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What We Know About the Santa Fe High School Shooting

What We Know About the Santa Fe High School Shooting

10 dead, more wounded

In Santa Fe, Texas, just southeast of Houston, a community is mourning the loss of 10 innocent lives (at the latest count). At least one gunman opened fire at Sante Fe High School.

Two teenage men have been detained:

Explosive devices have been located on and off campus.

Harris County Sherrif Ed Gonzales briefed reporters:

From local ABC news:

At least one gunman opened fire at a Santa Fe High School killing eight to 10 people, most of them students, authorities said. Now possible explosive devices have been located both at the school, and at a site off campus. Anyone who sees anything suspicious is urged to call 911.

Law enforcement sources tell ABC13 that 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis was the gunman in the deadly shooting.

…Witnesses say the shooting took place in an art class on campus between 7:30 and 7:45 a.m. Students were evacuated from the building, and backpacks were searched before they were transported to Alamo Gym at 13306 Highway 6 to be reunited with their parents.

“We thought it was a fire drill at first but really, the teacher said, ‘Start running,'” student Leila Butler said.

President Trump issued a statement:

Texas Senators Cornyn and Cruz and Texas Governor Abbott give a press conference:

We will update this post as more information becomes available. Everything listed above is the most up to date information available at the time this post was published.

We are praying for everyone impacted by today’s senseless tragedy.


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And calls for more gun control (without any real facts known yet) in 3,2,1…

    We know it was a high school in an ‘innovative’ school district and most parents have no idea just how behavioral science-oriented innovation in learning is. Highly manipulative and like Broward County, it is a school district pushing what is known as Transformational Outcomes Based Education. Like Newtown, Columbine, James Holmes’ high school in San Diego, Paducah. When the point of the ed template of achievement becomes largely about neural rewiring, it can drive murderous rage aginst the place where it all occurred. is six years old and written before federal law thoroughly pushed this template. It’s why, I believe, these school shootings will become more frequent until we understand what standards-based reforms in K-12 are really about. Precisely what is being transformed and why.

    It’s why I wrote the book Credentialed to Destroy: How and Why Education Became a Weapon. It’s more relevant now than ever. Everyone needs to appreciate why Tranzi OBE is so dangerous and is now ubiquitous.

    YellowGrifterInChief in reply to OldLawman. | May 18, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    And defensiveness (without any real facts known yet) No need for a countdown since you have already display the reactionary response.

      healthguyfsu in reply to YellowGrifterInChief. | May 18, 2018 at 4:02 pm

      You’re nothing if not predictable.

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 18, 2018 at 7:00 pm

        Just as predictable as the shootings.

          So … you can predict that one of America’s 130,000 pre-college schools—nearly all of which are defenseless “gun-free” “free-fire” zones, thanks to Liberal madness—will suffer some sort of shooting atrocity, leaving a mere 129,999 which won’t.

          Well, treat yourself to a pat on the back for your perspicacity.

          Gee, Tom, I wonder why these shooters don’t target . . . oh, I don’t know, gun shows or anywhere that citizens can legally carry? Let’s think . . . .

          Sadly, these anti-Second Amendment loons have made less safe a lot of venues where permitted carry was once legal. You used to know going to a state or county fair, local festival, or other such event that pretty much everyone there was carrying. Nowadays, even in the gun-friendly South and Southwest, there are gun restrictions in place at pretty much all such events. It makes a girl feel less safe to know the only person with a gun will be the maniac mass murderer out to shoot as many unarmed people as he can. Funny how he’s the only one who ignores the signs saying “No firearms past this point.”

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to YellowGrifterInChief. | May 19, 2018 at 11:19 am

          I guess the school uniform must include a bullet-resistant vest and a combat helmet. The art teacher could have bee, but wasn’t strapped.

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to YellowGrifterInChief. | May 19, 2018 at 12:48 pm

          @Fuzzy Slippers

          Sometimes they do. As an editor, one would think you might check your facts. As an ideologue you don’t even try. Do you think I care that you mock me? No. I care that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

          From one extremely cursory search: Shoppers pulled guns in response to Thornton Walmart shooting, but police say that slowed investigation.

          I was actually looking for the case where an armed bystander said he didn’t fire because he didn’t want to hit a bystander. So he pulled his gun, but hid.

          Besides, your point was that gunman wouldn’t even try. Perhaps a Timothy McVeigh (a known commie) clone will visit a gun show near you. You will certainly have my thoughts and prayers – but that is all (aka nothing).

        Anonamom in reply to healthguyfsu. | May 19, 2018 at 11:03 am

        Pardon me, healthguyfsu, but I think that you misspelled “stupid.”

      Halcyon Daze in reply to YellowGrifterInChief. | May 18, 2018 at 6:30 pm

      Are you secretly Tom Perez or Keith Ellison?
      Why are all your posts dumbass bullshit?
      Does you mother still tie your shoelaces?
      Have you ever gone outdoors?
      Do you know what a woman is?

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Halcyon Daze. | May 18, 2018 at 7:22 pm

        Why are truth and honesty such hard concepts for you?

        Why do you need to resort to ad hominem attacks?

        Why do you need to deflect?

        Do you intend to go through all your life without admitting that you were ever wrong and then expect forgiveness?

          You have NEVER, not once admitted that you were wrong. NOT ONCE. So this coming from you is rich. Don’t even get me started on your honesty. You ARE the problem. You are a sickening propagandist and your only goal is the same as the school shooters, destruction.

          I don’t know why you come here other than to feed your masochist fantasies, but truly you aren’t helpful and you are not welcome.

          YellowGrifterInChief, I see a pattern in your posts. It reminds me of someone else that use to post here.

    MarkSmith in reply to OldLawman. | May 18, 2018 at 5:10 pm

    I link it to Common Core. Teaching kids that 7+8 = 15 is 7+ 3 = 10, 8-3 = 5 then 10+5 = 15 would drive anyone crazy.

      It is linked to the Common Core when the Common Core is properly understood. It’s also why Texas did not need to be a part of the CCSSI–Common Core State Standards Initiative in 2009. They had already implemented those types of learning standards in what was called the New Standards Project in the 1990s. Only about 26 states participated in NSP and CCSSI got the rest of them.

      Learning standards are designed to change how and what the mind perceives and how it interprets experiences. The concepts and categories of thought are provided by the standards and hide out with synonyms like Enduring Understandings or Thinking like a Historian or Scientist. They use subject content to change how the mind works, instead of being about the transmission of knowledge. It gets at the student’s belief and value system and thinks nothing of using what are called Guiding Fictions if they motivate desired behaviors. It also uses what are called Threshold Concepts to get at new ways of imagining the world.

      Tranzi OBE is a very dangerous technique to have as a widespread requirement that is not commonly understood.

    notamemberofanyorganizedpolicital in reply to OldLawman. | May 18, 2018 at 5:16 pm

    How long before we discover that the murderer was a card-carrying member of the Democrat Party??????

Guy is a serious progressive headcase, from the LGBT to the Satanic to the Communist to the “born to kill.” I’d be surprised if he hadn’t shot up a school.

No AR-15, no conservative beliefs, no NRA membership. I don’t expect a lot of excitement from the drive-by media on this.

    YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Immolate. | May 19, 2018 at 11:36 am

    Mr. Pagourtzis posted artwork seemingly inspired by the electronic musician James Kent, professionally known as Perturbator. Mr. Kent’s music — largely instrumental — has been adopted by affiliates of neo-Nazi groups and the alt-right.

As if a “sawed off shotgun” without a Federal transfer stamp isn’t already a felony. His purported FB page is very Nihilist. I want to know about the second detained person.
And both person’s immigration history.
And any connections to the “Promise” programs

    assemblerhead in reply to jhn1. | May 18, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    Good questions that need to be answered.

    tom_swift in reply to jhn1. | May 18, 2018 at 11:43 pm

    As commonly used, the phrase “sawed-off shotgun” is meaningless. Casual witnesses (and the police, and the courts, and all sorts of people who should know better) refer to any shotgun which they think looks a bit on the short side as “sawed-off” whether or not it’s ever been touched by a saw. And even if true, sawing a barrel down doesn’t make a gun illegal. That depends entirely on exactly how much barrel is left after the sawing operation.

Don’t make these crazies famous! Some of them want to outdo the previous shooters, and the media gives them what they want. Speak of them only in generic terms, no name, no photos. I’m in Ohio, knowing the perps name or seeing his image has no news value except maybe to the locals. I know, this would take discipline for the media, but it is doable.

Bless all the victims, and their loved ones, wrap your arms around the survivors.

    tom_swift in reply to Romey. | May 18, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    this would take discipline for the media, but it is doable.

    Media is not interested in minimizing such incidents. That’s why they all not only fetishize, but absolutely worship Colombine, and never miss a chance to hype an anniversary.

    They’re not journalists, or even reporters. I wouldn’t even call them activists. They’re vampires.

Boiled to the essence: gunman was a lefty.

I’m all in favor of waiting 72 hours before characterizing the shooter. First impression, probably safe, is he was an outcast.

Very few school shooters from the ranks of popular kids.

I wonder if he had been bullied in his past. I also wonder about why the Art class? Of course plotting the course a mentally unbalanced person takes is difficult, while reports will run rampant and Hogg will take up air time again as the media only has one desire.

It is horrible for the families of those who were at the school, and especially horrific for those families who lost loved ones through this.

I expect to hear at some point that the shooter was on some kind of drugs for mental issues. Even if it is months later to blur the issue and point to a common point with these shooters.

I read an article that society tends toward incivility and anger and even rage in 50 year cycles. I’m not sure if that is valid, and of course in the article it blamed the rage for Trump being elected. There is no doubt that people have become hate filled, just look around and you see it in almost every aspect of life. This level of hate burns those doing it to ash, but not before terrible damage has been done to our society.

Let’s hope the speculation of that 50 cycle of rage and hate isn’t valid, for things will get worse still before scorched earth burns itself out.

Two teenage men have been detained:

But in Chicago the gun violence is committed by 19-21 year old children….

Answering oldgoat36- yes, he was bullied. One of the things is good for after anything like this is quick and dirty (and usually accurate) information:

    alaskabob in reply to gospace. | May 18, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    Since the father likes Dana, there is the link to the NRA… finally a “degree of separation” of three (or two), but close enough for the press especially CNN and MS(13)NBC.

      Liz in reply to alaskabob. | May 18, 2018 at 6:57 pm

      But – how many of us were rebellious in our teenage years and took up views opposite to our parents? Don’t you hear reports of conservative parents with liberal kids and vice versa?

      To me, the fact that the Dad liked Dana and had guns does not mean that the child follows in liking NRA and conservative views.

        alaskabob in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 9:22 pm

        I was trying to guess what the press would jump on as they flail around for some angle to attack.

LEO on Mark Levin radio says weapons involved were a shotgun and a revolver. Both illegal possessed (perp stole them from his father).

    YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Fen. | May 18, 2018 at 7:11 pm

    One would think that people who take guns so seriously would do something to stop 300K – 600K guns from being stolen every year. You proclaim your 2nd Amendment rights and then use negligence as an excuse not to be responsible for the damage.

    He stole them

    Nothing to see here. Move on. Quick, look over there – a guy protesting. What a jerk. It’s a good thing we believe in ‘Right to Life’. God will forgive.

    When are you going to start using Common Sense?

      Yellow: “Common Sense”

      Oh, you mean like passing a law making it illegal to steal?

      Or maybe making murder illegal?

      I got it! We will make it a felony for criminals to ignore federal law!

      Gods you’re dull.

        You beat me to it, Fen. For some reason, the lobotomized left doesn’t get the concept that criminals commit crimes and do wrong things. Like violate gun laws, steal weapons, and murder people. All of which are already illegal, as you note. But yeah, they insist, that one more law will sort it all out.

        Their witless cluelessness would be annoying if it weren’t so pathetically reflective of a complete lack of critical thinking skills and of a dismal and embarrassing deficiency in ability to apply even the most basic common sense.

          Dimsdale in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 19, 2018 at 11:34 am

          Or the old liberal playbook tactic of passing law after law, each more onerous than the last, but not enforcing them as justification of the increased “illegality” until the laws have reached the level of oppression they deem suitable, THEN they enforce them.

          Conservatives should apply that concept to immigration laws…

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 19, 2018 at 11:43 am

          Strawman argument. That is your forte.

          She didn’t need to set up the strawman, because you are the strawman. I think she has described you to a tee.

      Do you mean the American Progress report for 3 years?

      One suggested law is to report stolen guns or else… so? The surest reason to report is to avoid complicity but it is also to make it easier for lawfare against gun owners. Civil law equivalent of total liability. Make ownership so onerous as to not be worth it.. and also to then claim only the “rich” can own them and create class warfare.

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to alaskabob. | May 18, 2018 at 9:03 pm

        Look, your chosen government is going to obstruct everything. So why bother with all the BS rhetoric?

        Just say: ‘Sheet is going to happen. Our thoughts and prayers go to the victims. Let’s move on.’ At least that would be honest.

          And we see the evil and we know that there is very little that any of us can do. So yes thoughts and prayers.

          The sick part about you YellowTroll is that you have yet to mention the shooting in Illinois you know the one that killed 10 children … ohhhh wait no it didn’t the kid didn’t kill anyone because an armed resource officer stopped him.

          You and your fucktard gun control buddies know damn well that evil happens and all the laws and rules in the world won’t stop evil. But you keep insisting that more control by non-evil people like yourself will stop evil from happening. You are sick and you lie to hurt people you use their fear and pain as a weapon to gain more power for yourself. You are no better than the school shooters.

      You ignorant commie grifter. As though any of you progs had a lick of “common sense”.

      In your commie comment department, sense of any kind doesn’t exist. Your kind are directly responsible for the murder of 100+ million, which is why you wish to disarm us. Not going to happen, no matter how many dead body’s you dance upon.

      There were 765,484 motor vehicles stolen in 2016. What’s your point?

      When are you going to start using Common Sense?

      Common sense says you lock up people who steal things. When they’re locked up, they can’t steal anything. Problem solved, albeit at a cost—jails, which of course we already have.

      The idea that everyone else should not have anything that a criminal might want to steal isn’t common sense, it’s madness.

    iconotastic in reply to Fen. | May 18, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    There was a claim that the shotgun was ‘sawed off” but I wonder if it was simply an 18″ barrel pump action. Ignorant media folks (and some ignorant PD) might think this was illegally shortened. Otherwise this monster had the time to saw a barrel off.

I agree that news sites should refuse to identify the shooter. If a woman can accuse a man of assault and remains anon while the man is named with picture displayed, then the media can also agree not to disclose the shooter’s name/gender and make it a “J. Doe”. All the important info can still be disclosed by law enforcement re motive, associations, beliefs, etc.

Could the Professor start the trend in the conservative blogs?

    Shane in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    Liz, I agreed with this thinking at first, but the monetary gain to name is too great to stop. I think that a better solution is what happened in Illinois, shooter was stopped. Do you know his name or what he looks like, yah me either. That truly is what I think will make this come out of the news.

We have been told that the guns are the parents – why did they not have a gun safe and keep the combo/key away from a minor child?

The town is small with only 7-10 police officers. I thought that TX allows school districts to have school officials armed. In OK, the armed school officer bill was passed. The larger school districts have passed on arming admin & teachers, but I’ve heard that the smaller and rural districts have let their staff be trained. They just don’t have enough police officers to cover all of the schools and the towns. So, why didn’t this district allow staff to be armed?

    alaskabob in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    Except there are more incidences where the minor was able to defend self/family in break in…

    If we go that route, we need to be sure everything is handle that way.. car keys, medicines, chemicals….

      YellowGrifterInChief in reply to alaskabob. | May 18, 2018 at 9:11 pm

      We can’t fix anything unless we fix everything? Is that really your credo? I thought Alaskans had to be pragmatic or they would die.

        Considering the Democrat Party has embraced the divinity of MS-13, and looked away from the risk, costs and damage of illegal immigration to fuel future Democrat Party voters on the way to a one party country…. yes sheet is happening as you say.

        I have no confidence in structuring society so lives are of no consequence stripped down to sheeple under a benevolent technocracy.

        I have no confidence in people who think a rocket launcher attachment, bayonet lug and barrel shroud ban is important. I have no confidence in those that use ignorance as their tool to gain what they want even when they failed before for the same reason. I have no confidence in those that erode moral values creating the toxic environment that demeans life. I am tired of blaming the people who are accountable for their actions and blaming them for those not held accountable for their actions and even promoted to have a lack of accountability.

        I have no confidence in the same politics that brought the “Promise” program and juggling of discipline to achieve a fake view of society. Societal disorder is encouraged.

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to alaskabob. | May 18, 2018 at 10:50 pm

          Considering the Democrat Party has embraced the divinity of MS-13, and looked away from the risk, costs and damage of illegal immigration to fuel future Democrat Party voters on the way to a one party country

          That is a deflection and a flat out, unsubstantiated lie.

          Do you have even one foot in reality? The 1 party rule we have is Republicans and it seems that the more chaos they cause, the deeper they suck in people like you. Republicans control the Presidency, both Houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and around 30 states. Don’t blame Democrats if things aren’t working out.

          In case you failed to notice, the latest school shooting occurred in Blood Red Texas. Spin that any way you damn well please; and I am sure you will.

          If the level of discourse on this page is any indication of the thinking by conservatives in this country, we will not see America Great Again. Personally I am learning to speak Chinese and I suggest you do the same.

          alaskabob in reply to alaskabob. | May 19, 2018 at 12:00 am

          How one gets to that political dominance is either by choice or by buying power through largess. The choice is standing on one’s own feet or propped by from taxing another person work. The ultimate intersectionalism is individualism… which party promotes dependency and which individual achievement? Which Party is more concerned with the color of skin than character? Which Party warps reality to create social justice based on equality of outcome. Which is the party of quotas rather than quality?

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to alaskabob. | May 19, 2018 at 10:28 am

          You better quit drinking or start.

          YellowGrifterInChief in reply to alaskabob. | May 19, 2018 at 11:51 am

          Trump was chosen for his character? Please, even you can’t believe that.

      Shane in reply to alaskabob. | May 18, 2018 at 10:40 pm

      You can’t even fix yourself, but gawd damn you are going to fix everyone else, or die trying. Puhhhhlease. If you think you are fixing anything here you are as delusional as I think you are.

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Shane. | May 19, 2018 at 10:32 am

        Fix you? not a chance. Just want to disturb you with the truth.

          What you are spewing isn’t connected to any reality on this earth, so for you to think that you are saying anything remotely near the truth exposes the delusion that you live in.

          And I know your ilk you want me and everyone else to live in the same epistemological hell that you live in even it means at the point of a gun. Sorry I don’t think of that place as Utopia and I will resist your call to force to put me there.

    iconotastic in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    I didn’t keep my gun safe key protected from my family. My gun safe existed to protect my firearms (and other valuables) from other people. My son and daughter knew where one of the keys were hidden in case they needed to gain access to one of the firearms stored there.

    Because this monster stole firearms isn’t a good reason for me to mistrust my family. Demanding that I do so is more than a little totalitarian.

      Shane in reply to iconotastic. | May 18, 2018 at 10:42 pm

      But that is how totalitarians work. Pick a VERY outside hypothetical and then paint the population with it. Create mistrust with laws and spying, from neighbors teachers etc … a divided populace is weak … not strong.

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Shane. | May 19, 2018 at 12:08 pm

        It is not a hypothetical. Many of these atrocities are perpetrated with stolen guns.

        Here is a hypothetical. If for whatever reason you stopped trusting one of your family members, would you change the lock?

        That is not a reflection on you or your family. I often go sailing with a friend who is as trustworthy as they come. Since I have no need for my keys, wallet or money while sailing and could possible drop them in the water, I used to just leave them on his desk. One day he said that I needed to hide them because one of his children had started stealing. It happens even in the best of families.

          You never carried a wallet, money or keys when sailing? Where did you sail, in the duck-pond behind the house? Let’s say that you are sailing, as many do, on the ocean, miles from home. Your vessel sinks and you swim to shore. here you are with no money for food or a phone call and no wallet so that you can be identified if you are found unconscious. This is certainly good planning. It assumes that nothing bad will happen to you which may make possession of money or identification either desirable or, possibly, necessary.

          This is the same myopic mentality exhibited by many liberals. They assume that nothing bad will happen if they can only get rid of a few items. Of course, you remember the old saying about what assuming makes you and me.

          Human beings committed mass murder long before we had firearms. They committed atrocities long before we had effective edged weapons. What is the common denominator in all the murders and atrocities throughout history? That’s right, human beings. So, the only real way to stop these things from happening, by banning something, is to ban human beings.

          Now, back to the way-back machine. How have groups of human beings kept from being murdered or enslaved? That’s right, they emplaced active defenses and used the arms of the period to turn back invaders. Where such defenses were not in place, the people were overrun and enslaved and killed. Pretty simple.

          We put entry controls, searches and trained armed security people in many places; airports, seaports and bus terminals, courthouses, jails and prisons and even in some hospitals. Why would we refuse to do the same at a school? Do we want our children to be injured or killed by a wandering lunatic? Or, is it that we simply do not care if our children are killed while learning their ABCs?

          And this is why you are a pathetic millennial. No fall back, no personal safety, no ooh shit plan. Why because someone else has got your back, and when they don’t then there is always Uncle Sugar. You praise him as gawd and he makes everything alright, never mind those that were forced into helping you.

          You are so stereotypical progressive and childish, it’s sad.

    Ragspierre in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    From reports, there was an armed LEO resource officer who did engage the killer and is among the wounded.

      alaskabob in reply to Ragspierre. | May 18, 2018 at 10:18 pm

      I read that also. There will always be a gap from initiation to engagement…. but much smaller.

      It is interesting that the latest shooters aren’t into murder/suicide. Here there are the criminals to pour reconning on and all they are is a springboard for all things political. What is the news on Charlottesville, on Cruz?

    Sanddog in reply to Liz. | May 18, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    The kid was 17. A large percentage of 17 year old “kids” in my area already own their own long guns. When I was growing up, my family and the families of my friends all had firearms. They weren’t kept in gun safes. My Dad had his hunting rifles stored in the garage, unloaded. We didn’t play with them and the kids in my neighborhood didn’t play with their Father’s rifles. We were all taught from a very early age that they weren’t toy guns and were off limits to us. What’s the difference today? Maybe it’s time to look at the culture and the public school systems to see where we’ve gone off the rails.

      Anonamom in reply to Sanddog. | May 19, 2018 at 11:08 am

      “Maybe it’s time to look at the culture and the public school systems to see where we’ve gone off the rails.”

      Exactly right. But that route is incredibly difficult and is likely to yield answers that we don’t want to hear. So let’s just turn law-abiding citizens into criminals so that we can say that we “did something.” Sheesh.

        YellowGrifterInChief in reply to Anonamom. | May 19, 2018 at 12:19 pm

        You could go from law-abiding to responsible. That is part of what this culture has lost. So don’t put this on strictly on liberals. This whole article and the comment thread is about gun owners not wanting to be responsible.

        This article is about rationalization and about gun owners being unwilling to budge for the public good. Isn’t public good another of those cultural items we have lost?

        Sacrifice is another value in short supply. What would you sacrifice instead of the children?

          Responsible? Responsible for what, some asshole killing others? How is that the responsibility of gun owners? Or anyone for that matter including you? How are we all responsible for the reprehensible actions of a shitty evil fuck?

          This is the mantra of the Progressive, we are all responsible so we have to fix it. Everyone has to fix it. Everyone has to do what I say should be done because we are all responsible and it needs to be fixed.

          Truly YellowTroll, your thinking makes me sick.

          And this piece of puke … sacrifice. There is nothing I or anyone else could sacrifice that would bring those children back NOTHING. But you throw that word around because you want people to sacrifice, give and give until you have nothing left to give then sacrifice your arm to the common good and then the world will be better.

          I loathe you. I don’t have enough good words to describe my hatred of you and your lies, your package deals. I know what happens when people use the sacrifice and it usually ends in millions and millions of deaths.

          Take your shitty totalitarianism back to school. It isn’t wanted where there are adults.

“why did they not have a gun safe and keep the combo/key away from a minor child”

How do we know they weren’t locked up.

Anyone can be killed, even the President surrounded by America’s most highly trained security detail.

Any safe can be cracked, even the vaults at Fort Knox.

The UK is currently suffering a wave of knife murders.

And this shooter is reported to have built pipe bombs. What are we going to do, ban Home Depot?

“Good Morning, we’re with the Home Owners Association following up on last week’s inspection. You were to correct 2 violations. 1) you are not changing your gun safe password every 30 days and 2) your password must be at least 8 characters long and contain a consonant, a vowel, a grammatical sign, and at least 3 numbers who’s square root sun is less than or equal to 5.

Another school shooting at another school where there is no entry control, no metal detectors and no real armed security. Do you know where we do not see school shootings of this type? In schools where there are gang problems which require entry control, metal detectors and armed guards.

Historically, explosives, flammable liquids and motor vehicles have all been used to attack schools. In this case, this attacker also had explosive devices available. Now, we can outlaw firearms, explosives, motor vehicles, flammable materials, poison gases, and edged weapons. And, this will still not protect students inside a school. Why, because there is always another article or tool that can be used to inflict great bodily harm or death. It might be a baseball bat, tennis racket, hockey stick, a sharpened piece of steel or any of a hundred different dangerous chemical compounds, many of which can be concocted at home, or in the school science lab. What protects students in a school? Forewarning of a pending attack as well as a well trained and equipped force to protect the facility.

    alaskabob in reply to Mac45. | May 19, 2018 at 12:07 am

    Columbine was a failed bombing. If successful, the paradigm would have been bombs and not guns. If all guns disappeared, mass killings wouldn’t … as seen in major gun control regions… even the vaunted Australia where arson was and continues to be used.

    The spate of small scale bombings recently could .. Presto …change easily.

This is the product of the liberal (read it: Hollywood) glorification of gun violence and the infantilization of students in schools dominated by liberal thought.

It reaches its zenith in high school/college.

Henry Hawkins | May 19, 2018 at 3:40 pm

At any given moment there are about 14 million students in American public high schools, and several million more in private high schools. That is a huge ‘draw pile’ and a certain percentage are going to develop significant mental health issues. Just 1% of 17 million HS students makes for 170,000. 1% of *that* number produces 1,700 HS students who might have serious psychiatric problems, though the actual number is likely much higher (regulations guarding the identity of psych patients, especially juveniles, makes researching the actual number more difficult than I’m going to do for a single post). My point here is that with such big numbers you are going to have problems no matter what you do.

Factor in public school policies on mainstreaming students with problems, meaning whenever possible they are kept with the general population rather than segregated into specialist programs and classes (in vulgar terms, the ‘short bus’ kids). At risk, potentially dangerous students are left swimming with the sharks who bully them.

Factor in the Obama-era practice of minimizing arrests of juveniles, particularly minority students, who are unwittingly taught there will be no consequences for their bad behavior.

Factor in the ‘lone wolf’ effect, that there will always be kids who go off the deep end for no readily identifiable reason. With such a large draw pile, this number of students alone will be quite high.

Factor in that most of the thinking and worrying and planning will be conducted by school-associated psychologists. As a retired forensic psychologist of 30 years, let me assure you that the field of psychology is as screwed up as you suspect it is, a messy amalgam of untested or poorly tested hypotheses, conformity with political correctness and SWJ tropes as pressured by school boards and administrators, and worst, an inablity to simply admit “I don’t know what causes school shootings or how to prevent them.” Watch these ‘experts’ on cable TV – they all are absolutely certain of themselves.

When a call goes into 911 reporting a house fire, the responding fire department does not begin by trying to determine what caused the fire. First they put the fire out, and then investigate its cause at leisure.

I believe the solution to school shooting prevention is not a single action, but a multi-facted effort. But first you put out the fire, so to speak. First you bolster armed security within the schools. This has ended many school shootings before they started, and has in some cases minimized tghe number of deaths. Given all school shootings are ambush-style, the shooter has the initial advantage. Skilled, qualified, armed personnel in our schools can quickly reverse that advantage.

Second, you review all school policies that mainstream disturbed or historically violent students. Mainstreaming is intended to benefit the problem student, but it must be measured whether it comes at the risk of general population safety. Too many of the mainstreamed are easy targets for bullying.

Third, you augment the NRA’s already substantial efforts to educate gun owners on the proper storage of weapons within the home, especially if minors are present or visit the home. I taught my kids that if they ever saw an unsecured weapon out in the open while visiting a friend’s house, leave. Call me, I’ll come get you. I’ll make up a reason so you can save face (teenagers, right?), but leave. Gun safety not in use, so leave.

Fourth, I suspect a substantial number of parents, guardians, extended family, neighbors, friends, coaches, etc., etc., have witnessed things that made them wonder about the mental state of a given kid, but said or did nothing until it was too late. Similar to the domestic anti-terrorism call “if you see soemthing, say something” would prove useful, assuming it isn’t carried too far in the other direction.

My nearest neighbor is a nice guy, a liberal who likes to goodnaturedly rib me as a conservative, especially during the Obama years. He actually said the foolowing to me:

Neighbor: “We need to ban guns, all of them, not just assault rifles”

Me: “About 1.3 million people die in car accidents every year in America. Should we ban cars?”

Neighbor: “That’s crazy. Cars don’t cause accidents, bad drivers and bad weather conditions do.”

Me: “Say that again slowly. Do you realize what you’ve said?”

Neighbor: “Huh?

He didn’t get it, refused it upon my explanation that guns don’t kill people either, people do.

Fifth: Avoid feel-good bannings on this rifle, that handgun, that magazine, etc. They will change nothing and take the place of effective actions, delaying actual progress. Ex.: Chicago, DC, etc.

Sixth: Stop glorifying school shootings – and shooters – on TV. The potential for personal glory and fame adds motivation to some/many school shooters. The Santa Fe shooter avoided shooting students he liked so they could “tell my story” in the post-shooting follow up. Columbine’s round-the-clock media coverage iconized the wearing of trenchcoats, now a common feature among school shooters.

We also need to study the prevalence of HS age students on psychotropic medications and their effects on still forming brain functions.

As well, we need to study the prevalence of single parent homes among previous shooters, the prevalence of fatherless families.

To simply cry “ban the guns!” is short-sighted, ignores actual gun crime stats and data, preempts actual solutions, and is incredibly selfish because banning guns would have zero effect on school shootings, but would make the gun banners feel good.

Ultimately, given the number of HS students, you are going to have school schootings, or stabbings, or bombings, or arson, or poisonings, etc., no matter what we do.

I’m surprised there aren’t more school shootings.

One factor that no one has mentioned is the consolidation of our schools into mega-schools. I graduated from High School in a class of 12. I jokingly said that I could have dated every girl in my class in a week. Even in the ‘larger’ schools in our district, you might have just 500 attending High School. Now – schools have 3,500 students. I cannot help believing that this is also a factor.

    Shane in reply to 94Corvette. | May 19, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    When the government runs it, money is no object, until someone gets the tab and then there is a problem. The large schools are for cost savings. The money that the Hoggs of the world think is so evil when it is do with the NRA, but not so much when it comes to the government. When will they learn.