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If Senate Republicans take the hard vote now on impeachment witnesses, they will not regret it in November

If Senate Republicans take the hard vote now on impeachment witnesses, they will not regret it in November

Screw the base by letting Adam Schiff do to the impeachment trial what Senate Democrats did to the Kavanaugh hearings, and Republicans will have hell to pay in November from their own base. It’s like the vote on Kavanaugh in that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEK63h8OC0

Mitch McConnell released a resolution to be introduced Tuesday that sets the schedule for the Senate impeachment trial.

(Trying not to laugh) The proceedings will start at 1 p.m. each day (to accommodate the Chief Justice’s day job schedule), and go for 12 hours. Rinse and repeat. Whoever said Mitch McConnell doesn’t have a sense of humor?

But seriously.

McConnell would not introduce this resolution unless he knew he had the votes, despite Chuck Schumer’s bluster about introducing amendments and forcing votes. Force all you want, Chuck, but these are going to be the rules.

Chad Pergram at Fox News has a detailed discussion of the process, but here’s the short Axios version:

Under the resolution, House Democratic managers and Trump’s defense team will each be given up to 24 hours over two days to present their cases.

  • Senators will then have 16 hours to submit their questions to Chief Justice John Roberts.
  • After the Q&A period, the Senate will vote on whether to consider and debate witness subpoenas.
  • If the Senate votes no, no one will be permitted to call for new witnesses or documents, according to a Republican leadership aide.
  • If the Senate votes yes, both sides will have an opportunity to motion to subpoena witnesses, then senators will debate and vote on them.
  • Then the Senate will vote on whether to convict the president and remove him from office.

Everyone knows the key vote is whether to allow witnesses who did not already testify in the House. That’s the ballgame. That determines whether Adam Schiff gets to turn the Senate into a circus like he did the House. Once the clowns are allowed in, it’s going to be hard to get them out.

Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz was on Tucker tonight and made the point that in horse trading over witnesses, Republicans inevitably will lose — Democrats will get the witnesses they want and somehow Republicans will never actually end up getting the witnesses they want. Democrats in Congress are much better at playing dirty.

It’s a fools game, but it’s one I fear scared Republicans in the Senate will play. This impeachment is a scam, an attempted political decapitation. It should be shut down after the presentation of cases and Q&A. Dismiss it or vote on it guilty or not guilty.

Take the hard vote now and Republicans will not regret it in November. Screw the base by letting Adam Schiff do to the the impeachment trial what Senate Democrats did to the Kavanaugh hearings, and Republicans will have hell to pay in November from their own base. It’s like the vote on Kavanaugh in that way.

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Comments

Somewhere in the long history of Court Cases there must be a judge or hundred that seriously regretted granting a motion to dismiss (moving any clown show to the Appeals process if any) and instead became ringmaster of the circus.

    Edward in reply to tz. | January 21, 2020 at 8:18 am

    I must have missed something. Why would the Judge become a ringmaster of the clown show if the motion to dismiss was granted?

Addendum: Roberts wanted to play legislator and wheel and deal on the Individual Mandate. It isn’t instant karma, but divine justice properly paced.

He could recuse and appoint RBG, but she said she would move to NZ if Trump was elected…

RINOs gotta RINO.

the #civilwar gets closer every day.

    redc1c4 in reply to redc1c4. | January 20, 2020 at 9:31 pm

    i meant to say “the *hot* #civilwar gets closer every day”: we’ve been in the cold part for sometime now.

    At least we now see why rinos are rinos: MONEY.

    These bastards are part of the swamp, as corrupt as the left, but worse: unlike the left, they have stabbed us in the back to line their pockets.

My feeling/guess is that McConnell has good control over his caucus, and that McConnell is going to get what he asks for from them. And McConnell is going to do this not for Trump, but because Nancy Pelosi is challenging his authority to run the Senate the way he wants, and Mitch is not going to stand for a personal insult to himself like that.

If you want to say he’s going to do the right thing for the wrong reasons, that’s one way of looking at it. Doesn’t really matter, as long as he does the right thing in the end.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I saw Maria Bartiromo interview Ted Cruz on Sunday, and he made a strong case that pushing this through to a full acquittal was much, much better than a quick dismissal. And if McConnell, Graham, and Cruz are all united in wanting that, it’s a safe bet that’s what the game plan will be.

    Olinser in reply to Tom Servo. | January 20, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    Disagree STRONGLY.

    What’s going to happen is that they’re going to indulge them like this farce isn’t total bullshit.

    Then they’re going to impeach him again. And demand more and more and more.

    Which is EXACTLY what happened with Kavanaugh. They passed the period to introduce documents and evidence. Feinstein pulled her crap with, “WELL YOU HAVE TO INTRODUCE THIS IN EVIDENCE EVEN THOUGH I SAT ON IT FOR WEEKS”.

    Grassley, being the pussy that he is, let it happen. Then it became WE DEMAND AN FBI INVESTIGATION. Then it became WE DEMAND SHE BE ALLOWED TO TESTIFY. Then it became WE DEMAND A DELAY BEFORE SHE TESTIFIES. Then it became NOW WE HAVE THESE OTHER ACCUSERS WE DEMAND MORE INVESTIGATIONS AND TESTIMONY.

    Because with crap like this the minute you open the door to indulging them they demand more and more and more, and if you ever try and refuse any demand, no matter how ludicrous, they stamp their feet about how ‘biased’ you are being.

    The only way to deal with bullshit like this is to publicly call it bullshit and refuse to indulge it.

    This ‘trial’ should last 65 minutes. 60 minutes for the House to present its case. 4 minutes for the President to demand to know what criminal statute has been violated. 1 minute for them to dismiss it.

    This farce should be treated with the seriousness with which it was conducted in the House – none.

      TheOldZombie in reply to Olinser. | January 21, 2020 at 12:54 am

      “Then they’re going to impeach him again. And demand more and more and more.”

      The moment House Democrats introduce a third impeachment after the crap of the first two that will be a guarantee that they will lose 2020 to Trump AND they will for sure lose the House.

      It will become glaringly obvious to those who don’t follow politics (unlike us at LI) that the Democrats are just being idiots. The Democrats will pay in 2020.

      CKYoung in reply to Olinser. | January 21, 2020 at 3:45 am

      I agree with you 100% Olinser. The democrats have been using the same playbook for decades. With the Kavenaugh hearings, PDJT snatched the playbook out of fienstien’s clutching hands and smacked her in the face with it. He is showing the Republicans how to win. 1. Call out the fake politicians. 2. Call out the fake news. 3. Keep working for the American people. The democrats are doomed and they don’t even know it.

    Here’s the “whole ballgame”:

    “If the Senate votes yes[on allowing witnesses], both sides will have an opportunity to motion to subpoena witnesses, then senators will debate and vote on them.”

    Maybe I’m wrong but I understand that only a simple majority is required on this vote. How confident are you that the Gang of Romney do not have the numbers to carry the day on this?

    We’ve been here before. This is classic kabuki theater. I’ll believe what you are saying will happen when I see it. Almost all of the GOP Senators are the same spineless swamp creatures who got us into this mess in the first place. I’m not making any bets.

      We obviously don’t know how Romney, et al, will vote on any question. Mittens is reported to have said yesterday that the McConnell rules for the trial are the same rules used for Slick Willie’s 1999 trial. He seemed to believe that that is a fair situation and would vote for the rules.

        It’s not about what the swamp rats say but what they do. IMHO, they are quietly positioning themselves to deliver the knockout punch. McConnell is praised for focusing on “the long game”. He is also an entrenched corruptocrat deeply invested in the status quo. This impeachment is just an obstacle in the way of his long term objectives. See where I’m going?

        Who cares what they say. Why are they getting cute with procedure? This process should have ended in the House. But the spineless Republicans once again willingly position themselves to be quickly put on the defensive. That is what they do. Leopards don’t change their spots.

        BuckWheat in reply to Edward. | January 21, 2020 at 9:54 am

        Of course, we know not how Romney will vote… however, every time the words Romney and vote appear close together, I always remember Johnnie-boy McCain, marching out to the Senate floor like a Roman emperor and casting his “thumbs down” vote.

      IThe first three votes were 53-47 against Schumer’s resolutions.

“Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz was on Tucker tonight and made the point that in horse trading over witnesses, Republicans inevitably will lose — Democrats will get the witnesses they want and somehow Republicans will never actually end up getting the witnesses they want.”

Exactly. None of the new witnesses Democrats want to call have any relevance to the articles of impeachment, and Republican witnesses could be deeply embarrassing for Democrats. Because the polls are moving against them Democrats are fishing for SOMETHING to reverse the tide and at least secure a propaganda victory by getting a simple majority vote to remove (even if actual removal is out of the question). The MSM/DNC axis wants to be able to crow from now to November, “A BIPARTISAN MAJORITY believes Trump is a criminal who should not be President, but the evil white male racists in the GOP are covering for him.”

    “None of the new witnesses Democrats want to call have any relevance to the articles of impeachment…”

    I have to disagree on that to the extent that the Socialist-Democrats get the witnesses they want: the President’s Chief of Staff, the National Security Advisor, the Homeland Security Secretary (one other I can’t recollect at the moment). Each would have to know something about Ukraine and what was going on in the Oval Office at the time.

    That being said I’d be completely surprised if the Courts required any of these (with claims of Executive Privilege) who are subpoenaed to testify. Even Bolton, who has given the Socialist-Democrats propaganda points with his statement that he would testify, will not be required to testify over the President’s claim of Executive Privilege (of course it might require the SCOTUS to make the decision, I’d not be surprised at a District Court Judge to rule THIS President has no Executive Privilege rights.

    Speaking of Bolton and Socialist-Democrat propaganda, just saw a commercial on FNC where his agreement to testify is turned against the Republican Senators to not gag him, but let the truth out by letting him testify. Bolton getting his panties in a wad over being let go has given those he has railed against for decades the opportunity to use him against the Republicans.

With the Democrats’ desire to call witnesses, I suggest Mr. McConnell push through a new rule: no hearsay evidence of any kind shall be permitted, either in the presentation of the manager, or of the president’s defense team (hey, we’re fair!), or of any new witness. If you weren’t there, you don’t testify.

Just imagine what that would do to the Democrats’ case. Imagine the frothing at MSNBC. And best of all, most Americans would judge that as innately fair.

Mitch could gut ’em with this, and then say, sure, let’s see who you want to call as witnesses. Because with the ‘no hearsay’ rule there WOULDN’T BE ANY DEMOCRATIC WITNESSES. And yet there’d be plenty of Trump witnesses.

Bring. It. On.

    TheOldZombie in reply to stevewhitemd. | January 21, 2020 at 12:57 am

    Exactly. I can not understand why they would even think of entertaining witnesses who did not testify in the House Impeachment Inquiry.

    Let Trumps team rip apart all those who testified in the House. It can’t be that hard since the bulk of the testimony was pure trash.

    Agree…until the case leaves the House where the case is prepared, after that it’s too late. In the senate the case is argued, no new witnesses; Olinser’s post, above, has it right, essentially “show me what you’ve got.” Then, as you say: Bring. It. On.

I would love to hear an exchange that roughly goes.

House: “We demand to have this witness or we cannot conduct the trial appropriately!”
Senate: “You’re sure about that?”
House: “Absolutely!”
Senate: “Very well, we will dismiss these charges and the House can conduct whatever investigation they failed to do the first time. All in favor?”

Hmm. Each day 12 straight hours with no breaks?

This ‘impeachment’ is ONLY about obama/pelosi/biden/clinton/kerry/jarrett getting caught committing the most heinous treason and corruption:

REPORT — Obama doubled aid to Ukraine in exchange for millions flowing back to Clinton Foundation:

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/report-obama-doubled-aid-to-ukraine-in-exchange-for-money-flowing-back-to-clinton-foundation-and-dirt-on-manafort/

WHERE THE HELL IS AG BARR??????????????????????????

Ed Buck is a major donor to the democrats. He was recently arrested for the homosexual-driven murders of three black men. He was known as a suspect, but Buck was protected by the locat democrat party, until yet another dead body showed up at his place:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/19/ed-buck-la-overdoses-latest-democratic-donor

Look who his protecters are: schiff, clinton and the gang:

Red State in possession of Adam Schiff compromising photo with Ed Buck:
https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/breaking-red-state-in-possession-of-adam-schiff-compromising-photo-with-ed-buck/

It doesn’t matter really what the Senate does.
We are re-electing Trump.

Screw the base by letting Adam Schiff do to the the impeachment trial what Senate Democrats did to the Kavanaugh hearings, and Republicans will have hell to pay in November from their own base

There are enough Never-Trumpers and turncoats in the Senate to accomplish exactly that. They don’t care that Trump made the Republicans relevant, they only care that he wasn’t their man.

So now Mitch wants the jury to determine which witnesses the defense may call.

Haven’t we figured out that “both” establishment parties do not want to allow the defendant to defend himself in this “trial”? My great fear is that the Republicans are just as feckless as the Democrats and will once again deliver a win for the Democrats in the end. How many times are we going to buy into this kabuki act? We are being rolled again.

Bitterlyclinging | January 21, 2020 at 8:13 am

Enrique Pena Nieto wasn’t the only politician on the take from el Chapo whose reach likely extended well north of the US/Mexico border. Believe me, there’s more than one Republican politician, along with the Democrats, looking for a way to please their Mexican drug lord masters.

If they want more witnesses, then the whole thing should be kicked back to the House because they clearly didn’t do their job. Send it back with a big red “incomplete” grade on it.

The Republicans were pussies in the Kavanaugh hearings. Feinstein had the Blasey Ford material during the Kavanaugh hearings but did not choose to submit it until after the end of the original hearings. The Republicans should have told her, “You had your opportunity to introduce this material earlier, and failed to do so. It’s your fault, not ours.”
So, now Pelosi, Schumer, and Schiff insist the Republicans call witness during the Senate deliberations. No f—ing way! They had their opportunity during the House proceedings, and failed to do so. It’s not the Senate’s job to rescue the Democrats from their own stupidity.

If I was McConnell and could marshal the votes:

1. HoR impeachment managers put on dog and pony 24 hours
2. POTUS responds 24 hours
3. Vote to dismiss obstruction article which is laughable on it’s face. HoR currently has subpoena before Federal courts, HoR had subpoena before courts prior to impeachment inquiry and during the inquiry. So the HoR can’t pretend that fighting a subpoena is ‘obstruction’
4. Debate witnesses
5. Senate should limit HoR to witnesses they called during Inquiry. Since POTUS was not accorded same privileges during the Inquiry he can call whatever relevant witnesses he wishes
6. Vote to dismiss abuse of power article. POTUS is unitary executive and is responsible for foreign policy. Executive branch released funds in same fiscal year as the appropriation and thus complied with the appropriation.

Bottom line is the Senate should send the following message with it’s votes.
A. HoR shouldn’t rush an impeachment and expect the Senate to cure it’s deficient articles
B. HoR can’t dictate to Senate how Senate performs it’s duty
C. Resisting congressional subpoena is not an impeachable offense. Go to court or negotiate compliance

IMO, there is too much narrow focus on getting Trump vs creating lasting damage to historical balances between executive and legislative branches and between HoR and Senate. If McConnell can sell this to the RINO senators then they can use this as cover for their votes.

Per Lou Dobbs, the Republicans voted in lockstep on the first three of Schumer’s resolutions. Will they stay that way? Probably.

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