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Florida Naval Air Station Shooter a Saudi Aviation Student

Florida Naval Air Station Shooter a Saudi Aviation Student

Officials investigating if it is terrorism-related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1kNl6kjaI

Authorities identified the shooter at the Pensacola, FL, Naval Air Station as Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, a Saudi Arabia national.

Alshamrani shot and killed three people at the station this morning:

The shooter — who was wielding a handgun, despite firearms not being allowed on base — was confronted and taken out by a pair of responding officers, officials say. Two people were killed at the scene while a third victim died after being rushed to a local hospital. Seven others suffered injuries and are undergoing treatment, including the two officers, one of whom was shot in the arm and the other in the knee. Both are expected to survive.

“The government of Saudi Arabia needs to make things better for these victims,” Gov. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla., who says he has spoken to President Trump about the shooting, told reporters during a press conference Friday afternoon. “They are going to owe a debt here given that this is one of their individuals.”

“Anyone who serves in the Navy knows that this is a special place, Naval Air Station Pensacola,” DeSantis added. “All these brave warriors who wear the wings, they come through here for flight training. And so this is a dark day for a very great place.”

The Associated Press reported officials have begun investigating if it was terrorism-related.

The Naval Air Station hosts the Naval Education and Training Security Assistance Field Activity’s International Training Center. Cmdr. Bill Gibson, the man in charge, said in 2017 that placing “international students in our U.S. Navy training and culture helps build partnership capacity for both the present and for the years ahead.”

The Navy confirmed people from Saudi Arabia make up “[T]he majority of the hundreds of students that have participated in the program.”

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Comments

Who knew? Another little international get well program. Hard for me to fathom why we are training Saudi pilots to do anything anywhere after 9-11.

It’s not like their air force is worth a damn.

And how’d he get the gun?

    bobtuba in reply to Titan28. | December 6, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    Full disclosure: 26 years AF, former fighter pilot. We’ve been training Saudis for decades. There were several around my pilot training base, and more at Luke where I went through initial F-15 training early 80’s (the Saudis also bought the F-15). Here’s the rub, at the danger of saying something slightly racist: As a group, Arabs are quite possibly the world’s worst aviators. By a large margin. The Africans do better. The Asians do better. There is a perfect storm with the Arabs with their culture, experience, temperament, and who knows what, that make them particularly resistant to Western style aviation training. It doesn’t sink in, it doesn’t do any good. Ask any flight instructor that has had any experience in this matter, and they would tell you the same thing.
    Maybe it’s time to stop trying.

      The Packetman in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 4:25 pm

      The fact that they’re the worlds’ worst pilots isn’t racist, it’s the truth.

      Maybe if they want better pilots they should reflect on what it is about them that makes them flying imbeciles.

        JusticeDelivered in reply to The Packetman. | December 6, 2019 at 6:51 pm

        Evey inferior group objects to being recognized as such. A big part of the problem starts with low IQ, but there is much more to it than IQ. Churchill had their number when he was a young man, what he had to say about them is still true today.

      david7134 in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 5:40 pm

      A relative was taking his introductory officers courses. Multiple soldiers from other countries were in attendance. During an HR class, one of the men from the middle East seriously asked what was wrong with rape of the fellow soldiers and staff. People keep telling us that only extremist are violent and deadly and we should read the Koran and other religious text to see how peaceful they are and that the violence in their literature is no different from the Bible. My point is that I don’t need to read that junk as all I have to do is watch how they interpret their holy books and their subsequent violence or lack of reaction to acts in the name of Islam. We are at war with Islam, not terror. Terror is a weapon, just like a bomb. We have been at war for 1500 years and it will not end until Islam is banned from our society.

      Paul in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 6:30 pm

      yeah, but in all fairness, they don’t need to be that good when they’re not concerned about LANDING the plane.

      randian in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 6:31 pm

      who knows what

      The word you’re looking for is “inshallah”. It means “by the will of Allah”. Since literally nothing happens unless Allah wills it, from moment to moment, there is no point in learning anything or doing plane maintenance. The plane will fly if Allah wills it and won’t if not.

      You will often hear phrases like “I will see you at , inshallah”. The speaker is saying that he bears no responsibility for showing up at your appointment. If he goes shopping instead it was Allah’s will that made it so.

        snopercod in reply to randian. | December 7, 2019 at 7:12 am

        When I was in college, the wife and I befriended a few Iranian students (long story). They would occasionally invite us to their parties. When I asked them why they weren’t studying for the mid-term exams the next day, they would respond, “If Allah wills it, we will pass”.

        Former AF, pilot (but not a fighter guy).
        The stories of Muslim pilots in spin training were legendary. Instructor pilots having to take over the aircraft were legion. The aircraft would be put into a spin, the student (Saudi, usually) would attempt recovery and fail, then take their friggin’ hands entirely off the stick and throttle and say “inshallah”.

        I heard first-hand from one or two about grabbing the Saudi by his oxygen hose and smacking his (helmeted) head against the canopy to get him to grasp he HAD to learn this.

        Yes, it’s a real problem for some of them. (Others were actually intelligent and became skilled pilots.)

          JusticeDelivered in reply to GWB. | December 7, 2019 at 6:54 pm

          When a groups average IQ is lower the statistical probability of them producing higher intelligence individuals drops dramatically. The difference between Ashkenazi Jews and the average level of the average Saudi is so great that the Saudis are incapable of understanding just how wide their performance gap is.

      puhiawa in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 6:53 pm

      Well that’s encouraging. Who flies the big passenger stuff?

        Americans and Europeans. The “true” Saudis don’t do “work”.

        (Again, that’s “mostly”. There are some good people among them.)

      Are they wearing keffiyehs under their helmets? That could be the problem.

      CKYoung in reply to bobtuba. | December 6, 2019 at 10:06 pm

      Simplified version of a story I will neither confirm nor deny:

      US Army Instructor Pilot (IP)
      ME Royal Prince Flight Student (RP)

      IP: Did you memorize your daily emergency procedure?
      RP: No. No matter what happens, Allah will provide.
      IP: Well maybe Allah provided you with this big book containing all these emergency procedures so that if something bad does happens, you’ll live through it.
      RP: (Blank stare)

      The Friendly Grizzly in reply to bobtuba. | December 7, 2019 at 9:31 am

      Stating facts is not “racist” in a world with common sense. You racist!

As anyone with two working neurons can see, the military has a magor problem with it’s vetting prosses for forign nationals training alongside U.S. Forces. I will not blame the serving members for these failures, rather the political hacks at the Pentigon and in Congress. For decades the military has been subserviant to the whims of the State Department. This has cost the lives of many good service men and women.

Pelosi’s President, President Obama says no terrorism here. Move along.

You’d think we’d keep a closer eye on Saudi nationals learning to fly over the last 18 years or so……..

(Caveat: We don’t yet know who he shot, except the responding law enforcement/security forces.)

All these brave warriors who wear the wings, they come through here for flight training.

And are kept disarmed while doing so. Kind of a dick move, that.

    puhiawa in reply to tom_swift. | December 6, 2019 at 6:55 pm

    It is an Air Force base. No arms to begin with. Only marines and army were formerly armed. Why Trump has not rescinded that order is beyond me. He should let the base commander decide, always making sure that certain personnel specifically could open carry.

      txvet2 in reply to puhiawa. | December 6, 2019 at 8:43 pm

      “”It is an Air Force base.””

      Never been there, but I was under the impression that Pensacola Naval Air Station was under the Navy.

        puhiawa in reply to txvet2. | December 7, 2019 at 1:16 am

        OK. Likewise. Navy and Air usually do not have armed people outside of security and defense. Marines and army used to have weapons ready until Clinton. Bush was a wimp.

          NO military base has casually armed people wandering about. ALL of them are gun-free zones. SO NO ONE is carrying except security/police.

          (BTW, turns out the guy in Pearl Harbor was pulling security [around a nuke sub] and there WAS armed.)

          therefore WAS armed
          FIFM

      txvet2 in reply to puhiawa. | December 6, 2019 at 8:46 pm

      “”It is an Air Force base.””

      Never been there, but I was under the impression that Pensacola Naval Air Station was under the Navy. As far as AFB’s are concerned, I know that the BX at Randolph sells guns, so not all are “gun free” zones.

        txvet2 in reply to txvet2. | December 7, 2019 at 12:00 am

        I don’t know how I did that.

        The Packetman in reply to txvet2. | December 7, 2019 at 8:21 am

        It’s been a long time since I served but the last time I checked, carrying service weapons on base is a command decision … not a policy one.

        GWB in reply to txvet2. | December 7, 2019 at 9:56 am

        No, the base is still a gun-free zone. ALL of them. IF you can still buy firearms in a base exchange, I guarantee there is an arrangement to send it directly to the armory, or to pre-qualify the weapon to be stored in base housing. But, no matter what, it is NOT allowed to be carried about base.

        (Some of the exchanges are not quite “on base” – that is, within the perimeter fence – and might have laxer policies.)

      Yeah. It’s a navy Base. I grew up in Pensacola and my father was a civilian worker there after WWII.

      It was originally an Army Base, but the Navy took it over to train pilots for the war.

        Mac45 in reply to DCP. | December 7, 2019 at 11:47 am

        Pensacola NAS was never an Army base, even during the Confederate period. It was originally commissioned as the Pensacola Naval Shipyard in 1821. It transitioned to a NAS in the early 1900’s. Fort Barrancas was an old Spanish Fort which was reconditioned by the US Army and active until 1947. It is adjacent to the NAS, but was never part of it.

    The Friendly Grizzly in reply to tom_swift. | December 7, 2019 at 9:32 am

    If they were armed, someone might get hurt.

Good thing they don’t allow guns on base.

    ronk in reply to Anchovy. | December 6, 2019 at 4:28 pm

    the ultimate gun free zone, sort of an oxymoron. didn’t use to be that way, needs to go back to the way it was

    TX-rifraph in reply to Anchovy. | December 6, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    Since “gun control” is actually people control, it is inevitable that the good guys will be unarmed and the bad guys will have the guns. The only question is whether this an unintended consequence or an intended consequence.

I, for one, am damn sick of the continuing misbehavior by the Saudis. I read that King Salman of Saudi Arabia called President Donald Trump to express his condolences over the attack. Condolences, my a–!

Trump needs to extract some serious redress against “the kingdom” for this one. Three Americans killed, eight Americans wounded. B.S.! If Salman doesn’t do something meaningful, pull the damn plug.

Make the Saudis DO something or cut them off. They need us way more than we need them. They’re just like all the rest: taking advantage of those stupid Americans.

The days of “Thank you sir, may I have another.” are behind (HEH)us.

    JusticeDelivered in reply to tiger66. | December 6, 2019 at 7:17 pm

    It was my opinion that immediately after 9-11 that we should have nuked half a dozen high population density Muslim cities, and made it clear that there were plenty more nukes available.

    I think that neutron weapons might be best, thou I read that those devices had been retired. The beauty of neutron devices is that they leave the real estate in good condition, while killing all the varmints.

…and Gabriel Romero, the submariner in Hawaii was not from Saudi Arabia. Nor were the drivers of the USS McCain or USS Fitzgerald back in 2017.

There is something wrong in our military and has been at least since the military has become a social justice program. Will the military look into these problems or will the politically correct DC/Academia culture continue to degrade our nation?

    **There is something wrong in our military and has been at least since the military has become a social justice program.***

    This is it, and after eight years of the Obama reign there are many, many flag officers who are nothing more than politically correct lickspittles. As the saying goes, “A fish rots from the head.” It is going to take a lot of time and effort to clean house, just as it has with the courts. This is why the D’Rats are so frantic to get rid of Trump.

      JusticeDelivered in reply to CDR D. | December 6, 2019 at 8:48 pm

      We need to drive a stake through the heart of Affirmative Action, and start judging everyone based on merit. If they do not measure up well, they should be broomed.

      snopercod in reply to CDR D. | December 7, 2019 at 7:18 am

      The Secretary of the Navy is out. That’s a start.

      The Friendly Grizzly in reply to CDR D. | December 7, 2019 at 9:36 am

      It was a social justice program when I was in, 77 to 81, and had been before that. Many things can be laid upon the backs of the Clintons and Obamas, but making our military a place for the otherwise unemployable is not one of them.

One issue we have in our military is that after obama went through it with an order to remove any negative references to islam or muslims that just about wiped out any references to our present enemies in the world. He made it clear that NO profiling of muslims was to be allowed and no negative references were ever to be made about them or their religion (?). Hell, a white Christian, ex-priest male would be looked at harder than a muslim rookie.

How did he get the gun past security? Muslim gate guards? Or did he acquire the gun on-base, inside the security cordon?

    bobtuba in reply to randian. | December 6, 2019 at 7:26 pm

    That’s easy enough. There are as good as no searches at the gate and everyone can enter, as the National Museum of Naval Aviation is aboard NAS Pensacola, as is the Barrancas National Cemetery. It’s of course against the regulations, but “smuggling” a weapon through the gate is no problem whatsoever.

    david7134 in reply to randian. | December 6, 2019 at 7:33 pm

    I have entered a number of based and once d is established you can just drive through. Immediately after 9/11 I had to give a talk and was very closely examined, but the airmen ascertained I was a doctor and they could wave me on if I had some percocet. I said keep on looking. Then I was to meet some friends on base to shoot skeet. I told the guard that was my purpose for entering the base and he asked me if I had a gun. I said I had a shotgun and he kept asking till I said I did not have a gun.

    This base is one of the biggest in terms of nuclear weapons.

For what it’s worth my two cents from the perspective of someone who spent 16 months as an advisor with an Iraqi army infantry battalion.

First, Insha Allah means the cultural/colloquially equivalent to ‘Lord willing’. As in the southern U.S. expression ‘Lord willing and the creeks don’t rise’. So the phrase itself isn’t much different than our own. That said, they view Christians as a ‘people of the book’s; one who follow what we call the Old Testament. However, because we do not follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad we are fair game to be lied to and deceived.

IMO the Arab culture in general is very fatalistic and my personal view is that arises more from the obvious issues of desert life than Islam itself. The folks are far more devout than we are at least outwardly. What Islam has avoided is a reformation phase to try and square the circle of religious tensions between sects, with modernity and scientific evidence. We haven’t done a perfect job of that task either.

Islamic national students. So, that’s a problem. We basically rely upon the Nation of origin to vet with minimal follow-up. Mostly this works out. As to the teaching and learning, the folks are not stupid by any means. They are heavily influenced by the culture the sprang from. The more upper class the more resistant to change and resistant to authority. Most of our Iraqi soldiers in Ramadi were farm boys from rural areas. The Iraqi officer class is more educated and cosmopolitan but only when compared to other Iraqis. In fact the Iraqis as a whole are looked at by the rest of the Arab world as poor relatives from the country.

I can’t imagine the kind of issues that the Saudis bring to a classroom. They are kind of the Arab elite and getting them to recognize superior information and expertise from an instructor would be interesting to watch.

Base security, guys that’s kind of a joke. As long as you have credentials you pass through the gate with almost zero possibility of a search. We ain’t going to search every vehicle and we are not going to search every vehicle containing a non-U.S. trainee. You can shout for that till you go horse but it ain’t happening.

Firearms on base. Personally as long as the Service member or DoD civilian has passed a basic state level carry class and leaves it in their vehicle I am all for it. I would add that maybe arming the CQ and staff duty personal would provide a viable deterrent and a more rapid response time before the MP get on scene.

    randian in reply to CommoChief. | December 6, 2019 at 9:33 pm

    Inshallah infects Islamic culture in a way that “Lord willing” doesn’t. Inshallah is the ultimate in fatalism. A Christian doesn’t stop maintaining their airplane because of “Lord willing”. If foreigners didn’t maintain the equipment the Saudi military would be DOA, because they are notoriously lax at doing weapons and vehicle maintenance. Because of inshallah.

    The upper classes are more resistant to change and authority (at least the non-Muslim kind) because they’re more educated in Islam than the peasantry. Islam forbids a non-Muslim from having authority over a Muslim. A Muslim can’t work for a Copt in Egypt, for example, and in any case infidels are lower than the dirt beneath your feet, so what do they have to teach you?

    You may have noticed that top Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood brass often have expensive medical or engineering educations. Universities in Muslim-majority countries have mandatory Islam and Quran classes. That’s why they’re terrorists, they don’t get the whitewashed hippy version of Islam propagandists peddle in Europe and the US.

      CommoChief in reply to randian. | December 7, 2019 at 11:37 am

      Radiant,

      I base my opinion on the colloquial use of Insha Allah off the 47 months I spent in Muslim nations, particularly the 16 months I spent living with and fighting alongside an Iraqi light infantry battalion. That is how the Iraqis used the phrase. They had no problems performing vehicle and weapon maintenance provided they actually received materials through the supply chain. That is another huge issue, but a tribal/cultural issue not a religious one. The guy running the depot with the boots only has power as long as he keeps the boots. So he issues boots to his tribe and holds onto the rest awaiting bribes before he issues the rest.

      Iraqi culture is nuclear family vs cousins; extended family vs tribe; tribe vs nation, nation vs Arab neighbor states, Arab world vs everyone else. That is oversimplified but still accurate view.

      From my indirect understanding of Saudi’s the issue with maintenance is that the act of performing maintenance is beneath them. Very analogous to 18th century British officer class who purchased commissions in the army to the rank of LTC without regard to ability or merit. English gentleman were ‘natural soldiers’ who didn’t require training. I think the Saudis have a class problem related to maintenance not a religious one.

      Having said that, obviously the Madrassa system and the placating of the Wahabi elements by the Saudis government is an issue that’s biting them as well. I would simply urge you not to create an Islamic boogie man. There are Muslims who preach and practice hate and terror. The majority do not. So by all means we should vet and use profiling similar to what the Israeli government effectively uses instead of the feel good TSA. Just don’t try and lump all Muslims in one category while ignoring the large cultural differences between groups, nations and tribes.

The products of public school education- or Muslims – cannot be trusted with weapons of any kind.

That said: hold into yours as if your freedom depended on it: crazy women politicans and their corrupt beta male bitches are coming for them.

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