You have it backwards. Liberals are high status; conservatives are low status. When a liberal attacks a conservative, it’s punching down. When a conservative attacks a liberal, that is punching up.
thalesofmiletus: You have it backwards. Liberals are high status; conservatives are low status. When a liberal attacks a conservative, it’s punching down. When a conservative attacks a liberal, that is punching up.
That’s strange. In the U.S. “conservatives” control the legislature and the presidency. When the “conservative” president punches at individual citizens, often explicitly threatening government action, he is clearly punching down.
And yet conservatives are mostly powerless to implement any policy that liberals disagree with, possessing a slim majority of the merely elected government and almost no share of the un-elected government. Also, remember that liberals can punch right (that is, downward) with zero consequence, both literally and figuratively, yet if and when conservatives respond in kind, they get the law and the media thrown at them as the last 12 months or so of street-fare had aptly demonstrated.
thalesofmiletus: And yet conservatives are mostly powerless to implement any policy that liberals disagree with, possessing a slim majority of the merely elected government and almost no share of the un-elected government.
That the president is constrained by the Constitution is a conservative principle. Nonetheless, the president has significant power to wield against individuals and corporations, certainly more than a largely unknown comedian. Not only are you making the preposterous contrary claim, but you are holding the comedian to a higher standard than the President of the United States.
Trump at Fiorina: “Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president.”
The topic of this sub-thread is bullying, in particular, the distinction between punching up and punching down. You claimed that liberals are high status; conservatives are low status, yet so-called conservatives control the organs of government, so can hardly be said to be in a position of disadvantage. In particular, a largely unknown comedian making jokes at the expense of the president or his spokesperson is hardly punching down.
thalesofmiletus: You clearly want to talk about something else.
Look at the media reaction, the industry with the unrivaled ability to determine “public opinion” — Wolf isn’t some lone voice in the wilderness speaking truth to power; when she punches down at Sanders, she does so with the full weight of the Cathedral behind her.
Meanwhile, be sure to let us know when Wolf is imprisoned, deported, audited or is otherwise victimized by all that alleged conservative power, LOL.
thalesofmiletus: Wolf isn’t some lone voice in the wilderness speaking truth to power
Wolf is not a journalist. She’s a largely unknown comedian who strongly criticized the press as well as lying by the Trump Administration.
thalesofmiletus: when she punches down at Sanders, she does so with the full weight of the Cathedral behind her.
Sanders is the spokesperson for the President, the most powerful person in the United States. The White House has more than an ample platform to respond.
Meanwhile, the President lies constantly, even when the truth will do, has announced that the press an “enemy of the American people”, and has called for individual citizens to be punished.
Punching is punching. “Up”, “Down”, doesn’t really matter.
Liberals, in an Orwellian fever, have (in thier own minds) redefined “Nazi” and “Fascist” to mean ” anyone I disagree with”. Which is why they’re OK with themselves going around using fascist methods and copying the Nazi technique of redefining opponents as “not really people, not like we, the superior ones, are”.
Once you’ve de-humanized your opponent/prey, any means necessary becomes logical (in your mind) and you can be a total bitch/bastard to others, and it totally doesn’t count (in your mind).
Congratulation, Antifa supporting Libs, you’ve recreated National Socialism 80 years later just by putting “Inter” in the front and pretending that evil means doesn’t count because you’re you.
Actually, in one of his books (I forget whether it’s in The Lucifer Principle or The Global Brain, sorry) Howard Bloom makes the case that bullies are conformity enforcers, and between Trump and the media, it’s strikingly obvious who the conformists are.
Bullying is bullying. Bad behavior is bad behavior.
Just as politeness and manners matter, rudeness and personal attacks matter.
You perhaps believe the lie that if you belong to a less favored “class” of people, that gives you unlimited license to behave badly to others. People are Individual persons, not an entire class.
A minority person CAN be prejudiced against a non/other-minority.
A person lower on a totem pole CAN be unfair to someone “higher up”.
And status level is not entirely fixed, it’s situational as well.
You obviously believe a reporter is “punching up” when they personally attack, say, president Trump.
I doubt you believed the same when the president’s name started with an “O”.
Personal attacks can sting regardless of the status levels of attacker/target or the truth of the matter.
Liberal press and comedians obviously believe this or they wouldn’t take so much obvious malicious pleasure in harping on the size of Trump’s hands, for just one example.
If I called the governor of NY a bigot/Nazi/Fascist/homophobe/whatever, how does “punching up” or “down” matter compared to fairness or truthfulness?
Granted, Trump is just déclassé enuf that when he gets insulted by our self-appointed betters, he hits right back at them, politeness in response to rudeness be damned.
You want more Trump? Or any Trump at all?
It was at a previous WHCA dinner that Trump attended as a major donor to attending politicians that multiple speakers decided it would be hilarious to treat Trump as a roast target – he had boasted that he could run for President better than the current crop of crap – and jump on how much of an idiot he was to think that he, HE, could aspire to the office like he was as good as THEM or something.
Funny how that worked out for them, huh?
Not surprising he treats the Correspondents Dinner since as a crapfest of hostility.
Again, who is or is not of superior “status” is often situational. The press (and the press’s stalking horse here) HAS power over a target when they are a captive target constrained to sit and at worst grimace at rude snide “jokes”. Don Rickles was the master of insult humor, and utterly capable of doing it without coming across as a total bastard, this person, not so much.
“Oh, I imply Donald Trump has a small penis, haha”.
“Oh, every thing this lady sitting here says is a lie, haha”.
“Oh, see that person eating his/her dinner, he/she is a nazi, haha”.
Sarah is hated by the press because whenever they ask a leasing question with the “correct” answer already implied by the phrasing, she throws the “when did you stop beating your wife?” Right back in the askers smarmy face. In a press conference don’t believe for a NY minute that the press pool reporters DON’T have situational high status, and that they are “punching down” when they think they can get away with it. Just as the speaker here had the upper hand status when she had the mike and decided rude, hostile, and insulting was going to be her mode here.
BobM: Again, who is or is not of superior “status” is often situational. The press (and the press’s stalking horse here) HAS power over a target when they are a captive target constrained to sit and at worst grimace at rude snide “jokes”.
By tradition, the President has the opportunity to roast the hosts. He chose not to.
BobM: Sarah is hated by the press …
Actually, many in the pool press like Sanders personally, but object to her constantly lying for her lying boss.
The hatred/dislike between the DC press and Trump is both deep and visceral. In a traditional “roast”, the jokes while sometimes pointed aren’t anywhere near the hostility the press corps holds twords the guy they see as the buffoon who for no reason they can comprehend prevented their Chosen One from winning.
They were hostile and cruel when he had merely claimed he MIGHT run, and would be a better candidate than any of the usual suspects up for the race. Now that he’s shown them up by turning the joke back on them, their dismay and enmity knows no bounds.
In that situation, it’s hard to see any upside for Trump – or any Trump ally – to voluntarily submitt to a roast where none of the “jokes” against them would be “good-natured”, and responding in kind would only result in more slander as the double standards of the Anti-Trumpers kick in.
BobM: The hatred/dislike between the DC press and Trump is both deep and visceral.
You seem to have abandoned your position that Trump is in the inferior position, and doesn’t have a reasonable platform from which to respond. Frankly, Trump is a lying bully who can’t take what he dishes out.
I actually really like Sarah. I think she’s very resourceful. But she burns facts and then she uses that ash to create a perfect smoky eye. Like, maybe she’s born with it, maybe it’s lies. It’s probably lies.
Nothing in there about Sanders’ eyeshadow being trashy. Rather, it’s a joke about her lies.
It’s a play on the old Maybelline make-up commercials, “Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.” That no one seems to have made that connection is probably good for Maybelline.
And it is probably good for the GOP candidates at the next election as those not paying attention were made aware just how far into the sewer seems normal for the Dems now.
Deflecting to one joke that wasn’t as bad as the others may be a wise tactic to help older liberal women with pussy hats cope with the losers they’ve now hooked up with….but it seems the best you can do is deflect to a joke that smears professional women about “smokey eyes” or aka “bedroom eyes”. Not working and only calling attention to the other jokes that are pretty bad.
The boat’s sinking – bail before you become a bigger embarrassment to your kids and grandkids.
Mike Pence. “He thinks abortion is murder. Which, first of all, don’t knock it ’til you try it – and when you do try it, really knock it. You know, you’ve really got to get that baby out of there. And yeah, sure, you can groan all you want. I know a lot of you are very anti-abortion. You know, unless it’s the one you got for your secret mistress.”
Bucky Barkingham: You say that Spicer lied and because he was Trump’s spokesman therefore Trump lied? So guilt by association?
Spicer wasn’t just “associated” with Trump, but was his official spokesperson. There is ample evidence that Spicer’s lies were at the direction of Trump. We cited an extensive list of Trump’s lies. He lies even when the truth would do.
I think Michelle Wolf’s performance was all about her new show on Netflix. She was determined to make a name for herself. She just didn’t care which name.
Interesting that the WHCA has not issued an apology to Sarah Sanders for the execrable performance of their chosen EmCee for their annual self-congratulatory bash. Also WHCA President Talev should be very sensitive to comments about weight or girth such as have been leveled against Sanders.
Comments
You have to admit, she looks right at home in the gutter.
With the trash.
Democrat Party Femi-Nazi Women ATTACKING real FREE WOMEN of America!
THAT SAYS IT ALL!
The Leftist, Progressive, Communist Democrat Party Media/MSM just keep digging it deeper.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/maddow%20-%20trumps%20taco%20bell%20receipt.jpg
Hatred destroys people. It makes them do irrational things, as we are seeing over and over. It certainly isn’t comedy that she does. It’s bullying.
Sewer rat is more like it.
oldgoat36: It’s bullying.
It’s called punching up. Punching down, like what Trump does, is bullying.
You have it backwards. Liberals are high status; conservatives are low status. When a liberal attacks a conservative, it’s punching down. When a conservative attacks a liberal, that is punching up.
thalesofmiletus: You have it backwards. Liberals are high status; conservatives are low status. When a liberal attacks a conservative, it’s punching down. When a conservative attacks a liberal, that is punching up.
That’s strange. In the U.S. “conservatives” control the legislature and the presidency. When the “conservative” president punches at individual citizens, often explicitly threatening government action, he is clearly punching down.
And yet conservatives are mostly powerless to implement any policy that liberals disagree with, possessing a slim majority of the merely elected government and almost no share of the un-elected government. Also, remember that liberals can punch right (that is, downward) with zero consequence, both literally and figuratively, yet if and when conservatives respond in kind, they get the law and the media thrown at them as the last 12 months or so of street-fare had aptly demonstrated.
thalesofmiletus: And yet conservatives are mostly powerless to implement any policy that liberals disagree with, possessing a slim majority of the merely elected government and almost no share of the un-elected government.
That the president is constrained by the Constitution is a conservative principle. Nonetheless, the president has significant power to wield against individuals and corporations, certainly more than a largely unknown comedian. Not only are you making the preposterous contrary claim, but you are holding the comedian to a higher standard than the President of the United States.
Trump at Fiorina: “Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president.”
[[[…but you are holding the comedian to a higher standard than the President of the United States.]]]
Nonsense. You clearly want to talk about something else. Got it.
thalesofmiletus: Nonsense.
The topic of this sub-thread is bullying, in particular, the distinction between punching up and punching down. You claimed that liberals are high status; conservatives are low status, yet so-called conservatives control the organs of government, so can hardly be said to be in a position of disadvantage. In particular, a largely unknown comedian making jokes at the expense of the president or his spokesperson is hardly punching down.
thalesofmiletus: You clearly want to talk about something else.
It’s your claim at issue.
Look at the media reaction, the industry with the unrivaled ability to determine “public opinion” — Wolf isn’t some lone voice in the wilderness speaking truth to power; when she punches down at Sanders, she does so with the full weight of the Cathedral behind her.
Meanwhile, be sure to let us know when Wolf is imprisoned, deported, audited or is otherwise victimized by all that alleged conservative power, LOL.
thalesofmiletus: Wolf isn’t some lone voice in the wilderness speaking truth to power
Wolf is not a journalist. She’s a largely unknown comedian who strongly criticized the press as well as lying by the Trump Administration.
thalesofmiletus: when she punches down at Sanders, she does so with the full weight of the Cathedral behind her.
Sanders is the spokesperson for the President, the most powerful person in the United States. The White House has more than an ample platform to respond.
Meanwhile, the President lies constantly, even when the truth will do, has announced that the press an “enemy of the American people”, and has called for individual citizens to be punished.
Punching is punching. “Up”, “Down”, doesn’t really matter.
Liberals, in an Orwellian fever, have (in thier own minds) redefined “Nazi” and “Fascist” to mean ” anyone I disagree with”. Which is why they’re OK with themselves going around using fascist methods and copying the Nazi technique of redefining opponents as “not really people, not like we, the superior ones, are”.
Once you’ve de-humanized your opponent/prey, any means necessary becomes logical (in your mind) and you can be a total bitch/bastard to others, and it totally doesn’t count (in your mind).
Congratulation, Antifa supporting Libs, you’ve recreated National Socialism 80 years later just by putting “Inter” in the front and pretending that evil means doesn’t count because you’re you.
BobM: Punching is punching. “Up”, “Down”, doesn’t really matter.
Of course it matters. Punching down is known as bullying, which is the topic of this sub-thread, as introduced by oldgoat36.
BobM: Liberals …
Gross overgeneralization.
Actually, in one of his books (I forget whether it’s in The Lucifer Principle or The Global Brain, sorry) Howard Bloom makes the case that bullies are conformity enforcers, and between Trump and the media, it’s strikingly obvious who the conformists are.
Bullying is bullying. Bad behavior is bad behavior.
Just as politeness and manners matter, rudeness and personal attacks matter.
You perhaps believe the lie that if you belong to a less favored “class” of people, that gives you unlimited license to behave badly to others. People are Individual persons, not an entire class.
A minority person CAN be prejudiced against a non/other-minority.
A person lower on a totem pole CAN be unfair to someone “higher up”.
And status level is not entirely fixed, it’s situational as well.
You obviously believe a reporter is “punching up” when they personally attack, say, president Trump.
I doubt you believed the same when the president’s name started with an “O”.
Personal attacks can sting regardless of the status levels of attacker/target or the truth of the matter.
Liberal press and comedians obviously believe this or they wouldn’t take so much obvious malicious pleasure in harping on the size of Trump’s hands, for just one example.
If I called the governor of NY a bigot/Nazi/Fascist/homophobe/whatever, how does “punching up” or “down” matter compared to fairness or truthfulness?
Granted, Trump is just déclassé enuf that when he gets insulted by our self-appointed betters, he hits right back at them, politeness in response to rudeness be damned.
You want more Trump? Or any Trump at all?
It was at a previous WHCA dinner that Trump attended as a major donor to attending politicians that multiple speakers decided it would be hilarious to treat Trump as a roast target – he had boasted that he could run for President better than the current crop of crap – and jump on how much of an idiot he was to think that he, HE, could aspire to the office like he was as good as THEM or something.
Funny how that worked out for them, huh?
Not surprising he treats the Correspondents Dinner since as a crapfest of hostility.
BobM: Bullying is bullying.
bully: a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.
BobM: You obviously believe a reporter is “punching up” when they personally attack, say, president Trump.
Wolf is not a journalist, and she roasted the press as well as the president.
Again, who is or is not of superior “status” is often situational. The press (and the press’s stalking horse here) HAS power over a target when they are a captive target constrained to sit and at worst grimace at rude snide “jokes”. Don Rickles was the master of insult humor, and utterly capable of doing it without coming across as a total bastard, this person, not so much.
“Oh, I imply Donald Trump has a small penis, haha”.
“Oh, every thing this lady sitting here says is a lie, haha”.
“Oh, see that person eating his/her dinner, he/she is a nazi, haha”.
Sarah is hated by the press because whenever they ask a leasing question with the “correct” answer already implied by the phrasing, she throws the “when did you stop beating your wife?” Right back in the askers smarmy face. In a press conference don’t believe for a NY minute that the press pool reporters DON’T have situational high status, and that they are “punching down” when they think they can get away with it. Just as the speaker here had the upper hand status when she had the mike and decided rude, hostile, and insulting was going to be her mode here.
BobM: Again, who is or is not of superior “status” is often situational. The press (and the press’s stalking horse here) HAS power over a target when they are a captive target constrained to sit and at worst grimace at rude snide “jokes”.
By tradition, the President has the opportunity to roast the hosts. He chose not to.
BobM: Sarah is hated by the press …
Actually, many in the pool press like Sanders personally, but object to her constantly lying for her lying boss.
The hatred/dislike between the DC press and Trump is both deep and visceral. In a traditional “roast”, the jokes while sometimes pointed aren’t anywhere near the hostility the press corps holds twords the guy they see as the buffoon who for no reason they can comprehend prevented their Chosen One from winning.
They were hostile and cruel when he had merely claimed he MIGHT run, and would be a better candidate than any of the usual suspects up for the race. Now that he’s shown them up by turning the joke back on them, their dismay and enmity knows no bounds.
In that situation, it’s hard to see any upside for Trump – or any Trump ally – to voluntarily submitt to a roast where none of the “jokes” against them would be “good-natured”, and responding in kind would only result in more slander as the double standards of the Anti-Trumpers kick in.
BobM: The hatred/dislike between the DC press and Trump is both deep and visceral.
You seem to have abandoned your position that Trump is in the inferior position, and doesn’t have a reasonable platform from which to respond. Frankly, Trump is a lying bully who can’t take what he dishes out.
Nothing in there about Sanders’ eyeshadow being trashy. Rather, it’s a joke about her lies.
Oh gee thanks. Maybe you can explain away some of the other jokes for us too. #LiberalsHaveBecomeTrailerTrash
One wouldn’t think it was necessary, but it might explain the dearth of conservative comedians.
It’s a play on the old Maybelline make-up commercials, “Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.” That no one seems to have made that connection is probably good for Maybelline.
“Maybe it’s Maybelline“
And it is probably good for the GOP candidates at the next election as those not paying attention were made aware just how far into the sewer seems normal for the Dems now.
Deflecting to one joke that wasn’t as bad as the others may be a wise tactic to help older liberal women with pussy hats cope with the losers they’ve now hooked up with….but it seems the best you can do is deflect to a joke that smears professional women about “smokey eyes” or aka “bedroom eyes”. Not working and only calling attention to the other jokes that are pretty bad.
The boat’s sinking – bail before you become a bigger embarrassment to your kids and grandkids.
elle: but it seems the best you can do is deflect to a joke that smears professional women about “smokey eyes” or aka “bedroom eyes”
Smokey eyes is standard makeup.
elle: Not working and only calling attention to the other jokes that are pretty bad.
It’s okay to say the joke wasn’t funny, but it’s not okay to misrepresent the joke as denigrating Sanders’ looks. It was about her lies.
I didn’t get this one. Can you explain it for me?
Mike Pence. “He thinks abortion is murder. Which, first of all, don’t knock it ’til you try it – and when you do try it, really knock it. You know, you’ve really got to get that baby out of there. And yeah, sure, you can groan all you want. I know a lot of you are very anti-abortion. You know, unless it’s the one you got for your secret mistress.”
elle: I didn’t get this one. Can you explain it for me?
The first part is simply in bad taste. The latter part is a dig at hypocrites in the pro-life movement.
yeah. Poor taste. But keep it up. I appreciate you exposing how low you are willing to go. #LiberalsHaveBecomeTrash
I took “trailer” out of trailertrash because the left has moved into the gutter.
elle: I appreciate you exposing how low you are willing to go.
How so?
Misrepresenting what was said, as in the original post, is never appropriate.
Yeah. Hypocrites. Good point.
So many big names on the left are not finding Wolf funny gives us the idea that some small amount of self-preservation many have woken.
Jokes about abortion? Filthy language and use of the F word?
You can dress a bunch of liberals up in evening gowns and tuxedos but you can’t give them class.
Well, the Republicans have Trump as their exemplar of class. Do you need a list of his punching down or lies?
Trump at Fiorina: “Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president.”
Spicer for Trump: “That was the largest audience to witness an inauguration, period.”
Let me guess- you’ve cut and paste those comments into 20-30 conservative outlets today.
Let me understand this. You say that Spicer lied and because he was Trump’s spokesman therefore Trump lied? So guilt by association?
Also you wrote “lies” but yet you cite only one second hand “lie”.
Bucky Barkingham: You say that Spicer lied and because he was Trump’s spokesman therefore Trump lied? So guilt by association?
Spicer wasn’t just “associated” with Trump, but was his official spokesperson. There is ample evidence that Spicer’s lies were at the direction of Trump. We cited an extensive list of Trump’s lies. He lies even when the truth would do.
RE: “You can dress a bunch of liberals up in evening gowns and tuxedos but you can’t give them class.”
…..AND THEY’RE STILL FASCIST LOVING PIGS! SNARK!
Michelle Wolf is almost as funny as Kathy Griffin. Let’s see if her ‘humor’ helps her career as much as it did Kathy’s.
I think Michelle Wolf’s performance was all about her new show on Netflix. She was determined to make a name for herself. She just didn’t care which name.
Boy…If Ms Wolf was using this gig as an advertisement for her Net-flicks show, you’d think she would’ve been better prepared and have better material!
She had to read most of the jokes from a script…she mumbled and stumbled over the punch lines…
Jokes have to be crafted and worked on…the set-ups were lame and the punch lines were Lamer!!!
It was like Ms Wolf wrote her “set” on the way to the dinner.
Interesting that the WHCA has not issued an apology to Sarah Sanders for the execrable performance of their chosen EmCee for their annual self-congratulatory bash. Also WHCA President Talev should be very sensitive to comments about weight or girth such as have been leveled against Sanders.
Someone posted this on another thread.
“Reporters Slam White House Correspondents’ Dinner As ….
‘Gift’ To Trump Admin”
http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/29/reporters-slam-white-house-correspondents-dinner/
It hard to slut-shame sluts.