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Collusion: Never Trump Republicans coordinate electoral efforts with Democrats

Collusion: Never Trump Republicans coordinate electoral efforts with Democrats

It’s getting cozy over there…

Ken Vogel at The New York Times has revealed that #NeverTrump Republicans and Democrat operatives have sided with each other as a way to “neutralize” President Donald Trump. Vogel wrote:

In the past year, however, influential liberal donors and operatives have gone from cheering these so-called Never Trump Republicans to quietly working with — and even funding — them. Through invitation-only emails and private, off-the-record meetings, they have formed a loose network of cross-partisan alliances aimed at helping neutralize President Trump, and preventing others from capitalizing on weaknesses in the political system that they say he has exploited.

While this network has mostly eschewed electoral politics, some involved see the potential for it to help form an ideological — and possibly financial — platform to back candidates, including a centrist challenge to Mr. Trump in 2020, possibly from within the G.O.P. or even a third party.

The network — composed of overlapping groups led by Democrats such as the donor Rachel Pritzker and several veteran Obama administration operatives, as well as leading Never Trump Republicans like Evan McMullin, Mindy Finn and William Kristol — aims to chart a middle path between a Republican base falling in line behind Mr. Trump and a liberal resistance trying to pull the Democratic Party left.

Jerry Taylor, president of the moderate think-tank Niskanen Center and a Republican, said that if any Republican has concerns about Trump “there’s no reason you shouldn’t be willing to work with a Democrat who is equally concerned about these same matters.”

The Niskanen Center has meetings attended by the well-known #NeverTrump Republicans along with some Democrats like Ian Bassin, a lawyer who worked in Obama’s White House. Bassin founded Protect Democracy, a watchdog group, and “has sued the Trump administration and that has brought on staff members and advisers — including Mr. Taylor — from conservative or Republican backgrounds.”

Former Oklahoma Republican Rep. Mickey Edwards also attends the meetings and has joined those “cross-partisan coalitions” against Trump, “including working with the former Obama administration lawyers Neal Katyal and Joshua Geltzer to file a legal brief in March in a court case opposing Mr. Trump’s proposed restrictions on travel from predominantly Muslim countries.”

These donors and operatives from both sides have a group called Patriots and Pragmatists and they believe they’ll have their largest meeting in San Francisco soon:

The discussions at Patriots and Pragmatists meetings are intended to focus on big picture topics related to democracy, rather than elections or political funding. Nonetheless, some see the coalition as having the potential to bring the same kind of financial firepower to an anti-Trump centrist movement as the Democracy Alliance brought to the left. Its efforts were described by a dozen people familiar with the group, who spoke anonymously to describe private discussions.

The group has held three two-day gatherings outside San Francisco, New York and Washington, to which Ms. Pritzker and her political adviser invited 20 to 40 people per meeting. Gatherings have drawn influential Democratic operatives like Mr. Bassin and the Democracy Alliance founder Rob Stein. They have also attracted big-name Republican and conservative thinkers, writers and operatives including Mr. Taylor, the legal analyst Benjamin Wittes and the foreign policy hawks Mona Charen, David Frum, Robert Kagan, Mr. Kristol and Jennifer Rubin. Also attending were Mr. McMullin, who ran a long-shot independent conservative presidential campaign against Mr. Trump in 2016, and his running mate, Ms. Finn.

Big time donor William Budinger has gone over to Patriots and Pragmatists. He once sat on the board of Democracy Alliance “and representatives of deep-pocketed grant-writing foundations like Pierre Omidyar’s Democracy Fund and Democracy Fund Voice, and the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation’s Madison Initiative.”

Plus, groups founded by McMullin and Finn like Stand Up Republic and Stand Up Ideas “have received a total of as much as $1.3 million from the Democracy Fund groups and the Madison Initiative.” Protect Democracy and Protect Democracy Project (founded by Bassin) also received money up to $500K “from those grant-writing foundations.”

Here’s the thing. WHAT ON EARTH could these people have in common other than their hatred for Trump? Does it bother anyone that these supposed conservatives, who should hold ideas of limited government and fiscal responsibility, have sided with Democrats? You know, the party that booed God, has no problem with murdering unborn human beings, and wants the government involved in every detail of our life?

I don’t know how Democrats could stand the idea of their folk teaming up with Republicans either.

Yet, we shouldn’t brush them aside, especially Kristol and Rubin. They have loud and well-known voices. We also know that third-party runs can hamper an election. Ross Perot did it in 1992 and the Democrats claim that Ralph Nader swayed the election to Bush in 2000 and 2004.

Kristol told an audience at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics that “it would be important to have” a Republican primary challenger against Trump in 2020 “just to force the debate.” From CBS News:

Speaking to an audience at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics “Politics and Eggs” series – which is a must stop for potential presidential contenders – Kristol told the crowd Trump’s “a little more vulnerable that people think.”

Highlighting a new national poll by Morning Consult that suggested that 38 percent of Republicans would welcome a primary challenge to Trump in 2020, Kristol said it’s possible for GOP voters to say they approve of the president but “also maybe like to have a choice in 2020 that’s different from Trump.”

“Maybe we sort of pocket our gains in 2020 so to speak, and try to find somebody younger who can bring the country together and the country together,” he suggested.

Then again, Kristol said that former Ohio Governor John Kasich is “the most obvious candidate” since he did well in New Hampshire in 2016. He also brought up Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ).

Earlier this month, Cheri Jacobs, a Republican, penned an op-ed at USA Today to encourage the Democrat Party to capitalize on the Never Trumpers and move the party to the center.

Overall, though, these people either forget or don’t care why Trump won in 2016. At The Washington Examiner, Philip Klein wrote that “the problems are much deeper than Trump, and speak to the intellectual rot within the Republican Party.” The GOP controls the House and Senate (granted, only by one seat in the upper chamber), but that means a repeal of Obamacare should get to Trump’s desk and he would sign it. Klein also points out that the GOP lawmakers “have only shown a willingness to cut spending and tackle entitlements when a Democrat is president.” I’d add also when the Democrats control either one or both chambers of Congress.

Maybe concentrate on fixing your party?


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No one likes or trusts traitors. Looking at you harelip cruiseboat director Bill ‘Benedict Arnold’ Krystal.

Neutralize. That sounds so Stalinist.

    alaskabob in reply to dystopia. | May 25, 2018 at 3:56 pm

    We ARE talking about the Bolsheviks (Dems) and Mensheviks (GOPe) here (there are historical parallels). I don’t think storming the White House will end up well for them (I hope).

Does Evan McMullen really think he can be President? Not if he’s only on the ballot in one state. There must be something he gains by campaigning and getting one percent of the vote?

    Tom Servo in reply to Jackie. | May 25, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    I want to take Egg McMuffin seriously, and I understand that he so desperately wants to be seen as a “threat” to Trump – but every time I see a picture of him, like that one on the top of this post, I just start laughing.

    As for these others, one of the greatest benefits of the Age of Trump is that all of the players are taking their masks off and showing their True Faces. Now we see who they really are.

    (just today, formerly pro-Israel Max Boot is now attacking Israel and siding with the Palestinians, because his trump-hatred drives him to attack anything Trump supports. Including Israel)

NeverTrump means never having to admit you were wrong. Ever.

Vichy Republicans

“neutralize President Donald Trump” = neutralize the voters.

GOPe = Democrats

“Here’s the thing. WHAT ON EARTH could these people have in common other than their hatred for Trump? Does it bother anyone that these supposed conservatives, who should hold ideas of limited government and fiscal responsibility, have sided with Democrats? You know, the party that booed God, has no problem with murdering unborn human beings, and wants the government involved in every detail of our life?”

Well, there’s always that they’re bat$hit crazy, fundamentally dishonest, or both. Based on our crew, I’ll pick both.

    Stan25 in reply to SDN. | May 25, 2018 at 6:15 pm

    The only thing which united everyone in the Republican Party in Trump’s first 100 days was the nomination and confirmation of Neil Gorsuch for the seat on SCOTUS. Even then it was an uphill fight with the resistance of Chuckie Cheese and DiFi.

practicalconservative | May 25, 2018 at 4:39 pm

How can the word pragmatist appear in a Times article that mentions Bill Kristol, John Kasich and Jeff Flake? These are three men who ruined their careers and reputations in bizarre failed attempts sink President Trump.

JusticeDelivered | May 25, 2018 at 4:39 pm

Apparently those republicans do not understand that the only reason they are in power today is that we voted for Trump, not the party, just Trump.

rustypaladin | May 25, 2018 at 4:40 pm

Sheesh, these guys are as bad a Clinton. I voted for McMullen. He lost. I got over it. If he, or any of them, want to actually be a threat to Trump, instead of just being another place for unwise disgruntled rich people to dump money, maybe they should run for an elected position and get some real world experience. Right now, where some might see some slight hope of dislodging President Trump*, all I see a con game.

*Why? the Establishment let him flail for the first 100 days then moved in to help him. Since then, his policies have looked a lot like those advocated by Cruz or Rubio.

Isn’t that cozy … the D’rats, the GOPe, and probably the Russians … and what the hell, probably some of Soros’s bucks, too … all in one big happy conspiracy.

Well, knock me over with a clue-by-four.

But why is the NYT blowing the whistle on the Uniparty like this?

So not only do Never Trumpers refuse to accept the result of GOP primaries, not only do they refuse to accept the result of the legitimate election of President of the United States, they now make alliances with the Left to thwart the will of the people by handicaping our President.

A President who has given us a string of conservative victories the likes of which we haven’t seen since Ronald Reagan, over 39 years ago.

Worse, the Never Trump movement has allied with those who have betrayed the Rule of Law and weaponized the FBI and CIA to frame the President and falsely charge him with colluding with a foreign power in an effort to impeach and remove him from office.

I don’t want to hear another damn thing about their “principles”. A line has been crossed that threatens the very Republic. And NeverTrumpers are standing with those who would destroy it.

I do not believe the argument of NeverTrumpers, perhaps because I have failed to understand them, perhaps not. But that no longer matters.

What matters now is where the NeverTrump path has taken the movement. If you are Never Trumper, this is the moment you take a long hard look at who you are fighting beside. This is the moment you realize the train has gone of the tracks and you jump off and find your way back to us. You can endure 2 more years of Trump to save this Republic from the Establishment DeepState Coup.

The Republic or the Resistance. Choose, because you can no longer fight for both.

    OldNuc in reply to Fen. | May 25, 2018 at 5:57 pm

    My money is on they are not jumping off the #NeverTrump train. They have never actually supported the idea of a Federal Republic and the Rule of Law as they are actually closet Italian Fascists. The various flavors of Socialists will hang together to destroy a common enemy.

Over 30 years, not 39.

My fingers are HUGE, LOL 😉

It seems that if nothing else, the foreign influence forced establishment Republicans to collude with establishment Democrats of the Obama and Clinton orders to disenfranchise Americans.

I have begun to think that the tinfoil hat crowd might have a point. They have been saying for some time now that some of the hysterical anti-trumpers are motivated by their own open secrets involving civil or criminal liability. I’ve begun to wonder if it is not true, because most of the vilification of DJT is unfounded. The sheer over-the-top craziness of their accusations begs for some kind of explanation.

They try to push that they are standing on principles, yet I cannot see which principles they are standing on. I don’t like his philandering ways, but I didn’t hire him for his night life. I had long believed that a businessman of note would be possibly better at being President than a politician, and wealth would help quite a bit. The Clintons were a prime motivation in that thinking, as Bill had made decisions by polls, which made him popular. It didn’t make him right. Obama did similar, while also pushing socialist ideology, and fanning up racial tension for his push on white guilt. Clinton was a “B” actor. When he lied he had tells. Hillary is a better liar, but only because she rarely tells the truth. Obama is a smooth liar. Bush was a smart man who acted dumb to push his agenda, but caved when the elections went against him.

Are those the principles the NeverTrumpers stand for? Or is that acceptable to them? Democrats seem to think sex of any persuasion is fine, and as Bill proved, philandering is OK even in the WH.

Trump puts his messages out in tweets, it is the only way to get the message out to the people in a direct manner, other than a speech, and even in a speech they cut out and edit it to make it sound as if he said something else.

Trump is for tax cuts. Is for building a wall and making the border strong. Getting rid of Obamacare is another goal, which the Republicans seemed to favor till they had to actually do it.

If jeff sessions didn’t turn out to be the corrupt GOPe rat we feared he might be, none of this would be happening. In fact, this traitorous criminal would be in jail alongside weinstein:

Clinton declares ‘crisis in our democracy,’ as Harvard gives her a medal:

cjharrispretzer | May 25, 2018 at 7:44 pm

Pathetic. Weren’t NeverTrumpers originally standing on the notion that Trump couldn’t be trusted to actually be conservative? Nor effective? Well…they’ve been proven wrong! About as wrong as can be. Now that they can see Trump has been about as good a Republican President as we could’ve hoped for—better than lots of us thought he’d be. So there’s no argument against him now.

Subotai Bahadur | May 25, 2018 at 7:51 pm

One of the things that is possible in the political realignment that is coming out of the dropping of masks is that the Left could form a Party consisting of the Democrats and their GOPe allies seeking power by any means, and the Right could form a party supporting the Constitution. Say, the Deplorable Party.

Neocons were never conservatives. They always have been social liberals who want never-ending war as long as other people’s children and grandchildren are getting killed. Many became Republicans when the Democrats became anti-Israel.

Henry Hawkins | May 25, 2018 at 8:39 pm

It was a modern-era ‘silent majority’ that elected Trump over Clinton, that is, the strength of this bloc was grossly underestimated by all in 2016. While Clinton was the immediate calamity to avoid, this bloc had its eyes on eradicating what has become known as ‘the swamp’. There is nothing any NeverTrump/Democrat alliance can do to move them one inch, and I expect this effort to be every bit as successful as was the Coffee Party.

Does it bother anyone that these supposed conservatives, who should hold ideas of limited government and fiscal responsibility, have sided with Democrats?

Looking over these names again, I don’t see any I’d call “conservative” in any reasonable meaning of the word. The closest I’d go is “not strictly doctrinaire Leftist”, which is hardly the same thing. And I don’t think it bizarre that nominal Republicans who are “not strictly doctrinaire Leftist” would find common cause with nominal Democrats who are also “not strictly doctrinaire Leftist”. Forget the “R”s and “D”s; they’d be the Uniparty, one of those “big tents” both Parties periodically claim to be.

Kristol told the crowd Trump’s “a little more vulnerable that people think.”

Trump is in a far stronger position than he was in 2016. Back then, there were two reasons to vote for him—

1. He wasn’t Hillary; and

2. He made the right conservative-sounding noises.

(1) was the undeniable and overriding factor in 2016. Anyone who didn’t want a Queen Hillary had to vote for Trump; there was no alternative.

(2) was not so strong, because of the reasonable suspicion that after election Trump would tack left, no matter what he said during the campaign; they usually do.

Next time around, he still won’t be Hillary; but more importantly, we now know he’s not a closet Leftoid. As I have said before, President Trump is the best thing to happen to American Conservatism—no matter how one defines the word—in over a generation. We know that now; two years ago, we just hoped for it … while watching for Lucy to jerk the football yet again.

In future, there’ll be someone to vote for, rather than just someone to vote against. And I suspect that will be yuuge.

VaGentleman | May 26, 2018 at 8:44 am

It’s easy to see what the dems get from this alliance. What do the conservative NTs (CNTs) get? Most intraparty candidate v candidate fights end with the primary election. In 16, neither party’s ended, but the republican one became especially nasty. If the fight is existential enough and goes on long enough, ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ becomes almost an inevitability. But why here? What is the existential argument driving the CNTs crowd? Trump will be gone in no more than 6 yrs. In 2 yrs thay have a chance to replace him on the ballot. The argument that Hillary’s election was a greater existential threat to conservativism than Trump’s is easy to make – especially in light of his performance. What drives the CNTs to join the enemy camp? It’s said that humans are motivated by money, sex and power. Sex doesn’t seem to apply here. Is Trump a threat to their power and income? They all guessed wrong on the election. Are they looking for vindication? How would that work? How does bringing him down restore their power and glory? Do they believe that they can stand on the rubble they created and shout “See, we were right!”. That everyone would sing their praises and beg forgiveness. Perhaps. There’s another motivator we didn’t mention – ego. If you’re narcissistic enough, you just might believe…

    VaGentleman in reply to VaGentleman. | May 26, 2018 at 9:00 am


    Regardless of what happens, do they have any idea how complete and final their split is? Do they think they can just come back after this and all will be forginen / forgotten?

Never Trump and cuck GOPe are willing participants in the swamp. In exchange for playing their part as approved opposition when they were out of power they steered the country to the left with the democrats.

It was a dirty system run by anti-American globalists who would gladly wrap themselves in the flag and pretend to be American while stabbing actual Americans in the back. Now it’s laid bare the only people who still believe that the GOPe is different from the democrats are the idiots that watch CNN.

A sitting president with the help of every branch of the intelligence agencies and federal judges and foreign intelligence and money all conspired to steal an election, attempted a coup, are trying to frame and shackle our lawfully elected president and are trying to silence all opposition.

Anyone who doesn’t see it is willfully blind, as corrupt as the Deep State swamp or pig-ignorant.

Henry Hawkins | May 26, 2018 at 11:38 am

The MSM loves nothing better than a ‘reformed’ Republican, that is, a Republican, presumed conservative, that has slid over to the left. If they have any sizable public platform – columns, TV shows or appearances, current or former officeholder, etc. – the MSM will put them on a pedestal and publicize them endlessly as examples of how Republicans/conservatives *should* think and feel. Otherwise, you’d never hear of the Kristols, Frums, and what-have-you’s again.

Not surprising, but not benign or to be dismissed lightly. What is happening here is that the #NeverTrump crowd, at least those involved in this, has determined that Trump is more dangerous to our Republic than Socialist Democrats. As jaw-dropping as that is on its face (“I’ll take a commie over Trump any day!”), it’s not out of line with these same players cuddling up to “compassionate conservatism” and the various progressive GOP elements who align with their progressive counterparts on the left.

“Burning it all down” was never a good idea. Instead, we need to understand that though there are indeed progressives on the right who truly prefer the progressive left’s agenda, particularly on immigration and entitlements, we damage only ourselves by failing to identify and weed out these elements. We don’t need to burn it down, we need to get rid of any and all Republicans who support the progressive agenda. This was true in 2010, and it’s true now.

As to the pundit #NeverTrumpers like Kristol, what can you say? If you can look at what Trump has actually done in office and still think the party of Bernie, Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, and Warren is a better choice, you’ve lost your way. Kristol sold his soul to the SJW socialists; in what universe does a Bill Kristol associate with the dregs of humanity embodied in the likes of grasping wannabe Evan McMullin? In the “hey, my disgust for Trump is so great that I can align with higher taxes, free everything, open borders, socialized medicine, sanctuary cities/states, and pretty much everything I’ve spent my entire adult life fighting . . . because Trump” universe apparently. Kristol and his ilk are gone, far far gone and never to again be taken seriously by any conservative who has not likewise lost his or her principles, moral and ethical compass, and yes, his or her mind.

    Subotai Bahadur in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 26, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    Just as there is no legal way to enforce Federal law and the Constitution in areas controlled by the Democrats, and the lack of effort to do so confirms it; exactly how, legally, would one “weed out” those who are Democrat collaborators when they include most of the management [won’t describe them as leaders] of the Republican Party?

    Seriously, we have been operating outside the rule of law longer than before the 2016 campaign. Longer than before the 2008 campaign. Clausewitz is about to be proved right.

    One of the markers of a civil war is that a significant portion of the population effectively nullifies the laws and ruling paradigm [in our case, the Constitution] made under the previously existing social contract in areas they control. That pretty much describes the Clinton Archipelago. Back to Clausewitz.

    tom_swift in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 26, 2018 at 4:57 pm

    What is happening here is that the #NeverTrump crowd, at least those involved in this, has determined that Trump is more dangerous to our Republic than Socialist Democrats.

    That’s what it’s meant to look like, but as you say, it’s absurd. For two years now I’ve been reading the attacks on Candidate/President Trump, looking for some respectable content, but all I’ve learned is that … OohOohOoooh he’s a narcissist! OohOohOoooh he said pussy in a private conversation a decade ago! Yeah right, the Empire’s about to fall, fer sure. There’s nothing there. Dumb kids pulling fire alarms just to be cute. NeverTrumpLand is an intellectual desert.

    So, what’s the alternative? If they’re not genuinely terrified of a threat to the Republic, what are they afraid of? Probably, a threat to them. Now I don’t know what that threat might be; obviously enough, as I don’t know what crimes they’ve been up to. But they’re acting like their crimes are big ones, and very vulnerable to discovery by somebody who isn’t “one of them”.

    forksdad in reply to Fuzzy Slippers. | May 27, 2018 at 12:59 am

    That’s not enough. Once maybe but not now. The GOPe, the ‘conservative’ pundits, the media in general, all are part of the approved and in some cases controlled opposition.

    Before this is over its going to get a lot uglier. We see top republicans colluding with democrats, we see our FBI, CIA and allied intelligence agencies spying on Americans, apparently all of us all the time. The judiciary is so full of rot it’s really two branches, one that tries to follow their mandate and another that believes itself to be unelected black robed masters, (with everyone pretending they are the same as the first branch just trying to do their jobs).

    I have no idea how long we’ll keep kicking the cans down the road but one day we’ll miss one and the gods of the copybook headings will have their due.

The big threat Trump always posed to the nevertrumpers that claim they are “conservative” and have “character” was always twofold:

1. We would discover that they are not remotely conservative
2. Their money source dries up because – See #1

As I said before the election, Trump would win and be the most effective conservative president in 50 years. My prediction has been shown accurate and most now see it. However, the nevertrumpers, being deranged individuals, will always call Trump a “collectivist”, a narcissist, a fill-in -the-blank.

And we’ll continue to point and laugh at them. They’re not even smart enough to see it.

    Ragspierre in reply to Barry. | May 27, 2018 at 6:21 am

    Without any brief to defend nutters who are, in fact, “NeverTrump”, I’ll lay out a few things that run counter to your religious screed here.

    1. T-rump is NOT a “conservative” by any stretch.

    1a. T-rump has told us he’s not a “conservative”. Look it up.

    1b. T-rump has lived his entire life as a NE Progressive with rightist leanings (Progressivism is one branch of Collectism).

    2. T-rump isn’t “called” a narcissist; he’s the text-book definition of a pathological narcissist.

    3. T-rump is a pathological liar. This goes part-and-particle with 2 (above). He lies to protect his insecurities.

    4. T-rump is currently doing what he thinks will make him popular and provide him approval. That can change in an instant.

    5. T-rump pursues BIG GOVERNMENT solutions to mythical problems, contra what an actual conservative would be doing. Conservatives are rationalists. T-rump and his cult of personality are irrational romanticists.

    6. Much of the T-rumpian agenda and “thinking” is manifestly ANTI-conservative, anti-liberty, and outright dangerous. It is magnified by the fact that it appeals to the same voters who supported Obama, and the same ideas that Bernie Sanders espouses.

    7. “Conformation bias” provides an argument that SOME things done by, and pursued by, T-rump are swell. Some, in fact are swell (rightist things). It ALSO ignores what he’s done, and is pursuing, that are NOT good, right, or consistent with conservationism.

    8. The great body of conservatives have no pecuniary interest in anything, outside of the general interest in sound economics, which also extends to simple liberty.

      VaGentleman in reply to Ragspierre. | May 27, 2018 at 9:55 am

      1- every negative you ascribe to Trump also applies to HRC, and with even more emphasis.

      2- the results of the election prove that those who said it was DJT or HRC were correct.

      3- you have admitted that DJT has done good things for conservativism.

      4- you claim Conservatives are rationalists.

      Please make the rational argument for why conservatives should have defeated Trump, thereby electing Clinton. What would conservativism have gained by his defeat?

        Ragspierre in reply to VaGentleman. | May 27, 2018 at 10:16 am

        1. Yes, and there’s no need to distinguish how horrible is “disqualified”.

        2. Nobody said otherwise. Both were disqualified.

        3. Sure. Bill Clinton did some things “good for conservatism”.

        4. No. Conservatives ARE rationalists.

        No. Your trite bullshit has been answered about 1000 times.

        The conservative movement has been, is being, and will be damaged by identifying with Duh Donald. That’s not to say “working with” Duh Donald. Two VERY different things.

          VaGentleman in reply to Ragspierre. | May 28, 2018 at 5:08 am

          The objective qualifications for president are those spelled out in the constitution. Both DJT and HRC met those requirements and were fully qualified. Your ‘qualifications’ are are of importance only to you, making them subjective – they are your desires and are based on your values. Your ‘qualifications’ had no effect on the election. It was obvious before election day that one of them (HRC or DJT) was going to be elected. If you wanted the rest of us to join you in your crusade against DJT, you should have provided reasons why defeating him, thus allowing her to be elected, was the better choice for conservatives. You never did provide reasons. You never have provided reasons. (Despite 1000 opportunities to do so.) Your claim that both failed to meet your subjective qualifications doesn’t answer that question and is irrational because it ignores the realities that both were legally qualified, that one would be elected and that one was better for conservatives. Your argument for subjective disqualification is the argument made by the ‘irrational romanticists’ you claim to abhor – that only the pure are worthy of serving. In reality, not making a choice between them was the irrational action. Conservative #NT lost because they never had a rational alternative to his election. Their arguments were and are based on their hatred (emotions). The ‘irrational romanticists’ were and are the conservative #NTs.

          You claim the conservative movement being damaged? How? Do liberals hate us more? Are your principles so weak that you have surrendered them – mine aren’t. Is your conservative committment so weak that it’s damaged by anything less than a 100% conservative president? Mine isn’t. Precisely how does Trump’s presidency hurt conservatives? HRC was the alternative. Would her presidency have hurt conservativism – wait, comparing them as president is the question you keep avoiding, isn’t it? Yet, it’s the natural question to ask in the voting booth, isn’t it? Thank you for reminding us of its importance.

      Barry in reply to Ragspierre. | May 27, 2018 at 9:40 pm

      I never claimed Trump was a “conservative”. Since you claim to be one, it’s poisonous.

      I said what I said, he would be the most effective conservative president in 50 years, and he is without question.

      You, your just a fat hateful old POS that cannot admit he was wrong. You serve as an example of what not to be, the only redeeming quality you have.

        Ragspierre in reply to Barry. | May 27, 2018 at 10:35 pm

        You’re really quite mad, and you kinda admit it here.

        BTW, I’m not fat. Not like your Great Goad Cheeto is fat.

        And he can’t be “the most effective conservative president in” evah if he is the antithesis of a conservative, can he, nutter?

        He IS a NY Progressive with some…SOME…rightist leanings, and you know what I said is true. You’ve seen him change his message according to the whims of the crowd he’s dealing with. For some, it’s even claimed to be a talent…and I sort of agree. It certainly belies that there is a “core” in the man, except the essential narcissism.

        Watch and see…

          Yep, we’re all on tenterhooks awaiting the great Trump commie shift. Funny, though, that it seems to be self-proclaimed #NeverTrumpers like Bill Kristol cozying up to proud progressives like McMullin and the Democrats. Let’s think, what are Democrats shilling these days? Oh, yeah, open borders, sweeping amnesty, free everything, reparations, and higher taxes.

          So let’s think. Trump has a shifty background as a progressive nutter but has been, since becoming president, nothing but conservative in his actual actions. Democrats, on the other hand, are looping arms and skipping the commie folk dance. Kristol and his ilk are aligning with whom? Oh, right, the commie folk dance crowd.

          But yeah, Trump is the real threat to our Republic–he’s just pretending to enact policy that flies in the face of the commie loons. He’s the threat, after all, not the commie loons who have repeatedly stated they want to repeal the Second Amendment, “revise and restrict” the First, and impose their will on every single American.

          Kristol and his traitorous #NeverTrump horde are aligning with people who vocally advocate the end of America as we know it, but yeah, let’s focus on that nasty, evil, collectivist Trump who will, one day, probably soon, reveal himself to be . . . aligned with people who vocally advocate the end of America as we know it. Gotcha!

          Clear as mud.

          Rags, this post is about #NeverTrumpers latching onto Democrats while in the throes of their TDS. I was simply pointing out that they are aligning with commies rather than aligning with a president who has not shown (much) evidence of sharing their commie agenda. I am completely gob-smacked that someone like Kristol is cuddling up to Evan McMullin who is the skeeziest thing going, and that’s not even addressing Kristol’s new love of the Socialist Democrats.

          Your non sequitur spiel ignored the content of the post, so I pointed out what is going on. I expected your bile-filled response and frankly, your knee-jerk nastiness is a bit of a yawn these days, but whatever.

          I’m most intrigued by your bizarre claim that any LI author shares your opinion of the president. Me and Kemberlee were the only #NeverTrumpers here, and you know where I stand now (firmly and happily, even giddily, on the Trump train supping Trump wine and enjoying the show). I won’t speak for her, but I think it’s safe to say that you are nuts if you think she’s on your destructive, nutso crazy train.

          But Rags, where is your long long list of all the LI authors who share your view of President Trump? Wasn’t your point that you are right and that is proven by all the LI authors who think as you do? Can’t name one? No surprise . . . since there isn’t one.

          By the way, you may have been responding to Barry’s post in your own mind, but in the real world, you were ranting off in tangent-land, sputtering to yourself again. Maybe you should see someone about this tendency?

          As to the rest, so far my ticket on the Trump Train has cost me your fickle adoration that was apparently based in your imagining that I think as you do. That’s not even pennies, Rags.

          Rags, the thing about integrity that matters is that it cannot be touched by others. You can’t affect my integrity, and you can’t quantify or judge it.

          You seem to feel betrayed because I have moved from the #NeverTrump camp into the Trump camp. This may come as a surprise to you but you had nothing to do with my decision . . . as a result, your assessment has nothing to do with me. That’s all you.

          Yes, Rags, I was an avid #NeverTrumper before #NeverTrump was a thing, and I was adamantly opposed to his candidacy. I supported Ted Cruz up to the day he withdrew (or suspended his campaign, as is the latest terminology). No one who reads this site’s comments doesn’t know this.

          When the GOP nominee was Trump, I had two choices, vote for him or don’t vote and let Hillary win. I have loathed Hillary since the ’90’s, and there was no way in hell I would have even the remotest culpability in her becoming president. No. Way. In. Hell.

          On election day, Florida was too close for comfort, so I sucked it up and voted for Trump. I didn’t believe in him, and I didn’t like him (still don’t like him as a person, truth be told), but I knew in my heart of hearts that Hillary is walking evil and would be a disaster for our great country.

          I was a bit ashamed (I think I even came here to LI to confess voting for Trump, and doing so with much chagrin), but when the next president of these United States was going to be either Trump or Hillary, the choice, to me, was crystal clear.

          I can’t speak for the prof, but I do know one thing that anyone reading this blog knows: he was never #NeverTrump. Not for one day. He didn’t like or support Trump in the primaries, but he wasn’t crazy-eyed anti-Trump, either. That was me. I was all over #NeverTrump, I loathed Trump. Loathed. Him.

          If he were governing as I thought he would, I would be the most outspoken critic on the planet. But he’s not. In fact, he’s been a tonic, pushing to fulfill his campaign promises and standing firm against those on both sides of the aisle who would have him bend to their progressive agenda.

          In 2016, I voted against Hillary and had serious doubts about Trump. As it stands today, I will happily, joyously, enthusiastically, thankfully vote for President Trump in 2020. It will be the first time since 1984 that I’ve voted FOR a presidential candidate rather than against his opponent, and I can’t wait.

          Why? Because he doesn’t suck (and not just in the “he doesn’t suck as much as I thought he would” way; he flat-out doesn’t suck), he’s fulfilling his campaign promises, and he’s had a huge, positive impact on our nation’s economy.

          Have I “capitulated”? I am not sure what that even means. I have watched Trump like a hawk, and I just can’t complain about what he has done. There have been a couple of things that raised my hackles–his comment about taking guns first and going through due process later is the example that comes to mind, but it’s also an example of his getting that some proposal won’t work and quickly changing course. I like someone who is able to learn from current and relevant data and change course; it shows adaptability, maturity, and intellect.

          IF Trump hits the tyranny track or otherwise acts in ways that I was concerned about prior to the election; I’m all over it. But I will wait until that happens. So far it hasn’t, not even close. And there is no reason to think that it will.

          The “FACTS” you are hammering (in all caps, fgs) just don’t apply, Rags. I am aware of Trump’s past, and should he veer off course, I will not ignore it, but that has not happened. It. Has. Not. Happened.

          There is no benefit in bashing Trump for no real reason (i.e. an action taken). None. My integrity is in tact, Rags. Integrity’s a funny thing, it’s not bestowed upon one by or reliant on another person and cannot be taken away.

          Meanwhile, I’ll giggle a bit over some of your insults: “lied like a Clinton!” bwahaha! I didn’t lie at all, much less like a Clinton. It’s so fun to read your stuff, though, a girl needs a good giggle now and then.

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | May 29, 2018 at 9:58 am

          See, what’s funny here is that none of that matters to me in the least.

          I don’t care what your current accommodations are, or how you’ve managed to reconcile what you feel with the facts.

          And I wouldn’t know but for your loopy, bizarro attacks on me personally.

          When you attack me in your, lying, non-sequitur rants, you’ll find that I will counterattack with vigor.

          Like any vegan, you enjoy your choices. But keep them to yourself.

          My bad, Rags, when you pointed out that I was once a #NeverTrumper and had (essentially) sold out, I got this crazy idea that it does matter to you. Wow, what was I thinking?

          As to the rest: word soup much?

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | May 29, 2018 at 11:00 am

          “…I got this crazy idea that it does matter to you.”

          Yes. A LOT of your “ideas” lately are like that one…!!!

          “Wow, what was I thinking?”

          There’s no telling…!!!

          Changing your “mind” about Duh Donald is all fine and within your own conscience.

          Attacking ME for NOT changing my mind is morally bankrupt.

          You’re really getting the “T-rump train” thing down, honey.

          Rags, sigh. You are tiring. A LOT of people have changed their minds about Trump since he took office and based on his actions. Funny how actions speak louder than words, huh?

          I’m not attacking you for not changing your mind, Rags, I’m defending myself from your out-sized response to my changing my mind. To you, I’m all that is wrong with the world (unhinged, evil, a LIAR, insane, stupid, a moron, and on and on and on).

          I’m all these things because I support President Trump? Nah, I’m all these things because you are taking my support of our president personally. Instead of getting that it’s a logical, rational choice that I am free to make, you are feeling betrayed that someone you once liked and admired has left your camp. But the truth is that I didn’t leave you, Rags, you left me.

          I’m still a conservative, but you know who cannot wear that mantle?: #NeverTrumpers who have aligned with the party of Bernie, Warren, and Hillary. There is nothing conservative in aligning with today’s Socialist Democrat Party . . . even against Trump. Get in bed with commies, and you wake up with more than just fleas.

          What part of “I’m a conservative who supports and even votes for Socialist Democrats” makes sense to you?

          Ragspierre in reply to Ragspierre. | May 29, 2018 at 7:12 pm

          Crazy Slopper, you are lying again, first and foremost to yourself.

          You’ve been launching these weird attacks on me from out of nowhere for many weeks. They are ALWAYS predicated on bizarre lies and misrepresentations of what I’ve said. You’ve gone nutter, as I’ve been observing for as long as you’ve been making these crazy attacks from out of left field.

          As here, I don’t give a good shit about what you think about T=rump. Just STFU and leave me alone. Oh, and don’t lie about me or to me anymore.

          Rags, you are deluded and embracing your delusion with cringe-worthy gusto. I guess that gets points for participation. However, you are attacking me for supporting Trump even though I recognize his weaknesses. That’s totally cool. Go for it, you’ve been doing it since the election.

          You challenged me to write a post challenging LI authors who share your view. That’s impossible since there is no such person, but where are you in calling the prof, Kemberlee, or any other LI author an evil cultist? Oh, right, no where. Because for some reason, it is only I whose support for Trump rankles. Have you looked at that? Why is it okay for the prof and every other LI author to support the president but not me?

          I love that you want me to STFU just when we start getting to core of your issue. Somehow I am evil and a cultist but none of my colleagues are, and this holds true for you even after you learn that exactly no LI author is a #NeverTrumper. But it’s me, little old me, who is the traitor, the villain, the cultist evil voice of lying liars who lie.

          But yeah, at your request, I’ll leave you alone for the most part, Rags, because that’s where you’ve been all along and simply weren’t smart enough to see it.