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If the November election is close, expect bad things due to a surge of mail-in ballots

If the November election is close, expect bad things due to a surge of mail-in ballots

Unless one candidate wins by a margin outside of delayed and disqualified ballots, there are going to be problems. Big league.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYNVH0U3cs

Donald Trump has warned that the surge in mail-in ballots, part of a deliberate Democrat strategy, could cause severe problems that would leave the result of the presidential election in doubt for days or weeks.

Part of it is voting fraud, something Democrats and the media discount completely. Part of it is mail delays, which Democrats and the media insanely and falsely blame on Trump. The third part is invalidation of ballots which has a high rate for mail-in voting in 2020 primaries.

Disregard for this purpose fraud — mail delays and fights over ballot invalidation could leave the results unknown and cause mayhem.

The implications are enormous as to the timing of results:

State election officials in some key battleground states have warned that it might take days to count the votes given what they expect will be a surge of ballots sent by mail. In an election as close as 2016′s, a delayed tally in key states could keep news organizations from calling a winner.

“It may be several days before we know the outcome of the election,” said Jocelyn Benson, Michigan’s Democratic secretary of state, said in May. “We have to prepare for that now and accept that reality.”

Delayed results are common in a few states where elections are already conducted largely by mail. But a presidential election hasn’t been left in limbo since 2000, when ballot irregularities in Florida led to weeks of chaos and court fights.

More important than timing, it may call the results into dispute due to local election official error handling mail-in ballots, as happened recently in Detroit:

Recorded ballot counts in 72% of Detroit’s absentee voting precincts didn’t match the number of ballots cast, spurring officials in Michigan’s largest county to ask the state to investigate ahead of a pivotal presidential election.

Without an explanation from Detroit election workers for the mismatches, the Wayne County Board of Canvassers requested this week for Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson’s office to examine the “training and processes” used in Detroit’s Aug. 4 primary, which one official described as a “perfect storm” of challenges. The board is charged with certifying election results….

The “storm” involved a record number of absentee ballots being cast in Michigan’s primary and seasoned election workers not feeling it was safe to help with administering the election because of COVID-19, he added.

NPR reports today, More Than 550,000 Primary Absentee Ballots Rejected In 2020, Far Outpacing 2016:

An extraordinarily high number of ballots — more than 550,000 — have been rejected in this year’s presidential primaries, according to a new analysis by NPR.

That’s far more than the 318,728 ballots rejected in the 2016 general election and has raised alarms about what might happen in November when tens of millions of more voters are expected to cast their ballots by mail, many for the first time.

Election experts said first-time absentee voters are much more likely to make the kinds of mistakes that lead to rejected ballots. Studies also show that voters of color and young voters are more likely than others to have their ballots not count.

Most absentee or mail-in ballots are rejected because required signatures are missing or don’t match the one on record, or because the ballot arrives too late….

The numbers compiled by NPR are almost certainly an underestimate since not all states have made the information on rejected mail-in ballots available.

Disputes over disqualified mail-in ballots could cause a rupture that will make Florida hanging-chads look like the good old days. Sarah Isgur, who writes for The Dispatch, tweeted:

Annnnd now we have an even clearer picture: Nearly twice as many *primary election absentee ballots* were rejected so far this year compared to *general election absentee ballots* from 2016. ALARM BELLS SHOULD BE GOING OFF, FOLKS!

Absentee ballots normally are evenly split by party. But this year Dems are 3-4 times as likely to vote absentee…leading to lots of painful litigation about which ballots will count. Could skew race as much as 5 points in battleground states!

Imagine every precinct captain in a battleground state deciding whether a signature on a ballot matches the voter’s signature card when they know that a ballot is 4x as likely to be a vote for Biden?

The suggestion that Trump supporters in election offices will try to disqualify ballots because they are more likely to be Biden votes is unfounded, but the possibility that more Biden ballots could be disqualified could swing the election according to a column Isgur wrote on August 3:

Trump can win re-election even if he’s way behind in the polls. Let me show you how.

The president has been railing against mail-in ballots for weeks and it has had an effect on his voters. Last week, Harvard CAPS-Harris released their poll which found that 88 percent of Democrats want to have a mail-in ballot option versus only 50 percent of Republicans. Another ABC News/Washington Post poll found that “only 28 percent of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s supporters saw mail voting as vulnerable to substantial fraud, whereas 78 percent of Mr. Trump’s supporters did.”

So far, every pundit I’ve seen has said this is a bad thing for Trump. But they’re wrong. If anything, the Trump campaign should be trying to drive these numbers further apart.

Why?

Let’s peek at New York’s primary from June 23. Several of the races have yet to be called because of the enormous delay in counting tens of thousands of absentee ballots. By way of comparison, in 2016, 23,000 absentee ballots were returned and validated in New York. This year, there were more than 400,000 absentee ballots returned. Again, everyone I’ve seen is using these numbers to predict that the November election won’t be called for days or weeks. Sure, that may be a problem but they are missing a much, much larger one staring them in the face.

Of those ballots that make it back to their voting precinct, “tens of thousands of mail-in ballots were invalidated for technicalities like a missing signature or a missing postmark on the envelope.” And that’s not even counting the people who requested an absentee ballot that never arrived or arrived after the election.

To make this abundantly clear: Nearly everyone who votes in person has their vote counted but far fewer of those who try to vote absentee have their vote counted. In one study out of Georgia in 2018, the rejection rate for absentee ballots was as high as 17 percent—and that’s of voters who were able to receive their ballots and return them. Currently in New York, they are reporting that 20-25 percent of absentee ballots that were returned have been disqualified.

Normally this doesn’t matter all that much because there isn’t a big partisan difference in absentee voters and both sides have a robust “absentee chase” program in which the campaigns work to ensure their absentee voters get their ballots and fill them in correctly and return them in time to be counted. But that kind of manpower is nearly impossible when absentee ballot requests soar by 20 fold as they did in New York’s June primary.

What does this all mean in terms of November?

Assuming there’s a lot more mail in ballots this time around, Joe Biden may need to be running ahead of Trump by more than 5 points with people who intend to vote to actually receive more valid votes in the final count.*

Currently, Biden is up by 8 points nationally but polls tend to tighten after Labor Day and as Clinton learned in 2016, winning the popular vote doesn’t do you any good. As of now, Biden is only up 6 points in Florida and Pennsylvania. The rest of the top tier battleground states are within 5 points.

Imagine waking up on November 4. Trump is ahead based on in-person votes cast. There’s something like 50 million absentee ballots that have been returned to precincts across the country, which are expected to favor Biden by a wide margin but nobody knows for sure. And now thousands of individual election officials need to determine how many million of those ballots to invalidate because “the signature on the ballot not matching the signature on the state’s records,” “the ballot not having a signature,” a “problem with return envelope,” or “missing the deadline.”

This would be, to put it mildly, a problem on many fronts.

Combine a surprise Trump win though Biden was ahead in the polls, mail delays, election board incompetence, and massive disqualification of (mostly Biden) ballots, and you have the recipe for an eruption.

Hell, Democrats rioted at the 2017 Inauguration even though Trump won fair and square. Expect rioting, looting, arson, and violence that will dwarf what has happened so far post-George Floyd killing.

A court fight may suit Democrats just fine, it may even be part of the plan:

From our perspective of working in, consulting for, and running over 300 political campaigns, that’s exactly what Democrats have in mind, especially for swing states, such as North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, and key Trump states like Florida….

As we explained many times in the past, Election Day chaos is part of the Democrat Party’s political strategy. See It’s Not A Protest, It’s Not A Riot, It’s A Revolution (Part 4) and The Democrats’ Chaos Strategy Almost Worked In Florida for examples.

The goal of this chaos strategy is to bring the conduct and results of the 2020 election inside the “margin of chaos,” where means other than counting legally cast votes, attributable to legal voters, will determine the outcome.

Crucial to this strategy is to fundamentally change the way American elections are conducted by eliminating in-person, ID checked voting and substituting unverifiable mail ballots, or online voting.

Once Democrats push an election inside the margin of litigation, election laws and the rules and deadlines, with which honest Republican candidates complied pre-election, are thrown out the window by activist Leftist judges and highly partisan Democrat supervisors of elections to the advantage of Democratic candidates and committees who knew in advance that ballots that were illegal on their face would have a good chance of being counted – as they were in the recent New York House District 12 Democrat primary election.

Conservatives must come to grips with the reality that for the new radical progressive Democratic Party politics is warfare, and the only rule in war is to win.

What if Trump loses in the midst of such a mess? Will the 82nd Airborne need to remove him from the White House? Will Trump supporters loot Target and attack courthouses. Doubtful, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be civil disruption.

Unless one candidate wins by a margin outside of delayed and disqualified ballots, there are going to be problems. Big league.

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Comments

The Friendly Grizzly | August 22, 2020 at 9:18 pm

No matter the margin of the results i see a lot of violence coming.

Biden is NOT up by 8 nationally

They have tightened to 4 and that’s if you believe the polls

    cktheman in reply to gonzotx. | August 22, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    Biden is not up at all, the polls are nothing but tools to manipulate voting behaviors.

      Barry Soetoro in reply to cktheman. | August 24, 2020 at 3:50 am

      Polls, especially exit polls, are also tools for Leftists to nullify an election. Remember in 2004 the Kerry Campaign argued election tallies (censuses) differed from exit polling (a sample); thus, by pseudoscientific thinking, the exit polls must be truthful.

    Voyager in reply to gonzotx. | August 22, 2020 at 11:46 pm

    That does not really matter. What matters is The Narrative, and The Narrative is that Biden is so far ahead of Trump that only massive voter suppression could let Trump win.

    By setting things up that there is a real and massive partisan difference is absentee voting they:
    A) Conceal one of the primary metrics for determining when absentee vote fraud is happen
    B) Inject massive uncertainty into the vote count

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | August 22, 2020 at 9:20 pm

Hmmmm…….

No, We Don’t Need A Government Post Office

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/no-we-dont-need-government-post-office

“Trump can win re-election even if he’s way behind in the polls. Let me show you how.”

Because the polls are full of shit, you fucking prog moron, that’s how.

Jesus these people are fucking daft.

#CountOnIt

There will be problems no matter what happens. If Biden wins, his side will trash everything in their exultation. If Trump wins, they will trash everything in rage.

The only real difference is that, under President Trump, a few of the worst of them will do jail time.

In my area absentee ballots are reviewed by a group of Republicans and Democrats who pay attention to see if the signature on the outside of the envelope bears any resemblance to the one on the voter roll. Disagreements are brought before a judge. This process can take weeks. I do not believe that mail in ballots have a signature that can be verified prior to opening the ballot. With this system we will find that every resident of nursing homes and assisted living homes will have voted despite half of them not mentally capable of doing so. A disaster in the making. This guy will not take it sitting down.

    Milhouse in reply to Gersh204. | August 23, 2020 at 1:04 am

    I do not believe that mail in ballots have a signature that can be verified prior to opening the ballot.

    Mail-in ballots are absentee ballots. They are two names for exactly the same thing. So yes, of course they have signatures; you already said they do.

    And those signatures will be checked the same way they always are. But that same way is already very flawed and notorious for fraud. There are many holes in the security system you describe, but here are two of them:

    1. Comparing signatures is a tricky thing, and all a fraudster has to do is come close enough that it’s not obviously wrong. If the fraudster has access to the signatures on file (which an party machine insider would) he can generally do that.

    2. The signature on file may already be fraudulent, since it comes from the voter registration which may itself be fraudulent. Especially in the case of nursing home patients, etc.; someone registers in their name and votes in their name, and everything matches.

      Or even easier, the Dem voting judge checks the voter registration of the ballot first:
      Dem – “Signature is an exact match.”
      Republican – “Inconsistencies in signature. Reject.”
      Independent – Depends on how the votes are breaking

      bear in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 2:26 am

      WRONG! Absentee ballots must be applied for in advance. Mail-in ballots are a lefty tool for carpet bombing every address and name in every jurisdiction, with no verification. Just check the charges being filed against the Paterson, NJ city councilman this weekend.

        Milhouse in reply to bear. | August 23, 2020 at 11:01 am

        That is not true. Mail-in ballots are absentee ballots, and must be applied for in advance. Which doesn’t stop fraud and never had. Obviously sending ballots to people who have not applied for them is even worse, but that is not happening except in a very few states.

        NJ is one of those states — they mailed ballots to those who were registered in a party, and applications to those who weren’t. And in November, unless they’re stopped, they plan to mail ballots to everyone who’s registered. And that’s an invitation for fraud. But in almost every state that is not what’s happening.

        I know that in NY that did not and will not happen. Every voter in NY was mailed an application for a mail-in ballot. Only those who sent in the application got a ballot. And while that’s obviously better than NJ, it’s the same fraud opportunity that it’s always been, but on a much bigger scale.

      puhiawa in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 2:45 am

      Elections office do not define these as the same. Mail in ballots are mailed to every registered voted , requested or not. Absentee ballots are requested. Shotgun versus bullet.

        Milhouse in reply to puhiawa. | August 23, 2020 at 10:45 am

        That is not true. Mail-in ballots are absentee ballots, and must be applied for in advance. Which doesn’t stop fraud and never had. Obviously sending ballots to people who have not applied for them is even worse, but that is not happening except in a very few states.

      Edward in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 9:44 am

      Bullshit. Absentee voting requires the voter to make a request to vote absentee. The voter must give a reason which is allowable under the state’s election laws.

      Mail in voting is ballots sent to all voters on the rolls, no request needed, no reason needed. Further most states have not complied with Federal statute requiring cleanup of the voter rolls to remove deceased, moved, etc. voters.

      That both result in ballots being returned by US mail is a common feature, but the two are completely different otherwise.

        Edward in reply to Edward. | August 23, 2020 at 9:49 am

        I guess you have never voted Absentee, else you would immediately recognize the difference. Or have you been drinking a lot of Kool Aid recently?

        My apologies to those who beat me to pointing out the difference, the first couple of sentences set me off. When Milhouse is wrong, he’s often beyond redemption wrong.

        Milhouse in reply to Edward. | August 23, 2020 at 10:45 am

        That is not true. Mail-in ballots are absentee ballots, and must be applied for in advance. Which doesn’t stop fraud and never had. Obviously sending ballots to people who have not applied for them is even worse, but that is not happening except in a very few states.

    Free State Paul in reply to Gersh204. | August 23, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    In 2016 I signed a recall petition in my state. It was rejected by the Board of Elections because they said my signature didn’t match what was on file.

    I registered to vote in 1981. I’m sure my signature has changed in 35 years. Therefore I’ll be voting in person in November.

      Depending on the state,, in person votes may be provisional. They have to make sure that you didn’t also send in a mailed ballot.. So what happens if your unsolicited mailed ballot was stolen, and used? That means your vote is cancelled. This is a terrible plan, terrible.

As has been discussed ad infinitum, the polls are worthless as measures of reality. But though essentially fictional, they do have a purpose.

The constant barrage of fake numbers will get Americans accustomed to the idea that a senile dodderer like Slow Joe could win. Now picture the Dems indulging in voter fraud at magnitudes we haven’t seen since the post-Civil War period, enough to put Gropey over the top. The win won’t seem so fantastically improbable if we’re all used to The Numbers showing us what to expect.

Draconian things which would probably happen if tens of millions of Americans were sure they’d been swindled probably won’t happen if they only suspect that they might have been swindled.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to tom_swift. | August 22, 2020 at 10:59 pm

    2008 yes, 2012 yes, 2020 no.

    The DIMS are abruptly and publicly changing more of their DNC platform to copy cat President Trump.

    And people are noticing……

    Milhouse in reply to tom_swift. | August 23, 2020 at 1:05 am

    Draconian things which would probably happen if tens of millions of Americans were sure they’d been swindled probably won’t happen if they only suspect that they might have been swindled.

    This.

    bw222 in reply to tom_swift. | August 23, 2020 at 3:03 am

    Polls used to measure public opinion. Today polls are a tool to sway public opinion.

Trump has to win beyond the margin of fraud

The margin is bigger with mail in ballots….

This may be less of a problem than the pundits think.

Constitution, Art. 2, Section 1, “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors…”

A few solid R states (governor + both houses) should go first, shortly after Republican convention. Just appoint the slate of Trump electors, and no voting for president by the general public.

The solid R states will have no practical effect on the electors appointed (would be R anyway) but will make the irrelevant “popular vote” nonexistent.

A real hoot would be for the R legislature in Pennsylvania to appoint electors in spite of the D governor. R legislature tried to cancel the COVID emergency, D governor vetoed, legislature sued in state court and lost. Appointment of electors by legislature is a federal issue.

NJ legislature could appoint D electors and solve the whole “must do mail-in voting for president” thing, but apparently the D’s want the dark and divisive chaos.

    sestamibi in reply to pinesol. | August 23, 2020 at 12:42 am

    Not a bad idea, which I have been advocating as a response to the proposed National Popular Vote Compact which has been approved by states accounting for 190 (?) electoral votes. As you point out, there is no constitutional requirement for presidential electors to be chosen by the general electorate in the first place. We do this by tradition, so that raises another problem with the NPV. If we assume that all electors are chosen by popular vote and the NPV is in force, having been approved by states representing at least 270 electoral votes, then there needs to be a requirement for a uniform ballot nationwide. Presidential candidates will have to be certified by a federal authority, and not by individual states banning candidates for not publicizing their tax returns or some such other nonsense (incidentally, I note this hasn’t been raised as a issue this year for EITHER Trump or Biden–guess the latter has something to hide so they’re not too hot to get Trump to do it either).

    As a former NJ resident, I agree that the presidential vote is not in doubt, but the Dems want an all mail ballot to protect their down ballot office holders. Right now NJ has only two GOP US reps, and one of those, Jeff Van Drew, was elected as a Dem and recently became a Republican.

    An all-mail ballot is a recipe for fraud, in which large numbers of disinterested voters will gladly sell their ballots for a couple of bucks.

    The best solution is for election authorities to mail an absentee ballot application to all voters and let them take it from there. This could work in the GOP’s favor, as I found as a volunteer in the 1982 California GOP campaign. The California Republicans (when they existed in sufficient numbers) mailed an absentee ballot application to all registered Republicans in the state. On election night Dem gubernatorial candidate Tom Bradley held a consistent lead, but the next day GOP candidate George Deukmejian overtook him. Seems Bradley won among those who voted in person, while the absentees broke 9-1 for Deukmejian. No reason why that can’t happen again.

      Milhouse in reply to sestamibi. | August 23, 2020 at 1:22 am

      The best solution is for election authorities to mail an absentee ballot application to all voters and let them take it from there.

      Isn’t that exactly what the Dems have been advocating, and what they did in this year’s primaries in states where they could?

        DSHornet in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 8:10 am

        No. Unless I missed it in everything written on the topic, nothing has been mentioned about mailing *>absentee applicationsthe ballots<* would be mailed in mass to all the registered voters – including the dead ones.
        .

        DSHornet in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 8:12 am

        We need an edit function in the worst way, but you understand what I meant.
        .

        Lucifer Morningstar in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 8:35 am

        No, that’s not what democrats have been advocating. They have been advocating for states to mail ballots to everyone listed on their unverified voter registration lists regardless of voter status.

          That’s just not true. In a very few states that happens, but in almost all states what happened in the primaries, and what Dems want to do in the general, is to mail applications to everyone, and — in those states that require a reason — to allow “I’m afraid of the Wuhan virus” as a reason. That is certainly what happened in NY.

      Edward in reply to sestamibi. | August 23, 2020 at 9:58 am

      With exceptions for people too ill and unable, or know they will be absent from the state enough in advance to request an absentee ballot, if they can’t get to the polls to vote in person they should forfeit their right and duty to vote. NO massive mailing of ballots, either using regular absentee procedures or “Mail in Voting”.

      I’ve been eligible to vote absentee under Texas statute by virtue of age for a decade. In that time I have voted absentee exactly zero (0) times. And I will continue to get to the polls, even if I have to have someone take me, until I’m too ill to walk/be rolled into the polling place to vote in person (even with the stupid computer/scanner system my county uses).

        Milhouse in reply to Edward. | August 23, 2020 at 11:11 am

        I agree. Those who are genuinely unable to appear at a polling place should have a ballot box brought to them, so they can vote in person with the usual safeguards. I believe there are places (I don’t know exactly where) where this is done in hospitals; the election judges go from bed to bed, cross the patients off the roll, and witness them casting their ballots, just as they do at a regular site. I wouldn’t even allow absentee voting for those who choose to be away, except the military, diplomats, etc. Those with religious objections to voting on the day should be allowed to vote on an earlier (but not too much earlier) day.

    Milhouse in reply to pinesol. | August 23, 2020 at 1:20 am

    A real hoot would be for the R legislature in Pennsylvania to appoint electors in spite of the D governor.

    A real hoot, except that the governor would veto it. The PA constitution has a presentation clause almost identical to the federal one.

The smart Dems know Biden is going to lose.

What to do? Make sure the election’s outcome is thrown into dispute forever, so that the second term had an asterisk and progressives stay angry for four more years.

Grounds for an investigation and potential impeachment try #2.

All China and Russia are cheering it on, hoping to create dissatisfaction and create a lack of confidence in the system.

Other goals: delegitimize the current election process and create a groundswell for change. Once that momentum for change exists, push through a crappy new system that is easier to rig

Like national popular vote.

Dems: not only do they never let a crisis go to waste, they never waste an opportunity to create a crisis.

Whole thing is sickening. I am voting in person though to make sure my vote isn’t lost in the mail.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to PrincetonAl. | August 23, 2020 at 12:09 am

    Won’t work this time.

      The sickos of the blm class will never relent: they are SO WELL FUNDED: where will these idiots ever get such high paying work again? The answer is ‘never’.

      Until the funders of this chaos are indicted, it will NEVER end – even if a democrat wins. A brownshirt army is in place to terrorize the electorate. They’ll call them out when needed.

      blm needs to be destroyed from within: follow the money. Boycott the blm/nba/ blm/nfl etc.

NV and CA have more than 5% of the vote cast by illegals. VA has a huge similar problem, enough to sway as many as 12 counties. Broward County FL manufactures votes by the simple method of casting votes for registered voters who do not vote…that is why the ballots are always late. MN uses a similar fraud system. CA allows harvesting, runner take pre-filled out ballots to thousands of people and get or even pay for a signature. Those that change the ballot simply will have that ballot destroyed. The USPO has been found on two occasions now destroying Republican ballots. New Jersey relies upon crooked elections judges counting mail ins. Detroit doesn’t care how it cheats. More than half of its tally sheets did not remotely resemble the contents in numbers or candidate chosen…Democrats would win by huge percentages on the tally sheets, wherein the actual contents showed a much closer race with far fewer ballots in the box. In Philadelphia it is simply impossible to vote for a Republican in some districts. You might actually be killed if you tried, and most certainly your vote will be torn up…perhaps in front of you by an armed man. In Wisconsin, out of State students have skewed the count for decades claiming to be residents…while they voted in their own State. FL also has a bit of that problem, with 10K New Yorkers voting in both States.
Notice the party that is always on the wrong side of the law?

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to puhiawa. | August 23, 2020 at 12:07 am

    That’s why the New Flu kills Democrats who touch any ballot…..

    Milhouse in reply to puhiawa. | August 23, 2020 at 1:24 am

    CA allows harvesting, runner take pre-filled out ballots to thousands of people and get or even pay for a signature. Those that change the ballot simply will have that ballot destroyed.

    That’s certainly something that harvesting makes possible, but there is no evidence of it happening. At this point it’s just speculation, but since we’re talking about Dems it’s not unlikely that they’re doing at least some of this.

      Voyager in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 3:02 am

      The CA DA had no interest in investigating any of what happened, this is true, but a significant number of the districts that flipped last cycle both had more votes than registered voters and flipped because the absentee ballots were heavily skewed D relative to the in-person votes.

      Both of those are big red flags for vote fraud, but the DA has been extremely uninterested in doing much about it.

        Milhouse in reply to Voyager. | August 23, 2020 at 11:14 am

        No district had more votes than registered voters. And the difference in the absentee votes can be completely explained by the fact that the Dems harvested votes — honestly, as far as the evidence goes — and the Reps didn’t.

        I believe that as well as harvesting votes honestly the Dems probably also did so dishonestly, and that this accounts for some of the difference, but I have no evidence for this. I just believe it because it would be so easy to do, and so hard to get caught, that I don’t see how the Dems could resist the temptation.

          randian in reply to Milhouse. | August 24, 2020 at 1:08 am

          Even if they didn’t have more votes than registered voters, high vote counts are extremely suspicious. You see some precincts in Florida with 80+% of registered voters voting. That’s not remotely believable in the absence of fraud.

“there are going to be problems. Big league….”

Well, that’s the plan, isn’t it?

If Sessions wasn’t a rat, and Barr was on the case regarding hillary clinton’s high crimes, this election would be over by now.

We know Sessions was probably being extorted. But Barr: What’s YOUR excuse?

We have to face a reality that even if PDJT wins, our country is never going to be the same. You can’t put genies back in bottles. After 24 years of clinton/bush/clinton/obama, the damage is just too great. And after God knows how many years of rino GOPe treason, the damage was allowed to infest itself too deep into the soul and minds of the young. And the fat. And the loser. And the pervert, etc.

The idea of our splitting the nation in at least two parts should be studied. Imagine ridding ourselves of the burden of the clinton/obama voting population? We’d be in paradise. And you can be sure they feel the same way about us.

We should do it now, while we can do it without violence.

    I’ve been feeling this way for about a year already; however, the feeling’s gotten much more intense lately.

    It seems to be a universally natural and cyclical rhythm: a coming together, followed by a pulling apart; rinse, and repeat. Pick a culture and time, you’ll find it. It must be our turn again, 2.0; we’re a stubborn lot — many cultures disrupt after only one major pull at the seam, like our 19th century Civil War, this theory runs.

    This possibly real phenomenon recalls, for imagistic translation, the cyclical opening-and-shutting pinwheel-like portal of sorts Spock found himself drifting in space toward, under his own power, in Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979).

    But getting back to your serious, most sobering point, I wonder if Joe kind of anticipated this, our current, national condition, when he recommended the breaking up of Iraq after Gulf War I, in the early 1990s, into three distinct zones: Kurdish (Northern), Sunni (Middle), and Shi’ite (Southern), rather that a single, politically unified, though culturally fractured, Shia-led state in, centered in Baghdad.

    Maybe he had an advanced sense of such matters; and so, now welcomes rupture in the US. Or maybe not, since its more political control, not less, that he and his fellow prog travelers seek.

    Anyway, as for me, I can’t decide definitively about it, whether to promote it or oppose it, because the US has been here before — formally, I mean, but with a far different fact pattern, of course — and President Lincoln led its resolution.

    So, the question, if it’s one, seems to be a toss-up at this time. Neither option would seem to award more than it would deprive, I guess. My thoughts arrest in this, by sheer paralysis.

    Damn these events!

Imagine every precinct captain in a battleground state deciding whether a signature on a ballot matches the voter’s signature card when they know that a ballot is 4x as likely to be a vote for Biden?

The suggestion that Trump supporters in election offices will try to disqualify ballots because they are more likely to be Biden votes is unfounded,

Is that the suggestion? Or is it that Biden supporters will try not to disqualify ballots because they are more likely to be Biden votes?

The whole subject of comparing signatures is very difficult. I know, because as a poll worker I have that job, and I know that signatures change over time, often radically. It’s difficult to challenge someone’s signature; if it’s even vaguely similar to the one on file the temptation is to shut up and let them vote.

I’ve only ever challenged a signature once, when it was nothing even close to what was on file, and the person admitted that he was not who he claimed to be. He didn’t even seem to realize that was a crime, and I didn’t report him to anyone, I just refused to give him a ballot and he accepted that. Had I reported him I doubt anything would have happened to him. He would have just said he didn’t know he wasn’t supposed to do that, and he would have been let go with a warning not to try it again.

There was someone else whose signature had changed but I recognized him from previous elections so I gave him a ballot and told him to send in a new registration form.

    bw222 in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 3:11 am

    At present a relatively small percentage (10% maybe) of people vote by absentee ballot. Imagine the difficulty if 100% vote mail-in.

      Milhouse in reply to bw222. | August 23, 2020 at 11:31 am

      But signature matching is much the same task whether the person votes in person or by mail. The only difference is that if the person is there and the signature doesn’t match you can ask them about it and give them another chance.

      With mailed-in votes some states also do that, but it means sending them a notice and having them send in a new signature within a certain time, and then that has to be checked, and there’s all sorts of fraud associated with that process too.

My worry is that the delays in counting all the mailed in ballots (absentee or otherwise) will push the counts, recounts, and lawsuits out past the statutory date for the Electoral College vote. (I think there’s a six week window…)

Once that happens, if no one has enough votes for a majority (like if a few swing states are still recounting) it goes to the House.

Trump has plenty of state delegations in the House to win, but Democrats have control of when and if the House is in session. After the shenanigans with not sending the impeachment to the Senate, does anyone doubt that Nancy Pelosi would be willing to play games with this?

Imagine getting to New Year’s and having a majority of House delegations declaring Trump won the election, but Pelosi not calling the House into session. The Senate might confirm that Pence won the VP slot, or they might hold off too, while they struggle to get 51 of the 53 GOP Senators to agree on a plan. Then you’ll have people talking about Nancy Pelosi being third in succession behind the two empty slots, and planning for her inauguration. (Or the new incoming House getting to select literally anyone to be Speaker for two weeks before succeeding to the vacant Presidency…)

    Milhouse in reply to clintack. | August 23, 2020 at 1:34 am

    My worry is that the delays in counting all the mailed in ballots (absentee or otherwise) will push the counts, recounts, and lawsuits out past the statutory date for the Electoral College vote. (I think there’s a six week window…)

    The Electors vote on Dec 14.

    Once that happens, if no one has enough votes for a majority (like if a few swing states are still recounting) it goes to the House.

    This makes no sense. If the EC votes there will be a majority, so long as there are an odd number of electors and they all vote for one of the two major candidates. The fact that some states will not have participated in the vote will be irrelevant. So it will not get to the House. Of course if the states not having chosen electors in time are R then that would give the D candidate (whoever that is by then) a majority, which is not good.

      clintack in reply to Milhouse. | August 23, 2020 at 7:56 am

      Huh.

      So, you’re saying if Wisconsin is still in court doing recounts, they just don’t send any electors, and the “majority” needed is less than 270.

      I guess that makes sense. I was imagining there’d be a bunch of messiness, but maybe there wouldn’t be.

    Lucifer Morningstar in reply to clintack. | August 23, 2020 at 8:14 am

    Once that happens, if no one has enough votes for a majority (like if a few swing states are still recounting) it goes to the House.

    Where the saving grace may be that if that were to happen each state has only one vote to cast so having the majority really doesn’t matter. 50 votes majority wins and that’s all folks!

    Trump has plenty of state delegations in the House to win, but Democrats have control of when and if the House is in session. After the shenanigans with not sending the impeachment to the Senate, does anyone doubt that Nancy Pelosi would be willing to play games with this?

    Except that if the election is thrown to the House and they cannot make a decision by “the fourth day of March next following” (12th Amendment) then the Presidency devolves to the current VP and Pence becomes president. So Nancy and the rest wouldn’t win by delaying a vote as I hardly think they would want that to happen.

      1. That date has been changed to Jan 20.

      2. It doesn’t go to the outgoing VP; it goes to the new VP who was chosen either by the electoral college, or by the senate. If neither the electors nor the senate has chosen a VP then it goes to the Speaker (if there is one), and then to the senate’s president pro tem.

The next election writ small? For the past few gubernatorial elections in CT, some cities, particularly and notably Bridgeport, always, repeat, always has a problem with too many voters to be accommodated by the poll closing time, so they are permitted by judges to keep the polls open until all the potential voters in line get to vote. When Lamont was running close to the Republican candidate, the problematic Bridgeport polls generated enough votes to push him over the line. And it keeps happening. Nobody fixes the system between elections because they don’t want it fixed; they can manufacture votes or pile on last minute voters to boost the Democrat numbers when needed.

The same will happen with these mail in votes, as there is no secure chain of custody in the ballots, no verification or purging of the voter rolls, and the frightening support given to Biden by the postal workers union.

    Lucifer Morningstar in reply to Dimsdale. | August 23, 2020 at 8:23 am

    Then you’ll have people talking about Nancy Pelosi being third in succession behind the two empty slots, and planning for her inauguration.

    Read the 12th Amendment. It don’t work that way. If the election is thrown to the House of Reps for a decision and they fail to make that decision by the “fourth day of March next following” then VP Pence becomes president “as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President”. So there won’t be a Pres. Nancy Pelosi not matter how much the “people” want it to happen.

A large reason the Dems/Progs are beside themselves is they can’t believe the smartest woman in the world lost a rigged election to a person who never held elected office. This time, they will try to rig it better. They have been laying the groundwork.

Just what we need to wrap up 2020…

notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital | August 23, 2020 at 3:49 am

Deuteronomy 32:35

To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence;

their foot shall slide in due time:

for the day of their calamity is at hand,

and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

2 days into this USPS ‘crisis’ I thought they would get around to their obvious best solution 1 month of voting, their slowly warming up to that.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to Skip. | August 24, 2020 at 5:04 pm

    Today’s USPS is CORRUPT!!!!!!!!!

    It and its carriers are not the USPS of your parents and grandparents.

If anything serves as a prime example for how technology and politics don’t mix, it’s that we used to get this done in 12 HOURS! Now we can’t get it done at all.

The longer we provide to vote and the more ways we allow, the more opportunities to corrupt the vote. So we end up in court.

    Keep it simple. Register to vote. On election day, polls open early )IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD and close at 7pm or whatever. If you aren’t motivated to do something THAT SIMPLE, you don’t deserve to vote.

    Handicapped people who need special handling do not account for enough voters to matter in almost all elections so there would be very few delays. But politicians always find a way to cheat. So we need to place our resources in certification of each step with serious consequences for not obeying the rules.

    At what point are we too stupid to be considered to be a civilization? We sure are sliding into 3rd world territory fast!

Unfortunately, the only qualifications for voting are that you are 18 and you register. If you were required to successfully complete the voting process in order for your vote to count, that would solve all the problems. So in other words, if you’re too stupid to follow the directions then you’re too stupid to decide who should be running our governments. But alas, stupid is not a disqualifier for the voter or the votee.

Which leads me to my next logical point. Why is there this assumption, which was proved out in the primaries, that Democrats are overwhelmingly too stupid to follow the directions?

Guys,

My advice, as others have posted, start now in finding out where your polling location is. Go to the county election webpage, if there is one for your county. Go to the state election web page. Ask the appropriate questions.

Better yet see if there is still time to become a poll worker or party monitor if they are allowed in your state. The point is to make sure you, and others, are correctly informed about the lawful procedures as well as making sure that election officials are aware that folks are paying attention.

Hopefully a bottom up voter education campaign regarding the process can complement the inevitable legal challenges following the election. Maybe not, but it’s worth the time.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to CommoChief. | August 24, 2020 at 3:34 pm

    Great advice.

    Start now everybody because the Democrats and their employees in colleges, libraries, media, etc. are the masters OF DIRTY ILLEGAL TRICKS.

    Just one example in 2016, a local community college cancelled all classes and locked up their campuses – some that had been used for decades as voting stations. Oh, they made sure the faculty and staff had to attend an all-day “seminar” in a remote location. (Hint: The new college president is a woman and the college is the one Hillary swooped in on in her big jet airplane to celebrate “free college for all.”)

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