protect Tobin’s credibility? I guess the state called Baker last night and he responded this morning?

      Smooth23 in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 11:06 am

      No, you missed where Nelson said Tobin seemingly had the CO information handy at 4:52 yesterday afternoon

        StandardMurse in reply to Smooth23. | April 15, 2021 at 11:15 am

        My guess is they had the info the whole time. At some point, probably immediately upon arrival to the ED, they drew an arterial blood gas which the genius experts did not put 2 and 2 together until last night that Arterial O2 saturation levels of 98% would mean that CO couldn’t be bonded to blood cells because 98% of O2 sites on the blood cells were all taken up by oxygen. Blackwell muddled the explanation and tried to say they had a direct blood CO measurement, which they most likely did not.

    Smooth23 in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 11:07 am

    They’re going for the emotional plea that it doesn’t matter, white cop bad, black druggie career criminal good.

    Laser Beam in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 11:27 am

    They don’t have to prove a thing. All this time and money are essentially a waste, some of these jurors went in already as a “lock” for “guilty” and that’s that.

      thetaqjr in reply to Laser Beam. | April 15, 2021 at 12:35 pm

      Lots of folks here seem to have your opinion about the close mindedness of the jurors in this case. I’ve asked this before, not receiving a response.

      How do you know the jurors were already predisposed to find Mr Chauvin guilty? If you know that, then you must know which ones, or is that a blanket statement about all the jurors?

      You must have evidence that at least one of the jurors fits the category, Which one? What’s the name, and where did you get the evidence?

      What a sophomore…

        TargaGTS in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 1:14 pm

        There’s no way to know for certain. But, statistics can play some role in informing any opinion. Hennepin County – the country from where jurors were selected – voted more than 70% for Biden. Recent polling indicates a significant statistical difference between how Republicans and Democrats see Chauvin’s guilt…

        …with a remarkable 88% of Democrat respondents saying that Chauvin was guilty before the trial began. So, it’s probably fair to presume there are more Democrats on the jury than republicans – because percentages – and it’s additionally fair to presume that those jury panel Democrats likely saw Chauvin’s guilt similarly to the way the poll respondents did.

        Is it a perfect dataset from which to reach any conclusions on this specific jury? No, but it’s not meaningless either.

          thetaqjr in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 1:58 pm

          I have no doubt that such a statistical calculation can be done, I’ve seen it done. The answer to the jurors’ political bents lies somewhere between the probability that all 15 are measurable right of center and the probability that 15 are measurably left of center.

          Statistics is unable to eliminate either result.

          What I have a hard time abiding … I mean I’m a complete novice in this … is the statements that folks make as if the statements are absolutely correct. I mean the guy was so confident he published a range, 10-12. Why not 8-12? How did he arrive at the numbers?

        healthguyfsu in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 1:21 pm

        Watch voir dire…..people were allowed to remain in the pool unless the defense used a strike even when they had clear history of bias in their social media profiles and other public records.

        “What a freshman…”

          thetaqjr in reply to healthguyfsu. | April 15, 2021 at 1:52 pm

          Many folks are, he’s got good company, surely.

          thetaqjr in reply to healthguyfsu. | April 15, 2021 at 2:08 pm

          Wasn’t that Lawyer Nelson’s job, to filter out those predisposed folks?

          If he didn’t have enough strikes, who could have extended that number? I mean, Judge Cahill didn’t just make up the number, or are you saying he did, and that showed his bias toward the defense?

          If all the improprieties people here claim the judge has exhibited actually exist, and laymen, untutored in law, are so astute as to be acute in the detection of those biases even up to listing them and assigning numbers, then certainly judges on a court of review will detect with no second glance.

          I was gon’ write “dropout”, but I figure we’ve descended enough.

        Multistorey in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 3:06 pm

        I have no reason to believe any juror is biased. I do believe every juror knows what the effect of a Not Guilty verdict will be! I do believe that any juror who doesn’t give a Guilty verdict will be doxxed to the mobs. That is one hell of a burden for justice to be served.

        Multistorey in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 3:47 pm

        You don’t think it strange that State has multiple Prosecutors? Defence has one! State still had to drop evidence the evening before and find evidence evening before knowing defence witness on a plane out whilst state witness conveniently on hand after being briefed last night? Defence attorney is totally knackered, Prosecution fresh and still screwing up. The jurors are innocent. They are just under inhuman pressure knowing that any verdict but guilty will result in America burning, their homes under fire and doxxing?! If you ignore that then you are inhuman. Minneapolis has been under riot control for the last 3 nights. The jurors will have to have hearts of steel to go against the mob, easier to comply. Their families are at risk. We’ve seen Grand Trial jurors doxxing their fellow jurors!

          thetaqjr in reply to Multistorey. | April 15, 2021 at 9:24 pm

          I’ve asked the question twice, how is it that the state has such weak prosecutors that that they are left having to hire competence from private sources. Someone may have answered that question for me, indicating that the local prosecutors were too close to the case to be fair. But that doesn’t sound right.

          I pretty much hate the power government at all levels has assumed and possesses.

          From what I know, I’d vote for acquittal right now.

          But, foaming at the mouth, saying all the jurors are too stupid to do math, that they are politically motivated and have made up their minds, aren’t chemists or mds, that puts the jury system at much risk.

          I’m trying to recall something I read years ago, a statement claiming that being a member of a jury in a jury trial, elevates the common man to a height above kings and princes.

          Neither kings nor princes, nor lawyers nor mds, not judges, not priests can force any juror to do their bidding. At that moment, like all pilots having been given clearance to land at an airport, any damn airport, for that moment they are supreme in their independent judgements.

          They have taken other folks lives into their hands, and if, as individuals, they don’t recognize that power, then what do we do? We’re sunk. Neither Judge Cahill or Atty. Nelson can impress their duty upon them, that sense of duty needed to have come from the crib. It’s jus too late.

          I hope I’m wrong.

Hey, today we get the livestream from SkyNews instead of WaPo. Good upgrade to not have to hear those moaning clowns from the post!

    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to Mike Wilson. | April 15, 2021 at 11:12 am

    I’ve been on the Sky stream since day one. Two days in a Scottish man started providing a recap during the gaps in audio from the court of what was just observed on the stream, but he’s been broadly neutral and hasn’t been drawing inferences from the testimonies.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:06 am

How close of a relationship do defense attorneys have with defendants? Do they each lunch together during trial? I imagine they have to get close right? In this case Chauvin isn’t your standard dirt bag repeat offender so I have to imagine that plays in to it.

    thetaqjr in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    See? The standard for Repeat offenders are dirtbags? How the hell do you know that?

    I don’t want you serving on my jury. You’re predisposed, close minded, just as you’ve claimed the jurors are in this case.


      healthguyfsu in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 1:24 pm

      The normal response to a serious criminal offense in order to be a functioning social member of a civilized society is to deter from that behavior. So, yes, the chance of repeat offenders being of low moral character and integrity is very high.


        thetaqjr in reply to healthguyfsu. | April 15, 2021 at 2:39 pm

        Are all repeat offenders immoral dirtbags, or is the type of offending they’ve done a factor?

        The singles cigarette seller in NYC a few years ago, they killed him for breaking the law.

        Now, in that event, where was the real immorality located, in the deceased’s actions, or in the overwrought law making it a crime to sell single cigarettes?

        It may be stupid to resist arrest, granted, but it’s not immoral, is it? Talking truth to power?

        I wonder.

          healthguyfsu in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 8:47 pm

          You missed “serious criminal offense”

          And that guy died of being an obese smoker and resisting arrest which brought on a heart attack….the “they killed him” destroys your argument as oblivious to objectivity.

          Do you always talk to yourself at the end of your posts? Seems like a quality in an insecure narcissist that needs to reassure himself of his own high intelligence.

          thetaqjr in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 11:30 pm

          Yes, but not always. Sometimes, I talk to myself without posting anything anywhere.

          A fat black man selling cigarettes by the single is a serious criminal offense by deblasio’s definition.

          His serious criminal offense was selling a product other folks were willing to pay for, voluntarily, mind you, right in the face of the monopoly cigarette shop selling 19-packs for $10 a pack?

          If NYC settled, I don’t know, what would that rate have been, $100,000 a cigarette? They should have just bought the fat man off.

          I wander when I wonder. I wish more folks did.

          Don’t you ever wonder if you’re bases are solid? I do, mine and yours. Solid bases.

      StandardMurse in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 1:35 pm

      Did you just call yourself a repeat offender dirtbag?

Cahill continues to remain spineless, allowing Tobin to testify on a limited basis on rebuttal. He let the state introduce new evidence all trial long and now today his spinelessnes finally caught up to him. He could have shut the state down in pretrial or first time the state did it.

I know it’s insignificant, but you can hear the vehicle running here. It shuts off at 7:22.

Shifty Bitwise | April 15, 2021 at 11:11 am

Do I have this right ? State had CO evidence and they scoffed. They KNEW Defense would possible introduce and they scoffed.

Defense has expert yak about CO etc and it throws yet another large causality monkey wrench in their case.

State freaks out. Spends all morning trying to either toss CO testimony or bring their own ‘expert’ back to rebut. Take so long they miss their deadline.

State then rests ? WTF ?

    AnAdultInDiapers in reply to Shifty Bitwise. | April 15, 2021 at 11:15 am

    I think that was meant to be that the Defence rests, rather than state. The state are not resting before they bring Tobin back.

    Smooth23 in reply to Shifty Bitwise. | April 15, 2021 at 11:15 am

    I think there was a misstype in the blog, state hasn’t rested. They’re back in at 10:15, so expect it to be closer to 11. Keep in mind this is central time.

I have said it many times here, that autopsy was incomplete and Baker had an agenda and found a way to support it. I would have to believe he was under a lot of pressure to come up with the results he posted.

    thetaqjr in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 1:11 pm

    I believe “agenda” derives from the Latin verb “agere”, meaning “to do.” I bet you have an agenda.

    What was Dr Baker’s agenda? Yes, he probably uses some sort of check list to ensure his work is as complete, as thorough as possible. Is that check list a your idea of an agenda?

    He had certain tests he had “to do”, but

    I keep an agenda on my weekly calendar. That fact doesn’t prove I have bad intentions, listing some item intended to subvert the law,

    There’s way too much name calling here. It detracts from the effort to try and make sense of the point folks are trying to make.

    It’s bad debate technique. You get an F.

      healthguyfsu in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 1:30 pm

      You’ve used perjoratives and name calling throughout. Pot meet kettle.

      As for wordsmithing agenda…congratulations on finding the dictionary. Still doesn’t rebut the notion that there were plenty of political pressures handed down on this case from the left side of the aisle. You can deny it if you want to, but you aren’t exactly a master of debate, so it will be a transparent ploy (now go tell us what ploy means).

        thetaqjr in reply to healthguyfsu. | April 15, 2021 at 2:31 pm

        I don’t claim I’m a master of debate, but I don’t need such designation to know AD HOMINEM characterize, not the argument, but the arguer.

        I’m an ignorant laymen, and I admit to that. My Chinese folks say I’m ignorant, but at least I know it, which is a plus.

        Those who know mot, and know not they know not” … how do we identify those folks?

        I didn’t realize I’d been “using pejoratives throughout.” I think I referred to someone as a sophomore. Maybe a sophomore wouldn’t refer to sets of folks as “dirtbags.” I apologize.

          healthguyfsu in reply to thetaqjr. | April 15, 2021 at 8:50 pm

          So your defense of your own offense is that your ad hominem attack are weaker than others? Good one.

        thetaqjr in reply to healthguyfsu. | April 16, 2021 at 12:11 am

        I didn’t have to look that up. That agere thing, it’s solidly in my quiver. I can conjugate it from memory. Can’t speak it, but I can conjugate it.

      Baker said himself that his ruling changed after meeting with his boss, and seeing the video.

      It doesn’t take a genius to see that pressure was applied.

      There was nothing in that video that should have impacted what was found at autopsy, so he was using guesswork as to how much force was applied in lieu of actual science that he did in his own lab to determine the cause of death. That is just foolishness, and as an engineer, I am appalled at how shoddy all of this is. None of it would pass muster in my field. It is a whole lot of guesswork.

        thetaqjr in reply to Thatch. | April 15, 2021 at 2:48 pm

        I asked the following yesterday: is there a way to determine mathematically, within accepted tolerances, the varying amount of force as it was distributed to Mr.Floyd’s upper torso over the 9 minutes?

Maybe Nelson could provoke Tobin into mentioning the CO lab results? haha. A mistrial is better than a conviction and could learn from mistakes for re-trial.

Does seem ridiculous to let Tobin talk about the enlarged heart. The State has had plenty of opportunity to address this topic over multiple witnesses.

Agree that State is just trying to get its most credentialed and supposedly effective witness up in front of jury again and have the last word. The State is relentless.

So what happens if Tobin does cause a mistrial?

Does it get dismissed with prejudice, or does the State get another bite at the apple?

If the State get another bite, then something like this would probably be worth it; worst case they just run the defense out of money, and they have to plead to a charge.

    Smooth23 in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 11:18 am

    They would get another chance. I don’t suspect Cahill would actually declare a mistrial. He would come up with some bullshit about why whatever said was allowed.

Is the state trying to explain that by putting Floyd under a running car with the exhaust fumes caused his death? Therefore, it’s manslaughter?

    tnicky in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 11:32 am

    Really hope the jury sees that as the reach that it is. Cuz its a reach.

    thad_the_man in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 11:45 am

    That can’t be manslaughter. They would have to have introduced evidence that nmot placing a suspect near the tailpipe is in the manuals, and that Chauvin received instructions about it.

worth noting nelson doesn’t even have his laptop on

This is outrageous!! The state screwed up . The fact that eminent doctors are arguing the case, does not give further proof that it was wrong for the death certicate part 1 to be worded as it was?
I can only think the judge is under a lot of political pressure to arrive at a verdict that appeases the mob..
Still looks like a lynching as we see in all the old Western films. A less than satisfactory prosecution , a judge and jury frightened of the baying mob and being led on by radicals who will gain either way.

    tnicky in reply to dden65. | April 15, 2021 at 11:29 am

    It boggles the mind that they are so unprepared and messy when they’ve had MONTHS to prepare for what is arguably one of the most prolific criminal trials of our time.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:21 am

What the hell does he have in his satchels?

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:24 am

There is the mistrial, told you the instructions were not clear enough.

Id say a mistrail at this point should be prudent. Even if the new CO report isn’t brought up formally, you KNOW these jurors are going home and watching the news coverage of this show trial.

You know what? I’m not a juror…but honestly, the state pulling Tobin back again would make me feel they are trying to get blood from a turnip. It just feels like “insistence”. I can only speak for myself but it would really feel like beating a dead horse because it really seems like if they wanna convict Chauvin they should have come with some hardhitting evidence (as well as a clearly stated cause of death caused by Chauvin)….I really wish I could know what the jurors are thinking. I dont think I’d be voting to ruin a man’s life after the state appeared to attempt to get blood from a turnip. I mean, how many ways does the state have to try to push a very oblique point? We get it. Insistence indicates that they know its weak.

    healthguyfsu in reply to tnicky. | April 15, 2021 at 1:27 pm

    Political persuasions are probably going to play a major role. All other obvious associations with the politicization of this trial aside, leftists are more likely to adhere to pound the table, emotional arguments and pretend that pseudoscience is real, hard science. Righties are more likely to be skeptical of science or pseudoscience because of the pervasive nature of the latter in cultural circles and follow objective facts over feels and theater.

Is it possible the State isn’t confident the jury is on their side and might attempt to provoke a mistrial on purpose?

He just brought up carboxyhemoglobin again.. which is the basis of the ‘new’ results…

Isn’t the state claiming that Floyd wasn’t able to breathe? That he wasn’t able to get enough oxygen. Now he’s oxygen level is normal??

    Multistorey in reply to kak185ttx. | April 15, 2021 at 3:12 pm

    I wondered the same. If he was hypoxic then his O2 levels would be low and now they say it was normal. Takes time to make Carboxyhaemoglobin too. I’d welcome an explanation.

OMG. Tobin just opened himself exposed. Watching Fowler yesterday, I expect his response would be to Tobin…of course my panel and I know all that and what was the point?

The Packetman | April 15, 2021 at 11:30 am

Horrible math skills … Fowler said the concentration of CO could increase 7-18% … that’s not the same as saying the CO concentration could be 7-18%.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:31 am

So he mentions the labs, and they try and put the cat back in the bag, total BS. Nelson should have let him keep going and objected after he finished his thought.

Didn’t Fowler say the carboxyhemoglobin level in GF could have risen *by* 10-18%? Not *to* 10-18%… If normal is 3 (in non-smokers which GF wasn’t) then what Fowler said is that GF’s level would go up to 3.3 or 3.6…

Also ridiculous that the defense doesn’t have time to consult their expert after hearing this new BS line of “oh its just in physiology, nobody would ever bother writing about it!’

    CCChair in reply to Smooth23. | April 15, 2021 at 11:51 am

    Also, Tobin’s explanation was basically the sort of thing experts are not supposed to be used for. They are supposed to assist the trier of fact in understanding the issues. They are not supposed to opine about things the jury can acertain for themselves—for instance, science-free explanations like “touch your neck and assume that somehow proves what I’ve asserted but have no literature to support.”

Useless rebut. The state messed up.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:34 am

He mentions the arterial blood gas, objected and then told not to talk about it, then magically pulls a number of 98% out of “thin air” as if you can’t put 2 and 2 together.

I’m on tender hooks watching the feed. What’s going to happen next?

    lurker9876 in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 11:38 am

    This rebut isn’t giving Nelson any time to do a good cross and Dr. Fowler is flying home. Tobin got into the areas unauthorized by Cahill as well. Just a little bit.

got down voted for saying the judge was trying to screw Chauvin

your apologies are accepted

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:40 am

The previous late disclosures of the state have to come in to play here. They did it not once, not twice, but three times, and that is assuming we have seen every time it has happened.

Aren’t they conflating a 10-18% rise in levels with the 98.5% of oxygen? Fowler didn’t say the CO2 level would have been 18%, he just said it would have been higher than it had been.

seems like the state is trying to get a mistrail

If today is the end, thank you Mr. Branca. I wish I would have followed you during the Zimmerman trial. Your continued coverage has been great and I’ve been following it throughout my work days for the past 3 weeks.

    That’s very kind of you! We’ll have an end-of-day post up shortly, then we’ll have a pending VERDICT WATCH post up during deliberations, until the verdict is announced.

    It’s possible that Professor Jacobson may be considering some kind of post-trial webinar kind of panel discussion thing, too, and if so I’ll likely participate in that–but whether that occurs is above my pay grade.

      thetaqjr in reply to Andrew Branca. | April 15, 2021 at 2:56 pm

      Mr. Branca, do you perceive an inordinate amount of bias in the way Judge Cahill has conducted this trial, bias of the kind that would overturn a guilty? Is a judge Cahill incompetent, in your opinion?

      A few posters here seem to challenge the judge’s impartiality and competence.

      Are you allowed to respond to this type of question?

sorry, mistrial

Question- If Floyd received external O2 during attempts to resuscitate him, could that have offset any Carbon Monoxide saturation that occurred earlier?

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 11:43 am

You cannot tell me that in the back or even front of Cahill’s mind that if he grants a mistrial the city/country will burn.

oppressivemath | April 15, 2021 at 11:43 am

What is going on here? What’s the likelihood of mistrial?

And as far as the searches yielding nothing for Fowler vs Tobin…exactly what was Fowler looking for and how does that differ from Tobin’s claims that he could find a lot of studies?

And what is the relevance of this rebut that’s turning into a fight between Tobin and Fowler to this case?

Blackwell did not ask questions regarding the environment conditions as allowed by Cahill. Gee…wonder why.


    Midfiaudiophile in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    I’m doing a search on pubmed presently, not finding anything relevant, even on “lung volume hypopharynx”, exactly no results on “EELV hypopharynx”

      Mike Wilson in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | April 15, 2021 at 12:03 pm

      he was lying out of his ass when he said that.

        lurker9876 in reply to Mike Wilson. | April 15, 2021 at 12:11 pm

        Well, let’s hope the jury figures that out but Tobin said that he referred to several articles in his January 27th report. I do have to wonder exactly what their search criteria was.

        thetaqjr in reply to Mike Wilson. | April 15, 2021 at 1:27 pm

        Either you are “lying out of your ass,” or you are mistaken.

        Is that a good way to describe your actions in making business reports and the like for others to review?

        “Hey, you know old Mike, how he is, you can rest assured that he’s lying out of his ass.”

      With more time to adequately prepare, Nelson could have made Tobin do a search before the jury knowing he wouldn’t find anything. Unfortunately thanks to Cahill allowing the state to hide the results of CO findings, the defense’s case is deliberately hampered yet again.

        Multistorey in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 3:16 pm

        Always struck me as grossly unfair that State have several prosecutors, Defence has one! Prosecutors still did the dirty with the multiple last-minute disclosures that one man had to deal with after a hectic day in court!

    StandardMurse in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    I feel like the EELV evidence is just a distraction or something akin to the DNA evidence in the OJ Simpson trial. Oh you don’t understand EELV? Listen to our expert, it is science, it is able to tell you all you ever wanted to know. Then the defense spends time trying to dispute quack evidence that basically results in the same thing everyone else said, which was at some point GF stopped breathing… Gee thanks.

Let’s hope this ends in a mistrial. Tobin very clearly hinted at the lab results. If the judge is honest, he will call a mistrial.

    TargaGTS in reply to oogabooga. | April 15, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    I have long believed that if the prosecution’s actions result in a mistrial, particularly after they’ve rested their case-in-chief, then double-jeopardy should attach. There’s too much incentive – a kind of moral hazard, if you will – for the prosecution to do something worthy of mistrial just to get the ‘do-over’ if there’s no chance that the defendant can’t be retried. Irresponsible, reckless behavior by the state is all upside for them if they think the trial isn’t going the way it should be going.

    Unfortunately, that’s almost never the way it works.

This is nuts. Is the reason Nelson rested is that he’s so confident that he’s going to get a mistrial here?

I would have expected he needed a better use of force expert, and at least a few more medial experts to show just how much of a quack Tobin is…

    I think Fowler was so good and damaging to the prosecution that Nelson knows it won’t get any better for his case. Hit the home run and go home. But … we’ll see. All bets are off in the “New America”.

    Y’all stay safe.

    Rocinante123 in reply to NOTIMPORTANT. | April 15, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    Maybe he’s liking the look of the jury

    wrpeterson in reply to NOTIMPORTANT. | April 15, 2021 at 12:49 pm

    He rested because he got the state’s star witness to testify that GF’s O2 sats were 98% – directly impeaching his own testimony re: hypoxia. If GGF’s O2 sats were 98%, something else must’ve killed him (drugs, heart attack, etc.). Closing arguments are going to be fun…

That was a poor cross by Nelson. I wish he would have nailed Tobin on his misinterpretation of what Fowler said regarding CO levels. He should have also asked Tobin where he pulled the numbers from.

    NOTIMPORTANT in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    The fact that it was bad is why this should be a mistrial. He had all of 5 minutes to come up a defense to P’s dirty tactics. That’s insane.

      Agreed. Nelson couldn’t even mention how Tobin came up with his 98% number so effectively Cahill did allow the lab results as the jury can rightfully conclude the number Tobin used must be true and accurate.

        wrpeterson in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 12:51 pm

        98% O2 sat blows Tobin’s hypoxia testimony out of the water!! GF couldn’t be hypoxic with those sats…

          Rocinante123 in reply to wrpeterson. | April 15, 2021 at 1:01 pm

          I think you’re confused. Of course he was hypoxic. He stopped breathing and died. Everyone becomes hypoxic upon death. The difference here is whether it was caused by asphyxiation or whether it was caused by a cardiac arrhythmia. Baker, Tobin, Fowler, Thomas, Rich, everyone testified that Floyd ultimately became hypoxic. The difference of opinion (Baker & Fowler) vs Tobin, Rich, Thomas is whether it was caused by an overworked heart failing or whether it was by asphyxiation from the restraint.

          lurker9876 in reply to wrpeterson. | April 15, 2021 at 1:24 pm

          Which the state was unable to prove beyond reasonable doubt, even with Tobin. Tobin has really muddled the waters even more, IMHO.

          My guess is that Tobin was looking for one thing while Fowler was looking for something else.

          Sure wished that Nelson called a pulmonologist to challenge Tobin’s quackery analysis.

          wrpeterson in reply to wrpeterson. | April 15, 2021 at 1:25 pm

          Wasn’t the state’s case that DC caused GF hypoxia w/knee on neck? DC’s defense was that GF could have died from other causes. If O2 sats at hospital were 98%, no hypoxia. A heart attack would explain high O2 sats and death – blood had plenty of O2, but couldn’t get to brain as heart had stopped.

          lurker9876 in reply to wrpeterson. | April 15, 2021 at 2:01 pm

          Which may be why the state hid this CO report because it contradicts their argument.

          Sounds like exculpatory evidence was deliberately hidden.

Anyone notice the smug look on prosecutions face when he said that was the close of prosecution evidence?

So what is Tobin saying? That cops like Chuavin shouldn’t be able to rely on their police training? Instead, they should sit at home every night (or in some med school library) reading physiology journals reporting about studies that say that sometimes putting pressure on a person’s back can narrow their hypopharynx? This is ludicrous. Cops are not doctors, and can’t be expected to know about every study in every medical journal. Cops have to rely on their training and they have to be able to restrain unruly suspects.
And it is inevitable that occasionally some of those restrained suspects are going to be unusually vulnerable because they have serious underlying conditions and they are going to die, and that’s too bad, but it is not the cop’s fault.

So follow up question, if mistrial doesn’t happen and he is convicted on this, on appeal would a remedy be to overturn conviction or just have a new trial?

With all the suspicious allowances the judge as made to favor the state beginning with denying moving the trial location it wouldn’t surprise me they just want a conviction now knowing it will likely be successfully appealed months or even years from now. Chauvin is the state’s sacrificial goat to stop rioting, the destruction of Minneapolis homes and businesses and murder.

    PGiddy in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 12:46 pm

    But if Chauvin is convicted, along with the Brooklyn Center fiasco, you can kiss policing goodbye. Who wants be a cop under these circumstances? You’ve seen what America looks like WITH police; what’s it going to look like WITHOUT police?

      JohnT in reply to PGiddy. | April 15, 2021 at 1:06 pm

      It has already happened. The defund police narrative has been successfully implemented in several cities. Police have been persecuted in this country for years now and it has hurt recruitment. Convicting Chauvin in the short term may prevent several cities being burned and looted even though months or years from now the case may (should) be overturned on appeal.

        Voyager in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 1:40 pm

        I doubt it would take convicting him. Even if he is acquitted, I would strongly recommend against anyone I know going into the police force at this point.

        It’s a lose-lose situation all around.

        gonzotx in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 2:03 pm

        It won’t prevent nothing

        Char Char Binks in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 2:28 pm

        Seriously, I’d take the job, draw a paycheck, then do virtually nothing. It’s not my fault they effectively made the majority of police work illegal.

      katesully in reply to PGiddy. | April 16, 2021 at 11:05 am

      We’ll end up with the BLM “community police” running around with baseball bats like they did at Evergreen State College. Don’t these idiots realize that whether you’re FBI,State Police, Local Police or just a community group most bad guys aren’t going to have any qualms fighting and in some cases shooting you, because shockingly criminals don’t care about other people’s lives (especially cops) and they don’t want to go to jail. I’m shocked that these idiots go on and on about defending and even ABOLISHING police. It’s so completely insane. I feel like the left has lost it’s mind! As Chris Rock said if you don’t want to get your ass kicked by the cops stop breaking the law and then resisting arrest! It’s not rocket science!

now the judge will have all weekend to think about how to screw Chauvin over some more.

I understand that the last thing Cahill wanted was a mistrial, but he opened the door in his first ruling then stepped in and bailed out the state and prevented Tobin from answering the questioning completely.
He warned the state, I would have expected that the state warned Tobin and yet he still stepped out onto the thin ice.

    JohnT in reply to buck61. | April 15, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    Yes and he prevented Nelson from asking Tobin how he came up with his so exact numbers. Effectively Cahill did allow the lab results in a very nefarious manner through Tobin’s unchallenged testimony. Moreover, the fact the state hid the lab results thus letting the defense speculate about the CO before the jury only to have the results suddenly appear to make the defense look bad and incompetent is outrageous. The judge is corrupt.

      Multistorey in reply to JohnT. | April 15, 2021 at 2:58 pm

      Cahill didn’t want to be the Judge who set America on fire! Should have chosen a Judge with Balls of Steel. He’s too scared of the mob, in my opinion. America is going up in flames even if they get the conviction that racial politics demand and once again when the conviction is over-turned on appeal! All fair-minded people knew this trial should have been held well out of state and with the strongest Judge. The current Minneapolis riots are intimidating the jurors who know anything less than a guilty verdict will make Minneapolis burn hotter than Hell and they don’t want to be doxxed and their lives ruined forever.

I don’t get Tobin’s response:

Nelson: Reference 12-20 studies, increase in pressure on lungs would increase narrowing of hypopharynx.

Not quite right. Decrease size of lungs, narrowing hypopharynx.

Imagine you have a soft rubber ball in your hand and you apply pressure to it, doesn’t the ball get “smaller” and squeezed out at the end?

So is Tobin trying to say that Chauvin’s weight applied pressure to GF’s lungs narrowed GF’s hypopharynx?

Which Fowler said Chauvin’s weight had no impact to GF at all.

I thought the lungs or heart were filled with fluids?

Ya think the state realized it screwed up with the rebut?

Brian Valentine | April 15, 2021 at 12:07 pm

Chauvin’s going to jail…
question is on what charge

Given that the 98% blood oxygen results completely invalidates the Prosecution’s theory of death, is the defense able to raise that in the closing arguments, or has State successfully hidden exculpatory evidence?

    StandardMurse in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    They had the blood gas the whole time, the results of an arterial blood gas would have been one of the key labs drawn upon arrival to the hospital, so it wouldn’t have been hidden at the bottom of a page somewhere…The blood O2 saturation would have been one of about 4 or 5 things they were looking for in a blood gas. What they didn’t think of was that the blood gas could potentially be used to impeach Fowler’s testimony until last night when Baker had an aha! moment. Should have never been allowed because they knew it was going to be introduced all along, they just didn’t mount a good defense to the CO debate until the expert destroyed them and they needed something to save face.

      Voyager in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 12:50 pm

      Do we know it was previously provided to the defense? Based on the evidence discussion, it strongly appears that those test results were only presentered to the defense this morning.

      dji9424 in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:00 pm

      Absolutely, but they may have even done more damage to their case by offering Tobin’s rebuttal testimony. There’s no question that Tobin did exactly what the Judge had instructed Blackwell not to do, he forewarned them of a mistrial, but caved when it happened.

      However, when they got their 98% O2 level on the record, what does that do to their claim of COD being Positional Asphyxia? It would seem to me that at 98% saturation, their claim of asphyxia is precluded. I’m no medical expert, but the idea that the Lucas device and the administration of 100% O2 in the ambulance could have raised GF’s O2 level from a level of asphyxia to 98% is not plausible.

      Smooth23 in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:38 pm

      But the ER doctor specifically said they did NOT take an ABG sample but a VBG. I’m STILL trying to figure out where this ABG came from.

    StandardMurse in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 12:36 pm

    It doesn’t necessarily invalidate the theory of death. With proper oxygenation through a bag valve mask, and the fact that they were using a lucas machine I can imagine a scenario where blood gas O2 saturations were at 98%. I have literally seen people in full cardiac arrest that wake up when the lucas machine starts pumping and when it stops for a pulse check go back under. 98% does seem a little high however.

      Voyager in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 12:46 pm

      Yes, but you’re talking someone who is in cardiac arrest.

      The State has been arguing from the get go that Chauvin restricted Flyod’s breathing. If they’ve got test results that show he was at 98% after death, that could not have been happening.

      The only way you get that is if blood is getting oxygenated, but not getting to the brain. I.e. blood flow restriction, not lung restriction.

        StandardMurse in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 1:06 pm

        Pumping the chest in a very efficient manner with a Lucas Machine and Placement of a advanced airway by the Paramedics with proper use of a BVM (bag valve mask) set at an supplemental O2 level of 15 lpm takes care of your circulation and your breathing. The problem becomes when you stop doing all the stuff for him does he have a pulse and is he breathing? If the answer is no then he is dead. You really just need him to have a pulse on his own because you can breath for a person by using a ventilator. In terms of O2 getting to the brain, that determines whether or not you ever wake up and can also have some bearing on whether or not you ever breathe on your own again. It is possible he was starved for O2 from the time he passed out to the time that he was in the Paramedic rig and everything was properly in place. In my mind the question becomes what caused him to be starved of that O2. I am personally leaning heart attack and I don’t think the drugs helped. I don’t think there is much of an actual chance the Chauvin in some way occluded an airway, but the continued struggle didn’t help the situation. Despite what the experts said, had Chauvin not kneeled on his neck and they had just laid in him the recovery position I still don’t think GF survives the night, but that is just me.

          Voyager in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:22 pm

          Ok, so I may be not understanding when the blood oxygen levels were taken. We’re they taken only after external ventilation and external oxygen were applied, or did they have readings when the paramedics first got to him?

          My personal experience with it is of a slightly different side of things.

          It’s always one of those glorious red flags when one finds oneself thinking “this breathing this is so hard. Why am I doing this again?” 🙂

          StandardMurse in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:31 pm

          Voyager, it won’t let me reply to a reply apparently, but yes Tobin stated the 98% was the result from the ABG obtained at Hennepin County Medical Center (HCMC) which would have been the hospital ED. I agree 98% seems high but we know from the ambulance ride that at no point did he have a viable pulse so he would to have to have been in cardiac arrest at some point prior to the drawing of the ABG. The numbers are what they are so In my mind then, the only thing to account for such a high O2 in an ABG is proper profusion from a Lucas and proper oxygenation from the advanced airway.

          Voyager in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:44 pm

          Ok thank you. That clears that up. That also helps explain why the defense did not use that if they had it earlier.

          Would have been nice if they had measurements from the ambulance at the scene.

          Multistorey in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 3:33 pm

          Good point. So, he died with no hypoxia. A Dr diagnoses hypoxia from video footage taken with a potato rather than a pulse-oximeter or blood gases/test at the time. Of course, the evidence of fighting for 10 minutes ( I’d be panting and exhausted after 2 minutes), 90 % occlusive CA ( find one Dr that suggests vigorous physical activity with that level of occlusion!) BP 220/180+ ( Jeez!, you’re just waiting to pop and find any Dr that suggest 10 minutes of vigorous activity with that level of BP?! Sitting down is dangerous enough). Find one Dr that would recommend 10 minutes vigorous activity with massive heart disease,, almost impossibly high BP and a lethal level of street fentanyl/methamphetamine! Oh, did we mention the cancer that causes > adrenaline? No Dr mentioned that > adrenaline actually reduces the occlusion rate by closing down the arteries even more … do I need to go on?

          thetaqjr in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 11:08 pm


          Please consider clarifying your thought by breaking them into bite sized pieces.

    Dathurtz in reply to Voyager. | April 15, 2021 at 12:50 pm

    This is my question as well. If low oxygenation was the cause of death, then how in the world was his O2 at 98% saturation? Doesn’t that arterial saturation need to get down in the range of 80% before you get organ failure?

    One of you doctor fellas help me understand how this works. I know just enough to be confidently wrong and not enough to know if I am right.

      StandardMurse in reply to Dathurtz. | April 15, 2021 at 1:07 pm

      Please see post directly above, I am only a nurse fella but this is how it works out in my head and based on what I know and what I have experienced.

        Bartlett in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:26 pm

        As a doctor (but one who primarily takes care of living patients, not dead ones), the intra-resuscitation oxygen saturation is useless if you want to know what caused the cardiac arrest. Or, more precisely, it’s useless if it’s good. If it’s persistently bad despite proper compression and ventilation you may be able to infer another cause (physical disruption of the circulation, for example) that would tell you something. As it was, all you can tell is that once paramedics placed the airway and established proper resuscitation, they got his O2 sat back up to something good. Whatever killed him happened earlier.

          StandardMurse in reply to Bartlett. | April 15, 2021 at 1:53 pm

          The blood gas in this case would technically be valuable in settling the CO argument though correct? To my understanding, and in my experience, it takes hours for someone’s CO levels in the blood to drop. Wouldn’t the fact that the O2 in the ABG was able to get to 98% mean that the O2 was not competing with CO? I did a quick search but couldn’t figure out if CO would effect ABG O2 saturations in that CO is enough like O2 that it may artificial raise the saturations. Do you have any thoughts on this?

          wrpeterson in reply to Bartlett. | April 15, 2021 at 2:07 pm

          Last thing the jury heard in the case was that GF O2 sats were 98%… No context or testimony as to why. The state can’t bring in new evidence during close. Tobin impeached his entire hypoxia testimony this morning and the state can’t do anything about it… Nelson just needs to bang this drum during *his* close…

          Bartlett in reply to Bartlett. | April 15, 2021 at 2:42 pm

          That’s actually a complicated question and would require identifying the particular instrument used and the technology involved, Oxyhemoglobin, deoxyhemoglobin, methemoglobin and carboxyhemoglobin are all somewhat different colors, allowing a sensitive instrument to directly measure the difference between oxy and deoxy (the “measured” abg O2 sat), which wouldn’t measure carboxyhemoglobin at all. So you could have 98% saturation and 12% carbocyhemoglobin at the same time. “Calculated” saturation works from the partial pressure of O2 (SPO2) and the pH, based on normal biochemistry. That would normally show an unexpectedly low O2 saturation in the case of CO poisoning, but that can be compromised in a number of ways. Peripheral pulse oximetry can be confused by carboxyhemoglobin into artificially high OR low saturations, depending on the probe.

          If CO was directly measured and found to be low, that would indicate that CO poisoning wasn’t a factor. Otherwise, you can’t infer much from an ABG O2 saturation.

          StandardMurse in reply to Bartlett. | April 15, 2021 at 5:50 pm

          Thank you Dr(?) Bartlett for your insight on the ABG and the CO. I always appreciate a good explanation from an MD.

        thetaqjr in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 3:03 pm

        Do you agree with Dr. Bartlett’s assessment of the complicated nature of the medical situation George Floyd’s condition represented?

So – I must have missed the person testifying to the over 3 times the amount of drugs that could kill a person testimony. Where was that? To me, that is the FOR SURE reasonable doubt. But I don’t see where it was focused on in the trial. I remember a photo of 3 vials with the amount of drugs – but then, it was taken down quickly. Thanks for your help.

Sky News video banner – George Floyd Killing: The Trail. Guess we know where they stand.

    TargaGTS in reply to BillD. | April 15, 2021 at 12:37 pm

    I can’t remember any previous trial in my adult life when the media had collectively abandoned the use of the word ‘alleged.’

    REDACTED in reply to BillD. | April 15, 2021 at 12:37 pm

    George Floyd’s suicide began the day he realized he wasn’t going to be a sports star

    it’s an old story and far too common in today’s society

    but by all means, let’s blame it on someone other than George

      Char Char Binks in reply to REDACTED. | April 15, 2021 at 2:41 pm

      He went from shootin’ hoops to hoopin’ it up.

      thetaqjr in reply to REDACTED. | April 16, 2021 at 12:00 am

      I see that you believe as I do, that George is a tragic figure. I don’t think that the wold is a better place with his passing. I know you don’t think that it is.

      Are goat songs appropriate for tragedies or for comedies? I can’t seem to remember.

“Finding” this new evidence and bringing Tobin back to testify after Fowler was already on a plane is obviously a set up by the prosecution. This was planned from go. The only question was what the reasoning would be.

    StandardMurse in reply to Grey_Man. | April 15, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Blackwell offered to drive Fowler to the airport.

    JohnT in reply to Grey_Man. | April 15, 2021 at 12:55 pm

    It seems that way. The state hid evidence they knew was pertinent to the case because they saw in Fowler’s report way back in February the defense was going to bring up CO, They deliberately failed to provide the results while under subpoena to do so. Then after Fowler testifies the results suddenly appear and Cahill effectively allows them in via Tobin’s testimony Nelson wasn’t allowed to challenge. It seems Cahill is doing all he can to convict Chauvin knowing the case will likely be successfully appealed months or even years from now. In the meantime convicting Chauvin prevents B.urning L.ooting M.urder from happening.

My take is that Nelson *thinks* he’s going to win. Now thinks he will and winning are two different things, but here’s why.

The stupidity of the prosecution recalling Tobin with a mistrial a breath away gave Nelson the perfect opportunity to get that mistrial if he thought he needed it. And Tobin FELL INTO IT and was answering exactly what would have brought the mistrial. But Nelson objected, preventing him from completing the answer.

If Nelson thought he and Chauvin were headed for a loss, I think he would have let the narcissist finish his answer. Based on his very clear instructions just 2o minutes prior, Cahill would have absolutely had to declare mistrial as he said he would.

So Nelson is confident enough to go to jury. That says quite a bit to me.

    StandardMurse in reply to Mike Wilson. | April 15, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    I think Nelson knows there is no winning during the initial trial. He let him finish the answer enough to get it in to the record and have a case for appeal. I think Tobin finished the answer enough whereby if you combine the mentioning of the blood gas and the magical number 98 that appears upon rephrasing, anyone can put the two together, and at the point you have a mistrial. I didn’t even hear Cahill say to strike the mention of the blood gas from the record so essentially isn’t that headed back with the jury? Nelson has fought but lost so many relevant battles without results, and personally I think today’s was the most blatant. Trial should have never been held in Minneapolis, Jury selection was a mess, there may not have been a case for sequestration initially, but after the Daunte Wright incident I think it may have been warranted, late disclosures on 3 different occasions (that we know of), to include todays, and lastly the mentioning of the laboratory test despite instructions not to, and attempting to cover it up simply by letting it be rephrased. I think Cahill knows there is plenty of grounds for appeal as well and is more than happy to kick the can down the road. Maybe he thinks they are going to win too, but I think he realizes there is only so much he can do.

      David Ked in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 2:10 pm

      Sorry but this is not how it works in MN. Nelson would have to motion for a mistrial and the judge would have the option to issue, deny, or issue a curative instruction. You can’t fail to object, roll the dice, and then seek a mistrial if you lose.

      Although that is not absolute. For example. Judge Guthmann allowed a mistrial in Kedrowski v. Lycoming for alleged plaintiff attorney misconduct even when Lycoming’s attorneys failed to object during trial.

        StandardMurse in reply to David Ked. | April 15, 2021 at 2:19 pm

        I think he objected, asked for a mistrial, and Cahill said no. I was saying that he has argued many of these points so much that all he could do was object and ask for a mistrial but wasn’t going to lose sleep over it knowing it wasn’t going to happen and that he has grounds for appeal later on.

    Multistorey in reply to Mike Wilson. | April 15, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    Political expediency, juror fear and Judge who doesn’t want to preside over America burning will ensure a guilty verdict almost certainly. Happy to hold my hands up if I’m wrong. US burns anyway! Guilty! Proves cops are racists, burn it down. Innocent! Proves cops are racist burn it down. Hung verdict – White supremacy, burn it down! Race politics is so simple. Burn it down!

Forgive me if I missed something but Derek Chauvin is likely to spend the remainder of his life regretting his defense only put on a couple of witnesses, didn’t flood things with doctors testifying about the effect of fentanyl and only called a couple of defense witnesses. I haven’t followed it along the most closely but just a couple of days worth of defense testimony doesn’t seem equal to nearly two weeks of prosecution testimony.

    JohnT in reply to Danny. | April 15, 2021 at 12:44 pm

    Get real, do you think he is a millionaire?

    REDACTED in reply to Danny. | April 15, 2021 at 12:45 pm

    lookee, we have a Popov aficionado

    StandardMurse in reply to Danny. | April 15, 2021 at 12:51 pm

    The police union picked up the tab for his defense I believe.

    David Ked in reply to Danny. | April 15, 2021 at 1:30 pm

    You run a massive risk with that. You have all these competing experts and the jury gets confused and they just fall back on – Chauvin kneeling on neck. The video is a terrible optic and massive liability for defense. Regardless if that is fair or not.

      thetaqjr in reply to David Ked. | April 15, 2021 at 1:43 pm

      How can a trial, any trial, be labeled “fair” in cases where there exists such a disparity of resources separating State’s against those of the defense?

      If I recall correctly, didn’t the state hire outside, private attorneys to do the work of the prosecution in the courtroom? If that’s true, what can we infer about the competence of Minnesota’s state attorneys?

      If that’s true, the farming out of the work, is it unusual?

        henrybowman in reply to thetaqjr. | April 16, 2021 at 4:30 pm

        So then, pretty much any trial. Because the defendant is forced to pay out of his own and his friends’ wealth, while the state can raid entire tax coffers to put him down.

If the state had been allowed to bring in new lab tests, would the defense have been allowed to force testing the stomach contents?

I can’t believe the state is willing to make themselves appear this desperate + to hand Nelson more appeal material on a silver platter.

    rthib in reply to JaneDoh. | April 15, 2021 at 1:01 pm

    I don’t think the state cares about appeals. There mandate is to quite the crowds who are demanding blood. If he wins on appeal then it is be those judges fault and they can claim they did everything and the “system” let him free.
    Seems like a smart move since yesterday was so bad.
    Again., they don’t care the long term, they and it appears the judge, just want this to be over with a guilty verdict so that the people can riot about something else.

      Midfiaudiophile in reply to rthib. | April 15, 2021 at 1:09 pm

      Reminder: The Minnesota AG is Keith Ellison, who likely has grander political ambitions than being Minnesota’s Attorney General. Improper action to the point that it caused a reversal on a highly-publicized case like this might adversely impact his political horizons.

        REDACTED in reply to Midfiaudiophile. | April 15, 2021 at 1:23 pm

        If beating the crap out his gf in front of her child didn’t hurt him, I doubt this will

        after all, this is “Marry Your Bro” Minnesota

        You are assuming that it would be reported that way.
        I imagine the headline will be “Convicted Murder Cop is released because of a technicality.”
        And all the usual folks will run to the mic to explain how the racist system is designed to free people like Murder Cop.

    Mike Wilson in reply to JaneDoh. | April 15, 2021 at 4:12 pm

    they don’t give a sh*t how they appear. Verdict is all that matters to them, and whoever they have so screw, suck, bribe, cheat, defraud, trick, or murder means not one whit to them.

I have no idea how the Jury will shift based on the re-appearance of Tobin. Nor do I have any idea whether Nelson can ask for a mistrial after Tobin has finished testifying.
I do think that given that Tobin was testifying Nelson did not want to give him any opportunity to rebut Fowler’s main argument as to the indeterminate cause of George Floyd’s death.

while I was raised on a east TX farm, I do not live in TX anymore

however, I remember an old saying that applies to this judge

what he don’t phuck up, he shites on

I think most people instinctively know what probably killed Georg Floyd. However, their biases cloud their thinking. Perhaps the defense as part of their closing arguments should ask the jury if they had to choose between taking the amount of drugs Floyd had or have Chauvin put his knee on them for 10 minutes, which would they choose. I think any clear thinking person would want nothing to do with drugs at a level which would likely kill them.

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 1:12 pm

Shouldn’t they have ultimately had to bring Baker back? He is the one that approached the state, he is the one that can testify to his brilliant find, he is also qualified to speak on the heart size issue, he is the one that determined the matter of death on the death certificate so shouldn’t he somewhat have to defend his own work, wand he is local. It was just unfortunate that he didn’t originally testify so hot the first time, so lets just bring in Tobin who appeared far more competent with his magical powers of EELV calculations from grainy and constantly moving video.

    thetaqjr in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 1:34 pm

    Damn, you like those magical powers, don’t you. Apparently they aren’t magical enough, because you have not only discovered them, but can mark remarks on them.

    What are they? Those powers? In establishing and predicting rates of growth and decay, I propose that the number “e” is right magical.

    Study on it.

Introducing new evidence and test results at the end of the trial is grounds for a mistrial. That violates Chauvin’s rights to a fair trial. Whatever happened to discovery?

    TargaGTS in reply to geronl. | April 15, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    ‘Discovery is racist when a white man is on trial for the brutal lynching of upstanding citizen, like George Floyd.’

    – MSNBC legal analyst

I’m betting we haven’t seen the last of the State’s hijynx.

Just like planning for cross, Nelson ought to be anticipating how this shit show of a prosecution is going to attempt to subvert the process again.

I couldn’t believe what I was reading…. MAGICALLY they come to the table with more evidence on the last day of the trial…. all while doing the 5k dump during the trial!!!! Watch – after the acquittal, they’ll keep introducing MORE evidence into the media for the next year and push for some other lynching.

I’m wondering what the discussions were between DC and Nelson regarding him testifying. Nelson said they had many many conversations and one again last night. I wonder if DC wanted to testify and Nelson convinced him otherwise.

    Laser Beam in reply to BDRAC. | April 15, 2021 at 1:50 pm

    I suspect so, and if that’s true – I think Chauvin was right.

    But let’s face it, he’s toast either way.

    I think if he’d testified he might have gotten a mistrial out of it. I think as it stands, he’ll be lucky to get the mistrial and probably far more likely is a conviction.

    A lot of these jurors went in there already locked in as “guilty” votes, and the only question has ever been whether there’d be any juror(s) who would be convinced enough, and passionate enough, to hold out and not be convinced by the angry, emotional, and racially invested guilty votes.

dallasmediator | April 15, 2021 at 1:48 pm

Thank you, Mr. Branca. Great blogging and color commentary. My favorite one was (paraphrasing here) “… the prosecution should have a pregnancy test done…”. Me second favorite was the comment regarding Eldridge’s eyes for the witness, (paraphrasing again)… “everyone should at least one day when they are looked at with those eyes…” And my third one was (!!!). Appreciated indeed.

I think it’s a massive error for Chauvin not to have taken the stand. It was the one way to really humanize himself and put into his own words that hey, I was a cop doing my job as I understood it, I didn’t have any expectation that this person might die. I thought EMTs were arriving any moment. I was intimidated by the crowd and might’ve gotten a little distracted, but my understanding was that a suspect would be fine, at most uncomfortable, indefinitely while being restrained in this way.

I know there are great arguments Nelson would’ve made against it, if that was the dynamic, but I think Chauvin has been DOA for a long time and he needed to toss some Hail Marys here.

    CHTruth in reply to Laser Beam. | April 15, 2021 at 2:13 pm

    He testifies, and the prosecution gets to bring up his Eighteen different excessive force complaints. That would probably have done him in, even though all but two were dismissed and he was only marginally disciplined for the other two.

      ugottabekiddinme in reply to CHTruth. | April 15, 2021 at 2:50 pm

      Exactly. If Ofc. Chauvin were to testify, his credibility would be in issue, so the prosecution could take a few days to examine him over everything about his life that could possibly make the jury dislike him.

      Remember when Det. Fuhrman was cross-examined in the OJ trial about whether he had ever used the N-word, which he denied? They proceeded to destroy him over it, as he had in fact used it in efforts to get an agent interested in his cop stories. (It was LA, after all). Had nothing to do with his evidence but destroyed its credibility with the jury. There would be no upside to putting Chauvin on the stand, and lots of possible downside.

      gonzotx in reply to CHTruth. | April 15, 2021 at 3:12 pm

      I would say probably most PO’s have at least 10-15 complaints by the inner city folks

      That’s the world we live in

    TargaGTS in reply to Laser Beam. | April 15, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    I bet the number of criminal defendants who testify in their own defense – already an incredibly small number – in cases where there’s no testimony from a victim to rebut, is infinitesimally small. Think He Said/She Said rape cases. We also have no idea what might be lurking in Chauvin’s background that could come out once he waives 5A.

    Still, I don’t think your point is meritless. I’ve read that the acquittal rate for defendants who testify is somewhat higher than the rate for those who don’t.

    In any event, I don’t think Chauvin is DOA. If the jury is fair, there’s AMPLE, compelling evidence for reasonable doubt. If the jury isn’t fair, he’s getting convicted no matter what he says.

      Laser Beam in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 2:21 pm

      Sorry to say, the only way you’d have gotten a fair jury is if it was 12 white/Asian people brought in from an alternate dimension.

      lurker9876 in reply to TargaGTS. | April 15, 2021 at 2:37 pm

      The jury will not be fair.

        Multistorey in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 4:04 pm

        They’re scared. I would be! If I didn’t give the mob the result they wanted my life would be ruined. We all suspect the jury have no choice, just one doxxing and their life is over. And this is the era of doxxing!

        thetaqjr in reply to lurker9876. | April 15, 2021 at 4:47 pm

        Above, you mentioned the state’s concealing exculpatory evidence by not providing Nelson with the CO findings should be a big problem. I wondered the same thing.

        Several cases address that point. If my reading about it was any good, the hidden evidence must have been material in its possible power to mitigate a verdict, or to so weaken the defense’s position as to make it indefensible in its absence.

        I don’t see how not disclosing that fact would, per se, support a verdict of guilty. I don’t see how acknowledging the fact would lead the jury to an immediate “not guilty” verdict.

        I don’t think the CO evidence qualifies as material in that regard.

        Attorneys? Materiality? Notion of exculpability ?

    gonzotx in reply to Laser Beam. | April 15, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    Humanize yes, but you would make him sound incompetent by your reasoning

    Multistorey in reply to Laser Beam. | April 15, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    You do know that the political/mob pressure/doxxing exceeds the jurors’ desire to be impartial even if they wish to be? What juror would have the guts to expose themselves and their family to going against the current narrative by a vocal minority of ACAB activists?

“If Tobin even hints test results that jury doesn’t know about, it is going to be a mistrial, period.”

And if I understand correctly, he did. So even if a mistrial is not declared, it’s grounds for appeal, correct?

Didn’t anyone else recall that previous witnesses were called specifically to talk about the vehicle in question, whether it had a catalytic converter, etc… and some people wondered why?

It was offered that it would be something that an expert witness would be testifying about, but they needed some foundation or something of that nature.

If this foundation was offered earlier in testimony, how could it be that the State (with their multiple lawyers and entire city at their disposal) had not been blindsided and so unfairly burdened that the Judge allowed them to reopen the case?

Reading back over the Tobin testimony… So basically, Cahill said don’t mention lab results or it’s a mistrial and Tobin went straight into lab results and Cahill didn’t declare a mistrial?

    StandardMurse in reply to f2000. | April 15, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    Basically that is what I gathered too

    StandardMurse in reply to f2000. | April 15, 2021 at 2:22 pm

    I rewatched the moment on youtube. He got his full sentence out about the arterial blood gas, which is the lab in question, and then came back after rephrasing and gave the result of the arterial blood gas. Sounds like more than hinting to me.

Obviously the state isn’t as sure as some of the media pundits are for this case. If they believed that this was a sure conviction, they never would have been pulling this sort of thing. Perhaps they actually “wanted’ a mistrial so they could have another crack at it. After all, could Chauvin afford to pay for another trial?

Will there be no more witnesses in the trial?

StandardMurse | April 15, 2021 at 2:23 pm

Would it be at all possible for Cahill to take the weekend, show up Monday, and say “I watched the proceedings from Thursday and I need to declare a mistrial.” ?

    ugottabekiddinme in reply to StandardMurse. | April 15, 2021 at 2:44 pm

    Theoretically possible, but in the real world, extremely unlikely. Judge Cahill wants the trial outcome to come from the jury, not from himself. Same rationale as his not granting the change of venue, IMO.

Unfortunately Nelson and Cahill both dropped the ball during the discussion of what to allow in rebuttal re carbon monoxide.

Initially, Cahill stated that Tobin could only testify regarding environment’s (i.e. exhaust) likelihood to cause elevated CO. Then Blackwell came back and asked can we mention the O2 reading which is already in evidence (because 100-O2 ~= CO). Cahill and Nelson both thought Blackwell was referring to pulseox (optical finger reading) which Fowler testified could not differentiate between O2 and CO. So Cahill just said Nelson could respond to that on cross.

Then Tobin testified on the O2 found in Floyd’s blood at the hospital, evidence which I assume had already been submitted.

IMHO it was unfair for Nelson and Cahill to have to deal with these technical medical questions at the last second, for which they were clearly out of their depth, but I don’t think Tobin/Blackwell disobeyed Cahill’s (somewhat vague) orders regarding what they could talk about.

Between yesterday with the Blackwell repeatedly saying “Let’s not confuse the jury, etc” and today with the testimony of Tobin it is clear the Prosecution is not playing fair at all. They were told in no uncertain terms that Tobin could not discuss the blood gas and that is one of the first things Tobin says. Additionally, the continual and last minute dropping of evidence on the defense is a sham.

Why is Judge Cahill not calling this a mistrial?

I’m thinking more and more that this trial is just a show. And unfortunately Chauvin likely will face prison time for this show. Also, let’s not forget the millions of dollars of private property that will continue to be stolen, burned or destroyed because of this show.

    Multistorey in reply to jackscott1. | April 15, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    Cahill doesn’t want to be remembered as the judge who called a mistrial against the current political expediency of Defund the Police and ACAB as he knows he’d also be remembered for the subsequent burning of the US by the activists! He wants another Judge to have that honour!

No WaPo today? I miss the delusional talking heads.